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00:00:09 <Eoin> well 00:00:14 <Eoin> No one in scotland likes the tories 00:00:25 <OwenS> Yeah, they only got one seat 00:00:27 <Eddi|zuHause> Eoin: i thought they got one seat 00:00:34 <Eoin> they did 00:00:36 <Eoin> lol 00:00:41 <Eoin> not one seat changed in scotland 00:00:41 *** last_evolution [~last_evol@r5ba58.net.upc.cz] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:00:44 <Eoin> we are all like "change" 00:00:47 <Eoin> aye, maybe tommorow 00:00:50 <Eddi|zuHause> that means at least in one section, a "majority" likes them ;) 00:00:59 <Eoin> but its south scotland 00:01:04 <Eoin> nearer you get to england 00:01:08 <Eoin> more they tories are loved 00:01:17 <Eoin> tories came fourth in my seat 00:01:23 <Eoin> labour > snp > lib dem > tories 00:01:35 <Eoin> and other half of city was 00:01:41 <Eoin> snp > labour > lib dem > tories 00:03:00 <OwenS> Mine was Lab >> Con >> LD (held); south was Con > Lab > LD (By .5%!), East was LD >> Lab > Con, with a 21.8% to LD swing 00:10:42 *** KritiK [~Maxim@95-24-120-84.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:13:48 *** KenjiE20 [~KenjiE20@92.10.83.181] has quit [Quit: ãããã¿ãªãã] 00:20:24 *** OwenS [~oshepherd@cpc1-stkn14-2-0-cust562.11-2.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:28:04 *** ptr_ [~peter@c213-89-142-224.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Quit: Zzzzzz] 00:31:48 *** Fixer [~uzver@91.202.128.79] has left #openttd [] 00:36:03 *** Fuco [~dota.keys@188.123.106.105] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 00:42:04 *** lugo [~lugo@mgdb-4db8c9e7.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:57:47 <orudge> Eoin: see, if we had PR though, the Tories would have half a dozen or so seats in Scotland 00:58:01 <orudge> there are certainly quite a few Tory supporters, just not quite as many as there are Labour and SNP :p 00:58:08 <orudge> anywy 00:58:12 <orudge> TV times 01:04:57 <Eddi|zuHause> that's the drawback of pure proportional sytem, it does not properly recognise locally founded parties 01:05:37 *** ajmiles [~aj@78-86-188-187.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:21:53 <Eoin> PR for all partys but tories ukip and bnp 01:21:53 <Eoin> :D 01:33:59 *** Devroush [~dennis@ip-83-134-159-196.dsl.scarlet.be] has quit [] 01:48:01 *** Jhs [~Jhs4@ti0068a380-2979.bb.online.no] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:00:23 *** ecke [~ecke@188.75.128.2] has quit [Quit: ecke] 02:29:25 *** Vornicus [~vorn@adsl-76-248-146-244.dsl.wlfrct.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:44:44 *** glx [glx@2a01:e35:2f59:c7c0:108b:3cdc:6574:729e] has quit [Quit: bye] 02:51:10 <ccfreak2k> <Knifa> no one in scotland 02:51:10 <ccfreak2k> <Knifa> voted for conservatives 02:51:10 <ccfreak2k> <Knifa> but they still got the most votes somehow. 03:07:59 *** luddek [~ludde@h-92-160.A189.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [Quit: luddek] 03:16:44 *** Wizzleby [~wizzleby@pool-108-2-23-141.phlapa.east.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:29:18 *** Wizzleby [~wizzleby@pool-108-2-19-56.phlapa.east.verizon.net] has joined #openttd 03:35:15 *** Wizzleby [~wizzleby@pool-108-2-19-56.phlapa.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:37:35 *** Wizzleby [~wizzleby@pool-108-2-19-56.phlapa.east.verizon.net] has joined #openttd 03:45:53 *** Lakie [~Lakie@91.84.251.149] has quit [Quit: sleep.] 04:16:13 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~Administr@89.246.180.232] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:21:34 *** devilsadvocate [~devilsadv@202.3.77.231] has quit [Excess Flood] 04:22:02 *** devilsadvocate [~devilsadv@202.3.77.231] has joined #openttd 04:33:56 *** FiCE [~anonymous@c122-107-157-71.eburwd5.vic.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:56:04 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B7677E.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [] 04:56:32 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B77BAD.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 05:28:57 <dihedral> morning 05:31:26 <DDR_> Good morning, dihedral. 05:56:25 *** Kurimus [Kurimus@dsl-tkubrasgw1-fe32dc00-253.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #openttd 05:58:02 *** a1270 [~Cheese@72-24-233-98.cpe.cableone.net] has joined #openttd 06:09:22 *** devilsadvocate [~devilsadv@202.3.77.231] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 06:09:47 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B77BAD.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:10:07 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B77BAD.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 06:22:30 *** a1270 [~Cheese@72-24-233-98.cpe.cableone.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:27:15 *** a1270 [~Cheese@72-24-233-98.cpe.cableone.net] has joined #openttd 06:31:03 *** JVassie [~James@nelocat2.gotadsl.co.uk] has joined #openttd 06:35:09 *** arkenklo [arkenklo@titan.blinkenshell.org] has joined #openttd 06:36:04 <arkenklo> hey, yeah, sorry for storming in and being an ass, I've looked everywhere and haven't found an answer. How do you open up the "local authority" window? 06:36:11 *** arkenklo is now known as Arkenklo 06:44:41 <blathijs> Arkenklo: IIRC you need to click a town's name 06:45:39 <Arkenklo> aha, the name 06:45:45 *** devilsadvocate [~devilsadv@202.3.77.203] has joined #openttd 06:51:53 *** einKarl [~einKarl@95-89-121-65-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #openttd 07:05:40 *** pugi [~pugi@p4FCC77C1.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 07:14:19 *** KloBass1 [~hadameko@193.179.62.1] has joined #openttd 07:14:28 *** KloBass1 [~hadameko@193.179.62.1] has quit [] 07:15:00 *** Goulp [~Goulp@ip163.opsio.fr] has joined #openttd 07:42:00 <planetmaker> good morning 07:44:52 *** r0b0tb0y [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-41-16.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has joined #openttd 07:45:58 *** last_evolution [~last_evol@r5ba58.net.upc.cz] has joined #openttd 08:06:13 *** Cadde [~cadde@c83-249-114-48.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:06:52 *** Cadde [~cadde@c83-249-114-48.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #openttd 08:09:00 *** einKarl [~einKarl@95-89-121-65-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:13:18 *** devilsadvocate [~devilsadv@202.3.77.203] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 08:14:51 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1D5C3.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 08:21:45 *** ptr_ [~peter@c213-89-142-224.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #openttd 08:27:54 *** DDR_ [~chatzilla@d99-199-13-89.bchsia.telus.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 08:29:07 *** r0b0tb0y [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-41-16.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 08:33:20 *** r0b0tb0y [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-41-16.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has joined #openttd 09:00:30 <Terkhen> good morning 09:04:17 <planetmaker> moin Terkhen 09:04:50 *** lugo [~lugo@mgdb-4db8c3c4.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 09:09:53 *** TinoDidriksen [~TinoDidri@alpha.visl.sdu.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 09:11:43 *** TinoDidriksen [~TinoDidri@alpha.visl.sdu.dk] has joined #openttd 09:11:48 *** fonsinchen [~fonsinche@brln-4dbc186f.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 09:33:07 *** robotboy [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-41-16.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has joined #openttd 09:34:32 *** IPG [~chatzilla@daisu.martos.bme.hu] has joined #openttd 09:35:47 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: rubidium * r19776 /trunk/src/script/script_scanner.cpp: -Change: don't scan for tars in the script scanner; it has already happened. 09:37:29 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: rubidium * r19777 /trunk/src/ (fileio.cpp fileio_func.h network/network_content.cpp): -Change: use the file scanner to find the .tars 09:40:38 *** r0b0tb0y [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-41-16.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 09:42:48 *** robotboy [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-41-16.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 09:43:46 *** last_evolution [~last_evol@r5ba58.net.upc.cz] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 09:44:01 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: rubidium * r19778 /trunk/src/stdafx.h: -Change: use the value from PATH_MAX (POSIX) for MAX_PATH (Windows/OpenTTD) if it exists 09:47:44 *** Doorslammer [Doorslamme@119.11.17.230] has joined #openttd 09:49:25 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: rubidium * r19779 /trunk/src/ (fileio.cpp fileio_func.h): -Change: add a return type to AppendPathSeparator and use that to determine whether we could append the path separator. If not, do not recurse into that directory as the path would exceed the maximum path length 09:50:12 *** andythenorth [~andytheno@salieri.openttdcoop.org] has joined #openttd 09:51:02 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: rubidium * r19780 /trunk/src/os/unix/unix.cpp: -Fix [FS#3807]: make sure that when checking whether a path + filename are valid the whole string can be constructed within an array of length MAX_PATH. If not, the name is too long and is deemed invalid 09:52:23 *** lobster [~michielbi@86.89.201.189] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 10:05:49 *** OwenS [~oshepherd@cpc1-stkn14-2-0-cust562.11-2.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 10:09:00 <OwenS> Whoa, looks like I got my Eva Platinum tin box just in time. They're now at £100 :o 10:20:24 *** theholyduck [~holyduck@77.106.156.18] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:24:16 *** theholyduck [~holyduck@77.106.153.188] has joined #openttd 10:24:41 *** luddek [~ludde@h-92-160.A189.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #openttd 10:25:44 *** Chruker [~no@port113.ds1-vj.adsl.cybercity.dk] has joined #openttd 10:26:22 *** Fuco [~dota.keys@188.123.106.105] has joined #openttd 10:28:48 *** ecke [~ecke@188.75.128.2] has joined #openttd 10:31:40 *** robotboy [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-41-16.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has joined #openttd 10:40:22 *** KenjiE20 [~KenjiE20@92.10.83.181] has joined #openttd 10:48:10 *** Coco-Banana-Man [~Stephan.D@p5B2DBD24.