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00:10:56 *** Hazzard [~quassel@c-67-174-253-44.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #openttd 00:32:23 *** Flygon [~Flygon@147.18.214.218.sta.commander.net.au] has joined #openttd 00:36:31 *** Flygon_ [~Flygon@147.18.214.218.sta.commander.net.au] has joined #openttd 00:38:43 *** Flygon__ [~Flygon@147.18.214.218.sta.commander.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 00:43:13 *** Flygon [~Flygon@147.18.214.218.sta.commander.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 01:06:25 *** MJP [~mjp@hq.z77.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 01:24:53 *** KWKdesign [~KWKdesign@108.61.152.243] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 01:50:41 *** Ttech [~ttech@00014919.user.oftc.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:58:04 *** Ttech [~ttech@00014919.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 02:18:51 *** KWKdesign [~KWKdesign@66.55.152.51] has joined #openttd 02:36:53 *** KWKdesign [~KWKdesign@66.55.152.51] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 02:37:01 *** KWKdesign [~KWKdesign@66.55.152.51] has joined #openttd 02:38:11 *** glx [~glx@000128ec.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: Bye] 02:41:57 *** luaduck is now known as luaduck_zzz 02:59:31 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~flex@i59F6AFCA.versanet.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 03:21:24 *** KWKdesign [~KWKdesign@66.55.152.51] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:21:36 *** KWKdesign [~KWKdesign@66.55.152.51] has joined #openttd 03:23:54 *** KWKdesign [~KWKdesign@66.55.152.51] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:24:04 *** KWKdesign [~KWKdesign@66.55.152.51] has joined #openttd 03:47:05 *** pthagnar [~pthagnar@cpc7-pres17-2-0-cust28.18-3.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 04:32:40 *** KWKdesign [~KWKdesign@66.55.152.51] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 04:33:06 *** KWKdesign [~KWKdesign@pool-108-52-130-213.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #openttd 04:56:02 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p57BD42E6.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [] 04:56:16 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p5DC660F6.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 06:14:48 *** Hazzard [~quassel@c-67-174-253-44.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 06:17:22 *** Yotson [~Yotson@2001:980:6ac8:1:6cb2:45a1:5dc7:5fde] has joined #openttd 06:19:52 *** Jomann [~abchirk@p57A0AD1E.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 07:06:20 <planetmaker> moin 07:10:36 <Xaroth|Work> mornin 07:22:28 *** kero [~keikoz@37.175.28.205] has joined #openttd 07:23:56 <kero> hi 07:24:34 <kero> please: is there any way to know the total number of industries in a game other than counting them ? 07:27:38 <__ln__> you could make a statistical approximation by choosing random tiles on the map and checking whether that tile is occupied by an industry or not. 07:29:19 <kero> :) 07:29:55 <kero> Interesting concept 07:33:19 *** Eddi|zuHause2 [~johekr@p5DC660F6.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 07:33:50 *** Flygon__ [~Flygon@147.18.214.218.sta.commander.net.au] has joined #openttd 07:34:35 *** tycoondemon [~ashnohoe@ip503d7ac1.speed.planet.nl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:34:35 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p5DC660F6.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:34:35 *** Flygon_ [~Flygon@147.18.214.218.sta.commander.net.au] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:34:35 *** tycoondemon [~ashnohoe@ip503d7ac1.speed.planet.nl] has joined #openttd 07:34:35 *** Xaroth|Work [~XarothAtW@00017153.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: Reconnecting] 07:34:35 *** Xaroth|Work [~XarothAtW@194.1.204.204] has joined #openttd 07:35:03 *** DabuYu [DabuYu@128.250.79.238] has quit [] 07:38:24 *** Myhorta [~Myhorta@00018fad.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 07:43:07 *** DabuYu [DabuYu@128.250.79.238] has joined #openttd 08:25:11 *** Eddi|zuHause2 is now known as Eddi|zuHause 08:48:13 *** MJP [~mjp@hq.z77.fr] has joined #openttd 08:56:44 *** Myhorta [~Myhorta@00018fad.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 08:59:10 *** Myhorta [~Myhorta@00018fad.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 09:03:14 *** peter1138 [~petern@00013681.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 09:16:02 *** peter1138 [~petern@lachesis.fuzzle.org] has joined #openttd 09:16:05 *** mode/#openttd [+o peter1138] by ChanServ 09:23:15 *** Myhorta [~Myhorta@00018fad.