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00:05:43 *** urdh has quit IRC 00:11:43 *** hythlodaeus has joined #openttd 00:13:09 *** urdh has joined #openttd 00:25:50 *** supermop_Home has joined #openttd 00:26:02 <supermop_Home> peter1138 you have a server going? 00:45:48 *** Wormnest has quit IRC 01:11:16 *** OsteHovel has quit IRC 01:19:22 *** Wormnest has joined #openttd 01:44:11 *** Laedek has quit IRC 01:44:39 *** hythlodaeus has quit IRC 01:47:41 *** Laedek has joined #openttd 01:49:54 *** Pikka has joined #openttd 01:53:33 *** tokai|noir has joined #openttd 01:53:33 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai|noir 02:00:23 *** tokai has quit IRC 03:03:27 *** Pikka has quit IRC 03:12:22 *** D-HUND has joined #openttd 03:15:47 *** debdog has quit IRC 03:25:19 *** glx has quit IRC 03:58:32 *** OsteHovel has joined #openttd 03:58:43 *** Wormnest has quit IRC 04:10:15 *** zvxb has joined #openttd 04:32:44 *** Pikka has joined #openttd 04:33:01 <Pikka> yowsa 04:33:07 <Pikka> such windows 10 04:33:28 *** Pikka has quit IRC 04:44:34 *** Pikka has joined #openttd 06:31:33 *** Wormnest has joined #openttd 07:01:35 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd 07:04:17 <Pikka> o/ 07:04:27 *** andythenorth has quit IRC 07:04:35 <Pikka> was it something I said? 07:05:16 <peter1138> o 07:21:43 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd 07:21:47 <andythenorth> moin 07:22:07 <andythenorth> oh it's 1968 again in my game 07:23:59 <Pikka> how did that happen? 07:24:09 *** Wormnest has quit IRC 07:24:16 <andythenorth> I used the built in daylength feature 07:24:20 <andythenorth> ctrl-alt-c 07:26:22 <Pikka> fancy 07:26:29 <andythenorth> yup 07:26:52 <Pikka> maybe we should get rid of the "funny" description on that window 07:26:58 <Pikka> it seems to upset some people 07:27:49 <andythenorth> it does 07:27:54 <andythenorth> it inhibits sandbox play 07:35:14 <Pikka> oop, gotta go climb a wall! 07:35:16 *** Pikka has quit IRC 07:37:02 *** Samu has joined #openttd 07:42:59 *** nielsm has joined #openttd 07:55:33 *** Wormnest has joined #openttd 08:01:12 <DorpsGek_III_> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick updated pull request #7937: Build on competitor canal https://git.io/JvUIQ 08:05:29 *** andythenorth has quit IRC 08:11:52 *** Samu has quit IRC 08:36:34 *** tokai has joined #openttd 08:36:34 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai 08:43:20 *** tokai|noir has quit IRC 08:47:43 *** Wormnest has quit IRC 09:09:20 *** supermop_Home has quit IRC 09:11:11 <peter1138> I... accidentally went to sleep with my client connected to my server ;( 09:19:15 <planetmaker> so... are now many little clients being spawned? 09:54:35 <peter1138> Um 09:54:46 <peter1138> No but it's 2035 or something instead of late 90s :p 10:00:24 *** hythlodaeus has joined #openttd 10:30:54 *** Arveen has quit IRC 10:39:15 *** Arveen has joined #openttd 11:16:29 *** Arveen2 has joined #openttd 11:23:17 *** Arveen has quit IRC 11:36:43 *** WormnestAndroid has quit IRC 11:36:56 *** WormnestAndroid has joined #openttd 11:52:12 *** Pikka has joined #openttd 11:53:00 *** nielsm has quit IRC 11:53:23 *** snail_UES_ has joined #openttd 12:01:45 *** snail_UES_ has quit IRC 12:19:22 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd 12:34:57 <Pikka> well 12:38:44 <peter1138> That's a hole. 12:43:23 <andythenorth> daylength :P 12:51:48 * LordAro smacks andythenorth 12:51:52 <andythenorth> is it fractal? 12:52:01 * andythenorth reading about transfer leg profits 12:52:03 <andythenorth> JGR 13:08:05 *** Samu has joined #openttd 13:23:52 <andythenorth> I should turn breakdowns on eh 13:37:43 <peter1138> I saladed. 13:37:48 <peter1138> But yes, breakdowns. 13:38:06 <peter1138> Also I'm using default ships in 2040s... I guess breakdowns would be bad. 13:39:04 <andythenorth> breakdowns mess with my buzz :P 13:46:30 *** Smedles has quit IRC 13:47:59 *** colde has quit IRC 13:48:10 *** colde has joined #openttd 13:58:22 *** Flygon has quit IRC 14:03:00 *** Pikka has quit IRC 14:07:06 <Samu> what do you think of 14:07:14 <Samu> https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/7937 14:12:44 *** supermop_work has joined #openttd 14:14:31 *** Pikka has joined #openttd 14:25:34 <Samu> oh snap, found NULL's on my code 14:25:38 <Samu> it's old code :8 14:28:57 <andythenorth> oops it's 1973 in my game 14:29:01 * andythenorth turns it back to 1971 14:30:31 <Pikka> why not 1968? 14:31:34 <andythenorth> well 14:31:38 <andythenorth> time has to advance I guess :) 14:31:50 <andythenorth> otherwise I'll never get any super OP trains 14:33:45 * andythenorth has a maths puzzle 14:34:04 <andythenorth> 2 trains, both carry 484t cargo 14:34:31 <andythenorth> one weighs 361t empty and 484t loaded 14:34:42 <andythenorth> 845t loaded * 14:34:52 <andythenorth> @calc 361 + 484 14:34:52 <DorpsGek> andythenorth: 845 14:35:14 <andythenorth> the other weights 352t empty and 646t loaded 14:35:20 <andythenorth> @calc 352 + 646 14:35:21 <DorpsGek> andythenorth: 998 14:35:39 <andythenorth> oof I really needed to sleep 14:35:46 <andythenorth> @calc 352 + 484 14:35:46 <DorpsGek> andythenorth: 836 14:36:16 <andythenorth> anyway, something is wrong with the total weight of the 2nd train, but I had no sleep, and don't trust my eyes :P 14:36:27 <andythenorth> self-inflicted, stayed up too late playing openttd 14:36:32 <planetmaker> ask your kids :) 14:44:12 <DorpsGek_III_> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick updated pull request #7937: Build on competitor canal https://git.io/JvUIQ 14:49:43 <Samu> well, is it useful? #7937? 