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Log for #openttd on 17th January 2016:
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00:38:47  <Wolf01> 'night
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00:40:43  <Hydros> evening
00:40:46  <Hydros> anyone around?
00:44:28  <Mazur> Of course.
00:44:47  * Mazur just returned from hours of TV.
00:44:50  <Hydros> there's an interesting topic that has come up, which licence to choose for the new identity/logo gfx
00:44:56  <Hydros> I thought about CC initially, naturally
00:45:20  <Hydros> how do we release all the game gfx, everything is CC?
00:45:39  <Mazur> Ah, an area which I have not involved myself in, yet.
00:45:59  <glx> game gfx are a mix of image and code
00:46:07  <Hydros> the newgfx packs, yes.
00:46:18  <Hydros> ah I see so the whole pack HAS to be released as CC
00:46:27  <Hydros> well, matching licence of the whole project, GPL
00:46:34  <Mazur> Not GNU Library thingy?
00:46:48  <Hydros> see I was thinking, CC for identity gfx is actually not appropriate and has no advantage
00:47:18  <glx> but many licences are used for newgrf files
00:47:54  <Hydros> right, newGRF are addons they aren't part of the project so they don't need to comply with licensing requirements
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03:21:30  <myztic> is the openttd tutorial series (master hellish) any good
03:21:49  <myztic> on first glance it at least seems to cover most of openttd
03:22:05  <myztic> (mean the series on youtube)
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06:16:06  <supermop>  yo Pikka
06:29:00  <supermop> later
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07:18:17  <andythenorth> o/
07:29:20  <peter1138> brrr
07:29:29  <peter1138> so much snow...
07:29:41  <peter1138> well probably just a thin layer
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07:30:30  <andythenorth> snow?
07:30:32  <andythenorth> pokka also?
07:30:36  <andythenorth> all the things at once
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07:33:51  <V453000> sup humies
07:36:17  <andythenorth> FIRS innit
07:36:23  <andythenorth> also maybe Horse
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08:40:42  <Pikka> pokka or pikka
08:41:03  <Pikka> hello andythenorth and V and others
08:55:57  <Alberth> moin
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09:05:59  <Mazur> By Grabthar's Hammer, it _is_  a good morning!
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09:23:37  <V453000> heyo
09:26:00  <Eddi|zuHause> is there a quantifyable threshold for when a morning is "good"?
09:27:19  <andythenorth> what ho Pikka
09:27:22  <andythenorth> how are you?
09:27:55  <Eddi|zuHause> we had like 3mm of snow...
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09:40:30  <andythenorth> cargo label for 'edible oil' ?
09:41:03  <andythenorth> EOIL?
09:43:17  <andythenorth> ha ha
09:43:32  <andythenorth> so the newgrf wiki blocks safari, but not chrome
09:43:38  <andythenorth> bit special
09:44:50  <andythenorth> ach no, neither work, /me was wrong
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10:13:30  <andythenorth> V453000 what doing? o_O
10:13:34  <Pikka> weren't there oilseeds or something before?
10:14:15  <Pikka> in ECS?
10:14:49  <andythenorth> probly
10:14:57  <andythenorth> this is the squishy stuff you cook chips in though
10:15:02  <Pikka> otherwise just make it livestock like UKRS milk ;)
10:15:07  <andythenorth> yes that
10:16:09  <andythenorth> Pikka: have you been away working for money?  o_O
10:16:13  <andythenorth> or uni?
10:16:23  <Pikka> working
10:16:36  <Pikka> and from march I will be working + uni
10:16:50  <andythenorth> no more buses?
10:17:39  <Pikka> nope. only vans.
10:18:15  <andythenorth> transport co-ordinator?