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 10:49:44 *** ptr_ [~peter@c213-89-142-224.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 10:50:22 *** Westie is now known as Garsino 10:51:04 *** Garsino is now known as Westie 10:52:05 *** theholyduck [~holyduck@77.106.153.188] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:52:22 *** oskari89 [~oskari89@212-149-205-119.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 10:56:18 *** theholyduck [~holyduck@ip-139-138-106-77.eidsiva.net] has joined #openttd 10:59:29 *** luddek [~ludde@h-92-160.A189.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [Quit: luddek] 11:09:36 *** theholyduck [~holyduck@ip-139-138-106-77.eidsiva.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:10:33 *** theholyduck [~holyduck@77.106.159.32] has joined #openttd 11:11:20 *** Jolteon [~Jolt@ip04.rdlbnc.com] has quit [Quit: USERNAME RDL1 ATTEMPTED TO ACCESS A FORBIDDEN AREA. rdlBNC Security Shutdown.] 11:11:20 *** PeterT [~PeterT@rdlbnc.com] has quit [Quit: Goodbye] 11:13:48 <__ln__> http://seudun.kuvat.fi/kuvat/_Muualta/dustinthewind.jpg/full 11:17:26 *** Keyboard_Warrior [~holyduck@77.106.158.76] has joined #openttd 11:17:34 *** tokai [~tokai@port-92-195-136-38.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:19:49 *** tokai [~tokai@port-92-195-230-13.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #openttd 11:19:52 *** mode/#openttd [+v tokai] by ChanServ 11:23:09 *** Redirect_Left [~rdl@5ad09081.bb.sky.com] has joined #openttd 11:23:17 *** theholyduck [~holyduck@77.106.159.32] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:31:20 *** r0b0tb0y [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-41-16.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has joined #openttd 11:32:02 *** PeterT [~PeterT@rdlbnc.com] has joined #openttd 11:36:02 *** tokai [~tokai@port-92-195-230-13.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:38:18 *** tokai [~tokai@port-92-195-133-238.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #openttd 11:38:21 *** mode/#openttd [+v tokai] by ChanServ 11:38:54 *** robotboy [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-41-16.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:41:46 *** lewymati [~lewymati@89.230.159.206] has joined #openttd 11:44:57 *** ptr_ [~peter@n19-p40.kthopen.kth.se] has joined #openttd 11:49:24 *** holyduck [~holyduck@77.106.159.237] has joined #openttd 11:52:13 <andythenorth> can we teach the AI to build rivers? 11:52:27 <Eddi|zuHause> no 11:53:06 <Eddi|zuHause> you would have to start an AI in the scenario editor first 11:53:11 *** holyduck [~holyduck@77.106.159.237] has quit [] 11:53:27 *** r0b0tb0y [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-41-16.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:54:18 *** Keyboard_Warrior [~holyduck@77.106.158.76] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:54:19 <planetmaker> andythenorth, first we'd have to teach us building rivers ingame. Something which is easily solved but I don't know anymore why it wasn't wanted back then 11:54:20 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~Administr@88.130.171.73] has joined #openttd 11:54:28 <andythenorth> can we make it possible for rivers to be built in game? 11:54:34 <planetmaker> very easily 11:54:44 <Redirect_Left> isn't that a just a big canal? 11:54:52 <andythenorth> it's a canal with funny sprites :) 11:54:57 <andythenorth> and no locks 11:55:00 <planetmaker> andythenorth, I even have a patch for that somewhere... 11:55:11 <Ammler> wwottdgd/2 11:55:22 <planetmaker> exactly 11:55:28 *** theholyduck [~holyduck@77.106.159.237] has joined #openttd 11:55:30 <Eddi|zuHause> ... i have this old river generation patch lying around 11:55:31 <planetmaker> updating should be fairly simple 11:55:32 <andythenorth> did anyone try river generation algorithms? 11:55:38 <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause, you, too? ;-) 11:55:48 <Eddi|zuHause> but it depends on rivers on half-slopes 11:55:52 <planetmaker> andythenorth, afaik only Eddi and myself tried 11:55:58 <andythenorth> I wondered if it would be fun for an AI....just start at the coast and work upwards, trying to take turns every so often 11:56:14 <planetmaker> sounds like the wrong concept for river generation. 11:56:25 <planetmaker> It's not an AI task. It's a generic game task 11:56:51 <Eddi|zuHause> also it needs improvements wrt. getting stuck at minor or major obstacles 11:56:52 <planetmaker> using an AI doesn't really offer an advantage there IMHO 11:57:12 <planetmaker> yeah... slopes are a bitch. That's where the assertions strike 11:57:30 <planetmaker> and path finding. That's where it starts to look funny under certain conditions 11:58:18 <Eddi|zuHause> well, i just started somewhere, and went until there was a sink in the tgp-heightmap 11:58:41 <Eddi|zuHause> but this way, rivers tend to end on seemingly flat terrain 11:58:52 <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause, yeah, that results in lakes 11:59:12 <planetmaker> If you walk up it works, too, but rivers might be quite short... 11:59:24 <andythenorth> in some countries canals are major civil projects (rather than commercial projects), so a canal-building AI could be fun 11:59:24 <andythenorth> hmmm 11:59:24 <andythenorth> highways also 11:59:26 <andythenorth> AI for major infrastructure projects? 11:59:26 <andythenorth> we'd need a way to send it money via taxes :P 11:59:33 <planetmaker> http://openttdcoop.org/files/pm/patches/ <-- andythenorth there are my old patches 12:00:20 <planetmaker> andythenorth, no need for that. Just make it build routes with a vehicle preference. And proper algorithm. Then those things will happen automatically 12:00:32 <andythenorth> capitalism :P 12:00:39 <planetmaker> Look at current road AIs. They build huge road networks. 12:00:44 <andythenorth> I'm surprised by all you Europeans being so free-market :P 12:00:46 <planetmaker> Teach them to build highways and you're set 12:01:07 <planetmaker> highways as opposed to the normal roads they congest now 12:01:56 *** Guest214 is now known as George 12:02:15 <George> 1188 * 12 02 00 92 84 C1 00 00 02 90 00 91 00 12:02:15 <George> // 1188 * 11 02 00 92 83 00 00 02 90 00 91 00 12:02:28 <George> is the first line correct? 12:02:33 *** George is now known as Guest407 12:03:28 * planetmaker finds uncommented NFO quite hard to read as it needs numerous look-ups in the wiki 12:04:13 <Progman> s/uncommented (NFO quite hard to read).*// 12:05:04 *** devilsadvocate [~devilsadv@202.3.77.203] has joined #openttd 12:08:01 *** glx [glx@2a01:e35:2f59:c7c0:d08c:2ea2:646f:9af7] has joined #openttd 12:08:04 *** mode/#openttd [+v glx] by ChanServ 12:09:41 <Guest407> http://wiki.ttdpatch.net/tiki-index.php?page=RandomAction2 12:16:55 *** Guest407 [~George@212.113.107.39] has quit [] 12:17:36 *** George3 [~George@212.113.107.39] has joined #openttd 12:18:47 *** theholyduck [~holyduck@77.106.159.237] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 12:22:40 *** Fixer [~uzver@91.202.128.79] has joined #openttd 12:24:35 <planetmaker> George3, I doubt that C1 is a proper position within the consist 12:25:05 <George3> what value would mean first vehicle in the chain with the same ID? 12:25:50 <Ammler> George3: you really code that way? 12:26:02 <Ammler> big hex only rows? 12:26:53 <Ammler> then decoded "George-GRFs" _are_ like sources :-) 12:27:14 *** Fixer [~uzver@91.202.128.79] has left #openttd [] 12:27:36 <planetmaker> reading the docs it sounds right, though 12:27:43 *** Fixer [~uzver@91.202.128.79] has joined #openttd 12:28:37 *** lugo [~lugo@mgdb-4db8c3c4.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 12:29:22 <planetmaker> looks ok, though you use no random triggers nor random bits (you mask out everything) 12:29:54 <planetmaker> or I don't understand it. Rather likely 12:31:51 *** George3 is now known as George 12:32:54 <planetmaker> I'd try ...C1 8D 03... 12:33:40 <planetmaker> or whatever reason you want to call the randomizer, change the 2nd byte I quoted 12:34:07 <George> random-triggers 00 - when build 12:34:29 <planetmaker> is that so? 12:34:32 <George> randbit 00 is bit 0 is first bit 12:34:42 <planetmaker> 1st bit is 01 12:35:38 <planetmaker> it's a mask. And I don't see where you get the 00 = when build information from 12:35:58 <George> or untriggered bits, set only at the time of purchase 12:36:10 <George> (from wiki) 12:36:19 <planetmaker> link? 12:36:27 <George> http://wiki.ttdpatch.net/tiki-index.php?page=RandomAction2 12:36:29 <planetmaker> the link you gave doesn't stat that. 12:36:43 <planetmaker> 0 01 Vehicle gets new load of cargo (only after it was empty) 12:36:43 <planetmaker> 1 02 Vehicle enters a depot and is serviced 12:36:43 <planetmaker> 2 04 The consist has unloaded all cargo 12:36:43 <planetmaker> 3 08 Any vehicle of the consist receives cargo 12:36:43 <planetmaker> 4 10 Callback 32 returned 1 12:36:52 <planetmaker> ^ those triggers are available. No "upon build" 12:37:10 <George> random-triggers 12:37:10 <George> This is a bit mask of triggers which cause re-randomizing. Normally, any matching trigger causes the graphics to be randomized again, but if you add 80 to the bitmask, the re-randomizing only happens if all triggers have occurred. 12:37:10 <George> 12:37:10 <George> Trigger bits are feature-specific, see below. 12:37:10 <George> 12:37:11 <George> randbit 12:37:11 <George> For versions before 2.0.1 alpha 30, leave this at 00. It doesn't quite work the way intended (it was supposed to allow independent random chains, but currently everything is re-randomized at the same time, thereby defeating this mechanism). 12:37:14 <George> 12:37:14 <George> Since 2.0.1 alpha 30, only those bits that actually get triggered will be re-randomized. Prior versions always re-randomized all bits. This will make it possible to have independent sets of bits for independent triggers (or untriggered bits, set only at the time of purchase). Setting randbit determines the first bit to be re-randomized, as well as basing the random graphics on. The total number of bits used is the 2-logarithm of nrand below (e.g., for nrand 12:37:40 <planetmaker> yes? 12:37:55 <planetmaker> I don't read your conclusion from that 12:38:08 <George> it says "or untriggered bits, set only at the time of purchase" 12:38:37 <planetmaker> yes, ok 12:38:46 <George> that means that on purchase the randomisations always happens 12:38:53 *** theholyduck [~holyduck@77.106.159.62] has joined #openttd 12:39:08 <George> and value 00 means no randomisation in future 12:39:16 <George> (no trigger met) 12:40:04 *** lugo [~lugo@f050141004.