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o_O 09:05:11 <Eddi|zuHause> sure, how fast you want it to be done? 09:05:50 <Eddi|zuHause> it's just a compiler. compilers are a solved problem. 09:06:33 <Eddi|zuHause> my compiler construction professor always said this lecture should be called "history of computer science", because all this stuff was basically done in the 70s 09:07:56 <andythenorth> how many nml users are there? 09:08:09 * andythenorth wonders where the utility is in spending time on a rewrite 09:08:14 <andythenorth> is it just me using it? 09:08:31 *** Samu has joined #openttd 09:08:50 <Eddi|zuHause> total users, active users, future users, concurrent users? 09:09:05 <andythenorth> yes 09:09:47 <Eddi|zuHause> plenty, fewer, dunno, meh? 09:11:18 <andythenorth> I could design around it 09:11:37 <andythenorth> splitting grfs up seems quite plausible 09:11:58 <Eddi|zuHause> for whatever design you can come up with, you'll probably be the only user, ever 09:12:12 <andythenorth> well that simplifies design :) 09:12:25 <andythenorth> Iron Horse Pont Engines 09:12:27 <andythenorth> Pony * 09:12:31 <andythenorth> Iron Horse Pony Wagons 09:12:35 <andythenorth> Iron Horse Pony Coaches 09:12:37 <andythenorth> etc 09:12:43 <andythenorth> all individual grfs 09:12:50 <Eddi|zuHause> that makes literally no sense 09:15:33 *** Samu has quit IRC 09:15:42 <andythenorth> will be substantially faster 09:16:04 <andythenorth> and the work to do it will balance very well against the time saved 09:16:08 <andythenorth> so it's logical conclusion? 09:17:39 * andythenorth wonders about the user experience 09:29:51 *** blackli0nxx has joined #openttd 09:37:18 *** Etua has joined #openttd 09:49:39 <Eddi|zuHause> user experience will be horrible and your maintenance costs will skyrocket 09:54:48 <andythenorth> why does my code get shorter as I handle more cases, more generically? :P 09:55:14 <andythenorth> long if-else blocks -> loops 09:55:20 <andythenorth> long blocks of declarations -> loops 09:56:06 * andythenorth knows why this is :P 09:56:19 <andythenorth> just procrastinating from a fiddly problem 10:03:34 *** Etua has quit IRC 10:03:55 *** Etua has joined #openttd 10:37:24 *** Etua has quit IRC 10:37:43 *** Etua has joined #openttd 10:40:22 *** Etua has quit IRC 10:40:42 *** Etua has joined #openttd 10:42:17 *** Etua has quit IRC 10:42:37 *** Etua has joined #openttd 11:00:26 *** Samu has joined #openttd 11:00:37 <Samu> hi 11:05:06 *** Etua has quit IRC 11:17:24 *** Etua has joined #openttd 11:40:09 *** Etua has quit IRC 11:48:12 *** Nat has joined #openttd 11:54:40 <Nat> hey 11:59:20 <Eddi|zuHause> so, how's that procrastinating working out for you? 12:05:48 <Samu> damn bugs 12:06:26 <Samu> I actually posted a fix for this one but nobody cares 12:08:27 <Samu> it's stale 12:09:34 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: fixed all the intermodal container rendering 12:09:43 <andythenorth> and all the rules for which cargo shows which container 12:09:45 <andythenorth> with randomisation 12:09:46 <Samu> https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/7486 - still present in 1.9.3 12:09:50 <andythenorth> and class based fallback 12:09:57 <andythenorth> just need to draw the containers now :P 12:10:25 <Samu> I loaded a save, and now my vehicles are using full load orders, because it rerandomized some parameters on load 12:10:39 <Samu> shouldn't be using full load setting 12:10:52 <andythenorth> the final loop for was only 30 LOC, of which 10 LOC are whitespace or comments :P 12:11:27 <andythenorth> discovering what the rules needed to be was like 1 day of thinking, and progressively deleting special cases 12:12:09 *** andythenorth has quit IRC 12:13:26 *** Etua has joined #openttd 12:14:37 <Samu> it's still ultimately, a 'start_date' issue PR 12:14:44 <Samu> so, uhm... 12:14:58 <Samu> is that why nobody did anything about it? 12:16:09 <Samu> i really wish I had my computer 12:16:37 <LordAro> people are busy, and ultimately the problem is not that interedting 12:17:00 <LordAro> interesting* 12:18:54 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd 12:27:02 *** Nat has quit IRC 12:34:16 *** Nat has joined #openttd 13:00:44 <Eddi|zuHause> so, i got this passenger train, which is barely reaching top speed on flat routes, and struggles uphill... options are a) double head it, b) electrify it, or c) ignore it, because it'll run against a red signal from a freight train anyway, and there's no scheduling 13:03:13 <andythenorth> but if (c), does it accelerate slowly? 13:03:28 <andythenorth> recovery time from checks is important w.r.t flow 13:04:06 <Eddi|zuHause> i'll try a) first, i think 13:04:30 <Eddi|zuHause> there should be a shunting option where i add a second engine uphill 13:04:32 <andythenorth> are you contended for train length? 13:04:42 <andythenorth> (a) is best if not contended, lower capital cost 13:04:45 <Eddi|zuHause> i have some room spare for length 13:04:49 * andythenorth has no idea how TF works 13:05:15 <Eddi|zuHause> well, you can make trains as long as you want, and it gives you options for platform length 13:05:24 <Eddi|zuHause> ... which you can increase with mods 13:07:30 <Eddi|zuHause> in my current game i'm using 400m as my baseline platform length, and this train is about 300m long 13:09:09 <Eddi|zuHause> tbh, electrifying is ridiculously cheap in this game, and would be probably the best choice from raw gameplay perspective 13:09:48 <Eddi|zuHause> but lack of shunting also would mean electrifying most of the network at once 13:11:34 *** firewire1394 has joined #openttd 13:12:23 *** cHawk has joined #openttd 14:00:38 *** firewire1394 has quit IRC 14:13:44 *** Nat has left #openttd 14:22:07 *** Wormnest_ has joined #openttd 14:22:26 *** firewire1394 has joined #openttd 14:27:51 *** Samu has quit IRC 14:46:41 *** firewire1394 has quit IRC 14:47:18 *** Samu has joined #openttd 14:57:04 *** Flygon has quit IRC 14:59:29 *** HerzogDeXtEr has joined #openttd 15:10:07 <Samu> road vehicles should slow down to breakdown, like trains do 15:13:16 <Samu> ships could perhaps have a breakdown-mix between that of a road vehicle and that of an aircraft 15:13:42 <Samu> moves at reduced speed during breakdown, and lasts only a few seconds 15:14:07 <Samu> while emiting smoke or so 15:15:51 <nielsm> https://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=39518 15:17:12 <Eddi|zuHause> a ship of any decent size doesn't really slow down if it "breaks" 15:17:38 <nielsm> at least it takes a long while for it to 15:18:33 * peter1138 mumbles about flight dynamics of Elite Dangerous... 15:19:30 <Eddi|zuHause> there's preservation of momentum, and ships have excessive amounts of momentum 15:20:32 <Eddi|zuHause> so if anything, a broken down ship would become uncontrollable and ram something in its path 15:21:40 <peter1138> Make a PR ;) 15:22:20 <Eddi|zuHause> add to the other bunch of PRs that, realistically, i'm never going to finish? :p 15:22:46 <andythenorth> :P 15:22:56 <andythenorth> do I need lunch? 