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00:00:26 <Ammler> http://pastebin.com/wmXssNjX <-- this compiles, but is it correct? 00:01:19 <Rubidium> can't say 00:01:46 <glx> probably not 00:01:49 <Rubidium> although I fear it's not 00:01:59 <glx> at least the return true is wrong for me 00:02:14 <Ammler> yes, might need false 00:02:17 *** heffer [~felix@static-87-78-98-150.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: heffer] 00:02:21 <glx> you really should check r20145 00:02:21 <Ammler> and a return true in the if clause 00:03:28 <glx> smallmap_gui.cpp is the better example I think 00:09:41 <Wolf01> [01:45:10] <Rubidium> too bad OpenTTD uses GPL... now we can't limit OpenTTD usage for people that have an IQ of more than say 100 <- too bad for you I could continue to use it: 126 IQ :P 00:11:39 <Wolf01> oh, finally I found a good made pepakura for the IronMan model :D 00:12:51 <Wolf01> tomorrow I'll study it, then I'll try to build the helmet 00:13:33 <Wolf01> 'night all, see you and don't dream bad things 00:13:44 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@host197-232-dynamic.9-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.] 00:26:56 *** fjb [~frank@p5485FEE5.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:31:43 <Ammler> good night :-) 00:36:19 *** clum [clum@92.6.89.75] has quit [] 00:39:48 *** duckblaster [~duckblast@202-65-55-245.xdsl.net.oyster.net.ck] has joined #openttd 00:40:05 *** Fuco [~dota.keys@188.123.106.105] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 00:40:18 *** KenjiE20 [~KenjiE20@92.9.42.146] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.2] 00:46:15 *** Zuu [~Zuu@c-86fae253.025-58-6e6b702.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 00:53:35 *** lugo [~lugo@mgdb-4db8df22.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:05:35 *** Sacro [~ben@adsl-87-102-20-80.karoo.KCOM.COM] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 01:14:43 <ccfreak2k> I have an IQ of 145. I guess I can't use it. 01:14:54 <ccfreak2k> Unless Rubi meant limit usage TO IQ of xyz. 01:33:51 *** Zahl [~Zahl@2a01:198:5c1:0:7914:4279:2394:7b91] has quit [Quit: *schiel*] 02:00:28 *** oniik [~Alexander@171.85-200-14.bkkb.no] has left #openttd [Leaving.] 02:17:48 *** Jhs [~Jhs4@188.113.85.20] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:18:10 *** Wizzleby [~wizzleby@pool-108-2-21-69.phlapa.east.verizon.net] has joined #openttd 02:18:55 *** Frankr [~chatzilla@cpc3-pres13-2-0-cust333.pres.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 02:22:24 *** Lakie [~Lakie@91.84.251.149] has quit [Quit: Sleep.] 02:26:15 *** rhaeder [~quix0r@dslb-094-220-136-195.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd 02:28:02 *** George [~George@212.113.107.39] has joined #openttd 02:28:36 *** George is now known as Guest3260 02:31:27 *** rhaeder1 [~quix0r@dslb-094-221-148-170.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 02:37:43 *** ajmiles [~aj@78-86-188-187.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:39:13 *** glx [glx@2a01:e35:2f59:c7c0:b04e:fef9:45a:2d0a] has quit [Quit: bye] 02:47:54 *** a1270 [~Cheese@72-24-233-98.cpe.cableone.net] has quit [Quit: a1270] 02:50:16 *** ecke [~ecke@188.75.128.2] has quit [Quit: more listen, more understand, more know] 02:53:06 *** Pikka [~chatzilla@c122-108-245-233.kelvn3.qld.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.6/20100625231939]] 03:53:29 *** theholyduck [~holyduck@77.106.153.176] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 04:30:32 *** Pikka [~chatzilla@c122-108-245-233.kelvn3.qld.optusnet.com.au] has joined #openttd 04:42:42 <andythenorth> hai hai Pikka 04:42:51 <andythenorth> what strange hours 04:42:55 <Pikka> bonjour 04:43:02 <Pikka> 2:42pm is a strange hour? 04:43:08 <andythenorth> the strangest 04:43:22 <Pikka> what about half past cucumber? 04:44:04 <andythenorth> even more strangest 04:44:19 <andythenorth> ostlandr has suggested we create a british RV set 04:44:28 <ccfreak2k> What about 5 minutes 'till 10 minutes 'till half past the first hour of the first Saturday of the fourth month with a prime number? 04:44:44 *** Guest3260 [~George@212.113.107.39] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 04:45:06 <Pikka> sounds like a good idea 04:45:07 <andythenorth> how about we shift the time to hex? base 12 is stupid anyway 04:46:29 <Pikka> sounds like god save the queen to me 04:46:42 * andythenorth thinks about doing a draw 04:46:52 * Pikka thinks about drawing a do 04:47:06 * ccfreak2k draws about thinking a do 04:47:43 * Pikka does think about a drawing 04:48:20 * ccfreak2k a about doing draw thinks 04:49:06 * Pikka wouldn't be surprised 04:50:06 <andythenorth> the fertiliser wagon I drew for UKRS is too long 04:50:19 <andythenorth> but I don't want to change it 04:50:48 <ccfreak2k> A veritable crap car. 04:56:04 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B75179.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [] 04:56:24 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B7598E.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 05:04:35 * andythenorth redraws fertiliser van 05:04:37 <andythenorth> :P 05:05:45 <Pikka> too longggggggggg 05:06:04 <Pikka> UKRS2 cars are 1 pixel overlength in the horizontal views, btw 05:06:08 <Pikka> so the couplers overlap 05:08:49 <andythenorth> ok 05:09:05 <andythenorth> Pikka: I'm drawing over your existing vehicles, so should be ok? 05:09:24 <Pikka> righto 05:10:11 <Pikka> put them on the templates when you're done, for ease of coding, though :P with the extra pixel to the right. 05:11:57 <andythenorth> that explains why they're 33px wide, thought that was odd 05:15:26 * andythenorth photostrop 05:15:42 <andythenorth> photostrop ends 05:18:19 <andythenorth> hmm 05:21:08 *** naywhayare [~ryan@spoon.lugatgt.org] has joined #openttd 05:23:58 <naywhayare> hello, I find that openttd is unplayable due to lag 05:24:20 <naywhayare> I am using the 32bpp-fullzoom patch, at 1920x1200 (although resolution does not seem to affect the issue) on a 2048x2048 map 05:24:50 <naywhayare> I suspect that perhaps this could be caused by the several different farmland tiles constantly being changed all over the map 05:25:09 <naywhayare> and was wondering if there is a way to turn that off (I also find it slightly annoying and distracting) 05:29:59 <planetmaker> turn of full animation 05:30:06 <planetmaker> *off 05:30:16 <planetmaker> and full detail level, too 05:30:54 <planetmaker> and you'll find that playing smaller maps is just as fine 05:30:56 <planetmaker> :-P 05:32:26 <naywhayare> actually I just tried the smaller maps and noticed the issue there too 05:32:30 <naywhayare> I'll try turning off full animation 05:32:51 <naywhayare> but I'm running this on a core 2 duo with properly configured video drivers, so it struck me as a little odd 05:35:58 <planetmaker> neither the number of cores nor your video card is interesting here. Only the single core speed of your CPU 05:36:51 *** vici [~vici@mnch-5d872ec3.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 05:36:56 *** vici is now known as Celestar 05:38:43 <andythenorth> planetmaker: I am setting up a new repo on devzone, what should the Root Directory be? 05:39:37 <Celestar> heya 05:40:47 <naywhayare> yes, of course. but still, one core of the core 2 duo should be perfectly capable of this 05:40:48 <planetmaker> heya Celestar 05:41:01 <planetmaker> andythenorth: uhm... root dir? 05:41:06 <Celestar> why doesn't the music autostart when enabled? is there some openttd.cfg thingy or do I have to code it? 05:41:27 <andythenorth> planetmaker: thanks 05:41:29 <planetmaker> volume down? 05:41:32 <andythenorth> Pikka: these: http://gallery6801.fotopic.net/c608252.html 05:41:43 <planetmaker> andythenorth: no, I mean... where do you select the dir? 05:41:51 <andythenorth> colours: grey + orange, 1CC + orange, or grey + 2cc? 05:42:51 <andythenorth> planetmaker: http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/ukrs2-addons/settings/repository 05:44:02 <planetmaker> hm, that's no URL what has to go there. It's the hard disc path. 05:44:40 <planetmaker> /home/ottdc/hg-repos/ukrs2-addons 05:45:04 <Pikka> andy: CC would be nice. :P grey and 2cc or 1cc + 2cc... ;] or both... or all three. :) 05:45:33 <planetmaker> trains w/o CC make it easier in MP environments :-) 05:46:52 *** theholyduck [~holyduck@ip-231-138-106-77.eidsiva.net] has joined #openttd 05:47:37 <planetmaker> s/w\/o/with/ 05:47:45 <planetmaker> *with of course :-) 05:51:18 *** naywhayare [~ryan@spoon.lugatgt.org] has left #openttd [] 05:51:34 <andythenorth> planetmaker: http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/ukrs2-addons/repository 05:58:54 <Pikka> how perrrrrrrrrculiarrrrrrrrr 06:29:05 <andythenorth> yay 06:29:06 <andythenorth> Pikka: http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/ukrs2-addons/repository 06:29:18 <andythenorth> ^ saves you going through the forum thread 06:29:28 <ccfreak2k> I would be nice? 06:29:28 <andythenorth> (if you wish) 06:31:48 *** APTX [~APTX@chello089076052083.chello.