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00:01:22 *** Westie has quit IRC 00:04:11 <michi_cc> Well, somebody might care. But seeing the rather lacklustre response, I wouldn't bet on that. 00:07:42 <TrueBrain> Sounds like you are better of focusing on other issues :D 00:10:19 *** Gustavo6046 has quit IRC 00:10:35 *** Gustavo6046 has joined #openttd 00:39:33 *** Westie has joined #openttd 00:42:44 *** tejanos has joined #openttd 00:42:58 <tejanos> hi! oh wow so many people! 00:43:41 *** Progman has quit IRC 01:04:03 *** tejanos has quit IRC 01:41:56 *** HerzogDeXtEr has joined #openttd 02:54:18 *** Flygon has joined #openttd 03:33:38 *** debdog has joined #openttd 03:36:58 *** D-HUND has quit IRC 03:46:28 *** Wormnest has quit IRC 03:51:40 *** glx has quit IRC 03:52:02 *** Gustavo6046 has quit IRC 03:53:02 *** Gustavo6046 has joined #openttd 07:32:29 *** nielsm has joined #openttd 07:50:43 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd 07:55:24 *** HerzogDeXtEr has quit IRC 07:57:50 *** jottyfan has joined #openttd 08:00:13 *** jottyfan has quit IRC 08:11:52 <andythenorth> yo 08:14:32 *** sla_ro|master has joined #openttd 08:16:05 *** DorpsGek` has joined #openttd 08:16:05 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o DorpsGek` 08:16:05 *** DorpsGek is now known as Guest8823 08:16:05 *** DorpsGek` is now known as DorpsGek 08:19:10 *** Guest8823 has quit IRC 08:37:22 <andythenorth> such breakfast 08:41:33 <TrueBrain> NOM NOM NOM 08:44:50 * andythenorth reading https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/8403 08:44:53 <andythenorth> I had a crazy idea 08:46:12 <andythenorth> what if the economy part of the simulation was....just...CONTENT? 08:46:18 <andythenorth> nah....too mad? 08:46:27 <LordAro> not original, certain 08:46:53 <LordAro> ly 09:06:15 <andythenorth> busy day today 09:06:21 <andythenorth> got to clean algae off the fish tank 09:06:26 <andythenorth> get a haircut 09:06:29 <andythenorth> so much busy 09:12:43 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain opened pull request #8411: Fix: next 67 savegame versions are used in PatchPacks; skip them https://git.io/JLKxX 09:12:46 <TrueBrain> LordAro: do you have any issue with ^^ ? 09:12:56 <TrueBrain> I kinda disagree with your opinion on: let's ignore the problem :D Sorry :P 09:13:23 <TrueBrain> and it sounds super simple to me to avoid it :) 09:13:39 <TrueBrain> but, something something, haven't coded for OpenTTD in 10 years, something something .. :D 09:15:20 <TrueBrain> owh, and an older Spring 2013 savegame (version 201) hits an assert, crashing debug builds :D 09:17:51 <LordAro> idk, i guess? 09:18:22 <TrueBrain> what are you doubts about? 09:18:23 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain updated pull request #8411: Fix: next 67 savegame versions are used in PatchPacks; skip them https://git.io/JLKxX 09:18:38 <TrueBrain> (honest question to be honest; to me this sounds like a simple solution, but there is a 50/50 chance I am missing something :P) 09:19:04 *** Progman has joined #openttd 09:19:15 <LordAro> i don't think you're missing anything, i just don't think we should be handling data from such versions 09:19:27 <LordAro> it's like handling a save game from minecraft or whatever 09:20:00 <TrueBrain> we are now not handling the data :D 09:20:20 <TrueBrain> a minecraft savegame can't load either, with an error the format is not understood :) 09:20:54 <TrueBrain> and to be clear, it is the patchpacks that shouldn't have been so close to the real revision .. but hindsight is 20/20 :P 09:21:21 <LordAro> perhaps we could add a "modified" flag to the savegame version somehow 09:21:29 *** WormnestAndroid has quit IRC 09:21:34 <TrueBrain> JGR solves it nicely, just mask with 0x8000 09:21:36 <LordAro> which would (for us) only matter for 'M' versions 09:21:42 *** WormnestAndroid has joined #openttd 09:21:52 <TrueBrain> but okay, you are talking about solving it towards the future; which I am all in for 09:21:59 <TrueBrain> but we also have the here and now to solve :) 09:22:09 <LordAro> i guess it's probably fine 09:22:16 <LordAro> as you say, gonna take a while to get to 32k 09:22:41 <TrueBrain> I remember the days we thought we only had 255 versions .. that were .... interesting times :) 09:23:25 <andythenorth> hmm black keeps giving me cake 09:23:28 <andythenorth> cake is fine 09:23:59 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on issue #8116: Old patchpack savegame versions will soon overlap https://git.io/JfZsT 09:25:51 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on pull request #8411: Fix: next 67 savegame versions are used in PatchPacks; skip them https://git.io/JLKjo 09:26:18 <TrueBrain> LordAro: what JGRPP does is so much better: feature toggles 09:26:34 <TrueBrain> would kinda remove the need for versions at all, and makes it compatible with patchpacks etc 09:26:53 <TrueBrain> well, future patchpacks, ofc :P 09:27:08 <LordAro> yeah 09:28:05 <TrueBrain> so we have 2 PRs that add GS commands for industry; they claim they are complimentary to each other, so that is good .. 09:28:11 <andythenorth> hmm, a super opinionated black would re-order function params alphabetically 09:28:31 <andythenorth> (named args only) 09:30:25 <TrueBrain> that would be a horrible idea 09:30:34 <TrueBrain> there is often logic in the order of parameters :) 09:30:40 <TrueBrain> (and the alphabet is not one of them) 09:30:50 <TrueBrain> it should, however, order imports .. which it does not 09:34:40 <andythenorth> does the import order ever ever matter in python? 09:34:43 * andythenorth hopes not 09:35:28 * andythenorth hopes for black2: "now it writes your code" 09:35:38 <FLHerne> Yes 09:35:52 <FLHerne> If they really want to, modules can have whatever stupid side-effects they like on import 09:36:02 *** iSoSyS has joined #openttd 09:37:04 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on pull request #8115: GS methods to let company have exclusive access to the industry https://git.io/JL6va 09:38:27 <TrueBrain> andythenorth: in practice, you should never run into an issue when ordering imports :) In my 10 years with Python now, that has never been the case :) 09:38:35 <TrueBrain> and at my old jobs we enforced them being on alphabet 09:38:57 <TrueBrain> (as otherwise the next developer with OCD changes them into alphabet, creating diffs which are completely unneeded :P) 09:39:15 * andythenorth would be the OCD one 09:39:24 <andythenorth> 'incoming, I fixed your whitespace' /me 09:39:41 *** iSoSyS has quit IRC 09:39:54 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on pull request #8115: GS methods to let company have exclusive access to the industry https://git.io/JL6fW 09:39:55 <andythenorth> on my deathbed I can say 'well at least some of the html was indented sanely' 09:41:05 <TrueBrain> lot of the coding style I introduce in teams is to avoid silly conversations about "where this line should go"; just a waste of conversation :P 09:41:09 <TrueBrain> sorting imports is one of them :) 09:41:45 <FLHerne> I did run isort on nml just recently, need to add it to the tests 09:42:11 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro approved pull request #8411: Fix: next 67 savegame versions are used in PatchPacks; skip them https://git.io/JL6fX 09:42:34 <TrueBrain> I so hate when people say: "sure", like: this is going to blow up in your face, but you will find that out later :P 09:42:40 <LordAro> :p 09:42:50 <TrueBrain> going to wait for JGR, see if he sees a problem with it :) 09:42:59 <LordAro> aye 09:43:38 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] JGRennison commented on pull request #8411: Fix: next 67 savegame versions are used in PatchPacks; skip them https://git.io/JL6fF 09:43:52 <LordAro> as if on cue 09:44:12 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain merged pull request #8411: Fix: next 67 savegame versions are used in PatchPacks; skip them https://git.io/JLKxX 09:44:12 <TrueBrain> in that case :) 09:44:40 <TrueBrain> so now we can leave that horrible PatchPack savegame versions mess behind, and act like it doesn't exist :D 09:45:15 <TrueBrain> https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/7912 and https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/8115 .. I am very tempted to just add them together and merge it .. they look fine, code looks good .. functionality seems wanted .. I am just not sure it is a solution for long-term, as having economy callbacks would be better than these flags 09:45:41 <TrueBrain> but I guess that is what NewGRFs can do, and GSes can't 09:46:57 <andythenorth> I don't think there's any harm in extending GS 09:47:03 <andythenorth> I can't see us removing it 09:47:18 <TrueBrain> I was not even suggesting that :) 09:47:31 <andythenorth> \o/ 09:47:44 <TrueBrain> it is more, if we take this route, it is unlikely someone is going to try find another 09:47:51 <TrueBrain> I am trying to balance that :D 09:48:03 <LordAro> TrueBrain: seems reasonable to me 09:48:47 <TrueBrain> guess I just create a new PR which stacks these two together, with a rebase and some fixes :D 09:50:04 * andythenorth considers reimplementing GS as content :P 09:50:18 * LordAro considers reimplementing andythenorth as content 09:50:27 <TrueBrain> can I join in on that party? 09:50:31 <andythenorth> I am malcontent 09:51:25 <andythenorth> https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-l3TkP_oqsTw/TtIPbNBJa6I/AAAAAAAAEAc/C_f5pL4UpCQ/s400/turtlesallthewaydown.jpg 09:51:39 <andythenorth> it's all just a simulation right? 