Times are UTC Toggle Colours
00:01:01 *** Stimrol [~Stimrol@46-239-219-51.tal.is] has joined #openttd 00:07:55 *** SylvieLorxu [~sylvie@dhcp-077-251-165-191.chello.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:19:38 *** guru3_ [~guru3@90-230-86-71-no225.tbcn.telia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 00:45:51 *** Supercheese [~Superchee@76.178.136.186] has joined #openttd 00:48:55 *** Myhorta [~Myhorta@00018fad.user.oftc.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:11:26 *** Flygon_ [~Flygon@147.18.214.218.sta.commander.net.au] has joined #openttd 01:15:37 *** glx [~glx@000128ec.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: Bye] 01:17:53 *** Flygon [~Flygon@147.18.214.218.sta.commander.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 01:20:03 *** Flygon_ [~Flygon@147.18.214.218.sta.commander.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 01:47:38 *** luaduck is now known as luaduck_zzz 01:53:31 *** DDR [~kvirc@S010600254bbe4e1c.vc.shawcable.net] has joined #openttd 02:03:09 *** Pikka [~Octomom@d58-106-43-139.rdl801.qld.optusnet.com.au] has joined #openttd 02:18:07 *** keoz [~keikoz@pha75-1-81-57-54-15.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 02:55:59 *** KWKdesign [~KWKdesign@pool-108-52-130-213.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:56:13 *** KWKdesign [~KWKdesign@pool-108-52-130-213.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #openttd 03:02:01 *** Flygon [~Flygon@147.18.214.218.sta.commander.net.au] has joined #openttd 03:25:38 *** ccfreak2k [~ccfreak2k@2605:6400:2:fed5:22:0:6979:842d] has quit [Quit: ZNC - http://znc.sourceforge.net] 03:33:23 *** ccfreak2k [~ccfreak2k@2600:3c01::f03c:91ff:fe50:2dcb] has joined #openttd 03:54:04 *** HerzogDeXtEr1 [~flex@i59F6DFB6.versanet.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 04:44:51 *** LSky` [~LSky@5ED4B2EA.cm-7-5c.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has joined #openttd 04:56:01 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p57BD499B.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [] 04:56:16 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p5DC67D47.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 05:12:33 *** Hazzard [~quassel@c-67-174-253-44.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:13:43 *** smurf [~smurf@2001:780:107:0:1278:d2ff:fea3:d4a6] has joined #openttd 05:33:08 *** DDR [~kvirc@S010600254bbe4e1c.vc.shawcable.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:33:30 *** DDR [~kvirc@S010600254bbe4e1c.vc.shawcable.net] has joined #openttd 05:40:51 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~flex@i59F6DFB6.versanet.de] has joined #openttd 06:00:13 *** DDR [~kvirc@S010600254bbe4e1c.vc.shawcable.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:02:36 *** oskari89 [oskari89@83-102-63-32.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined #openttd 06:25:38 *** HerzogDeXtEr1 [~flex@88.130.178.20] has joined #openttd 06:25:50 *** Zmastershabeeb [~zmshabeeb@24.145.48.206] has joined #openttd 06:30:54 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~flex@i59F6DFB6.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 06:31:09 *** sla_ro|master [~sla.ro@89.137.74.191] has joined #openttd 06:56:02 *** guru3 [~guru3@000128ea.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 06:56:22 *** oskari89 [oskari89@83-102-63-32.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit [] 07:26:11 *** jpierre03_ [~jpierre03@5275675.test.dnsbl.oftc.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:28:49 *** jpierre03_ [~jpierre03@voyage.prunetwork.fr] has joined #openttd 07:33:35 *** FLHerne [~flh@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has joined #openttd 07:37:14 *** Zmastershabeeb [~zmshabeeb@24.145.48.206] has quit [Quit: leaving] 07:49:10 *** ccfreak2k [~ccfreak2k@2600:3c01::f03c:91ff:fe50:2dcb] has quit [Quit: ZNC - http://znc.sourceforge.net] 07:51:51 *** ccfreak2k [~ccfreak2k@2600:3c01::f03c:91ff:fe50:2dcb] has joined #openttd 08:08:53 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p5DC67D47.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [] 08:14:31 *** looptrooper [~looptroop@2a02:8071:683:7b01:bc5a:255b:6a7d:aa5c] has joined #openttd 08:15:15 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p5DC67D47.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 08:20:23 *** keoz [~keikoz@pha75-1-81-57-54-15.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #openttd 09:05:24 *** Brumi [~quassel@78-131-41-191.pool.digikabel.hu] has joined #openttd 09:16:19 <Eddi|zuHause> hm weird. i set up a raid in bios, but it won't show up in linux 09:16:31 <Eddi|zuHause> also, the bios seems to have a 2TB bug 09:17:54 <Eddi|zuHause> also, i tried to flash the bios, but it says "bios id error", indicating i downloaded the wrong model... but i triple checked... 09:19:12 <peter1138> so it's just a software raid then 09:19:43 <peter1138> use md raid 09:19:50 <V453000> why woyuld you setup a raid boss 09:20:30 <planetmaker> for the drops, obviously 09:20:34 <TinoDidriksen> Hardware RAID is dangerous. Unless you have several of the exact same card laying around for when it fries, just use software RAID. 09:20:42 <Eddi|zuHause> internet says it's better when you want to access it from windows 09:21:04 <Eddi|zuHause> TinoDidriksen: it's not an actual hardware raid 09:21:23 <peter1138> then you just answered your own question :p 09:21:39 <Eddi|zuHause> peter1138: that was not the question... 09:21:49 <peter1138> well it wasn't even a question 09:22:15 <peter1138> linux mostly does not bother supporting fakeraid 09:22:18 <V453000> probably some high lvl pwnzor raid 09:22:31 <__ln__> http://yle.fi/uutiset/supermarket_website_crashes_as_finns_clamour_for_putins_butter/7426761 09:22:56 <peter1138> TinoDidriksen, raid1 should, in theory, be relatively safe. but you never know. 09:23:04 <Eddi|zuHause> well i found https://help.ubuntu.com/community/FakeRaidHowto but that is incomprehensive... 09:23:44 <TinoDidriksen> peter1138, it's not, because the metadata is in the card version's own special format. Been there, tried that, cursed a lot, went software. 09:25:30 <peter1138> if the card is sensible it will place the metadata at the end of the disk, but that's probably too much to ask 09:25:48 <peter1138> but still the data should be intact even if you can't directly boot it or whatever 09:25:59 <peter1138> which is sometimes easier than restoring from backup 09:26:23 * peter1138 has some hw raid6 cards lying around... 