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #openttd 12:41:02 <planetmaker> set randbit to 01 12:42:28 <George> why? 12:43:23 <planetmaker> you want to start with the 1st bit :-) 12:43:29 <planetmaker> and it's a bit mask 12:46:20 <George> wiki says "Setting randbit determines the first bit to be re-randomized" 12:46:46 <George> value 00 means start from first bit 12:46:47 *** Fixer [~uzver@91.202.128.79] has left #openttd [] 12:46:53 <George> (bit-0) 12:47:06 *** Fast2 [~Fast2@p57AF8278.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 12:47:10 <planetmaker> well. Then it is correct. Does it work for you? 12:47:35 <planetmaker> If not you might actually say what _does_ bother you 12:47:53 <planetmaker> instead of asking around your problem and having us doe guesswork 12:48:10 <Rubidium> that I have to do some shopping right now 12:48:35 <George> for me this part works as intended 12:48:40 <planetmaker> enjoy your feminine side, Rubidium ;-) 12:48:59 <planetmaker> ... err, George, so? 12:49:24 <planetmaker> it works for you, it is correct according to your wiki reading. So what's the real issue? 12:49:30 * planetmaker is quite baffled 12:49:33 <George> as for randomization 84 count c1 I get problem 12:50:13 <George> I currently made the following workaround, but it was not what I intended 12:50:21 <George> 1188 * 11 02 00 92 80 00 00 02 90 00 91 00 12:50:21 <George> 1189 * 12 02 00 93 84 41 00 00 02 90 00 91 00 12:50:21 <George> 1190 * 12 02 00 94 84 42 00 00 02 90 00 91 00 12:50:21 <George> 1191 * 12 02 00 95 84 43 00 00 02 90 00 91 00 12:50:21 <George> 1192 * 22 02 00 96 81 41 00 03 03 12:50:22 <George> 92 00 00 00 12:50:22 <George> 93 00 01 01 12:50:24 <George> 94 00 02 02 12:50:24 <George> 95 00 12:50:26 <George> // 1188 * 12 02 00 92 84 C1 00 00 02 90 00 91 00 12:50:26 <George> // 1188 * 11 02 00 92 83 00 00 02 90 00 91 00 12:50:30 <Redirect_Left> PASTEBIN PLS. 12:50:44 *** IPG [~chatzilla@daisu.martos.bme.hu] has quit [Read error: Connection timed out] 12:50:49 *** Redirect_Left [~rdl@5ad09081.bb.sky.com] has quit [] 12:50:51 *** Jolteon [~Jolt@ip04.rdlbnc.com] has joined #openttd 12:51:08 <George> http://paste.openttd.org/225763 12:51:38 <peter1138> ahh, the well documented NFO strikes again 12:51:44 <George> So, as you can see I test the position in the chan, but it is not absolutely correct 12:52:21 *** Fixer [~uzver@91.202.128.79] has joined #openttd 12:52:41 <planetmaker> count 12:52:41 <planetmaker> For type 84, this specifies which vehicle's random bits this vehicle will be using and/or modifying. 12:54:26 <George> peter1138: http://paste.openttd.org/225764 but me doubts that such comments help 12:54:56 *** IPG [~chatzilla@daisu.martos.bme.hu] has joined #openttd 12:55:06 <George> planetmaker: yes, but the problem is that how can I test the whole chain? 12:55:44 <George> I supposed value C1 would mean the first one in a row, but it does not work 12:56:39 <peter1138> no, that is not well documented NFO either 12:57:44 *** theholyduck [~holyduck@77.106.159.62] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:58:22 <George> peter1138: can you make the example of well documented NFO for these lines? 12:58:46 *** theholyduck [~holyduck@77.106.157.29] has joined #openttd 12:59:11 <planetmaker> http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/2cctrainset/repository/entry/sprites/nfo/mus/tempplate.pnfo <-- MU code from 2cctrainset 12:59:18 *** theholyduck [~holyduck@77.106.157.29] has quit [] 12:59:26 <planetmaker> see lines 146 following 12:59:29 <Eddi|zuHause> George: ideally, each byte, word or dword is commented individually on what it means 13:00:19 <Eddi|zuHause> but in the end, it's not the quantity of comments that matters 13:00:48 <peter1138> QUALTITYTYTYTYTY! 13:00:56 <planetmaker> tty? ;-) 13:01:23 * peter1138 remembers the days before the pts/x switchover 13:01:25 <Eddi|zuHause> what matters is that someone who doesn't code NFO every day can understand what's supposed to be going on without flipping back and forth in the specs 13:01:36 <George> Well, back to topic. is value C1 correct and should check random bits of the first vehicle in a row with the same ID? 13:01:49 <peter1138> tons of /dev/ttyPx entries instead 13:02:13 *** theholyduck [~holyduck@77.106.157.29] has joined #openttd 13:02:20 <peter1138> all statci 13:02:28 *** lugo [~lugo@f050141004.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 13:02:31 * planetmaker has no real clue about those random2 variables 13:02:53 *** fjb [~frank@p5485F3C6.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 13:02:55 <peter1138> hehe, what was the question? 13:06:16 <peter1138> ah, relative scope 13:06:46 <peter1138> C1 is 1100 0001 13:07:03 <Eddi|zuHause> ... hm... i shouldn't try to do three things simultaneously 13:08:59 <peter1138> so the C1 makes it start from the first vehicle in the chain with the same ID 13:09:14 <Belugas> hello 13:09:15 <peter1138> the 1 makes it take the next vehicle 13:12:25 <peter1138> well 13:12:36 *** IPG [~chatzilla@daisu.martos.bme.hu] has quit [Read error: Connection timed out] 13:12:43 *** KritiK [~Maxim@95-27-143-4.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #openttd 13:13:16 <peter1138> George, does that make sense? 13:14:01 *** fjb [~frank@p5485ED6E.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 13:14:48 *** IPG [~chatzilla@daisu.martos.bme.hu] has joined #openttd 13:18:51 <George> I epected the same 13:19:01 <George> but OTTD crashes 13:19:22 <George> Currently trying to make a test GRF and a bug report 13:19:42 <George> I just wanted to ask first if my code is correct 13:19:55 <George> According to the discussion - it should 13:19:55 <planetmaker> even incorrect code must not trigger a crash 13:19:58 <peter1138> do you know where in the chain it crashes? 13:20:57 <George> The crash happens when I press "new vehicle" bottom in depot 13:22:30 <peter1138> hm 13:22:38 <peter1138> looks like it could happen if the vehicle doesn't actually exist yet 13:22:56 <George> R19774 13:23:37 <George> you mean "beacuse the vehicle doesn't actually exist yet"? 13:24:07 <peter1138> if. i don't know yet. 13:24:49 *** lugo [~lugo@mgdb-4db8dac5.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 13:25:10 *** Goulpy [~Goulp@ip163.opsio.fr] has joined #openttd 13:25:19 <George> but in purchase window it does not exist yet, doesn't it? 13:25:28 <peter1138> it doesn't crash in the purcahse window though 13:25:37 <peter1138> it crashes when you build it 13:25:47 *** Goulpy is now known as regain 13:25:50 <George> so, I should make the test GRF, right? 13:26:03 *** Goulp is now known as Guest412 13:26:03 *** regain is now known as Goulp 13:26:25 <George> <@peter1138> it crashes when you build it - no. when I try to open purchase window 13:26:37 *** heffer [~felix@mue-88-130-111-012.dsl.tropolys.de] has joined #openttd 13:26:38 <peter1138> oh 13:26:39 <peter1138> okay 13:26:41 <peter1138> yeah 13:27:18 <peter1138> that would do it 13:27:30 <peter1138> it calls self->First() when self could be NULL 13:28:16 <George> do you mean you do not need a test GRF, you have found a problem already? 13:29:33 <peter1138> probably 13:29:39 <peter1138> do you compile your own openttd? 13:29:48 <George> never 13:29:57 <George> I use only nighties 13:30:00 <peter1138> well that's not helpful 13:30:06 <George> R19774 currently 13:30:59 <peter1138> http://fuzzle.org/~petern/ottd/fsgeorge.diff 13:31:04 <peter1138> ^ that's probably your first 13:31:05 <peter1138> er 13:31:06 <peter1138> ^ that's probably your fix 13:31:08 *** Guest412 [~Goulp@ip163.opsio.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 13:31:10 <peter1138> but i can't test it, so 13:32:34 *** JostVice [~jostvice@85.136.129.22.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #openttd 13:38:25 <George> http://bugs.openttd.org/task/3828 13:38:39 <George> can I add anything? 13:38:52 *** Fixer [~uzver@91.202.128.79] has left #openttd [] 13:39:22 *** Fixer [~uzver@91.202.128.79] has joined #openttd 13:39:40 *** Devedse [~Devedse@cable-213-34-232-56.zeelandnet.nl] has joined #openttd 13:47:00 <__ln__> http://scitechie.com/04/amazing-chinese-concept-the-train-that-never-stops/ 13:50:19 <Eddi|zuHause> how is that a "chinese" concept? i have seen "moving platforms" etc. in a german TV show 20 years ago... 13:51:40 <__ln__> is there something the chinese wouldn't copy 13:52:20 <Doorslammer> Its a ridiculous idea 13:52:43 <__ln__> *it's 13:53:31 <Doorslammer> That as well 13:56:54 *** bryjen [~bryjen@63.147.94.149] has joined #openttd 13:57:32 *** yorick [~yorick@s55924da0.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has joined #openttd 13:58:47 <theholyduck> Doorslammer, well it could work in theory, if albeit a bit impractical both from the point of view of drag, not to mention making the transition smooth 13:58:59 <theholyduck> and finally, what if loads of people wants to board the train? 13:59:11 <Doorslammer> Oh, I don't think that's the biggest worry here 13:59:25 <Doorslammer> Ah, you got it there with the last point 13:59:52 <theholyduck> not to mention 13:59:55 <theholyduck> LEAVE the train 14:00:53 <Doorslammer> I bet their current catenary requirements have scuppered it already too 14:01:24 * theholyduck wishes the norwegian train system was more reliable 14:01:51 <theholyduck> there has been only minimal maintenance on it for years apparently. 14:01:57 <theholyduck> and now its falling appart everywhere 14:02:45 <Doorslammer> The opposite has an even funnier ring to it 14:03:02 <theholyduck> the only good part is the relativly cheap 1st class wagon and the silent wagon 14:03:07 <theholyduck> because they're almost always empty 14:03:08 <Doorslammer> Not long ago, a suburban EMU got caught up in some wires 14:03:18 <Doorslammer> Public and media reaction to it? 14:03:26 <theholyduck> where as the rest of the trains can be way overcrowded 14:03:27 <Doorslammer> "Why on earth did this happen?" 14:05:32 <Doorslammer> Like things don't break on catenary systems... 14:08:05 <Doorslammer> lol, did anyone read the comment under that article? 14:08:22 <Doorslammer> MICHAEL j. sCHMITZ says: 14:08:22 <Doorslammer> April 26, 2010 at 3:18 am 14:08:22 <Doorslammer> LOOKS SLEEK, BUT I WONDER IF IT FLIES OVER EARTHQUAKES. NOW IS CHINA READY TO BUY MY EARTHQUAKE SOLUTION YET. THEY ALL ORIGINATE IN ONE LOCATION, IN ONE COUNTRY WHERE IF MY SOLUTION IF IMPLEMENTED THERE, IT WILL DELETE ALL EARTHQUAKES AND QUAKE RELATED TSUNAMIâS. retired524@wildblue.net 14:09:57 <planetmaker> are you alright? 14:11:09 <Doorslammer> Why on earth do you ask? 14:11:47 <theholyduck> Doorslammer, that comment made me lol 14:12:01 <theholyduck> Doorslammer, there was a huge train related accident in norway this year actually 14:12:08 <Doorslammer> Was there? 