14:49:58 *** hythlodaeus has quit IRC 14:50:18 <DorpsGek_III_> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Eddi-z opened pull request #7938: Feature: Setting for a year that repeats forever https://git.io/JvU08 14:50:25 <Eddi|zuHause> (untested) 14:52:10 <andythenorth> groundhog year 14:52:40 <Eddi|zuHause> that is the name of the branch :) 14:52:44 <andythenorth> I was wondering what happens if we repeat months or days 14:52:51 <andythenorth> I didn't read industry production code yet though 14:53:02 <Eddi|zuHause> oh, compile failed 14:53:31 <andythenorth> I think I'd want a groundhog threshold 14:53:36 <andythenorth> i.e. repeat n times 14:53:44 <andythenorth> groundhog count 14:53:44 <Eddi|zuHause> i forgot a thing adding the setting, apparently 14:53:57 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: just use the date cheat to move on 14:54:02 <andythenorth> so daylength is solved 14:54:13 <andythenorth> and I've solved cdist by turning town growth to minimal 14:54:36 <andythenorth> did we ever stop towns using magic bulldozer to delete things 14:54:55 <andythenorth> cos magic bulldozer solves most of sandbox mode 14:54:56 <Eddi|zuHause> no idea 14:54:59 <Samu> ah, im not the only one that makes non descript PRs 14:55:10 <andythenorth> just need to solve town ratings, game is finished 14:55:19 <Eddi|zuHause> i need to go out shopping, i was like a minute too late yesterday 14:55:24 <andythenorth> ouch 14:57:48 <DorpsGek_III_> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Eddi-z updated pull request #7938: Feature: Setting for a year that repeats forever https://git.io/JvU08 14:58:00 <Eddi|zuHause> (still untested) 15:02:22 <Samu> are these errors normal? https://pastebin.com/raw/ddLJvhfU 15:02:46 <Samu> it still builds, but i get so many errors along the way 15:03:19 *** Wormnest has joined #openttd 15:12:25 <DorpsGek_III_> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Eddi-z updated pull request #7938: Feature: Setting for a year that repeats forever https://git.io/JvU08 15:12:36 <Eddi|zuHause> (3rd time is the charm?) 15:12:50 <andythenorth> shops Eddi|zuHause :P 15:12:55 <andythenorth> don't want you going hungry 15:13:02 <Eddi|zuHause> ok, ok... 15:13:16 <Samu> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SmS9RWcJok0 - is this a masterpiece or not really? 15:13:23 <Eddi|zuHause> i wouldn't be going hungry, but i'm out of sugary drinks 15:14:01 <Samu> music video, no actual video though 15:14:43 <FLHerne> Samu: I like the idea of permanent rivers 15:16:12 <Samu> :) 15:16:22 <Samu> if only rivers were actually useful 15:16:26 <Samu> but yeah 15:16:39 <Eddi|zuHause> the next opportunity to go shopping while on the way to somewhere would be in 2 days 15:16:49 <Samu> my lock friendly rivers patch was rejected 15:16:57 <Samu> would combine well with perma rivers 15:19:21 <DorpsGek_III_> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick updated pull request #7937: Build on competitor canal https://git.io/JvUIQ 15:19:39 <Samu> cleaning up stuff that didn't belong to this patch 15:20:03 <Samu> you know me, I always pack everything in a single commit 15:20:13 <Samu> i'm deconstructing it 15:21:49 <Samu> a year that repeats forever is a "good idea" 15:22:00 <Samu> if it works as expected 15:27:01 <Samu> i've been wanting to test AIs in a certain era 15:27:16 <Samu> 1975 era, hoping it would last forever 1975 15:27:25 <Samu> for example, i think that patch would come useful 15:32:04 <Samu> i think i forgot documenting object tiles built on canals build on rivers 15:32:36 <Samu> yep, on landscape_grid 15:32:39 <Samu> damn me 15:36:08 <DorpsGek_III_> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick updated pull request #7937: Build on competitor canal https://git.io/JvUIQ 15:37:24 <Samu> you know what? locks should be waypoints 15:37:45 <Samu> but that's for another day 15:46:03 <planetmaker> Why should they be waypoints? 15:46:21 <planetmaker> We have buoys as waypoints for water vessels 15:46:59 <planetmaker> when I go from A to B, it doesn't matter whether I use the Eastern or the Western lock in the channel. I use whichever opens first 15:51:51 <Samu> ok 15:51:59 <Samu> [img]https://i.imgur.com/vv4TTg0.png[/img] - my changes in red 15:52:21 <Samu> red squares 15:52:49 <Samu> at m6 it stores canal owners 15:52:56 <Samu> on those 4 bits 15:53:25 <Samu> should have included shipdepot in the square, but meh... 15:53:58 <Samu> at m8 it stores whether the canal was built on a river 15:56:59 <Samu> i still don't understand what yellow ~ is for 15:57:29 <Samu> ~ - bit is accessed, but does not really have a meaning (e.g. owner of clear land is always OWNER_NONE) 15:58:00 <Samu> hmm.... "k" 16:06:23 *** Wormnest has quit IRC 16:09:36 *** sla_ro|master has joined #openttd 16:12:58 *** Pikka has quit IRC 16:14:45 *** WormnestAndroid has quit IRC 16:15:08 *** WormnestAndroid has joined #openttd 16:47:46 *** supermop_work has quit IRC 16:55:11 *** Progman has joined #openttd 16:56:52 *** supermop_work has joined #openttd 16:59:05 <Samu> nobody says anything? 17:04:30 <andythenorth> daytime traffic is low in irc Samu 17:04:37 <andythenorth> mostly me and you 17:04:40 <andythenorth> and lunch chat 17:04:47 <andythenorth> patience grasshopper 17:15:07 <Samu> assert(depth < WATER_DEPTH_MAX); while testing #7924 17:15:29 <Samu> 15 < 15 17:15:33 <Samu> heh 17:19:43 <Eddi|zuHause> so. i actually was shopping! 17:20:15 <andythenorth> ! 