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00:00:06 <Samu> i'm using wsirc.com instead 00:02:24 <Samu> Just came to say I posted the results of the Road Vehicles competition here https://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=65&p=1171159#p1171159 00:03:32 <Samu> took me 7 days non-stop :o hope it interests someoney 00:03:56 <Samu> I want to move on to testing trains next 00:08:21 <Samu> @logs 00:08:21 <DorpsGek> Samu: http://irclogs.qmsk.net/channels/openttd 00:08:47 <Samu> cyas all goodnight 00:08:50 *** Samu [~Samu@www.nisys.be] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:04:04 *** Myhorta [~Myhorta@00018fad.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 01:09:01 *** Cybertinus [~Cybertinu@cybertinus.customer.cloud.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 01:16:19 *** Cybertinus [~Cybertinu@cybertinus.customer.cloud.nl] has joined #openttd 01:16:53 *** Snail [~jacopocol@cpe-98-14-130-227.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Snail] 01:42:50 *** Xal [~xal@S0106f0f2490b0073.vw.shawcable.net] has joined #openttd 01:49:21 *** Xal [~xal@S0106f0f2490b0073.vw.shawcable.net] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 1.5] 01:49:52 *** Xal [~xal@S0106f0f2490b0073.vw.shawcable.net] has joined #openttd 01:52:15 *** Xal [~xal@S0106f0f2490b0073.vw.shawcable.net] has quit [] 01:52:41 *** Xal [~xal@S0106f0f2490b0073.vw.shawcable.net] has joined #openttd 01:53:24 *** Xal [~xal@S0106f0f2490b0073.vw.shawcable.net] has quit [] 02:17:19 *** Goddesen_ [~quassel@51.174.164.106] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:18:40 *** Goddesen [~quassel@51.174.164.106] has joined #openttd 02:44:36 *** Snail [~jacopocol@cpe-98-14-130-227.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #openttd 03:09:37 *** glx [~glx@000128ec.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: Bye] 03:45:13 *** Ethereal_Whisper [~Tricia@2600:8800:1280:5200:50a0:4633:1be8:57d3] has joined #openttd 03:55:46 *** Snail [~jacopocol@cpe-98-14-130-227.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Snail] 04:02:00 *** ToneKnee_ [~quassel@host86-135-237-208.range86-135.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 04:08:04 *** ToneKnee [~quassel@host31-53-200-65.range31-53.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 05:29:42 <Alkel_U3> supermop_: that seems to answer my question whether the profit shares are calculated properly 05:32:32 *** Arveen [~Arveen@ip-109-91-72-28.hsi12.unitymediagroup.de] has joined #openttd 05:49:07 <Alkel_U3> supermop_: I hope you don't mind me hijacking that west part. I need tha trains to have a destination 06:35:14 <Alkel_U3> supermop_: your company's end had an adverse effect on both Fargl's and my companies' profits. I even ran in red numbers until the flow of cargo changed 06:57:32 *** tokai [~tokai@00012860.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 06:57:35 *** mode/#openttd [+v tokai] by ChanServ 07:04:24 *** tokai|noir [~tokai@00012860.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 07:11:26 *** Myhorta [~Myhorta@00018fad.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 07:48:05 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@host61-236-dynamic.24-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #openttd 07:48:17 <Wolf01> moin 08:00:50 *** chomwitt [~chomwitt@ppp-94-67-223-122.home.otenet.gr] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 1.0.1] 08:08:30 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@0001288e.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 08:08:30 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@host3-190-dynamic.51-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #openttd 08:16:34 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@0001288e.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 08:39:22 *** Xaroth [~Xaroth@00017153.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 08:39:36 *** Xaroth [~Xaroth@00017153.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 08:40:24 *** joho [~joho@takamachi.nanoha.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 08:40:54 *** murr4y [murray@54.77.13.229] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 08:41:02 *** skrzyp [skrzyp@skrzyp.me] has left #openttd [WeeChat 1.4] 08:41:30 *** murr4y [murray@54.77.13.229] has joined #openttd 08:43:36 *** joho [~joho@takamachi.nanoha.se] has joined #openttd 08:58:22 *** lugo [~lugo@000189e6.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 08:58:56 *** Arveen [~Arveen@ip-109-91-72-28.hsi12.unitymediagroup.de] has quit [Quit: Nettalk6 - www.ntalk.de] 09:29:00 *** sla_ro|master [slamaster@89.136.141.100] has joined #openttd 09:39:07 *** Hiddenfunstuff [~Geth@y32.ip1.anvianet.fi] has joined #openttd 09:41:19 *** ChoHag [~mking@195.200.244.51] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 09:51:11 *** ChoHag [~mking@195.200.244.51] has joined #openttd 10:33:40 *** Samu [545bfabc@ircip2.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 10:33:44 *** Samu [545bfabc@ircip2.mibbit.com] has quit [autokilled: Mibbit is no longer supported, please use https://webchat.oftc.net or mail support@oftc.net with questions. (2016-06-17 10:33:44)] 10:39:10 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@0001288e.