14:12:12 <theholyduck> Doorslammer, some trains at a station came loose or something 14:12:19 <theholyduck> at the top of a hill 14:12:30 <theholyduck> and went down sevral km of hills 14:12:32 <Doorslammer> Crikey, in Norway? 14:12:37 <theholyduck> untill derailing and flying straight through a dock 14:12:44 <theholyduck> through houses, cars, and what not 14:12:46 <theholyduck> Doorslammer, yeah 14:13:54 <Doorslammer> How on earth can something like that happen in 2010. Did we suddenly fly back to 1889 or something? 14:13:59 <Doorslammer> Something similar in South Africa too 14:14:46 <theholyduck> Doorslammer, well the breaks didnt work 14:14:47 <theholyduck> apparently 14:14:55 <theholyduck> Doorslammer, they did manage to route it off the trafficated lines 14:15:01 <theholyduck> but didnt have time to get people out of the way 14:15:14 <Doorslammer> Thats still a bit mad 14:15:29 <theholyduck> http://www.vg.no/bildespesial/spesial.php?id=7563 Doorslammer 14:15:36 <theholyduck> hit the "neste" button to see various pics 14:16:29 <theholyduck> http://www.dagbladet.no/2010/03/24/nyheter/innenriks/togulykke/10996149/ has a huge pic at the top of one of the buildings hit 14:18:05 *** KouDy [~KouDy@rb5ck203.net.upc.cz] has joined #openttd 14:18:52 *** Mazur [~mazur@53551A99.cable.casema.nl] has joined #openttd 14:21:27 *** Mazur [~mazur@53551A99.cable.casema.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:24:00 *** Mazur [~mazur@53551A99.cable.casema.nl] has joined #openttd 14:24:26 *** Keyboard_Warrior [~holyduck@95.169.63.199] has joined #openttd 14:24:38 *** Mazur [~mazur@53551A99.cable.casema.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:24:57 *** Mazur [~mazur@53551A99.cable.casema.nl] has joined #openttd 14:28:30 *** r0b0tb0y [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-41-16.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has joined #openttd 14:30:31 *** theholyduck [~holyduck@77.106.157.29] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:31:06 *** heffer_ [~felix@mue-88-130-92-250.dsl.tropolys.de] has joined #openttd 14:34:13 *** Devedse [~Devedse@cable-213-34-232-56.zeelandnet.nl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:34:39 *** Devedse [~Devedse@cable-213-34-232-56.zeelandnet.nl] has joined #openttd 14:38:34 *** heffer [~felix@mue-88-130-111-012.dsl.tropolys.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:42:37 *** Fast2 [~Fast2@p57AF8278.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:45:00 *** jpx_ [jpx_@e83-245-138-93.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [] 15:04:00 *** llugo [~lugo@mgdb-4db8fa82.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 15:08:57 *** lugo [~lugo@mgdb-4db8dac5.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:15:50 *** last_evolution [~last_evol@r5ba58.net.upc.cz] has joined #openttd 15:17:53 *** jpx_ [jpx_@e83-245-138-93.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #openttd 15:20:02 *** Keyboard_Warrior [~holyduck@95.169.63.199] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:20:14 *** theholyduck [~holyduck@95.169.63.199] has joined #openttd 15:23:38 *** r0b0tb0y [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-41-16.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:24:08 *** lobster [~michielbi@86.89.201.189] has joined #openttd 15:28:14 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: i wrote a reply on the forum, hope it's helpful... 15:28:49 *** ptr_ [~peter@n19-p40.kthopen.kth.se] has quit [Quit: Zzzzzz] 15:34:08 *** welshdragon [~welshdrag@188.72.255.192] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:39:08 *** heffer_ [~felix@mue-88-130-92-250.dsl.tropolys.de] has quit [Quit: heffer_] 15:40:28 *** Adambean [AdamR@82.hosts.reece-eu.net] has joined #openttd 15:58:15 *** welshdragon [~welshdrag@188.72.255.192] has joined #openttd 16:09:17 *** fonsinchen [~fonsinche@brln-4dbc186f.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:18:39 *** Devroush [~dennis@ip-83-134-159-208.dsl.scarlet.be] has joined #openttd 16:18:39 *** ecke [~ecke@188.75.128.2] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:19:25 *** Kurimus [Kurimus@dsl-tkubrasgw1-fe32dc00-253.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [] 16:20:12 *** Mazur [~mazur@53551A99.cable.casema.nl] has quit [Quit: Partir, c'est mourir un peu.] 16:21:02 *** Mazur [~mazur@53551A99.cable.casema.nl] has joined #openttd 16:21:42 *** Lokimaros [~mazur@53551A99.cable.casema.nl] has joined #openttd 16:24:09 *** Mazur [~mazur@53551A99.cable.casema.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:24:19 *** Lokimaros is now known as Mazur 16:27:39 *** Kurimus [Kurimus@dsl-tkubrasgw1-fe32dc00-253.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #openttd 16:27:47 * Mazur is away: I'm busy 16:27:49 * Mazur is back (gone 00:00:02) 16:28:12 <OwenS> Mazur: Please keep away notifications to /away and /back... 16:28:35 <Belugas> or you'll be away and not back any time soon 16:28:36 *** Mazur [~mazur@53551A99.cable.casema.nl] has quit [Quit: Partir, c'est mourir un peu.] 16:28:37 <Belugas> buwahahahahaha 16:28:54 <Belugas> hey... that was not me! 16:28:54 *** Mazur [~mazur@53551A99.cable.casema.nl] has joined #openttd 16:29:30 *** Grelouk [~Grelouk@93.21.18.195] has joined #openttd 16:31:15 *** Mazur [~mazur@53551A99.cable.casema.nl] has quit [] 16:31:49 *** Doorslammer [Doorslamme@119.11.17.230] has quit [] 16:32:15 *** Mazur [~mazur@53551A99.cable.casema.nl] has joined #openttd 16:34:35 *** Jhs [~Jhs4@212.80-202-26.nextgentel.com] has joined #openttd 16:35:53 <OwenS> Whoa! Gordon Brown to resign! 16:36:13 *** JostVice [~jostvice@85.136.129.22.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:37:17 *** IPG [~chatzilla@daisu.martos.bme.hu] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.3/20100401080539]] 16:37:36 *** JostVice [~jostvice@85.136.129.22.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #openttd 16:46:43 *** ptr_ [~peter@c213-89-142-224.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #openttd 16:51:08 *** Goulp [~Goulp@ip163.opsio.fr] has quit [Quit: PACKET_SERVER_SHUTDOWN] 16:51:19 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-590ff5e2.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 16:53:56 *** |Jeroen| [~jeroen@94-224-31-113.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd 17:08:57 *** Chillosophy [~fu@195-241-120-76.ip.telfort.nl] has joined #openttd 17:11:47 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: rubidium * r19781 /trunk/ (config.lib src/network/core/os_abstraction.h src/stdafx.h): -Fix [FS#3809]: compilation on NetBSD failed (Krille) 17:13:00 *** theholyduck [~holyduck@95.169.63.199] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:15:52 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@host138-233-dynamic.15-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #openttd 17:16:02 *** heffer [~felix@static-87-78-98-150.netcologne.de] has joined #openttd 17:16:07 <Wolf01> hello 17:17:04 <__ln__> buonasera 17:17:15 <Belugas> bonne soiree 17:18:58 *** theholyduck [~holyduck@77.106.157.10] has joined #openttd 17:24:33 <Wolf01> gah internet connection freezed.. it's too slow, I can't even open tt-forums... maybe I should try to odd open it :| 17:27:47 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: peter1138 * r19782 /trunk/src/newgrf_engine.cpp: -Fix [FS#3828]: NULL pointer deference when testing relative scope *action2 on an unbuilt engine. 17:28:50 <Wolf01> I want to code an addin to the transparent toolbar: transparent roads/rails, at least one could see what's under the road. 17:29:22 *** theholyduck [~holyduck@77.106.157.10] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:29:28 <peter1138> but there isn't anything under the road 17:30:22 <Wolf01> For me it's useful because I often place 2 parallel one-way roads to simulate the highways, and to stop cities/competitors to spawn crossings all around I dig the terrain in the middle 17:30:45 <Wolf01> So I need to see where the terrain is plain and where it's dug :P 17:33:35 <Belugas> Wolf01, there is nothing under the road/rail. it's plain grass 17:33:40 <Belugas> in ottd, at least 17:34:18 <Wolf01> but there is a trench under my road! 17:34:30 <Belugas> ? 17:34:56 <Belugas> PROVE IT! 17:35:09 <peter1138> There isn't. It's filled by the foundations. 17:36:26 *** ecke [~ecke@188.75.128.2] has joined #openttd 17:36:41 *** Lakie [~Lakie@91.84.251.149] has joined #openttd 17:38:01 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1D5C3.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:39:20 * Belugas enjoys The Cure, from all era 17:42:06 *** Jhs [~Jhs4@212.80-202-26.nextgentel.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:43:26 *** nighthawk_c_m [~nighthawk@pD9505F37.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 17:43:44 <Wolf01> http://yfrog.com/83roadtrenchp here 17:44:55 <nighthawk_c_m> evening guys 17:45:20 <Wolf01> 'night, hawk 17:45:21 <planetmaker> evening guy 17:45:24 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: translators * r19783 /trunk/src/lang/ (polish.txt russian.txt): 17:45:24 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0: 17:45:24 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: polish - 5 changes by xine 17:45:24 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: russian - 24 changes by Lone_Wolf 17:47:00 <Belugas> Wolf01 : [13:35] <@peter1138> There isn't. It's filled by the foundations. 17:47:55 <Wolf01> at least I should see the foundations 17:49:35 *** Polygon [~Poly@x0581b.wh7.tu-dresden.de] has joined #openttd 17:50:52 *** einKarl [~einKarl@95-89-121-65-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #openttd 17:51:36 <Belugas> hem... nope 17:51:52 <Belugas> 'cause on top of the foundations, there is only grass :) 17:53:13 <Wolf01> and overlaying a transparent sloped tile over the road? 17:56:19 <Sacro> http://www.freepatentsonline.com/6938241.html 17:58:14 <Belugas> Wolf01, and what to do when there are no slopes? 17:58:40 <Wolf01> draw nothing 17:58:53 <Belugas> then your not really better 17:59:05 <Belugas> two standards are bad, i'd say 17:59:19 <Belugas> one for foundations, one for nothing 17:59:20 <Belugas> bad 17:59:34 <Wolf01> then draw a plane tile, so it looks like the road is transparent 18:04:19 <Belugas> so... basically, you're saying that roads should be transparent and invisible 18:04:28 <Wolf01> yep 18:04:42 <Belugas> aqnd right now, they are just invisible 18:06:28 <Wolf01> if you draw a transparent overlay, like it works for bridges, houses.. the roads should look like transparent too, but we need to add the overlay only when the transparency is active 18:07:16 <Wolf01> there is no need to draw the standard tile + the transparent road tile when the road is "solid" 18:08:01 *** COLT [c3745e5b@ircip2.