09:27:03 <Eddi|zuHause> what does raid6 do anyway? 09:27:59 <peter1138> makes it all more complex 09:28:23 <peter1138> and in theory gives you more redundancy than raid5 09:29:02 *** tokai|noir [~tokai@00012860.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 09:29:05 *** mode/#openttd [+v tokai|noir] by ChanServ 09:30:53 <__ln__> why only in theory? 09:34:51 *** tokai|mdlx [~tokai@port-92-195-10-228.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 09:35:10 <Xaroth|Work> Eddi|zuHause: tried ZFS? 09:35:25 <Eddi|zuHause> Xaroth|Work: for what? 09:35:35 <Xaroth|Work> instead of hardware raid 09:35:42 <Eddi|zuHause> why? 09:35:51 <Xaroth|Work> because it's.. somewhat better than hardware raid 09:36:15 <Xaroth|Work> and doesn't have some of the pitfalls that hardware raid has 09:36:47 *** luaduck_zzz is now known as luaduck 09:37:19 <Xaroth|Work> (like having to use dodgy raid cards with their own dodgy format of storing metadata that isn't compatible with other brand dodgy cards) 09:44:24 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p5DC67D47.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [] 09:52:28 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p5DC67D47.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 09:54:17 <Eddi|zuHause> so now things are different kind of weird... i made a software raid, and it's now saying "activating md even if degraded" or something 10:00:14 <peter1138> Xaroth|Work, zfs supports different raid levels by itself? 10:01:57 <Eddi|zuHause> "You can safely ignore the message" 10:02:22 <Xaroth|Work> peter1138: in what way do you mean exactly? 10:02:33 <peter1138> err... 10:02:36 <peter1138> built in to zfs 10:02:42 <peter1138> rather than say, using mdraid like normal people do 10:02:52 <Xaroth|Work> it does 1, 0, 5(z), 6(z2) 10:02:59 <peter1138> sounds terrible 10:03:24 <peter1138> also oracle 10:03:28 <Xaroth|Work> it's not just a raid-like system, it's also a volume manager 10:03:43 <peter1138> ... 10:04:02 <peter1138> i prefer my file systems to be file systems, my volume managers to be volume managers, and my software raid to be software raid. 10:04:11 <Eddi|zuHause> which brings us back to the question... why? 10:04:20 <peter1138> why what? 10:04:32 <Xaroth|Work> peter1138: if you have 3 split systems, one is not fully aware of the other 10:04:37 <Eddi|zuHause> use zfs 10:05:14 <peter1138> i don't think i've ever needed them to be 10:05:42 <Xaroth|Work> so when your raid array has silent corruption, and figures it out 10:05:52 <Xaroth|Work> how does the rest know what has suffered bitrot? 10:06:12 <peter1138> if zfs is handling volumes and raid, then where do you put swap? on a file? heh 10:07:49 *** Flygon [~Flygon@147.18.214.218.sta.commander.net.au] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 10:08:12 <Eddi|zuHause> i finally need to install grub on my ssd... that never worked... 10:09:28 <peter1138> never had any problem with that, though i'm on a bios system 10:09:32 <Xaroth|Work> peter1138: https://wiki.freebsd.org/RootOnZFS#ZFS_Swap_Volume 10:09:58 <Eddi|zuHause> peter1138: whenever i tried to put grub on a new disk, it made things ever worse... 10:10:09 <Eddi|zuHause> like using the wrong drive order 10:10:18 <Eddi|zuHause> or getting into an endless restart loop 10:10:26 <peter1138> zfs sounds horrible, i'm glad i don't use it 10:10:33 <Eddi|zuHause> and let's not speak of grub2 :/ 10:10:49 <Xaroth|Work> so you see 2 things on something, and you call it horrible? that's a well educated oppinion right there 10:12:45 <Xaroth|Work> I'd advise to go read the features of it: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ZFS 10:13:05 <peter1138> i see the bit about it not being in linux 10:13:13 <Xaroth|Work> ... 10:13:19 <Xaroth|Work> http://zfsonlinux.org/ 10:13:28 <peter1138> if it's not in debian i don't give a shit :) 10:13:32 <Xaroth|Work> ... 10:13:33 <Xaroth|Work> http://zfsonlinux.org/ 10:13:40 <Xaroth|Work> seriously, do you even google? 10:13:46 <^Spike^> ieuw.... zfs..... 10:13:47 <peter1138> packages FOR debian is not IN debian 10:14:11 <^Spike^> sorry bad experiences... :) 10:14:16 <peter1138> plus oracle 10:14:20 <^Spike^> better say way too much bad experiences :) 10:14:22 <^Spike^> said* 10:14:24 <peter1138> will not touch with a giant bargepole 10:15:02 <Xaroth|Work> ^Spike^: what kind of issues? 10:15:12 <Xaroth|Work> i've been fiddling around with it for a while and everything's been running just fine 10:15:14 <^Spike^> stuff with large disk sets 10:15:19 <^Spike^> stuff with raid controllers 10:15:28 <Xaroth|Work> raid controllers for a software raid system? 10:15:32 <^Spike^> stuff with it being f***** slow on freebsd with lots of snapshots 10:15:46 <^Spike^> stuff with it killing a production server bi-weekly atm 10:16:42 <Xaroth|Work> lots of snapshots being how many? 10:16:47 <^Spike^> in the end... zfs is A file system and not THE filesystem 10:17:00 <^Spike^> 400+ subvolumes with each i think 8-10 snapshots 10:17:13 <Eddi|zuHause> so, why does the software raid consume like 20% cpu and constant disk accesses, even though nothing is actually accessing the disk? 10:17:32 <^Spike^> because software raid..... 10:17:45 <Eddi|zuHause> but... what is it doing? 10:18:00 <^Spike^> if i knew... ottdc server would be optimized already :) 10:18:37 <^Spike^> lots of disk actions from sw raid 10:18:42 <^Spike^> reason: unknown 10:18:47 <Eddi|zuHause> also, why does google open in a noscript-y browser consume so much cpu? 10:18:52 <^Spike^> cause we don't constantly try to fill disk/clean disk... :) 10:19:02 <^Spike^> because... google!? 10:19:44 <Xaroth|Work> ^Spike^: so you cram it full of crap (400+ subvols), and then you claim it's full of crap? yeh, I see how that's ZFS' issue :P 10:20:06 <^Spike^> it's said it could handle it... :) 10:20:20 <^Spike^> it's called user separation when you offer a service... ;) 10:20:23 <peter1138> Eddi|zuHause, probably synchronizing, maybe. 10:20:24 <^Spike^> and quota management :) 10:20:27 *** dxtr [53b27081@000182a2.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: .] 10:20:48 <^Spike^> we are switching over to get rid of the crappy sub volume stuff.... cause software understands quotas in ldap now... 10:20:55 <Xaroth|Work> ^Spike^: ever seen what happens if you create 200+ ext4 volumes to a system? I'm somewhat amazed that it actually has some performance with 400 :P 10:21:05 *** dxtr [c627e5b9@000182a2.