10:18:36  <Pikka> postman pat. :)
10:19:43  <Eddi|zuHause> how is oil livestock? animals only produce solid (saturated) fats, liquid (unsaturated) fats come from plants or fish
10:19:53  <andythenorth> same way milk is :)
10:20:00  <andythenorth> not
10:20:02  <Pikka> it isn't, but putting inappropriate things in tankers is a tradition
10:20:51  <Eddi|zuHause> solid/liquid at room temperature
10:23:35  <andythenorth> a silly tradition :)
10:24:13  <andythenorth> Pikka: copper refinery http://www.tt-forums.net/download/file.php?id=188654
10:24:15  <andythenorth> such pixels
10:35:53  <V453000> andythenorth: enormous amount of progress with BRIX lately
10:36:04  <V453000> not much super visible stuff, but rather under the hood technical shit
10:36:10  <V453000> it is great
10:39:54  <andythenorth> yay
10:40:27  <andythenorth> how do I make this not just same tank sprite on every tile?
10:40:28  <andythenorth> http://www.arabianoilandgas.com/pictures/gallery/Places/HSTterminal_singapore_onlin.jpg
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10:49:27  <V453000> have them in groups I guess
10:53:25  * andythenorth works on it
10:53:30  <andythenorth> eh I can do pipes and stuff
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11:29:37  <argoneus> turns out VS15 is not very good software
11:30:01  <argoneus> you need to enable microsoft language extensions to compile code that uses the stdlib
11:30:04  <argoneus> or rather link
11:30:07  <argoneus> else you get hundreds of linker errors
11:30:45  <Eddi|zuHause> is there even such a thing as "very good software"?
11:31:50  <argoneus> Eddi|zuHause: ottd
11:31:54  <argoneus> also look at this
11:31:55  <argoneus> https://connect.microsoft.com/VisualStudio/feedback/details/1331482/bug-in-stl
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11:32:12  <argoneus> how does this even happen
11:32:14  <Eddi|zuHause> ottd is clearly terribly designed software that barely holds together
11:32:36  <argoneus> ottd seems well specified to me
11:32:47  <argoneus> bit-perfect tailored code
11:33:22  <andythenorth> ha ha ha ha
11:33:27  <Alberth> :D
11:34:23  <argoneus> :(
11:34:26  <argoneus> a man can dream, ok
11:35:02  <Eddi|zuHause> ottd is a giant pile of historically grown wrong design decisions
11:35:19  <argoneus> time to rewrite it in haskell
11:35:39  <Alberth> ha ha ha :D
11:36:24  <Alberth> you will soon find out real-world programs and functional programming don't go well together :p
11:36:36  <andythenorth> yes but can you mathematically prove that?
11:36:45  <argoneus> but people over in #haskell say how great funcprog is for real-world problems
11:36:48  <andythenorth> functional programming is pure
11:36:53  <andythenorth> everything is contractual
11:37:00  <argoneus> that you can define a domain specific language for your problem pretty much
11:37:01  <andythenorth> there is no chance of anything muting state behind your back
11:37:05  <argoneus> and then it's easy to maintain
11:37:08  <argoneus> n-no?
11:37:12  <Eddi|zuHause> i have used functional-ish concepts in my python programs
11:37:25  <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: functional-ish doesn't count
11:37:53  <andythenorth> nothing but _pure_ functional programming will save us from the clear failure of OO concepts and practice
11:37:58  <andythenorth> it's mathematically provable
11:38:07  <argoneus> tbh
11:38:10  <argoneus> OO can be limiting
11:38:23  <argoneus> it forces you to think within a certain mindset
11:38:26  <argoneus> that may not make sense for your problem
11:38:27  <Eddi|zuHause> and functional is not limiting?
11:38:34  <Eddi|zuHause> or forcing you into a mindset?
11:38:35  <argoneus> Eddi|zuHause: I haven't done funcprog enough to comment on that
11:38:40  <argoneus> but from what they say not really
11:38:44  <argoneus> that's just parroting though
11:39:02  <andythenorth> from boilerplate import *
11:39:17  <Eddi|zuHause> functional programming is used in universities around the planet do break the minds of young programmers.
11:39:57  <Eddi|zuHause> s/do/to/
11:41:35  <Alberth> it's a nice paradigm, but it believes programs are simple input/output functions, which just fails in real world
11:41:40  <Eddi|zuHause> because universities want you to un-learn all the misconceptions you have from dabbling in your early programming days
11:43:24  <Eddi|zuHause> yeah, most of my "real world" programs are processes. i.e. you have a constant stream of inputs and a constant stream of outputs, and it never terminates.