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 09:32:38 *** Netsplit magnet.oftc.net <-> resistance.oftc.net quits: tparker, Ttech, eQualizer, Flygon__, Eddi|zuHause, @Belugas, Extrems, @orudge, Xaroth|Work, jonty-comp, (+33 more, use /NETSPLIT to show all of them) 09:34:31 *** Netsplit over, joins: EyeMWing, Sacro_, jonty-comp, lobster, @orudge, Xaroth|Work, tycoondemon, Flygon__, Eddi|zuHause, KWKdesign (+33 more) 09:49:44 *** Aristide [~quassel@94.70.64.86.rev.sfr.net] has joined #openttd 09:50:05 *** Aristide [~quassel@94.70.64.86.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:09:58 *** DabuYu [DabuYu@128.250.79.238] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 10:10:59 *** Brumi [~quassel@78-131-41-191.pool.digikabel.hu] has joined #openttd 10:13:31 *** DabuYu [DabuYu@128.250.79.238] has joined #openttd 10:13:44 *** tokai|noir [~tokai@00012860.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 10:13:47 *** mode/#openttd [+v tokai|noir] by ChanServ 10:19:04 *** tokai|mdlx [~tokai@port-92-195-158-221.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 10:22:19 *** Myhorta [~Myhorta@00018fad.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 10:48:49 *** yorick [~yorick@ip51cd0513.speed.planet.nl] has joined #openttd 11:02:58 <kero> is it considered as normal behaviour that the number of industries in game grows over time ? 11:03:15 <kero> (something like +25% in 20 years) 11:03:57 <planetmaker> that can be normal. Depends on several circumstances, though 11:04:22 <kero> I just checked on a perfect vanilla game 11:05:19 <planetmaker> are the industries (all) served well? 11:05:22 <kero> I don't like that. It is a non sense to start a game with very low industries, and see them increase 11:05:37 <kero> In the game I checked, no one industry was served :) 11:06:00 <kero> (i just started a game and let it go) 11:06:08 *** George [~George@185.43.94.91] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:06:22 <planetmaker> then I would the industry count to drop 11:06:34 <kero> They don't. 11:06:54 <kero> some open up, some close up. But opening are far more 11:07:07 <planetmaker> except power plants. They're bound to stay 11:07:30 <kero> in a game started in 1860, I had 400 industries. 491 in 1880. Without doing anything. 11:07:46 <planetmaker> on a map of what size? 11:07:53 <kero> 1024*1024 11:09:15 <kero> Shall we consider that there is a bug ? Not technically speaking, but at least in respect to what should be expected ? 11:11:12 <kero> Maybee more interestingly: can you indicate me in which source file that kind of issues can be checked out ? :) 11:11:29 <planetmaker> I can't. industry* I'd assume 11:11:37 <kero> I'll have a look. 11:12:25 <planetmaker> there are routines which decide on new industry placement based on current amount, 'desired' amount (overall and per industry type) 11:12:41 <planetmaker> and bonus for no "free" industries 11:13:23 <kero> what do you mean by "free" industries. = served industries ? 11:14:39 <planetmaker> "free" as in not being served yet 11:15:06 <planetmaker> if everything is served, the assumption is - iirc - that more industries are needed to keep it interesting 11:21:30 *** DabuYu [DabuYu@128.250.79.238] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:31:11 *** Supercheese [~Superchee@76.178.136.186] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:31:43 *** Supercheese [~Superchee@76.178.136.186] has joined #openttd 11:35:14 <kero> * Try to create a random industry, during gameplay 11:35:18 <kero> There we are. 11:41:35 *** DabuYu [DabuYu@128.250.79.238] has joined #openttd 12:06:33 *** urdh [urdh@00013d7a.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 12:07:18 *** KWKdesign [~KWKdesign@pool-108-52-130-213.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 12:07:59 *** KWKdesign [~KWKdesign@pool-108-52-130-213.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #openttd 12:09:20 *** pthagnar [~pthagnar@cpc7-pres17-2-0-cust28.18-3.cable.virginm.net] has joined #openttd 12:10:03 *** DabuYu [DabuYu@128.250.79.238] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 12:14:05 *** DabuYu [DabuYu@128.250.79.238] has joined #openttd 12:14:41 *** Jomann [~abchirk@p57A0AD1E.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:42:21 *** Pereba [~UserNick@179.180.222.76] has joined #openttd 12:45:33 *** gynterk [~gynter@185.7.253.17] has joined #openttd 12:46:08 *** TheMask96 [martijn@envy.vhost.ne2000.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 12:49:09 *** gynterk [~gynter@185.7.253.17] has quit [] 12:51:43 *** TheMask96 [martijn@lust.vhost.ne2000.nl] has joined #openttd 12:53:14 *** Pereba [~UserNick@179.180.222.76] has quit [Quit: AdiIRC is updating to v1.9.3 Beta Build (2014/07/11) 64 Bit] 12:53:53 *** Pereba [~UserNick@179.180.222.76] has joined #openttd 13:01:35 *** gynter [~gynter@kits.ee] has joined #openttd 13:03:22 *** gynter [~gynter@kits.ee] has quit [] 13:09:08 *** gynter [~gynter@kits.ee] has joined #openttd 13:13:32 *** gynter [~gynter@kits.ee] has quit [] 13:13:43 *** gynter [gynter@kits.ee] has joined #openttd 13:25:29 *** gynter [gynter@kits.ee] has left #openttd [] 13:27:28 *** Myhorta [~Myhorta@00018fad.