17:33:22 <DorpsGek_III_> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SJang1 commented on issue #7830: Load font from openttd config file directory, not from working directory. https://git.io/JewMG 17:33:23 *** nielsm has joined #openttd 17:39:57 *** rtrdd has joined #openttd 17:44:45 *** zvxb has quit IRC 17:46:04 <Samu> suddenly "savegame upgrade" pops everywhere 17:46:29 <DorpsGek_III_> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh merged pull request #7791: GS method to control engine availability for a specific company https://git.io/JeREi 17:46:34 <nielsm> yeah :) 18:05:07 *** frosch123 has joined #openttd 18:06:54 *** HerzogDeXtEr has joined #openttd 18:09:01 *** tokai|noir has joined #openttd 18:09:01 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai|noir 18:15:55 *** glx has joined #openttd 18:15:55 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v glx 18:15:58 *** tokai has quit IRC 18:26:44 *** andythenorth has quit IRC 18:30:16 *** Wormnest has joined #openttd 18:33:18 *** innocenat_ has quit IRC 18:34:15 *** ToBeCloud has quit IRC 18:38:05 *** WormnestAndroid has quit IRC 18:38:42 *** WormnestAndroid has joined #openttd 18:53:10 <DorpsGek_III_> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] frosch123 commented on pull request #7938: Feature: Setting for a year that repeats forever https://git.io/JvUws 18:55:22 <TrueBrain> I am heavily disappointed only in a comment "groundhog" is mentioned. I vote to rename the variable to GROUNDHOG_YEAR 18:57:16 <frosch123> i never saw that movie 18:57:22 <TrueBrain> :o :o :o 18:57:36 <TrueBrain> I .... am not sure ... how to deal with this 18:59:26 <nielsm> https://0x0.st/zhMD.jpg 18:59:46 <TrueBrain> nice! 18:59:48 *** Wolf01 has joined #openttd 19:00:22 <nielsm> but some of the sprites are slightly broken (wrong offset) so it looks wrong :P https://0x0.st/zhMd.png 19:00:24 <frosch123> hmm, the shading stuff did not work with palette animation, did it? 19:01:19 <frosch123> oh, newgrf water. does it work the same as rivers and canals? 19:02:27 <nielsm> no, I figured doing it with something callback-based would be bad for something that exists in as large quantities as flat water 19:02:29 *** tokai|noir has quit IRC 19:02:37 <nielsm> and it may as well just be a static table 19:02:53 <nielsm> but there is a new variable for the river/canals callbacks to check depth of the current tile 19:03:02 <nielsm> so they can do things 19:03:09 <frosch123> he, at some point we wanted to do newlandscape :p 19:03:54 <nielsm> that's RCT-style landscape right? 19:04:13 <frosch123> no, callback based ground tiles 19:04:19 <nielsm> :o 19:04:27 <frosch123> you know, more than just water tiles :) 19:05:01 *** crazystacy has joined #openttd 19:05:05 <crazystacy> hello 19:05:08 <frosch123> it was about adding random bits, doodads, fences, hedges, ... 19:05:30 <crazystacy> i always used to full load everything, and specifically put "unload". but now i don't set anything, just goto A, goto B (let's say coal). but i'm not sure what is most efficient 19:05:55 <crazystacy> let's say it never manages to get a full load, then it's just going back and forth. or if the journey is extremely long. if i load 20% and travel for ages, that can't be good 19:06:04 <crazystacy> i was wondering if anyone had some maths on it 19:06:07 <frosch123> you almost never want to explicitly set "unload" 19:06:18 <crazystacy> i used to think so 19:06:25 <crazystacy> it saved my finger a lot of clickin 19:06:47 <frosch123> the time waiting at the station is included in the delivery speed 19:07:12 <frosch123> so you want the wait-for-full-load not be a significant percentage of the travel time 19:07:43 <frosch123> also there is a intermediate between "full load" and "load any". you can timetable the loading time to "5 days" or similar 19:07:56 <frosch123> (but don't timetable travel times, only loading times) 19:08:48 <crazystacy> i can time table loading? that's ice 19:08:53 <crazystacy> i didn't get as far as timetables yet 19:09:05 <crazystacy> what happens if you timetable travel times? it gives up and skips? 19:09:14 <frosch123> well, it's said to be the only useful application of timetables 19:09:19 <crazystacy> ah 19:09:41 <frosch123> timetabling travel times causes many issues. noone admits to play with that :) 19:09:46 <crazystacy> LOL 19:12:29 <DorpsGek_III_> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Phx01 commented on issue #7920: Purchase land tool lacks by-area https://git.io/JveBj 19:13:02 * _dp_ never knew timetables had a useful application 19:13:35 <_dp_> well, I guess, I don't considered partial load to be a useful application either :p 19:14:48 <nielsm> interesting, TGP actually did make a steep "cliff" underwater here: https://0x0.st/zhur.jpg 19:15:05 <nielsm> depth 12 to 8 19:15:15 <frosch123> tgp does not know about max slopes 19:15:27 <nielsm> yeah, I know it needs smoothing 19:17:56 <nielsm> except that deepwater does not require smooth gradients, so it's fine here 19:19:20 <frosch123> sell it as realism 19:19:41 <frosch123> does it rerandomise the depth when oilrigs shut down? 19:21:08 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd 19:21:18 <nielsm> does a circular tile search for nearby water tiles and grabs a depth from that 19:22:09 <frosch123> i was thinking of the coal mine disaster 19:23:12 <andythenorth> we flooding coal mines? 19:23:18 * andythenorth should logs :P 19:25:43 *** Wolf01 has quit IRC 19:25:59 <frosch123> some firs industries could leave river/lake tiles behind after they close down 19:26:10 <frosch123> except firs industries do not close down, or something :p 19:26:25 <Samu> wow, how do u get graphics working there? 