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00:05:20 *** DDR has quit IRC 00:19:21 <Samu> glx, i got (uint)max_distance = INT_MAX 00:19:26 <Samu> which is still okay 00:19:51 <Samu> if (distdepot <= (uint)max_distance && distdepot < best_dist) { 00:20:16 <Samu> max_distance is a int and is equalt to INT_MAX 00:20:53 <glx> casting to uint never change the value, only its interpretation 00:21:12 <Samu> sometimes max_distance is equal to 20 00:21:23 <Samu> (uint)20 = 20 00:21:32 <Samu> so i got nothing to worry about then 00:21:33 <glx> negative int just become big uint 00:22:04 <glx> (uint)-1=MAX_UINT ;) 00:22:47 <Samu> ah nah. i'm never dealing with negative distances, the values max_distance can be are 0, 20 and INT_MAX 00:23:15 <glx> so it's safe for your math 00:23:24 <Samu> cool, thx 00:24:18 <Samu> alrigh, going to bed, tomorrow i'll post this, i just figured out better how to feed OPF 00:24:33 <Samu> patch is nearly ready for opf :) 00:24:50 <Samu> cyas 00:25:18 *** Samu has quit IRC 00:40:13 *** Supercheese has joined #openttd 01:20:24 *** orudge` has quit IRC 01:21:44 *** orudge` has joined #openttd 01:21:45 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o orudge` 01:25:54 *** APTX_ has joined #openttd 01:28:44 *** APTX has quit IRC 01:38:04 *** orudge` has quit IRC 01:38:06 *** orudge` has joined #openttd 01:38:06 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o orudge` 01:46:09 *** orudge` has quit IRC 01:46:16 *** orudge` has joined #openttd 01:46:16 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o orudge` 01:47:48 *** glx has quit IRC 02:16:51 *** orudge` has quit IRC 02:16:55 *** orudge` has joined #openttd 02:16:56 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o orudge` 02:21:38 *** guru3 has quit IRC 02:22:06 *** Compu has quit IRC 02:24:54 *** guru3 has joined #openttd 02:24:54 *** orudge` has quit IRC 02:24:58 *** orudge` has joined #openttd 02:24:59 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o orudge` 02:28:53 *** Compu has joined #openttd 03:58:14 *** orudge` has quit IRC 03:58:23 *** orudge` has joined #openttd 03:58:23 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o orudge` 04:06:28 *** orudge` has quit IRC 04:06:57 *** orudge` has joined #openttd 04:06:57 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o orudge` 04:29:14 *** orudge` has quit IRC 04:30:05 *** orudge` has joined #openttd 04:30:06 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o orudge` 04:32:35 *** Hiddenfunstuff has joined #openttd 04:46:38 *** orudge` has quit IRC 04:47:31 *** orudge` has joined #openttd 04:47:31 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o orudge` 05:42:16 *** Montana has joined #openttd 06:12:10 *** sim-al2 has quit IRC 06:14:24 *** Samu has joined #openttd 06:14:33 <Samu> @logs 06:14:33 <DorpsGek> Samu: https://webster.openttdcoop.org/index.php?channel=openttd 06:39:40 <Samu> anyone around? 06:40:19 <Supercheese> Maaaaaaybe 06:50:29 *** Arveen2 is now known as Arveen|Work 06:54:34 <Samu> nice, good morning 06:58:26 *** Flygon_ has joined #openttd 07:05:13 *** Flygon has quit IRC 07:09:51 <Samu> can someone review if these comments are good? does it need more clarification? https://paste.openttdcoop.org/pxwa9eode 07:09:58 <Samu> thx in advance 07:21:17 *** DDR has joined #openttd 07:28:20 *** zeknurn has quit IRC 07:30:10 *** Sova has joined #openttd 07:31:19 *** orudge` has quit IRC 07:31:22 *** orudge` has joined #openttd 07:31:23 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o orudge` 07:43:39 *** orudge` has quit IRC 07:44:12 *** orudge` has joined #openttd 07:44:12 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o orudge` 07:59:33 *** Montana has quit IRC 08:14:01 <peter1138> hi 08:14:31 *** Wolf01 has joined #openttd 08:15:10 <Wolf01> Moin 08:15:34 *** orudge` has quit IRC 08:15:42 <Samu> peter1138: can you look at my code for a moment? 08:15:53 *** orudge` has joined #openttd 08:15:53 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o orudge` 08:39:41 <Samu> dead chat 08:39:59 <peter1138> sorry i have a real job too :p 08:42:02 <Samu> t.t 08:43:08 <peter1138> i don't even know what that is meant to be 08:43:36 <Samu> what? 08:43:47 <Samu> it's locating a depot using opf 08:44:19 <peter1138> no, i mean 't.t' 08:44:28 <Samu> it gets the tile where a depot might be so it can ask the pathfinder 08:44:29 <Samu> oh 08:44:57 <Samu> having a job sucks 08:45:04 <Samu> unless you really like it 08:45:04 <Wolf01> It's the t member of a class in a variable t 08:45:24 <Wolf01> Yeah, having a job sucks :'( 08:45:28 <peter1138> :) 08:45:35 <peter1138> not having a job sucks more 08:46:14 <Samu> t.t is the same as :( 08:46:36 <Wolf01> I don't see the resemblance 08:47:34 <Samu> i have a question about this case VPF_OPF: max_distance = 12; break; 08:47:40 <Samu> why is it 12? 08:47:49 <peter1138> it's a good number 08:47:54 <Samu> the others at default are 20 08:48:10 <Samu> was there a special reason opf gets a lower max_distance than npf and yapf 08:51:40 <Samu> hmm i'll be back later to read the answer, if any, got to go out do something 08:51:48 <Samu> cya later 08:52:06 *** Samu has quit IRC 09:07:36 *** Supercheese has quit IRC 09:09:25 *** sla_ro|master has joined #openttd 09:40:49 *** anonoymous has joined #openttd 09:41:58 *** Samu has joined #openttd 09:42:44 <Wolf01> Aww, not even an hour, give us time to think 09:42:44 *** Samu_ has joined #openttd 09:42:57 <Samu_> t.t 09:43:01 <Samu_> :( 09:43:47 *** Samu has quit IRC 09:43:55 *** Samu_ has quit IRC 09:43:59 *** Samu has joined #openttd 09:50:39 *** Hiddenfunstuff has quit IRC 10:13:04 *** Sova has quit IRC 10:15:55 <Samu> i found something 10:16:00 <Samu> -Feature-ish: make maximum pathfinder penalties for finding depots customisable, also increase it slightly to 20 tiles worth of penalties. 