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 13:27:31 *** DigitalFox [~DigitalFo@bl17-61-74.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #openttd 13:27:47 <DigitalFox> Good Afternoon :) 13:32:51 *** Myhorta [~Myhorta@00018fad.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 13:39:12 <DigitalFox> Is it possible that by adding code and the sprite to a base graphics GRF like Zbase the Close Window sprite can be changed to one like for example from the biggui? 13:40:05 <DigitalFox> Or is this something that has always to be done by a loaded GRF after the base set is loaded? 13:43:16 <planetmaker> sorry... what are you asking? 13:44:10 <DigitalFox> Well if I can add the biggui close windows sprite to zbase :o 13:44:27 <planetmaker> you can modify the base set and provide/change the sprite there. And you can always use a NewGRF, irrespective of how the base set looks like 13:45:21 <planetmaker> if you say, that zbase misses a (or a few) gui sprites: that's likely true and should be fixed in zbase 13:47:34 <DigitalFox> Right, but in BigGui the close window is defined like this: 13:47:36 <DigitalFox> replace( 143, "sprites/gui/big_gui.png") { [ 434, 776, 15, 15, 0, 0, NOCROP] } // x for window caption 13:47:37 <DigitalFox> But how can I tell what is the sprite number? 13:47:39 <DigitalFox> In zbase sprite 143 is a font. Using the sprite aligner it doesn't catch it and so no number available :\ 13:47:53 *** DabuYu [DabuYu@128.250.79.238] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 13:55:04 *** DabuYu [DabuYu@128.250.79.238] has joined #openttd 13:58:24 <V453000> lol, never go take a shit until you finished your current coding task 13:58:41 <V453000> unfinished wtf = broken wtf :D 14:00:12 <planetmaker> DigitalFox, yes, that's actually true. The close window button is indeed the X. Which is not the best choice really. And worth a patch in OpenTTD 14:00:49 <planetmaker> it's also the reason the 'X' is cut when using biggui, I think 14:02:36 <DigitalFox> I'm confused.... So you define a sprite like this -> base_graphics spr123(123, "etc... 14:03:22 <DigitalFox> I don't get the -> replace( 143, etc... How does it know what sprite number is 143 14:07:36 <DigitalFox> Or in other words how do you translate the 143 to a sprite number 14:08:41 <DigitalFox> Oh crap I get it, never mind :\ 14:10:01 <DigitalFox> So the font X is the close window sprite ah ah wow :o 14:16:10 *** tokai|mdlx [~tokai@port-92-195-6-205.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #openttd 14:16:43 <DigitalFox> My confusion was that I assumed that the replacement BigGUI was doing was not on sprite 143 but somehow other sprite number and there was a conversion along the way, I never thought a font X was the sprite, thank god I don't use the default font or my X would look huge in plain text ;) 14:18:50 <DigitalFox> Thank you, you guys are the best :) 14:22:29 *** tokai|noir [~tokai@00012860.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:31:06 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~flex@88.130.181.244] has joined #openttd 14:37:58 <xintron> For oil tankers, should I transfer the cargo or just unload (for being transported by train to the refinery)? 14:46:20 *** brambles [~xymox@s0.barwen.ch] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:49:33 *** Pereba_ [~UserNick@187.59.170.215] has joined #openttd 14:51:38 *** APTX_ [~APTX@aptx.org] has joined #openttd 14:53:58 *** APTX [~APTX@87-207-72-117.dynamic.chello.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:54:04 *** Pereba [~UserNick@179.180.222.76] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:54:07 *** Pereba_ is now known as Pereba 15:01:03 *** George [~George@185.43.94.91] has joined #openttd 15:02:11 *** APTX_ [~APTX@aptx.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:13:28 *** kero [~keikoz@37.175.28.205] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:13:34 *** luaduck_zzz is now known as luaduck 15:18:15 *** KWKdesign [~KWKdesign@pool-108-52-130-213.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 15:18:16 *** KWKdesign [~KWKdesign@pool-108-52-130-213.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #openttd 15:21:54 *** kero [~keikoz@37.175.29.64] has joined #openttd 15:25:00 *** APTX [~APTX@aptx.org] has joined #openttd 15:28:02 *** Pereba [~UserNick@187.59.170.215] has quit [Quit: "Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better" Samuel Beckett [www.adiirc.com]] 15:31:09 *** Brumi [~quassel@78-131-41-191.pool.digikabel.hu] has quit [] 15:48:28 *** Pensacola [~quassel@h220216.upc-h.chello.nl] has joined #openttd 16:02:43 *** DigitalFox [~DigitalFo@bl17-61-74.