19:26:42 <nielsm> another: https://0x0.st/zhuK.jpg 19:27:26 <Samu> all i get is a ? for every water tile 19:27:53 <nielsm> you need a newgrf with water depth sprites 19:27:54 *** innocenat_ has joined #openttd 19:29:31 <DorpsGek_III_> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh updated pull request #7924: Feature: Water tiles have a depth https://git.io/JvfWw 19:30:39 <nielsm> here's two water depth newgrfs: https://0x0.st/zhub.zip 19:31:29 <Samu> wow :) 19:32:30 *** Wolf01 has joined #openttd 19:32:31 <Samu> thx, gonna test 19:33:02 <andythenorth> is someone setting up an MP game then? o_O 19:33:12 <andythenorth> so we can find out what's broken in 1.10 19:33:18 *** sla_ro|master has quit IRC 19:33:27 <DorpsGek_III_> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh commented on pull request #7924: Feature: Water tiles have a depth https://git.io/JvUrC 19:36:32 <andythenorth> what does clearing water even mean with deep depths? :P 19:36:44 <andythenorth> lots of long discussion there about a possible non thing 19:37:11 <crazystacy> will water depth be added to the game? 19:37:24 <frosch123> andythenorth: https://orange.handelsblatt.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/08/plastik-ozean-760x428.jpg <- clearing water 19:37:54 <frosch123> maybe that should be a firs industry, producing plastic 19:38:08 <andythenorth> is that the dutch guy? 19:38:09 <nielsm> andythenorth: https://0x0.st/zhum.png 19:38:27 <nielsm> that's without basecosts mod, without inflation, and at low construction costs :) 19:38:27 <andythenorth> nielsm: and if I canalise it? 19:38:33 <crazystacy> nice 19:39:00 <nielsm> that still costs over a million per tile :) 19:39:15 <frosch123> andythenorth: it's some marketing sketch from some 2017 startup. no idea whether that startup still exists 19:39:17 <crazystacy> now they won't grief my boats anymore :D 19:39:31 <nielsm> canals have a max depth of 3 (right now) and converting a deeper tile to canal will require demolishing the water and rebuilding it as canal 19:39:55 <crazystacy> well it's a much nicer startup than Juicero that's for sure 19:40:26 <crazystacy> so there will be some sort of canal tanker? so that i can ferry my oil tanker oil up the river 19:40:32 <andythenorth> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boyan_Slat frosch123 19:41:15 <nielsm> right now there are no restrictions on how deep or shallow water any boat can sail on 19:41:32 <supermop_work> BUT MY GALLEY WILL SINK 19:41:45 <crazystacy> is it "sail" if it's an oil tanker? :P 19:41:45 <nielsm> all ships can sail on canals and rivers, as long as there are locks built for every elevation change 19:42:00 <andythenorth> oof locks 19:42:02 <nielsm> ships sail even when they have combustion engines :P 19:42:17 <crazystacy> how much sail would a sailboat sail if a sailboat didn't have sails? 19:42:28 *** jinks has quit IRC 19:42:52 <nielsm> also wow debug build performance is terrible with 32bpp sprites 19:43:05 <nielsm> but only when the game is unpaused 19:43:17 <nielsm> ah, full animation 19:43:32 <crazystacy> i'm trying to manually call NetworkClientConnectGame from the code, but it crashes 19:43:39 <crazystacy> and sometimes it does work O_o 19:44:32 <crazystacy> by manually i mean directly as opposed to through the existing methods like console or gui 19:45:12 <crazystacy> - and the debug output is not meaningful :/ 19:45:51 <andythenorth> nielsm: full animation is over 19:45:58 <andythenorth> we should possibly remove it? 19:46:10 <nielsm> choices: build this bridge https://0x0.st/zhuQ.jpg - or build around the bay - or spend 2 or 4 million on making a series of shorter bridges spanning 19:46:24 <andythenorth> canal cheat of course 19:46:26 <nielsm> (making the islands costs that much) 19:46:30 <andythenorth> build canals, demolish the inner part 19:46:33 *** jinks has joined #openttd 19:46:57 <nielsm> building canals over the deep water still costs the water clearing cost 19:47:09 <nielsm> and demolishing deep canals is still expensive 19:47:29 <andythenorth> no hax :( 19:47:32 <andythenorth> denied 19:47:32 <crazystacy> clear water = purify the ocean at that exact spot 19:47:55 <crazystacy> 57 000 is cheap 19:48:23 <nielsm> 3x3 tiles of canals: https://0x0.st/zhu_.png 19:48:42 <crazystacy> that looks like a meme waiting to happen 19:48:52 <crazystacy> it just needs a half-transparent face of a crying man in the corner 19:49:17 <andythenorth> reddit will love it 19:50:08 <frosch123> andythenorth: it's only osx that fails with animation, isn't it? 19:50:32 <andythenorth> probably 19:50:44 <andythenorth> there are other reports of slow with no final cause 19:51:03 <nielsm> 32bpp sprites with full animation is also stupid slow on win32 in debug builds, I just discovered, but that's not an issue in itself 19:51:06 <nielsm> (it's a debug build) 19:51:59 <andythenorth> I tried to find the docs for 'not a debug build' 19:52:02 <andythenorth> but I couldn't figure it out 19:52:12 <andythenorth> I even read the build farm stuff on GH, but no light shone 19:52:22 <nielsm> -O2 or -O3 in the CXXFLAGS 19:52:25 <andythenorth> my local compile is ~unusable 19:53:30 <andythenorth> so are these configure flags or make flags? 19:53:34 * andythenorth is clueless sorry 19:54:15 <milek7_> configure 19:54:16 <milek7_> --enable-debug[=LVL] enable debug-mode (LVL=[0123], 0 is release) 19:55:32 * andythenorth tests 19:56:35 <nielsm> is "water_clearing_cost_power" a good setting name? 19:56:56 <nielsm> depth raised to the n'th power as multiplier for clearing cost 19:57:33 <nielsm> n=0, same clearing cost for any depth, n=1 clearing cost is linear dependency on depth, n=2 clearing cost is squared dependency on depth 19:58:09 <Samu> oh, even toyland water is dark too 19:58:17 <frosch123> water_clearing_cost_exponent 19:58:25 <crazystacy> what difference does --enable-debug=[level] do in configure? 