15:23:25 <Eddi|zuHause> i've built this sloped route, and have no clue where to put the station into the mountain 15:25:05 * andythenorth awaits Eddi|zuHause twitch stream 15:25:23 <Eddi|zuHause> ... if anyone wants to watch me play games at 3-7fps? 15:25:46 <nielsm> :D 15:25:49 <Eddi|zuHause> (not accounting for additional load of compressing videos) 15:26:04 <Eddi|zuHause> also, gtg 15:26:09 <Eddi|zuHause> away for the weekend 15:30:41 *** Etua has quit IRC 15:37:27 *** firewire1394 has joined #openttd 15:52:48 *** Progman has joined #openttd 16:41:39 *** frosch123 has joined #openttd 16:42:30 *** WormnestAndroid has quit IRC 16:44:08 *** WormnestAndroid has joined #openttd 16:44:30 *** Wormnest_ has quit IRC 16:48:01 *** Wormnest has joined #openttd 16:56:14 *** WormnestAndroid has quit IRC 16:56:54 *** WormnestAndroid has joined #openttd 17:00:16 <Samu> wishlist for openttd 2 17:00:41 <Samu> a new vehicle type 17:01:15 <Samu> some kind of vehicle that walks underground 17:01:28 <andythenorth> worms! 17:01:34 <andythenorth> moles! 17:01:41 <Samu> submerges water and land 17:02:09 <Samu> elevators 17:02:17 <Samu> lel 17:02:57 <Samu> makes the xyz coordinates relevant 17:03:36 <Samu> instead of a X or Y tunnel, it can also walk in Z tunnels 17:05:07 <Samu> maybe call it submarine if it walks on water 17:05:13 <Samu> elevators and submarines :p 17:05:47 *** firewire1394 has quit IRC 17:06:20 <Samu> negative levels for water 17:07:02 <Samu> negative heights, they can move ultra fast, kinda like aircraft speed 17:07:19 <Samu> they submerge at the speed an aircraft lift offs 17:08:33 <Samu> they "land" at subports 17:08:42 <Samu> or aquaports 17:08:44 <Samu> or so 17:09:01 <Samu> waterport :p 17:10:30 <Samu> there may be a hybrid engine that can be a submarine and elevator at the same time, walks on both terrains 17:12:01 <Samu> subport seems like the correct name 17:12:15 <Samu> fits both vehicle types 17:14:28 *** Wormnest has quit IRC 17:14:49 *** Wormnest has joined #openttd 17:17:09 <Samu> generally, hybrid vehicles move faster under water, aircraft speed kind of speed, and move slower under ground, truck speed levels 17:29:32 *** spnda has joined #openttd 17:36:12 <Samu> how to make a z-tunnel 17:37:07 <Samu> hmm 17:38:05 <Samu> x and y tunnels would be pretty much water tunnels, i've heard ppl tried water tunnels for ships somewhere 17:39:10 <Samu> the difference would be that the entrance would be in a negative-height coordinate 17:39:31 <Samu> inside the water 17:41:07 <Samu> at least graphic-wise, then they move up to height 0, already hidden from view 17:42:20 <Samu> and the tunnel then goes to either direction from there: x, y or z, maybe zx and zy too for climbing terrain underground 17:43:02 <Samu> hum, no enthusiasm around here 17:45:19 <nielsm> would require the big landscape rewrite to be RCT-like instead of a flat map 17:46:08 <nielsm> I think 17:48:18 <Samu> just having fun thinking 17:49:39 *** firewire1394 has joined #openttd 17:50:27 <Samu> walking above the ground you say? 17:50:43 <Samu> i wasn't thinking of that 17:50:56 <Samu> it's all under the ground or under water 17:51:27 <Samu> the ground is the limit 18:05:22 *** Wolf01 has joined #openttd 18:05:56 <Wolf01> Tamping 18:10:40 *** Wormnest has quit IRC 18:22:50 *** Wormnest has joined #openttd 18:58:08 *** glx has joined #openttd 18:58:08 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v glx 19:05:17 *** Etua has joined #openttd 19:21:00 <nielsm> the servers listing webpage, what's the criterium for which version gets listed first? just which one has the most servers? 