09:51:44 <andythenorth> and that sim is running in a sim? 10:01:16 <andythenorth> hmm slow compile is slow 10:01:23 <andythenorth> it's back to > 30s 10:01:36 * andythenorth seriously considers sharding the project into multiple grfs 10:02:44 <andythenorth> multi-grf container format for bananas? 10:04:29 <_dp_> TrueBrain, 7912 and 8115 both add a new network command, while that makes them (likely) to work together imo it would be better to merge it into one command 10:04:41 <TrueBrain> I am doing that as we speak :) 10:04:52 <_dp_> I even kinda prepared for it in mine with more general command (CmdSetIndustryFlags vs CmdSetIndustryFlags) 10:04:59 <TrueBrain> I noticed :) 10:05:12 <TrueBrain> I just need to figure out the bitmask for p1 :D 10:05:26 <_dp_> oh, ok) 10:05:35 <_dp_> I can do that too if you want 10:05:37 <TrueBrain> as you both took another approach there :) 10:05:44 <TrueBrain> appreciated, but almost there :P 10:06:00 <TrueBrain> sorry, didn't want to steal your work away from you :( 10:06:09 <_dp_> np 10:06:26 <_dp_> if you use mine as a base it should be trivial to integrate flags 10:06:35 <TrueBrain> it is 10:07:00 <TrueBrain> the main issue is, the other uses a bitmask, and you use 0/1 .. which is rather incompatible :) 10:07:06 <TrueBrain> but that is easily fixed :D 10:08:58 <TrueBrain> just how to document it, lol 10:09:01 <TrueBrain> eeeuuuhhmmmm 10:09:08 <_dp_> xD 10:11:45 *** urdh has quit IRC 10:13:00 <TrueBrain> and now the big trick .. how to test this :D 10:13:36 *** urdh has joined #openttd 10:14:14 <TrueBrain> src/lang/gaelic.txt:125: warning: String name 'STR_CARGO_PLURAL_CANDY' does not exist in master file 10:14:15 <TrueBrain> hmm 10:15:18 <TrueBrain> someone failed at a regex 10:15:22 <TrueBrain> and someone failed at review :P 10:16:03 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] ldpl commented on pull request #8115: GS methods to let company have exclusive access to the industry https://git.io/JL6LT 10:16:06 <TrueBrain> Xaroth! You failed :P Would you mind fixing pretty please? (before 1800 tonight) :) 10:17:21 <TrueBrain> why did the CI not pick this up, I wonder .. 10:17:45 <TrueBrain> because they are not being picked up by the GCC-matcher :D 10:17:49 <TrueBrain> well, that explains 10:25:43 *** dvim has joined #openttd 10:25:50 <_dp_> TrueBrain, I'll remove ->owner stuff from pr but with you working on it how should I do it, just force push as usual? 10:27:10 <TrueBrain> I already did :) 10:27:38 <TrueBrain> give me a few, and you can check if what I did is what you expect :) 10:27:45 <_dp_> oh, ok) 10:28:17 <TrueBrain> again, sorry for taking over the work :P It is just a nice way to get my hands a bit dirty :P 10:28:22 <_dp_> np 10:29:00 <_dp_> I'm totally fine with someone else doing all the work ;) 10:29:29 <TrueBrain> don't get used to it :P 10:30:03 <_dp_> xD 10:34:41 *** Samu has joined #openttd 10:35:00 <LordAro> TrueBrain: oh no 10:35:36 <TrueBrain> LordAro: we have a few hours to clean up that mess :P 10:35:41 <TrueBrain> just happy I noticed before eints hits :D 10:37:04 <TrueBrain> _dp_: https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/compare/master...TrueBrain:industry_gs?expand=1 <- preview of what I have done with both patches; let me know if I did something weird .. now I need to test it :D 10:37:15 <TrueBrain> which means remembering how to ... to write a GS :D 10:38:34 <TrueBrain> we used to put new AI functions in the regression 10:38:38 <TrueBrain> but I guess GS never made it there :D 10:38:55 <_dp_> you can take gs from my pr as a base 10:39:30 <TrueBrain> smart, tnx :D 10:39:34 <TrueBrain> totally forgot you attached one 10:41:30 <TrueBrain> I ... started in a year that has no engines 10:41:31 <TrueBrain> lol 10:45:09 <LordAro> TrueBrain: can you still remember how to write squirrel? :p 10:45:38 <TrueBrain> it appears I do 10:45:41 <TrueBrain> I am shocked, honestly 10:46:06 <TrueBrain> okay, this is interesting ... I opened the game, made a savegame, loaded it again: invalid chunk 10:46:08 <TrueBrain> eeeuuuhhhhh 10:46:48 <TrueBrain> seems to be a local issue 10:47:03 <TrueBrain> WSL sometimes seems to be flushing incorrectly, losing data 10:47:38 <TrueBrain> ah, no, nevermind .. I did something stupid 10:47:43 <TrueBrain> saved between the 2 PRs 10:47:51 <TrueBrain> which they both use the same savegame version ... they store different data 10:47:56 <TrueBrain> LALALALALAAAa, nothing happened :P 10:51:25 <_dp_> these shifts in docommand always look suspicious to me... (((uint8)owner) << 16) 10:51:41 <_dp_> and I know it's like that in my pr as well :p 10:51:42 <TrueBrain> its your code :P I just change 8 into 16 :) 10:53:00 <_dp_> it will probably even work fine because 16 is int or smth like that 10:53:39 <_dp_> just can't help but think of possible ub when I see this stuff 10:53:51 <_dp_> also (control_flags & ::INDCTL_MASK) << 8) 10:54:40 <_dp_> I mean, enums are likely ints but aren't exaclty guaranteed to be afaik 10:54:56 <andythenorth> hmm 'writing the changelog' as form of QA 10:55:05 <andythenorth> found one bug already because I had to list detailed changes 10:55:43 <TrueBrain> GetLastProductionYear is a weird function to me 10:55:44 <_dp_> and it's all over the openttd code 10:55:47 <TrueBrain> but okay, I am sure there was a reason for that 10:56:36 <TrueBrain> the description suggests it only changes value if there was someone asking for the cargo 10:56:44 <TrueBrain> it is not .. just all output industries go up by 1 year every yerar 10:57:16 <TrueBrain> and GetCargoLastAcceptedDate can return "0", which also feels a bit off 10:59:07 <andythenorth> this is my new favourite commit message https://github.com/andythenorth/iron-horse/commit/ae469d60db92e652eb01cb67a6b3e735afa3ceed#diff-25a6634263c1b1f6fc4697a04e2b9904ea4b042a89af59dc93ec1f5d44848a26 10:59:12 <andythenorth> tpyo! 11:02:30 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick commented on pull request #8403: Feature: Reworked recessions setting to allow durations up to 10 years https://git.io/JL6Gn 11:03:33 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] James103 commented on issue #8116: Old patchpack savegame versions will soon overlap https://git.io/JfZsT 11:04:15 <TrueBrain> well, found a bug during testing, I like that :) 11:05:27 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on issue #8116: Old patchpack savegame versions will soon overlap https://git.io/JfZsT 11:05:58 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] JGRennison commented on issue #8116: Old patchpack savegame versions will soon overlap https://git.io/JfZsT 11:07:30 <TrueBrain> _dp_: do you happen to know why GetLastProductionYear was added? 11:07:46 <_dp_> nope 11:07:59 <TrueBrain> is nielsm around? :) (I cannot see who is online on IRC :P) 11:08:06 <_dp_> my guess is just to expose some production-related vars 11:08:13 <TrueBrain> the var is really weird 11:08:20 <TrueBrain> it just basically outputs the current year :D 11:08:46 <_dp_> even for unserved indudstries?? 11:08:54 <TrueBrain> especially for those 11:09:00 <_dp_> %) 11:09:19 <TrueBrain> I have all industries reporting me the current year, as far as I can tell :P 11:09:56 <_dp_> that's weird, I don't see in a code why would it do that 11:10:15 <LordAro> isn't it used for the graphs? 11:10:38 <TrueBrain> it is used to consider if an industry should close, as far as I can tell 11:10:47 <_dp_> it's used for production changes and ind closures 11:11:30 <TrueBrain> code suggests only transported cargo should change the year 11:11:37 <_dp_> yep 11:11:40 <TrueBrain> they are all btw initialized on the year they are created 11:11:45 <TrueBrain> which is also a bit surprising :) 11:11:46 <_dp_> and if it's always current nothing will ever close ;) 11:11:51 <TrueBrain> even for industries that do not produce anything :P 11:12:11 <_dp_> that's ok, it's a close protection for new industries 11:12:23 <TrueBrain> but reading it as GS is a bit weird 11:12:42 <_dp_> yeah, those vars are kinda internal 11:13:06 <TrueBrain> let me see if this only happens for the first year or something 11:13:21 <TrueBrain> nope .. 1982, 20+ industries change to 1982 too 11:13:22 <TrueBrain> :D 11:13:24 <TrueBrain> this is weird :P 11:14:09 <_dp_> TrueBrain, are those secondary industries? 11:14:13 <TrueBrain> code suggests it shouldn't .. 11:14:21 <TrueBrain> hmm, possible, I guess 11:14:24 <TrueBrain> how to check easily .. 11:14:32 <_dp_> primary industries produce stuff so it should be updated for them afaict 11:15:06 <TrueBrain> ah, yes, those are primary 11:15:11 <TrueBrain> so they always produce 11:15:12 <TrueBrain> gotcha 11:15:16 <TrueBrain> bit counterintuative 11:15:51 <TrueBrain> but okay, it is not wrong 11:15:55 <TrueBrain> let's not try to fix the world in 1 day :) 11:16:00 <TrueBrain> _dp_: tnx, that was my missing link :) 11:18:34 <TrueBrain> let's see if I did not fuck this up .. 