10:16:12 <Samu> r18481 by Rubidium 10:16:38 <Samu> it was 12 10:16:41 <Samu> for all 10:17:07 <Samu> then it became 12/20/20 10:17:30 <Wolf01> I think nobody want to touch the OPF because "it just works" 10:18:02 <Samu> i was thinking 20/20/20, 20 for all 10:18:11 <Wolf01> And break OPF? 10:18:29 <Samu> it is gonna ask opf 10:18:32 <Wolf01> What if 20 formats your hard drive? 10:19:11 <Samu> only opf isn't customizable 10:19:42 <Wolf01> Maybe because even a slight change might make it unreliable? 10:20:17 <Samu> i don't think it's worth a customization though, but i guess it could be increased to 20, now that i made it use opf to search for it 10:20:58 <Samu> if, within 20, the opf finds a depot, the ship really goes to it 10:21:10 <Samu> but if it doesn't... 10:21:44 <Samu> it comes back with a UINT_MAX 10:22:04 *** mescalito has quit IRC 10:22:04 <Samu> UINT_MAX is higher than 20, so it fails 10:22:15 <Samu> it's also higher than 12 anyway 10:22:55 <Samu> then it resorts to finding a depot with distancemanhattan 10:23:09 <Samu> to a max of 20 tiles away 10:25:43 <Samu> if I leave it at 12, opf would only be searching within 12 tiles distance, but it could reliably find something further away... 10:26:10 <Samu> i dunno, i'm inclined to setting it to 20 10:28:13 <Samu> from opf code, it can find up to a length of 50 tiles 10:28:27 <Samu> reliably 10:28:38 <Samu> (but unlikely) 10:29:39 <Samu> okay, i'm setting it to 20 10:30:09 <Samu> if opf doesn't find, it's still UINT_MAX, returning no depot 10:30:34 <Samu> gonna post patch 10:46:59 *** Sova has joined #openttd 10:52:50 <UncleCJ> Hey everyone. My first game-related question here - I am confused by the "virtual" block signal at train stations. I've been successfully using one-way path signals and trains enter free tracks in the station, but now at one (spread) station they suddenly don't, effectively making it a single-track station. Any ideas? 10:54:35 <peter1138> there's no virtual block signal at a station 10:55:18 <peter1138> there are penalties for crossing junction tiles which can affect which platform is chosen 10:55:22 <peter1138> show us a picture 10:55:49 <Samu> here's the explanation for OPF, how I implemented it https://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=1184731#p1184731 10:57:13 <UncleCJ> peter1138: I'll have to get a picture later 10:58:08 <UncleCJ> peter1138: Exactly, that was one thought too, that it prefers a path that is busy and doesn't see the one that would be free 10:58:56 <UncleCJ> ... and I've considered if my 10 car+engine trains block the station, but that would be silly 10:59:07 <Samu> edited topic, added a bit more clarity 11:04:06 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd 11:04:08 *** andythenorth has left #openttd 11:04:31 <UncleCJ> peter1138: No invisible block signal at stations? Then I don't know why the video tutorial I watched mentioned it and how... oh, well I guess that could explain things... 11:06:40 <UncleCJ> On my working RORO I had path signals at the exit of each platform, breaking up the paths in entry junction + platform and exit junction. 11:17:10 <Samu> darn automatic services vs forced services, I'm always messing up these two during explanation 11:18:02 <Samu> whatever, the code works, explaining how it works, however... :| 11:22:38 <peter1138> ROROs need signals, yes 11:22:46 <peter1138> you can get away without signals on terminus stations 11:23:02 <peter1138> i tend to put them in though 11:27:36 <Wolf01> peter1138, maybe he mean the fact that a train wait at station end platform when using pbs 11:28:37 <Wolf01> UncleCJ, stations are safe waiting points with an implicit PBS signal, like depots 11:29:23 <peter1138> not a block signal certainly 11:30:25 <Wolf01> No, it's PBS, but it's active only with other PBS in the block, if you only use block signals it won't work 11:31:33 <UncleCJ> Wolf01: Well that's what I assumed, but seemed it didn't work like that - unless I broke entry+platforms+exit up somewhere a train wouldn't see that a platform was free but only that the whole complex was busy? 11:31:56 <Wolf01> Screen or didn't happen 11:32:19 <Wolf01> I don't even signal stations and junctions and everything works :P 11:32:20 <UncleCJ> Wolf01: :-) 11:33:35 <Samu> currently testing yapf original vs yapf with reachable, let's see if the company profits increase 11:33:43 <Samu> there's 89 ships in the company 11:37:57 <Samu> there is an increase 11:38:01 <Samu> yay, i'm pleased 11:38:42 <Samu> +£5,641,262 to +£5,717,100 11:39:38 <Samu> there was a decrease on the 2nd year, hmm 11:40:17 <Samu> +£5,838,146 vs +£5,820,247 11:40:22 <Samu> slight decrease 11:44:10 <Wolf01> See, don't mess up with the pathfinder 11:45:18 <Samu> 3 years straight with slighth decreases, hmm i wonder why 11:45:35 <Samu> the difference isn't much, about £15k-£20k 11:45:48 <Samu> but still... i'm wondering what went wrong 11:46:22 <Wolf01> Now you need to fix running costs 11:46:26 <Wolf01> Blizzard style 11:47:51 <UncleCJ> Wolf01: Screen: https://twitter.com/unclecj/status/847776506973745152 11:47:53 <Samu> the biggest difference on the 4th year, by about £300k, i must investigate better 11:48:50 <Samu> must see if i catch some ships behaving erraticaly if any 11:49:06 <Wolf01> Can you enable the PBS highlight? 