19:58:39 <crazystacy> i set it to 1 and 2 and didn't notice any difference. 3 made my laptop lag to death during building 19:58:47 <crazystacy> i mean it's not the same as openttd -d 1/2/3 right? 19:58:49 <milek7_> water_clearing_cost_exponent? 19:58:58 <nielsm> yeah that's better 19:59:02 <crazystacy> -d [lvl] is for debug logging? 19:59:07 <frosch123> crazystacy: >0 enables debug symbols, higher values disable optimisations 19:59:22 <crazystacy> ok 19:59:39 <andythenorth> so yeah, the official binary runs my savegame stably at 1.02x 19:59:59 <andythenorth> my local build fluctuates same savegame, same date, same map position 0.9-0.95x 20:00:15 <andythenorth> the local build falls on it's knees further and faster as well 20:00:21 <andythenorth> when I go to a busy area of map 20:00:46 <andythenorth> I gave it ./configure --enable-debug=0 20:01:02 <milek7_> it's default anyway 20:01:09 <andythenorth> so something in my libs, or compiler or something is fucked 20:01:11 <DorpsGek_III_> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Phx01 opened issue #7939: Feature Request: Moving/Relocating/Offsetting (Certain) Industries https://git.io/JvUr7 20:01:16 <andythenorth> this will be fun to diagnose :( 20:01:51 <frosch123> andythenorth: i think stable builds add --disable-assert 20:02:20 <nielsm> what setting value names? "original/expensive/very much expensiver"? 20:02:36 <nielsm> or just boring "original/linear/square"? 20:03:08 <crazystacy> "troll/hardmode/avoid ocean" 20:03:15 <nielsm> or maybe "original"/"cost*depth"/"cost*depth*depth" 20:03:19 <frosch123> Influence of water depths on clearing cost: None/linear/quadratic 20:05:04 <frosch123> every game should contain some math. otherwise people are afraid because their moms forbid them to use ctrl+alt+c 20:05:40 <crazystacy> i don't get it 20:05:45 <andythenorth> pikka suggested rewording the cheat menu 20:05:55 <andythenorth> I suggest 'sandbox mode options' 20:05:59 <andythenorth> or just 'have fun!' 20:06:24 <andythenorth> I am very uninterested in any of the original game's restrictions, after this long playing it :P 20:06:44 <frosch123> crazystacy: there are some people who want a "feature" that is already available via the cheat menu. but they refuse to use the cheat menu and instead request that it should be regular game behaviour 20:07:04 <crazystacy> what feature is that? 20:07:10 <frosch123> somehow they are afraid to use "cheats" 20:07:22 <crazystacy> call it "handicap" 20:07:41 <frosch123> recently it was about fast aircraft having extra crash chance on short runways 20:07:54 <crazystacy> oh i saw that. my whole fleet crashed 20:08:14 <crazystacy> i had the smallest airport with that 1500 km/h plane 20:08:15 <_dp_> just move all cheats to settings :p 20:08:23 <andythenorth> I wanted full sandbox mode, but it turns out to be mostly magic bulldozer 20:08:36 <andythenorth> I wanted daylength, but it turns out to be 'reset the year every year' 20:08:44 <crazystacy> daylength? 20:08:48 <nielsm> magic bulldozer and neutered town councils 20:08:52 <andythenorth> _dp_: any idea if magic bulldozer got fixed? 20:09:07 <milek7_> and unlimited money 20:09:08 <andythenorth> it used to be super dangerous to leave on as towns would just delete stuff 20:09:10 <_dp_> andythenorth, you mean for towns? I didn't even know it was broken xD 20:09:18 <frosch123> it was fixed in 0.6 20:09:29 <andythenorth> so towns no longer just destroy arbitrary things? o_O 20:09:36 <crazystacy> that sounds mad 20:09:39 <andythenorth> I have been turning it off in fear 20:09:44 <andythenorth> and then on again 20:09:48 <crazystacy> tbh cities should be decimated 20:09:55 <frosch123> the fix was part of one of my first patches, a side effect of terraform under infrastructure 20:10:00 <crazystacy> make way for the coal 20:10:17 <andythenorth> if we can just nerf local authority, sandbox mode is done 20:10:27 <frosch123> andythenorth: so the issue has been fixed for longer than it ever was a thing :) 20:10:28 <crazystacy> i want a grf which changes passengers to meatbags and disables town councils 20:10:30 <crazystacy> no more humans 20:10:57 <frosch123> issue for 4 years, fixed for 12 years :) 20:11:04 <andythenorth> this is how long rumours persist :P 20:11:07 <andythenorth> bad half-life :P 20:11:29 <andythenorth> well ./configure --enable-debug=0 --disable-assert is running at 0.88x 20:11:32 <andythenorth> this is lolz :) 20:11:47 <milek7_> "Magic bulldozer has some side effects though. As not only you as player gain higher bulldozer rights, also the towns get the ability to remove industries. " 20:11:53 <milek7_> from wiki 20:12:12 <frosch123> just as outdated :) 20:12:38 <frosch123> stuff got removed accidentially by terraforming nearby 20:12:50 <frosch123> but terraforming no longer does that 20:13:56 <nielsm> uh do we have a simple "int power" function? 