11:18:39 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain updated pull request #7912: Feature: Disallow industry production changes from GS https://git.io/Jej1Z 11:19:38 <_dp_> idk, they aren't wrong but they expose weird internals for no apparent reason 11:20:01 <TrueBrain> LordAro: if you have some time, would you be so kind to review ^^ ? I made minor changes, but enough that I would like a second opinion :) 11:20:02 <_dp_> I can't think of any use for those functions but I can see it becoming a bit of a problem if internals change 11:20:53 <TrueBrain> _dp_: I would guess the idea is that you can mimic what the game is doing, so if production year is 5 years in the past, close the industry 11:21:41 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick commented on pull request #8403: Feature: Reworked recessions setting to allow durations up to 10 years https://git.io/JL6cK 11:21:53 <_dp_> oh, so like switch it to 10? set flags to no close and do it in gs if it's 10 11:21:55 <TrueBrain> we output more of these internal values via GS; cannot really think of a harm atm 11:21:56 <_dp_> makes sense I guess 11:22:07 <TrueBrain> exactly 11:23:39 <_dp_> well, pontential harm is the usual as it makes hard to change internal mechanic when some api locks it in 11:23:44 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain updated pull request #8115: GS methods to let company have exclusive access to the industry https://git.io/JfZt7 11:24:00 <_dp_> though I guess these can be replicated even if they become unused internally so shouldn't matter much 11:24:17 <TrueBrain> I pushed both commits in your branch 11:24:26 <TrueBrain> we have to merge one before the other, ofc :) 11:24:27 <andythenorth> GetLastProductionYear is...oh you figured it out :P 11:25:20 <TrueBrain> yes, in contrary to OpenTTD, the conversation doesn't pause if you leave :P 11:25:21 <TrueBrain> :D <3 11:27:21 <andythenorth> so did frosch ship FML yet? 11:31:57 <TrueBrain> so that is 2 more PRs .. :) 11:41:01 <andythenorth> \o/ 11:55:24 <_dp_> lol https://i.imgur.com/veVogcw.png 11:56:22 <_dp_> was just thinking about making pr to disable it yesterday 11:57:26 <TrueBrain> no clue what I am looking at :P 11:58:32 <andythenorth> #discord :P 11:58:44 <TrueBrain> I see words, but I cannot translate them into sanity 11:58:46 <andythenorth> it's a request for town rules to be content :P 11:58:47 <_dp_> new players first reaction to local authorities? :p 11:58:58 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain opened pull request #8412: Fix 86e08aa8: STR_CARGO_PLURAL_CANDY with cases was not renamed https://git.io/JL6Rz 11:59:32 <_dp_> sanity and local authorities don't mix well :p 11:59:38 <_dp_> and don't tell me it's realistic :p 11:59:55 <TrueBrain> I wasn't considering that, but now you mention it ...... :P 12:00:03 * andythenorth must to hair cut 12:00:11 <andythenorth> "for the livestream" 12:00:13 <andythenorth> and also because 12:00:17 <andythenorth> I can't see 12:00:22 <TrueBrain> I can't get a haircut :P 12:00:26 <TrueBrain> like .. shit closed 12:00:28 <LordAro> TrueBrain: need to remove a space to preserve alignment 12:00:34 <andythenorth> I AM IN TIER 2 12:00:36 <andythenorth> freedom 12:00:37 * andythenorth BIAB 12:00:38 <TrueBrain> LordAro: I spotted that too yes ... stupid space-alignment shit :P 12:00:38 *** andythenorth has quit IRC 12:00:55 <TrueBrain> that sed is a lot more complex :D 12:01:05 <LordAro> ^^ 12:02:25 <LordAro> let's see... s/STR_..CANDY(\.[a-z]+) /STR_..SWEETS/ ? 12:03:07 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain updated pull request #8412: Fix 86e08aa8: STR_CARGO_PLURAL_CANDY with cases was not renamed https://git.io/JL6Rz 12:03:15 <TrueBrain> sed -r -i 's/_CANDY.([a-z]) /_SWEETS./' src/lang/.txt 12:03:19 <TrueBrain> `sed -r -i 's/_CANDY\.([a-z]*) /_SWEETS./' src/lang/*.txt` 12:03:21 <TrueBrain> is what I used 12:03:25 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro approved pull request #8412: Fix 86e08aa8: STR_CARGO_PLURAL_CANDY with cases was not renamed https://git.io/JL60g 12:03:34 <LordAro> basically the same :) 12:04:04 <TrueBrain> I always have to fight with sed to get it in a mode that accepts 12:04:09 <TrueBrain> can never remember .. -r .. -e ... nothing .. 12:05:44 <TrueBrain> btw, about the other PR, I am mostly curious if this is okay: https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/8115/files#diff-ce2189a945a85c2aec8e107e2845ab769d2f107f4a22287366a972caf7d796aeR2078 12:07:24 <_dp_> TrueBrain, you mean CmdIndustryCtrl? looks fine to me 12:12:51 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain merged pull request #8412: Fix 86e08aa8: STR_CARGO_PLURAL_CANDY with cases was not renamed https://git.io/JL6Rz 12:13:21 <TrueBrain> was hoping LordAro could give that a quick look too :) 12:15:02 *** HerzogDeXtEr has joined #openttd 12:21:16 <Samu> TrueBrain, this comment style needs fixing, it's from a PR about grouping by shared orders: https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/commit/4af1acfe926db39965f3cff2a41ecf0da32b4137#diff-de05b496b75576b725425212e2b431ddddd38bdfcc724c2042ccf28a356744aeR743-R746 12:23:47 <TrueBrain> guess you will have to find a way to make your OCD deal with that now :) 12:33:24 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Gymnasiast commented on issue #6922: Replace ICU ParagraphLayout with something else? https://git.io/JvfQ3 12:34:29 <_dp_> eh, now I'm having savegame issues on the current master... 12:34:34 <_dp_> can't open the game I just saved 12:34:52 <TrueBrain> _dp_: did you save with a custom build too? :D 12:35:08 <LordAro> ...the current savegame version wasn't bumped past the patchpack block, was it? 12:35:23 <TrueBrain> LordAro: that uses the latest enum value, doesn't it? 12:36:20 <TrueBrain> it does, pfew :) 12:36:35 <LordAro> hmm, yes 12:36:42 <TrueBrain> hmm, there is one boo-boo there, I guess 12:36:45 <TrueBrain> it is MAX_VERSION - 1 12:37:08 <TrueBrain> and 286 should -not- be used 12:37:16 <TrueBrain> well, with the other 2 PRs that will be fixed, so it is fine, I guess 12:37:20 <TrueBrain> I just need to merge them today :D 12:37:27 <LordAro> lol. 12:37:45 <TrueBrain> so yes, _dp_ , you cannot load a savegame created with current master atm :D 12:38:10 <TrueBrain> so if LordAro can tell me that function looks okay, I will merge them in :D :P 12:38:17 <TrueBrain> this is silly :D 12:38:32 <_dp_> oh well, I'll save it in 10.3 I guess 12:38:50 <TrueBrain> alternative, I can make a PR that bumps the version to 287 12:40:11 * _dp_ watching trees grow 12:40:18 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro commented on pull request #7912: Feature: Disallow industry production changes from GS https://git.io/JL6Vw 12:40:35 <LordAro> wait hang on, which one should i be reviewing? they appear to be identical 12:40:39 <LordAro> almost 12:40:53 <TrueBrain> one PR has the other ocmmit, yes 12:41:00 <TrueBrain> and I was mostly curious about https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/8115/files#diff-ce2189a945a85c2aec8e107e2845ab769d2f107f4a22287366a972caf7d796aeR2078 12:41:03 <TrueBrain> if that function is okay 12:41:04 <LordAro> ah yes 12:43:31 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro approved pull request #8115: GS methods to let company have exclusive access to the industry https://git.io/JL6wJ 12:43:49 <TrueBrain> cheers 12:43:54 <TrueBrain> will check for that initialize zero part 12:44:36 <LordAro> unless the saveload code is somehow initialising the Industry object without calling the constructor (i wouldn't put it past it...), it's setting those variables already 12:45:18 <TrueBrain> I see no reason why it wouldn't have 12:45:24 <TrueBrain> but let me add an assert, and test it :D 12:47:09 <TrueBrain> right, where is that savegame archive of yours .. 12:47:55 <TrueBrain> owh, title screens only .. I have those too :P 12:49:50 <TrueBrain> https://www.transporttycoon.net/download_savedgames <- you find cool stuff when searching for other stuff :D 12:53:15 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain updated pull request #7912: Feature: Disallow industry production changes from GS https://git.io/Jej1Z 12:53:41 <TrueBrain> removing code is surprisingly easy :D 13:03:33 <TrueBrain> lol, you still cannot remove a server from the serverlist via the GUI? 13:03:45 <TrueBrain> sometimes I am surprised that some bugs are not fixed over the years :D 13:05:56 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on pull request #7912: Feature: Disallow industry production changes from GS https://git.io/JL663 13:06:57 *** glx has joined #openttd 13:06:57 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v glx 13:07:33 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain approved pull request #7912: Feature: Disallow industry production changes from GS https://git.io/JL66z 13:11:29 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd 13:12:01 <TrueBrain> and how is your hair? 13:15:48 <_dp_> case LT_ARCTIC: TileLoopTreesAlps(tile); break; 13:15:53 <_dp_> Alps? in arctic? :p 13:16:19 <TrueBrain> hmm ... not being able to fast-forward in MP is annoying if you want to test some things :P 13:16:27 <TrueBrain> how often does this link graph scheduler run ... 13:16:56 <_dp_> you can probably safely patch it a bit to enable 13:17:22 <andythenorth> hair? what hair? 13:17:26 * andythenorth has gone short 13:20:12 <andythenorth> when I am king 13:20:16 <andythenorth> the first thing against the wall 13:20:24 <andythenorth> will be OpenTTD trees 13:21:06 <LordAro> TrueBrain: which one do you want me to merge? :p 13:21:14 <TrueBrain> LordAro: neither :D 13:21:36 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain merged pull request #7912: Feature: Disallow industry production changes from GS https://git.io/Jej1Z 13:22:45 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain dismissed a review for pull request #8115: GS methods to let company have exclusive access to the industry https://git.io/JL6wJ 13:22:46 <TrueBrain> as I want to do it properly ... ^^ :) 13:22:49 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain updated pull request #8115: GS methods to let company have exclusive access to the industry https://git.io/JfZt7 13:23:14 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain approved pull request #8115: GS methods to let company have exclusive access to the industry https://git.io/JL61R 13:23:20 <TrueBrain> tnx LordAro ! 