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 10:39:20 <Wolf01> shitty ISP 10:39:22 <Wolf01> o/ 10:40:58 *** Arveen [~Arveen@ip-109-91-72-28.hsi12.unitymediagroup.de] has joined #openttd 10:45:14 *** monsted_ [~monsted@rootweiler.dk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:26:05 *** efess [~Efess@c-24-61-64-170.hsd1.ct.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:29:29 *** Ribena [Ribena@host-78-150-215-160.as13285.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:29:45 *** Ribena [~HSquishy@88-110-144-91.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has joined #openttd 11:36:22 *** Samu [~oftc-webi@po1-84-91-250-188.netvisao.pt] has joined #openttd 11:36:29 <Samu> hi 11:37:04 <Samu> just started the train competition for AIs 12:03:21 *** smoke_fumus [~smoke_fum@188.35.176.90] has joined #openttd 12:11:37 *** Snail [~jacopocol@cpe-98-14-130-227.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #openttd 12:15:14 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@0001288e.user.oftc.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:16:44 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@0001288e.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 12:19:15 *** efess [~Efess@c-24-61-64-170.hsd1.ct.comcast.net] has joined #openttd 12:21:44 *** Snail [~jacopocol@cpe-98-14-130-227.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 12:29:27 *** Snail [~jacopocol@cpe-98-14-130-227.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #openttd 12:31:04 *** roidal [~roland@194-152-170-21.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #openttd 12:32:02 *** Supercheese [~Superchee@cpe-76-178-137-142.natnow.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:32:41 *** Supercheese [~Superchee@cpe-76-178-137-142.natnow.res.rr.com] has joined #openttd 12:39:44 *** lugo [~lugo@000189e6.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 12:52:09 *** sla_ro|master [slamaster@89.136.141.100] has quit [] 13:01:26 *** Snail [~jacopocol@cpe-98-14-130-227.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Snail] 13:02:53 *** NoShlomo [~NoShlomo@90.74.151.136] has joined #openttd 13:30:52 <supermop_> Alkel_U3: technically i don't get paid for any passengers travelling on my lines if their final delivery is made by your vehicle 13:31:36 <supermop_> so effectively most of my services were running as charities 13:31:54 <supermop_> i think only one of my trams made profit 13:32:50 <Alkel_U3> supermop_: yeah, I hoped the patch would split the income when the cargo transfers to another company. Unfortunately it's not that case 13:33:21 <supermop_> it would be fine if both networks were similar in size and topology 13:33:38 <supermop_> as we'd each have a similar share of final deliveries 13:34:02 <Alkel_U3> yeah, you lacked enough large cities 13:34:04 *** M-E [~M@ip4da0d6bd.direct-adsl.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 13:34:04 <supermop_> but that last mountain line did me in once i finally connected it to fargliders station 13:34:32 <supermop_> because that was just moving passengers between your two networks 13:34:48 <supermop_> when i had it still stopping short it was making a ton of money 13:35:44 <supermop_> that and when i accidentally rasied some ocean land i lost all of my cash cushion that would have let me build out more money making routes in the east and industrial services to recover 13:36:12 <supermop_> as the mountain line was intended to eventually serve many industrial routes 13:37:50 <supermop_> the last few moments i tried starting a separate company to see if i could then buy out my failing one, but couldn't get cash fast enough before it went under 13:39:10 <Alkel_U3> too bad I wasn't around, maybe I'd buy it :P 13:39:13 <supermop_> should have left the server once i got the bankrupcy warnings as i knew was going to take about 1M and a year or so to recover, then you could have bought out or loaned the capital 13:39:48 <Alkel_U3> well, I don't know about the infra sharing next time, seems pretty double edged 13:40:11 <supermop_> was working alright for me until the end, 13:40:18 <supermop_> i wasn't making a ton of money 13:40:26 <supermop_> but at least solvent 13:41:19 <Alkel_U3> I hoped I could at least reclaim the abandoned station names but apparently they were tied to the old company to prevent stealing? 13:41:41 <supermop_> i don't play the game to make tonnes of money or build huge things, i play with the goals to make an interesting network, and to 'provide service' to as many of the 'citizens' of the map as possible 13:42:02 <Alkel_U3> yeah, me too, generally 13:42:54 <supermop_> so for me losing money and sharing infrastructure are realizations of those goals in a way 13:43:17 <supermop_> i guess IS needs contracts or royalties or something 13:44:08 <supermop_> like pay 1M over 5 years as part of agreement to move these x passengers 13:44:57 <supermop_> you'd have to fake it by gifting money and guessing what the worth of a loss making service is to other players 13:46:06 <Alkel_U3> there's just the fixed fee for using the infrastructure, but that's apparently completely inadequate 13:46:37 <supermop_> well on our map we didn't share trackage 13:47:01 <supermop_> only platforms at terminal stations 13:47:58 <supermop_> i tried to get farglider to go in on a shared double track line via helan, but he prefered to bypass 