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Log for #openttd on 4th July 2018:
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09:31:28  <andythenorth> soviet trains are the best http://railpictures.net/photo/663059/
09:31:32  <andythenorth> 'russian bias' :D
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09:36:22  <Eddi|zuHause> i'm not sure i see the same thing as you are
09:38:32  <andythenorth> is that an aesthetic thing, or because you grew up in a former soviet satellite state? o_O
09:39:59  <Eddi|zuHause> i'm more leaning towards "aesthetic thing" right now
09:41:34  <Eddi|zuHause> i mean, the soviet-built locomotives we have here look nothing like that anyway
09:48:57  <__ln__> i.e. they have the portrait of honecker instead of stalin in the front?
09:49:28  <andythenorth> I can't decided if the Stalin portrait is bad taste or not
09:59:26  <Eddi|zuHause> __ln__: i don't think that ever happened
10:01:12  <Eddi|zuHause> __ln__: putting pictures on engines wasn't really a thing anyway, but it would more likely have been pictures of Karl Marx or Wilhelm Pieck or Ernst Thälmann
10:07:24  <Eddi|zuHause> "England wins in penalty shoots" have we drifted into an alternate universe somehow?
10:09:13  <andythenorth> it is odd
10:09:30  <andythenorth> if peter1138 commits NRT, then definitely, alternate universe
10:15:44  <Eddi|zuHause> i would never notice that, because we have no bot anymore that announces commits
10:24:02  <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: nothing has been committed since the 6th of April, right?
10:24:13  <andythenorth> nothing
10:24:17  <andythenorth> at least not to svn
10:25:38  <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: correct. the project is therefore dead.
10:27:31  <andythenorth> it's been dying for years
10:27:37  <andythenorth> had to happen in the end
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11:08:12  <planetmaker> entropy won
11:14:07  <peter1138> :)
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15:15:33  <Alberth> o/
15:15:50  <andythenorth> hi
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15:54:17  <andythenorth> newgrf trees? o_O https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/6848
15:54:56  <planetmaker> not really
15:55:02  <andythenorth> no but we should
15:55:17  <planetmaker> different tree placement algorithm. Haven't looked ingame. But sounds good
15:55:18  <andythenorth> allegedly it would reduce savegame size a lot
15:55:34  <andythenorth> (newgrf trees)
15:55:38  <planetmaker> how that?
15:56:33  <andythenorth> reduce tree state storage in tiles
15:56:36  <andythenorth> move it to action 2 / cb
15:57:22  <Eddi|zuHause> proper newgrf trees would need like callbacks about growth patterns and animation states and stuff, it'd grow out of scale and grind every game to a halt for the sheer number of them being on any given map
15:58:06  <planetmaker> I fear so, too ^^
15:58:22  <planetmaker> though houses and vehicles... are not necessarily less on the map ;)
15:58:35  <Eddi|zuHause> oh yes definitely fewer
15:59:02  <Alberth> add realistic growth, 1 call / year
15:59:19  <andythenorth> they're processed in a periodic loop anyway no?
15:59:26  <andythenorth> game doesn't call all tiles all the time
15:59:28  <Eddi|zuHause> i remember early versions of ECS vectors, where a) map generation took ages, and b) starting on an empty map of any reasonable size was already slow beyond playability
15:59:46  <andythenorth> I don't see the issue, trees have to run code anyway
16:00:11  <andythenorth> I think savegame loading would take longer
16:00:12  <Alberth> newgrf is interpreted rather than native machine code
16:01:21  <planetmaker> new requirement: JIT for NewGRFs :P
16:01:22  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: the problem is almost never the amount of code that is run, but rather like switching context between regular game code and newgrf code and back
16:02:16  <Eddi|zuHause> this kind of switching is many orders of magnitude slower than any piece of code you could run
16:03:25  <andythenorth> ok
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16:22:59  <peter1138> knowing me, knowing you
16:23:45  <peter1138> 16:59 < andythenorth> they're processed in a periodic loop anyway no?
16:23:58  <peter1138> yeah, not if you removed tree state storage in tiles...