13:23:57 <TrueBrain> now I need to figure out how this linkgraph stuff works in multiplayer :P 13:25:54 <LordAro> :) 13:29:30 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] andythenorth commented on pull request #8403: Feature: Reworked recessions setting to allow durations up to 10 years https://git.io/JL6DT 13:29:52 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain merged pull request #8115: GS methods to let company have exclusive access to the industry https://git.io/JfZt7 13:30:00 <TrueBrain> right, that solves the saveload issue for now :) 13:31:20 * andythenorth wavey hands, some kind of per-region 'economy health' var 13:31:35 <andythenorth> Railroad Tycoon would also dump payment rates in a recession, do we do that currently? 13:31:38 <andythenorth> or just production? 13:31:40 * andythenorth learns 13:32:05 <andythenorth> wiki says we just do cargo production 13:34:14 * andythenorth wonders if cb39 is used by anybody ever? 13:34:23 <andythenorth> https://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/Callbacks#Custom_profit_calculation_for_cargoes_.2839.29 13:35:20 <andythenorth> I can't find documentation for which vars it would have in scope, except var 18 13:36:14 * andythenorth basically grumpy that we can't make Dope Wars in OpenTTD currently https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drugwars 13:37:43 <TrueBrain> okay, linkgraph is runnng, it just doesn't need to join in multiplayer .. eeuuhh .. how to force that :P 13:44:27 *** Artea has quit IRC 13:48:58 *** Artea has joined #openttd 13:50:13 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] ldpl opened pull request #8413: Fix: Don't lower tree density if spreading is not enabled https://git.io/JL6H9 13:50:31 <TrueBrain> STOP MAKING NEW PRS! Ffs :P 13:50:31 <TrueBrain> :D 13:51:09 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain updated pull request #7081: Change: [Linkgraph] Pause the game when linkgraph jobs lag (#6470) https://git.io/fh2Pg 13:52:10 *** Artea has quit IRC 13:52:58 <_dp_> TrueBrain, ok, ok, I'll make it a draft :p 13:52:58 <LordAro> :D 13:53:13 <andythenorth> 'make trees great again' 13:53:25 <andythenorth> eh it's only a bit more work to move them to newgrf _dp_ :P 13:53:30 <andythenorth> like 2 lines or something, right? 13:53:39 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain approved pull request #7081: Change: [Linkgraph] Pause the game when linkgraph jobs lag (#6470) https://git.io/JL6Q9 13:53:54 *** iSoSyS has joined #openttd 13:53:56 <_dp_> andythenorth, well, I have t(h)ree prs planned 13:54:03 <_dp_> andythenorth, and moving to newgrf would be 4th :p 13:54:20 * andythenorth hopes for christmas trees grf 13:54:32 <andythenorth> also seasons 13:54:39 <Samu> I discovered an issue with these new CMake builds: 'Openttd.exe' and 'Openttd.exe (Install)' 13:54:42 <andythenorth> we don't have weather, but we could have autumn 13:54:53 <_dp_> seasons don't rly fit openttd imo 13:54:57 <_dp_> unless they're permanent 13:55:01 <andythenorth> shrug 13:55:03 <andythenorth> if it's content... 13:55:04 <Samu> the 'Openttd.exe' doesn't create AI/GS API compatibility files 13:55:09 <_dp_> a bit like day/night just slover 13:55:14 <Samu> some AIs will fail to start 13:55:19 <andythenorth> speedruns with hacked grfs don't fit openttd imho :) 13:55:25 <andythenorth> but they're lolz, and there's a group who like it 13:55:26 <glx> Samu: known 13:55:28 <Samu> I have to test them with 'Openttd.exe (Install)' 13:55:33 <Samu> ah, ok 13:55:47 <TrueBrain> _dp_: can you explain to me how your PR fixes the issue? 13:55:56 <andythenorth> seasons definitely don't work for farm production, it's weird to do _that_ 13:56:00 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro commented on pull request #8413: Fix: Don't lower tree density if spreading is not enabled https://git.io/JL67l 13:56:03 <TrueBrain> and you are missing a space before } in else 13:56:14 <_dp_> TrueBrain, it's wrong, ignore it for now 13:56:17 <LordAro> an extra one before the first if as well 13:56:39 <TrueBrain> so you made 2 devs review a PR that is wrong?! OMG! :P 13:56:41 <TrueBrain> the wasted time :D 13:56:52 <_dp_> TrueBrain, I made it a draft :p 13:57:24 <_dp_> I realised the mistake right when I pressed the "create" button xD 13:57:31 <TrueBrain> :D Too sloowwww :P 13:58:41 <_dp_> fwiw it now messes up sparse forests 13:58:52 <Samu> by the way, how would AIs know an industry is exclusive to someone else? 14:00:25 <Samu> or even a player 14:01:06 <_dp_> that's gs stuff, ai's aren't expected to deal with that 14:01:15 <_dp_> and gs is supposed to tell player somehow 14:01:23 <FLHerne> That's not really an answer :p 14:01:23 *** Artea has joined #openttd 14:02:30 <_dp_> FLHerne, GetExclusiveSupplier should be available for ai's 14:02:34 <_dp_> if they really want 14:02:49 *** Artea has joined #openttd 14:02:54 <_dp_> and GetExclusiveConsumer 14:02:59 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on pull request #7286: Add #2155: newheightmapgame command https://git.io/JL659 14:03:54 <TrueBrain> a patch in a patch in a patch 14:03:59 <TrueBrain> that became really difficult to review :P 14:04:24 <andythenorth> somebody made another video about FIRS Steeltown! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5zwgI-pQ6kE 14:12:38 <Samu> Company A has exclusive supplier, Company B bought exclusive transport rights in town. Neither company A or B get cargo now :p 14:14:11 <andythenorth> https://i.gifer.com/12wz.mp4 14:14:13 <Samu> 0% transported, industry will close 14:14:16 <Samu> gg! 14:16:22 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] JGRennison commented on pull request #7081: Change: [Linkgraph] Pause the game when linkgraph jobs lag (#6470) https://git.io/JL6b7 14:18:02 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain merged pull request #7081: Change: [Linkgraph] Pause the game when linkgraph jobs lag (#6470) https://git.io/fh2Pg 14:18:31 <TrueBrain> that moment you try to rebase a year old PR, to find out that is not easy :D 14:22:11 <_dp_> does 6470 only affect cargodist? 14:23:35 <_dp_> or should I say 7081 14:23:53 *** frosch123 has joined #openttd 14:24:04 <TrueBrain> I have no clue what the linkgraph does, honestly :) 14:24:31 <andythenorth> let's find out! 14:24:32 * andythenorth looks 14:25:33 <andythenorth> is linkgraph the actual cargo flow graph, or is it just the one displayed to player? 14:28:17 <_dp_> also LinkGraphSchedule::SPAWN_JOIN_TICK - 2 looks fishy 14:28:33 <_dp_> in general network commands aren't guaranteed to execute in one tick 14:28:43 <_dp_> not sure if that breaks anything here though 14:28:51 <glx> <TrueBrain> that moment you try to rebase a year old PR, to find out that is not easy :D <-- if it adds files it can be fun with CMake inclusion :) 14:29:17 <_dp_> but still depending on timing of networks commands doesn't seem to be a good idea 14:30:03 <andythenorth> 'what could go wrong?' :P https://www.reddit.com/r/openttd/comments/ki5gak/need_a_network_ip_address_ban/ 14:30:16 <andythenorth> banning a whole network subrange? 14:31:06 <_dp_> I'm more amused by the fact that it was reddit server mod who made that post 14:32:19 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/team] frosch123 commented on issue #110: [ar_EG] Translator access request https://git.io/JLoeh 14:32:38 <Samu> andythenorth, recessions setting name is "economy" 14:32:49 <andythenorth> ? :) 14:32:59 <Samu> yeah, i don't know why it's named like that 14:33:55 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] ldpl updated pull request #8413: Fix: Don't lower tree density if spreading is not enabled https://git.io/JL6H9 14:34:16 <andythenorth> I mean '?' why do I need to know that? :) 14:34:33 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/team] frosch123 commented on issue #109: [es_ES] Translator access request https://git.io/JLrjZ 14:34:48 <andythenorth> oh we already have a recessions setting? 14:34:55 <andythenorth> it's not just determined by the economy? 14:34:56 <andythenorth> lol 14:35:00 * andythenorth never knew 14:35:05 <andythenorth> how does FIRS handle that? 14:35:21 <andythenorth> some of these concepts need deleting 14:35:25 <Samu> it doesn't combine with the economy setting, it is the economy setting! 