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00:08:53 *** [1]Mark [~Mark@5ED06D58.cm-7-1b.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has joined #openttd 00:08:55 *** Mark is now known as Guest5918 00:08:55 *** [1]Mark is now known as Mark 00:19:32 *** cypher [~Miranda@ip-78-45-92-37.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Quit: Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org] 00:42:55 *** MNIM [~mBuntu@ip5452ffad.adsl-surfen.hetnet.nl] has joined #openttd 01:08:29 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@193.52.24.37] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 01:11:31 *** theholyduck [~holyduck@82.147.59.59] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:11:46 *** theholyduck [~holyduck@82.147.59.59] has joined #openttd 01:14:37 <Eddi|zuHause> srslywtf... i changed something that _reduces_ code complexity, but it _increases_ the memory footprint of nmlc?!? 01:20:26 *** mastermin [~stuff@S01060023bee96928.vs.shawcable.net] has joined #openttd 01:22:18 *** KouDy [~KouDy@115.133.6.216] has joined #openttd 01:22:20 *** mastermin [~stuff@S01060023bee96928.vs.shawcable.net] has quit [autokilled: This host violated network policy. Mail support@oftc.net if you think this in error. (2012-03-12 01:23:56)] 01:31:52 *** Rhamphoryncus [~rhamph@d161-184-227-133.abhsia.telus.net] has joined #openttd 01:49:14 *** pugi_ [~pugi@host-091-097-098-236.ewe-ip-backbone.de] has joined #openttd 01:55:06 *** Biolunar [~mahdi@blfd-5d822ce2.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: All your IRC are belong to us] 01:55:12 *** pugi [~pugi@host-091-097-179-105.ewe-ip-backbone.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 01:55:13 *** pugi_ is now known as pugi 02:12:59 *** Pikka [~chatzilla@d58-111-65-161.rdl800.qld.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.88.1 [Firefox 10.0.2/20120215223356]] 02:26:46 *** kkb110__ [~kkb110@cpe-69-203-124-125.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #openttd 02:26:55 *** kkb110_ [~kkb110@cpe-69-203-124-125.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:36:26 *** supermop [~daniel_er@cpe-67-250-2-219.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #openttd 02:36:30 *** kkb110__ [~kkb110@cpe-69-203-124-125.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:38:24 *** kkb110 [~kkb110@cpe-69-203-124-125.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #openttd 03:17:59 *** supermop [~daniel_er@cpe-67-250-2-219.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: supermop] 03:33:27 *** glx [glx@2a01:e35:2f59:c7c0:c5fa:8746:5bf0:b959] has quit [Quit: bye] 03:41:38 *** pugi [~pugi@host-091-097-098-236.ewe-ip-backbone.de] has quit [] 04:50:32 *** DDR [~chatzilla@d99-199-11-52.bchsia.telus.net] has joined #openttd 04:53:46 *** tokai|noir [~tokai@port-92-195-85-25.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #openttd 04:53:49 *** mode/#openttd [+v tokai|noir] by ChanServ 04:59:05 *** tokai|mdlx [~tokai@port-92-195-62-83.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 05:01:19 *** tokai|mdlx [~tokai@port-92-195-44-25.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #openttd 05:06:35 *** tokai|noir [~tokai@port-92-195-85-25.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 05:07:19 *** tokai|noir [~tokai@port-92-195-83-242.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #openttd 05:07:22 *** mode/#openttd [+v tokai|noir] by ChanServ 05:12:35 *** tokai|mdlx [~tokai@port-92-195-44-25.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 05:15:30 *** mahmoud [~KEM@ALyon-158-1-27-54.w90-29.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #openttd 05:24:01 *** tokai|mdlx [~tokai@port-92-195-5-28.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #openttd 05:24:55 *** mahmoud [~KEM@ALyon-158-1-27-54.w90-29.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 05:30:04 *** tokai|noir [~tokai@port-92-195-83-242.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 05:54:24 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B75785.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [] 05:54:45 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B74632.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 06:03:17 *** Nat_aS [~Shep@00179a279bbd.click-network.com] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 06:09:41 *** DDR [~chatzilla@d99-199-11-52.bchsia.telus.net] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.88.1 [Firefox 10.0.2/20120216100510]] 06:26:56 *** Prof_Frink [~proffrink@02dc0652.bb.sky.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 06:29:46 *** sla_ro|master [slaco@95.76.26.172] has joined #openttd 06:38:33 *** JVassie [~James@2.27.104.165] has joined #openttd 06:54:08 *** cypher [~Miranda@wced-229-218-32-147.feld.cvut.cz] has joined #openttd 06:59:41 *** cyph3r [~Miranda@wced-229-218-32-147.feld.cvut.cz] has joined #openttd 06:59:42 *** cypher [~Miranda@wced-229-218-32-147.feld.cvut.cz] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:04:55 *** Twofish [~Twofish@77-95-76-210.bb.cust.hknett.no] has joined #openttd 07:11:28 *** Twofish [~Twofish@77-95-76-210.bb.cust.hknett.no] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 07:14:03 *** JVassie [~James@2.27.104.165] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 07:25:57 *** tokai|noir [~tokai@port-92-195-84-219.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #openttd 07:26:00 *** mode/#openttd [+v tokai|noir] by ChanServ 07:28:01 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc23-aztw25-2-0-cust33.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 07:32:00 *** tokai|mdlx [~tokai@port-92-195-5-28.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 07:40:38 <Ammler> Eddi|zuHause: how much memory would you need? 07:45:21 * andythenorth needs more memory 07:45:25 <andythenorth> I keep forgetting things :| 07:59:32 *** cyph3r [~Miranda@wced-229-218-32-147.feld.cvut.cz] has quit [Quit: Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org] 08:08:51 <Ammler> building cets likes to break the whole system awesome :-) 08:11:31 <Ammler> maybe memory increase is also related to Hirundos optimations 08:12:02 <andythenorth> Ammler: good to push boundaries ;) 08:13:13 <andythenorth> hmm 08:13:25 <Ammler> boundaries? 