19:22:27 <frosch123> i would expect it to use http://finger.openttd.org/versions.txt 19:22:51 <frosch123> so yeah, looks like that has not been mirgrated to git :) 19:22:59 <nielsm> it's listing 1.9.2 servers first atm, and then everything else after a break 19:23:32 <frosch123> ok, let's look at the source :p 19:23:51 <glx> it's still using old architecture too 19:26:29 <frosch123> oh, it's hand coded into the website .. 19:26:32 <glx> easy to spot for me, it's using the openttd logo with ipv6 mark 19:26:37 <frosch123> i did not know this needs manual mainteneance 19:26:58 <frosch123> i wonder who updated it the past years then 19:27:30 <frosch123> ah, no, it was automated in the past 19:27:50 <frosch123> someone (likely tb) inserted the hard coded number when disabling part of the old infrastructure 19:27:51 <frosch123> ls 19:28:36 <frosch123> ok, updated it 19:28:44 <frosch123> let's see whether django autoreload works 19:28:48 <frosch123> or whether i need to kick something 19:34:14 <nielsm> hm guess I'll try to reproduce this... https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/issues/7438#issuecomment-508498478 19:34:29 <nielsm> start 1.9.3 with dmusic driver on softsynth and leave it playing all night (speakers off) 19:34:34 <nielsm> see how well it works in the morning 19:39:59 *** Wormnest has quit IRC 19:40:21 *** supermop_pdx has joined #openttd 19:46:06 <supermop_pdx> yo 19:46:58 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh commented on pull request #7639: Fix: Total reset of DMusic driver once every hour https://git.io/JeZCP 19:47:42 <frosch123> nielsm: 1.9.3 is now at the top 19:47:54 <frosch123> i had to kick something 19:48:02 <nielsm> nice 19:48:15 *** WormnestAndroid has quit IRC 19:48:49 <nielsm> anyway, I'm out, gn 19:48:53 <nielsm> hope to close that PR tomorrow 19:49:29 <supermop_pdx> yo andythenorth 19:49:38 <andythenorth> yo 19:55:24 *** WormnestAndroid has joined #openttd 19:55:33 *** Etua has quit IRC 20:38:36 *** supermop_pdx has quit IRC 20:43:43 <andythenorth> oops 20:43:51 <andythenorth> Unable to allocate ID for [random]switch, sprite set/layout/group or produce-block. Try reducing the number of such blocks. 20:48:52 <andythenorth> what did I do? :P 20:49:49 <andythenorth> https://paste.openttdcoop.org/pqb6egrmw/m3vk7v/raw 20:50:31 <Samu> you reached some limit? 20:51:14 <peter1138> Disturbs you very much? 20:52:07 <andythenorth> greatly 20:52:15 <andythenorth> goes it throw out? 20:53:47 <Samu> the ppl here say I listen to terrifying music :( 20:54:20 <andythenorth> it's not that many random switches :P https://paste.openttdcoop.org/prycxpydp/f2rk7s/raw 20:55:39 <milek7> it happens with C too ;P 20:55:46 <milek7> fatal error C1061: compiler limit: blocks nested too deeply 20:56:19 <frosch123> andythenorth: reorder your switching 20:56:52 <frosch123> put switching referencing each other closer together 20:57:22 <andythenorth> am I out of varaction 2 ids? :P 20:57:40 <frosch123> order them depth-first, not breadth-first 20:58:16 <Samu> 11 views since 2014... I really must have weird taste in music 20:59:00 <frosch123> nmlc info: Concurrent spritegroups: 241/256 ("generated/iron-horse.nml", line 59783) <- at line 59783 you have 241 switches which were defined before line 59783 and which are referenced after lint 59783 20:59:37 <frosch123> move them closer together, so you do not need to reference a switch from ages ago 20:59:48 <andythenorth> thx 20:59:55 * andythenorth frowns at template loops 21:00:14 <frosch123> looking at the generated source 21:00:25 <frosch123> you probably define all spritegroups first, and then all switches 21:00:29 <andythenorth> yes 21:00:31 <frosch123> make them instead alternate 21:00:38 <frosch123> interlave spritesets and spritegroups 21:00:44 <andythenorth> the spritegroups are shared globally, not per vehicle 21:00:48 <andythenorth> due to compile time 21:01:00 <andythenorth> but the switches are per vehicle 21:01:47 <glx> ignore compile time if you can't compile at all ;) 21:02:02 <frosch123> so, all vehicles have the same graphics? 