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 06:37:04 *** ^Spike^ [~spike@d200003.upc-d.chello.nl] has joined #openttd 06:47:40 *** Alberth [~hat@a82-95-164-127.adsl.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 07:05:00 *** bryjen [~bryjen@75.81.201.131] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 07:08:28 <andythenorth> planetmaker: resp. FIRS behaviour....I had planned a 'classic' option 07:08:28 <andythenorth> http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/1028 07:08:45 <andythenorth> I put a line through it as I thought it was too complex 07:10:18 *** Zuu [~Zuu@c-86fae253.025-58-6e6b702.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #openttd 07:12:28 <Terkhen> good morning 07:14:39 <Pikka> good morning and goodbye! 07:14:43 *** Pikka [~chatzilla@c122-108-245-233.kelvn3.qld.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.6/20100625231939]] 07:15:02 <Zuu> good morning 07:18:32 <__ln__> good fortnight 07:20:37 *** Celestar [~vici@mnch-5d872ec3.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 07:25:01 * Zuu looks up fortnight in a dictionary - interesting.. 07:31:04 *** JVassie [~James@nelocat2.gotadsl.co.uk] has joined #openttd 07:31:26 <planetmaker> moin Terkhen, __ln__ and Zuu 07:31:58 <planetmaker> andythenorth: would it really be too complex? I didn't look closer at it... wouldn't it just mean to use the industry's default behaviour as if nothing would be defined? 07:35:30 <andythenorth> planetmaker: the implementation would be relatively trivial, it's probably just a varact 2 in one template 07:35:41 <andythenorth> but testing is harder (and I have to do most of the testing) :P 07:35:50 <andythenorth> also bug reports considerably more complex no? 07:36:06 <planetmaker> well. The latter possibly 07:36:35 <planetmaker> But from what / how I followed discussion about the current game on our PS (it is still the FIRS one), people would prefer a simpler mechanism 07:36:47 <andythenorth> I have no objection to it... 07:36:52 <andythenorth> also the industry window strings for every primary industry will have to be duplicated or concatenated 07:37:02 <planetmaker> hm 07:37:13 <andythenorth> If you want to implement it, feel free (but I'm away this weekend) :) 07:37:17 <andythenorth> or we can do it later in the year 07:37:19 <planetmaker> it'd be relatively easy for me to sneak in another testing game 07:37:27 <planetmaker> I won't do anything for the next 3 weeks 07:37:33 <planetmaker> Don't even expect replies ;-) 07:37:37 <planetmaker> though they might come 07:37:51 <planetmaker> they are not guaranteed 07:38:28 <andythenorth> planetmaker: the other issue would be whether to eliminate supplies entirely 07:38:37 <andythenorth> that would be simpler to code 07:38:44 <andythenorth> but would create chaos in the cargo chains 07:39:58 <planetmaker> hm. would it? 07:41:27 <planetmaker> actually it *would* be nice, if one really had a simple industry extension / replacement without a difficulty increase 07:42:07 <andythenorth> removing the Machine Shop etc. looks simple, but it would unbalance the game 07:42:17 <andythenorth> and for every economy we want to create, there would be two versions 07:42:22 <andythenorth> complexity == bad 07:43:11 <planetmaker> andythenorth: couldn't that be part of the economy? 07:43:27 <andythenorth> yes 07:43:36 <andythenorth> one option is to make this part of FIRS 'basic' 07:43:45 <andythenorth> it bleeds the concept of an economy though 07:43:53 <andythenorth> bleeds / blurs 07:45:29 <planetmaker> well. It extends the definition of economy as we implemented it now 07:45:51 <planetmaker> otoh it could just as well be another parameter. 07:46:00 <andythenorth> I think it would work better as an economy 07:46:34 <planetmaker> I'd "just" have it then remove the supply cargos and possibly some industries which make sense only in a supply context 07:49:00 <planetmaker> I should come up with a way to combine nfo and NML programming 07:49:05 <planetmaker> transitionally so to speak 07:49:40 <planetmaker> I find the FIRS code in nfo meanwhile complex and big enough that I don't find my way around without investing at least a whole half day on it. 07:50:10 <planetmaker> except for the simplest things like defining user-exposed parameters and translating them into internal ones 07:51:16 <planetmaker> I can stare for dozens of minutes at a single industry and only with much referencing I'll understand what it does when. And then hours are gone 07:51:33 <planetmaker> :-( 07:52:28 <andythenorth> :P 07:53:41 <planetmaker> I know the grammar but not the vocabulary of industry nfo 07:53:48 <andythenorth> planetmaker: I propose to create maybe two basic economies anyway 07:53:58 <planetmaker> as such it becomes very tedious to look up every property, callback and varaction 07:54:28 <planetmaker> and nfo doesn't make it easy to distinguish grammar from vocabulary 07:55:57 *** mode/#openttd [+v orudge] by ChanServ 07:55:57 *** mode/#openttd [+v Belugas] by ChanServ 07:55:57 *** mode/#openttd [+v DorpsGek] by ChanServ 07:56:00 *** mode/#openttd [+v peter1138] by ChanServ 07:58:09 <andythenorth> planetmaker: if 'basic' doesn't feature supplies, it also helpfully removes some cargos and industries, so it aids simplicity for the player :) 07:58:20 <andythenorth> but adds complexity for the coder :o 07:58:35 <andythenorth> not too much complexity though 07:59:39 <planetmaker> yes... playing simplicity doesn't mean code simplicity. Rather the contrary often 08:01:14 * andythenorth afk for the weekend 08:01:16 <andythenorth> bye 08:03:01 *** Illegal_Alien [~Illegal_A@ip4da39612.direct-adsl.nl] has joined #openttd 08:09:14 <planetmaker> enjoy, andythenorth 08:31:17 *** Fast2 [~Fast2@p57AF8E41.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 08:40:43 *** Kurimus [Kurimus@dsl-tkubrasgw1-fe34dc00-202.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #openttd 08:43:21 *** Chris_Booth [~chatzilla@client-86-25-5-181.oxfd.adsl.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 08:51:50 *** Chris_Booth [~chatzilla@client-86-25-5-181.oxfd.adsl.virginmedia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 09:06:54 *** duckblaster [~duckblast@202-65-55-245.xdsl.net.oyster.net.ck] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 09:11:30 *** Strid [~Strid@c-fe85e555.013-46-6c6b7013.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 09:16:58 *** fjb [~frank@p5485CC49.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 09:18:30 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@host197-232-dynamic.9-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #openttd 09:18:56 <Wolf01> hello 09:19:11 *** Strid [~Strid@c-fe85e555.013-46-6c6b7013.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #openttd 09:23:09 <fjb> Moin. 09:24:51 <Mazur> Good moaning. 09:28:09 *** lugo [~lugo@mgdb-4db8da68.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 09:39:25 *** oniik [~Alexander@171.85-200-14.bkkb.no] has joined #openttd 09:50:03 *** perk11 [~perk11@85.175.121.141] has joined #openttd 09:51:23 *** George [~George@212.113.107.39] has joined #openttd 09:51:53 *** George is now known as Guest12 09:52:22 *** perk11 [~perk11@85.175.121.141] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:53:36 *** perk11 [~perk11@85.175.121.141] has joined #openttd 09:58:21 *** Singaporekid [~notme@cm82.epsilon84.maxonline.com.sg] has joined #openttd 10:03:40 *** theholyduck [~holyduck@ip-231-138-106-77.eidsiva.