11:49:08 <Samu> i see them all profiting 11:49:22 <Samu> so, i wonder why is reachable depot worse 11:49:45 *** Gja has joined #openttd 11:51:13 <Wolf01> Also you might be missing one piece of track on the 3 platform stations, the middle platform couldn't exit to north 11:52:09 <UncleCJ> Wolf01: I'll check that out later then 11:53:38 <UncleCJ> Wolf01: True, middle platform can't exit north. The main issue though (and I think I'll rebuild it from a roro terminus to proper roro) is that trains from the north won't enter the free platforms 11:53:38 <Samu> the situation reversed, a year later 11:54:01 <Samu> +£200k difference favoring reachable depot 11:54:07 <Samu> so this is quite varied it seems 11:55:23 <Wolf01> Samu, I really think that the profits are totally unrelated to your change, maybe you will get all ships to have profit as they don't get lost 11:56:07 <Samu> i suppose so, the world doesn't evolve the same 11:56:15 <Wolf01> You should look for a decrease of lost ships not for 0k difference on profit 11:56:45 <Samu> this savegame had 89 ships, none were lost 11:56:53 <Wolf01> And before the change? 11:57:18 <Samu> that's what i mean, before the change, none were lost 11:57:28 <Samu> after the change, none is lost as well 11:57:28 <Wolf01> Then what are you testing for? 11:57:58 <Samu> testing how much a pf finding depots would influence the profits 11:58:26 <Samu> in this case, yapf 11:59:06 <Wolf01> Testing how much changing the color of tiles in a supermarket affects profits 11:59:36 <Wolf01> https://media.giphy.com/media/rkXNems5uxExG/giphy.gif 12:00:27 <peter1138> UncleCJ, yeah, you, uh, need some signals! 12:00:28 <Samu> for this specific savegame, all depots were reachable, they might not have been the closest in terms of pf, perhaps i need another sample 12:02:09 <Samu> another thing i notice, it's fast forwarding faster on my build 12:02:28 <Wolf01> That's welcome 12:02:28 <Samu> already 5 months ahead 12:03:09 <Samu> i'm using 1.7.0-RC1 from openttd.org and the one i compiled here with vs2015, not sure if that can influence 12:03:29 <UncleCJ> peter1138: Well according to Wolf01 platforms have some PBS magic, but I'm listening to the tutorial again to understand 12:03:58 *** Gja has quit IRC 12:04:35 <Samu> alright, enough Yapf 12:04:44 <Samu> now gonna compare NPF 12:06:43 *** sim-al2 has joined #openttd 12:09:09 <crem> Hi sim-al2. 12:09:23 <crem> Here is some entropy for you, as a gift: itU7Eu5aqigTF6yftC0b 12:12:29 <Samu> about the same variances 12:12:57 <Samu> fast forwarding seems to be slightly slower, about 5 days delayed 12:14:44 <Samu> nothing is lost, everything is profiting 12:17:15 <Samu> alright, testing OPF now 12:17:35 <Samu> this one has a great degree of random 12:18:27 <Samu> uses Random() when chosing a direction if the distance with either choice is the same 12:20:13 <Samu> it appears to be fastforwading faster 12:20:30 <Samu> will wait a bit more for confirmation 12:23:34 <Samu> there's a greater variance favoring rechable depots, by about +£200k for 2 years straight 12:24:40 <Samu> but with this much randomness i can't be too sure 12:26:10 <Samu> on the 3rd year, less profit on my patch than on 1.7.0-rc1 12:26:19 <Samu> but only by -£30k 12:27:43 <Samu> in 3 years, fastforward is ahead by ~10 days 12:28:43 <Samu> that is a surprise, as I am asking the pf to pf so many depots per ship 12:29:03 <Samu> i've even increased the range from 12 to 20 12:29:09 <Samu> hmm interesting result 12:30:51 <Samu> 18 lost ships in 1.7.0-RC1, 18 lost ships in my build 12:31:09 <Samu> well, didn't get worse at least 12:31:48 <Samu> the same lost ships 12:32:05 <UncleCJ> Here was the mention of the "fictitious PBS signal at platforms", but as he doesn't clarify much it's more confusing than helpful. He uses it correctly though: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ekviqorobps&t=574s 12:34:28 <Samu> 19 lost ships now for 1.7.0-RC1 12:34:34 <Samu> only 18 for mine 12:34:35 <Samu> yay 12:35:38 <Samu> now it's the opposite, 18 on original, 19 on me 12:35:42 <Samu> heh, random is random 12:36:47 <Samu> alright, enough testing, i'm satisfied with these results overall 12:43:41 <peter1138> what's the performance hit like? 12:45:22 <Samu> in 6 years, fast forward was 1 month ahead 12:45:29 <Samu> with opf 12:45:37 <Samu> yapf in 6 years had 5 months ahead 12:45:48 <Samu> npf decreased about 1 month 12:46:23 <Samu> i wonder if i conducted the tests reliably, it was by eye 12:46:28 <Samu> not fool proof 12:48:29 *** Urmel has joined #openttd 12:49:16 <Samu> here's OPF decing my build vs 1.7.0-RC1 http://imgur.com/kKvyNsE 12:49:21 <Samu> deciding* 12:49:57 <Samu> distance manhattan alone would decide on EAST depot 12:50:39 <Samu> OPF deciding counts how many hops it had to travel for both and then picks the lowest 12:50:44 <Samu> picks WEST 12:53:19 <Samu> i hope npf and yapf also pick west, gonna confirm 12:54:09 <Samu> yep, npf picks west 12:54:14 <UncleCJ> When you build truck loading docks - how do you prefer to do them? I'm undecided between the drive-through and "pockets" but certainly one-way streets can make a big difference 12:56:24 <peter1138> drive-through are quicker 12:56:51 *** drac_boy has joined #openttd 12:56:53 <drac_boy> hi 12:57:21 <drac_boy> how woudl you correctly call a locomotive that was both diesel-electric and battery-electric modes altogether? (and well optionally yes the diesel does recharge battery on go) 12:57:52 *** Sova has quit IRC 12:58:23 <Samu> confirmed for yapf, also picks west 13:00:15 <Samu> and now, let me showcase the biggest reason why I made this patch 13:01:27 <Samu> http://imgur.com/qGgoZSt 13:01:29 <Samu> keks 13:01:39 <Samu> I did it 13:01:56 <Wolf01> drac_boy, hybrid? 