20:13:59 <nielsm> >_> 20:15:01 <andythenorth> wiki is fixed then? 20:15:03 * andythenorth looks :) 20:15:23 <frosch123> nielsm: unlikely 20:16:12 * andythenorth fixed wiki 20:16:14 <TrueBrain> frosch123: https://docs.dev.openttd.org/ <- is this something you would like to see? 20:16:22 <TrueBrain> any suggestions / additions / changes 20:16:29 <frosch123> nielsm: https://en.cppreference.com/w/cpp/numeric/math/pow <- apparently the template can do ints 20:16:31 <TrueBrain> (this would be publishes just after a new master release is created) 20:16:36 <andythenorth> TrueBrain: I love it! 20:16:48 <frosch123> TrueBrain: earlier it only said "hello" :) 20:16:57 <TrueBrain> I know :P That is called developing :) 20:16:58 <DorpsGek_III_> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro merged pull request #7936: Fix: [SDL2] sdl driver debug log https://git.io/JvJ7n 20:17:11 <andythenorth> is anything happening to current docs? https://docs.openttd.org/ 20:17:25 <TrueBrain> it will do "poef" if I roll this out :P 20:17:25 <andythenorth> or to ask a better question... 20:17:32 <andythenorth> if it changes can you let me know, so I can update this https://wiki.openttd.org/Development 20:17:33 <andythenorth> thanks 20:17:36 <frosch123> we should add a proper front page though 20:17:54 <LordAro> TrueBrain: looks good 20:18:03 <Samu> this water depth stuff is so pretty :) 20:18:09 <LordAro> though it would be nice if the doxygen for the game itself was there 20:18:12 <LordAro> as useless as it may be 20:18:17 <TrueBrain> it really really is useless 20:18:23 <TrueBrain> so if you promise me to make it less useless 20:18:25 <TrueBrain> I am willing to add it :P 20:18:47 <TrueBrain> frosch123: yeah, I was thinking the same .. just not sure how yet 20:19:09 <frosch123> by adding a @mainpage in the source? 20:19:17 <TrueBrain> yeah ... I wish it was that easy 20:19:29 <TrueBrain> but what I was thinking: add a dummy page to the website, and curl it into here 20:19:33 <TrueBrain> that might work 20:19:39 <Samu> currently toying with pathfinder + water depth. I'm trying higher pf costs on deeper depths, but the opposite as well 20:19:46 <frosch123> are we talking about different things? 20:19:51 <frosch123> why does @mainpage not work? 20:19:54 <nielsm> frosch123: it looks like the MS stdlib implementation just calls the C pow() function with doubles 20:19:57 <Samu> lower costs on deeper depths vs higher costs on deeper depths 20:20:12 <LordAro> nielsm: ew 20:20:19 <TrueBrain> frosch123: we are talking about different things I guess; no clue what you mean with @mainpage in that case :) 20:20:40 <andythenorth> it was on my list to try and fix https://www.openttd.org/development.html 20:20:59 <andythenorth> I just didn't fancy the inevitable PR review cycle, and 10 people with 10 ideas who didn't do anything themselves :) 20:21:12 <LordAro> frosch123 is talking about a doxygen frontpage (to replace the equivalent of http://docs.openttd.org/) 20:21:19 *** crazystacy has quit IRC 20:21:29 <TrueBrain> ah, doxygen frontpage :) 20:21:35 <LordAro> presumably TrueBrain is thinking of a front page for https://docs.dev.openttd.org/ 20:21:36 <TrueBrain> I don't like how https://docs.dev.openttd.org/ looks :P 20:21:43 <andythenorth> it's kinda fine 20:21:45 <andythenorth> just old 20:21:54 <andythenorth> it's not unusable or anything 20:22:01 <LordAro> needs more jquery 20:22:06 <TrueBrain> okay, you guys fix the source doxygen, I will add it to docs :) 20:22:17 <Samu> I can see water depth help "guide" the pathfinder to the correct places 20:23:16 <Samu> I envision it can visit more nodes which are closer to land 20:23:24 <Samu> than searching deep into the ocean 20:24:27 <milek7_> nitpick: it's xhtml served with text/html content-type 20:24:39 <frosch123> do you intentionally not use "nogo" and "noai" in the url, in favour of "xyz-scripting"? 20:24:46 <nielsm> Samu: water depth does not necessarily have anything to do with distance to land 20:24:54 <frosch123> because noone says "-scripting" on gs/ai context :) 20:25:20 <Samu> oh, right :( it's not instant :( 20:25:25 <Samu> it's an over time effect 20:25:44 <nielsm> yes and the current erosion might still be too fast 20:25:53 <TrueBrain> damn, source docs is HUGE :P 20:26:06 <TrueBrain> frosch123: https://www.openttd.org/downloads/openttd-nightlies/latest.html 20:26:09 <TrueBrain> I used the lingo used there 20:26:30 <frosch123> how odd :) 20:26:33 <TrueBrain> and gs is "Game Scripting", so .... :P 20:26:46 <TrueBrain> https://docs.dev.openttd.org/source/index.html 20:26:50 <frosch123> well, "game script" 20:27:14 <nielsm> https://0x0.st/zhuv.png like that? 20:27:18 <TrueBrain> Game API and NoAI API ? 20:27:23 <TrueBrain> (as it is named in Doxygen titles) 20:27:43 <frosch123> the "todo list" is the best part of every doxygen output 20:28:03 <TrueBrain> or how do you refer to noai/nogo these days most often? 20:28:47 <milek7_> something looks off with truetype fonts in ottd 20:28:53 <milek7_> it just looks weird 20:29:39 <glx> double/quad GUI zoom ? 20:30:34 <TrueBrain> https://docs.dev.openttd.org/noai/index.html https://docs.dev.openttd.org/ai/index.html https://docs.dev.openttd.org/ai-scripting/index.html 20:30:36 <TrueBrain> any preference? 20:30:43 <frosch123> TrueBrain: "AI API" and "Game API" sounds fine 20:30:56 <nielsm> I prefer just "AI" and "GS" 20:30:56 <TrueBrain> (I have to fix the "index.html" part btw, but this needs an Lambda@Edge .. need to read up on that :P) 20:31:16 <frosch123> "ai" and "gs" would match the class prefix 20:31:22 <nielsm> that the features were called "noai" and "nogo" during development is a weird artifact I don't think is important for those urls 20:31:38 <TrueBrain> so ai-api/ and gs-api/ ? 