08:13:38 <andythenorth> system capabilities ;) 08:13:53 <andythenorth> stretching things causes improvements 08:14:06 <Ammler> yes, I rised limit from 4GB to 6 08:14:25 <Ammler> cets seems to build again 08:15:33 <andythenorth> so now I have my pixa module, but the imports have to be 'from pixa.pixa' 08:15:37 <andythenorth> do I care? 08:15:54 *** cypher [~Miranda@wced-229-218-32-147.feld.cvut.cz] has joined #openttd 08:20:37 <planetmaker> wot? compiling cets needs more than 4GB ram? 08:21:52 <planetmaker> that sounds... way too much to me 08:22:06 <SpComb> andythenorth: once you have your code split across more than one module 08:22:30 <SpComb> andythenorth: you can also have stuff in your __init__.py 08:23:15 <andythenorth> I should probably split the code up logically 08:23:24 <andythenorth> currently it's nice to only have one editor window :P 08:25:03 <Ammler> planetmaker: that is not the limit of the build, that is the limit of the whole system 08:25:27 <Ammler> build host had around 1GB 08:27:34 <andythenorth> meh 08:27:44 <andythenorth> now I have to run setup.py everytime I make a change to pixa :) 08:29:52 <Ammler> or use it like nml 08:31:13 <andythenorth> dunno how to do that 08:32:21 <Ammler> or simply exapnd PYTHONPATH 08:38:34 *** lugo [bc6f57fe@ircip1.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 08:42:38 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc23-aztw25-2-0-cust33.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 08:58:49 *** tokai|mdlx [~tokai@port-92-195-131-67.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #openttd 08:59:03 *** smoovi [~smoovi@e178192191.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #openttd 09:03:30 *** tokai|noir [~tokai@port-92-195-84-219.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 09:15:39 *** andythenorth [~Andy@78-86-194-127.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd 09:28:31 *** pjpe [ae5f3ed9@ircip1.mibbit.com] has quit [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client] 09:39:12 *** cypher [~Miranda@wced-229-218-32-147.feld.cvut.cz] has quit [Quit: Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org] 10:08:45 *** tokai [~tokai@port-92-195-70-69.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #openttd 10:08:48 *** mode/#openttd [+v tokai] by ChanServ 10:11:12 *** andythenorth [~Andy@78-86-194-127.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 10:13:18 *** tokai|noir [~tokai@port-92-195-35-219.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #openttd 10:13:21 *** mode/#openttd [+v tokai|noir] by ChanServ 10:15:18 *** tokai|mdlx [~tokai@port-92-195-131-67.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 10:18:34 *** tokai [~tokai@port-92-195-70-69.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 10:25:15 *** pugi [~pugi@host-091-097-098-236.ewe-ip-backbone.de] has joined #openttd 10:31:16 *** tokai|mdlx [~tokai@port-92-195-53-60.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #openttd 10:35:03 *** tokai|noir [~tokai@port-92-195-35-219.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 10:42:45 <dihedral> hello :-) 10:57:38 *** sla_ro|master [slaco@95.76.26.172] has quit [Quit: DANGER sla.ro is OFFLINE DANGER] 11:38:32 <Eddi|zuHause> Ammler: if the build itself "only" uses ~1GB, what's using the other 3GB? 11:39:15 <planetmaker> Redmine 11:39:24 <planetmaker> +mysql 11:40:08 *** andythenorth [~Andy@78-86-194-127.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd 11:58:04 <Ammler> I did not check the real memory usage, just guessing 11:58:15 <Ammler> but around 3GB is always reserved 11:59:37 <Ammler> hmm, gunicorn is quite a memory waster 12:00:03 <Ammler> maybe I should again test uwsgi 12:02:18 <Eddi|zuHause> not sure why the memory usage is so high, anyway. we have ca. 350k loc (~5MB) of sources. that means for every line it uses ~500kB of memory... 12:04:44 <Eddi|zuHause> btw, i have done a new profile run, after i "optimized out" the whole template calculations, now the time spent in binop.py:reduce dropped from 150s to 12s 12:05:01 <Eddi|zuHause> compare http://users.informatik.uni-halle.de/~krause/profile_cumulative2.txt and http://users.informatik.uni-halle.de/~krause/profile_cumulative.txt 12:05:29 <Eddi|zuHause> now the majority of the time is spent in the parser 12:07:33 <Eddi|zuHause> oh, i think i misread the numbers, 125k loc, which makes it even worse 12:20:15 *** tokai|noir [~tokai@port-92-195-227-152.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #openttd 12:20:18 *** mode/#openttd [+v tokai|noir] by ChanServ 12:25:44 *** tokai [~tokai@port-92-195-122-197.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #openttd 12:25:47 *** mode/#openttd [+v tokai] by ChanServ 12:26:12 *** tokai|mdlx [~tokai@port-92-195-53-60.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 12:29:33 *** tokai|noir [~tokai@port-92-195-227-152.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 12:31:22 *** Keyboard_Warrior [~holyduck@82.147.59.59] has joined #openttd 12:32:06 *** theholyduck [~holyduck@82.147.59.59] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 12:34:43 *** tokai|mdlx [~tokai@port-92-195-121-111.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #openttd 12:38:40 *** theholyduck [~holyduck@82.147.59.59] has joined #openttd 12:40:44 *** tokai [~tokai@port-92-195-122-197.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 12:41:36 *** Keyboard_Warrior [~holyduck@82.147.59.59] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 12:47:51 *** DanMacK [DanMacK@CPE602ad091690d-CM602ad091690a.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #openttd 12:48:05 <DanMacK> Hey all 12:51:18 *** KouDy1 [~KouDy@118.101.229.161] has joined #openttd 12:56:39 *** smoovi [~smoovi@e178192191.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:57:18 *** KouDy [~KouDy@115.133.6.216] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 12:59:06 *** smoovi [~smoovi@e178192191.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #openttd 13:01:03 *** DanMacK [DanMacK@CPE602ad091690d-CM602ad091690a.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [] 13:03:57 *** TGYoshi [~TGYoshi@86.81.146.146] has joined #openttd 13:05:38 <Belugas> hello 13:14:19 *** glx [glx@2a01:e35:2f59:c7c0:6196:ea76:c4c2:b9bf] has joined #openttd 13:14:22 *** mode/#openttd [+v glx] by ChanServ 13:24:34 *** Devroush [~dennis@ip-83-134-158-137.dsl.scarlet.be] has joined #openttd 13:36:33 *** theholyduck [~holyduck@82.147.59.59] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:53:45 *** tokai|noir [~tokai@port-92-195-166-249.