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90.1 [Firefox 30.0/20140605174243]] 16:03:59 *** Alberth [~hat@2001:981:c6c5:1:be5f:f4ff:feac:e11] has joined #openttd 16:04:02 *** mode/#openttd [+o Alberth] by ChanServ 16:07:03 *** glx [~glx@000128ec.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 16:07:06 *** mode/#openttd [+v glx] by ChanServ 16:20:37 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-4d0117f4.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 16:22:39 <Alberth> evenink 16:24:11 <frosch123> hai 16:28:01 <V453000> hi :) 16:28:54 *** yorick [~yorick@ip51cd0513.speed.planet.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:38:45 *** Stimrol [~Stimrol@46-239-219-51.tal.is] has quit [Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in] 16:41:51 *** Stimrol [~Stimrol@46-239-219-51.tal.is] has joined #openttd 17:03:39 *** Klanticus [~quassel@189.35.184.212] has joined #openttd 17:15:25 *** gelignite [~gelignite@i528C3AB8.versanet.de] has joined #openttd 17:24:34 *** Pol [~quassel@h220216.upc-h.chello.nl] has joined #openttd 17:29:04 *** Pensacola [~quassel@h220216.upc-h.chello.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:30:48 *** Sacro_ is now known as Sacro 17:33:29 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@0001288e.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 17:33:45 *** Mucht [~Martin@000128e2.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 17:33:54 <Wolf01> hai o/ 17:34:33 *** Pol [~quassel@h220216.upc-h.chello.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:35:29 *** yorick [~yorick@i247160.upc-i.chello.nl] has joined #openttd 17:35:33 <Alberth> welcome 17:39:35 *** chester_ [~chester@128-68-71-78.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #openttd 17:45:09 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1B770.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 17:45:35 <DorpsGek> Commit by translators :: r26683 /trunk/src/lang (hebrew.txt malay.txt) (2014-07-11 17:45:27 UTC) 17:45:36 <DorpsGek> -Update from WebTranslator v3.0: 17:45:37 <DorpsGek> hebrew - 6 changes by oofnik 17:45:38 <DorpsGek> malay - 3 changes by TheITChap 17:48:45 *** oskari89 [oskari89@83-102-63-32.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined #openttd 17:50:32 *** Pereba [~UserNick@187.59.170.215] has joined #openttd 18:04:18 *** DabuYu [DabuYu@128.250.79.238] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:29:53 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc10-aztw26-2-0-cust867.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has joined #openttd 18:30:20 <andythenorth> o/ 18:35:14 <Alberth> hi hi 18:39:20 *** Aristide [~quassel@2a01:e35:2eb9:64b0:d419:d1f1:d675:bdd4] has joined #openttd 18:39:39 <andythenorth> where is cat? 18:41:39 <Alberth> hunting moo 18:42:16 *** DabuYu [DabuYu@128.250.79.238] has joined #openttd 18:51:55 *** Klanticus_ [~quassel@200-161-120-132.dsl.telesp.net.br] has joined #openttd 18:56:00 *** Klanticus [~quassel@189.35.184.212] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:10:13 *** Aristide [~quassel@2a01:e35:2eb9:64b0:d419:d1f1:d675:bdd4] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:12:07 <andythenorth> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ntEjsIaGIvc 19:12:09 <andythenorth> Mu 19:13:21 *** Fuco [foobar@server.dasnet.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:14:01 <frosch123> "mumu" means something else in german 19:25:33 <andythenorth> I wonât ask 19:25:41 <andythenorth> shall we make a train game 19:25:43 <andythenorth> ? 19:25:47 <andythenorth> I heard theyâre popular 19:36:47 *** Fuco [foobar@server.dasnet.cz] has joined #openttd 19:37:02 *** yorick [~yorick@i247160.upc-i.chello.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:37:05 <Alberth> what about a city-sim? 19:37:10 <Supercheese> A Game of Trains 19:37:46 <Supercheese> Company managers are killed off every six years or so 19:38:21 <Alberth> luckily, I only build new tracks, and move existing ones 19:38:41 *** kero [~keikoz@37.175.29.64] has quit [Quit: kero] 19:38:54 <Alberth> although I play with breakdowns enabled, which is considered to be a deadly sin by some 19:39:07 <Supercheese> not so much sin as annoyance 19:41:56 <andythenorth> deadly sin 19:43:55 <andythenorth> hmm 19:44:01 <andythenorth> I was figuring out string IDs 19:47:30 <andythenorth> probably incorrectly 19:58:27 *** Klanticus_ [~quassel@200-161-120-132.dsl.telesp.net.br] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:59:15 *** tokai|noir [~tokai@00012860.