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 10:21:24 <^Spike^> ehm... considering the storage backend @ work.... + proper lvm.... 10:21:31 <^Spike^> i think it would come quite far :) 10:24:20 <^Spike^> although lvm overhead could be killing it in one way... but with a proper hw raid controller it should work quite well 10:24:31 <Xaroth|Work> ^Spike^: side question; how much ram and what features were enabled? 10:25:07 <^Spike^> almost no features as far as i remember and about 16G ram 10:25:20 <^Spike^> and about 100T storage space 10:25:29 <Xaroth|Work> 16g on 100t? that's a bit low tbh 10:26:00 <Xaroth|Work> should work, but if your arc isn't tuned then it might cause issues 10:26:03 <^Spike^> i already noticed zfs does too much in ram when we were calculating deduplication vs ram needed 10:26:34 <Xaroth|Work> yeh, but that's just how (and why) ZFS works 10:26:38 <Xaroth|Work> RAM ALL the things :P 10:26:57 <^Spike^> it was better to buy a new EMC with more features... then buy an enterprise server for that price.... 10:27:30 <Xaroth|Work> that somewhat depends on what kind of hardware you're running it on 10:27:58 <Xaroth|Work> i mean, 100T on big disks, add a few SSDs for L2arc and a ZIL and you'll still be at half the cost of an enterprise storage device 10:28:13 <Xaroth|Work> because they all want the 'enterprise' 15k sas drives 10:29:18 <^Spike^> hmmm will keep that in mind... :) 10:29:32 <^Spike^> doesn't mean we might still change things... but we are working with the current platform... and still don't like zfs :) 10:29:45 <Xaroth|Work> and I don't like paying 600 euro for 1TB of space, if I can get 12TB of space AND a SSD for L2arc/zil at the same price :P 10:31:50 <^Spike^> as said it's a filesystem and not the filesystem :) 10:32:32 <Xaroth|Work> that is true 10:42:22 *** Flygon [~Flygon@147.18.214.218.sta.commander.net.au] has joined #openttd 10:45:05 <SpComb> ZFS has a lot to offer in terms of management for large disk systems 10:45:36 <Eddi|zuHause> hm, there see,s to be a process called "ext4lazyinit" running that consumes i/o 10:45:38 <SpComb> like I'm not really sure I'd want to mdraid/lvm/ext4/rsync some box with two dsik shelves and 127 disks 10:45:45 <Eddi|zuHause> s/,/m/ 10:46:10 <SpComb> whereas with ZFS it's not really any more difficult than a box with 2 disks 10:46:56 <SpComb> it's not like LVM is perfect either.. 10:47:17 <SpComb> Eddi|zuHause: are you going to be dual-booting between windows and linux and want the same raid on both? 10:48:08 <Eddi|zuHause> SpComb: when i now formatted it ext4, probably not... 10:48:55 <Eddi|zuHause> sometimes i really wished windows could just read all the linux file systems :/ 10:49:38 <SpComb> I think I've mostly given up on dual-booting these days 10:49:46 <SpComb> laptop is just Ubuntu, with Windows in a VM inside 10:49:57 <SpComb> desktop is still dual-boot but I haven't booted it into Ubuntu for a while 10:50:00 <Eddi|zuHause> i've tried windows VM 10:50:17 <Eddi|zuHause> but kvm/qemu somehow uses 30% cpu when idle 10:50:39 <SpComb> kvm/qemu graphics imo kinda sucks, VirtualBox seems to just work better for desktop stuff 10:50:56 <Eddi|zuHause> how long is this ext4lazyinit going to run? 10:50:59 <SpComb> but yeah, the Windows 8.1 inside likes to peg the cpu once in a while 10:51:15 <Eddi|zuHause> i only have XP to play with 10:51:33 <Eddi|zuHause> most stuff i do in wine, but some things just don't work 10:51:34 <SpComb> Eddi|zuHause: never encountered ext4lazyinit before 10:57:28 *** SylvieLorxu [~sylvie@dhcp-077-251-165-191.chello.nl] has joined #openttd 11:02:54 <peter1138> Hmm, I don't think it should be sticking around, unless it's waiting for something else to finish, maybe. 11:03:16 <Eddi|zuHause> SpComb: apparently it's some process that zeros stuff that was left out from formatting 11:03:16 <^Spike^> Xaroth|Work: what helps in the end (special in the environment i work in) with EMC for example if it breaks they come by to fix it... if shit hits the fan really hard... they come to help out :) 11:03:56 <^Spike^> with zfs if it breaks... you're on your own basicly (and a community perhaps) as far as i've seen 11:04:12 <^Spike^> and telling that to customer when you got 2k VMs offline... doesn't go to well i can tell you :) 11:04:56 <Eddi|zuHause> man, mount.ntfs is some inefficient shit... 11:06:24 <SpComb> ^Spike^: that's normal... if you have the money, you should concentrate on the actual product and not the infrastructure around it... outsource that part 11:06:36 <^Spike^> true :) 11:07:05 <^Spike^> it also depends on what you use it for in the end 11:07:15 <^Spike^> in this case running clusters of VMs 11:07:45 <^Spike^> for something easier/simpler it might be enough to kick 3 boxes into a DC put for example gluster on it and hf 11:08:11 <Xaroth_> ^Spike^: there's always Nexenta 11:08:21 <Xaroth_> they are some of the core contributors for the BSD branches 11:08:27 <Xaroth_> and they procide extra crap like replication 11:08:34 <Xaroth_> which isn't in 'normal' zfs 11:08:35 <^Spike^> trying to think.. cause i recognize the name.... but i think we kicked that out aswell 11:09:30 *** Pikkaphone [~yaaic@203-206-161-219.perm.iinet.net.au] has joined #openttd 11:10:07 <^Spike^> yup deleted device... 11:22:49 <SpComb> oh, so someone does actually do zfs live replication? 11:23:26 <SpComb> my stack is ganeti, so something like lvm/ext4/drbd/rsync... it would be nice if ZFS really did all of that... and then someone implemented support for it in ganeti :) 11:25:43 *** Pikkaphone [~yaaic@203-206-161-219.perm.iinet.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:31:43 *** Supercheese is now known as Guest1659 11:31:44 *** Supercheese [~Superchee@76.178.136.186] has joined #openttd 11:36:38 *** Guest1659 [~Superchee@76.178.136.186] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:46:46 *** Klanticus [~quassel@177.35.41.102] has joined #openttd 11:53:35 <Xaroth|Work> SpComb: Nexenta apparently does it 11:53:45 <Xaroth|Work> but that's their enterprise edition 11:54:04 *** sla_ro|master [~sla.ro@89.137.74.191] has quit [] 12:05:26 *** KWKdesign [~KWKdesign@pool-108-52-130-213.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 12:06:01 *** KWKdesign [~KWKdesign@pool-108-52-130-213.