14:35:40 <andythenorth> lol 14:35:48 <andythenorth> what is the economy setting called then? 14:36:05 <Samu> there's a economy type, simply named "type" 14:36:10 <frosch123> "recession" is basically a disaster 14:36:13 <andythenorth> super 14:36:20 <frosch123> your industry does not notice it 14:36:24 <andythenorth> I thought smooth economy prevented recessions :) 14:36:36 <andythenorth> one day I learn OpenTTD 14:36:39 <frosch123> it's just an yeti that eats 50% of all cargo before it arrives at your station 14:36:48 <andythenorth> discord players make me feel like I know nothing :) 14:36:54 <Samu> yes, smooth, frozen and original is part of the economy type setting, named "type" 14:38:10 <_dp_> Samu, it's named "economy.type", just "type" is just a shorthand gs/ai stuff accepts 14:38:28 <andythenorth> How OpenTTD settings look to me :D https://www.synthesizers.com/learn/patchanywhere_500.jpg 14:39:14 <Samu> ah, recessions is named "difficulty.economy" then 14:39:26 <andythenorth> how discord players play OpenTTD https://i.pinimg.com/originals/28/0a/66/280a668fbf57570147068fa381d0e768.jpg 14:40:19 <andythenorth> how andythenorth plays OpenTTD :P https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRs77Jb6XSddysNlwQToOtymte-II5c7iDUnlzqtRb8OXEqfJAM1kS8NS34Pi5CcNWUf7qfxXvJ&usqp=CAc 14:42:59 <_dp_> andythenorth, https://i.imgur.com/E4VZvuE.png :p 14:43:10 <andythenorth> nice 14:43:31 <Timberwolf> How Timberwolf plays OpenTTD :) https://cdn2.lamag.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/6/2020/12/dumpster-100soft-mccarty-closeup1-1068x712.jpg 14:43:41 <andythenorth> also WP 14:44:09 <frosch123> TrueBrain: nielsm: https://wiki.openttd.org/en/Development/NewGRF/Specification%20Status <- we have a wiki page to help tool maintainers track newgrf spec additions 14:44:49 <frosch123> if you add stuff there, it is not necessary that you edit specs wikis, PR nml and more your self :) 14:45:36 <andythenorth> if nml wiki was in truewiki 14:45:53 <andythenorth> could nml PRs include a docs patch? :P 14:46:59 <FLHerne> Only if the wiki data lived in the nml git repo 14:47:06 <glx> frosch123: about scope and optimisation, I fear adding an extra arg to reduce() will be the only option 14:47:34 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] ldpl commented on pull request #8413: Fix: Don't lower tree density if spreading is not enabled https://git.io/JLiv8 14:47:56 <frosch123> glx: option 2 does not work? adding the scope to the variable in the ast appeared nicer yesterday 14:48:49 <glx> ah maybe, didn't look in this direction 14:49:02 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] ldpl updated pull request #8413: Fix: Don't lower tree density if spreading is not enabled https://git.io/JL6H9 14:49:33 * _dp_ hopes nobody saw that extra space xD 14:51:14 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/nml] frosch123 approved pull request #176: Add constants introduced in OpenTTD/OpenTTD#8392. https://git.io/JLifc 14:52:13 <TrueBrain> frosch123: I guess you mean to say here that the 0x47 "ctlflags" of industry was not in the specs yet? 14:52:55 <frosch123> TrueBrain: you solved the riddle :) 14:53:14 <TrueBrain> frosch123: ah .. I expected it was already 14:54:03 <frosch123> pretty sure there are more addition in ottd meanwhile, who forgot to add stuff to specs and nml 14:55:02 <frosch123> for some reason people forget to communicate stuff after PR merge. so noone uses their additions 14:56:09 <TrueBrain> well, I added a line 14:57:59 <TrueBrain> _dp_: also LinkGraphSchedule::SPAWN_JOIN_TICK - 2 looks fishy <- you are right, that "2" is a configuration setting 14:58:12 <TrueBrain> strictly seen, one could run a multiplayer server where ticks are delayed with more than 1 14:58:17 <andythenorth> GS vehicle availability? 14:58:24 <TrueBrain> it was initially meant to tune multiplayer ... we got it right first time round, as it turned out 14:58:25 * andythenorth looks 14:59:16 <FLHerne> frosch123: If someone was using say {UNPRINT} in a language file and didn't want to change it, would just typing A in the string instead work? 14:59:21 <FLHerne> (I think so) 15:00:11 <_dp_> TrueBrain, it's not just about the value, I don't think relying on any kind of timing of network commands at all is the right approach 15:00:15 <frosch123> FLHerne: pretty sure you have to use the unicode variant 15:00:29 <_dp_> like, there are callbacks if something needs to be ececuted after a certain command 15:00:36 <frosch123> and since the parameter will be invalid unicode in any case, it probably won't work either 15:00:38 <TrueBrain> _dp_: OpenTTD is in lockstep (server vs client), so I don't see a problem there? 15:01:24 <TrueBrain> if you do a DoCommandP on tick N, you are guaranteed it is executed on N + 1 for server + clients 15:01:48 <_dp_> TrueBrain, it may be right for server commands but definitely not client ones 15:01:58 <_dp_> clients are rate limited 15:01:59 <TrueBrain> this is the server executing the command 15:02:07 <TrueBrain> the server prepares a frame full of commands 15:02:19 <_dp_> I know, that's why I'm saying it will probably work 15:02:28 <TrueBrain> isn't it guaranteed to work? :) 15:02:29 <_dp_> just not the good approach imo 15:02:48 <TrueBrain> if you have alternatives, I am happy to hear; but everything we do here is "just in time" concept :) 15:02:57 <frosch123> TrueBrain: client commands are queued on the server, and can be delayed a lot 15:03:04 <_dp_> I didn't study that pr long enough to say it's guaranteed :p 15:03:04 <TrueBrain> client commands, yes :) 15:03:10 <TrueBrain> but this is not a client command ;) 15:03:12 <FLHerne> frosch123: There's a stupid hack in the NFO specs for invalid unicode 15:03:35 <frosch123> FLHerne: yes, but i would expect nml to bail on invalid unicode in langfiles 15:04:26 *** jottyfan has joined #openttd 15:04:31 <FLHerne> I meant literally "A" in the string 15:04:47 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick left a comment on commit: Feature: Set exclusive access to industry from GS (#8115) https://git.io/JLiTO 15:04:48 <_dp_> that whole +1 tick thing is kinda weird btw 15:04:56 <_dp_> makes a lot of problem for gamescripts and stuff 15:05:01 <frosch123> FLHerne: nml interprets "\" in langfiles? :o 15:05:03 <TrueBrain> _dp_: you mean of the network itself? 15:05:07 <FLHerne> ...do we even have any tests for this? 15:05:19 <_dp_> TrueBrain, it's not network as that happens locally on the server 15:05:29 <TrueBrain> I meant: you meant for networking? 15:05:35 <TrueBrain> that every command is executed a frame later? 15:05:58 <FLHerne> No of course we don't 15:06:00 <_dp_> no, just for gamescript logic, they can't execute more than 1 command/tick 15:06:03 <_dp_> or mb even 2 ticks 15:06:23 <_dp_> so it takes eternity to update company goals for examply 15:06:33 <TrueBrain> yeah, your sentence left some room for interpretation, hence my question ;) 15:06:46 <TrueBrain> GSes are heavily rate limited yes 15:07:18 <TrueBrain> (well, AIs are too btw) 15:08:05 <_dp_> if I wasn't able to spam commands with a patch I probably would've got rid of that +1 delay altogether by now 15:09:26 <_dp_> but just having a bit of async is a minor annoyance for me right noow 15:10:00 <TrueBrain> if I remember correctly, single player is delayed with +1, as multiplayer is always delayed with +1 15:10:09 <TrueBrain> and to avoid people testing their GS on SP, to find out it crashes and burns on MP 15:10:12 <TrueBrain> stuff is delayed :) 15:10:35 <TrueBrain> ha, I was right too, w00p! 15:10:41 <TrueBrain> 10 year old knowledge ftw :P 15:10:41 <_dp_> TrueBrain, yeah, there is something like that there... 15:11:15 <TrueBrain> for AIs it made sense: AIs should calm down in the rate they build stuff etc 15:11:21 <TrueBrain> it makes for a more .. fair, feel 15:11:25 <TrueBrain> for GS, it is a bit of a different story 15:11:30 <_dp_> though it should probably mention gs testing in comments as those didn't make any sense to me last time I read them 15:11:36 <TrueBrain> but .. GS is just a small modification on AI, because we could :P 15:11:44 <andythenorth> it was a good experiment 15:11:55 <TrueBrain> _dp_: that sentence makes no sense to me :D Sorry, what did you mean? 15:12:01 <TrueBrain> "gs testing"? 15:12:31 <_dp_> "and to avoid people testing their GS on SP, to find out it crashes and burns on MP" - this makes sense to me as a reason for delay 15:12:40 <_dp_> whatever is in the comment near that delay doesn't :p 15:12:51 <TrueBrain> `/* Suspend the script player for 1+ ticks, so it simulates multiplayer. This both avoids confusion when a developer launched his script in a multiplayer game, but also gives time for the GUI and human player to interact with the game. */` 15:13:11 <TrueBrain> seems to say the same to me :D 15:13:17 <FLHerne> frosch123: I tried it, the answer is 'yes' 15:13:30 <_dp_> TrueBrain, hm, yeah, not sure what was I looking at then 15:13:43 <_dp_> something about "fairness" for client on serevr 15:13:47 <_dp_> *for player 15:13:48 <TrueBrain> _dp_: it is difficult code to understand, I know .. and writing comments is hard when you are neck deep in it :) 15:14:03 <frosch123> FLHerne: i would consider that a bug :) 15:14:15 <Samu> speaking of network tick delays, "More than max_no_competitors could be created in network games" the PR that got derailed :( 15:15:17 <TrueBrain> _dp_: but I think the more we see how people use GS, the more it becomes clear the framework doesn't cut it sufficiently. For example, not having callbacks makes it an event-based system, which feels unfit for the purposes people use GSes 15:15:51 <_dp_> found it: https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/blob/master/src/network/network_command.cpp#L151 15:16:20 <TrueBrain> sounds like a very clear comment to me too, sorry :P 15:16:29 <FLHerne> frosch123: It doesn't seem to be documented :-/ 15:16:51 <Samu> there can be 2 tick delays, I know they can happen 15:17:18 <FLHerne> frosch123: But anyway, in case of "{UNPRINT} is deprecated, consider using ... instead.", what should '...' be? 15:17:34 <FLHerne> Or just "... is deprecated, stop doing stupid things?" 15:18:01 <FLHerne> "is deprecated without a direct replacement." ? 