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 19:59:18 *** mode/#openttd [+v tokai|noir] by ChanServ 20:03:51 *** DabuYu [DabuYu@128.250.79.238] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:05:02 <Alberth> andythenorth: fyi, I just pushed 2 typo fixes in the FIRS readme 20:05:04 *** tokai|mdlx [~tokai@port-92-195-6-205.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:05:09 <andythenorth> thanks :) 20:05:12 * andythenorth -> bed 20:05:15 <Alberth> gn 20:05:29 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc10-aztw26-2-0-cust867.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 20:07:41 *** Jomann [~abchirk@p57A0AD1E.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 20:18:43 *** DabuYu [DabuYu@128.250.79.238] has joined #openttd 20:22:55 <V453000> Error: Using {P} without a ##plural pragma 20:22:56 <V453000> wat :D 20:23:48 <planetmaker> yeah :) 20:23:55 <planetmaker> check eints documentation 20:24:00 <V453000> I just removed the Ps 20:24:34 <Alberth> that works too :) 20:25:28 <V453000> btw maybe 32bpp does not have to inform about pure white? :P 20:27:27 *** yorick [~yorick@ip51cd0513.speed.planet.nl] has joined #openttd 20:36:46 <V453000> how many 256-ticks does make a month? :D 20:37:00 <V453000> 25*256? 20:37:07 <V453000> ish 20:37:52 <planetmaker> a day is 74 ticks 20:38:11 <planetmaker> the industry callback every 256 ticks is thus called 8 or 9 times. Depends 20:38:20 <Diablo-D3> whatever happened to that day/night cycle thing? 20:38:25 <Diablo-D3> I remember somebody working on it 20:38:32 <V453000> right :) 20:38:36 <V453000> strange :D 20:38:45 <planetmaker> people who used it got caught by epileptic ceisures and could not continue it, Diablo-D3 20:38:57 <planetmaker> too much blinking ;) 20:39:03 <Diablo-D3> lol 20:39:42 <Diablo-D3> thats another thing 20:39:45 <Diablo-D3> why is openttd time so fast 20:40:03 <Eddi|zuHause> "somebody working on it"... was that 10 years ago, by any chance? 20:40:19 *** Pereba [~UserNick@187.59.170.215] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:40:38 <Diablo-D3> Eddi|zuHause: yeah probably 20:41:40 <Diablo-D3> "I currently run openttd 7.1" 20:41:58 <Diablo-D3> that post still makes me lol 20:42:42 <Eddi|zuHause> things needed for a decent day-night cycle: (1) a 24h clock (visual only, or for timetabling). (2) a 32bpp blitter to automatically shade colours. (3) a "light mask" for sprites, which will add glowing effects 20:43:03 <Diablo-D3> Eddi|zuHause: well, you wouldnt technically need 32bit blitter 20:43:10 <frosch123> (4) and option to disable it 20:43:15 <Diablo-D3> it could be done with palette modification 20:43:26 <Eddi|zuHause> Diablo-D3: palette is fixed 20:43:26 <frosch123> day-night and weather are the worst thing in games 20:43:35 <Diablo-D3> Eddi|zuHause: cant be rotated while running? 20:43:43 *** Pereba [~UserNick@187.59.170.215] has joined #openttd 20:43:51 <Eddi|zuHause> Diablo-D3: it could, but effect would be instant 20:43:51 <planetmaker> Diablo-D3, doing that in 8bpp is redrawing everything. 32bpp doing that is way less work 20:44:14 <Eddi|zuHause> instead of gradual, which one would expect 20:44:15 * Diablo-D3 <3s 8bit palette tricks 20:44:33 <Diablo-D3> Eddi|zuHause: yeah, but you'd keep updating the palette to continually darken it 20:45:07 <Eddi|zuHause> Diablo-D3: that might easily become TMWFTLB 20:45:21 <Diablo-D3> yeah maybe 20:45:58 <Eddi|zuHause> and you won't have access to bloom shader and stuff for glowy effects 20:46:13 <Diablo-D3> yeah that I wouldnt 20:46:18 *** Jomann [~abchirk@p57A0AD1E.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:46:30 <Diablo-D3> and we'd probably need GL blitters finally 20:46:43 <Diablo-D3> so it'd be simple to pixel shade the glow 20:47:15 <Eddi|zuHause> anyway. neither of these 3 things show any signs of happening in the near or medium future 20:47:31 <Diablo-D3> actually 20:47:38 <Diablo-D3> why isnt there just a plain GL blitter yet? 20:47:39 <frosch123> there is night-gfx btw 20:47:48 <Diablo-D3> software renders and then blits it to a texture and paints it on a single quad? 20:47:51 <Eddi|zuHause> Diablo-D3: performance was suboptimal 20:47:55 <frosch123> Diablo-D3: because GL is not suitable for ottd graphics 20:48:07 <Diablo-D3> Eddi|zuHause: on which targets, though? 20:48:14 <Diablo-D3> on fglrx, it will be vastly superior performance 20:48:27 <frosch123> proof it :) 20:48:38 <Diablo-D3> frosch123: its a known issue with fglrx, it doesnt do XAA well 20:48:48 <Diablo-D3> so a lot of plain X11 apps are absolute shit 20:49:19 <Diablo-D3> any sufficiently accelerated app is fine (modern gtk and qt use stuff like cairo which can hw accelerate drawing) 20:49:27 <Eddi|zuHause> Diablo-D3: try windows first. then worry about other stuff. 