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 18:08:28 <COLT> are ther any Bananas admin ?? 18:08:28 <Wolf01> it might require a little change here and there, but I think it's easy to do 18:09:55 <COLT> I have big problem 18:10:16 <Ammler> COLT: https://secure.openttd.org/bugs/index.php?project=4 18:10:45 <Ammler> (if they don't answer here) 18:10:54 <COLT> its not a bug 18:11:52 <COLT> One of our members quit and we don't have contact with him. We want to delete old version of Polish Set from bananas but we dont have account passwords etc . is possible to delete Polish Set 1.5a from Bananas by the admin. 18:12:07 <Ammler> you can't delete 18:12:11 <COLT> I'am Polish Set developer 18:12:36 <Ammler> but you could upload a new version, then the old isn't available anymore 18:12:39 <COLT> then how to remove it from bananas 18:12:51 <COLT> i write 18:12:55 <Ammler> or hide it with min/max version 18:12:57 <Belugas> Wolf01, it "feels" decent, i'd say 18:14:02 <Ammler> they do delete only, if the upload was against the TOS 18:14:05 <COLT> "One of our members quit and we don't have contact with him. We want to delete old version of Polish Set from bananas but we dont have account passwords etc" thats a problem 18:14:20 <Ammler> that is no reason :-) 18:14:42 <Ammler> but you could ask them to move the set to an other account 18:14:45 *** welshdragon [~welshdrag@188.72.255.192] has quit [Quit: Bye!] 18:14:48 <COLT> and on bananas are two versions of Polish Set 18:15:01 *** oskari89 [~oskari89@212-149-205-119.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined #openttd 18:15:10 <COLT> i make new account to upload new version 18:15:37 <Ammler> but then you have 3 different? 18:16:06 <COLT> what 3 different 18:16:45 <COLT> iur member have account and quit on his account is Polish Set 1.5a 18:17:07 <COLT> i make new account to upload new version of Set 18:17:11 *** heffer [~felix@static-87-78-98-150.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: heffer] 18:17:29 <Ammler> COLT: you should ask them to move it to you 18:17:33 <Ammler> so you can update that 18:18:01 <Ammler> so the old set will automatically be hidden 18:19:47 <COLT> i wrote post on forum maybe that helps :) 18:19:51 <andythenorth> evening 18:20:08 <Ammler> I would recommend to use "set account" if you are team, but TB doesn't like that. 18:21:03 <Ammler> COLT: or mail to rubidium|truebrain@openttd.org 18:21:08 <planetmaker> COLT: you make yourself an account and ask one of the bananas admins nicely whether they give your account also access to the set 18:21:30 <planetmaker> Though not user-configurable, it's possible for more than one account to have access to an entry 18:21:41 <planetmaker> One thing no single account can do is to delete an old entry. 18:22:11 <planetmaker> And that's something which the TOS state: you agree that things are allowed to be kept eternally on bananas 18:22:52 <planetmaker> good evening andythenorth :-) 18:23:34 *** theholyduck [~holyduck@77.106.157.10] has joined #openttd 18:23:55 <planetmaker> COLT, but something you should not do is to create a new entry for an update of the Polish train set. 18:24:08 <planetmaker> Then you made sure that the old entry will remain active ;-) 18:24:31 *** welshdragon [~welshdrag@188.72.255.192] has joined #openttd 18:25:10 <Rubidium> planetmaker: they changed the GRF ID, so it's considered a new NewGRF 18:25:36 <COLT> yes i chnged id to can upload 18:26:37 <planetmaker> Rubidium, always? IIRC FIRS and 2cctrainset have already updated old versions by changing the GRFID 18:26:40 <Ammler> colt the only reason? 18:26:48 <Ammler> else it would still be compatible? 18:27:02 <planetmaker> but might be that at the same time the max version for the old ones was limited to something reasonably low 18:27:12 <Rubidium> planetmaker: don't know whether updating checks for the same NewGRF ID 18:27:18 <Ammler> same entry can have different ID, but not same ID different entries 18:27:21 <planetmaker> Rubidium, I think it doesn't 18:27:33 <planetmaker> (which I consider sensible) 18:27:45 <planetmaker> If the author knows what they do ;-) 18:28:10 <Rubidium> ah, yes... looking at the DB that seems possible 18:28:21 <Ammler> COLT: why do you ask here, if you do anyway what you want? 18:28:27 <planetmaker> even OpenGFX exercised that with the extra newgrf ;-) 18:28:51 <COLT> remove old version of Polish Set 1.5a 18:28:52 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1D5C3.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 18:28:53 <planetmaker> first act, then ask ;-) 18:28:56 *** Polygon [~Poly@x0581b.wh7.tu-dresden.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:29:06 <planetmaker> COLT, that's not possible, won't happen. You agreed that it won't happen. 18:29:09 <planetmaker> Or the old author did 18:29:20 <planetmaker> You even agreed that your current uploaded version will NEVER be removed 18:29:24 <COLT> old author gone lost 18:29:29 <Ammler> some might need that grf for the saves they have 18:29:29 <planetmaker> doesn't matter 18:29:30 *** Polygon [~Poly@x0581b.wh7.tu-dresden.de] has joined #openttd 18:29:44 <Rubidium> planetmaker: I don't think that base sets test GRF IDs 18:30:00 <Rubidium> also, there are two explanations of removing something 18:30:08 <planetmaker> yes, may be. 18:30:39 <Rubidium> the "removing it from the list that will be shown in-game" vs "removing it completely so it can't be found by GRF ID + md5 checksum anymore" 18:30:52 <Rubidium> the former can be done, the latter won't be done 18:31:53 <Rubidium> there, now he should be happ 18:31:55 <Rubidium> +y 18:32:07 <planetmaker> :-) 18:32:33 <planetmaker> uh... a NC-ND set :-( 18:32:43 <Rubidium> COLT: next time please ask about taking over something before jumping through hoops to get it working/done 18:32:58 *** ajmiles [~aj@78-86-188-187.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd 18:33:22 <planetmaker> Rubidium, what license did the old one have? 18:33:32 <Rubidium> the same 18:33:36 <planetmaker> ok :-) 18:33:53 <COLT> ok one more thanx and sry for a problem 18:34:11 <Ammler> colt, how can a team develop a "ND" set? 18:34:42 <planetmaker> :-) good question. May you modify stuff from the old author? ;-) 18:35:36 <Rubidium> if the copyright is assigned to the same entity there should be no problem at all 18:36:43 <Ammler> Rubidium: I know, it is possible, I just wonder, how they manage such a complex license ;-) 18:38:02 <Ammler> what is a legal entity? 18:39:13 * andythenorth is a legal entity 18:39:17 <planetmaker> Ammler, many things can be. Also a bunch of people 18:39:21 <andythenorth> should vehicle reliability be hidden? 18:39:30 <Wolf01> Belugas, so... it might be a good idea? 18:39:33 <planetmaker> anything which can be sued basically 18:39:43 <andythenorth> or which can hold copyright (for example) 18:39:49 <andythenorth> or enter into a contract 18:39:51 <Ammler> andythenorth: single persons is easy 18:40:12 <planetmaker> andythenorth, "can enter contracts" is - afaik - the important thing 18:40:31 <Belugas> Wolf01, i've not said that. I said it felt decent, mostly talking about the arguments 18:40:52 <Belugas> i don't feel in a postion to say it's a good idea or not 18:42:28 *** fonsinchen [~fonsinche@brln-4dbc186f.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 18:43:38 <andythenorth> interesting 18:43:54 <andythenorth> planetmaker...I was going to tidy up your newgrf GUI layout, but ChillCore got there first :) 18:44:03 <andythenorth> it looks ok, I can't read the buttons though :O 18:45:08 *** COLT [c3745e5b@ircip2.mibbit.com] has quit [Quit: goodnight] 18:45:52 <frosch123> the details panel is far too small on the horizontal arrangements. it could never take widgets for paramters 18:47:16 <andythenorth> frosch123: from what I can see, most people don't care about that 18:47:39 <andythenorth> :) 18:47:55 <andythenorth> the lists are the main thing for most of the players who've commented 18:48:17 * andythenorth wonders though 18:48:19 <frosch123> because there is nothing much with parameters yet :p 18:48:24 <andythenorth> also.... 18:48:55 <andythenorth> the people commenting here and on the forums are serious power users of the game. They know the grfs, and they care about things like MD5 sum and the ordering of newgrfs 18:49:41 <andythenorth> meanwhile....I watch the bananas download counts for newgrfs. They are *way* out of proportion to visits to the newgrf forums 18:50:22 <andythenorth> I reckon it's very easy to ignore the experience of all those players who just get the game and only use bananas 18:50:37 *** tokai [~tokai@port-92-195-133-238.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:52:49 *** tokai [~tokai@port-92-195-216-120.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #openttd 18:52:52 *** mode/#openttd [+v tokai] by ChanServ 18:54:04 * andythenorth doesn't have the hump but is a bit baffled by the GUI justifications 18:54:18 <andythenorth> if the lists are so important why keep making them so small? It's bizarre. 18:54:54 <andythenorth> it's like when some of you tell me the proper way to do something with code and I just say "no thanks, I just want a dirty hack" very frustrating :P 18:55:06 <frosch123> whats small about them? 18:55:45 <planetmaker> frosch123: andythenorth I honestly don't care much about whether Alberth's vertical list arrangement or my horizontal one gets implemented 18:55:51 <frosch123> you can always make them to not open in the smallest size 18:55:57 <planetmaker> if the vertical one by Alberth is more future proof: quite fine with me 18:56:23 <andythenorth> Let's all fall out about it ! Fork Fork! 18:56:25 <andythenorth> Or not 18:56:26 <planetmaker> and yes, I see that the detail information is too small. Chillcore's mockup actually shows it clearly. The 2cctrainset description is truncated in his view 18:56:27 <andythenorth> :D 18:56:40 <frosch123> planetmaker: if i got it right, due to nested widgets it does not matter at all, as it can be easily changed :p 18:56:51 <planetmaker> :-) 18:56:56 *** Polygon [~Poly@x0581b.wh7.tu-dresden.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:57:01 <planetmaker> frosch123: quite true 18:57:29 <planetmaker> apropos change: was it agreed upon that the difficulty choice can go without replacement? 