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 10:07:06 *** Sacro [~ben@adsl-87-102-20-80.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd 10:07:16 *** perk111 [~perk11@85.175.121.141] has joined #openttd 10:09:39 *** perk11 [~perk11@85.175.121.141] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 10:15:58 *** perk111 [~perk11@85.175.121.141] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:17:12 *** perk11 [~perk11@85.175.121.141] has joined #openttd 10:20:17 *** KenjiE20 [~KenjiE20@92.9.42.146] has joined #openttd 10:26:12 *** Zahl [~Zahl@2a01:198:5c1:0:d16:aadb:e67b:596f] has joined #openttd 10:35:07 *** dfox [~dfox@r6l51.net.upc.cz] has joined #openttd 10:51:42 *** clum [clum@92.7.30.78] has joined #openttd 10:52:50 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-590f5f47.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 10:57:15 <frosch123> andythenorth: " OpenTTD does not set a default value for TE." <- what makes you think so? 11:04:21 *** tdev [~udev@p508ECEAE.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 11:07:20 <Terkhen> IIRC it is set only for road vehicles 11:07:32 *** De_Ghosty [~s@69-165-155-23.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:09:01 <frosch123> it is set for all default trains 11:09:15 <frosch123> for trains above the default ids you have to set all properties anyway 11:10:05 <Terkhen> yeah, I meant that, for RVs, the default value of TE is used for NewGRF vehicles if the TE value is not set or is zero 11:11:38 <frosch123> #define RVI(a, b, c, d, e, f, g, h, i, j, k) { a, b, c, {j}, d, e, f, g, h, k, i, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 76, 0 } <- i see a 76 default 11:11:56 *** lobster [~michielbi@86.89.201.189] has joined #openttd 11:12:44 <frosch123> hmm @ fs#3957 11:16:28 <Terkhen> http://vcs.openttd.org/svn/browser/trunk/src/engine.cpp#L85 11:16:39 *** ajmiles [~aj@78-86-188-187.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd 11:17:09 <frosch123> yes, that is because TE was added for RV after enginepool 11:17:21 <frosch123> but we were talking about trains :) 11:18:15 <Terkhen> I see... I thought it was about trains after engine pool 11:18:55 <frosch123> nevertheless we might generally want to supply some defaults for engine pool engines 11:19:28 <Terkhen> hmmm... there was an argument about not doing this for trains too, but I don't remember it 11:20:51 *** Fast2 [~Fast2@p57AF8E41.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:32:46 *** theholyduck [~holyduck@77.106.157.227] has joined #openttd 11:39:53 *** fonsinchen [~fonsinche@brln-4dbabcc6.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 11:45:56 *** nfc [~nfc@cable-hvk-fe7ede00-156.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:46:33 <CIA-9> OpenTTD: rubidium * r20168 /branches/1.0/ (13 files in 4 dirs): 11:46:33 <CIA-9> OpenTTD: [1.0] -Backport from trunk: 11:46:33 <CIA-9> OpenTTD: - Fix: Do not scan /data and ~/data (if they happen to be your working directory). If it's the directory where your binary is located it will still scan them [FS#3949] (r20166) 11:46:33 <CIA-9> OpenTTD: - Fix: Integer comparison failed in case the difference was more than "MAX_UINT"/2 [FS#3954] (r20162) 11:46:34 <CIA-9> OpenTTD: - Fix: [YAPP] Converting a one-way block to a path signal with trains on both sides could lead to a train crash [FS#3937] (r20156) 11:46:34 <CIA-9> OpenTTD: - Fix: [NewGRF] Improve handling of snowing of railtypes and (infra)structures on foundations [FS#3883] (r20153, r20132, r20126, r20125) 11:48:02 *** nfc [~nfc@cable-hvk-fe7ede00-156.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #openttd 11:52:56 *** Fast2 [~Fast2@p57AF8E41.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 12:04:53 *** yorick [~yorick@ip51cd0513.speed.planet.nl] has joined #openttd 12:06:07 *** KritiK [~Maxim@95-26-130-136.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #openttd 12:13:08 <Eddi|zuHause> http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=889671#p889671 <-- some people really can't take "no" for an answer... 12:14:12 <fonsinchen> I also see that as a problem. But I won't rework the whole settings menu just to allow for those additional settings. 12:16:11 <Rubidium> maybe suggest him to change the code to perform in the way he wants it to perform. That's definitely the best way of configuring it 12:18:19 <Eddi|zuHause> fonsinchen: i completely agree 12:18:48 <Eddi|zuHause> it's kind of a problem, but it doesn't have a sensible workaround, so it should stay like it is 12:19:36 <frosch123> bridges are stupid 12:20:07 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, they are 12:20:24 <Eddi|zuHause> neither do they have custom bridgeheads, nor can they run diagonal! 12:20:37 <frosch123> the snowness of the tile should be consistent with surrounding tiles, the snow of the rail should be consistent with surrounding rail 12:20:55 <fonsinchen> I could also have a few extra pairs of settings where in one setting you can choose the cargo class and in the other one you choose the distribution type. 12:20:58 <frosch123> but that results in different showlevels for the groundtile and the railoverlay 12:21:06 <frosch123> what snowyness should the ramp get? 12:21:20 <fonsinchen> Then I could get rid of the ARMOURED and EXPRESS settings instead. 12:21:38 <fonsinchen> Maybe that's the way to go ... 12:22:25 <frosch123> cargoclasses are not exclusive 12:22:40 <frosch123> what happens to cargo which is both armoured and express? 12:23:03 <fonsinchen> the topmost setting for that cargo is preferred then. 12:23:53 <Eddi|zuHause> didn't someone suggest a prisoner cargo? :p 12:24:12 <frosch123> yes, and thouse prisoner should get delivered to mines... 12:25:09 <Eddi|zuHause> and a CASTOR cargo... appears once every few years, and constantly "breaks down" due to protesters stopping the train :p 12:26:59 <oniik> did someone mention diagonal bridges? yes please! 12:27:40 <Zuu> sure, go ahead and implement them. :-D 12:28:10 <fonsinchen> are grf-defined cargo classes required to be consecutively numbered? - Starting at 0 with no "holes", just like the prefined cargos in cargo_type.h? 12:28:24 <fonsinchen> s/cargo classes/cargos/ 12:28:45 <Rubidium> and when you're at it... corners, junctions and height changes in bridges... and do the same for tunnels 12:29:23 <fonsinchen> They probably aren't ... 12:29:52 <frosch123> fonsinchen: there no "grf defined" cargo classes 12:30:04 <frosch123> they are a global agreement of grf authors 12:31:14 <fonsinchen> I meant cargos, not cargo classes. Sorry for the confusion. 12:31:38 <frosch123> ah, no cargos are not consecutive 12:32:12 <fonsinchen> The problem with using cargo classes as discriminator for distribution type is that they only tell something about the "packaging" of cargo, not about the actual content. 12:32:31 <fonsinchen> In some cases the content can be inferred from the packaging, in other cases it can't. 12:33:34 <frosch123> well, then you need to incremenally collect all cargotypes, and always display those currently available 12:33:51 *** glx [glx@2a01:e35:2f59:c7c0:8531:4c2:129b:310e] has joined #openttd 12:33:54 *** mode/#openttd [+v glx] by ChanServ 12:33:59 <fonsinchen> But I can't dynamically change the number of settings in the menu. 12:34:02 <frosch123> though that is likely very difficult to configure from not in-game, ie.e. main menu 12:34:07 <fonsinchen> Not without huge changes. 12:34:40 <frosch123> fonsinchen: well, you do not even know the available cargos before starting the game :p 12:35:00 <fonsinchen> true, but I can just show the default cargos in the main menu. 12:35:38 <frosch123> does not sound very useful 12:36:03 <fonsinchen> You can change the distribution types during game 12:36:13 *** pugi [~pugi@p4FCC4C0C.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 12:38:10 <fonsinchen> Maybe it's good to have a default distribution type and a few overrides based on cargo classes as well as a few overrides based on cargos. 