13:02:46 *** sim-al2 has quit IRC 13:03:58 <drac_boy> wolf..hmm so in that case lets see if I perhaps get this right: diesel-electric = diesel to traction, diesel hybrid = diesel&battery multimode, electro-diesel = diesel or electric-pickup to traction multimode 13:04:21 <Samu> now with the other depot blocked, http://imgur.com/bic4fKg 13:04:23 <Wolf01> Do diesel traction engines exists? 13:04:33 <drac_boy> or you got nay other thoughts wolf? 13:05:32 <Wolf01> I always thought that after steam everything mounted electric engines with various power system... steam turbine, gas, diesel and catenary 13:06:52 * drac_boy bonks wolf with the thing called mechanical or hydrostatic/hydraulic :P 13:08:00 <Wolf01> Not for transporation, I see them more for caterpillars 13:08:22 <drac_boy> which country you from again btw? 13:08:39 <Wolf01> Banana's republic 13:08:53 <drac_boy> that would explain some of it 13:10:40 <drac_boy> but anyhow heres a relatively small/medium sized hydraulic as easily noted by the shafts inside the middle part of underbelly http://www.marub.ro/images/articole/locomotiva-diesel-hidraulica-1.jpg 13:11:35 * drac_boy doesn't see any immediate outline drawings for either the infamous german examples or the many "western" in england but wouldn't bother too much with the web now 13:16:59 <drac_boy> oh and wolf its still a rather minority niche but theres apparently still turbines .. russia started running thee in some trains as far as I recall news for it early last year (or late two years ago...not recalling) http://www.railjournal.com/media/k2/items/cache/9421db24f7b59a33518581167d545b9b_XL.jpg 13:17:30 <drac_boy> then again they got heavy freight through a lot of populationless place .. plus tons of their own internal fuel sources so .. I guess burning lng isn't too bad :) 13:17:53 <drac_boy> the first unit is basically a glorified lng tanker with cab added to it .. the real stuff is in the second unit heh 13:18:39 <Wolf01> Oh, so the DB class V200 is hydraulic, nice to know, TBH I don't really care about how an engine is moved, I' fine with the power source classification 13:20:58 <drac_boy> wolf well, just to add - there one thing that nearly all diesel-hydraulic have .. passive traction control .. diesel-electric have absolutely nothing unless you add very expensive sensory&throttle computers to every single separate axles 13:23:38 <Wolf01> BTW, without trying to get too much smartass on me (I'm don't know every single bit of rail info, just the general part, so it isn't needed to pick on me because I didn't know or just ignored some niche things), this might answer to your first question: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hybrid_train 13:24:12 <drac_boy> as for power source classification yeah that was one thing german did really well at (the UIC system is a bit stupid compared to it but no comment tho) ... 13:24:38 <drac_boy> :) 13:25:13 <drac_boy> some other countries did have a bit of their own simple classifications too (even if english translation could be a little colorful) 13:25:53 <drac_boy> like eg a tank locomotive would be lettered K for Kusy which in english translates to "chopped off" .. a colorful way to state its a tank not tender steam locomotive ;) 13:26:54 <supermop> yo 13:27:39 <Wolf01> o/ 13:27:46 * drac_boy grabs the big mop and make a big watery "mess" on the floor 13:27:51 <drac_boy> hows the silly mop? :P 13:27:59 <drac_boy> heh 13:28:08 <Wolf01> I'm going to make a watery mess on the shower instead 13:28:24 * drac_boy jabs the mop into wolf's feet then 13:28:56 <peter1138> i'm not sure i like the connotation of "mess" in quotes... 13:33:44 <supermop> its fairly rainy here 13:34:40 <Wolf01> Is fairly summer here 13:35:19 <Wolf01> Not sure what to wear :S 13:37:38 <Samu> i'm bored 13:37:55 <peter1138> https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/9a/eb/0f/9aeb0f69100520c0c78f8a8577248f04.jpg 13:37:58 <peter1138> seems suitable 13:38:10 <peter1138> Samu, try your patch with a real test case 13:38:22 <peter1138> there must be some large openttdcoop game with lots of ships, right? 13:38:35 <Samu> 1.7.0? 13:39:41 <Samu> there's only 1 openttdcoop game, it requires newgrf stuff, gah, i hate to have that folder filled with crap 13:39:51 <peter1138> what? 13:39:59 <peter1138> there's loads of openttdcoop savegames 13:40:20 <Samu> i was going online :( 13:40:30 <Samu> where are those savegames, must find 13:50:06 <Samu> nobody plays with breakdowns, damn it 13:50:57 <drac_boy> samu its called single-player game :) 13:54:21 <Samu> NewGRF presets don't work as I think 13:55:24 <Samu> instead of Delete preset, I wish for a Delete NewGRF 13:55:31 <Samu> from the system 13:55:39 <Samu> not from the list 13:57:25 <Samu> if i can delete savegames, why not delete newgrfs :( 13:57:56 <drac_boy> samu its called folder delete 13:58:12 <Samu> i want to keep some, not all 13:58:47 <Samu> the more newgrf games i join, the bigger that list becomes with stuff i don't even care 14:00:18 <Samu> and then the next time, the game listing mixes it