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #openttd 12:18:29 *** kostiak [~Kost@109-186-236-241.bb.netvision.net.il] has joined #openttd 12:18:38 <kostiak> hey 12:19:49 <kostiak> anyone around here? 12:22:01 * planetmaker doesn't see anyone 12:22:16 <kostiak> I'm having a bit of a problem 12:22:41 <kostiak> I'm reading that trains are supposed to be availble as early as 1925 in temperate 12:23:03 <kostiak> yet in 1940 the railway constuction option is still greyed out 12:23:42 <planetmaker> that depends on climate. And if you play with NewGRFs 12:24:01 <kostiak> temperate, no newgrfs 12:24:29 <kostiak> kirby engine is supposed to be available since 1925 12:24:46 <kostiak> yet in 1940 no railway constuction option 12:25:00 <planetmaker> got a savegame for me? 12:25:08 <kostiak> sure, sec 12:25:13 <kostiak> where should i upload it? 12:25:23 <planetmaker> wherever. Dropbox maybe? 12:26:55 <kostiak> there you go: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B5a4IlyyK-bVd1pQQVdpdExlMVU/edit?usp=sharing 12:27:59 <planetmaker> that's arctic climate 12:28:11 <kostiak> wth 12:28:32 <planetmaker> earliest train: 1945 12:28:48 <kostiak> well I'm stupid (as always) 12:28:56 <kostiak> i was 100% sure i picked temperate 12:29:03 <kostiak> thanks anyways mate 12:29:08 <planetmaker> you're welcome 12:30:32 <planetmaker> btw, you see the climate even before you load the save. The saveload dialogue tells you the climate, date and some other stuff about the save 12:30:55 <planetmaker> and you see it from the colour of the grass when you loaded it. But that, of course, needs some knowledge how stuff looks like :) 12:31:19 <kostiak> tbh, haven't played in like a year 12:31:24 <kostiak> and forgot all this stuff :) 12:57:03 *** kostiak [~Kost@109-186-236-241.bb.netvision.net.il] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:03:56 *** Midnightmyth [~quassel@93-167-84-102-static.dk.customer.tdc.net] has joined #openttd 13:31:03 <__ln__> http://asunnot.oikotie.fi/myytavat-asunnot/6496195 13:32:29 <planetmaker> why do you sell it, __ln__ ? :D 13:33:52 <SpComb> __ln__: you just need to pay a 50000⬠deposit into an unnamed nigerian bank account to clear legal issues before your payment can be processed? 13:45:10 <^Spike^> they usually also offer to send pictures of their wife for some reason with those mails... 13:45:34 <^Spike^> and tell how you could really help her out 13:45:56 <V453000> what I want pictures of their wife 13:45:58 <V453000> now 13:47:56 <^Spike^> .... i shall forward one of the mails when i have stand-by next time and need to keep an eye on the abuse mailbox :) 13:51:57 *** TheMask96 [martijn@gluttony.vhost.ne2000.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 13:53:03 *** Tirili [~chatzilla@dslc-082-083-141-174.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd 13:56:59 *** TheMask96 [martijn@pride.vhost.ne2000.nl] has joined #openttd 13:57:29 *** sla_ro|master [slamaster@89.137.74.191] has joined #openttd 14:20:20 <Eddi|zuHause> ext4lazyinit still running :/ 14:27:40 <^Spike^> kill it all.......... ;) 14:27:44 <^Spike^> it's just a friday afternoon.. ;) 14:27:47 <^Spike^> nobody will notice :D 14:28:52 <^Spike^> hmmm lazy init should be gradual without impact... technically... 14:29:00 <^Spike^> lazy zeroing should do that normally atleast 14:35:41 *** Defaultti [defaultti@lakka.kapsi.fi] has quit [Quit: Quitting.] 14:37:21 *** Defaultti [defaultti@lakka.kapsi.fi] has joined #openttd 14:47:16 *** DanMacK [~androirc@24.114.76.44] has joined #openttd 14:48:10 <DanMacK> Hey All 15:05:38 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1BD30.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 15:06:21 *** Midnightmyth [~quassel@93-167-84-102-static.dk.customer.tdc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:12:56 *** Hazzard [~quassel@c-67-174-253-44.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #openttd 15:13:32 *** Midnightmyth [~quassel@93-167-84-102-static.dk.customer.tdc.net] has joined #openttd 15:16:40 *** Hazzard [~quassel@c-67-174-253-44.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:23:00 *** Progman_ [~progman@p57A19FF1.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 15:23:55 <Eddi|zuHause> @calc .6*.2 15:23:56 <DorpsGek> Eddi|zuHause: 0.12 15:24:01 <Eddi|zuHause> @calc .6*.8 15:24:01 <DorpsGek> Eddi|zuHause: 0.48 15:24:18 <Eddi|zuHause> @calc .6*.8*.75 15:24:18 <DorpsGek> Eddi|zuHause: 0.36 15:24:22 <Eddi|zuHause> @calc .6*.8*.7 15:24:22 <DorpsGek> Eddi|zuHause: 0.336 15:24:27 <Eddi|zuHause> @calc .6*.8*.69 15:24:27 <DorpsGek> Eddi|zuHause: 0.3312 15:24:31 <Eddi|zuHause> @calc .6*.8*.68 15:24:32 <DorpsGek> Eddi|zuHause: 0.3264 15:24:47 <Eddi|zuHause> @calc .6*.76*.75 15:24:47 <DorpsGek> Eddi|zuHause: 0.342 15:24:51 <Eddi|zuHause> @calc .6*.76*.70 15:24:52 <DorpsGek> Eddi|zuHause: 0.3192 15:24:55 <Eddi|zuHause> @calc .6*.76*.73 15:24:55 <DorpsGek> Eddi|zuHause: 0.33288 15:24:58 <Eddi|zuHause> @calc .6*.76*.72 15:24:59 <DorpsGek> Eddi|zuHause: 0.32832 15:28:44 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1BD30.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:28:48 *** Progman_ is now known as Progman 15:33:31 <keoz> toying out Eddi|zuHause ? :) 15:37:30 *** Tirili [~chatzilla@dslc-082-083-141-174.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:47:30 *** DanMacK [~androirc@24.114.76.44] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:00:47 *** Pikka [~Octomom@d58-106-43-139.rdl801.qld.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:04:03 <SpComb> such spam 16:06:46 *** Midnightmyth [~quassel@93-167-84-102-static.dk.customer.tdc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:12:51 *** oskari89 [oskari89@83-102-63-32.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined #openttd 16:13:58 *** Midnightmyth [~quassel@93-167-84-102-static.dk.customer.tdc.net] has joined #openttd 16:18:13 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-4d011e69.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 16:20:20 *** Brumi [~quassel@78-131-41-191.pool.digikabel.hu] has quit [] 16:28:38 *** davidstrauss_ [~quassel@2001:4800:7813:516:62f:ce48:ff05:1b82] has quit [Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.] 16:28:39 *** davidstrauss [~quassel@2001:4800:7813:516:62f:ce48:ff05:1b82] has joined #openttd 16:30:53 *** Xaroth|W1rk [~XarothAtW@194.1.204.204] has joined #openttd 16:32:24 *** Xaroth|Work [~XarothAtW@00017153.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:03:02 *** trendynick [~trendynic@188.25.248.187] has joined #openttd 17:09:53 *** Xaroth|W1rk is now known as Xaroth|Work 17:12:06 <DorpsGek> Commit by rubidium :: r26753 /trunk/src (saveload/station_sl.cpp station_base.h) (2014-08-22 17:11:59 UTC) 17:12:07 <DorpsGek> -Fix: desync due to not always properly restoring game state from the savegame 17:15:07 *** planetmaker [~planetmak@188.cimarosa.openttdcoop.org] has left #openttd [Verlassend] 17:15:11 *** planetmaker [~planetmak@188.cimarosa.openttdcoop.org] has joined #openttd 17:15:14 *** mode/#openttd [+o planetmaker] by ChanServ 17:16:51 *** Zuu [~Zuu@h-114-162.a98.