12:38:24 <fonsinchen> Like 3 for each. 12:39:19 <fonsinchen> that will be 7 settings. Should be OK. 12:39:31 <fonsinchen> actually 13 12:39:34 <fonsinchen> hrm 12:41:10 <planetmaker> that's a lot :-) 12:41:20 <fonsinchen> however that's only one setting more than listing all the default cargos and you can do most of the stuff you could do with a full listing. 12:46:25 *** Sacro [~ben@adsl-87-102-20-80.karoo.KCOM.COM] has quit [Quit: Sacro] 12:48:14 <frosch123> why does exploring trivial bugs always result in a dozen more bugs... :s 13:02:15 <Ammler> newgrf_developer_tools rocks :-) 13:04:24 <Zuu> and the ai dev tools as well :-) 13:04:44 * Zuu thinks there sholud be a Ctrl + Alt + D that brings up dev-add-on options 13:07:04 <Ammler> zuu, did you notice my "little" feature request for sign filter? 13:07:50 *** ctibor [~quassel@77.48.228.43] has joined #openttd 13:07:58 <Zuu> Yep, and I even replyed to it :-) 13:08:48 <Ammler> ok, fine 13:09:12 <Zuu> Did you know about the 'f' shortcut? 13:09:23 *** APTX [~APTX@chello089076052083.chello.pl] has joined #openttd 13:09:35 <Ammler> no, you might be right 13:10:39 <Zuu> I've supplied a patch for a standard way of focusing edit boxes in the entire OpenTTD but got the reply that there aren't that many edit boxes yet, so instead I/we need to get in more edit boxes before they'll consider patches that uniform focusing of edit boxes via keyboard. 13:11:48 <Ammler> I don't use shortcuts in general 13:12:06 <Ammler> I just noticed it because I updated ctrl-l 13:12:41 <Zuu> My idea is that when you chat you are already on the keyboard so then you could do Ctrl + l and then f and then type your filter string. 13:13:10 <Zuu> Then possible use the arrow keys and hit enter to go to the sign. 13:13:27 <Ammler> yep, but as you will always do ctrl-l & f, you could as good do that with ctrl-l 13:13:50 *** Sacro [~ben@150.237.48.99] has joined #openttd 13:13:52 <Ammler> but it is ok :-) 13:14:35 <Zuu> then you would have to rename ctrl + l hotkey to "open and focus filter edit box" 13:15:32 <Zuu> which is probably to specific to be in trunk 13:15:37 <Ammler> maybe the new hotkeys feature does allow alias or something like? 13:15:39 *** ctibor|spi [~quassel@77.48.228.43] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 13:15:48 <Ammler> so you could define combinations 13:17:19 <fonsinchen> I could implement the SDT_INTLIST type for settings. Then I could have a list of cargos for each distribution type. I have no idea on how to make that editable, though. 13:21:39 *** Fast2 [~Fast2@p57AF8E41.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 13:25:03 *** dfox [~dfox@r6l51.net.upc.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 13:27:35 <fonsinchen> maybe it's enough to make that available in the config file for now. 13:29:33 *** Lakie [~Lakie@91.84.251.149] has joined #openttd 13:38:33 *** ecke [~ecke@188.75.128.2] has joined #openttd 13:46:48 *** DanMacK [~DanMacK@206.191.69.149] has joined #openttd 14:06:27 *** DanMacK [~DanMacK@206.191.69.149] has quit [Quit: Bye for now!] 14:08:10 *** fonsinchen [~fonsinche@brln-4dbabcc6.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:36:51 <CIA-9> OpenTTD: frosch * r20169 /trunk/src/ (group_gui.cpp vehicle_gui.cpp vehicle_gui_base.h): -Codechange: Replace ShowGroupActionDropdown() with BaseVehicleListWindow::BuildActionDropdownList(). 14:41:49 *** Biolunar [mahdi@blfd-5d823a80.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 14:48:06 <CIA-9> OpenTTD: frosch * r20170 /trunk/src/ (group_gui.cpp vehicle_gui.cpp vehicle_gui_base.h): -Codechange: Add BaseVehicleListWindow::GetActionDropdownSize(). 14:49:01 *** einKarl [~einKarl@95-89-121-65-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #openttd 14:50:24 *** ctibor [~quassel@77.48.228.43] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:53:03 *** ctibor [~quassel@77.48.228.43] has joined #openttd 14:53:58 <CIA-9> OpenTTD: frosch * r20171 /trunk/src/ (vehicle_gui.cpp vehicle_gui_base.h): -Fix: Make the group list action dropdown also use vehicletype-specific texts like the normal vehicle list. 14:58:49 <CIA-9> OpenTTD: frosch * r20172 /trunk/src/ (group_gui.cpp vehicle_gui.cpp vehicle_gui_base.h): -Codechange: Use BaseVehicleListWindow::BuildActionDropdownList() also for the normal vehicle list. 15:03:18 <CIA-9> OpenTTD: frosch * r20173 /trunk/src/vehicle_gui.cpp: -Codechange: Make the normal vehiclelist fit the longest action dropdown text. 15:05:24 *** Zahl_ [~Zahl@2a01:198:5c1:0:d16:aadb:e67b:596f] has joined #openttd 15:05:24 *** Zahl [~Zahl@2a01:198:5c1:0:d16:aadb:e67b:596f] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:05:25 *** Zahl_ is now known as Zahl 15:06:24 *** fonsinchen [~fonsinche@brln-4dbabcc6.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 15:06:39 <CIA-9> OpenTTD: frosch * r20174 /trunk/src/vehicle_gui.cpp: -Codechange [FS#3955]: Allow horizontal resizing for all vehicle lists. 15:16:53 *** Fast2 [~Fast2@p57AF8E41.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 15:30:50 *** perk111 [~perk11@178.34.90.65] has joined #openttd 15:35:47 *** Dreamxtreme [Dreamxtrem@92.10.85.141] has quit [Quit: Hi, I'm a quit message virus. Please replace your old line with this line and help me take over the world of IRC.] 15:36:20 *** perk11 [~perk11@85.175.121.141] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:39:03 <CIA-9> OpenTTD: frosch * r20175 /trunk/src/newgrf_engine.cpp: -Change: [NewGRF] Adapt vehicle var FE bit 6 to new railtypes. 15:40:27 *** Dreamxtreme [Dreamxtrem@92.10.85.141] has joined #openttd 16:00:55 *** Singaporekid [~notme@cm82.epsilon84.maxonline.com.sg] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:09:50 *** fonsinchen [~fonsinche@brln-4dbabcc6.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:17:39 *** Brianetta [~brian@188-220-91-30.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd 16:19:35 *** einKarl [~einKarl@95-89-121-65-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:24:17 *** tdev [~udev@p508ECEAE.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: free open source vehicle simulator: http://rigsofrods.com] 16:26:15 *** clum [clum@92.7.30.78] has quit [] 16:28:47 *** clum [clum@92.7.30.78] has joined #openttd 16:39:05 *** ctibor [~quassel@77.48.228.43] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:42:30 *** Zahl_ [~Zahl@frbg-4d0290e0.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 16:44:33 *** bryjen [~bryjen@75.81.201.131] has joined #openttd 16:48:44 *** Zahl [~Zahl@2a01:198:5c1:0:d16:aadb:e67b:596f] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:48:44 *** Zahl_ is now known as Zahl 16:51:06 *** ctibor [~quassel@77.48.228.43] has joined #openttd 16:57:15 *** theholyduck [~holyduck@77.106.157.227] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:09:10 *** hinstance [hinstance@wl206225.jaist.ac.jp] has joined #openttd 17:13:52 *** Zahl_ [~Zahl@2a01:198:5c1:0:d16:aadb:e67b:596f] has joined #openttd 17:15:09 *** hinstance [hinstance@wl206225.jaist.ac.jp] has left #openttd [] 17:20:46 *** Zahl [~Zahl@frbg-4d0290e0.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:20:46 *** Zahl_ is now known as Zahl 17:28:53 *** welshdragon [~dragon@ip16.rdlbnc.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:28:53 *** snc [~snc@ip10.rdlbnc.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:34:10 *** pugi [~pugi@p4FCC4C0C.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:34:26 *** pugi [~pugi@p4FCC4FD9.