13:48:17 <Alkel_U3> I'd say it would make sense to split the cargo's trip to segments isolated to each company and have them paid separately 13:48:46 <supermop_> well i don't think any of my freight was on shared infrastructure 13:49:30 <Alkel_U3> he wasn't too happy about being presented with that without his input. Hell, people, communicate :P (I told him to sort it out...) 13:49:56 <supermop_> Alkel_U3: then you have the issue that 3 players could conspired to send passengers on a round -the world trip to the next town over 13:50:09 <supermop_> and each would get paid for a long trip 13:50:22 <supermop_> even though the passengers only travelled a few tiles 13:50:26 <Alkel_U3> I know, it's not bulletproof 13:50:46 <Alkel_U3> but you can do that in singleplayer, too 13:51:07 <Alkel_U3> just have the train go around three times 13:51:13 <supermop_> although in real life if you travel from London to Paris via Shanghai, you almost always will pay more 13:51:29 <supermop_> it is up to you to buy the cheaper direct ticket 13:51:36 <Alkel_U3> I run some of my trains on Fargl's track 13:52:07 <Alkel_U3> anyway, later. Leaving home, parties ahead 13:52:18 <Alkel_U3> s/home/work/ 13:52:57 <supermop_> ha ok 13:53:33 <supermop_> well i tried to explain how my track was making him more money and only costing me, but i guess everyone has different goals 13:53:36 <supermop_> later 14:07:11 *** Alberth [~alberth@2001:981:c6c5:1:be5f:f4ff:feac:e11] has joined #openttd 14:07:14 *** mode/#openttd [+o Alberth] by ChanServ 14:07:21 <Alberth> hihi 14:08:35 <Samu> hi 14:09:56 <Samu> the convert utility of glx doesn't work for my patched openttd builds 14:10:06 <Samu> :( 14:10:30 <Samu> openttd.exe -D -c D:\OpenTTD\Core8\openttdCore8.cfg >> D:\OpenTTD\Core8\openttdCore8.log 2>&1 14:11:25 <Samu> it only dumps this into the log "dbg: [net] Starting dedicated version 1.6.1-RC1" 14:11:28 <Samu> nothing else 14:12:28 <Alberth> 2>&1 looks like a unix shell trick to me 14:12:38 <Alberth> or does windows do that too? 14:13:02 <Samu> i don't know, that's how glx teached me 14:13:32 <Samu> it works for openttd builds downloaded from openttd.org, but not when i build openttd with visual studio 14:16:23 <Alberth> don't know what the compile farm uses 14:30:03 <Samu> https://www.microsoft.com/resources/documentation/windows/xp/all/proddocs/en-us/redirection.mspx?mfr=true 14:30:16 <Samu> what are handles? 14:30:24 <Samu> openttd handles? 14:33:04 *** _johannes [~johannes@port-92-203-138-20.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #openttd 14:33:11 <Samu> 3&>1 wrote this to log file "D:\OpenTTD\Core8>exit" 14:33:31 <Samu> gonna try 4&>1 etc 9&>1 14:33:57 * Wolf01 *facepalm* 14:35:24 <Samu> ? 14:35:30 <Wolf01> nothing 14:35:35 <Samu> how does it work' 14:35:53 <Wolf01> wrong universe 14:42:18 <Wolf01> boring migration ever... 32GB SD -> 128GB SD 14:45:06 *** Ethereal_Whisper [~Tricia@2600:8800:1280:5200:50a0:4633:1be8:57d3] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:46:25 <Wolf01> at least this time I checked the right format instead of copying everything and format it after :| 14:47:29 <Alberth> dd would probably work, at the cost of 96GB :p 14:47:52 <Eddi|zuHause> Alkel_U3: you could make a company picking up a passenger pay the current transfer estimate to the company that last transported it, but that means the transfer estimate has now a gameplay effect, which worsens its inherent wrongness... 14:49:17 <Wolf01> meh 1.5 hours to copy everything... 14:49:26 <Eddi|zuHause> or you could eliminate transfer credits alltogether, and treat every delivery as final, but this opens up "back and forth" transporting abuse 14:49:57 <Eddi|zuHause> Wolf01: 90% of working with computers is watching it do something automatically 14:50:45 <Eddi|zuHause> ... i used to have a patch eliminating transfer credits 14:50:49 <supermop_> Eddi|zuHause: i guess 'wrong' at least isn't ripe for abuse 14:50:51 <Eddi|zuHause> but i can't look for it right now 14:51:23 <supermop_> and any payment, even too little would be better than running a loss making railway as charity 14:51:23 <Alkel_U3> yeah, I know. Thought about both way you described and don't like any of them 14:51:41 <Eddi|zuHause> supermop_: transfer estimate is usually too high 14:51:58 <Eddi|zuHause> supermop_: so the person running the last leg is screwed now 14:52:02 <Alberth> Wolf01: can't just continue to work? disk will copy also if you don't watch :) 14:52:31 <supermop_> otherwise any company acting as common carrier will eventually collapse or be bought at discount by its beneficiaries 14:52:57 <supermop_> Alberth: maybe he gets paid for those 1.5 hours 14:53:28 <Eddi|zuHause> supermop_: but instead of the "backbone" just running into its own running costs, the last leg can amount huge deficits 14:53:39 <supermop_> Eddi|zuHause: what if you were paid a royalty on the transfer credit - like between 10 and 60% of the estimate 14:53:52 <supermop_> configurable 14:54:02 <Eddi|zuHause> supermop_: the estimate is already configurable in that way 14:54:05 <Wolf01> also 80MB/s my ass 14:54:28 <Eddi|zuHause> Wolf01: that figure is usually for "writing into the cache", which is complete nonsense 14:54:41 <supermop_> so you are still encouraged to seek out your own profitable routes, but you can hopefully at least cover costs when