11:45:53  <argoneus> that's where monads come in :>
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11:48:08  <andythenorth> V453000: https://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/7614/liquids_terminal_1.png
11:48:10  <andythenorth> o_O
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11:53:55  <andythenorth> this one is accident, but looks more wtf?  https://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/7615/liquids_terminal_2.png
12:01:36  <V453000> looks nice
12:01:41  <V453000> the gray balls look flat
12:01:58  <V453000> the bottom right side needs shadows I think
12:03:50  <andythenorth> probly does
12:04:01  <andythenorth> those things are used in about 50 different industries :P
12:04:29  <andythenorth> copy-pasteo eh?
12:04:48  <V453000> yeah I know
12:04:48  <V453000> doesnt make them any better :P
12:05:44  * andythenorth should fix
12:06:03  <V453000> btw I will probably have various releases of BRIX, with various landscape colours
12:06:33  <V453000> so people can choose between desaturated/green/darker green/desert-ish/...
12:09:12  <andythenorth> nice
12:10:21  <V453000> I got it all automated, so I just need to figure out how to change the materials to the various colours with as low amount of effort as possible
12:13:02  <andythenorth> I like this layout enough https://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/7616/liquids_terminal_3.png
12:13:10  <andythenorth> maybe that's done, for now at least
12:13:43  <V453000> looks grate
12:13:47  <V453000> still them balls though :P
12:13:51  <andythenorth> something a bit off about it
12:13:52  <andythenorth> dunno what
12:13:53  <andythenorth> nvm
12:14:00  <andythenorth> needs a tanker barge is one thing
12:14:04  <V453000> shadow at the bottom right is missing
12:14:32  <V453000> and perhaps some on the right/top right as well
12:14:46  <V453000> to make the edges darker
12:14:58  <andythenorth> lacks definitiion?
12:18:13  <V453000> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/20419525/liquids_terminal_3edit.png
12:18:30  <V453000> probably needs it also a bit at the top
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12:18:53  <andythenorth> better
12:18:57  <Wolf01> o/
12:19:42  <V453000> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/20419525/liquids_terminal_3edit2.png
12:20:02  <andythenorth> yeah that
12:20:12  * andythenorth needs it in a cutout png :P
12:20:12  <V453000> feel free to use it :)
12:20:17  <V453000> haha
12:20:36  <V453000> where is the sprite?
12:21:59  <V453000> lol one RAWR png is 75 MB XD
12:22:02  <V453000> all sprites for one climate
12:22:04  <andythenorth> https://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/firs/repository/entry/src/graphics/industries/liquids_terminal_1.png
12:22:22  <V453000> and do you have a sprite of 1 bally thing?
12:22:35  <V453000> me bets they are copypasted
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12:27:02  <andythenorth> all copypasted
12:27:12  <andythenorth> I don't have a single one
12:27:21  <andythenorth> but do the front one, I'll figure out the other 3
12:28:09  <andythenorth> frosch123: http://tropico.wikia.com/wiki/Smuggler%27s_Dock o_O
12:28:12  <V453000> I did the front one in the screenshot already :P
12:28:26  <andythenorth> it's got AA crap in it :)
12:28:30  <V453000> k
12:28:32  <andythenorth> maybe from the screenshot or something?
12:28:44  <V453000> yeah idk what screenshot software are you using
12:28:53  <V453000> will fix the one in the actual sprite
12:29:09  <V453000> need to make model for road crossing now, will do your sprite when it renders
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12:29:39  <andythenorth> fanks :)
12:29:49  <andythenorth> anyone played tropico?