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 17:39:16 *** Fuco [~dota.keys@188.123.106.105] has joined #openttd 17:41:00 *** theholyduck [~holyduck@77.106.157.227] has joined #openttd 17:43:16 *** Adambean [CG1@82.hosts.reece-eu.net] has joined #openttd 17:44:29 *** Illegal_Alien [~Illegal_A@ip4da39612.direct-adsl.nl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:44:42 *** Illegal_Alien [~Illegal_A@ip4da39612.direct-adsl.nl] has joined #openttd 17:45:43 <CIA-9> OpenTTD: translators * r20176 /trunk/src/lang/ (6 files in 2 dirs): (log message trimmed) 17:45:43 <CIA-9> OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0: 17:45:43 <CIA-9> OpenTTD: chuvash - 19 changes by mefisteron 17:45:43 <CIA-9> OpenTTD: greek - 9 changes by fumantsu 17:45:43 <CIA-9> OpenTTD: indonesian - 7 changes by prof 17:45:43 <CIA-9> OpenTTD: italian - 13 changes by lorenzodv 17:45:43 <CIA-9> OpenTTD: swedish - 2 changes by tool 17:45:47 <CIA-9> OpenTTD: rubidium * r20177 /branches/1.0/ (7 files in 5 dirs): [1.0] -Prepare: for 1.0.3-RC1 17:47:35 * frosch123 is ready 17:48:03 *** Pikka [~chatzilla@c122-108-245-233.kelvn3.qld.optusnet.com.au] has joined #openttd 17:48:15 <CIA-9> OpenTTD: rubidium * r20178 /branches/1.0/src/lang/ (18 files): [1.0] -Backport: language updates 17:48:47 *** Pikka [~chatzilla@c122-108-245-233.kelvn3.qld.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.6/20100625231939]] 17:49:07 *** Pikka [~chatzilla@c122-108-245-233.kelvn3.qld.optusnet.com.au] has joined #openttd 17:52:05 *** snc [~snc@ip10.rdlbnc.com] has joined #openttd 17:52:32 <CIA-9> OpenTTD: rubidium * r20179 /tags/1.0.3-RC1/ (5 files in 4 dirs): -Release: 1.0.3-RC1 17:52:45 <Wolf01> hurray! 17:55:07 *** welshdragon [~dragon@ip16.rdlbnc.com] has joined #openttd 18:00:34 *** Sacro [~ben@150.237.48.99] has quit [Quit: Sacro] 18:07:46 *** Jhs [~Jhs4@188.113.85.20] has joined #openttd 18:10:45 *** tdev [~udev@p508ECEAE.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 18:23:00 *** duckblaster [~duckblast@202-65-53-175.xdsl.net.oyster.net.ck] has joined #openttd 18:28:10 *** ctibor [~quassel@77.48.228.43] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:42:09 *** ctibor [~quassel@77.48.228.43] has joined #openttd 18:56:13 *** einKarl [~einKarl@95-89-121-65-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #openttd 18:56:18 *** Biolunar [mahdi@blfd-5d823a80.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: bis dann] 18:57:33 *** pugi [~pugi@p4FCC4FD9.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: ALL YOUR BASE ARE BELONG TO US!] 18:58:59 *** einKarl [~einKarl@95-89-121-65-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:01:10 *** pugi [~pugi@p4FCC4FD9.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 19:06:59 *** Fuco [~dota.keys@188.123.106.105] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:07:13 *** Fuco [~dota.keys@188.123.106.105] has joined #openttd 19:15:29 *** Pikka [~chatzilla@c122-108-245-233.kelvn3.qld.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.6/20100625231939]] 19:23:23 *** bryjen [~bryjen@75.81.201.131] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:28:41 *** hinstance [~hinstance@113.21.57.20] has joined #openttd 19:31:24 *** hinstance [~hinstance@113.21.57.20] has left #openttd [] 19:32:54 *** fonsinchen [~fonsinche@brln-4dbabcc6.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 19:40:25 *** fonsinchen [~fonsinche@brln-4dbabcc6.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:01:52 *** Adambean [CG1@82.hosts.reece-eu.net] has quit [Quit: Gone fishing] 20:02:55 * Rubidium thinks the Spanish wiki translator should get his/her priorities right 20:05:19 <Rubidium> translating the Nintendo DS and DOS pages should probably be done rather late... like after the "how to install openttd" and the base "how to play openttd" pages 20:09:34 *** Alberth [~hat@a82-95-164-127.adsl.xs4all.nl] has left #openttd [] 20:10:00 <__ln__> did you know openttd is an abandoned game? 20:10:13 <Wolf01> really? 20:10:24 <__ln__> no. 20:10:44 <Wolf01> __ln__ you could do the italian translation of the wiki 20:11:08 <__ln__> but this guy thinks so: http://pastebin.com/PmB3Bm2L 20:11:53 <Rubidium> although I agree that telling people what a universal library/binary is and why it's so useful is more important than telling how the game works/should be installed 20:12:18 <__ln__> Wolf01: io ne parlare bastante italiano 20:13:00 <Wolf01> I know you could do it, I might fix it up later :D 20:13:24 <Rubidium> Wolf01: IT Crowd Italian? 20:13:47 <Wolf01> seriously, I think I'll begin to translate some pages of the wiki 20:14:16 <Wolf01> I think I might start from my profile, then the Nintendo DS page as well 20:16:01 <__ln__> the Nintendo_DS/Es page looks very english 20:16:02 <planetmaker> __ln__: I'm not sure that guy thinks 20:16:26 * Rubidium wishes that guy good luck with the installer :) 20:16:45 <planetmaker> :-) 20:17:36 *** bryjen [~bryjen@75.81.201.131] has joined #openttd 20:18:18 <Ammler> Rubidium: is that the right way to make wiki translations? 20:18:24 * planetmaker can think of many more joyful endeavours 20:18:40 *** ctibor [~quassel@77.48.228.43] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:18:42 <Wolf01> too bad I never did a translation for a wiki before, making a copy of the page with the {{Other_languages|en=PageName|it=CopyOfPageName... is enough? Where the copy is the translated page... or there's a way to keep the same page name with different languages? 20:18:44 <Rubidium> Ammler: the best I've seen so far 20:19:07 <Ammler> but it's not how wikipedia does it 20:19:57 <Rubidium> wikipedia has N different seperate wikis 20:20:15 <Rubidium> and not quite a translation 20:20:41 <Ammler> well, I don't think, this will become a translation too 20:22:04 <Ammler> might be better to use a webtranslator 20:22:55 <Ammler> people should rather simply make their own wiki 20:23:24 <Rubidium> there are ideas to make the "user" part into something docbook-ish, which is easier to translate... possibly even via WT3. The rest of the wiki isn't very useful in non-English (like the how-to-set-up-the-compiler and such) 20:23:31 <Rubidium> or the "devbooks" 20:24:15 <Ammler> also translating the readme would make more sense, imo 20:24:42 <Rubidium> yup... 20:24:45 <Rubidium> more for WT3 to do 20:24:45 <Wolf01> <Ammler> people should rather simply make their own wiki <- I did it so, but on my forum 20:25:25 <Ammler> Wolf01: could also be wiki.openttd.org/es/<whatever> 20:25:52 <__ln__> why would how-to-set-up-the-compiler be especially less useless in non-English? (than, say, Nintendo DS) 20:26:36 <Ammler> Nintendo DS _is_ _very_ important 20:28:49 <Rubidium> the Nintendo DS wouldn't be in the dockbook thing either 20:29:12 <__ln__> for example MS Visual Studio is available in Spanish, so not all compiler users necessarily operate in english. 20:30:50 <Rubidium> and Spanish MSVC supports Spanish written C? 20:31:23 <Ammler> yeah, like MS Excel 20:31:55 <__ln__> Rubidium: not really, but compiler and linker messages are in spanish, not just the gui. 20:33:58 <Rubidium> in any case... for compiling to be useful they want to change OpenTTD's code and that kinda requires knowledge of English 20:34:27 <Rubidium> and I doubt that there are much C programmers that don't have a clue about English 20:34:42 <Wolf01> \o 20:34:45 <Rubidium> whereas I'm quite sure there are people playing OpenTTD that don't understand English 20:35:15 <Rubidium> so... a translated user manual makes way more sense than a translated developers manual 20:37:23 *** De_Ghosty [~s@69-196-134-158.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #openttd 20:37:35 <__ln__> Rubidium: would be interesting to see some statistics about english-clueless C programmers (in general, not OpenTTD-relatedly). i suspect there must be thousands of them in places like China or Japan. 20:39:42 <planetmaker> [22:35] <Rubidium> so... a translated user manual makes way more sense than a translated developers manual <-- agreed. But that doesn't make the latter worthless 20:40:07 <Wolf01> I started developing in Basic when I was 5, I didn't know the meaning of "for" or "if..then..else" or "print" and "input" but copying the examples and trying I learnt the basics 20:41:43 <Wolf01> for example, "print" and "input" for me had the same meaning, both printed a statement on the screen, the only difference was that "input" asked for a user action to continue 20:47:33 <frosch123> there are a lot programmers who do not know english 20:50:37 <__ln__> and indeed C is not COBOL, so there are very few words to learn. (and you'd still need to learn them even if you were an englishman.) 20:52:16 *** De_Ghosty [~s@69-196-134-158.