21:02:18 <andythenorth> it's a layer showing containers 21:02:23 <andythenorth> containers all same for all vehicles 21:02:30 <andythenorth> (except length) 21:02:49 <frosch123> why do you have those switches for each vehicle then? shouldn't they also be global 21:03:02 <andythenorth> possibly yes 21:03:13 <andythenorth> I might have been confused about random triggers 21:03:15 <frosch123> and shouldn't there only be one global switch "containers" in the end? 21:03:41 <andythenorth> I need the random trigger on new load 21:03:49 <andythenorth> does that work with a global switch? 21:04:03 <frosch123> why wouldn't it? 21:04:08 <Samu> WormnestAndroid: what kind of map size do you run your AI tests? 21:04:54 <Samu> I can't reproduce WormAI outperforming other AIs... ever 21:05:00 <andythenorth> ok thanks, I'll refactor 21:06:55 <Samu> "ever" is a strong statement, but I'm retrying your AIs on that screenshots 21:07:06 <Samu> WormAI oscillates 4th and 5th in profits 21:08:09 <andythenorth> hmm 21:10:33 <andythenorth> am I just checking too many cargos? :) https://paste.openttdcoop.org/pghvobgew/7ibp3e/raw 21:11:04 <andythenorth> a lot of these random switches only have one entry :P 21:11:30 <frosch123> yes, and you need to put the switch that is referenced by that entry directly before it 21:12:31 <frosch123> switch/spritegroup/spriteset, whatever is referenced there 21:13:06 <frosch123> or you could teach nml to reorder them when they are not separated by "if" or similar 21:13:23 <frosch123> but that's probably complicated :p 21:14:54 <andythenorth> oof :) 21:16:18 <Samu> well, i didn't start in 1980, maybe that's why 21:16:45 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] abmyii opened pull request #7752: Prevent sounds being produced by inactive industries https://git.io/JeZlF 21:44:09 *** WormnestAndroid has quit IRC 21:44:38 *** WormnestAndroid has joined #openttd 21:46:15 <Samu> preferred max distance 2921, is that manhattan? that's absurdly too high 21:46:35 <Samu> there's breakdowns enabled 21:47:09 <Samu> WormnestAndroid: 21:47:58 *** Samu has quit IRC 21:48:06 <andythenorth> hmm that might have worked 21:49:46 <andythenorth> Concurrent spritegroups: 155/256 21:54:39 <andythenorth> thanks 21:56:07 <frosch123> magic :p 22:09:51 * andythenorth sleep time 22:09:53 *** andythenorth has quit IRC 22:10:26 *** frosch123 has quit IRC 22:14:51 *** Compu has joined #openttd 22:15:44 *** WormnestAndroid has quit IRC 22:15:57 *** WormnestAndroid has joined #openttd 22:23:59 *** WormnestAndroid has quit IRC 22:24:07 *** WormnestAndroid has joined #openttd 22:24:33 *** spnda has quit IRC 22:28:54 *** Wolf01 has quit IRC 22:31:15 *** Progman has quit IRC 22:42:34 *** WormnestAndroid has quit IRC 22:43:36 *** WormnestAndroid has joined #openttd 23:19:01 *** firewire1394 has quit IRC 23:20:19 *** WormnestAndroid has quit IRC 23:24:52 *** blackli0nxx_ has joined #openttd 23:26:17 *** blackli0nxx_ has quit IRC 23:27:10 *** blackli0nxx_ has joined #openttd 23:32:02 *** blackli0nxx has quit IRC 23:50:22 *** Thedarkb-X40 has joined #openttd