up with all the newgrfs i have installed, i don't quite like this 14:00:55 <Samu> just because I have it, doesn't mean i want it sorted 14:02:18 *** Alberth has joined #openttd 14:02:18 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o Alberth 14:02:19 <Samu> why not sort vanilla games on top, newgrf games below 14:02:37 <Samu> at least they're not mixed up, would be easier to distinguish 14:03:05 <drac_boy> you do know how to read row icons don't you? 14:03:19 <drac_boy> theres already an icon for games that aren't vanilla 14:04:04 <Alberth> o/ 14:04:33 <Samu> that's not how it works 14:05:07 <Samu> vanilla and newgrfs are mixed together, unsorted 14:05:19 <Samu> if i already have the newgrfs that is 14:06:04 <drac_boy> samu yes it is .. icon = grf .. no icon = vanilla 14:06:08 <drac_boy> it never changes simple as it 14:06:24 <drac_boy> hi alberth? :) 14:06:46 <Samu> it shows a green icon if i have the newgrf... 14:07:20 <Samu> if i don't have the newgrf it shows yellow 14:07:58 <Samu> my problem is... when i have those newgrfs installed, it shows green, the game is listed without criteria if it's vanilla or newgrf 14:08:10 <Samu> that sucks 14:08:41 <peter1138> ... 14:08:43 <Samu> i have to check one by one 14:08:52 <Samu> to see if it's vanilla or not 14:11:11 <Samu> the easier way to filter newgrf games out is to delete the entire folder 14:11:22 <Samu> see them listed as yellow 14:11:38 <peter1138> if you have the newgrf, what's the problem? 14:12:03 <Wolf01> Oh, is tomorrow the 1.7.0 day? 14:12:19 <Samu> but it happens that I want to keep some newgrfs installed, but still a way to distinguish vanilla from those installed newgrfs 14:12:28 <Samu> bah, nobody understands me 14:12:31 <Samu> i give up 14:13:27 <Samu> i wouldn't like to delete the folder everytime I want to list vanilla games 14:14:05 <Wolf01> I came up with a 1.7.0 announce while showering 14:14:06 <peter1138> lol 14:14:19 <peter1138> customer called, reoslved his query 14:14:26 <peter1138> then he said "thank you for your call" 14:14:29 <peter1138> yeah no 14:14:34 <Wolf01> Lol 14:15:52 <drac_boy> and what was it wolf? :) 14:16:12 <Wolf01> I need to regroup the ideas and write it first 14:16:26 <peter1138> Wolf01, dunno, i imagine there may be some back porting. dunno though. 14:17:35 <Wolf01> I write it down anyway 14:22:06 <peter1138> :) 14:25:37 <Samu> is 1.7.0 coming with the cpu evaluator thingy? 14:25:48 <Samu> RIP GS's 14:25:55 <Samu> RIP AI's 14:29:12 *** mescalito has joined #openttd 14:29:39 * drac_boy is still waiting for two overdue updates too :-/ 14:33:43 <drac_boy> (if anyone's ever bothered, 1. platform support and 2. being able to use real signalling) 14:33:47 *** HerzogDeXtEr has joined #openttd 14:34:35 <Samu> just build separate stations adjacent to each other 14:35:52 <drac_boy> samu, and how does that even help #2 one bit at all other than for wasting much more land and still not being able to redirect trains anyway? 14:35:55 <drac_boy> just asking 14:36:43 <Samu> use one station just for a cargo 14:37:20 <Samu> a farm producing livestock and grain, build 2 stations adjacent to each other 14:37:32 <drac_boy> samu and how is that EVEN one bit relevant to #2 pls? 14:37:41 <Samu> train grain goes to one of the stations 14:37:48 <Samu> livestock goes to the other 14:38:29 <Samu> what is real signalling? 14:40:11 <drac_boy> divert trains by operation types aside to for example holding a red if certain conditions at other signals aren't met (even if the immediate route was still clear) 14:40:20 <drac_boy> dunno why you think thats got anything to do with stations tbh 14:45:26 <Samu> http://imgur.com/qfvPAjf 14:46:19 <Wolf01> Ok, I think I'm fine with my announce 14:47:08 <Wolf01> It might need some syntax checking btw 14:48:19 <Samu> if 2 grain trains are at the platforms and a 3rd grain train wants to go in, it won't, it stops at red sign 14:49:28 <Samu> if the 3rd train was livestock, it would proceed to its livestock station 14:49:45 <drac_boy> samu now pls explain this: how to make the signal at entry of factory stay red if there is not at least one goods train already inside? 14:50:12 <Samu> separate that then 14:50:31 <drac_boy> samu do I need to repeat? how to make the signal R-E-D 14:50:45 <Samu> 1 station where trains unload livestock and grain, the other where trains load grain 14:50:52 <Samu> then i dunno 14:51:04 <peter1138> drac_boy, without programmable signals... nope 14:51:40 <peter1138> just do it the easy way, separate platforms 14:52:36 <drac_boy> and how do you suggest trying to make timetable for goods trains to use 2+ platforms and not even knowing which one is empty? 14:52:56 <drac_boy> easier to do it at the signal level as ttdxp had for a rather long time by comparison 14:53:39 <peter1138> cool, play ttdp for now then :p 14:53:40 <Samu> oops load goods* 14:54:55 <peter1138> at least ttdp can't look as shit as openttd 14:55:37 <Samu> never played ttd patch 14:55:38 <drac_boy> and also as a bonus it lets you build uk-style stations for mixed bidirectional&deadend express services too :) 14:56:08 <Alberth> clearly, you're playing with the wrong program :) 14:56:09 <drac_boy> (because the through line has plain signal but the bay track has lengthrestrict signal :) ) 14:57:48 <peter1138> https://www.rcts.org.uk/cache/photographs/branches/thames%20valley/55034%20%20at%20Princes%20Risborough%20Princes%20Risborough%2027Sep16%20Stuart%20Hicks.780.jpg 14:58:03 <peter1138> ^ this lovely yummy