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #openttd 13:53:49 *** mode/#openttd [+v tokai|noir] by ChanServ 13:59:54 *** tokai|mdlx [~tokai@port-92-195-121-111.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:27:23 *** cypher [~Miranda@ip-78-45-92-37.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #openttd 14:35:42 *** dorfle [~dorfle@82.113.106.250] has joined #openttd 14:36:00 <dorfle> does openttd model an economy in an interesting way 14:36:48 <rane> i've been wondering if there are some essential addons that make the game more interesting 14:42:56 <dorfle> salut rane 14:45:45 *** FLHerne [~francis_h@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has joined #openttd 14:55:10 *** cypher [~Miranda@ip-78-45-92-37.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Quit: Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org] 14:56:17 *** lugo [bc6f57fe@ircip1.mibbit.com] has quit [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client] 15:00:39 *** andythenorth [~Andy@78-86-194-127.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 15:11:07 <planetmaker> dorfle, rane: define "interesting" 15:11:40 <planetmaker> personally I'll answer 'yes' to both of your questions 15:12:54 <dorfle> i cannot define it, it's a question of opinion :) 15:16:54 *** KouDy [~KouDy@115.133.8.182] has joined #openttd 15:16:59 <Hirundo> Eddi|zuHause: Ironically, binop::reduce spends most of its time optimizing... I guess the optimization needs optimization ;-) 15:17:14 <dihedral> dorfle, yes it is interesting 15:20:37 <rane> planetmaker: no idea 15:21:52 *** Nat_aS [~Shep@00179a279bbd.click-network.com] has joined #openttd 15:22:19 *** KouDy1 [~KouDy@118.101.229.161] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:22:21 *** Zeknurn [~Zeknurn@hd9483b0c.seveveb.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has joined #openttd 15:23:17 <planetmaker> rane, then... how can anyone else answer your (implicit) question? 15:23:39 <rane> by recommending addons they've found to be an interesting addition to the game 15:24:13 <planetmaker> My suggestion for you is: look through the tt-forums. You'll find mentioned plenty 15:24:27 <planetmaker> Explore the online content. Try a few. Maybe just in a quick test game 15:24:49 <planetmaker> Or look at games, say, from the public server archive http://wiki.openttdcoop.org/PublicServer:Archive 15:25:00 <planetmaker> or also from the forums 15:25:36 <planetmaker> of course I'll recommend "my" NewGRFs... 15:27:00 *** Zeknurn` [~Zeknurn@hd9483b0c.seveveb.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:29:43 *** TrueBrain_ [~patric@ip82-139-83-21.lijbrandt.net] has joined #openttd 15:30:20 *** TrueBrain is now known as Guest5992 15:30:20 *** TrueBrain_ is now known as truebrain 15:30:25 *** truebrain is now known as TrueBrain 15:37:15 *** Guest5992 [~patric@ip82-139-89-237.lijbrandt.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:38:53 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc23-aztw25-2-0-cust33.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 15:44:19 *** tokai|mdlx [~tokai@port-92-195-105-111.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #openttd 15:45:29 *** Elukka [Elukka@78-27-90-14.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit [] 15:49:22 *** tokai [~tokai@port-92-195-213-87.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #openttd 15:49:25 *** mode/#openttd [+v tokai] by ChanServ 15:49:34 *** tokai|noir [~tokai@port-92-195-166-249.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:51:21 *** George|2 [~George@212.113.107.39] has joined #openttd 15:51:21 *** George is now known as Guest5995 15:51:21 *** George|2 is now known as George 15:52:14 *** tokai|noir [~tokai@port-92-195-151-186.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #openttd 15:52:17 *** mode/#openttd [+v tokai|noir] by ChanServ 15:53:37 *** tokai|mdlx [~tokai@port-92-195-105-111.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:53:59 *** Biolunar [~mahdi@blfd-4d083c4e.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 15:56:42 *** Guest5995 [~George@212.113.107.39] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:58:07 *** tokai [~tokai@port-92-195-213-87.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:02:35 *** evdvelde [~evdvelde@143.129.80.37] has joined #openttd 16:03:26 <evdvelde> hi all, what is the easiest way in the game to convert rail types? :-) 16:03:48 <evdvelde> I want to upgrade but converting every piece by hand seems like quite a jobe 16:03:51 <planetmaker> using the convert button 16:03:56 <planetmaker> it's a drag&drop 16:04:09 <evdvelde> planetmaker: that could take ages, not? 16:04:22 <planetmaker> dragging the whole screen is one action 16:04:36 <planetmaker> zoom out, drag whole map with convert tool. done 16:04:41 <evdvelde> and what about the trains? 16:04:45 <planetmaker> send to depot 16:04:54 <planetmaker> and replace by proper type for new track 16:05:05 <planetmaker> or if tracks are incompatible you'll have to build new ones 16:05:10 <planetmaker> in another depot. 16:05:13 <evdvelde> ah ok, so... just replace them all and it should work? 16:05:17 <planetmaker> you could share orders with old trains though 16:05:28 <evdvelde> pfew :) 16:05:34 <Eddi|zuHause> or use the universal railtype 16:06:20 <evdvelde> i have 20+ trains in an fully connected network and would hate to manually have to check each rail :) 16:06:48 *** tokai|mdlx [~tokai@port-92-195-121-13.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #openttd 16:07:06 <planetmaker> <planetmaker> zoom out, drag whole map with convert tool. done 16:07:12 <planetmaker> thus no tile needs checking 16:07:43 <evdvelde> ok thanks and then i'll have to see how fast i can change my trains 16:08:07 <TinoDidriksen> ...that's the kind of thing I turn "build while paused" on for. 16:09:22 <planetmaker> TinoDidriksen, I only wish people were upgrading or repairing infrastructure also while "paused" ;-) 16:09:32 <planetmaker> in reallife 16:11:03 *** tokai|noir [~tokai@port-92-195-151-186.