carrying traffic for others 14:54:51 <Alkel_U3> the estimate might still be very wrong. Sometimes the last vehicle in the chain making the final delivery will display loss 14:55:40 <Alkel_U3> also I guess it gets more smudged with too many hops 14:56:12 <Eddi|zuHause> well, the only "real" solution is to store the travel times and distances for each company separately, which hugely inflates storage for cargopackets 14:56:31 <Eddi|zuHause> which is why nobody ever implemented that 14:56:34 <Wolf01> even while reading, I'm copying over usb3 to SSD and it transfers to 4MB/s 14:57:23 <Alkel_U3> I'd be willing to live with that, if it fit into, say 5 Mbps, but otherwise I can see how that would be a problem 14:58:06 <Eddi|zuHause> Alkel_U3: bandwidth is not an issue, but memory usage 14:58:32 <Eddi|zuHause> (and processing time) 14:58:34 <Alkel_U3> oh 14:58:43 <Alkel_U3> right, I got that wrong 14:59:30 <Eddi|zuHause> anyway, gtg 14:59:37 <Samu> there's a difference on both openttd.exes :( 13,5 MB (14.243.328 bytes) vs 13,4 MB (14.075.904 bytes) 15:03:10 <Alberth> do computers have multiple USB controllers nowadays? 15:03:26 <Alkel_U3> afaik yes 15:05:26 <Alkel_U3> yes, my 2-3 year old board apparently has three 15:06:26 *** FLHerne [~flh@cpc4-papw5-2-0-cust175.5-3.cable.virginm.net] has joined #openttd 15:06:43 <Alberth> I only use USB for keyboard and mouse, so nothing even remotely fast, but for multiple disks that should work 15:15:59 <Samu> I still don't know how to build OpenTTD without getting that 'M' in the version 15:18:28 <Alberth> don't modify the source 15:18:45 *** Klanticus_ [~quassel@177.34.163.192] has joined #openttd 15:19:09 <Samu> then it doesn't build 15:19:21 <Samu> errors about missing files 15:19:26 <Samu> unicode stuff 15:19:46 <Samu> #include <unicode/coll.h> 15:20:28 <Samu> complains on png.h 15:21:54 *** Klanticus [~quassel@177.34.163.192] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:23:36 <Samu> dmusici.h, lzo.h, ft2build.h, unicode/uversion.h, lzma.h, lzo/lzo1x.h, zlib.h, unicode/coll.h 15:24:12 <Samu> how do i make it so that visual studio doesn't complain about missing files and also doesn't put an 'M' into the version? 15:26:26 <Alberth> supply the missing files, I'd say 15:27:34 <Alberth> maybe you can disable unicode too, but that's a bit tricky with foreign languages 15:28:44 <Alberth> likely, you have to compile some libraries and add them to visual studio for openttd tofind 15:50:37 <_johannes> Hey, I have the railroad network exporter finished, however, I'd like to bring in the json library I wrote as a library... is this OK, and are git submodules suggested? 15:51:39 <_johannes> What I mean is, I have a file named json.h which is not OpenTTD specific, so I have it as a library on github... how do I use it in OpenTTD? with submodules? 15:57:06 <Alberth> as a library, probably 15:57:23 <Alberth> ie like pnglib 15:57:46 <Alberth> bunch of .h files, and a .so/.a/.dll file 15:58:38 <Alberth> other option is to add it as source code in a subdirectory, ie make it part of openttd 16:01:25 <_johannes> Alberth: is pnglib distributed with OpenTTD? 16:03:23 <Alberth> I mentioned pnglib *before* mentioning "other option ... add source code" 16:05:20 <Samu> i can't make it work. when I add stuff to the include, it changes a file 16:05:21 <Alberth> but no pnglib is not distributed with openttd, but there is stuff in ./configure to find/attach it 16:06:34 <_johannes> Alberth: ok, I just wanted to make sure you mean that 16:06:52 <Samu> projects/openttd_vs140.vcxproj - file changes, then openttd version must be detecting the change 16:07:04 <Samu> and puts the 'M' 16:07:05 <Samu> why 16:07:57 <_johannes> Alberth: so the other option, e.g. making it part of openttd would be not to use submodules, but simply copy the library "as is" to OpenTTD, and whenever the library would change, I'd copy it over to OpenTTD again? 16:08:21 <Samu> https://paste.openttdcoop.org/pnouumjam - if i don't do these includes, OpenTTD can't build, I'm lost 16:09:40 <Alberth> _johannes: it becomes part of openttd in that case, you have to follow commit rules 16:09:52 <Alberth> ie provide a readable patch 16:10:27 <Alberth> but tbh I am not convinced we should have a json library of our own in openttd 16:10:46 <_johannes> Alberth: yes, I agree 16:10:56 <_johannes> which would leed to the first option 16:12:44 <Alberth> not sure, I'd like to have an established json implementation, that gets distributed as package with eg debian 16:13:16 <Alberth> and works for every platform that we have, in particular all the old stuff 16:13:50 <Alberth> if your library is the only one that works, we effectively locked openttd into your library 16:14:11 <Alberth> it could break if you decide to throw the code away, or make huge changes 16:14:34 <_johannes> actually it's just a small header of ~300 loc :D 16:15:41 *** sla_ro|master [slamaster@89.136.141.100] has joined #openttd 16:16:09 <Alberth> even if it was just 1 line, I'd say this is what you get when you depend on external source not under ones control 16:16:29 <Alberth> ie a disadvantage of the first option 16:17:39 <_johannes> ok then I'll go with option two :) 16:20:53 <_johannes> in that case, the library should use the coding conventions, correct? 16:22:55 <Alberth> that's adding the code to openttd? yep, it must, even 16:25:00 *** Myhorta [~Myhorta@00018fad.