18:57:29 *** Polygon [~Poly@x0581b.wh7.tu-dresden.de] has joined #openttd 18:57:41 <frosch123> andy has nice button arrangements btw :) 18:57:59 * andythenorth waves bye bye to difficulty 18:58:01 <planetmaker> yes, he has 18:58:24 <planetmaker> they're in my local repo already moved to the adv. settings - but now the (old) difficulty window has many undefined strings :-P 18:58:30 <planetmaker> so it has to go ;-) 18:58:42 <andythenorth> I think the 2 list, info below version can be tidied up. I might try. My taste is irrelevant to solving the problem. 18:58:50 <planetmaker> andythenorth: we forgot one thing in the main GUI: the highscore :-) 18:58:58 <andythenorth> ha 18:58:59 <frosch123> planetmaker: i do not care about difficulties, but i guess it also requires trashing the highscore. which it do not care either :p 18:59:03 <andythenorth> stupid highscores :) 18:59:08 <frosch123> however, i am not the only one 18:59:26 <planetmaker> frosch123: it doesn't require that. Just making it accessible from the main menu will hopefully work 18:59:43 <frosch123> isn't highscore per difficulty level? 18:59:51 <planetmaker> hm... I don't know :-) 19:00:02 <frosch123> i might be mistaken as well :) 19:00:03 <planetmaker> So far I only moved the settings ;-) 19:01:31 * planetmaker now clones the repo to the devzone 19:02:24 *** devilsadvocate [~devilsadv@202.3.77.203] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:02:36 <frosch123> yes, the highscore is per difficulty level 19:02:42 <frosch123> so only "custom" would remain 19:02:56 <planetmaker> that doesn't really bother me :-) 19:03:05 <frosch123> same would hold for newgrfs (i guess only ecs vectors use it) 19:03:23 <planetmaker> hm? 19:03:48 <planetmaker> oh, they can read that? Why does no one use it? :-) 19:03:52 *** Polygon [~Poly@x0581b.wh7.tu-dresden.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:03:55 <frosch123> ecs disallows turning of stockpiles, resources and such when on "hard" setting 19:04:02 <planetmaker> tsk 19:04:25 *** Polygon [~Poly@x0581b.wh7.tu-dresden.de] has joined #openttd 19:04:54 <frosch123> but i guess, if someone complains then due to removing the highscore or their nice "hard" setting or so 19:05:37 <planetmaker> well. I'm thinking of possibly re-adding that then under the game generation menu 19:06:00 <planetmaker> With a revised list of settings which constitute difficulty levels 19:06:22 <planetmaker> Maybe some kind of indicator in the adv. settings which shows which settings are affected 19:06:52 <planetmaker> And only have the difficulty choice obvious on a 2nd 'new game' tab. Jointly with the amount of towns and industries or so 19:07:17 *** Devedse [~Devedse@cable-213-34-232-56.zeelandnet.nl] has quit [Quit: Ik ga weg] 19:07:34 <planetmaker> So: 1st tab: Only map settings. 2nd, 3rd tab: newgrf + AI, 4th tab: difficulty + access to adv. settings 19:08:02 <planetmaker> + town#, town names 19:08:18 <planetmaker> those things which don't belong strictly to map in the smallest sense 19:08:45 <planetmaker> or that tab is just the diff. settings and the adv. settings displayed below... hm 19:08:59 <planetmaker> sounds nearly like a plan ;-) 19:09:09 <planetmaker> yes, I like talking to myself :-P 19:12:20 <frosch123> i guess one highscore for all settings should be enough 19:13:08 <planetmaker> I guess so, too 19:13:31 <frosch123> there is no point in distinguishing them by difficulty, as there are more important settings like map size :p 19:13:39 <planetmaker> :-) yup 19:14:05 <frosch123> but likely newbies need some kind of highscore until they learn that they have to build 200 busstops or so :p 19:14:13 <planetmaker> hehe 19:14:25 <planetmaker> actually that assumption isn't true anymore ;-) 19:14:33 <planetmaker> though bus stops help. 19:15:02 <frosch123> i guess highscore should be on main menu 19:15:07 <planetmaker> yes. 19:15:10 <frosch123> iirc it is there for most games 19:15:26 <planetmaker> I think changing the 'difficulty' button to 'highscores' is what I like to do :-) 19:15:42 <frosch123> would keep the layout :p 19:15:49 *** devilsadvocate [~devilsadv@202.3.77.231] has joined #openttd 19:16:06 <planetmaker> the main menu layout is something only to be changed once things are (also) found in the game creation dialogue ;-) 19:17:05 *** lewymati [~lewymati@89.230.159.206] has quit [] 19:17:27 * Rubidium wonders what the point of adding two more settings to the map generation window are; there are already too much things to choose from for most people 19:18:39 <planetmaker> Rubidium: you mean those patches I posted? 19:19:13 <Rubidium> yep 19:19:15 <planetmaker> those two are two things which one really might want to change from game to game - unlike most adv. settings 19:19:35 <planetmaker> driving side depends upon whether I chose db set or japanese set. As do town names 19:19:41 <andythenorth> planetmaker: resp. towns + industries etc. on a 2nd tab.....that's my conclusion too 19:19:43 <planetmaker> The other settings can remain 19:19:50 <planetmaker> andythenorth: yes, that will come 19:19:51 <Rubidium> but then they're more related to NewGRF settings 19:19:57 <andythenorth> hence something like 'gameplay settings' or 'world settings' or some such name 19:20:03 <planetmaker> Rubidium: in a way 19:20:19 <planetmaker> As stated there, they're a first step 19:20:34 <planetmaker> In a 2nd step I'd like to move them to a separate tab in the new game dialogue 19:20:43 <Rubidium> also the language changes are a big mess due to breaking the alignment 19:20:56 <planetmaker> hm :S 19:21:05 <Rubidium> maybe doing it in the reverse order is better 19:21:14 <planetmaker> what in reverse order? 19:21:32 <Rubidium> first making the separate tab with some stuff, then moving the game options to that tab 19:21:57 <planetmaker> ah 19:22:16 <planetmaker> yeah, maybe an idea 19:22:26 <andythenorth> he could be right :) 19:24:12 <planetmaker> making tabs is the difficult part of all this anyway :-) 19:24:45 * andythenorth wonders about a pleasing design for the tabs 19:25:01 <planetmaker> andythenorth: you're responsible for the design of that ;-) 19:25:06 <planetmaker> you're the graphics artist :-P 19:25:19 <andythenorth> well it has to be rectangular :) 19:25:27 <Ammler> a button "next" 19:26:24 <andythenorth> for why? 19:28:20 *** heffer [~felix@static-87-78-98-150.netcologne.de] has joined #openttd 19:28:21 * planetmaker has an idea and grabs gimp 19:33:32 *** ajmiles2 [~aj@78-86-188-187.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd 19:36:00 * planetmaker is not happy with gimp :S 19:36:18 * frosch123 is happy with coffee 19:36:28 * andythenorth is happy with sea bass 19:39:00 <frosch123> https://secure.openttd.org/www/en/server/30488 <- andythenorth: i guess most users either do not use any newgrfs, or use a mess like that. in any case the gui does not matter 19:39:13 <frosch123> so i guess it is fine to design the gui for advanced users 19:39:53 *** ajmiles [~aj@78-86-188-187.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:40:18 <planetmaker> outch @ server newgrf list 19:40:58 *** Keyboard_Warrior [~holyduck@ip-80-139-106-77.eidsiva.net] has joined #openttd 19:41:02 <frosch123> it even contains logic train :p 19:42:25 <planetmaker> well. That can make sense :-) 19:42:31 <planetmaker> it cannot use wagons anyway 19:42:51 <andythenorth> I reckon they just download everything on bananas and install it 19:43:02 <frosch123> oh, i guess you use it for silly junctions in regular games 19:43:33 <planetmaker> andythenorth: yeah, that seems to happen more often than one thinks 19:43:41 <planetmaker> frosch123: yes :-P 19:43:47 <andythenorth> well there's no harm in it, but.... 19:43:52 <Ammler> planetmaker: cannot != shoudn't ;-) 19:43:53 <andythenorth> why? 19:43:55 <planetmaker> though the amount of games we use it is small 19:44:05 <andythenorth> Is it the lack of info? Or just human nature? 19:44:11 <frosch123> and there is still an impressive number of servers which only use generic trams 19:44:53 <frosch123> which i consider as "we know grfs, but we do not want to play with stupid grfs, but we want trams" 19:45:07 <andythenorth> :) 19:45:15 * andythenorth thinks of a newgrf gui layout 19:45:30 <andythenorth> it's space efficient but won't be beautiful :| 19:45:43 <Ammler> frosch123: I would consider it as "We have no idea about grfs, but that trams thing was there with 0.6" 19:46:05 <frosch123> i would accept that reason with 0.6, but not 1.0.1 19:46:07 <andythenorth> hmm 19:46:16 <Ammler> updated server 19:46:39 <andythenorth> so if newgrf info doesn't fit in current newgrf window, what is supposed to happen? 19:47:06 <andythenorth> is the answer 'Fail' ? 19:47:25 * andythenorth had never noticed the text truncation before 19:47:27 *** theholyduck [~holyduck@77.106.157.10] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:47:51 <Ammler> or it is simply too difficulty to setup a game with grfs on a server. 19:52:23 <devilsadvocate> i usually play with a small set of newgrfs, but i like to move things around on occasion. i'd certainly welcome a new interface 19:55:13 *** Keyboard_Warrior [~holyduck@ip-80-139-106-77.eidsiva.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:56:33 *** theholyduck [~holyduck@ip-80-139-106-77.eidsiva.net] has joined #openttd 19:58:08 <nighthawk_c_m> Could a linebreak be coded so Newgrf info is not truncated? 19:58:42 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1D5C3.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:00:31 *** ajmiles3 [~aj@78-86-188-187.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd 20:03:37 <Belugas> what do you mean? where? 20:04:22 <andythenorth> nighthawk_c_m: if there isn't room for the text, it has to be truncated no? 20:04:32 <nighthawk_c_m> In that case yes 20:04:47 <nighthawk_c_m> Could it be made in a scrollable window? 20:05:01 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: you requested a large info panel for newgrfs 20:05:05 <nighthawk_c_m> like a little scrollbox, might be necessary as sometimes parameters are explained at the end 20:05:22 *** ajmiles2 [~aj@78-86-188-187.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:06:10 <Belugas> ho... 20:06:13 <Belugas> that... 20:07:20 <andythenorth> planetmaker: what are you gimping? :P 20:08:03 *** Zuu [~Zuu@c-f5f9e253.025-58-6e6b702.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #openttd 20:08:19 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1D5C3.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 20:08:46 *** yorick [~yorick@s55924da0.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has quit [Quit: Poef!] 20:12:59 *** theholyduck [~holyduck@ip-80-139-106-77.eidsiva.net] has quit [Quit: Forlater kanalen] 20:17:47 *** fonsinchen [~fonsinche@brln-4dbc186f.