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 16:11:09 <evdvelde> the other thing that bugged me in my first long openttd game was how fast some industries disappeared 16:16:48 <andythenorth> orly? :) 16:26:36 *** Prof_Frink [~proffrink@02dc0652.bb.sky.com] has joined #openttd 16:30:15 *** smoovi [~smoovi@e178192191.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:38:32 *** smoovi [~smoovi@e178219077.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #openttd 16:51:24 *** giucam [~giulio@adsl-ull-128-252.49-151.net24.it] has joined #openttd 16:51:46 <giucam> hi 16:52:42 <giucam> i really like openttd, but mostly the trains. is there an ai that builds and manages buses in the towns and connect them to my train stations? 16:54:53 <dihedral> iirc other companies cannot connect to eachothers stations 16:55:08 <dihedral> it only allows connecting to own stations 16:55:14 <dihedral> and an ai runs its own company 16:55:23 <giucam> ah 16:55:28 <giucam> too bad 16:55:33 <giucam> thanks 16:55:59 <planetmaker> There's no "play me" script for player companies 16:56:12 <planetmaker> :-) 16:56:32 <giucam> well, just "play buses for me" :) 16:56:50 <giucam> it would be a simbyotic relationship 16:56:52 <dihedral> that sounds like a job for TB :-P 16:57:04 <giucam> TB? 16:57:44 <planetmaker> dihedral, that was explicitly rejected 16:58:10 <planetmaker> especially and foremost by TB 16:58:28 <planetmaker> giucam, it's a guy :-) 16:58:37 <giucam> ah :) 16:58:47 <giucam> i though it was a project 16:59:23 <Prof_Frink> I thought it was a disease. 16:59:24 <dihedral> pm: i know ;-) 16:59:37 <planetmaker> he wrote OpenTTD's game script interface 17:01:08 <giucam> btw, is there some paper explaining ottd's pathfinder? 17:01:10 *** Mazur [~mazur@5ED04965.cm-7-1b.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:01:30 <giucam> i mean how it's implemented 17:02:06 <planetmaker> no 17:02:12 <planetmaker> There's the source code 17:02:18 <planetmaker> It's the ultimate documentation ;-) 17:02:23 <planetmaker> It's an A* path finder 17:02:52 <giucam> eh, but there are the signals 17:02:58 <giucam> (i'm talking about the trains) 17:03:10 <planetmaker> doesn't change anything of what I said 17:03:21 <planetmaker> it's just how penalties for it are chosen 17:03:32 <planetmaker> and those are in the config file 17:04:39 <giucam> i've been working on a 3d railroad sim. i could write an A* pathfinder to go from point A to point B, but i didn't know how to add in siglans 17:04:44 <giucam> *signals 17:05:26 <planetmaker> Each rail tile gets a penalty. 17:05:30 <planetmaker> Signals are on rail tiles 17:05:44 <planetmaker> Thus their presence, their type and their state may change the rail tile's value 17:05:56 <planetmaker> the path with the least penalties is the best 17:08:06 <planetmaker> path finder is called everytime a train reaches a tile where tracks branch 17:08:10 <giucam> ok, but i was calculating the path when the train starts. this won't work if a signal becomes red after it started 17:08:29 <giucam> when does openttdf calculates the path? 17:08:41 <planetmaker> ^^ :-) 17:08:42 <Rhamphoryncus> Many of those value changes only apply when a train is nearby though. That's why you can have two tracks and a train will always go along them, regardless of how loaded the other end is, but will pick a nearby one that has the least red signals 17:08:46 <glx> at each junction 17:09:13 <Rhamphoryncus> (it's more complicated than just a count of red signals, but that's the gist of it) 17:09:22 <Eddi|zuHause> <Prof_Frink> I thought it was a disease. <-- no, that's TBC :p 17:09:41 <giucam> planetmaker: oh, i didn't see your last message :) 17:09:42 <Rhamphoryncus> I thought FIRS was a disease? 17:09:43 <planetmaker> yeah. Only the next 20(?) signals or so are considered with their state 17:09:48 <Rhamphoryncus> 10 17:10:05 <Rhamphoryncus> And each is given a different weight 17:10:44 <giucam> ok 17:11:18 *** sla_ro|master [slaco@95.76.26.172] has joined #openttd 17:11:31 <giucam> i don't know if i will ever continue it, though :P 17:12:06 <Eddi|zuHause> make an OpenTT3D :) 17:12:19 <giucam> that's the idea, more or less :) 17:12:28 <Rhamphoryncus> yeah, make an opengl renderer for openttd 17:12:41 <giucam> i'd want an openttd with more track directions and with nicer looking terrain 17:12:56 <Eddi|zuHause> Rhamphoryncus: the _renderer_ isn't really that big of a problem... 17:13:10 <Rhamphoryncus> Which problem? :) 17:13:46 <giucam> it would still be 2d 17:14:51 <Rhamphoryncus> Ahh, openttd is closer to doing that than you realize, at least for the graphics 17:15:20 <giucam> you mean the terrain or the tracks? 17:15:33 <evdvelde> if you look at the overview of e.g. trains, is it possible to autogroup them by something else than All availble and Ungrouped Trains? E.g. all trains with non-electric engines 17:15:40 <Rhamphoryncus> higher resolution and colour depth for all sprites 17:15:52 <giucam> ah yes, i saw that 17:16:03 <giucam> i'm indeed playign with 32bpp 17:16:05 <planetmaker> Rhamphoryncus, it needs roughly 1500 sprites 17:16:13 <Eddi|zuHause> evdvelde: no. the last attempt at making that more flexible didn't go anywhere (yet) 17:16:23 <Rhamphoryncus> planetmaker: *nod* I need to install it and see how it works 17:16:32 <evdvelde> Eddi|zuHause: thanks for the answer, pity though :) 17:16:35 <planetmaker> install what? 17:16:38 <giucam> but that's not what i'd want 17:16:55 <Rhamphoryncus> the 32bpp stuff. Whatever stuff there is. :) 17:17:07 <planetmaker> that needs WAY more sprites (about 10k) 17:17:11 <Rhamphoryncus> I have tried the 32bpp renderers before. Sadly a significant performance penalty :/ 17:17:17 <Eddi|zuHause> Rhamphoryncus: 32bpp and extra-zoom doesn't make it 3D 17:17:18 <planetmaker> I meant 3D or rather rotation 17:17:42 <Rhamphoryncus> We all have different intentions, heh 17:18:02 <planetmaker> I don't have such intention. I just once did the maths to give people a number who "request" that feature ;-) 17:18:16 <Rhamphoryncus> heh 17:18:40 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: if you mean map rotation, what about all the newgrfs? 