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #openttd 17:19:15 *** avdg_ [~avdg@2a02:1812:1306:9200:29e8:2f82:d3cb:d613] has joined #openttd 17:36:37 <frosch123> LSky`: your desync log files were useful :) 17:38:05 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@0001288e.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 17:39:02 <Wolf01> hi hi 17:45:35 <DorpsGek> Commit by translators :: r26754 trunk/src/lang/catalan.txt (2014-08-22 17:45:28 UTC) 17:45:36 <DorpsGek> -Update from WebTranslator v3.0: 17:45:37 <DorpsGek> catalan - 9 changes by juanjo 17:47:10 *** Alberth [~hat@2001:981:c6c5:1:be5f:f4ff:feac:e11] has joined #openttd 17:47:13 *** mode/#openttd [+o Alberth] by ChanServ 17:47:19 <Wolf01> o/ 17:47:26 <Alberth> moin 17:49:03 *** luaduck is now known as luaduck_zzz 17:52:08 *** Yotson [~Yotson@2001:980:6ac8:1:885d:77c2:8ccb:6293] has joined #openttd 17:52:14 *** gelignite [~gelignite@i528C3C77.versanet.de] has joined #openttd 17:56:50 *** HerzogDeXtEr1 [~flex@88.130.178.20] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 18:04:13 *** Brumi [~quassel@78-131-41-191.pool.digikabel.hu] has joined #openttd 18:13:21 *** Midnightmyth [~quassel@93-167-84-102-static.dk.customer.tdc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:16:39 *** luaduck_zzz is now known as luaduck 18:29:25 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc10-aztw26-2-0-cust867.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has joined #openttd 18:32:47 <Alberth> evenink 18:32:57 <andythenorth> o/ 18:36:58 *** Zmastershabeeb [~zmshabeeb@24.145.48.206] has joined #openttd 18:37:39 <andythenorth> Alberth: any ideas how to run a python 3 nml in a python 2 compile? 18:38:18 <andythenorth> Iâve been relying on the coincidental fact that my scripts and nml both work with 2.6/2.7 18:38:21 <Alberth> if you run it as a separate process, how is it a problem? 18:38:37 <andythenorth> how will I teach nml to use python 3? 18:39:15 <andythenorth> I donât want to modify the shebangs, thatâs not good 18:39:15 <Alberth> #! /usr/bin/env python3 <-- by the first line in nmlc 18:39:33 <Alberth> python3 nmlc ..... 18:40:12 <andythenorth> hmm 18:40:14 <Alberth> but current nml2 has the above #! 18:40:17 <andythenorth> thatâs interesting 18:40:21 <Alberth> *nml 18:40:27 * andythenorth tries something again 18:41:12 * Alberth bets it give the same result 18:41:16 <andythenorth> ah 18:41:19 <Alberth> *gives 18:41:38 <andythenorth> so either I change the shebang or alias python 3 18:41:42 <andythenorth> Iâd misunderstood an error 18:42:41 <Alberth> I lost you, but that's probably fine :) 18:43:37 <Alberth> I tried to update the fish translation yesterday, and got stuck on the roster thingie iirc 18:43:51 <andythenorth> my python isnât in /usr/bin/env so I need to alias from there 18:44:54 <Alberth> /usr/bin/env is a program 18:45:34 <andythenorth> so it is :o 18:45:34 <Alberth> as parameter you give it the program you look for, and it returns the path to it, iirc 18:45:54 *** Progman [~progman@p57A19FF1.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:46:01 <andythenorth> I see 18:46:10 <andythenorth> so it knows about python3.3 but not python 3 18:46:23 <Alberth> silly mac? :) 18:46:23 <andythenorth> so I was going to symlink (alias) python3.3 to python 3 18:48:15 <Alberth> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schedule_%28workplace%29 <-- this is what you mean with "roster" in fish? 18:48:33 <Eddi|zuHause> wouldn't the package installer do that automatically? 18:48:59 <Alberth> Eddi|zuHause: you expect sane package installers at a mac box? 18:49:12 <Eddi|zuHause> yes. 18:49:19 <andythenorth> we donât use the package installers for python 18:49:20 <Eddi|zuHause> hope dies last. 18:49:23 <andythenorth> theyâre all fucked for OS X 18:49:32 <andythenorth> we use python buildout, itâs reliable 18:50:08 <Eddi|zuHause> > dir $(which python3) 18:50:09 <Eddi|zuHause> lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 9 6. Aug 23:39 /usr/bin/python3 -> python3.3 18:50:57 <Alberth> I'd do that in ~/bin 18:51:20 <andythenorth> make test should pass with nml tip and python3.3? 18:51:21 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, if you do things manually, do them either in 18:51:28 <Eddi|zuHause> ~/bin or /usr/local/bin 18:52:02 <andythenorth> I have r2200 18:52:18 <Eddi|zuHause> i never understood the name "usr" anyway... certainly doesn't have anything to do with "user" 18:53:06 <Alberth> (20:51:20) andythenorth: make test should pass with nml tip and python3.3? <-- I just checked, it does 18:53:35 <andythenorth> http://paste.openttdcoop.org/show/3651/ 18:53:53 <Alberth> Eddi|zuHause: / is single user mode, /usr is mounted in multi-user mode, ie normal operation 18:54:26 <Eddi|zuHause> Alberth: that makes absolutely no sense 18:55:40 <Alberth> they are run states of the OS, probably hysteric rasins made /usr and it stuck around, as these things do 18:56:06 <andythenorth> hmm 18:56:14 <andythenorth> 0.3.1 also fails 18:56:19 <andythenorth> but looks like missing PIL 18:56:20 <Alberth> andythenorth: no nml/tokens.py? (it's 9333 bytes here) 18:57:30 <andythenorth> 9333 bytes here too 18:57:51 <Alberth> python3 ; from ply import lex 18:58:16 <andythenorth> no ply 18:58:19 <andythenorth> and no PIL 18:58:24 <andythenorth> Iâll sort the deps out first 18:58:30 * andythenorth has to read how to make a virtualenv 18:58:35 <andythenorth> again 18:59:00 <Alberth> pillow, actually, I don't think there is a real PIL for python3 18:59:08 <andythenorth> yeah Iâll get pillow 18:59:09 <Alberth> make a few notes today :p 18:59:58 <andythenorth> first I have to get virtualenv for python3 19:00:35 <andythenorth> which means I need pip for python3 19:00:42 <andythenorth> which means I need distribute for python3 19:01:36 <andythenorth> or setuptools 19:01:38 <andythenorth> or something 19:02:08 *** Brumi_ [~quassel@78-131-41-191.pool.digikabel.hu] has joined #openttd 19:02:53 <andythenorth> https://pip.pypa.io/en/latest/installing.html 19:03:02 <andythenorth> Iâm posting here in case itâs some kind of use in future :P 19:03:36 <Alberth> the Internet is of course the ideal place to store such personal notes :p 19:04:18 <andythenorth> hth do I get pip to run under python3 19:04:29 <andythenorth> I donât want to change my system python just for this 19:04:34 * andythenorth *hates* python packaging 19:04:38 <Eddi|zuHause> sure, just name your backup "Lost.all.seasons" and put it in a torrent. free distributed backup :p 19:05:07 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: there is a pip3 of course 19:07:36 <andythenorth> yay 19:07:38 <andythenorth> got it 19:08:19 *** Brumi [~quassel@78-131-41-191.pool.digikabel.