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:24:27 <andythenorth> frosch123: did your fields patch last night fix 'game blows up when industry is removed'? 20:25:28 *** ajmiles2 [~aj@78-86-188-187.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd 20:26:44 <frosch123> only partially 20:26:58 <andythenorth> not currently blowing up :) 20:27:03 <andythenorth> I can't find a way to make it so far 20:27:10 <frosch123> just use landinfo :p 20:27:16 <frosch123> or smallmap 20:27:29 <frosch123> well, smallmap crashes also when industry is not removed 20:27:30 <andythenorth> smallmap seems fine. landinfo is not :) 20:27:49 <frosch123> you need to switch to vegatation or owner map or so 20:28:53 <frosch123> however, you will have to wait some longer. the next weekend is a long weekend, but not for ottd :) 20:29:35 *** Pe1erT [PeterT2@c-76-19-171-79.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #openttd 20:30:10 <andythenorth> yup owner map blows up :) 20:30:13 <andythenorth> hmmm 20:30:31 <andythenorth> creating complex field layouts with var 43 is a no no 20:31:16 <frosch123> you cannot maintain any layout after the industry is removed, except you store it earlier in the animation state or so 20:31:38 <planetmaker> andythenorth: I decided to rather download inkscape :-P+ 20:31:38 <frosch123> however, you also have random bits :) 20:31:52 *** Pe1erT [PeterT2@c-76-19-171-79.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [] 20:32:18 *** ajmiles3 [~aj@78-86-188-187.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:32:21 <andythenorth> frosch123: random is fine......but clue for how to store in the animation state? 20:33:43 <frosch123> you have a animation trigger for the construction stage. you can then store some value as animation frame, which you can use as "persistant" storage if you do not need animations 20:34:14 *** Chrill [~chrischri@h-5-149.A212.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #openttd 20:34:36 <frosch123> e.g. check surrounding tiles for field dimensions and then store the relative position inside the field in the animation stage 20:35:19 <andythenorth> cunning 20:35:25 * andythenorth saves that info 20:35:25 <Chrill> Is there anyone here fluent in German? 20:35:32 <nighthawk_c_m> yepp 20:35:34 <andythenorth> the Germans probably are 20:35:36 <frosch123> but well, if you have a idea how to do layouts via the plant callback :) 20:35:48 <planetmaker> some are 20:35:49 <Chrill> Could you please be so kind to translate the following for me: "I have been living there since the age of 1" 20:35:56 <nighthawk_c_m> What do you need Chrill? 20:36:01 <Chrill> the above :P 20:36:08 <planetmaker> ich habe dort gewohnt seit ich eins bin 20:36:14 * andythenorth used to be able to do *that* much german :o 20:36:15 <planetmaker> or rather 20:36:19 <planetmaker> ich lebe dort seit ich eins bin 20:36:23 <frosch123> s/eins/ein Jahr alt/ 20:36:26 <nighthawk_c_m> Ich lebe hier seit meinem ersten Lebensjahr. 20:36:32 <Belugas> Chu icitte depuis qu 20:36:35 <Belugas> jai un an 20:37:19 <planetmaker> nighthawk_c_m: you wouldn't say that ;-) 20:37:32 <Chrill> Ich lebe dort seit ich ein Jahr alt bin ?? 20:37:33 <planetmaker> that's something I might write in a formal letter though 20:37:40 <planetmaker> ja 20:37:45 <Chrill> Thank you all :) 20:37:50 <frosch123> planetmaker: though it is nice that you stopped your multiple personalities 20:37:59 <planetmaker> hu? 20:38:05 <nighthawk_c_m> That would work too Chrill, my translation was formal, thats right planetmaker 20:38:11 <frosch123> "seit ich eins bin" :p 20:38:20 <planetmaker> hahaha :-) 20:39:08 <planetmaker> before I was at least three :-P Even Freud already knew that ;-) 20:39:40 *** theholyduck [~holyduck@77.106.155.114] has joined #openttd 20:46:55 *** Fixer [~uzver@91.202.128.79] has left #openttd [] 20:47:24 *** Fixer [~uzver@91.202.128.79] has joined #openttd 20:56:02 *** nighthawk_c_m [~nighthawk@pD9505F37.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 20:57:09 *** Uresu [~Wes@5aceb729.bb.sky.com] has joined #openttd 20:58:12 <frosch123> night 20:58:16 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-590ff5e2.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:03:18 <Belugas> nigth 21:03:23 <Rubidium> night Belugas 21:04:24 <Belugas> may the night be kind with you Rubidium 21:04:27 *** |Jeroen| [~jeroen@94-224-31-113.access.telenet.be] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:04:29 * Belugas is gone 21:09:55 <planetmaker> andythenorth: http://img.openttdcoop.org/images/genworld.png <-- not quite elaborate, but something like that 21:10:08 <planetmaker> the tabs could probably be mimiced by appropriate button handling 21:10:19 *** Adambean [AdamR@82.hosts.reece-eu.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:10:22 <andythenorth> yup 21:10:33 <andythenorth> planetmaker: stick around for 10mins, I'm working on something.... 21:10:47 <planetmaker> I'll be there another 10 minutes, yes 21:12:07 *** einKarl [~einKarl@95-89-121-65-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:13:30 <Rubidium> it's >640x480 :) 21:14:10 <planetmaker> it should be exactly 640x480 21:14:26 <Zuu> Its 641x485 21:14:38 *** Grelouk [~Grelouk@93.21.18.195] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:14:39 <planetmaker> but then it's a mockup only ;-). So inkscape saved the parts which overlap, too 21:15:18 <Zuu> Indeed, those extra pixels does hardly matter. 21:23:54 <planetmaker> http://img.openttdcoop.org/images/genworld2.png <-- still too big, but with the newgrf selection dialogue open 21:24:27 <Ammler> no "next" button? 21:24:39 <Ammler> how do you go forward? 21:24:51 <Zuu> Click at the tabs at the top? 21:24:58 <Ammler> that isn't logical 21:25:31 <Zuu> Depends on where you come from. 21:25:32 <Ammler> or obvious at least :-) 21:26:02 <Ammler> well, I know no "wizard" working that way, do you? 21:26:31 <Ammler> tabs might be fine to indicate where you are 21:26:32 <Zuu> Depends if you want to make it like a wizard or more like something with several tabs. 21:26:49 <Ammler> but then you need a button start game 21:26:54 <Ammler> on every tab 21:27:11 <Zuu> It's at the bottom, always vissible 21:27:28 <planetmaker> Ammler: clicking on tabs is quite logical to me 21:27:37 <Ammler> ah, "Generate World" is a button? 21:27:45 <planetmaker> but next and previous could go next to the generate button in the bottom 21:27:47 <Zuu> The tab-book widget would end not at the bottom but say 60 pixles up from the bottom of the window. 21:27:47 <planetmaker> yes 21:27:58 <Ammler> no, all fine then :-) 21:28:06 <andythenorth> planetmaker: http://tt-foundry.com/misc/game_setup_gui_2.png 21:28:18 <andythenorth> Ammler it's not a wizard 21:28:27 <andythenorth> it wizard is *really* annoying 21:28:29 <Ammler> andythenorth: yeah, I see now 21:29:26 *** Chillosophy [~fu@195-241-120-76.ip.telfort.nl] has quit [] 21:29:28 <andythenorth> planetmaker: in the design above....I would propose a future addition of 'more info' 21:29:38 <andythenorth> for each newgrf (with a popup window) 21:29:45 <planetmaker> hm, yes 21:30:27 <andythenorth> I am pushing the two list thing to see if it works 21:30:37 <andythenorth> (side by side lists I should say) 21:30:38 <planetmaker> andythenorth: IMHO in your mockup the tabs are not clearly enough visible as tabs 21:30:47 <andythenorth> nope they aren't very 'tab' 21:31:07 <andythenorth> I'm not happy with those. 21:31:08 <planetmaker> you may notice that I just used Alberth's newgrf GUI ;-) 21:31:16 <Ammler> dunno, if "tab" is openttdish 21:31:26 <Ammler> buttons looks nice 21:31:30 <Zuu> Old advanced settings dialog had it. 21:31:31 <planetmaker> my mockup rather targeted the gui as a whole with an inset for the others 21:31:35 *** Kurimus [Kurimus@dsl-tkubrasgw1-fe32dc00-253.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [] 21:31:51 <planetmaker> Ammler: it's a proven, easily recognizable GUI element 21:31:55 <planetmaker> and what Zuu says 21:32:02 <planetmaker> says? sais? 21:32:11 <Ammler> yes, those were buttons like andy made 21:32:12 <Zuu> Depending on if you by 'tab' refer to the kind of gui or making the tabs appear visually as tabs. 21:32:16 <andythenorth> I think on balance I like Alberth's newgrf gui....but tell me, when you have one list above the other, what do the buttons 'move up' and 'move down' imply? 21:32:40 <planetmaker> :-) 21:32:48 <andythenorth> and arrows don't help either :| 21:33:16 <andythenorth> As a newgrf author I like the big 'info' box in Alberth's design. More space for me :) 21:33:20 <andythenorth> to put words in :) 21:33:28 <planetmaker> andythenorth: I guess those 8 lines which you have in your mockup are quite sufficient in most cases, too 21:33:35 <planetmaker> hm.. or? 21:33:44 <planetmaker> or one just gives it a few lines more 21:33:44 <andythenorth> there are some missing 21:33:44 <Zuu> Especially if a parameter GUI is made. 21:33:56 <andythenorth> well the lists could be shorter 21:33:57 <Zuu> Then you don't have to explain them in words. 21:33:59 <andythenorth> it's scalable 21:34:17 *** theholyduck [~holyduck@77.106.155.114] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:34:17 <andythenorth> this is only 390px high right now 21:34:28 <andythenorth> and it will scale to quite a lot less than 480px 21:34:33 <andythenorth> wide 21:34:36 <planetmaker> andythenorth: then we have still some space :-) 21:34:52 *** theholyduck [~holyduck@77.106.155.114] has joined #openttd 21:35:04 <andythenorth> we need space 21:35:18 <andythenorth> the newgrf names in that mockup are the longest I could find 21:35:42 <planetmaker> yes, they probably are among the longest 21:35:54 <andythenorth> and there is room in the buttons for dutch etc 21:36:03 *** Uresu [~Wes@5aceb729.bb.sky.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:38:47 *** Yexo [~Yexo@183-88-ftth.onsneteindhoven.nl] has quit [Quit: bye] 21:39:02 *** Yexo [~Yexo@183-88-ftth.onsneteindhoven.nl] has joined #openttd 21:40:48 <planetmaker> should suffcie, yes 21:41:54 <andythenorth> I've moved the 'go' button to be centred and bigger....looks better 21:43:34 <Wolf01> 'night 21:43:37 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@host138-233-dynamic.15-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.] 21:45:57 <Zuu> andythenorth: Not sure if it is indented, but the online content button is missing as well as the reload button in your last mockup. 21:46:31 <andythenorth> oops 21:47:14 <Zuu> As well as the set parameters button. 21:47:25 <Zuu> and toggle pallete 21:47:49 <Zuu> Though if a parameter gui is made, the palette could be seen as a parameter and do not need a special button. 