17:18:46 * Rhamphoryncus will break out MS Paint via wine and start drawing 17:19:07 <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause, bad luck. Disable rotation feature, if there's a NewGRF which has not set the "allow rotation" bit set 17:19:09 <Eddi|zuHause> Rhamphoryncus: do yourself a favour and start with gimp 17:19:17 <Rhamphoryncus> I was joking :) 17:19:43 <planetmaker> Thus it would require explicit NewGRF support 17:19:59 <planetmaker> One could go fancy and check for features used in the grf. 17:20:24 <planetmaker> It would only need explicit support by houses, industry tiles, airport tiles and objects. 17:20:57 <planetmaker> hm. and stations 17:21:01 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: i would definitely vote against such a feature then 17:21:07 <planetmaker> why? 17:21:13 <Rhamphoryncus> For single tile houses you could have a fallback of cheating and just reusing the directions 17:21:23 <planetmaker> Rhamphoryncus, that's ugly 17:21:34 <Rhamphoryncus> Yup, but as a fallback it works 17:21:41 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: you basically invalidate all existing newgrfs 17:21:49 <planetmaker> I'd vote against such fallback :-) 17:21:55 <planetmaker> If the NewGRF author makes it so: then it's explicit 17:22:06 <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause, no, I don't 17:22:11 <planetmaker> They all will continue to work 17:22:29 <planetmaker> And there's no way to add rotation other than this way 17:22:55 <planetmaker> or breaking it completely and adding 3D models. But that's worse wrt breaking stuff 17:22:56 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: then add no rotation at all 17:23:08 <planetmaker> I think that argument is a very weak one, Eddi|zuHause 17:23:17 <planetmaker> As really nothing breaks 17:23:33 <planetmaker> And new features generally are only supported by new NewGRFs 17:23:38 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: transparency and "terrain slicing" can do an eqivalent job, without breaking anything 17:24:13 <planetmaker> as said: nothing breaks 17:24:47 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: using an old newgrf "breaks" the rotation. from the user's point of view 17:24:47 *** evdvelde [~evdvelde@143.129.80.37] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 17:25:26 <planetmaker> it simply supports no rotation ;-) 17:25:32 <Eddi|zuHause> a user doesn't know that 17:25:48 <planetmaker> oh, he can know that. It's a matter of how it's communicated 17:26:10 <Eddi|zuHause> and then he comes to the forum 17:26:12 <Rhamphoryncus> Many dimetric games I've played have reused the same sprite for all directions. It works fine. It's not eyecandy, but it works. 17:26:23 <Rubidium> pff... we already have two rotations. Who needs any more? 17:26:24 <Eddi|zuHause> and then we tell him "either newgrf X or rotation. choose" 17:26:34 <planetmaker> yup 17:26:38 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1A7BB.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 17:26:43 <Eddi|zuHause> and then he will be disappointed 17:26:48 <planetmaker> poor user 17:26:57 <Eddi|zuHause> because the scenario he downloaded was so interesting 17:26:58 <Rhamphoryncus> Rubidium: two? 17:27:00 *** Mazur [~mazur@5ED04965.cm-7-1b.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has joined #openttd 17:27:05 <Eddi|zuHause> but he cannot update the grfs to a newer version 17:27:27 <Eddi|zuHause> because there either isn't one, or even if there was one, updating is disabled 17:27:54 <planetmaker> Current scenarios are no argument really. As they're just savegames with NewGRFs 17:28:31 <Eddi|zuHause> which is another problem. we have this fancy grf versioning, but it's effectively useless, because the GUI doesn't support updating to "compatible" versions 17:28:34 <planetmaker> I really don't like to call them scenarios tbh :-) 17:28:51 <Eddi|zuHause> anyway, gtg 17:29:10 <Rhamphoryncus> "compatible" or *compatible*? ;) 17:29:19 <planetmaker> also... I don't need more rotations ;-) 17:29:57 <Rhamphoryncus> Me either. In games that rotate I usually stick to just one so I don't get disoriented 17:30:38 <Rhamphoryncus> I do get disoriented easily though 17:31:50 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: that's another argument for not introducing rotations :p 17:33:02 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~Flex@88.130.161.248] has joined #openttd 17:37:22 <planetmaker> <planetmaker> I don't have such intention. I just once did the maths to give people a number who "request" that feature ;-) <-- I started with that statement, Eddi|zuHause ;-) 17:38:03 <planetmaker> and I don't think it's a feature out of question. It "just" needs lots of dedication. And it would not invalidate the slicing or whatever you mentioned 17:40:09 *** HerzogDeXtEr1 [~Flex@88.130.186.79] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:01:07 *** flaa [~flaa@089-101-093077.ntlworld.ie] has joined #openttd 18:09:47 *** Devedse [~Devedse@d100059.upc-d.chello.nl] has joined #openttd 18:10:46 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: 'compatible' is no such thing 18:10:58 <andythenorth> :) 18:11:04 <andythenorth> it's a meaningless claim 18:13:03 <andythenorth> for as long as one newgrf can break another... 18:13:30 <andythenorth> or for as long as 'disable self if another newgrf not present' is considered to be desirable behaviour 18:14:28 <andythenorth> I find the last case insane tbh, and think the spec should say so 18:14:49 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-590d5be1.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 18:15:30 <andythenorth> just as it's possible to write unclosed while loops - but if you do, you're considered quite an idiot 18:15:40 *** lmergen [~lmergen@5352EA70.cm-6-3d.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has joined #openttd 18:20:04 *** lmergen [~lmergen@5352EA70.cm-6-3d.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:22:53 *** lmergen [~lmergen@5352EA70.cm-6-3d.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has joined #openttd 18:28:47 *** giucam [~giulio@adsl-ull-128-252.49-151.net24.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:38:30 *** TheMask96 [martijn@polaris.ne2000.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:42:51 *** TheMask96 [martijn@polaris.ne2000.nl] has joined #openttd 18:43:32 *** pjpe [ae5f3ed9@ircip3.