20:49:27 <Diablo-D3> and SDL, sadly, isnt sufficiently modern 20:49:32 <Diablo-D3> Eddi|zuHause: yeah, I dont use windows 20:49:40 <Diablo-D3> on windows its probably fine 20:49:52 <Alberth> proof it 20:49:56 <Eddi|zuHause> Diablo-D3: neither do i, but that's what the majority of players use 20:50:07 <Diablo-D3> Eddi|zuHause: yeah, it sucks when the majority of players are wrong =/ 20:50:16 <planetmaker> why are they wrong? 20:50:20 <Diablo-D3> planetmaker: windows. 20:50:22 <planetmaker> it works for them just fine 20:50:40 <planetmaker> why do you think that your way is right and theirs is wrong? 20:50:59 <Alberth> gn 20:51:04 <planetmaker> night, Alberth :) 20:51:09 <Diablo-D3> well, I guess if they WANT a crashing, broken, slow computer that is a host to a multitude of viruses 20:51:14 <Diablo-D3> windows is great 20:51:24 <Diablo-D3> the rest of us, however, just want to get shit done 20:51:36 *** Alberth [~hat@2001:981:c6c5:1:be5f:f4ff:feac:e11] has left #openttd [] 20:52:05 <planetmaker> Diablo-D3, that attitude is just as bad as "how can you use anything else than windows? It's all just so complicated and has sucky user experience" 20:52:46 <planetmaker> modern windows (7 or 8) are actually also pretty stable. Much better than previous versions 20:53:01 <Diablo-D3> I have 8.1 pro in a VM, Im well aware what it can do 20:53:31 <Diablo-D3> I tried running it in xen with pci-e passthrough, and thats still a massive failtrain 20:53:33 <Diablo-D3> thanks microsoft! 20:53:52 <frosch123> anyway, there have been 20+ guys claiming that GL would be great. there have been 5+ patches implementing it, and they all performed terrible 20:54:02 <frosch123> so, sorry if we do not party your suggestion :p 20:54:04 <Diablo-D3> frosch123: depends entirely on what platform 20:54:08 <Diablo-D3> frosch123: on windows there is no point 20:54:15 <Diablo-D3> you're doing the equivalent on windows vista and up 20:54:37 <Diablo-D3> pure 2D apps that cant be accelerated are drawn to a shadow buffer that uses the same methodology to accelerate drawing that on the screen 20:54:45 <Diablo-D3> shadow buffer -> texture -> quad. 20:55:09 <Diablo-D3> on osx, there is also no point, because SDL uses OSX's appropriate mechanism for this by default 20:55:23 <Diablo-D3> and on foss drivers, there is no point, because they properly implement EXA. 20:55:28 <planetmaker> you're arguing based on wrong assumptions, Diablo-D3 20:55:34 <Diablo-D3> its only on nvidia and fglrx it would make a difference 20:55:55 <Diablo-D3> _now_ SDL _should_ implement a flat GL driver 20:56:01 <Diablo-D3> and I think SDL 2.0 finally did 20:56:09 <Diablo-D3> openttd just doesnt use SDL 2.0 yet. 20:56:20 <planetmaker> then write a openttd-sdl-2.0 video driver 20:56:32 <Diablo-D3> planetmaker: is openttd on github yet? 20:57:18 *** Stimrol [~Stimrol@46-239-219-51.tal.is] has quit [Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in] 20:57:21 <V453000> btw graphics people usually dont use linux, so unless you want openttd to be just code you will have to be more friendly to windoze Diablo-D3 :P 20:57:36 <Diablo-D3> V453000: well, I think you misunderstood the point of SDL 20:57:38 <planetmaker> graphics people usually use mac ;) 20:57:59 <V453000> that is usually print stuff / photo industry pm 20:57:59 <Diablo-D3> V453000: it wraps all the graphics and sound APIs and exposes it as a single most common denominator. 20:58:08 <V453000> 3D and stuff is windows usually 20:58:28 <Diablo-D3> V453000: SDL also exposes a GL context creation wrapper (ie, WGL, AGL, GLX, etc) 20:58:44 <V453000> I have no idea about any of the shortcuts you just used 20:58:52 * Diablo-D3 sighs. 20:59:07 <frosch123> Diablo-D3: there is git.openttd.org 20:59:30 <planetmaker> V453000, nor do I, tbh ;) some graphics extensions, probably supported by a few graphics cards. Dunno 20:59:32 <frosch123> ottd does not use external sites for services 20:59:37 <Diablo-D3> V453000: summary: SDL makes my code run on all platforms because I know how to use SDL. 20:59:46 <frosch123> openttd.org was created based on terrible experiences with sf 20:59:55 <Diablo-D3> planetmaker: they're not extensions, they're context creation APIs 20:59:57 <frosch123> and after that there was no reason to move 21:00:04 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc10-aztw26-2-0-cust867.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has joined #openttd 21:00:06 <Diablo-D3> planetmaker: GL is universal, but GL never defined a context creation API until GL 3.x 21:00:28 <Diablo-D3> planetmaker: so you call WGL, AGL, GLX, etc to actually "make a window". 