16:24:44  <peter1138> Eddi|zuHause, there is no context switching o_O
16:24:58  <Eddi|zuHause> peter1138: it was a bit oversimplification
16:25:02  <peter1138> It's not like there's a separate process :p
16:25:38  <Eddi|zuHause> peter1138: but it's almost definitely provoking cache misses in places where that's unlikely currently
16:26:17  <Eddi|zuHause> and accessing RAM is still like factor 1000 slower than L1 cache
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16:58:05  <peter1138> cache misses will happen lots anyway
16:58:13  <peter1138> that's far quicker than a context switch
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17:04:21  <andythenorth> so newgrf trees then
17:04:24  <andythenorth> it's all fine
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17:04:44  <andythenorth> imagine the drama about labels and stuff
17:04:52  <andythenorth> such lulz :P
17:05:33  <andythenorth> tree table
17:05:44  <andythenorth> tree classes
17:06:23  <andythenorth> different trunk thickness
17:06:37  <andythenorth> variable for deciduous or coniferous
17:06:43  <andythenorth> oops, that's probably a prop not a var
17:06:53  <andythenorth> silly andythenorth
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17:07:49  <nielsm> ecological effects, these magical trees suck out all energy from the ground preventing any other trees, or farming industries, from growing nearby
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17:12:15  <Wolf01> o/
17:12:30  <__ln__> \o
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17:12:43  <Wolf01> So, it's 115% air humidity
17:13:32  <__ln__> sounds wet
17:15:24  <Alberth> or just 15% above normal :p
17:15:46  <Wolf01> Nah, normal il 60%
17:15:49  <Wolf01> *is
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17:19:57  <andythenorth> tbh
17:20:03  <andythenorth> if we don't do newgrf trees
17:20:07  <andythenorth> I think OpenTTD is dead
17:20:23  <Wolf01> WTF merge NRT and look if it's dead
17:21:02  <andythenorth> NRT = nail in coffin? :D
17:21:45  <Wolf01> We should flood the game with features nobody uses and see :D
17:22:00  <peter1138> I'd look at it
17:22:05  <peter1138> But I'm about to go out MTBing
17:23:04  <andythenorth> put a tablet on your bars
17:23:13  <andythenorth> code review + biking
17:23:19  <andythenorth> double plusgood
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17:27:09  <supermop> i want rich tree biome simulation in openttd
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17:41:19  <andythenorth> newgrf trees could grow tumbleweed
17:41:27  <andythenorth> also cows
17:42:04  <andythenorth> what if newgrf 'trees' were 256 pre-defined states? o_O
17:43:04  <Alberth> ie just an animation?
17:43:11  <Alberth> slow one, perhaps
17:45:53  <andythenorth> pretty much
17:51:16  <Wolf01> Just set if the animation must loop or when it stops the object goes away
17:51:47  <andythenorth> periodic processing chooses a frame at random
17:51:54  <andythenorth> it's basically awful
17:51:59  <andythenorth> terrible idea
17:52:09  <Wolf01> You should feel bad
17:52:12  <andythenorth> I don't
17:52:16  <andythenorth> but I feel bad that I don't
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18:41:54  <V453000> evening gentlemen :)
18:42:55  <LordAro> omg
18:43:43  <Alberth> hi hi V and Lord
18:46:58  <andythenorth> noooooooo
18:47:00  <andythenorth> it's V453000
18:48:39  <Wolf01> o/
18:48:59  <V453000> yo :)
18:49:04  <V453000> Alberth: yeah it's pretty dead :P
18:49:20  <Alberth> :o
18:50:13  <Alberth> how is? you're still alive and well?
18:52:20  <V453000> I am, but I don't see continuing on BRIX anytime soon. :D
18:52:36  <V453000> if I do anything, then the train set, but even that probably next year at soonest
18:52:37  <V453000> :d
18:52:56  <Alberth> tooo busy living :)
18:57:35  <LordAro> novel idea
19:01:36  <andythenorth> V453000: work 27 hours / day
19:01:40  <andythenorth> 19 days / week
19:01:42  <andythenorth> simples
19:07:18  * andythenorth -> tanks
19:07:30  <Wolf01> Me too
19:10:06  <andythenorth> I am drawing about 4 Iron Horse trains every day
19:10:19  <andythenorth> there are only 100 left to go eh :P
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21:10:04  <planetmaker> if it's newgrf trees, then better go the whole way, make trees a property of the tile - and make newgrf ground tiles
21:10:25  <Eddi|zuHause> how does that help anything?
21:10:52  <planetmaker> it doesn't help trees. But it helps overall in having a less boring landscape
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21:56:22  <Wolf01> 'night
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22:03:21  <planetmaker> g'night
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22:50:30  <argoneus> hi V453000
22:50:42  <argoneus> also good evening train friends
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