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 18:44:41 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: translators * r24026 /trunk/src/lang/ (13 files): (log message trimmed) 18:44:41 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0: 18:44:41 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: belarusian - 1 changes by Wowanxm 18:44:41 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: czech - 43 changes by Eskymak 18:44:41 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: dutch - 15 changes by habell 18:44:41 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: english_AU - 14 changes by tomas4g 18:44:41 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: french - 1 changes by OliTTD 18:50:02 *** Firartix [~artixds@181.140.0.93.rev.sfr.net] has joined #openttd 18:55:00 *** flaa [~flaa@089-101-093077.ntlworld.ie] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:01:53 *** flaa [~flaa@089-101-093077.ntlworld.ie] has joined #openttd 19:06:17 *** cl8 [~cl8@host-92-3-253-43.as43234.net] has joined #openttd 19:12:37 *** JVassie [~James@2.27.104.165] has joined #openttd 19:32:53 <frosch123> ... 19:33:42 <frosch123> i enter a website, then switch to a german site to get more local information, and i get a latin one .... 19:34:30 <frosch123> oh hmm, every paragraph has the same text, so i guess it just means it's not done :p 19:37:14 <planetmaker> lorem ipsum? 19:37:30 *** flaa [~flaa@089-101-093077.ntlworld.ie] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:37:32 <frosch123> yup 19:39:32 <frosch123> i just did not get it, but thought it was some swedish joke :p 19:40:15 <planetmaker> :-) 19:41:27 <frosch123> though i think it were the finish you refused to publish euroean stuff also in german some years ago, and provided latin translations instead 19:41:34 <frosch123> s/you/who/ 19:42:17 *** Belugas [~belugas@216.191.111.237] has quit [Quit: On snow, everyone can follow your traces] 19:45:24 *** Belugas [~belugas@216.191.111.237] has joined #openttd 19:45:27 *** mode/#openttd [+o Belugas] by ChanServ 19:47:48 <Terkhen> hello 19:48:11 <dorfle> hi :) 19:48:17 <planetmaker> sounds like a nice idea, frosch123, to "just" provide latin ;-) 19:54:23 *** Zuu_ [~Zuu@2.70.229.195.mobile.tre.se] has joined #openttd 19:55:48 <Zuu_> Any ideas for something to add to neighbours are important? 19:57:43 <__ln__> unable to parse sentence 19:58:02 *** dorfle [~dorfle@82.113.106.250] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:58:24 <Zuu_> Last three words are the name of a game script. 19:59:17 <frosch123> you should ask somewhere where people actually play :p 19:59:35 <Zuu_> Maybe Im as bad.as Andy on picking descriptive names ;) 20:00:23 *** brambles [brambles@79.133.200.49] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:00:26 <Zuu_> Good point frosh123 20:05:21 *** brambles [brambles@79.133.200.49] has joined #openttd 20:08:18 *** pjpe [ae5f3ed9@ircip3.mibbit.com] has quit [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client] 20:10:54 *** DDR [~chatzilla@d99-199-11-52.bchsia.telus.net] has joined #openttd 20:11:24 *** KritiK [~Maxim@176.14.206.151] has joined #openttd 20:16:32 *** Cybertinus [~Cybertinu@cybertinus.jkit.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:17:46 *** Cybertinus [~Cybertinu@cybertinus.jkit.nl] has joined #openttd 20:18:32 *** pjpe [ae5f3ed9@ircip4.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 20:18:35 <Zuu_> Hmm those at #tycoon claim that they haven't discused anything TTD related since 2005. I guess I should just use my imagnation or join a game server. 20:19:30 <orudge> Well, that's not quite true. 20:19:37 <orudge> But it's mostly a "chat" channel these days 20:19:41 <orudge> rather than a "TTD chat" channel. 20:19:46 <orudge> Very occasionally TTD discussion occurs. :p 20:21:37 <Zuu_> Okay 20:27:22 <andythenorth> I went in there once 20:27:29 <andythenorth> it didn't seem like my kind of place 20:27:36 *** TWerkhoven [~twerkhove@cpc3-linl7-2-0-cust522.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 20:27:46 <andythenorth> seemed a fair chance that I might argue with people 20:27:54 <andythenorth> or as I like to call them, 'idiots' :P 20:30:18 <frosch123> lol, zuu tried #tycoon after my comment :p 20:30:29 <frosch123> now i feel really sorry 20:30:40 <frosch123> noone should be sent to #tycoon :p 20:30:51 <Zuu_> :) 20:33:21 <Zuu_> Hehe I thought that they might be playing the game but it turned out to be an equivalent of the off-topic forum. 20:33:54 <frosch123> yup 20:34:21 <Prof_Frink> Zuu_: Don't be a silly. We make *far* less sense. 20:35:44 <Zuu_> Sorry for overestimating you :) 20:38:05 *** Pikka [~chatzilla@d58-111-65-161.rdl800.qld.optusnet.com.au] has joined #openttd 20:40:37 *** Zuu_ [~Zuu@2.70.229.195.mobile.tre.se] has quit [Quit: Bye] 20:40:55 *** Zuu_ [~Zuu@2.70.229.195.mobile.tre.se] has joined #openttd 20:41:45 <Zuu_> Oh,.... so that was a disconnect button. XD 20:43:37 <Zuu_> Did I told you that Im out of ideas on what to kill the last hour at the train with. :p 20:46:55 <__ln__> sounds violent 20:48:24 <Zuu_> Maybe I rephased "to kill some time" badly. 20:49:30 <Rhamphoryncus> uhh.. huh. Well that's amusingly wrong. Vertol in aviator set having slings? Nice. Having the occasional gmund mog as the sling for engineering supplies? Also nice. Delivering a gmond mog to an oil platform? Not so nice. ;) 20:49:59 <andythenorth> heh 20:50:04 <andythenorth> blame me for that 20:50:13 <andythenorth> I asked Pikka to add it :) 20:50:18 <Rhamphoryncus> lol 20:51:27 <Pikka> maybe they're using it to plug a hole :) 20:51:55 <Rhamphoryncus> I should join #tycoon. If you're afraid of having an argument then either I'll be completely fine.. or I'll cause a riot and be banned from the server. 20:51:56 <Rhamphoryncus> lol 20:52:04 *** lmergen [~lmergen@5352EA70.cm-6-3d.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:53:24 *** pjpe [ae5f3ed9@ircip4.mibbit.com] has quit [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client] 20:53:35 <Rhamphoryncus> Ooh, that one looks like a tractor 20:55:15 <Rhamphoryncus> I need to con someone into making a fantasy ships newgrf. Nuclear barges that can outrun small aircraft :D 20:56:29 <andythenorth> ask V453000 20:56:50 <V453000> im for sure not making ships newGRF :p 20:57:22 <Rhamphoryncus> hehe 20:57:37 <Rhamphoryncus> Is FISH really supposed to give all ships at 1870 and have them last forever? 