21:01:49 <planetmaker> and then you only solved it for linux but not for windows and osx ;) 21:02:05 <Diablo-D3> planetmaker: uh, no? 21:02:25 <Diablo-D3> if you use SDL as the context creation API, your GL code works on any OS supported by SDL's GL shit 21:02:31 <Diablo-D3> which is all three of the ones we care about 21:02:34 <planetmaker> yeah. Unless you want to start using SDL also for windows and OSX - and find out that the overall graphics performance of OpenTTD dropped ;) 21:02:46 <Diablo-D3> wait, openttd doesnt use sdl for windows and osx?! 21:02:51 <planetmaker> no 21:03:02 <Diablo-D3> then why use sdl at all?! 21:03:06 <planetmaker> as I said, you base your arguments on wrong assumptions :) 21:03:09 <Diablo-D3> the whole point of using sdl is so you write it once! 21:03:38 <Diablo-D3> and btw, if your overall graphics performance dropped on windows and osx, you're using sdl wrong 21:03:47 <frosch123> make it better :) 21:03:54 <planetmaker> yeah, make it better 21:03:55 <Diablo-D3> but thats not unusual, a lot of people cant read the manual 21:04:00 * Diablo-D3 used to sit in #sdl for years 21:04:01 <frosch123> as said before, you are stating what 20 people stated before, but noone delivered 21:04:09 <planetmaker> you can build openttd-with-sdl on OSX. I tested it. It's aweful compared to the native driver 21:04:13 <Diablo-D3> frosch123: I dont work on projects I use as a rule. 21:04:46 <Diablo-D3> planetmaker: I can output 60fps at 1920x1200 on a rather shit computer running osx 21:04:51 <Diablo-D3> on SDL 21:05:01 <frosch123> using how many objects? 21:05:11 <planetmaker> 1 ;) 21:05:13 <Diablo-D3> no, Im talking raw blit performance 21:05:31 <frosch123> well, you are talking about frames 21:05:36 <Diablo-D3> openttd should only be doing one blit per frame anyhow 21:05:44 <Diablo-D3> due to its use of an optimized blitter internally 21:05:46 <frosch123> which means redrawing everything for every frame 21:05:50 <frosch123> which is not what ottd does 21:05:58 <frosch123> ottd does differential updated of small areas 21:06:01 <Diablo-D3> frosch123: no, it just makes openttd wrong 21:06:09 <Diablo-D3> differential updates is not optimal on modern hardware 21:06:12 <Diablo-D3> hasnt been so for about a decade 21:06:21 <frosch123> proof it :) 21:06:31 <Diablo-D3> btw, the word is prove 21:06:43 <frosch123> isn't that the noun? 21:07:16 <Diablo-D3> no, proof is the noun. 21:07:25 <Diablo-D3> afk 21:11:00 *** Yotson [~Yotson@2001:980:6ac8:1:6cb2:45a1:5dc7:5fde] has quit [Quit: .] 21:13:28 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc10-aztw26-2-0-cust867.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 21:15:13 *** Myhorta [~Myhorta@00018fad.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:23:40 <planetmaker> he's right about the proof (n) / prove (v) 21:25:32 <frosch123> well, i wondered before typing it the first time 21:25:39 <frosch123> but apparently decided for the other :p 21:32:17 <V453000> hm 21:32:17 <Wolf01> 'night 21:32:22 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@0001288e.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.] 21:32:25 <V453000> my grf compiles, but it throws an error when loading it in the game 21:32:36 <V453000> attempt to use invalid ID (sprite 1132) 21:32:43 <V453000> which is sone | snow tile monorail 21:32:45 <V453000> some 21:32:50 <V453000> what could cause that? 21:36:06 <V453000> possible that I simply have too many sprites? 21:36:10 <V453000> I did not even add animations yet :D 21:38:26 <peter1138> i think you need 16 million for that 21:38:33 <frosch123> it's not related to "real sprites" 21:38:38 <V453000> indeed, that is what I thought 21:38:45 <V453000> what could it be then frosch123 ? 21:38:54 <V453000> I did some trying and if I remove one industry, it works 21:38:56 <frosch123> it is refering to industry/vehicle ids and simialr 21:38:58 <V453000> any one industry 21:39:11 <V453000> so it is not some one special industry that would break it 21:39:19 <frosch123> maybe you missed setting the "subsitute" 21:39:41 <frosch123> it may need to be the first thing in the "item" 21:39:52 <V453000> substitute: 0 all of them have it 21:40:45 <V453000> both in industry tile and in industry item 21:42:59 <frosch123> how many industries did you define? :p 21:43:03 <frosch123> there is a max of 64 or so 21:43:03 <V453000> 16 21:43:27 *** tokai|mdlx [~tokai@port-92-195-97-37.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #openttd 21:45:35 <V453000> hmmm yeah the last industry does not load if I just let it do its thing 21:45:48 <V453000> coincidentally the last one is the worker yard which is most key XD 21:47:00 *** tokai [~tokai@00012860.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 21:47:03 *** mode/#openttd [+v tokai] by ChanServ 21:47:47 *** tokai|mdlx [~tokai@port-92-195-97-37.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 21:50:04 *** tokai|noir [~tokai@00012860.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:50:51 *** tokai|mdlx [~tokai@port-92-195-51-179.