20:31:41 <frosch123> and you do not have to worry about space/dash/underscore in front of api :) 20:31:42 <nielsm> yeah 20:32:53 <frosch123> nielsm: "OpenTTD NoAI API" is the title of the doxygen page :) 20:33:03 <TrueBrain> https://docs.dev.openttd.org/ <- like this? 20:33:07 <TrueBrain> so fix the Doxygen :) 20:33:33 <TrueBrain> it also reads "Game API" 20:33:42 <DorpsGek_III_> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh updated pull request #7924: Feature: Water tiles have a depth https://git.io/JvfWw 20:33:48 <frosch123> nielsm: it looks like gcc inlines pow when the exponent is known, otherwise it calls the c function 20:34:50 <frosch123> TrueBrain: urls are fine. i am not sure whether it needs the "docs" front page 20:35:03 <frosch123> the subpages could be linked directly from the website 20:35:22 <TrueBrain> yeah, but people tend to try the root domain too 20:35:29 <TrueBrain> so if it doesn't hurt, it is fine, I guess :) 20:35:36 <nielsm> frosch123: but I want a function that does not invoke floating point 20:35:36 <frosch123> well, the this basic layout is fine 20:35:51 <TrueBrain> basically, we never direct to https://docs.dev.openttd.org/ directly, indeed 20:35:55 <TrueBrain> but always to the subfolders :) 20:36:07 <TrueBrain> I will also redirect noai... to the right folder 20:36:28 <TrueBrain> if it helps, I can also attach "ai.docs.openttd.org" to it? 20:36:34 <TrueBrain> not sure that helps :D 20:36:59 <frosch123> nielsm: "pow(num,2)" is optimised to "mulsd", "pow(num 3)" results in a call 20:37:14 <TrueBrain> I hate it doesn't mention anywhere on what version it is based .. that is just bad 20:37:37 <frosch123> oh wait, it uses the xmm registers 20:39:06 <TrueBrain> I wonder if we can change Doxygen to add the version in the footer .. 20:39:12 <frosch123> TrueBrain: doxygen has a timestamp of the gernation 20:39:46 <frosch123> oh, it doesn't in our layout.... 20:40:06 <frosch123> well, i am pretty sure i have seen that, so it should be possible 20:40:13 <TrueBrain> I agree :) 20:41:21 <frosch123> yeah, there is $datetime 20:41:55 <TrueBrain> means we need to make a footer html file, I guess 20:43:09 <TrueBrain> and if we do that, we might as well add the exact OpenTTD version it was build for in there 20:43:38 <frosch123> then you need an additional builtstep 20:43:59 <frosch123> datetime can be added with static source and doxygen 20:44:04 <frosch123> but doxygen does not know git hashes 20:44:35 <TrueBrain> but the docs-builder does 20:44:42 <TrueBrain> and doxygen can use env-variables :) 20:45:01 <TrueBrain> so I think we can simply do both 20:45:24 <TrueBrain> if you disagree that would be best, let me know :) 20:46:45 <Samu> testing extreme penalties that basically just tells ships to walk near coasts 20:46:54 <Samu> it's funny 20:48:07 <DorpsGek_III_> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh commented on issue #7939: Feature Request: Moving/Relocating/Offsetting (Certain) Industries https://git.io/JvUr7 20:48:36 <frosch123> TrueBrain: apparently doxygen has a PROJECT_NUMBER variable for that 20:49:10 <frosch123> though that is set in Doxyfile 20:49:31 <TrueBrain> which can accept env-variables :) 20:49:34 <TrueBrain> so that is fine for me 20:50:00 <frosch123> oh, did not know that 20:50:12 <frosch123> so, then it is probably the intended method to do that 20:51:49 <TrueBrain> lets test that out :) 20:52:26 <Samu> have a gamescript "move" the industry for u 20:52:37 <frosch123> why do we generate a tag file ... 20:53:25 <TrueBrain> bit ugly in the title, the project number .. but .. I guess it is exactly what we need 20:55:20 <TrueBrain> https://pasteboard.co/IQ8cGUg.png 20:56:19 <andythenorth> seems good 20:56:47 <Samu> moving an industry to the left 1 tile 20:56:55 <Samu> how doable is that in code? :o 20:57:09 <nielsm> difficult 20:58:29 <Samu> even if it's a water tower 20:58:29 <nielsm> you need to remove all the industry tiles, then place them again at the new location while doing all checks for being valid at the new location, and if those fail you need to make sure the industry is put back 20:58:40 <DorpsGek_III_> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain opened pull request #7940: Add: [Doxygen] Add the current version of documentation in header https://git.io/JvUoh 20:58:42 <nielsm> yeah town industries are probably worse 20:58:53 <nielsm> since they need to replace houses to build 20:59:25 <Samu> i'd just build a new industry, remove the older one, and call it "moved" 21:00:33 <DorpsGek_III_> [OpenTTD/CompileFarm] TrueBrain opened pull request #41: Add: [release-docs] tell Doxygen about the version we are creating https://git.io/JvUKe 21:00:59 <Samu> i wish there was a way to pathfind from every tile to every tile and tell the success rate 21:01:09 <Samu> just a testing mode 21:02:38 <Samu> 1 million search nodes 21:02:47 <Samu> is it enough for 4kx4k maps? 21:03:16 <Wolf01> https://9gag.com/gag/a3RWjzr ha! 21:04:40 <nielsm> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dijkstra%27s_algorithm - implemented in one or more places in OTTD already 21:05:20 <nielsm> (single-source shortest paths algorithm, from a single tile find the shortest path to any other reachable tile) 21:05:32 <nielsm> (and you'd have to repeat it for every source tile you're interested in) 21:05:53 <TrueBrain> okay, I have most of the code ready to put these "docs" in production .. but that is something for another day :) 21:07:07 <nielsm> the A* algorithm implemented for NPF is a modified Dijkstra that uses heuristics to try more likely edges first https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/blob/master/src/pathfinder/npf/aystar.h 21:07:44 <nielsm> well, A* is single-pair shortest path, it requires a fixed destination too 21:07:59 <Samu> i wonder wether