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:26:04 <Alberth> So glad I am not using visual studio :p 16:30:09 <Samu> think i found a way 16:30:28 <Samu> copy 'project' folders into a 'project2' folder 16:30:47 <Samu> then open the solution in project2 instead 16:30:53 <Samu> let's see if it builds without M 16:32:39 <Wolf01> V453000, hype intensifies 16:32:58 <Samu> OpenTTD r27601 16:33:01 <Samu> yay! I did it 16:33:08 <Samu> first time I build OpenTTD without M! 16:34:13 <Samu> darn, it was rather simple after all, I just didn't think of it before 16:34:54 <Samu> projects2/openttd_vs140.vcxproj is changed instead of the original projects/openttd_vs140.vcxproj 16:34:58 *** Gja [~Martin@93-167-84-102-static.dk.customer.tdc.net] has joined #openttd 16:35:37 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~farci@i59F6DDED.versanet.de] has joined #openttd 16:35:38 <Samu> thx Alberth for the help 16:35:59 <Alberth> I did? ok, yw :) 16:36:39 <Samu> yes, "don't modify the source", the only modification was that file 16:36:47 <Samu> now I know how to work around that 16:36:54 <Alberth> ah :) 16:38:08 <Samu> there's another way but i think it's not recommended 16:38:13 <Samu> hack the version? 16:38:28 *** glx [~glx@000128ec.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 16:38:31 *** mode/#openttd [+v glx] by ChanServ 16:39:07 <Alberth> "not recommended" is an understatement there :) 16:39:36 <Alberth> it generally causes massive confusion and problems like desyncs 16:41:28 *** zeknurn [~sup@hd9483b22.seveveb.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has joined #openttd 16:41:35 <Samu> i kinda wanted to try my stuff on 1.6.1-RC1 though, someone who shall not be named teached me a way to hack the version, and i tried :( 16:41:35 *** HerzogDeXtEr1 [~farci@i59F6C87E.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:42:42 <Wolf01> bye 16:42:44 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@0001288e.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.] 16:42:46 <Alberth> that's not possible 16:43:07 <Alberth> if you modify anything to 1.6.1-rc1, it's not 1.6.1-rc1 any more 16:43:47 <Alberth> ie there is no such thing as "modified 1.6.1-rc1", it doesn't exist 16:46:41 <Samu> ok i guess i was desperate for testers 16:46:46 *** Myhorta [~Myhorta@00018fad.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 16:58:39 *** Myhorta [~Myhorta@00018fad.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:01:15 <Samu> 13,5 MB (14.243.840 bytes) vs 13,4 MB (14.066.176 bytes) 17:01:22 <Samu> mine is still smaller 17:01:33 <Samu> shouldn't it be equal? 17:08:06 <Samu> the console stuff doesn't work 17:08:26 <Samu> dbg: [net] Starting dedicated version r27601 17:08:42 <Samu> glx, maybe you can hhelp 17:09:51 <Samu> your convert.exe tool doesn't work when i build r27601 17:09:59 <Samu> or 1.6.1-RC1 17:10:09 <Samu> only if i download it 17:10:13 <Samu> from openttd.org 17:10:19 <Samu> what's different? 17:10:40 <glx> weird because it only touches a bit in the PE header 17:10:58 <glx> and PE header is in all exe 17:11:48 <Samu> it says gui detected, converting to console 17:11:57 <Samu> then console detected, converting to gui if i open it again 17:12:06 <glx> then it works 17:12:07 <Samu> but... it doesn't dump text into the file 17:12:14 <Samu> openttd.exe -D -c D:\OpenTTD\Core8\openttdCore8.cfg >> D:\OpenTTD\Core8\openttdCore8.log 2>&1 17:12:52 <Samu> it only dumps a single line, and the rest is displayed in the console 17:13:29 <glx> the only diff between GUI and console is that it doesn't opent a console window in console mode 17:13:40 <Samu> "dbg: [net] Starting dedicated version r27601" is the only thing that goes into the .log 17:14:35 <glx> maybe debug level is too low 17:15:06 <glx> but convert.exe is not responsible 17:15:35 <Samu> debuglevel script=9 17:15:53 <Eddi|zuHause> didn't microsoft want to drop PE? 17:20:01 *** Progman [~progman@p57A18795.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 17:20:39 <Samu> gonna try without dpiawareness manifest thing 17:23:33 <Samu> with dpi awareness - 13,4 MB (14.066.176 bytes) / without dpi awareness - 13,4 MB (14.065.664 bytes) 17:23:54 <Samu> let's see if it changes anything 17:24:17 <glx> compile farm may use a different compiler than you 17:24:46 <Samu> nope, didn't change a thing, still only dumping that single line 17:24:59 <Samu> dbg: [net] Starting dedicated version r27601 17:25:14 *** Flygon [~Flygon@ppp118-209-162-57.lns20.mel8.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:25:14 <glx> add "-d9" to the command line 17:25:15 <Samu> the rest of the text is being displayed in the console 17:25:54 *** zeknurn [~sup@hd9483b22.seveveb.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:26:00 <Samu> likethis? openttd.exe -d9 17:26:06 <glx> hmm if it's shown in the console then "2>&1" seems ignored 17:26:32 <glx> put it before >> 17:26:43 <glx> IIRC order matters for windows 17:26:45 <Samu> it opens a 2nd window and puts the text in there, so there's 2 windowses 17:27:09 <Samu> sec, let me post a screenshot 17:27:18 <glx> it should not open a window in console mode 17:28:03 *** shirish [~quassel@117.195.100.107] has joined #openttd 17:28:16 <Samu> ah right, it was in gui mode 17:28:54 <Samu> you're right, only 1 window, but the text goes to console, not to file 17:29:10 <glx> and if you move 2>&1 ? 