15:18:30 <TrueBrain> _dp_: no clue what more to add to such comment to make it more clear :D But it does require you to know how the whole server/client model works for OpenTTD, that is very true :) 15:18:33 <_dp_> TrueBrain, I may be wrong but I think that also delays gs commands which has nothing to do with fairness 15:19:35 <TrueBrain> not sure if it matters, one way or the other 15:19:43 <TrueBrain> the GS commands will always be delayed till the next frame 15:19:46 <TrueBrain> as otherwise, desyncs 15:19:54 <_dp_> also 1 tick "advantage" in openttd is kinda laughable anyway :p 15:19:55 <TrueBrain> if it is +1 or +2 .. :) 15:20:06 <supermop_Home> andythenorth how far apart should stations be for luxury emus? 15:20:22 <andythenorth> supermop_Home I'd place them in towns :P 15:20:37 <TrueBrain> _dp_: with a frame_freq of 0, you are correct 15:20:46 <TrueBrain> but initially, it was considered that frame_freq could be as high as 20 15:20:52 <TrueBrain> (and we had servers running that) 15:21:00 <_dp_> TrueBrain, I'm pretty sure if it's arranged correctly gs commands can be executed instantly without desyncs 15:21:02 <TrueBrain> that means a server-player has a full second longer to do shit :) 15:21:21 <andythenorth> supermop_Home there's no real specific distance, usually I say '64 tiles' but that's kind of made up 15:21:28 <TrueBrain> _dp_: not in the way OpenTTD is setup. At least, you cannot guarantee that in any way, shape or form :) 15:21:30 <andythenorth> and if you're using cdist on a multi-stop route... 15:21:38 <TrueBrain> the way the network is designed, is to prevent desyncs as much as possible 15:21:48 <andythenorth> the cargo aging thing is a failed hack TBH :) 15:21:49 <TrueBrain> which might not be what you want, but it is what you got :P 15:22:01 <TrueBrain> there are SOME commands that are an exception btw 15:22:03 <supermop_Home> hmm 15:22:07 <_dp_> TrueBrain, iirc frame_freq doesn't even work correctly on non-default setting 15:22:07 <TrueBrain> but they are very carefully tailored 15:22:17 <TrueBrain> 13 years ago, it used to work flawless :P 15:22:19 <_dp_> at least that's the impression I got when I looked at netcode lastt time 15:22:21 <TrueBrain> I cannot speak for the current state :D 15:22:55 <TrueBrain> but again, it was a setting so we could tune stuff .. pretty sure everyone runs it on 0 these days :) 15:22:59 <TrueBrain> the internet changed a lot :P 15:23:14 <andythenorth> supermop_Home failing to make money with them? 15:23:19 <andythenorth> they're quite brittle 15:23:34 <TrueBrain> for the first few years some people ran it on "1" instead of "0", as with 300+ms latency, it was becoming easy to hit the lag-protection 15:23:42 <supermop_Home> will an equivalent capacity of medium wagons load faster than long wagons? 15:24:08 <andythenorth> nope, all wagon length stats are normalised as far as possible 15:24:16 <andythenorth> there are zero economic choices to make there 15:24:37 <supermop_Home> andy im using a griffon with 4-6 medium wagons 15:24:45 <supermop_Home> but it looks kinda dumb 15:25:12 <andythenorth> the sprite, or the resulting train? 15:25:24 <TrueBrain> _dp_: this is btw one of the drawbacks of what we nowedays call "lockstep" server/client, or "fully deterministic" :) It needs a delay to ensure server and client are doing EXACTLY the same :P 15:25:35 *** jottyfan has quit IRC 15:26:06 <supermop_Home> the short little train.. like i feel like i should be using something else 15:26:18 <TrueBrain> I doubt there is an alternative for OpenTTD that would work as robust shrug 15:26:25 <andythenorth> supermop_Home pax or freight? 15:26:26 <supermop_Home> around 40-54 tiles manhattan between towns 15:26:33 <supermop_Home> passengers 15:26:38 <_dp_> TrueBrain, I kinda lost you on "the way the network is designed, is to prevent desyncs as much as possible" 15:26:47 <_dp_> it sure doesn't look that way :p 15:27:13 <TrueBrain> did you ever notice have incredible stable our network games are? :) 15:27:17 <andythenorth> supermop_Home you can probably use anything except high-speed and TGV on that 15:27:18 <supermop_Home> HST would be overkill 15:27:29 <TrueBrain> the only desyncs happen because people are using random over interactiverandom, or memory that is not initialized, basically :p 15:27:37 <TrueBrain> and for that I just say: NewGRF :P 15:27:56 <andythenorth> supermop_Home I have a 62 tile route with a mix of luxury emus, pax engines, all making money 15:28:00 <TrueBrain> but games do not desync because a client is lagging behind, etc 15:28:03 <andythenorth> 3 stations, one dead in the middle 15:28:04 <frosch123> FLHerne: there is no valid usecase for UNPRINT. consider it non-existing :) 15:28:07 <_dp_> TrueBrain, yeah, but that's just what command queue gives you 15:28:37 <TrueBrain> _dp_: a lock-stepped command queue, yes :) With that we mean: every N ms the server tells all clients: make a step, wait for the next 15:29:01 <_dp_> also I recently found out that some ppl enable pause on join for stability 15:29:06 <frosch123> FLHerne: nml and/or eints do explicitly not support some control chars, to not expose things that were considered bad features 15:29:22 <_dp_> which is annoying af 15:29:31 <TrueBrain> _dp_: pause-on-join should only prevent the command-queue from increasing in size while a client is joining 15:29:43 <TrueBrain> as in, there are games where running commands is about as fast as the game runs 15:29:54 <TrueBrain> but those servers have other problems :P 15:30:08 <milek7> >It needs a delay 15:30:11 <milek7> well, not necessarily. delay can be avoided if there's ability to rewind game state :P 15:30:16 <TrueBrain> pause-on-join is not needed if you make sure your server is slower than all clients btw :D 15:30:31 <TrueBrain> milek7: yes, when I sit on an unicorn, I love how the world looks to me :) 15:30:51 <TrueBrain> in OpenTTD, "game state" is rather .. fluent :P 15:30:51 <andythenorth> unicorns for christmas pls 15:31:19 <TrueBrain> and so many people came (and went), swearing to fix that :P 15:31:57 <_dp_> TrueBrain, I know that, but if client is lagging on simulation it's hopeless anyway, pause or join or not 15:32:07 <TrueBrain> _dp_: I fully agree :) 15:32:11 <_dp_> also there was a setting to increase catchup time iirc 15:32:17 <TrueBrain> I believe openttdcoop was to blame for that functionality btw :P 15:32:33 <TrueBrain> yeah ... but if your client cannot keep up, increasing that is totally pointless too :D 15:32:38 <milek7> yeah rewinding ottd state is hard to do, but I commented generally about "lockstep" server/client 15:32:38 <_dp_> TrueBrain, oh, that explains everything xDDD 15:33:40 <TrueBrain> many people couldn't join openttdcoop games after a while :P 15:34:00 <TrueBrain> and pause-on-join does help with slow connections 15:34:06 <TrueBrain> like .. 15 years a go that was a real thing 15:34:06 <_dp_> milek7, rewind what? as long as command order is maintened it doesn't matter if it's delayed or not 15:34:42 <TrueBrain> these days if you need pause-on-join, I would dare to claim you have other problems already :D 15:34:49 <TrueBrain> if you can watch a youtube movie, that shouldn't be any issue :D 15:35:00 <TrueBrain> well, for 4k by 4k servers maybe 15:35:07 <TrueBrain> but then again ... you have other issues :P 15:35:48 <_dp_> btw, nowdays map loading time is mostly limited by server archiving speed 15:35:59 <TrueBrain> _dp_: I think milek7 refers to a way of lockstep, which is an async-lockstep, where you run commands as soon as you receive them, and roll back if it turns out there was one out-of-order 15:36:06 <TrueBrain> it is used in RPG games for example 15:36:14 <TrueBrain> not all, but just some, key frames cause a rollback 15:36:16 <milek7> _dp_: I mean that you can design game with lockstep multiplayer without effective lag (apply late arriving commands in the past state, and resimulate everything after that) 15:36:56 <_dp_> milek7, ah, no, I just meant servers own commands, clients will be delayed as usual ofc 15:38:17 <TrueBrain> for action games it works really well, async-lockstep, as a lot of information is irrelevant in terms of time 15:38:19 <TrueBrain> like your position 15:38:22 <TrueBrain> or the health of your oponent 15:38:24 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick commented on pull request #8403: Feature: Reworked recessions setting to allow durations up to 10 years https://git.io/JLiOt 15:38:29 <TrueBrain> so rollbacks are very rare 15:38:41 <TrueBrain> (information just resets when-ever you get the next update) 15:38:48 <TrueBrain> OpenTTD is not that kind of game :) 15:39:02 <TrueBrain> every change has a HUGE influence on the game-state :P 15:39:02 <frosch123> factorio has some kind of latency hiding 15:39:34 <frosch123> when you build stuff, the drawing stuff pretends it's there immediately, but it only starts existing/working when the server confirmed it 15:39:35 <TrueBrain> I hope they didn't use the OpenTTD approach for a lot of things .. game-state for sure is one of them :D 15:39:51 <TrueBrain> lot of games use that trick, yes :) Minecraft is known for that :D 15:39:58 <TrueBrain> (you see a block, and poof, it is gone) 15:40:09 <frosch123> oh, they tried something else first. it failed, then they went the ottd way 15:40:10 <_dp_> TrueBrain, yeah, stuff like that doesn't even cross my mind when it comes to openttd :p 15:40:37 <TrueBrain> the network we had in the very first version was funny 15:40:43 <TrueBrain> depending on your latency, you would desync instantly 15:41:01 <TrueBrain> when I rewrote the network to TCP, lot of people were telling me I was doing it wrong, games should be UDP, and blablablablablabla 15:41:05 <TrueBrain> this was 2005 or what-ever 15:41:10 <TrueBrain> UDP was HOT 15:41:18 <TrueBrain> fucking hilarious, looking back :) 15:42:02 <_dp_> udp? in openttd?? suuure... 