21:48:16 <andythenorth> I thought it looked nice and simple :) 21:48:22 <Zuu> Just as all AIs have the same setting in common (days to wait before the AI starts) 21:48:38 <Zuu> the same _first_ setting* 21:48:54 <Zuu> Hehe :-) 21:48:58 <andythenorth> online content is applicable across AIs, maps (heightmaps) and newgrfs? 21:49:28 <Zuu> Yep, it could be placed at the bottom but then you should probably link it to the online content dialog with all types enabled. 21:49:37 <andythenorth> hmm 21:50:07 <andythenorth> why do we still need reload? Why doesn't reload happen when I open this tab? 21:50:14 <andythenorth> or is there a good optimisation reason? 21:50:21 <Zuu> Or make that a hidden ctrl feature and by default only show the types related to the current tab. 21:50:54 <Yexo> andythenorth: because a reload takes time, I don't want openttd to rescan all newgrfs when I open a different tab on the newgame window 21:50:58 *** KouDy [~KouDy@rb5ck203.net.upc.cz] has quit [Quit: HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <- Organize your IRC] 21:51:09 <andythenorth> that's a good reason 21:51:20 <Yexo> I really like your latest mockup :) 21:51:37 <Zuu> You could have a reload icon similar to a browser at the top right corner of the left panel. 21:51:51 <Terkhen> good night 21:52:04 <andythenorth> Yexo: you like it because it's simple :P I missed off most of the buttons 21:52:10 <andythenorth> good night Terkhen 21:52:15 <Zuu> night Terkhen 21:52:29 <Yexo> night Terkhen 21:52:35 <Yexo> andythenorth: maybe :) 21:53:12 *** pugi [~pugi@p4FCC77C1.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: ALL YOUR BASE ARE BELONG TO US!] 21:54:17 <andythenorth> 640px in dutch with two lists becomes challenging :) 21:54:56 * andythenorth has an idea 21:55:18 <andythenorth> current window has 'parameters' and 'set parameters' 21:55:27 <andythenorth> also 'palette' and 'toggle palette' 21:55:39 * andythenorth sees a simplification 21:56:06 <planetmaker> small arrows next to the "palette" word? ;-) 21:56:10 <andythenorth> yup 21:56:13 <andythenorth> like advanced settings 21:56:37 <andythenorth> and there must be something we can do for parameters 21:57:13 <Zuu> For parameters, take a look on how it works for NoAI. But I guess you've seen that dialog :-) 21:58:08 <Zuu> I guess you need in the grf spec to name the settings and give them upper/lower limits. 21:58:29 <andythenorth> Zuu we might need a whole load of stuff to do with strings and bit maps 21:59:05 <andythenorth> but for now I'd be happy to just have a 'set parameters' button in a convenient place 21:59:10 <Zuu> Initially we can leave the parameter guis as they are right now. 21:59:15 <andythenorth> exactly 21:59:33 <Zuu> Having them in a separate window later will probably be okay. 21:59:44 <Zuu> Or it can be integrated at a later point. 22:00:02 <Yexo> Zuu: http://devs.openttd.org/~frosch/texts/StaticGRFInfo.txt <- newgrf spec for extra information about the parameters 22:00:16 <andythenorth> there's no layout that will fit everyone's wishes into <640px :) 22:00:25 <andythenorth> so a separate window for parameters is fine 22:00:50 <andythenorth> nothing wrong with separate windows :) It's the flow through them that matters :o 22:00:55 <Zuu> And for reference (obviously not for you Yexo, but maybe for andy) here is how the parameters work in NoAI: http://wiki.openttd.org/AI:AIInfo#Settings 22:01:42 *** JostVice [~jostvice@85.136.129.22.dyn.user.ono.com] has left #openttd [] 22:02:25 <Zuu> In this case I even think it could be good to have a separte window for settings/parameters of NewGRFs/AIs. 22:03:25 <Yexo> I agree, showing the active / available AIs in one window would be nice (same as the new newgrf gui) 22:03:50 <Zuu> Perhaps make the "make active" button double-height and add the parameters button adove/below "make inactive"? 22:04:12 *** theholyduck [~holyduck@77.106.155.114] has quit [Quit: Forlater kanalen] 22:06:19 <Zuu> Also nice to have a consistant gui between newgrfs and ais. Though there will be some minor differences. Such as being able to add multiple AIs of the same kind. But those are still small enough that it doesn't stop the posibility to use fairly similar guis. 22:06:59 <planetmaker> good night for now 22:09:20 *** bryjen [~bryjen@63.147.94.149] has quit [Quit: Quit] 22:11:30 *** devilsadvocate [~devilsadv@202.3.77.231] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:14:05 <Eddi|zuHause> <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: you requested a large info panel for newgrfs <-- no... i mean yes, but that's not what i meant. i meant in the newgrf forum the bit about determining the quadrant 22:14:49 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: have I missed a message from you somewhere? 22:15:19 <Eddi|zuHause> maybe... 22:16:13 <Eddi|zuHause> i thought you were replying to this: <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: i wrote a reply on the forum, hope it's helpful... 22:16:18 <andythenorth> it was helpful thanks 22:16:46 *** Chrill [~chrischri@h-5-149.A212.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [] 22:22:06 *** Brianetta [~brian@188-220-91-30.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd 22:31:05 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1D5C3.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:31:24 <andythenorth> meh 22:31:28 <andythenorth> too many buttons :P 22:34:38 <andythenorth> why don't AIs have to be reloaded? 22:34:45 <andythenorth> sorry, rescanned 22:36:01 <andythenorth> hmm 22:36:05 <andythenorth> good night 22:36:28 *** Zuu [~Zuu@c-f5f9e253.025-58-6e6b702.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:41:19 <Yexo> andythenorth: AIs also need to be rescanned if you put a new AI in the ai/ directory 22:41:26 <andythenorth> hmmm 22:41:33 <Yexo> it could be there is currently no button for that in the gui, but there is a commandline function IIRC 22:41:36 <andythenorth> where is the button for that? 22:42:07 * andythenorth wonders if rescan button can be deprecated 22:42:08 <Yexo> AIs are rescanned automatically after downloading some via the online content, and also every time a game is started/loaded 22:42:10 <Eddi|zuHause> the key above tab opens the command line 22:42:55 <andythenorth> the 'rescan' button seems like one button too many 22:43:02 <andythenorth> although I do actually make use of it often 22:43:30 <Yexo> why do you use it? 22:44:12 <andythenorth> hmmm not sure 22:44:39 <andythenorth> occasionally I manually add or delete a newgrf 22:44:52 <Yexo> it's a useless button imo, the only case you need it if you manually put some grf in the data directory and want to use it without restarting openttd 22:45:02 <Yexo> but then there is a console command for it 22:45:18 <andythenorth> is there one now? Does reload_newgrfs also rescan? 22:45:29 <Yexo> isn't there? 22:45:52 <andythenorth> not sure right now 22:46:04 <Yexo> apparently not 22:46:10 <andythenorth> ho hum 22:46:38 <andythenorth> http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=48324&p=876391#p876391 22:47:18 <PeterT> andythenorth: looks nice 22:47:24 <PeterT> color change <3 22:47:29 <andythenorth> I would like to eliminate the rescan button, and I think the buttons for setting newgrf palette / parameters are confusing 22:47:37 <andythenorth> one button 'configure newgrf' would be better 22:47:46 <Yexo> what about adding a scrollbar for the info panel for those newgrfs with a lot of text? 22:47:58 <andythenorth> can't have three vertical scrollbars in a window 22:48:09 <andythenorth> but otherwise....yes :) 22:48:25 <Yexo> something for alberth to work on support for that :) 22:48:45 <andythenorth> how often does the palette need to be switched? 22:48:53 <andythenorth> I've never done it 22:49:31 <Yexo> only if you use base graphics with a windows palette and a newgrf with the dos palette (or the other way around) 22:53:48 *** DDR [~chatzilla@d99-199-13-89.bchsia.telus.net] has joined #openttd 22:57:55 *** Coco-Banana-Man [~Stephan.D@p5B2DBD24.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Regel Nr. 1: Jeder hört auf mein Kommando! - Regel Nr. 2: Jeder bleibt auf dem Weg! - Regel Nr. 3: ... ... Der, der blÀht, als hinterster geht!] 23:00:13 *** Chruker [~no@port113.ds1-vj.adsl.cybercity.dk] has quit [] 23:05:02 *** tokai [~tokai@port-92-195-216-120.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:05:36 *** heffer [~felix@static-87-78-98-150.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: heffer] 23:07:15 *** tokai [~tokai@port-92-195-23-143.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #openttd 23:07:18 *** mode/#openttd [+v tokai] by ChanServ 23:07:55 <Eddi|zuHause> #Wir sind die Saunafreunde Aufguss 09, der erste deutsche Spitzen Schwitz Verein 23:07:57 <Eddi|zuHause> # Wenn wir in uns'rer spitze Klitsche, auf der glitsche Pritsche schwitzen 23:07:58 <Eddi|zuHause> # Schwitze Schweià verspritzen, dabei zwetschge SchnÀpse zwitschern 23:08:00 <Eddi|zuHause> # Muss man beschwipste Schwitzer schonmal bisschen stÃŒtzen 23:10:34 *** ptr_ [~peter@c213-89-142-224.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Quit: Zzzzzz] 23:10:51 <Eddi|zuHause> [try singing that outloud :p] 23:11:54 <__ln__> Deutschland hat leider in Eishockey heute verloren. 23:12:15 <Eddi|zuHause> i heard, but i had no idea we even played ice hockey :) 23:13:37 <Eddi|zuHause> i'm sure you can find youtube videos about "Aufguss 09" [JÃŒrgen von der Lippe]... 23:22:24 *** last_evolution [~last_evol@r5ba58.net.upc.cz] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:25:16 *** DDR [~chatzilla@d99-199-13-89.bchsia.telus.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:27:08 *** oskari89 [~oskari89@212-149-205-119.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:28:49 *** Polygon [~Poly@x0581b.wh7.tu-dresden.de] has quit [Quit: Flieht, ihr Narren!] 23:31:17 *** kuer [~kuer@chello089077209009.chello.pl] has joined #openttd 23:43:12 *** KritiK [~Maxim@95-27-143-4.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:51:38 *** JVassie [~James@nelocat2.gotadsl.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:52:22 *** OwenS [~oshepherd@cpc1-stkn14-2-0-cust562.11-2.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:53:48 *** Jolteon [~Jolt@ip04.rdlbnc.com] has quit [Quit: USERNAME RDL1 ATTEMPTED TO ACCESS A FORBIDDEN AREA. rdlBNC Security Shutdown.] 23:54:32 *** Jolteon [~Jolt@64.120.25.179] has joined #openttd 23:55:54 *** Jolteon [~Jolt@64.120.25.179] has quit [] 23:57:32 *** Jolteon [~Jolt@64.120.25.174] has joined #openttd 23:58:26 *** Jolteon [~Jolt@64.120.25.174] has quit [] 23:58:32 *** Jolteon [~Jolt@ip04.rdlbnc.com] has joined #openttd