17:29:41 <Samu> move to where? I'm not sure what you mean 17:30:36 <Samu> ah before >>, let me see 17:30:47 *** smoke_fumus [~smoke_fum@188.35.176.90] has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.2.0 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/] 17:31:00 <Samu> openttd.exe -D -c D:\OpenTTD\Core8\openttdCore8.cfg 2>&1 >> D:\OpenTTD\Core8\openttdCore8.log like this? 17:31:14 <glx> yes 17:31:48 <Samu> didn't seem to work, it closed the command prompt window 17:32:02 <Samu> didn't launch server 17:33:12 <Samu> windows is complaining that the .log file is open by command processor, i can't delete it 17:33:16 <Samu> grr 17:33:39 <Samu> oops, let me retry 17:34:58 <Samu> nope, text is put into console window, the .log file now gets nothing at all 17:35:07 <Samu> but the file is still created, it's just empty 17:37:13 <Samu> sorry about when i said it closed the command prompt window, I had the server already running in the background and didn't notice 17:37:43 <Samu> what is that -d9 switch? 17:37:46 <glx> anyway >>file.log 2>&1 should work 17:37:56 *** zeknurn [~sup@hd9483b22.seveveb.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has joined #openttd 17:37:58 <glx> -d9 is debug level 9 17:38:07 <Samu> ok, gonna try 17:39:27 <Samu> wow, the console is going crazy 17:39:44 <Samu> going through a lot of text dump 17:40:29 <Samu> looking for a lot of tar files, sprites and stuff 17:41:29 <Alberth> well, you asked for every little detail that openttd does :) 17:41:55 <glx> yes that's -d9 :) 17:42:15 *** _johannes [~johannes@port-92-203-138-20.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Quit: leaving] 17:42:25 <Samu> ah, it got into the part it's generating map, and now it's telling me this non-stop: dbg: [console] Executing cmdline: '' 17:42:43 <Samu> it's doing that non-stop 17:42:47 *** supermop [~supermop@static-71-249-209-97.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has joined #openttd 17:43:06 <glx> it outputs all commands too IIRC 17:43:44 <Samu> screenshot is maybe better 17:44:23 <Samu> http://imgur.com/UnMbpFj 17:44:38 <Samu> i'm not typing anything in the console 17:45:52 *** debdog [~debdog@2a02:8070:4584:4200:7a24:afff:fe8a:d04d] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:47:16 *** gelignite [~gelignite@x4e3163dd.dyn.telefonica.de] has joined #openttd 17:48:06 *** gelignite_ [~gelignite@x4e3163dd.dyn.telefonica.de] has joined #openttd 17:48:09 *** gelignite [~gelignite@x4e3163dd.dyn.telefonica.de] has quit [] 17:48:15 *** gelignite_ [~gelignite@x4e3163dd.dyn.telefonica.de] has quit [] 17:49:01 *** gelignite [~gelignite@x4e3163dd.dyn.telefonica.de] has joined #openttd 17:49:30 *** supermop_ [~supermop@static-71-249-209-97.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:50:00 <Samu> now i'm getting that mixed with YAPF stuff 17:51:40 *** debdog [~debdog@2a02:8070:4584:4200:7a24:afff:fe8a:d04d] has joined #openttd 17:51:59 <Samu> doesn't let me type any command at all 17:52:08 <Samu> can only force close the server 17:53:12 <Samu> let me try the version from openttd.org 17:53:17 <Samu> brb 17:56:45 <Samu> it dumped the whole stuff into the .log 17:56:59 <Samu> but there is no executing cmdline: '' 17:57:07 <Samu> looks fine 17:57:10 <Samu> it works 17:57:28 <Samu> too bad, I wanted to try my stuff 17:57:34 <Alberth> nice eh? Windows thinks it's more important to dump stuff to screen than to let you enter a command to quit 17:57:41 <Samu> i got to build openttd.exe myself 17:59:26 <Samu> eh? don't get confused Alberth 17:59:52 <Samu> when i build here, it doesn't work, when i download from openttd.org, it works 18:01:34 <Samu> nevermind, it's me who's confused 18:03:14 <Samu> why is it doing the executing cmdline non-stop? 18:03:23 <Samu> and it's not even executing anything 18:05:21 <Samu> will test again, see if it writes more than just that single line 18:05:23 <Samu> brb 18:13:37 <Samu> it's not doing the executing cmdline this time, strange 18:13:43 <Samu> what's wrong? 18:14:29 <Samu> it let me type exit 18:23:33 <Samu> this is strange, it didn't write anything at all 18:23:45 <Samu> it's strnge, I was expecting at least a line 18:25:33 <Samu> what is: ^C 18:26:56 <Alberth> at unix, it sends the application connected to the command window a request to stop 18:27:49 <Samu> i closed the console window clicking the 'X' and it dumped just ^C into the .log 18:28:02 <Alberth> oh 18:28:10 <Alberth> weird 18:29:10 <Alberth> closing the console window may be a bad idea for a console application 18:29:44 <Alberth> it's like someone taking all windows and doors out of your house and replacing them by a wall 18:30:14 <Alberth> ie you rip out all methods to talk to the outside world, for the application 18:36:46 *** Myhorta [~Myhorta@00018fad.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 18:36:48 *** frosch123 [~frosch@00013ce7.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 18:38:20 <Alberth> hi hi 18:41:37 <frosch123> hoi 18:42:55 *** Mucht [~Martin@85-127-42-182.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #openttd 18:43:02 <Eddi|zuHause> polloi 18:43:17 *** supermop_ [~supermop@static-71-249-209-97.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has joined #openttd 18:47:09 <Samu> gonna try 32 bit version 18:49:26 *** supermop [~supermop@static-71-249-209-97.