15:42:23 <TrueBrain> "all games do UDP, so OpenTTD should too", I remember people saying :P 15:42:27 <andythenorth> game state should be XML :P 15:42:32 <andythenorth> oh wait, that was newgrf 15:42:34 <andythenorth> sorry, carry on 15:42:41 <TrueBrain> you really REALLY want to test out my @kick macros, dont you andythenorth ? 15:42:51 <andythenorth> everything should be tested occasionally 15:43:04 <andythenorth> I am going out in 20 mins, so kick me then, and it will look like I rage quit 15:43:09 <TrueBrain> :D 15:43:12 <andythenorth> such drama 15:43:28 *** JGR has joined #openttd 15:43:45 <frosch123> is QUIC still hot? 15:43:50 <TrueBrain> yup 15:43:58 <TrueBrain> well, HTTP/3 15:44:00 <_dp_> anyway, history is fun but why did we even start on that topic? xD 15:44:03 <TrueBrain> tomato tomato :) 15:44:15 <TrueBrain> _dp_: owh, you said you didn't understand a comment in the code :D 15:44:38 <_dp_> lol, yeah... 15:44:41 <TrueBrain> :P 15:44:42 <frosch123> are PR templates a good idea, or are they just inconvenient? 15:44:48 <TrueBrain> frosch123: a very good idea 15:44:51 <andythenorth> +1 15:44:53 <TrueBrain> this is just annoying, honestly :) 15:44:54 <andythenorth> just keep them simples 15:45:18 <_dp_> meanwhile I still haven't figured if that linkgraph pr affects non-cargodist games 15:45:20 <andythenorth> 'why', 'screenshot if relevant' ' how to test', 'what I've tested' 15:45:22 <andythenorth> or something 15:45:41 <frosch123> i thought i could make a single template. but there are so many things for features-only, that make no sense for bugs. but adding multiple templates to choose from makes it harder to pick the right one 15:45:51 <JGR> @dp if there are no link graph jobs running, it will have no effect 15:46:00 <andythenorth> "The [product I make name] feature that asks ‘why is this idea important’ is great because it makes the respondent think twice about what they’re saying and then argue the case for their idea." 15:46:01 <andythenorth> lol 15:46:04 <andythenorth> customer quote 15:46:06 <TrueBrain> frosch123: "bugs", "features", sounds sane to me .. but l ike 2 or 3 15:46:23 <_dp_> JGR, yeah, but that doesn't quite answer it ... 15:46:29 <andythenorth> frosch123 "Heading [optional - delete if not needed]" 15:46:33 <andythenorth> get people to deliberate a bit 15:46:34 <TrueBrain> what does link graph do, is the question I guess :D 15:46:41 <_dp_> like, I know some cargodist/linkgraph/something is still running even if it's off 15:46:46 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick commented on pull request #8404: Feature: Snow line height can be autodetermined upon world generation https://git.io/JLi3h 15:46:49 <_dp_> I justt not sure what exactly 15:47:03 <frosch123> TrueBrain: main toolbar, map menu 15:47:33 <andythenorth> is it only the visual display? 15:48:02 <frosch123> no, it also routes stuff, but the display makes it obvious why it is called "graph" 15:48:33 <frosch123> is explaining things with pictures no longer cool? 15:48:35 <TrueBrain> so without cargodist, it also has plenty of stuff to do? :) 15:48:54 <andythenorth> it should be doing nothing without cdist AIUI 15:48:55 <_dp_> at the very least it has plenty of ram to eat :p 15:50:04 <andythenorth> oh, if I turn off cdist, I still get a cargo map? 15:50:13 <andythenorth> game is mad 15:51:09 <JGR> Edges are still recorded even if cargodist does not do anything with them 15:51:10 <Eddi|zuHause> that's why it's not called "off" 15:51:35 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/nml] glx22 opened pull request #177: Fix: Don't use [] as default arg https://git.io/JLiGf 15:51:47 <andythenorth> every day is a school day 15:53:02 <_dp_> can it all be just ripped off on the server safely I wonder... 15:53:32 <_dp_> clients can linkgraph themselves if they need it :p 15:53:39 <JGR> Why bother, the performance impact is negligible with cargodist set to manual 15:54:08 <_dp_> JGR ram consumption isn't entirelyl negligible 15:54:10 <TrueBrain> _dp_: if you go down that route, many more places you could just disable the code for servers :P 15:54:12 <_dp_> it's like 7kb/station 15:54:20 <_dp_> even without any cargo 15:54:45 <_dp_> though I guess 64k stations isn't exactly a common usecase... 15:55:03 <TrueBrain> what gave that away? :D 15:55:04 <glx> isn't 64k the pool max ? 15:55:05 <Eddi|zuHause> i was about to ask: how many stations are you getting? 15:56:21 <_dp_> anyway, I was just wondering, if it was a real problem I would've probably done it already :P 15:56:32 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/nml] frosch123 approved pull request #177: Fix: Don't use [] as default arg https://git.io/JLiZZ 15:57:07 <FLHerne> There are definitely games with thousands of station 15:57:09 <FLHerne> s 15:57:19 <JGR> @dp It's certainly possible to significantly reduce the RAM use of the linkgraph, but it's still not exactly near the top of memory wasters 15:59:09 <Eddi|zuHause> FLHerne: surely in a game with thousands of stations, the actual cargo packets are orders of magnitude more 15:59:24 <FLHerne> Well, maybe 15:59:29 <_dp_> with openttd release cycle a lot of my thinking goes the way "is this something I may be concerned about the next year" :p 15:59:50 <FLHerne> I have a few cities with about 150 bus stops each, the cargo:station ratio is probably fairly low 15:59:54 <JGR> When you have thousands of stations, the N^2 parts of the linkgraph storage starts becoming significant 16:01:32 <Eddi|zuHause> why is there N^2 storage? wouldn't a sparse lookup table be better? 16:01:35 <JGR> In trunk you end up with loads of invalidated FlowStats which use a lot of memory and make the linkn grpah overlay inaccurate 16:01:41 <JGR> link graph* 16:03:00 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/nml] glx22 merged pull request #177: Fix: Don't use [] as default arg https://git.io/JLiGf 16:03:42 *** Flygon has quit IRC 16:05:04 <TrueBrain> efficiency of 300% ... I think this PR still has a bug :D 16:06:01 <TrueBrain> it also gets a big wonky if it takes more than a year to travel from station to station :D hihi 16:16:09 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain updated pull request #7353: Feature: Measure vehicle capacity utilisation efficiency https://git.io/fhho4 16:16:12 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on pull request #7353: Feature: Measure vehicle capacity utilisation efficiency https://git.io/JLiWZ 16:16:33 <TrueBrain> it is a really nice feature :) Just needs a bit more work :) But at least rebased now! I think .... it was difficult :P 16:16:47 * andythenorth wonders if github offers a way to discover nml repositories 16:16:53 <andythenorth> apropros https://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=1239512#p1239512 16:18:28 <TrueBrain> https://github.com/search?q=extension%3Anml&type=Code&ref=advsearch&l=&l= <- all repos with "nml" files in them :P 16:19:19 <andythenorth> nice 16:30:42 <milek7> TrueBrain: sorry if I'm asking too often, but is there something required from me about keyauth proposal? or I should just wait for feedback? 16:40:23 <TrueBrain> I wanted to pick that up today, but got distracted heavily :D 16:41:02 <TrueBrain> I want to make a Discussion thread about it to collect some info from others, so we can pick a way to go forward 16:41:15 <TrueBrain> Hopefully tonight, otherwise tomorrow 16:42:02 <TrueBrain> And we need to find wording that the average Joe is going to understand .. ugh :p 16:51:22 *** ZirconiumY has joined #openttd 16:52:22 *** ZirconiumX has quit IRC 16:52:27 <andythenorth> tomorrow! 16:52:30 <andythenorth> is livestream 16:52:38 <andythenorth> I should...test a headset or something 16:52:41 <andythenorth> get discord app 16:52:51 <andythenorth> find a room without wives, children 16:52:57 <LordAro> mm, yes 16:53:00 <andythenorth> hide anything personal 16:53:04 *** _Artea has joined #openttd 16:53:40 <TrueBrain> You are still welcome to join LordAro 16:53:57 <TrueBrain> But it does require testing beforehand :) 16:54:36 <LordAro> mm, especially because i'm now on my laptop which i've never used the webcam with :) 16:55:17 *** Artea has quit IRC 16:55:23 *** Westie has quit IRC 16:55:39 <TrueBrain> So get yourself on Discord, and we can test tonight :) 16:55:46 <TrueBrain> First dinner :D 16:56:17 *** Westie has joined #openttd 17:03:07 <supermop_Home> i wish there was a way to dissuade towns from doing this: https://imgur.com/a/ytjkIjT 17:05:37 <Xaroth> It's a tourist attraction 17:05:42 <Xaroth> a busride to the top of the mountain 17:06:04 <Xaroth> or a kickass sleighride downwards 17:22:04 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick updated pull request #7822: Fix #7670: Cache the origin tile to prevent recurring calls to the road pathfinder when a vehicle is blocked by another https://git.io/JegbJ 17:22:49 <andythenorth> releases are so boring :P 17:22:55 * andythenorth hasn't automated any release stuff 17:34:44 *** iSoSyS has quit IRC 17:51:02 <andythenorth> every few months another one like this :P https://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=1239511#p1239511 