12:29:52  * andythenorth considers it
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12:31:59  <frosch123> hmm
12:32:00  <Wolf01> tropico is fun, but I never managed to win :D
12:32:01  <frosch123> moin
12:32:05  <Wolf01> o/
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13:02:09  <V453000> andythenorth: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/20419525/liquids_terminal_1.png
13:02:35  <V453000> I believe that should do it
13:10:24  <andythenorth> nice :)
13:11:55  <V453000> feel free to use in any way you like ... I also left there the sources for stuff so you can reuse it individually :P
13:13:02  <andythenorth> going to copy-paste to all the other spritesheets using it :)
13:19:39  <andythenorth> looks *much* better in game
13:19:40  <andythenorth> thanks
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13:25:25  <Hydros> howdy
13:26:36  <Alberth> hi hi
13:40:34  <andythenorth>  bbl
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18:45:45  <DorpsGek> Commit by translators :: r27499 /trunk/src/lang (catalan.txt korean.txt) (2016-01-17 19:45:36 +0100 )
18:45:46  <DorpsGek> -Update from Eints:
18:45:47  <DorpsGek> korean: 34 changes by telk5093
18:45:48  <DorpsGek> catalan: 10 changes by juanjo
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18:51:49  <andythenorth> xo/
18:52:34  <Alberth> hi hi
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19:07:05  * andythenorth pixels
19:07:53  <V453000> :)
19:22:32  <Wolf01> meh, no diablo this evening, blizzy ran out of servers :(
19:23:56  <V453000> xd
19:24:40  <frosch123> has there always been a mapeditor in F ?
19:24:44  <frosch123> just noticed it
19:25:01  <frosch123> (not that I would care, generated maps are better)
19:29:47  <V453000> I think there was, at least for a long time
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19:30:04  <V453000> but yeah I never used it either
19:30:05  <andythenorth> I wish I hadn't upgraded mercurial :(
19:30:06  <V453000> but yeah I never used it either
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19:31:01  * andythenorth is having 'nothing works' trouble :P
19:31:47  <V453000> love that
19:31:50  <V453000> updates ftw
19:32:01  <V453000> luckily I never updated tortoise hg
19:32:04  <V453000> didnt dare
19:32:25  <V453000> if tortoise would fuck up, I would probably just never fix it XD
19:34:05  <andythenorth> hg can't understand graphics files anymore
19:34:14  <andythenorth> so it just constantly reports them as changed
19:34:21  <andythenorth> making hg status useless
19:36:52  <Alberth> the editor writes meta data in it?
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19:37:28  <Alberth> wb
19:40:22  <andythenorth> probably does
19:40:39  <andythenorth> it's frustrating, because hg status can see the change, but hg commit can't
19:40:47  <andythenorth> so I have non-removable, non-commitable changes
19:41:07  <andythenorth> the only solution I've found is to rm -r src, then hg revert --all
19:41:17  <andythenorth> which is a horrible workflow
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19:51:16  <Alberth> huh, that's weird
19:51:37  <Alberth> what does "hg diff" say?  https://www.mercurial-scm.org/wiki/FAQ/CommonProblems
19:52:03  <Alberth> "hg status shows changed files but hg diff doesn't!"
19:56:09  <andythenorth> zero diff
19:56:26  <glx> multiple parents maybe then
19:56:57  <andythenorth> how does one get multiple parents in hg?
19:57:13  <glx> after a merge
20:01:07  <andythenorth> is this why I was warned to never merge in hg?
20:06:02  <Alberth> hg diff --git     (or is that standard in your setup?)
20:11:16  <andythenorth> I tried it :)
20:11:18  <andythenorth> zero diff
20:13:34  <andythenorth> biab
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20:34:28  <V453000> lol my highscore table is empty :d
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20:38:01  <Alberth> work to do :)
20:38:19  <Alberth> mine is empty too btw, I never finish openttd :)
20:39:52  <V453000> I used to have some but myeah :D
20:40:14  <V453000> trying to upload BRIX screenshots fails badly, wifi fucked up :(
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20:42:26  <V453000> BRIX is 12,5 GB folder atm :D
20:42:32  <V453000> fuck humans
20:42:40  <Alberth> quite :)
20:43:04  <V453000> almost 10GB is in 3D files though, which as latest version are only like 250 MB
20:43:07  <Alberth> soo many pixzelz
20:43:24  <V453000> rest is sprites and renders though
20:44:52  <Alberth> good night
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21:40:02  <argoneus> it turns out
21:40:12  <argoneus> when you want to code something, and you're not sure how to structure it properly
21:40:27  <argoneus> instead of trying to make up a complex design, just code things that work and refactor as needed
21:40:40  <argoneus> ._.
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