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:51:52 <Samu> dbg: [net] Starting dedicated version r27601 18:51:55 <Samu> same thing 18:52:55 <glx> and with trunk it works ? 18:53:40 <Samu> gonna try that now 18:55:45 <Samu> downloaded trunk from here, as zip package, https://www.openttd.org/en/download-trunk 18:55:56 <Samu> it works, both 32-bit and 64-bit 18:56:21 *** Wormnest [~Wormnest@s5596abd2.adsl.online.nl] has joined #openttd 18:56:26 <DorpsGek> Commit by frosch :: r27602 trunk/src/strings.cpp (2016-06-17 20:56:19 +0200 ) 18:56:27 <DorpsGek> -Fix [FS#6481]: Compilation with --disable-network. (Deranged) 18:56:33 <Samu> if I build them, from the source, also downloaded there, it won't work 19:18:45 *** ricus [~ricus@chunli.enric.me] has joined #openttd 19:29:37 *** Mucht [~Martin@000128e2.user.oftc.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:29:58 *** Alberth [~alberth@2001:981:c6c5:1:be5f:f4ff:feac:e11] has left #openttd [] 19:33:36 <Samu> doesn't work t.t 19:33:44 <Samu> r27602 just tested 19:34:02 <Samu> dbg: [net] Starting dedicated version r27602 19:34:09 <Samu> rest goes to console 19:34:40 <glx> fail for me too with VS2015 19:35:47 <glx> mingw is ok 19:36:05 <glx> needs to rebuild with VS2012 to test 19:39:33 *** Plaete [~moffi@x4d0a5655.dyn.telefonica.de] has joined #openttd 19:46:09 *** Progman [~progman@p57A18795.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:48:40 *** Plaete [~moffi@x4d0a5655.dyn.telefonica.de] has quit [Quit: Nettalk6 - www.ntalk.de] 19:50:25 *** FLHerne [~flh@cpc4-papw5-2-0-cust175.5-3.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Quit: There's a real world out here!] 19:50:47 *** FLHerne [~flh@cpc4-papw5-2-0-cust175.5-3.cable.virginm.net] has joined #openttd 19:54:59 *** The [~oftc-webi@02df8924.bb.sky.com] has joined #openttd 19:55:22 *** The [~oftc-webi@02df8924.bb.sky.com] has quit [] 19:59:41 <glx> works with VS2012 20:10:17 <Samu> does that mean vs120? 20:10:30 <Samu> oh 20:10:31 <glx> vs100 20:10:53 <Samu> ok let me try vs100, never actually used it 20:11:00 <glx> but I think it's because MS implemented vsnprintf 20:11:39 <glx> before VS2015 we needed our own function 20:13:08 <Samu> The build tools for Visual Studio 2010 (v100) cannot be found. To build using the Visual Studio 2015 (v140) build tools, either click the Project menu or right-click the solution, and then select "Upgrade Solution...". Install Visual Studio 2010 (v100) to build using the Visual Studio 2010 (v100) build tools. 20:13:13 <Samu> guess that i can't 20:16:24 <glx> hmm no, can't be because vsnprintf 20:16:48 <glx> but somehow something is done differently with VS2015 20:22:41 <glx> ok maybe because r27481 20:29:11 <frosch123> "CONOUT$" <- looks like basic :) 20:29:23 *** mnbvcxz [~mnbbvcxz@82-71-22-184.dsl.in-addr.zen.co.uk] has joined #openttd 20:29:44 *** mnbvcxz [~mnbbvcxz@82-71-22-184.dsl.in-addr.zen.co.uk] has quit [] 20:30:12 <frosch123> it's actually interesting that basic went for a postfix syntax to differ types 20:30:21 *** Klanticus [~quassel@177.34.163.192] has joined #openttd 20:30:22 <frosch123> usually stuff uses prefixes 20:30:28 <glx> yeah, anyway other seems to have problems with redirections in VS2015 20:33:06 <Samu> that means if i try r27480, it may work 20:33:07 <Samu> ? 20:33:24 <glx> no :) 20:33:27 <Samu> :( 20:33:30 *** Klanticus_ [~quassel@177.34.163.192] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:33:54 <glx> or maybe it will output correctly to the file, but not on screen 20:35:43 <Samu> will test, just updated to r27480 20:35:47 <glx> https://github.com/benvanik/xenia/issues/228 <-- here a comment says the redirection to a file from command line indeed works 20:40:55 *** AdmiralKew [~pcc31@122.2.16.44] has joined #openttd 20:52:57 *** roidal [~roland@194-152-170-21.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 1.4] 20:54:02 *** Arveen [~Arveen@ip-109-91-72-28.hsi12.unitymediagroup.de] has quit [Quit: Nettalk6 - www.ntalk.de] 20:55:51 <Samu> tried r27480, it dumps a lot of garbage to the .log file 20:55:58 <Samu> and then crashes shortly after 20:56:10 <Samu> a serious fault condition blabla 20:56:34 <Samu> dbg: [net] Starting dedicated version r27480 first line 20:56:45 <Samu> . . Y@óÅÿÃÃY@óÅÿÃî»hà TÃû[JÃTÃà @Q @Q " O P E N G F ~ 1 . T A R o p e n g f x - 0 . 5 . 2 . t a r šFÃÅÿÃÚFÃÅÿÃ黧RÃ黧RÃÃJ n o _ s o u n d . o b s x RšÃÅÿÃÃRšÃÅÿÃÃÃYçRÃÃÃYçRÃÃÌ⢠ 20:56:54 <Samu> and etc for the 2nd line onwards 20:56:59 <Samu> like that 20:57:40 <glx> yes VS2015 CRT changed things 20:58:03 <glx> and r27481 mostly fixed it 20:58:15 <Samu> ah yes. vs140 20:58:18 *** sla_ro|master [slamaster@89.136.141.100] has quit [] 20:58:31 <glx> but the fix breaks the redirection to file 20:58:41 <glx> happens for many projects 21:10:25 *** Defaultti [defaultti@lakka.kapsi.fi] has quit [Quit: Quitting.] 