20:59:07 <andythenorth> 'supposed' 20:59:09 <andythenorth> hmm 20:59:26 <andythenorth> is your question about an ideal world, or a 'get things done' workd? 20:59:29 <andythenorth> world /s 20:59:52 <Rhamphoryncus> Conscious decision is fine with me :) 21:00:58 <Rhamphoryncus> I'm just going to amuse myself with using ferries and paddle steamers to transport oil 21:01:48 <FLHerne> Hmm..last time I played, UKRS2 Polybulk hoppers carried milk... 21:01:48 <andythenorth> Rhamphoryncus: 1870 gave me ships to play with in my 1870-start games 21:01:57 <andythenorth> ideally I'd draw more ships :P 21:02:03 * Rhamphoryncus nods 21:02:04 <andythenorth> it's not 1.0 yet right? 21:02:11 <andythenorth> all crimes are forgiven < 1.0 21:02:19 <FLHerne> Is this fixed in FIRS 0.7/UKRS Beta? 21:02:21 <Rhamphoryncus> I am using it so I'm not complaining :) 21:02:35 *** LordAro [~lordaro@host86-137-191-29.range86-137.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 21:02:44 <andythenorth> FLHerne: you have no idea of how many worms are under that can lid you're opening.... 21:02:51 <Zuu_> Hello Lord 21:02:52 <Rhamphoryncus> I also have sailing ships but they expired a while back 21:02:53 <LordAro> evenings 21:03:15 <FLHerne> Cargo classes do seem a bit odd 21:03:32 <Yexo> you have no idea.... ;) 21:03:38 <FLHerne> Some combinations seem questionable at best... 21:03:52 <Yexo> but yes, you're right, they are questionable 21:04:01 <Yexo> and there have been a lot of very long discussions about the subject 21:04:13 <planetmaker> with emphasis on _long_ 21:04:22 <planetmaker> not necessarily resulting in anything ;-) 21:05:00 <Rhamphoryncus> Clearly we need to have more of them 21:05:10 <Rhamphoryncus> (The floggings will continue until morale improves.) 21:06:48 <LordAro> can anyone tell me how to use templates properly? http://paste.openttdcoop.org/show/1219/ 21:08:04 <rane> http://cl.ly/2S3v3g1W2C3g3S2z3515 21:08:06 <rane> what's the number? 21:08:06 <Yexo> what is your exact problem? 21:08:18 <Yexo> rane: the length of the train in tiles 21:08:37 <Yexo> if you don't use any newgrfs, the length of every engine and wagon is half a tile 21:08:56 <Yexo> you can use it to easily see whether a vehicle fits in a certain station or not 21:09:17 <Yexo> <Yexo> what is your exact problem? <- LordAro: that was for you 21:09:31 <rane> cool thanks 21:11:53 <Zuu_> It used to be a bit more complicate, but now it just shows the length in tiles. 21:12:25 <LordAro> Yexo: "...settings_gui.cpp:124:72: error: wrong number of template arguments (2, should be 3)" 21:12:44 <Yexo> which line is that? 21:13:59 <LordAro> "const BaseSet<class Tbase_set, size_t Tnum_files, bool Tsearch_in_tars>* baseset; ///< View the textfile of this BaseSet." 21:15:30 <Yexo> I'll apply your patch and make some fixes 21:15:50 <LordAro> thanks :) 21:18:43 <LordAro> note that my usage of the 'templates' differs throughout the patch, due to my attempted fixes :) 21:19:47 <LordAro> sorry :) 21:21:25 <Yexo> I'll apply your patch and make some fixes 21:23:17 <Yexo> LordAro: http://devs.openttd.org/~yexo/lordaro.diff this compiles, I didn't test it 21:23:50 *** cl8` [~cl8@host-92-3-253-43.as43234.net] has joined #openttd 21:24:01 *** cl8` [~cl8@host-92-3-253-43.as43234.net] has quit [] 21:24:22 <LordAro> thank ye kindly :D 21:24:42 <LordAro> it did work before i tried to use the templates (for sound + music), so it should be fine 21:24:50 <LordAro> _should_ 21:24:59 <Yexo> the testing part is for you :) 21:25:13 *** morph` [~morph`@78.84.121.50] has joined #openttd 21:25:51 <morph`> 1.2.0 coming out tomorrow omg omg? 21:26:18 <Yexo> where did you hear that myth? 21:26:46 <morph`> http://dsc.discovery.com/tv/mythbusters/ 21:27:25 *** Zuu_ [~Zuu@2.70.229.195.mobile.tre.se] has quit [Quit: Bye] 21:28:02 <morph`> I hoped someone would respond with "Omg how did you know?" 21:28:03 <morph`> :( 21:28:09 <morph`> Was worth a try 21:28:35 <Yexo> look at the release dates for 1.1, 1.0 and 0.7 21:28:42 <Yexo> might give you a clue :p 21:29:35 <morph`> OMG, I just found OpenTTD+Yogscast 21:29:40 <morph`> 2 of my favorite things 21:30:46 <morph`> Damn, April Fools day is so far away 21:30:48 <morph`> :( 21:31:09 <planetmaker> you know... there's an 1.2.0-RC2... 21:31:17 <planetmaker> and there are always nightly builds 21:31:23 <planetmaker> so... why do you wait? 21:31:30 <planetmaker> why do you care for a release date? :-) 21:31:38 <morph`> Because Im a caring person 21:31:47 <morph`> I cuddle stuff 21:32:02 <morph`> I cuddle this- http://apofiss.deviantart.com/gallery/ 21:32:12 <morph`> Nothing cuter on deviantart 21:32:26 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1A7BB.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:34:02 *** morph` [~morph`@78.84.121.50] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:35:26 <andythenorth> planetmaker: wrt classes, the discussion *did* result in agreeing they're "done" for FIRS :) 21:35:44 <andythenorth> and that we don't mangle them to support legacy vehicle sets 21:36:12 <planetmaker> yes. Actually it also led to deprecate the two related properties in NML 21:36:16 <andythenorth> and that labels are the only guaranteed support method :) 21:36:28 <andythenorth> and that classes are for future, unknown cargos, not known cargos :) 21:36:33 <planetmaker> so it had some positive effect 21:36:54 <andythenorth> and that the XOR mask was fricking insane for normal humans, however sane it seemed at the time 21:37:41 <andythenorth> but probably, milk still goes by covered hopper in UKRS 2 ;) 21:41:46 *** namad7 [~aaaaa@c-67-163-246-17.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:42:46 <LordAro> Yexo: it works! :D 21:43:45 * LordAro submits patch to flyspray 21:53:32 *** Zuu [~Zuu@h-114-141.a98.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #openttd 21:53:36 <LordAro> @fs 5099 21:53:36 <DorpsGek> LordAro: http://bugs.openttd.org/task/5099 21:53:41 <LordAro> ^ there you go :) 21:54:22 <frosch123> :) 21:54:28 *** TWerkhoven [~twerkhove@cpc3-linl7-2-0-cust522.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: He who can look into the future, has a brighter future to look into] 21:54:37 *** namad7 [aaaaa@c-67-163-246-17.