modern train is what i see on my bike ride to work every day... 14:59:35 <Alberth> looks lovely indeed 15:00:39 <peter1138> hmm, built in 1960 15:01:16 <Samu> Alberth: is my patch good? 15:01:20 <drac_boy> wouldn't lay the stowaway track to the rightmost ingame but even then heres an example of the bay platform in reality still https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/564x/7c/40/e0/7c40e0ea9952b4d1fca868309371d4e6.jpg 15:01:22 <Alberth> it also looks aged, but still good :) 15:01:23 <Samu> depots for ships :p 15:01:38 <peter1138> ooh 300hp 15:01:54 <drac_boy> railcar or any short <3 car services can borrow the stubby platform for themself to avoid blocking the heavy express trains from going through nonstop 15:02:34 <peter1138> drac_boy, in ottd trains already try to choose an appropriately long platform 15:03:01 <drac_boy> well dunno about you but one single signal is all it takes to make any non-thru short train not block the main line :) 15:03:06 <Alberth> Samu: no idea, imho, pathfinding should become much faster first 15:03:48 <peter1138> yeah i suggested he test it with a bigger game than his tiny test case :p 15:04:16 <drac_boy> will admit that it should be possible for a train to leave deadend platform then reverse its direction mid-route but I think the game code is too complex to warrant doing such a thing so meh with it :p 15:04:41 <peter1138> admit? 15:04:51 <drac_boy> (at least as a semi-cheat a waypoint placed on deadend track sorta does a similar job) 15:04:52 <peter1138> not exactly an admission that 15:05:38 <peter1138> our pathfinders can't trace back over an existing path 15:06:18 <peter1138> a* doesn't know anything about unable to turn 15:10:17 <drac_boy> no? hm well dunno what to say about that as the train orders has no problem being instructed in this 3-orders manner: 1. go to City2 (and gets signal-redirected into the bay platform) 2. go via Waypoint (which is a deadend track making the train bounce into other direction) 3. go to city1 (which wasn't accessible from the bay platform route anyhow) 15:10:29 <peter1138> well obviously 15:10:44 <peter1138> the pathfinder goes to each destination in turn 15:11:03 <drac_boy> ah you were talking about without the waypoint? yeah I see your point there too sorry :) 15:12:45 <Samu> I'm not sure if its faster, my unreliable tests indicated that it's faster 15:12:54 <Samu> not scientifically measured 15:13:02 <Samu> only npf became slower 15:14:23 <Samu> unless i run it for 100 years in fast forward? :( 15:14:50 <Alberth> depots are rarely used, gaining some speed for a seldomly used feature doesn't help 15:15:27 <Samu> yeah ppl dont use breakdowns most of the time :| 15:16:06 <Alberth> even with breakdowns, it's seldomly used, compared with regular path-finding between harbours/buoys 15:17:19 <Samu> t.t i like the auto-service feature 15:17:59 <Alberth> sure, I use it too, as I play with breakdown enabled :) 15:19:29 <Alberth> but how often does a ship need service? almost never 15:19:39 <Samu> every 360 15:19:46 <Alberth> ok 15:19:47 <Samu> if default 15:20:08 <Alberth> I would prefer to have a speedup for the remaining 359 days instead 15:21:03 <Alberth> and not 10-20% faster, but 200-500% faster, preferably even more 15:25:37 <peter1138> Alberth, this isn't a speed up for servicing 15:25:53 <peter1138> Alberth, this is "don't try to go to unreachable depot" 15:26:30 <Alberth> fair enough 15:26:41 <Samu> it's both 15:27:20 <peter1138> this may improve performance and it may stop ships being unable to route and causing lag 15:27:29 <peter1138> s/and/as/ 15:40:13 *** Zuu has joined #openttd 15:40:18 <Alberth> hi hi 15:40:25 <Zuu> Hello 15:40:55 <drac_boy> anyway going to sort out lunch here 15:40:59 *** drac_boy has left #openttd 15:41:07 <Zuu> When I start a game with WAS (world airline set) in 1950, human player cannot construct airports, but my old PAXLink AI builds a small airport fine. :-) 15:41:21 <Alberth> haha :) 15:41:40 <Zuu> In the GUI the airport button is disabled. 15:42:06 <Alberth> it has secret ways in, built for it, by the devs of the game :p 15:42:17 <Zuu> :-) 15:43:18 <Zuu> CluelessPlus on the other hand finds no possible nodes to connect. Maybe it use an API that list zero available airports or something. 15:43:48 <Zuu> Instead of just trying with the constant ID that the small airpot have. :-) 15:43:53 <Alberth> yeah, stuff not properly connected or cross-checked 15:52:59 *** TheMask96 has quit IRC 15:53:18 <Wolf01> What bothers me most is that my friend in a coop play is able to run steam trains without cabeese 15:53:51 <peter1138> haha 15:54:09 <peter1138> apparently it's a bad feature 15:55:13 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd 15:55:16 <Alberth> o/ 15:55:23 <Wolf01> Oh, cat returned 15:55:31 <Wolf01> Mating season or what? 15:56:24 *** TheMask96 has joined #openttd 15:56:49 <andythenorth> hi 16:05:18 *** Gja has joined #openttd 16:14:57 <Samu> might have to edit a v5, i found a peculiar situation t.t 16:15:42 <Samu> if (sfdd.best_length == UINT_MAX || sfdd.best_length >= max_distance) 16:16:14 <Samu> i'm wondering if I should remove ' || sfdd.best_length >= max_distance' 16:16:25 <andythenorth> such 16:16:27 <andythenorth> but such what? 16:16:30 * andythenorth has been away 16:16:53 <Wolf01> We noticed it 16:17:30 <andythenorth> Wolf01: fancy merging trunk to NRT? 16:17:39 <andythenorth> there are conflicts... 