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:11:00 <andythenorth> and that is how we do it 19:11:18 * andythenorth should probably document that for other poor OS X users 19:12:00 <andythenorth> or I coud draw a boat :( 19:12:35 <Alberth> instead of getting an OS that can do these things, you manage your packages manually 19:12:53 <Alberth> and you pay big bucks to get to do it as well 19:13:24 <andythenorth> no comment :P 19:13:37 <Alberth> wise decision :p 19:14:03 <andythenorth> I work with linux devs who think itâs normal to recompile the kernel to try and fix a crashing wifi driver 19:14:17 <andythenorth> or who only have VGA support on their DVI-out laptop :P 19:14:30 <Alberth> right :p 19:14:37 <andythenorth> we all have our curses to bear 19:14:50 <Alberth> I did such things when I was young :) 19:15:30 <andythenorth> thereâs nothing stopping one of us (OS X users) writing a decent package manager 19:15:37 <andythenorth> we just prefer to whine about it seems 19:16:27 <andythenorth> 32 nml tests passed 19:16:30 <Alberth> much easier borrow one from linuces 19:16:39 <Rubidium> andythenorth: isn't the OS X package manager called iTunes? 19:16:48 <andythenorth> App Store now :P 19:17:04 <andythenorth> Alberth: I think they started out by copying BSD Ports Tree, might have been a bad place 19:17:13 <Alberth> ieks! 19:17:30 <andythenorth> updating a simple package can lead to a recursive port update that takes hours and leaves gcc tying up the cpu 19:17:38 <andythenorth> I guess thatâs how a depgraph works though :P 19:17:55 <Alberth> obviously compiling all programs yourself is very useful :p 19:18:20 <andythenorth> anyway, what was I actually doing? 19:18:21 <andythenorth> smoke? 19:18:40 <Alberth> trying to run nml with pythno3 in something python2 19:18:55 <andythenorth> oh that yes 19:19:01 <andythenorth> letâs see if I broke my compiles 19:19:06 <Alberth> as well as trying to answer my roster question, if you have seen it 19:19:37 <andythenorth> FISH compile works, and the deprecation messages about PIL tostring() stuff have gone 19:19:44 <andythenorth> win 19:19:49 <Alberth> \o/ 19:19:49 <andythenorth> whatâs the roster question? 19:20:10 <Alberth> (20:48:15) Alberth: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schedule_%28workplace%29 <-- this is what you mean with "roster" in fish? 19:20:20 <Alberth> I don't understand what "roster" is 19:20:40 <Alberth> for translating to dutch 19:21:11 <Taede> roster: selection of vehicles available (for instance, dutch ships, british ships) 19:21:24 <Taede> not unlike industry set selection in firs? 19:21:28 <andythenorth> more like http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/modelListRR.aspx?id=CSX 19:21:38 <andythenorth> yes similar to FIRS economy 19:21:55 <andythenorth> same concept in Iron Horse and Road Hog 19:21:58 <Alberth> This Sceptered Isle / The Blue Danube refer to something? 19:22:07 <andythenorth> This Sceptered Isle <- Brit 19:22:14 <andythenorth> think itâs a Shakespeare line 19:22:17 * andythenorth checks 19:22:42 <andythenorth> http://www.quotationspage.com/quote/25255.html 19:22:49 <andythenorth> This precious stone set in the silver sea, 19:22:50 <andythenorth> Which serves it in the office of a wall 19:22:51 <andythenorth> Or as a moat defensive to a house, 19:23:06 <andythenorth> The Blue Danube is generic european river boats 19:23:23 <andythenorth> france/germany/switzerland/austria/hungary etc 19:23:35 <andythenorth> rhine / rhone / elbe / danube 19:25:32 <Alberth> nice reference :) thanks 19:28:27 <andythenorth> letâs try froschâs patch... 19:31:19 <andythenorth> frosch123 so I should use the effect_spawn_model prop, not visual_effect? 19:31:23 <andythenorth> seems the obvious conclusion 19:32:59 <frosch123> http://paste.openttdcoop.org/show/3639/ <- yup, remove all "visual_effect", and add effect_spawn_model and create_effect 19:34:29 <andythenorth> ta 19:43:30 <andythenorth> oops 19:43:44 <andythenorth> so canât use python3 nml and python2 build 19:43:57 * andythenorth overlooked that nmlc is installed into the virtualenv 19:46:46 <andythenorth> I guess I could have the makefile switch virtualenv 19:49:15 <andythenorth> hmm 19:49:24 <andythenorth> nml is borked 19:49:48 <andythenorth> make install fails I think 19:51:36 <andythenorth> L145 onwards http://paste.openttdcoop.org/show/3652/ 19:53:24 <frosch123> that is not in my nml 19:55:07 <frosch123> your quote uses python2 syntax 19:55:13 <frosch123> so, what nml are you running? 19:57:49 <frosch123> night 19:57:52 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-4d011e69.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: be yourself, except: if you have the opportunity to be a unicorn, then be a unicorn] 19:59:34 <andythenorth> this is nml 0.4.0 19:59:42 <andythenorth> nml==0.4.0.r5307M-0be320b4fa1a 20:02:13 *** Klanticus [~quassel@177.35.41.102] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:03:12 <andythenorth> well the smoke works 20:03:19 <andythenorth> frosch left too early :P 20:06:44 <andythenorth> steam hovercraft ftw 20:06:45 <andythenorth> looks nice 20:13:29 *** Brumi [~quassel@78-131-41-191.pool.digikabel.hu] has joined #openttd 20:19:28 *** Brumi_ [~quassel@78-131-41-191.pool.digikabel.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:22:00 <andythenorth> maybe I should convert my compiles to python 3 20:26:47 <Eddi|zuHause> how does that help anybody? 20:27:42 <andythenorth> I donât see how a python3 project will run in a python2 environment 20:27:50 <andythenorth> fundamentally, how is that supposed to work? 20:28:31 <andythenorth> surely itâs just a foolâs errand? 20:29:14 *** glx [~glx@000128ec.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 20:29:17 *** mode/#openttd [+v glx] by ChanServ 20:29:40 <Eddi|zuHause> the point is that you can easily have python2 and python3 simultaneously 20:30:16 <Eddi|zuHause> as long as one script doesn't call the other script, there's no overlap 20:30:46 <Eddi|zuHause> and if you'd use the makefile for calling scripts like normal people... 