21:11:48 *** Defaultti [defaultti@lakka.kapsi.fi] has joined #openttd 21:22:13 *** gelignite [~gelignite@x4e3163dd.dyn.telefonica.de] has quit [Quit: http://bit.ly/1kso8Ta] 21:32:22 <Samu> Wormnest: 21:32:38 <Samu> i will try doing the average column 21:33:01 <Samu> i think some AIs were being subsidized 21:33:06 <Samu> terron 21:33:09 <Samu> or cpu 21:33:19 <Wormnest> How do you mean 21:33:30 <Samu> simpleai too, but not sure if they were being subsidized at the moment 21:33:36 <Samu> at 2051 21:34:00 <Wormnest> Well thatÂŽs part of the game so thatÂŽs ok with me 21:34:43 <Wormnest> At that time it probably doesnÂŽt matter that much 21:35:51 <Samu> i was thinking this formula: best income of last 2 years / total number of vehicles 21:36:36 <Samu> there was another formula I'd like to do, related to road piece usage, to determine efficiency, but i'm not sure how to go about that 21:36:49 <Samu> i expect nocab to be quite inneficient 21:37:02 <Wormnest> 2 years might work too 21:37:04 *** NoShlomo [~NoShlomo@90.74.151.136] has quit [Quit: NoShlomo] 21:37:17 <Samu> and dicatorai to be very efficient, think it's dictator who removes roads 21:38:13 <Wormnest> Well NoCAB goes for profits it doesnÂŽt care about the amount of roads it uses 21:38:46 <Wormnest> However i did make some pathfinding cost changes that should lower the amount a little in my version 21:39:49 <Samu> gelignAIte should be super efficient 21:39:57 <Samu> it has more vehicles than road pieces, :p 21:40:19 <Samu> hmm i'm having a hard time to determine a formula for efficiency 21:40:35 <Wormnest> Well it only builds a few rvs and then stops 21:41:10 <Samu> it doesn't stop, it re-locates the station to the edge of the town it's working on 21:41:33 <Samu> it does that a few times, don't know how many, but seems to reach a point where it doesn't do anymore 21:42:17 <Wormnest> Still it doesnÂŽt build more than a few vehicles 21:43:10 <Wormnest> I think itÂŽs wrongly listed on the wiki in the list of competetive aiÂŽs since itÂŽs not really 21:45:13 <Wormnest> What is efficient. Earning the highest amount of money with the least costs 21:45:30 <Wormnest> or a nice looking network 21:46:48 *** Netsplit magnet.oftc.net <-> charon.oftc.net quits: V453000, XeryusTC, xQR, Antheus, Yexo, +michi_cc, Stimrol, Lamp-, lobster 21:49:08 *** Netsplit over, joins: V453000, +michi_cc, Stimrol, lobster, Yexo, Lamp-, Antheus, XeryusTC, xQR 21:54:42 <Samu> the AI that surprised me the most was Trans 21:54:53 <Samu> i really expected much more 21:55:07 <Samu> it underperformed greatly from what I used to remember from it 21:55:51 <Samu> That road accross the map... took him 90 years pathfinding 21:55:55 <Samu> costed him the game 21:56:11 <Samu> I don't understand why it did that 21:58:21 <Wormnest> No idea. It sometimes doesnÂŽt peform very well for a long time and then all at once starts rising 22:00:53 *** Progman [~progman@p57A18795.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 22:01:31 <Samu> 90 years with 250k #ops 22:01:36 <Samu> oh well 22:02:12 <Samu> now i'm testing trains 22:02:48 <Samu> wormai is gonna be tested as the last one, i'm doing it in abc order 22:04:00 <Samu> maybe not the last one. if some ais crash due to taking long to save, i will test them again, at the end of those that can survive autosaves 22:06:04 <Samu> choochoo is always faking crashes.. i kinda hate him lol 22:06:10 <Wormnest> My fixed version of nocab should perform better than the original at leat I think so 22:06:17 <Wormnest> but its not finished yet 22:07:14 <Wormnest> I dont like that in ChooChoo either but what can you do lol 22:08:54 <Samu> dictatorai doesn't build a train 22:09:48 <Samu> denver & rio grande is surviving 22:10:07 <Samu> his default values for bridge lenght is really bad 22:10:15 <Samu> i reduced that to 20 22:10:21 <Wormnest> The current version of Dictator has problems with trains, it often crashes when handling trains 22:10:52 <Samu> it doesn't start anything, just picks the engine, then gives up 22:10:57 <Samu> picks in the log 22:11:02 <Samu> let me check 22:11:53 <Samu> dbg: [script] [0] [I] Forcing build: We have 0 vehicle running ! dbg: [script] [0] [I] Hard times going on, unleashing routes dbg: [script] [0] [I] Analysing the task pool dbg: [script] [0] [E] cEngineLib: Invalid vehicleID or engineID : #7 NOAI error: ERR_NONE 22:12:00 <Wormnest> Hm might be that Im using a changed version not sure. 22:12:18 <Samu> NOAI error: ERR_NONE 22:12:33 <Samu> that's all i see on his log everytime it tries to "unleash" routes 22:12:55 <Samu> doesn't build any rail track or station, just nothing 22:21:22 <Samu> nocab crashed of course, so i'm testing 7 22:21:36 <Samu> AdmiralAI is beating everybody else 22:22:21 <Samu> FastPTPAI had quite a start, leaving everybody else in the dust, but now... not really 22:23:28 <Wormnest> DictatorAI has a forum message suggesting it has trains disabled probably because of bugs 22:26:43 <Samu> most profitable train, for now, goes to AIAI 22:27:09 <Samu> it's still 1990... 22:29:47 *** Progman [~progman@p57A18795.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:45:48 *** Wormnest [~Wormnest@s5596abd2.adsl.online.nl] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:49:30 *** frosch123 [~frosch@00013ce7.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: be yourself, except: if you have the opportunity to be a unicorn, then be a unicorn] 23:09:13 *** sim-al2 [~sim-al2@108-221-157-231.lightspeed.mmphtn.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: I love my HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <-] 23:12:51 *** Gja [~Martin@93-167-84-102-static.dk.customer.tdc.net] has quit [Quit: Going offline, see ya! 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