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:54:14 <Ammler> nobody likes to play with breakdowns 20:54:25 <Wolf01> I do 20:56:52 <frosch123> i also do 20:57:06 <frosch123> else you use the same engines in every game 20:57:35 <frosch123> with breakdowns "reliability" is often the most important property :) 20:59:12 *** Sacro [~ben@adsl-87-102-20-80.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd 20:59:56 <frosch123> btw. the game is then easier if there are lots of engines to choose from, while e.g. in nars one model stays bad 21:01:58 <Ammler> yeah, it is specially good for SP, but quite hard to let the vehicles run without watching... 21:02:43 <Ammler> there should be an additonal step between none and reduced 21:03:39 <Wolf01> very low? 21:04:20 <Ammler> reduced are still a lot breakdowns 21:04:25 <Wolf01> or maybe the realistic breakdowns patch directly 21:05:07 <Wolf01> if I have 2 engines I don't understand why a breakdown is _always_ a critical failure 21:05:33 <Ammler> he true 21:05:45 <Ammler> then you can half the breakdowns with just doubling engines 21:06:49 <planetmaker> Wolf01: because it's always either a half-de-railed axle or a completely blocked brake or a disruption in the hydraulics which communicates to all parts of the consist 21:07:21 <planetmaker> And that's especially nice for horse carriages which start to smoke due to over-work :-P 21:07:47 <planetmaker> newgrf breakdowns ;-) 21:09:10 <Wolf01> planetmaker every breakdown you mentioned cannot be always resolved in place, at least not without a lot of work, maintenance vehicles and lots of other things 21:10:29 <__ln__> when a train breaks down, should there be buses to replace it? 21:11:18 <Wolf01> no, I suggest helicopters, how do you reach a train blocked in the middle of a desert without roads? 21:11:59 <Wolf01> Ammler, not true, there's always a chance of a critical mechanical failure which makes the vehicle/train stop, other breakdowns limit only the power, max speed, tractive effort 21:12:30 <planetmaker> power=0: "Oberleitungsschaden" (catanery failure) 21:12:42 <Wolf01> but at least the train doesn't stop every dog piss :P 21:12:46 <Ammler> I doesn't need to be so complicated, just disable the engine on breakdown 21:12:50 <planetmaker> And then mostly because some jerk found it funny to cash in on the copper of the catanery 21:13:39 <planetmaker> I still wonder how one can go for such thing... 21:14:21 <Wolf01> planetmaker, happened in Italy too, and the jerk was found without his arms but 2 smoking stumps... 21:14:33 <planetmaker> he 21:15:00 <planetmaker> nah, they were really successful in this case 21:15:03 <Wolf01> he was trying to steal the copper wire of an high power transformer of the rail system 21:15:15 <Wolf01> *a high... 21:15:24 <planetmaker> oh... no good idea :-) 21:15:33 <frosch123> maybe the reliabiliy should increase somewhat after it got repaired on the track 21:15:36 <Wolf01> no, really not 21:16:18 <planetmaker> frosch123: I like the idea of power=te=0 for train and vehicle failures 21:16:31 <planetmaker> it's easy. And it then pays to have redundancy :-) 21:16:53 <Wolf01> frosch123, I bet that an engine with 0% reliability which break down every 5 tiles should look like the "Howl's crawling castle" 21:17:18 <planetmaker> Wolf01: I bet a newgrf *could* do that 21:18:21 <__ln__> Wolf01: train companies cannot afford helicopters for a thousand people 21:19:24 <Wolf01> can they afford to build a road to reach the broken down train? 21:19:28 <planetmaker> Wolf01: a 2nd train would be sent 21:19:49 <Zuu> But that would block the other track. 21:19:55 <planetmaker> easy cheap and affordable 21:20:08 <planetmaker> Zuu: why other track? you just need to get there 21:20:23 <planetmaker> if you feel like you can even pull the broken-down train 21:20:23 <Zuu> Depends on the location. 21:20:34 <Wolf01> in the same track, indeed, at least in the real world they use to use shunters to bring back the train at the nearest station 21:21:10 <planetmaker> hm... copper 7k⬠per kg 21:21:15 <Zuu> Usually you don't have to go on the other track but in some bad luck situations it could be necessary. Especally if you need to evacuate people, then you don't want to be next to tranis passing by in 200 km/h. 21:21:18 <Wolf01> and if the engine is too damaged they disconnect it getting "disconnecting train" error, and they blow it up 21:21:30 <planetmaker> 7k $US rather. STill 21:22:58 <Zuu> Anyway if there is a risk of an engine to have a fatal error that stops the train no mater if you have additional engines, then that risk will increase with multiple engines. 21:22:59 <Rubidium> *if* you want realistic breakdowns then you should have brake breakdowns as well, especially fun on long downhill slopes 21:23:04 *** duckblaster [~duckblast@202-65-53-175.xdsl.net.oyster.net.ck] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:23:55 <perk111> >planetmaker: And then mostly because some jerk found it funny to cash in on the copper of the catanery 21:23:55 <perk111> lol, in russian we had "No power" translated as "Someone has stolen catenary" 21:24:02 <Wolf01> gah, the 2nd level of Magic is impossible.. I do 4-5 damage, my enemy does 11+5+6+3 and blocked almost all my creatures with traps and spells... 21:24:09 <planetmaker> Zuu: sure. But currently *every* failure is fatal. The implicit assumption here - propbably - is that that will change 21:24:11 <Zuu> Oh, and apart from smokning horses, we need horses that lay down and dies when they get too old. :-) 21:24:45 <Wolf01> Rubidium, there's always the emergency brake... 21:25:07 <Zuu> which could always also has a failure. 21:25:25 <Wolf01> it should be impossible to break at the same time in _all_ the cars of the train 21:25:30 <Zuu> In the winter there were metro trains in stockholm that failed to brake and rolled past three stations before they stopped. 21:25:42 <Wolf01> lol 21:26:00 <planetmaker> he 21:26:07 <perk111> Zuu: no, if you have multilple engines and one is broken, a train still can use others 21:26:16 <Zuu> And then the commuters were angry because they closed down all outdoor metro lines. 21:26:24 <Rubidium> Wolf01: but... people forget about secondary brakes 21:26:39 <Eddi|zuHause> the breakdown graphics and sounds must be exposed to the newgrf 21:26:51 <Eddi|zuHause> similar to running sounds 21:27:07 <perk111> Yes, it would be nice 21:27:23 <Eddi|zuHause> it shouldn't even be difficult to do... 21:27:38 <Eddi|zuHause> (no, i will not do it) 21:27:51 <Wolf01> yes, there's always a chance that an engine has a power loss when climbing a mountain and the emergency brake maintenance was... forgotten in the last maintenance... especially if the engine reliability drops below 10% 21:28:01 <Rubidium> Wolf01: and there have been crashes even when the emergency brakes were applied (e.g. Coton Hill rail crash) 21:28:39 *** yorick [~yorick@ip51cd0513.speed.planet.nl] has quit [Quit: Poef!] 21:29:41 <Eddi|zuHause> Zuu: railways all over the world are failing... the swedish are obviously not excluded... 21:30:01 <Eddi|zuHause> only the english have a 30 year headstart... 21:30:55 *** perk11 [~perk11@178.34.90.65] has joined #openttd 21:31:05 *** bryjen [~bryjen@75.81.201.131] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:31:18 <planetmaker> [23:26] <Rubidium> Wolf01: but... people forget about secondary brakes <-- yep 21:31:19 <Eddi|zuHause> i'm still amazed how the german railway agency (Eisenbahnbundesamt, EBA) managed to pull the plug on the berlin S-Bahn before anything really serious happened... 21:31:50 <planetmaker> Once there was a tram, the driver announced that the primary brake system failed and braking would be kinda abrupt. Initially the people laughed 21:32:02 <planetmaker> Until the tram had to brake for the first time... 21:32:55 *** perk1111 [~perk11@178.34.90.65] has joined #openttd 21:33:06 <Eddi|zuHause> ... if anything that serious broke in a tram, i'd demand all passengers to leave! 21:33:40 <planetmaker> obviously not 21:33:47 <Eddi|zuHause> there's always the next tram in at most 15 minutes... 