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #openttd 21:52:25 *** oskari89 [oskari89@83-102-63-32.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit [] 21:53:16 *** tokai|noir [~tokai@00012860.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 21:53:19 *** mode/#openttd [+v tokai|noir] by ChanServ 21:55:09 *** tokai [~tokai@00012860.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:57:25 <V453000> uhmmm and accepted_cargos: [[YETI, VEHI]]; cant have 3 things? 21:57:49 <V453000> like accepted_cargos: [[GRVL, CLAY, WOOD]] 21:57:55 <frosch123> it can, but why do you use doulbe {{ ? 21:58:03 <frosch123> err [[ 21:58:04 <V453000> idk I had it that way :D 21:59:04 *** tokai|mdlx [~tokai@port-92-195-51-179.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:59:24 <V453000> AHA 21:59:27 <V453000> cargoid and amount 22:00:03 <frosch123> ah, for tiles 22:00:40 <V453000> does that mean that if I use [YETI, 1], the station needs to cover 8 tiles in order to accept stuf? 22:00:47 <V453000> instead of 1? 22:02:13 <frosch123> yes 22:02:25 <V453000> quite interesting :) 22:02:31 <frosch123> i believe firs gives all tiles acceptance 8 22:02:33 <V453000> station would have to be closer 22:02:33 *** Myhorta [~Myhorta@00018fad.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 22:02:34 <frosch123> to reduce player confusion 22:02:40 <V453000> yeah 22:02:42 <V453000> I guess :) 22:02:44 <frosch123> a lot of players fail to properly cover industries 22:02:51 <V453000> aye 22:11:17 <V453000> it works =D 22:11:26 <V453000> the currently biggest problem is the ID error 22:11:31 <V453000> which I have totally no clue why 22:14:39 <frosch123> well, comment out some lines until it works, and then readd them one by one 22:14:51 <V453000> I commented out the whole industry 22:15:08 <V453000> I dont have a sprite for one anyway :P 22:15:26 <frosch123> the "sprite" does not refer to graphics 22:15:32 <frosch123> but to the source line in the nfo 22:15:39 <V453000> aha 22:15:43 <frosch123> in nfo source lines are called "sprite" 22:16:23 <frosch123> it's the "crash address" if you want so :p 22:16:35 <V453000> still the strange thing is that it does not matter which industry I comment out 22:16:41 <V453000> sooo how do I get that line? 22:16:49 <V453000> well the error number seems to remain the same 22:17:38 <frosch123> @calc 64-37 22:17:38 <DorpsGek> frosch123: 27 22:18:14 <frosch123> you could start ottd with "-d grf=9" 22:18:19 <frosch123> maybe it tells you more 22:18:31 <V453000> uhm how do I do that under windoze :D 22:18:43 <frosch123> how do you usally start ottd? 22:18:52 <V453000> clicking a thing? :D 22:19:03 <frosch123> copy the icon, then edit properties 22:19:12 <frosch123> it should have a "comand line" somewhere 22:19:19 <frosch123> there you can add parameters 22:19:29 <V453000> did it through command line 22:19:30 <frosch123> i do not remember whether command line and parameters are one entry, or two though 22:19:33 <V453000> it is loading all my grfs 22:19:39 <V453000> shitload of them :) 22:19:44 <frosch123> yeah, grfscan :p 22:19:50 <V453000> yes 22:19:54 <frosch123> only watch it when loading your test game :p 22:20:36 <V453000> well yeah, it is just still starting the game due to it :D 22:21:01 <V453000> guess having 72 Nuts versions with like 50k sprites each isnt helping 22:22:08 <frosch123> maybe it's faster if you minimize the window or something 22:23:15 *** DabuYu [DabuYu@128.250.79.238] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:24:04 <V453000> hm XD 22:24:09 <V453000> it doesnt like nuts 22:32:10 <frosch123> night 22:32:14 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-4d0117f4.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: be yourself, except: if you have the opportunity to be a unicorn, then be a unicorn] 22:32:47 *** yorick [~yorick@ip51cd0513.speed.planet.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:35:19 *** DabuYu [DabuYu@128.250.79.238] has joined #openttd 22:43:03 *** Chrill [Chrill@c83-255-24-53.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #openttd 22:57:18 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1B770.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:01:24 *** tokai|mdlx [~tokai@port-92-195-126-131.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #openttd 23:04:34 *** tokai|noir [~tokai@00012860.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:11:05 *** Chrill [Chrill@c83-255-24-53.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [] 23:11:33 *** Hazzard [~quassel@c-67-174-253-44.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #openttd 23:55:55 *** Myhorta [~Myhorta@00018fad.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:56:55 *** DabuYu [DabuYu@128.250.79.238] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]