20:31:30 <andythenorth> this is the makefil 20:31:35 <andythenorth> makefile * 20:32:03 *** LSky` [~LSky@5ED4B2EA.cm-7-5c.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:32:04 <andythenorth> if I call python3 nml with a python2 virtualenv active, it bails 20:32:09 <andythenorth> as youâd expect :P 20:32:17 <andythenorth> how is this not the expected result? 20:32:58 <Eddi|zuHause> in the makefile you have a line "PYTHON=blah", just replace that with two lines "PYTHON2=blah" and "PYTHON3=blub". then replace every $(PYTHON) with either $(PYTHON2) or $(PYTHON3) 20:33:43 <keoz> Changing the Makefile.in did the trick for me 20:33:46 <Eddi|zuHause> of course your "virtualenv" needs to have both python2 and python3 installed 20:34:11 <andythenorth> this seems like a lot of string 20:38:33 <Eddi|zuHause> oh, also every literal "python" needs to be changed into either of these 20:38:37 <andythenorth> I donât understand how to install 2 pythons into a virtualenv 20:38:43 <andythenorth> that seems to be anti-virtualenv 20:39:09 <andythenorth> I think if I go into #python or whatever and ask how to switch pythons in a virtualenv, Iâll get kbanned 20:39:09 <Eddi|zuHause> your virtualenvs seem to be a terrible concept 20:39:13 <andythenorth> theyâre not mine :O 20:39:21 <andythenorth> theyâre the standard solution 20:39:35 <andythenorth> I have no other fricking idea how you do work 20:39:39 <Eddi|zuHause> is that like a chroot? 20:39:56 <andythenorth> honestly how do you get anything done without virtualenv? 20:40:15 <andythenorth> in any given day I am working on python 2.4, python 2.6, python 2.7 and now, python 3 20:40:23 <Eddi|zuHause> who says i get anything done? 20:40:24 <andythenorth> plus Apple have their own ideas about python 20:40:44 <Alberth> it has its own ideas about everything :) 20:41:18 <keoz> :p 20:41:32 <andythenorth> it used to have one idea 20:41:35 <andythenorth> now it has many 20:41:41 <andythenorth> one man, one idea 20:41:42 <andythenorth> :P 20:41:44 <keoz> Switch to linux. 20:42:00 <andythenorth> does that magically run multiple pythons together? 20:42:09 <Eddi|zuHause> yes 20:42:13 <andythenorth> do your scripts just âknowâ which one to use? 20:42:19 *** kais58__ [~kais58@cpc3-cwma7-2-0-cust221.7-3.cable.virginm.net] has joined #openttd 20:42:19 <Eddi|zuHause> yes 20:42:19 <keoz> well at least here, I have python 2 and 3. Without problems. 20:42:23 <andythenorth> how do they know? 20:42:25 <Eddi|zuHause> they say that in the first line 20:42:33 <Eddi|zuHause> #!/bin/python 20:42:36 <Eddi|zuHause> #!/bin/python3 20:43:40 <andythenorth> ha :) 20:44:01 *** kais58_ [~kais58@cpc3-cwma7-2-0-cust221.7-3.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:44:18 <Alberth> #!/usr/bin/env python3 20:44:23 <Eddi|zuHause> this first line gets evaluated by your shell, when you type "./script.py" 20:44:44 <andythenorth> yes 20:44:57 <andythenorth> changing the shebangs is definitely seen as good practice 20:45:09 <Alberth> Eddi|zuHause: sure it's the shell, I think it deeper, in the kernel somewhere 20:45:25 <andythenorth> changing the shebangs on every file definitely wouldnât get your commits reverted instantly 20:45:44 <andythenorth> anyway, I canât see how to make progress 20:45:50 <Eddi|zuHause> and then you get the weird distributions who think /bin/python should be mapped to /bin/python3 20:46:04 <Eddi|zuHause> where every legacy python program will break 20:46:14 <andythenorth> or they just get a virtualenv... 20:46:22 <andythenorth> anyway the virtualenv is misleading 20:46:56 <andythenorth> even with virtualenv deactivated, nml is still borked 20:47:12 <andythenorth> it only works if I run it in a python3 virtualenv 20:47:30 <andythenorth> hmm 20:47:33 <andythenorth> maybe itâs just missing deps 20:47:53 <Eddi|zuHause> it probably is 20:47:53 <andythenorth> so I have to install deps systemwide to get this to work? 20:48:02 <andythenorth> that is just not the right solution 20:48:08 <andythenorth> installing deps systemwide is always a problem 20:48:17 <andythenorth> always / often /s 20:49:06 <Eddi|zuHause> you can easily install the deps into the nml directory 20:49:16 <andythenorth> that sounds good 20:49:24 <Eddi|zuHause> well, "install" 20:49:31 <andythenorth> add it to the path? 20:49:51 <Eddi|zuHause> the pythonpath variable? 20:50:01 <andythenorth> yes 20:50:08 <Eddi|zuHause> that should work 20:50:34 <andythenorth> I suspect that might be all a virtualenv really does :P I didnât check 20:50:43 <Eddi|zuHause> there should be a Makefile.local where you can cram that stuff into 20:50:59 <Eddi|zuHause> or maybe Makefile.config 20:51:05 <andythenorth> there is 20:53:59 <andythenorth> I think if I just migrated my scripts to python 3 this would go away as a problem 20:54:54 *** keoz [~keikoz@pha75-1-81-57-54-15.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:55:33 <Eddi|zuHause> problems that are made to "go away" have a tendency to reappear 20:55:50 <Eddi|zuHause> like you solve it for FISH, now, next week you have to do it for FIRS as well 20:56:01 <Eddi|zuHause> and then for iron horse, and then... 20:57:10 <andythenorth> yair 20:57:47 *** Myhorta [~Myhorta@00018fad.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 21:01:28 * andythenorth could just give in and add the deps systemwide 21:01:35 <andythenorth> Iâll get yelled at for itâŠlater 21:09:23 <Eddi|zuHause> the key element to check for adding things systemwide is that you don't break stuff that is already working by doing so 21:11:30 <andythenorth> Iâve got a magic get out for most cases now 21:11:37 <andythenorth> which is that policy is to use virtualenv 21:11:48 <andythenorth> that only leaves non-work stuff to go wrong 21:11:49 <andythenorth> :P 21:12:01 <andythenorth> ply fails to install 21:12:03 <andythenorth> pillow installed ok 21:12:07 <andythenorth> but python3 canât find it 21:12:34 <andythenorth> itâs in the site-packages dir that python3 is running from 21:13:35 *** Progman [~progman@p57A19FF1.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 21:14:31 <andythenorth> solved 21:14:39 * andythenorth rtfm on PYTHONPATH 21:15:24 *** oskari89 [oskari89@83-102-63-32.