16:17:43 <andythenorth> :| 16:17:44 <Wolf01> I noticed 16:18:56 <andythenorth> hmm, man 16:19:01 <andythenorth> * maybe 16:19:51 <andythenorth> maybe FIRS 16:24:10 *** Progman has joined #openttd 16:26:02 <Samu> nop, it's not this 16:29:53 <peter1138> how can there be conflicts when ottd is dead! 16:30:17 <andythenorth> oh 16:30:20 <andythenorth> I missed that :P 16:30:45 <andythenorth> sounds greatly exaggerated 16:36:58 <Zuu> Hmm was library variables scoped off for AIs/Scripts? 16:37:02 <Wolf01> https://img-9gag-fun.9cache.com/photo/aVqEMVw_460sv.mp4 conflicts 16:38:10 *** Urmel has quit IRC 16:38:18 <Zuu> In the past they shared the global scope with the host AI. But now a list that SuperLib store in global scope variable is retained, but the content is empty on the second call. 16:40:39 <Zuu> But it only occur with WAS. And it makes no sense.. 16:41:25 <andythenorth> hi Zuu 16:41:31 <Zuu> Hi andythenorth 16:42:03 <andythenorth> hmm FIRS bugs 16:42:13 <andythenorth> never fix themselves :P 16:43:52 <Zuu> Although before loosing the list, it is able to add item 0 twice to the list which should not be possible. A small dummy AI is not able to reproduce that. 16:48:09 *** glx has joined #openttd 16:48:09 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v glx 16:52:16 <Zuu> Hmm, no it is not. It is just me forgetting to write ", _" in foreach(item, _ list) 16:54:15 <Zuu> Oh.. and the truncated list is probably just by-ref :-) 16:57:37 <Samu> zuu, do you work on clueless plus? 16:58:18 <Samu> cpu evaluator kills many AIs, i think clueless plus and paxlink die when placing HQ 16:58:38 <Samu> choochoo dies 16:58:41 <Samu> mailai dies 16:59:34 <Samu> either terron or otvi dies, i forgot which 16:59:36 <Samu> i think its otvi 17:01:16 <Zuu> Samu: I looked into why it was not trying to build airports in the WAS test. But not really developing on it really. 17:05:54 <Zuu> It seem to be fixed by the SuperLib fix to always return copies of the internal cache instead of returning pointer to the cache. 17:06:56 <Zuu> It relates also to starting the game before there is any airplane available (and other modes disabled) and then continue into a time when aircrafts are available. 17:08:43 <Zuu> I have fixed the HQ problem of CluelessPlus locally. 17:09:54 <Zuu> Its recursive valuator usage that kills CluelessPlus which is easy to rewrite, but requires some time from the author. :-) 17:24:33 *** Zuu has quit IRC 17:24:49 *** Wormnest has joined #openttd 17:25:02 <Samu> nice, thx 17:25:24 <Samu> once 1.7.0 is released i may test some ais 17:32:37 *** Gja has quit IRC 18:18:30 *** Gja has joined #openttd 18:19:30 <Samu> i can improve Yapf a bit, gonna try avoid that go back and forth when trying to service at a nearby depot 18:20:31 <Samu> will make it, either go, or never go 18:21:28 <Samu> this is "kinda" how OPF is doing 18:21:37 <Samu> it doesn't get into a deadlock 18:22:05 <Samu> unless i haven't made it trigger it 18:22:23 <Samu> trigger yet* 18:25:06 *** mescalito has quit IRC 18:31:06 *** Ethereal_Whisper has joined #openttd 18:32:55 *** frosch123 has joined #openttd 18:34:44 <Wolf01> Quak 18:38:37 *** FLHerne has joined #openttd 18:39:30 <frosch123> moi 18:57:07 <andythenorth> lo frosch123 19:04:02 * andythenorth needs some FIRS station names 19:05:14 *** Stimrol has joined #openttd 19:09:48 <Samu> is this single line correct coding style? CYapfCostShipT() : m_max_cost(0) { } 19:10:08 <Samu> do I need { } ? 19:10:20 <Samu> do i put them in the next 2 lines? 19:10:57 <Samu> if it's single line is it {} or { } ? 19:12:01 <Samu> my copy paste skills can't deal with this 19:25:59 <peter1138> who knows! 19:26:24 <Wolf01> I would use ; instead of { } 19:27:45 *** Tharbakim has quit IRC 19:28:09 <Wolf01> Oh, I didn't understand what's written in that line, it seemed a ternary operator 19:30:53 *** Tharbakim has joined #openttd 19:31:13 <peter1138> heh 19:36:42 <glx> looks like an empty constructor 19:37:05 *** bwn has quit IRC 19:39:27 <Wolf01> Yeah, looking at it, it looks as a method definition for partial class 19:40:15 <Wolf01> Or a value object 19:41:42 <Wolf01> Also, andythenorth, how do you sync with trunk in your repo? I tried it to see where it conflicts but I can only sync between branches or my clone, while on my clone I see all the clones from github o_O 19:47:15 *** Extrems has quit IRC 19:48:28 <andythenorth> Wolf01: I added ottd trunk as a git remote to my repo 19:48:37 <andythenorth> it was a command line thing 19:48:41 <andythenorth> not hard though 19:49:27 <andythenorth> https://help.github.com/articles/adding-a-remote/ 19:50:05 <Wolf01> Oh that thing which doesn't work when you checkout with SVN from github 19:50:12 *** Extrems has joined #openttd 19:54:00 <peter1138> github does svn? 19:54:43 <Wolf01> You can checkout, yes 19:55:10 <Wolf01> But remotes don't seem to work, even if it should just create an external 19:55:56 *** Belugas has joined #openttd 19:55:56 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o Belugas 19:56:09 <Wolf01> :o 19:56:10 <Wolf01> Look who is here 19:56:11 <Wolf01> o/ 19:56:49 <Belugas> naaaa.... you had too much to drink ;) 19:56:56 <Belugas> delirium tremens! 19:58:34 <Wolf01> How is going? 19:59:47 *** bwn has joined #openttd 20:01:31 <peter1138> Belugas, Belugas Belugas Belugas <3 20:02:55 <Belugas> :D 20:02:56 <peter1138> speaking of drink 20:03:14 <Belugas> lol! I have a reputation ^^ 20:04:18 <andythenorth> is Belugas 20:06:41 *** bwn has quit IRC 20:07:54 <Belugas> I came just because there is someone is celebrating something thoday ^^ 20:08:25 <Wolf01> Like, your birthday? 