pathfinding could be multi-threaded, because apparently it already waits for the result 21:08:01 <nielsm> it's been a while since I looked at this 21:08:01 <andythenorth> so who's writing the dev blog post then? o_O 21:11:52 *** ToBeFree has joined #openttd 21:12:22 *** ToBeFree is now known as Guest13852 21:18:12 <Samu> looks like it can't 21:18:42 <nielsm> multithreaded pathfinding is problematic 21:19:30 <nielsm> you'll end up doing duplicate work if you try putting multiple threads to work on the same vehicle, and splitting up relatively short jobs like that is usually not efficient either 21:20:04 <nielsm> you can't pathfind multiple land vehicles in parallel, since the path of one can affect the path another one must choose, and then you end up with non-determinism 21:20:57 <nielsm> if you accept locking yourself out of ever having ships depend on each others' paths (like ships avoiding other ships) then you could pathfind multiple ships in parallel 21:21:04 <andythenorth> so daylength 1.5 seems about right 21:21:07 <andythenorth> so 18 months / year 21:21:21 <andythenorth> :P 21:21:38 <Samu> just increase the number of months 21:21:46 <Samu> or the number of days 21:21:48 <Samu> :p 21:22:14 <Samu> january will now have 90 days 21:22:18 <Samu> j/k 21:22:25 <nielsm> you could probably also run pathfinding of all land vehicles in parallel with pathfinding of all ships, i.e. two parallel threads, sine they should never interfere 21:22:32 <andythenorth> switch from RL dates to 'elapsed years' 21:23:21 <Samu> i still don't know how to make threads 21:23:51 <nielsm> but doing that would still mean having to split vehicle ticks up in pathfinding and "doing other things", since vehicle ticks also involve some of the station loading/unloading logic iirc, and you still want the order vehicles process loading/unloading in to be deterministic 21:24:08 <DorpsGek_III_> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] frosch123 approved pull request #7940: Add: [Doxygen] Add the current version of documentation in header https://git.io/JvUKc 21:25:05 <frosch123> i never know whether the "ENV=foo binary" syntax is proper shell 21:25:17 <frosch123> i always use "env ENV=foo binary" 21:26:23 <andythenorth> oof is it bedtime? 21:26:26 <andythenorth> today seems long :P 21:26:34 <Samu> with multiple docking points now 21:26:41 <Samu> it may interfere 21:26:45 <Samu> I dunnot 21:27:05 <nielsm> sleep sounds like a good plan 21:27:17 <Samu> rip multithreading opentttd 21:27:19 <nielsm> gn 21:28:36 <Samu> anyway back to my depth/pathfind tests 21:29:00 <Samu> gonna start taking notes 21:31:00 *** andythenorth has left #openttd 21:35:22 *** nielsm has quit IRC 21:38:12 *** Wolf01 has quit IRC 21:39:18 <Samu> oh :( it's actually worse than i thought 21:40:03 <Samu> searches more nodes with the different costs values per depth 21:40:16 <Samu> i expected it to search less 21:41:20 <Samu> well, it walks more tiles, so maybe it's expected? must think 21:46:44 <Samu> 57435 <-> 31768 unchanged 21:46:44 <Samu> 83024 <-> 56269 cheaper costs on deeper water 21:46:44 <Samu> 63820 <-> 38350 cheaper costs on shallower water 21:47:11 <Samu> going from A to B, then B to A, the number of search nodes 21:48:20 <Samu> I am disappointed with myself, I honestly expected it to search with less nodes 21:48:30 <Samu> search less 21:49:15 <Samu> especially disappointed with shallower water results 21:59:38 <DorpsGek_III_> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Eddi-z commented on pull request #7938: Feature: Setting for a year that repeats forever https://git.io/JvU6l 22:07:20 <TrueBrain> frosch123: they both work; with the letter, an extra process is started 22:07:27 <TrueBrain> not sure if there is much more difference besides that 22:07:41 <DorpsGek_III_> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain merged pull request #7940: Add: [Doxygen] Add the current version of documentation in header https://git.io/JvUoh 22:08:20 <DorpsGek_III_> [OpenTTD/CompileFarm] frosch123 approved pull request #41: Add: [release-docs] tell Doxygen about the version we are creating https://git.io/JvU60 22:08:37 <DorpsGek_III_> [OpenTTD/CompileFarm] TrueBrain merged pull request #41: Add: [release-docs] tell Doxygen about the version we are creating https://git.io/JvUKe 22:08:38 <DorpsGek_III_> [OpenTTD/CompileFarm] TrueBrain pushed 1 commits to master https://git.io/JvU6E 22:08:38 <DorpsGek_III_> - Add: [release-docs] tell Doxygen about the version we are creating (#41) (by TrueBrain) 22:08:51 <TrueBrain> cheers 22:10:49 *** Progman has quit IRC 22:15:23 *** Guest13852 has quit IRC 22:22:17 *** frosch123 has quit IRC 22:32:48 <DorpsGek_III_> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] esigra opened issue #7941: train pathfinder acts as if station exits had built-in signals https://git.io/JvU6p 23:01:51 *** supermop_work has quit IRC 23:10:31 *** ToBeFree has joined #openttd 23:10:54 *** ToBeFree is now known as Guest13857 23:11:04 *** snail_UES_ has joined #openttd 23:11:46 *** rtrdd has quit IRC 23:15:06 *** Samu has quit IRC 23:20:57 *** Guest13857 has quit IRC 23:30:18 *** nielsm has joined #openttd 23:34:18 *** HerzogDeXtEr1 has joined #openttd 23:38:50 *** ToBeCloud has joined #openttd 23:39:13 *** ToBeCloud is now known as Guest13858 23:39:18 *** HerzogDeXtEr2 has joined #openttd 23:40:10 *** Wormnest_ has joined #openttd 23:40:26 *** HerzogDeXtEr has quit IRC 23:41:20 *** Guest13858 is now known as ToBeFree 23:42:22 *** HerzogDeXtEr1 has quit IRC 23:46:53 *** Wormnest has quit IRC 23:49:53 *** ToBeFree has quit IRC