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit [] 21:15:44 *** Pereba [~UserNick@177.40.222.42] has joined #openttd 21:21:23 <Eddi|zuHause> somewhen i'm gonna add a manual called "m.rtf" 21:25:48 <andythenorth> tfm doesnât explain why my python 2.7 is now importing from the python 3.3 site-packages 21:25:52 <andythenorth> so PIL is broken 21:25:59 <andythenorth> amongst other fun things 21:28:15 <andythenorth> ok, bed time 21:28:21 <andythenorth> I broke everything, time to stop 21:28:44 <andythenorth> I now have broken nml, broken Iron Horse, broken FISH, broken bash_profile, and broken system-wide python 21:28:47 <andythenorth> doing pretty well 21:29:37 <Eddi|zuHause> just a normal day at the office 21:30:10 <andythenorth> a good dayâs work 21:30:12 <Eddi|zuHause> that's why whenever someone asks what i'm doing, i'm answering "i'm breaking everything" 21:31:12 <Eddi|zuHause> with the bonus that if it's actually broken afterwards i can say "i told you so" 21:33:04 <andythenorth> bonus 21:33:22 <andythenorth> I will come back to this tomorrow, or another day entirely :P 21:33:27 *** MTsPony [~marctraid@008-086-128-083.dynamic.caiway.nl] has quit [] 21:34:26 <Alberth> gn 21:34:43 *** Alberth [~hat@2001:981:c6c5:1:be5f:f4ff:feac:e11] has left #openttd [] 21:36:01 <andythenorth> itâs not helpful that the version of nmlc created by make install appears to be borked 21:39:21 * andythenorth tests other tags 21:39:44 <andythenorth> 0.3.1 is borked 21:40:25 <andythenorth> 0.3.0 tests pass 21:43:59 <andythenorth> the effects patch works on nml 0.3.0 too 21:44:10 <andythenorth> although that solves not a lot :) 21:47:16 <Zuu> Or just stick to python 2.x? 21:47:30 <Zuu> That seems to be what most people do. 21:48:19 <andythenorth> not an option 21:48:25 <andythenorth> nml has moved to python3 21:48:40 <andythenorth> the version that will be shipped to bundle server will be python3 21:48:42 <andythenorth> I assume 22:00:10 <andythenorth> donât even ask 22:00:10 <andythenorth> PYTHONPATH=../../lib/python2.6/site-packages && python2.7 src/build_fish.py 22:00:17 <andythenorth> in a python3 virtualenv 22:00:19 <andythenorth> possibly works 22:00:32 <andythenorth> and yes, 2.6 and 2.7 are not a typo :( 22:01:00 <andythenorth> definitely bedtime 22:01:09 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc10-aztw26-2-0-cust867.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 22:10:28 *** Brumi [~quassel@78-131-41-191.pool.digikabel.hu] has quit [] 22:11:31 *** Zmastershabeeb [~zmshabeeb@24.145.48.206] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:20:29 <Wolf01> 'night 22:20:36 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@0001288e.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.] 22:23:44 *** Prof_Frink [~proffrink@87.114.250.110] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:26:22 <berndj-blackout> i've always wondered about openttd's splash screen - is it just an animation or is it running a simulation in the background? 22:26:23 *** Progman [~progman@p57A19FF1.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:27:23 *** trendynick [~trendynic@188.25.248.187] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:32:05 <Zuu> berndj-blackout: It is a savegame running in the background 22:32:17 <Zuu> opentile.dat 22:32:34 <Zuu> Copy it to opentile.sav and you can open it in the game. 22:33:36 <berndj-blackout> heh, cool, i'm totally going to do that right now 22:42:23 <berndj-blackout> *opntitle.dat btw; money everywhere! 22:42:59 *** Prof_Frink [~proffrink@87.113.95.39] has joined #openttd 22:44:48 <planetmaker> probably cheated money, berndj-blackout 22:44:58 <planetmaker> check the cheat dialogue (ctrl+alt+c) 22:45:03 *** Zmastershabeeb [~zmshabeeb@24.145.48.206] has joined #openttd 22:46:27 <berndj-blackout> it doesn't show any operating cheats for me... 22:47:16 <planetmaker> then it's indeed well-earned money 22:50:26 *** avdg_ [~avdg@2a02:1812:1306:9200:29e8:2f82:d3cb:d613] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:50:49 *** avdg_ [~avdg@2a02:1812:1306:9200:29e8:2f82:d3cb:d613] has joined #openttd 22:51:00 <berndj-blackout> i'm not referring to the total amount, just to income popping up everywhere 22:52:40 *** avdg_ [~avdg@2a02:1812:1306:9200:29e8:2f82:d3cb:d613] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:53:02 *** avdg_ [~avdg@2a02:1812:1306:9200:29e8:2f82:d3cb:d613] has joined #openttd 22:54:12 <planetmaker> ah yeah. Pretty busy savegame for the 1.4 series :) 22:55:07 *** Yotson [~Yotson@2001:980:6ac8:1:885d:77c2:8ccb:6293] has quit [Quit: .] 22:56:38 *** Zuu [~Zuu@h-114-162.a98.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:58:48 *** keoz [~keikoz@pha75-1-81-57-54-15.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #openttd 23:04:55 *** avdg__ [~avdg@78-21-58-76.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd 23:06:57 <berndj-blackout> in general, if i want to "up my game", what's a good idea to do? 23:08:32 *** Myhorta [~Myhorta@00018fad.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:11:45 <planetmaker> what do you understand under "up your game"? 23:11:54 *** avdg_ [~avdg@2a02:1812:1306:9200:29e8:2f82:d3cb:d613] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:12:19 <planetmaker> The best way is to just play. Maybe join a multiplayer server where you can play with other people and get direct feedback 23:12:27 <planetmaker> e.g. the #openttdcoop or reddit servers 23:13:22 <berndj-blackout> for one, i want my networks to end up looking less like this: http://www.bpj-code.co.za/images/screenshots/spaghetti-junction-sonderfurt.jpeg 23:13:56 <berndj-blackout> yeah i tried reddit's servers but apparently i need their custom client. i don't have the courage to compile openttd right now 23:14:26 *** avdg__ [~avdg@78-21-58-76.access.telenet.be] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:14:29 <planetmaker> you only need that on some of their servers. Or join the #openttdcoop Welcome server 23:16:11 <Sylf> awww, that spaghetti juction is half way beautiful 23:17:23 *** sla_ro|master [slamaster@89.137.74.191] has quit [] 23:20:22 *** mode/#openttd [+v planetmaker] by ChanServ 23:21:11 *** Prof_Frink is now known as Guest3 23:22:02 *** FLHerne [~flh@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has quit [Quit: There's a real world out here!] 23:43:16 <berndj-blackout> Sylf, care to elaborate? do you mean in an aesthetic sense or technically? i built it organically. originally just one line running between lake and city 23:44:01 <Sylf> It's fun to look at 23:44:47 <Sylf> There's nothing wrong with rails going everywhere in my play style, as long as they are all built with intention 23:48:19 <berndj-blackout> i find a lot of my rail chaos results from trying to gradually convert between rail types. i end up with duplicated paths