20:08:52 *** Progman has quit IRC 20:11:32 *** Alberth has left #openttd 20:11:43 <Belugas> not mine ;) mine is in december. and at my age (now 52), that is not a date i want to celebrate lol!!!! 20:16:43 <V453000> birthday? 20:18:31 <Belugas> yeah, a birthday :) a good friend of mine! 20:20:17 <Samu> i just smartened Yapf 20:20:40 <Samu> there's a greater degree with yapf than with the others 20:20:49 <Samu> but it's much harder to understand 20:21:32 <Samu> ship will no longer go back and forth 20:22:05 <Samu> gpnna try do it for npf too, hopefully I can 20:24:30 <Samu> degree of customizability* 20:24:52 *** bwn has joined #openttd 20:30:47 *** Zuu has joined #openttd 20:38:49 *** mescalito has joined #openttd 20:49:52 *** sim-al2 has joined #openttd 20:56:00 *** Montana has joined #openttd 20:58:27 *** andythenorth has quit IRC 21:02:09 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd 21:02:48 <Wolf01> https://www.amazon.com/Million-Random-Digits-Normal-Deviates/dp/0833030477/ yeah 21:08:29 *** orudge` has quit IRC 21:09:16 *** orudge` has joined #openttd 21:09:17 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o orudge` 21:10:56 *** andythenorth has left #openttd 21:28:49 *** gelignite has joined #openttd 21:34:52 <__ln__> Wolf01: have you read it through? 21:35:32 <Wolf01> Yes I usually read some PI cyphers before sleeping 21:35:52 <Wolf01> BTW, the comments are funny 21:36:34 <Samu> i can improve npf code a little bit 21:36:37 <Samu> yay 21:37:32 <peter1138> pom te pom 21:37:34 <Wolf01> He looks like my chatbot... quiet for hours, when you start talking it starts too with another random argument 21:39:55 <__ln__> i read a whole 10 lines of those random digits, and i found a pattern. 21:41:24 <Wolf01> I found a pattern too, writing prime numbers in a square 21:41:31 <Wolf01> At school, while bored 21:43:12 <Wolf01> I found it years later while watching numberphile on youtube... 21:46:30 <peter1138> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ChgvPTVpbzs 21:47:15 <Wolf01> It's.... wonderful 21:57:03 <Wolf01> Heh, I'm now trapped in a loop of their videos 22:03:32 <peter1138> heh 22:04:53 <__ln__> which king's singers?! 22:05:02 <__ln__> it's an old video but not that old 22:05:19 <Wolf01> All of them, old, new ones 22:06:49 *** frosch123 has quit IRC 22:10:13 <Samu> _npf_aystar.max_path_cost = 0; 22:11:23 <Samu> this needs to be changed to _npf_aystar.max_path_cost = _settings_game.pf.npf.maximum_go_to_depot_penalty in the case of depot searching 22:11:49 <Samu> how do I do this, must think 22:12:47 <Samu> it's not even done for trains or road vehicles either 22:13:27 *** Wormnest_ has joined #openttd 22:13:51 <Samu> why didn't u do it? 22:14:59 <Samu> you have npf searching depots for road vehicles and trains, you have a game setting about max depot penalty for npf, but then it's not implemented :( 22:15:13 <Wolf01> To confuse you 22:15:33 <Samu> in essence, that setting does nothing, no matter what u set in there 22:16:06 <Wolf01> We should really remove NPF 22:16:14 <peter1138> And OPF 22:16:24 <peter1138> i would but i'm watching numberphile now 22:16:45 <Wolf01> :D 22:18:45 <Zuu> Fixed SuperLib pathfinder not timing out (patch by yorg), then fixed that it was returning "not found" status code instead of "timeout" when it does timeout. 3rd: fixed that it was using up PF loops too fast. :-) 22:19:23 <Zuu> Now CluelessPlus can again use the road bulider. :-) 22:19:54 *** Wormnest has quit IRC 22:33:28 <__ln__> a Zuu since a very long time 22:33:44 <Zuu> (-: 22:33:58 <Wolf01> Just broke my neck 22:34:11 <Zuu> It is actually not that long since I was here last. A month or too. 22:34:20 <Zuu> But before that, yes indeed. 22:34:53 <peter1138> wut 22:38:55 <peter1138> damn, you look at patches 22:39:03 <peter1138> and they do some weird things :S 22:39:28 <Wolf01> Did you trip in the ottd dev forum? 22:41:33 <peter1138> heh 22:41:45 <peter1138> apparently i've collecting my own patches again too 22:43:39 <peter1138> jgr's patch has "minimap-screenshot-rect" and "smallmap-screenshot" 22:44:34 <Wolf01> I think I'll do bed stuff now, like reading a book and sleeping over it... before falling on numberphile again 22:44:51 <Wolf01> See you later... 'night 22:44:58 *** Wolf01 has quit IRC 22:56:56 *** sla_ro|master has quit IRC 22:57:35 *** gelignite has quit IRC 23:02:40 <peter1138> brup 23:07:21 *** DDR has quit IRC 23:08:07 *** Wormnest_ has quit IRC 23:09:58 <DorpsGek> Commit by peter1138 :: r27838 trunk/src/news_gui.cpp (2017-04-01 01:09:50 +0200 ) 23:09:59 <DorpsGek> -Fix: Small news window's fake caption (r19943) was not sized to fit its text. 23:18:25 <peter1138> town rating in town label patch is weird 23:18:52 <peter1138> makes the population_in_label setting not work right 23:20:50 <peter1138> oh god that syntax 23:26:55 *** HerzogDeXtEr1 has joined #openttd 23:32:49 *** HerzogDeXtEr has quit IRC 23:36:53 <Samu> woah, i went further back to r1751 and npf always had used _npf_aystar.max_path_cost = 0; 23:37:03 <Samu> npf was born in r1751 23:37:13 <Samu> nobody ever implemented it :( 23:38:43 *** Stimrol has quit IRC 23:38:59 *** orudge` has quit IRC 23:39:07 *** orudge` has joined #openttd 23:39:07 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o orudge` 23:40:26 *** btfo has quit IRC 23:49:52 *** Gja has quit IRC 23:55:47 *** btfo has joined #openttd 23:56:17 *** btfo is now known as Guest198