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #openttd 21:54:51 <planetmaker> :-) 21:55:02 <planetmaker> Someone found frosch's list of wanted features :-) 21:55:14 <LordAro> indeed :P 21:55:33 <frosch123> yeah, proscription also seems to work for patches :p 21:56:03 <planetmaker> haha :-) 21:56:07 <LordAro> only took me a couple of evenings :) 21:57:20 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@193.52.24.37] has joined #openttd 22:01:23 *** Devedse [~Devedse@d100059.upc-d.chello.nl] has quit [Quit: Ik ga weg] 22:04:14 <andythenorth> I don't much like this: 22:04:23 <andythenorth> from pixa.pixa import ham, eggs, foo, bar 22:04:31 <andythenorth> pixa.pixa seems redundant 22:04:46 <andythenorth> :P 22:04:50 <valhallasw> andythenorth: it is. 22:05:05 <andythenorth> other than splitting all my code (undesirable) 22:05:08 <andythenorth> what can I do? 22:05:15 <valhallasw> andythenorth: you can solve it by having from pixa import ham, eggs, foo, bar in pixa/__init__.py 22:05:35 <valhallasw> at least, I'm guessing you have pixa.py in a subdir called pixa 22:05:43 <andythenorth> yup 22:05:46 <valhallasw> or even 'from pixa import *' in the __init__.py 22:05:54 <andythenorth> import * is bad form? 22:06:11 <valhallasw> it's ok for an __init__.py 22:06:19 <valhallasw> although I prefer the explicit import 22:06:49 <valhallasw> but especially if it's a single import it's OK, as it is clear where the names in the namespace are imported from 22:07:27 <andythenorth> \o/ 22:11:26 <frosch123> night 22:11:30 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-590d5be1.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:12:08 *** pjpe [ade6a119@ircip4.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 22:14:24 <andythenorth> bed pour moi 22:14:34 <andythenorth> ciao 22:18:35 <Arafangion> valhallasw: Trouble is... *today* it's a single import, *tomorrow* you need a new module. 22:19:34 <LordAro> night all 22:20:00 <Arafangion> 'import *' is generally very much frowned upon. 22:21:23 *** LordAro [~lordaro@host86-137-191-29.range86-137.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: "Time is an illusion. Lunchtime doubly so."] 22:21:58 <valhallasw> Arafangion: import * is very generally used for __init__.py 22:23:58 <valhallasw> the stdlib always uses explicit import as far as I can see, but e.g. django uses import * very often for __init__s 22:24:35 <Arafangion> valhallasw: Ah, django - I don't have much experience with that, but I'll conceed you could do far worse than have import * in __init__.py 22:25:24 <valhallasw> it's somewhat annoying if you don't have a good debugger/IDE, but it's not that much of a pain - and it's significantly less maintenance effort 22:25:30 <valhallasw> for django, that is 22:26:02 <valhallasw> then again, explicit is better than implicit [/zen of python] 22:26:41 <Arafangion> valhallasw: If there are lots of things I want from a given python module, I tend to prefer the 'import whatever as wh', and optionally followed by: 'foo, bar, baz = wh.foo, wh.bar, wh.baz', although I'm undecided about the latter. 22:27:34 <valhallasw> Arafangion: I generally do 'import whatever' followed by 'from whatever import foo, bar, baz' in those cases 22:28:11 <Arafangion> That's not so bad either, I should find out just how much slower that is. 22:29:35 <Arafangion> A big concern with 'import *''s, is what if they define a global you have come to expect, or redefine something from another module that you expected to have. 22:31:02 *** Rhamphoryncus [~rhamph@d161-184-227-133.abhsia.telus.net] has quit [Quit: Rhamphoryncus] 22:31:09 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc23-aztw25-2-0-cust33.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 22:31:13 <Arafangion> Eg, you could confuse os.walk with os.path.walk. 22:31:30 <valhallasw> Arafangion: I'm guessing it's not much slower, as a second import does not run any code. It might be different if you use import hooks, though. 22:31:44 <Arafangion> valhallasw: Yeah, I have all my code in a .zip :) 22:32:20 <Arafangion> But the second import does more stuff, it differs if eg, foo, bar, baz are submodules. 22:32:27 <Arafangion> My form wouldn't import them, but yours would. 22:34:37 <valhallasw> yep, that's true 22:35:13 <Arafangion> But my biggest, biggest concern, really, is that * imports tend to cause too much confusion. 22:35:21 <Arafangion> Especially with duplicate symbol names. 22:35:57 <Arafangion> Especially if someone, somewhere redefines str(), which gets import *'ed into a module, which you then import *. 22:36:04 <Arafangion> Just gets really messy. 22:36:49 <valhallasw> Yep. But again, that mainly is a problem for generic code, not so much for __init__s. 22:39:34 <Arafangion> True, but do consider that the main thing that brought this on is the annoyance of having a pixa.pixa setup. 22:40:06 <Arafangion> Which is a somewhat... Odd setup. 22:40:12 <Arafangion> Yikes, look at the time! 22:40:20 * Arafangion gets ready for work! Thanks for the chat! :) 22:40:30 <valhallasw> *grin* 22:40:33 <valhallasw> time for bed here :-) 22:40:40 <valhallasw> have a nice day! 22:40:59 *** Firartix [~artixds@181.140.0.93.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:42:58 *** pjpe [ade6a119@ircip4.mibbit.com] has quit [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client] 22:45:48 *** FLHerne [~francis_h@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has left #openttd [] 22:46:02 <Terkhen> good night 22:49:39 *** JVassie [~James@2.27.104.165] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:51:41 *** TGYoshi [~TGYoshi@86.81.146.146] has quit [Quit: Popidopidopido] 22:55:44 *** Zuu [~Zuu@h-114-141.a98.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:15:51 <Eddi|zuHause> why not just rename pixa/pixa.py to pixa/__init__.py? 23:20:16 *** sla_ro|master [slaco@95.76.26.172] has quit [Quit: DANGER sla.ro is OFFLINE DANGER] 23:25:46 *** smoovi [~smoovi@e178219077.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 23:36:54 *** Devroush [~dennis@ip-83-134-158-137.dsl.scarlet.be] has quit [] 23:37:16 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@193.52.24.37] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]