21:33:58 <planetmaker> well it still had brakes, so no trouble :-) 21:34:27 <Rubidium> until those break, or the wheels become square 21:34:37 <planetmaker> :-) 21:34:47 <Eddi|zuHause> oah... they drove here with a "flat" wheel for years :p 21:35:03 <Eddi|zuHause> made nice noises :p 21:35:49 <frosch123> @calc 65536/(55*31) 21:35:49 <DorpsGek> frosch123: 38.4375366569 21:36:06 <Wolf01> gah, lost again -2 to 11 21:36:16 <Eddi|zuHause> they probably said... "ah. what the hell. as long as the wheel is in better shape than the tracks" :p 21:36:29 <Wolf01> (I was 13 before last attack) 21:36:31 <Rubidium> Wolf01: start using unsigned numbers! 21:36:59 *** perk111 [~perk11@178.34.90.65] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:37:09 <Eddi|zuHause> and parentheses :p 21:37:15 *** Kurimus [Kurimus@dsl-tkubrasgw1-fe34dc00-202.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [] 21:37:48 <Eddi|zuHause> if you lose "-2 [score] to 11 [score]", something goes seriously wrong 21:38:23 <Wolf01> you know, meh... Magic... all is possible 21:38:59 *** perk11 [~perk11@178.34.90.65] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:51:46 <__ln__> completely off-topic, but why do movie-soundtracks-performed-through-a-bad-synthesizer type of CDs exist in the first place? 21:57:03 <Zuu> Since quality is not necessary to sell movie related stuff? 21:58:52 <__ln__> but those aren't even official movie merchandies nor branded so. (and no wonder) 21:59:07 <Zuu> If the main brand is the movie rather than the company making it, then there will always be new movies and you won't lose much of your company brand name by making a bad movie product. 22:00:07 <Zuu> hmm, but if they are not heavily branded for the movie, then it's more silly. 22:00:32 <__ln__> and often the cover of such a CD claims "performed by Some Blahblahcity Orchestra", but is in fact performed with a bad synthesizer, as mentioned. 22:00:47 *** perk1111 [~perk11@178.34.90.65] has quit [Quit: Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org] 22:09:43 <Eddi|zuHause> sue them for mislabeling the product 22:13:08 <__ln__> what surprises me the most is that the copyright holders allow such crap to be made. (those obviously aren't pirated stuff) anyway, i don't buy those. 22:19:03 *** De_Ghosty [~s@69-196-134-158.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #openttd 22:19:26 *** tokai [~tokai@port-92-195-121-106.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:21:41 *** tokai [~tokai@port-92-195-110-3.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #openttd 22:21:44 *** mode/#openttd [+v tokai] by ChanServ 22:22:06 *** KritiK [~Maxim@95-26-130-136.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:25:57 <Wolf01> __ln__ they would allow anything for money, also if somebody does it with burps and farts instead of a crappy synth 22:27:26 <fjb> Some movies are only made to sell a lot of expensive crap afterwards. 22:29:39 <Eddi|zuHause> reminds me of "the studios had so little faith in the success of star wars that they let george lucas keep all merchandise rights" 22:31:19 *** Eggman891 [~Eggman891@cpc6-staf7-2-0-cust21.know.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 22:32:49 <fjb> Epic fail. 22:34:02 <Wolf01> I think they learnt the lesson... 22:34:07 *** dfox [~dfox@r6l51.net.upc.cz] has joined #openttd 22:34:26 <Rubidium> yup... now ALL movies make a loss 22:34:59 <Eddi|zuHause> "creative bookkeeping" 22:35:19 <Rubidium> yes... that one 22:35:21 <Eddi|zuHause> it's the only thing that's actually still creative in the music and film industry 22:35:40 <Rubidium> well, they've got another creative way of losing money 22:36:11 <Rubidium> the sueing of people seems to make a huge loss as well 22:36:24 <Eddi|zuHause> yeah, i read that ;) 22:36:34 <Wolf01> yeah 30M vs 14k :P 22:36:51 <Wolf01> or it was 140k 22:37:06 <Eddi|zuHause> not quite that extreme... 22:37:39 <Eddi|zuHause> the whole sueing thing is just a media attention scheme anyway 22:39:03 <Eddi|zuHause> while pressing the y key... have i ever mentioned that in english texts, 2% of the letters are y, but in german texts, only 0.02%? 22:40:38 <__ln__> Ìuo haven't 22:41:21 <planetmaker> Ì is certainly more abundant in German than y 22:41:29 <planetmaker> actually... probably every letter is 22:41:43 <Eddi|zuHause> i think even x is more common 22:41:52 <Wolf01> http://recordingindustryvspeople.blogspot.com/2010/07/ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-riaa-paid-its-lawyers.html 22:42:10 <fjb> We have a proper i. 22:42:59 <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause: wiki says 0.04% 22:43:05 <planetmaker> and q and x are more seldom 22:43:17 <planetmaker> http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buchstabenh%C3%A4ufigkeit 22:44:49 <Eddi|zuHause> maybe that table changed... or i just remember it wrong... 22:45:55 *** tokai [~tokai@port-92-195-110-3.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:46:13 *** Frankr [~chatzilla@cpc3-pres13-2-0-cust333.pres.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 22:46:39 <__ln__> "Die Umlaute À, ö und Ì wurden wie ae, oe und ue gezÀhlt" <- silly 22:49:40 <Wolf01> italian - k - 0.00%... wrong! Today k is the most used letter in Italy! Boys use it everywhere also where it's not required, something like koffee, kat... only because it looks kool..ehm cool 22:49:52 <FauxFaux> Fuckers. 22:50:31 <Eddi|zuHause> they kopied KDE? 22:50:45 *** tokai [~tokai@port-92-195-4-235.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #openttd 22:50:46 *** mode/#openttd [+v tokai] by ChanServ 22:50:46 <Eddi|zuHause> all KDE programs sound very german :p 22:51:36 <Wolf01> <Eddi|zuHause> they kopied KDE? <- maybe, maybe KDE copied them 22:52:37 *** tdev [~udev@p508ECEAE.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: free open source vehicle simulator: http://rigsofrods.com] 22:53:43 <Wolf01> ok, I think I might go to bed... does it matter if I'm already on the bed? 22:54:45 <__ln__> it does 22:55:06 <__ln__> your GOTO may get in an infinite loop 22:55:07 <Eddi|zuHause> btw: [Sa Jan 31 2009] [15:52:30] <Eddi|zuHause> and every 2500th letter is a "y" (english: every 50th) 22:55:09 * Rubidium wonders how they distinguish between km and cm if they don't use a k 22:55:39 <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: that, of course, was a french invention :p 22:55:53 <Wolf01> __ln__ ahaahh great one :D 22:56:17 <Rubidium> an apparantly they never abbreviate Crotone :) 22:56:58 <Vadtec> when using percent based maintenance intervals, is it X% less than maxium, as in max reliablity=96% * 15% interval = 82% reliablity the train goes in, or is it max 96% * 15% interval = 14% the train goes in? 22:57:09 <Eddi|zuHause> some of the element abbreviations in the periodic tables are derived from german names 22:57:19 <Eddi|zuHause> it's weirdly inconsistent, though... 22:57:30 <Rubidium> Crotone is an Italian province 22:57:31 <Eddi|zuHause> as if it was a patchwork done through several centuries :p 22:58:24 <Eddi|zuHause> lgy 22:58:27 <Eddi|zuHause> grr... 22:58:31 <Rubidium> oh... there's even an Italian political party with a k 22:58:37 <Eddi|zuHause> vertically offset keyboard 22:59:31 <Eddi|zuHause> the italian provinces are also the result of centuries long patchwork :p 22:59:50 <Vadtec> anyone? 23:00:18 <Eddi|zuHause> i think it's in percent of the maximum value 23:00:36 <Eddi|zuHause> like if max is 80% and you set 80%, then it's 64% 23:00:53 <Eddi|zuHause> but i'm totally not sure.. 23:00:55 <Vadtec> so if i set it to 15%, when the vehicle get to max - 15%, it should go in for maintenance correct? 23:01:16 <Eddi|zuHause> no 23:01:22 <Eddi|zuHause> 15%*max 23:01:46 <Eddi|zuHause> so 15%*80%=12% 23:01:50 *** ^Spike^ [~spike@d200003.upc-d.chello.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:02:17 <Vadtec> hmmm 23:02:32 <Vadtec> i have the perfect set of trains to try it on 23:04:20 <Vadtec> i have a train with max 96%, current 22%, interval set at 85%, so it should go in at... 81% 23:04:26 <Vadtec> yet it just completely blew by the depot 23:04:34 <Zuu> With conditional orders I belive you can do it the other way around. - Setting it to max X% of 100. 23:05:10 <Zuu> But then you have to eithe have a waypoint next to the depot or the decision will be made when they leave the previous station. 23:05:59 <Zuu> Not to mention the tediousness of that solution for all but AI-players. (but then implementing it into an AI is not free of charge in respect of time neither) 23:06:23 <Vadtec> if this is reversed like im thinking, this train will go in when it reaches 14% 23:06:45 <Vadtec> http://wiki.openttd.org/Advanced_Settings/Vehicles#Service_intervals_are_in_percents 23:06:54 <Vadtec> that says its max - (max * %) 23:07:08 <Vadtec> so if i set it to 85%, it has to get waaaaaaaay low before it goes in 23:08:35 <Eddi|zuHause> like i said, i'm totally not sure.. 23:08:52 <Vadtec> well however its *supposed* to work, its not 23:09:04 <Vadtec> none of my vehicles are heading to their depots 23:09:20 <Vadtec> that train is now down to 5% reliablity 23:09:27 <Vadtec> and has passed the depot 4 times 23:09:32 <Zuu> Do you by chance use PBS signals? 23:09:43 <Zuu> With the depot of the main track? 23:09:46 <Eddi|zuHause> sometimes trains skip depots because of path reservations 23:09:58 <Vadtec> no, no PBS on this particular line 23:10:05 <Vadtec> this one is a big loop 23:10:10 <Vadtec> station A to staion B 23:10:12 <Vadtec> in a loop 23:10:21 <Vadtec> with the depot just off the line 23:10:36 <Eddi|zuHause> try placing block signals? 23:10:44 <Eddi|zuHause> or more depots? 23:10:54 <Vadtec> i have one way signals along the loop 23:11:29 <Vadtec> this train is at 0% reliability 23:11:35 <Vadtec> and it *still* passes the depot 23:11:48 <Zuu> Do they have orders? 23:11:51 <Vadtec> yes 23:12:07 <Vadtec> i never have trains without orders 23:12:10 <Vadtec> even in a loop 23:12:34 <Zuu> It could work, but the issue is that without orders, then the pathfinder do not run. 23:13:11 <Vadtec> well, screw this, im going back to days based 23:13:21 <Vadtec> cause something is obviously screwed up 23:13:38 <Zuu> All I remember about it is that it is not what you think it is. 23:13:51 <Vadtec> well ive tried high values and low values 23:13:55 <Zuu> If you switch back to day-based, does your test-case work then? 23:13:55 <Vadtec> the train is at 0% 23:14:17 <Vadtec> sec, the train is making its rounds 23:14:58 <Zuu> If it works, you colud try posting a screenshot + savegame + question to the OpenTTD Problems forum if you want to seek more understanding. 23:15:06 <Eddi|zuHause> did you change the actual train's interval or just the default in the settings? 23:15:19 <Vadtec> the trains interval 23:16:13 <Wolf01> 'night everybody 23:16:31 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@host197-232-dynamic.9-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.] 23:16:42 <Vadtec> the train was last serviced on 1961/01/25 23:16:45 <Zuu> Hmm, perhaps I should also recommend you to search on the forums as you could get blamed for posting the same question that 100 people has already posted if it is easy to find on the search function. 23:16:45 *** pugi [~pugi@p4FCC4FD9.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: ALL YOUR BASE ARE BELONG TO US!] 23:16:51 <Vadtec> its now 1963/08/20 23:17:15 <Vadtec> and its *still* ignoring the depot 23:17:45 <Vadtec> i somehow get the feeling that percent based has screwed up the maintenance tables 23:18:13 <Vadtec> ill have to mess with it later 23:18:15 <Vadtec> got things to do 23:18:20 <Vadtec> thanks for trying to help 23:19:47 <fjb> Does it find the depot? 23:20:02 <fjb> Are you using path signals? 23:22:13 <Zuu> He said no to PBS signals earlier, but without a screenshot it is hard to know if he has full understanding of all the signal types or not. 23:23:37 <Zuu> and/or the signal jargon 23:24:09 <Eddi|zuHause> hm... there's only really boring things on the forums... 23:24:32 <fjb> It's summer. 23:25:21 <Zuu> So what should *someone* post then? :-p 23:25:28 <FauxFaux> TITS 23:25:50 <Markk> Or GTFO. 23:25:51 <Markk> :D 23:27:58 <Eddi|zuHause> there once was a commercial spot or so, where four guys were standing in a stadium, and had "TITS" spelled on their bellies 23:28:12 <Eddi|zuHause> then two other guys arrived, making it spell "TITANS" 23:29:34 *** clum [clum@92.7.30.78] has quit [] 23:31:13 <Zuu> hehe 23:32:45 <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: if you're bored, maybe you can figure out http://bugs.openttd.org/task/3956 23:34:01 <Vadtec> yes, i understand the concept of all the signal types 23:34:12 <Vadtec> its pretty simple 23:34:19 <Vadtec> i have a one way loop for that train 23:34:30 <Vadtec> using simple one way signals 23:34:31 <Vadtec> no PBS 23:34:45 <Vadtec> the depot is between two signals 23:34:50 <Vadtec> right next to the line 23:35:25 <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: you mean what the reporter thinks the bug is, what the reporter does, what the actual bug is, or how to fix it? :p 23:35:57 <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: all four please :) 23:37:47 <Rubidium> although the "how to fix it" part alone is fine as well 23:38:52 <Eddi|zuHause> so basically, when releasing the mouse after a drag&drop operation, it selects the convert tool? 23:39:07 <Eddi|zuHause> i suspect some weird mouse driver/gesture thingie 23:39:15 <Rubidium> yes, except when you press Ctrl 23:40:04 <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: agreed :( 23:42:39 <Zuu> He should try to select another hotkey for convert rail and see if the problem remains. 23:43:15 <Eddi|zuHause> hotkeys are not in 1.0.2 23:43:17 <Rubidium> Zuu: won't work 23:43:28 *** KenjiE20 [~KenjiE20@92.9.42.146] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.2] 23:43:49 <Rubidium> and I don't dare to tell him to install a nightly as it's going to be a guaranteed disaster as he simply can't follow some steps 23:44:10 <Zuu> hmm, perhaps I should read the FS task :-) 23:44:32 <Rubidium> ask him something and he starts doing something completely different 23:45:17 <Rubidium> he says "problem happens for last four version", I ask "which versions" and then he starts reinstalling the game... 23:45:21 <Zuu> And he writes that he is an IT professional :-) 23:45:42 <frosch123> of course, else he would have made it work long ago 23:45:44 <Rubidium> if you have to write that you're probably the guy refilling printers 23:47:06 <Eddi|zuHause> typical windows user reaction 23:47:16 <Eddi|zuHause> "it doesn't work, i try reinstalling" 23:47:59 <Zuu> Is he possible a google translate user? 23:48:02 <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: i keep thinking of the girl in The IT Crowd ;) 23:48:25 <Eddi|zuHause> Zuu: doesn't really look like it... 23:48:49 <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: yes, that'd be an IT professional as well 23:49:14 <Eddi|zuHause> "What does 'IT' actually stand for?" :p 23:49:16 <Rubidium> although she kinda listens to the real professionals 23:49:27 <Rubidium> information technology 23:49:40 <Rubidium> so that might even include receptionists 23:49:41 <Eddi|zuHause> no, i mean that was an actual phrase in the series ;) 23:50:10 <Rubidium> and don't google for google :) 23:50:17 <Rubidium> this box contains the internet 23:50:56 <Eddi|zuHause> she was doing a job interview for an IT position, and was asked this question 23:51:02 <Eddi|zuHause> and didn't know the answer... 23:51:18 <Eddi|zuHause> not sure, was either season 3 or 4 23:51:59 <Rubidium> 0118 999 881 999 119 7253 :) 23:52:31 <Rubidium> though I like that whole episode :) 23:53:19 <Eddi|zuHause> that was like the second episode or so 23:53:32 <Eddi|zuHause> they did a reprise on that later ;) 23:55:34 <Zuu> "I think Ill try uninstall the version I've got now an dreinstling it as I've had it upgraded since openttd became updatable and I've added some of the TTDX patch addon in there that might repair it." ^^ 23:56:17 <Zuu> Perhaps a screenshot would be good to know that he is actually using OpenTTD. :-) 23:56:35 <Rubidium> Zuu: in the rar 23:56:56 <Zuu> Oh, sorry missed the attachment. 23:57:20 <Rubidium> so... assuming that is right, he's been using OpenTTD since 0.2.0 23:59:07 <Rubidium> maybe he meant 4 major releases, so he might have the issues since 0.5.x 23:59:28 <Rubidium> and he might just be using some patched binary