17:51:29 *** Wormnest has joined #openttd 17:53:51 <FLHerne> andythenorth: Is that true? 17:54:02 <andythenorth> that it runs amok? 17:54:29 <FLHerne> Can't you block creation based on industry_count, industry_distance etc? 17:54:46 <andythenorth> I can block it trivially using probability 17:54:50 <andythenorth> or more logic 17:55:30 <FLHerne> So why is "The rate of industry spawning is nothing that newgrf can influence...except to prevent it completely." true? 17:55:31 <andythenorth> e.g. https://github.com/andythenorth/firs/commit/cfcf9e181235aecab6b233d0d307964ebc2e8347 17:55:38 <_dp_> pretty sure you can change rates one way or the other 17:55:42 <andythenorth> there's nothing I can do to make more spawn 17:55:47 <_dp_> but may not be the most convenient way 17:55:56 <andythenorth> or at least, last time it was investigated, it was thought there was nothing 17:55:58 <FLHerne> So yes, that 17:56:10 <FLHerne> Sure, but the complaint is about too many 17:56:19 <andythenorth> yes 17:56:52 <andythenorth> but why? 17:56:58 <FLHerne> Default OTTD behaviour is 'amok' :p 17:57:03 <FLHerne> Particularly on large maps 17:58:16 <FLHerne> Still, the answer to this particular complaint looks like "set to 'funding only'" 17:58:31 <andythenorth> yes, but then they get a map with no industries :) 17:58:46 <andythenorth> which is kinda odd 17:59:56 <FLHerne> You can change it after map creation 18:00:33 <andythenorth> ooo 18:00:36 <andythenorth> where? :) 18:00:37 * andythenorth looking 18:00:56 <andythenorth> I have been changing it using the FIRS parameter during gameplay 18:01:12 <andythenorth> but that's equally limiting, as it prevents funding 18:01:30 <andythenorth> it's like every version of this is just FAIL :) 18:01:30 <FLHerne> andythenorth: Same setting 18:01:45 <andythenorth> nice 18:02:00 <andythenorth> found it 18:02:24 <FLHerne> Am I wrong? 18:02:29 <FLHerne> Or is that a JGR thing? 18:02:37 * FLHerne didn't find it :p 18:02:38 <andythenorth> no it's there 18:02:44 <andythenorth> 'density' 18:02:55 <andythenorth> 'funding' won't be found as a search string 18:03:32 <FLHerne> Oh, good 18:03:44 <FLHerne> Maybe I'm not hallucinating today 18:14:07 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] DorpsGek pushed 1 commits to master https://git.io/JLioK 18:14:08 <DorpsGek> - Update: Translations from eints (by translators) 18:20:25 *** Wolf01 has joined #openttd 18:21:37 <frosch123> hmm, looks like github has not implemented a PR template chooser 18:21:53 <frosch123> you can only have one PR template 18:22:52 <andythenorth> "[optional]" 18:23:04 <andythenorth> done > perfect? 18:25:56 <TrueBrain> frosch123: that is ... lame 18:27:15 <frosch123> https://github.com/frosch123/OpenTTD/blob/master/.github/PULL_REQUEST_TEMPLATE.md <- single template works 18:27:18 <frosch123> opinions? 18:27:54 <TrueBrain> I think PR creators cannot set labels 18:28:02 <TrueBrain> so not sure about that last part 18:28:17 <TrueBrain> and it is common to put this in <!-- -->, so if someone posts it, it is not rendered 18:28:21 <frosch123> yes, some of them are for the reviewers 18:28:26 <TrueBrain> (not the ##, but the rest) 18:28:43 <TrueBrain> ah, yeah, okay, that is fine :) 18:29:01 <TrueBrain> "Checklist for reviewer" maybe as title instead? 18:29:05 <frosch123> i'll add the <!-- --> when the rest is fine 18:29:10 <TrueBrain> if I would make a PR, I would remove that part not understanding it :D 18:29:36 <TrueBrain> Limitations: add something like "do you know of a bug or a corner case that doesn't work?" ? 18:30:21 <TrueBrain> motivation, feature: "Which group of players you think would enjoy this feature?" or something? 18:30:42 <TrueBrain> but yeah, looks fine! 18:35:56 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] frosch123 opened pull request #8414: Add: PR templates. https://git.io/JLiiP 18:36:31 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] frosch123 updated pull request #8414: Add: PR templates. https://git.io/JLiiP 18:37:21 <andythenorth> can we link? https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/blob/master/CONTRIBUTING.md#project-goals 18:37:41 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain approved pull request #8414: Add: PR templates. https://git.io/JLiiN 18:38:08 <frosch123> andythenorth: noone reads that 18:38:15 <andythenorth> I know! :) 18:38:18 <andythenorth> but still 18:41:03 <Eddi|zuHause> if you link it, they will come :p 18:41:54 <Samu> glx, how do i test regression now after the cmake? 18:42:36 <frosch123> FLHerne: glx: what do i need to do about https://github.com/OpenTTD/nml/pull/175 ? i added examples/regression tests for all problems it addresses 18:42:41 <Eddi|zuHause> possibly also link to codestyle and commit message style? 18:43:01 <frosch123> github already does that 18:43:09 <frosch123> does not mean people read it 18:43:17 <frosch123> but it is automatically checked, so no problem 18:44:02 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on pull request #8413: Fix: Don't lower tree density if spreading is not enabled https://git.io/JLiPD 18:44:26 <Eddi|zuHause> i haven't made a PR in a while, but i never saw a prominent place where commit message style was explained. and had to bury deep in the compiler output to find out what exactly was wrong 18:44:32 <TrueBrain> what is cool, if you change contribution.md, it tells you it has changed since your last PR :) 18:44:53 <glx> Samu: there should be a "Test" menu with "Run CTest" in 18:44:54 <TrueBrain> GitHub interface tries really hard to make people read it :D It is nice :) 18:45:33 <glx> Samu: other option is to switch solution explorer view to show targets 18:45:56 <glx> and build "regression" target 18:46:34 <Samu> I found the Run CTest 18:47:00 <Samu> i don't have anything listed in the solution explorer when show targets is selected 18:47:54 <Samu> I have this https://i.imgur.com/SmDysL4.png 18:48:14 <glx> double click on cmake target view 18:49:01 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] ldpl commented on pull request #8413: Fix: Don't lower tree density if spreading is not enabled https://git.io/JLiXn 18:49:28 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] frosch123 dismissed a review for pull request #8414: Add: PR templates. https://git.io/JLiiN 18:49:31 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] frosch123 updated pull request #8414: Add: PR templates. https://git.io/JLiiP 18:49:33 <Samu> oh!! that was it 18:49:35 <Samu> thanks 18:49:39 <frosch123> found some typos 18:49:51 *** jottyfan has joined #openttd 18:50:24 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] frosch123 updated pull request #8414: Add: PR templates. https://git.io/JLiiP 18:51:21 *** Samu has quit IRC 18:51:51 *** jottyfan has quit IRC 18:52:36 *** JGR has quit IRC 18:53:29 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on pull request #8403: Feature: Reworked recessions setting to allow durations up to 10 years https://git.io/JLiX9 18:53:32 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain closed pull request #8403: Feature: Reworked recessions setting to allow durations up to 10 years https://git.io/JLask 18:54:47 <TrueBrain> _dp_: cheers, good explanation :D 18:54:54 <TrueBrain> let me build a preview and test it out :) 18:55:30 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain approved pull request #8414: Add: PR templates. https://git.io/JLi1m 18:56:09 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on pull request #8414: Add: PR templates. https://git.io/JLi1W 18:56:19 <andythenorth> \o/ 19:00:14 <andythenorth> this PR seems uncontroversial to me https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/7441 19:00:30 <andythenorth> discuss in stream or not? 19:01:59 <frosch123> i am preparing a list of all vehicle/group list related things. we have more of those 19:02:25 <frosch123> i don't think they should be discussed in isolation 19:03:00 <andythenorth> +1 19:04:08 <TrueBrain> andythenorth: did you manage to prepare a nice map for that one ticket I asked by any chance? :D 19:07:39 <andythenorth> no, but I can look 19:07:53 <andythenorth> I have finished a Horse release, to-do list is shorter :P 19:08:08 <andythenorth> https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/7353 ? 19:08:29 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain requested changes for pull request #8401: Change: Towns don't build dead-end road bridges https://git.io/JLiDY 19:08:43 <TrueBrain> andythenorth: yes! And I want some nice looking graphics :D 19:08:57 <TrueBrain> (with files on BaNaNaS plz, so I can download them easily :D) 19:09:00 <andythenorth> rainbow colour schemes :P 19:09:07 <andythenorth> yes bananas 19:09:57 <TrueBrain> I like how #8401 went slightly overboard with comments :) That is a nice problem to have :) 19:10:33 <andythenorth> I used to comment every line when I was learning to code 19:10:56 <andythenorth> now I only comment for apologies to my future self 19:13:42 <TrueBrain> my truck is 30% efficient ...booooo 19:14:05 <TrueBrain> guess most vehicles are ~50% efficient :P 19:14:08 <TrueBrain> or < 50% 19:14:21 <Timberwolf> I tend to have a big thing about "why, not what" with dev teams. 19:14:58 <TrueBrain> there is a bit of balance between those comments :) 19:15:00 <andythenorth> I used to write comments like "this adds two numbers together" :P 19:15:00 <andythenorth> lol 19:15:01 <michi_cc> TrueBrain: Do you have time for a stream test, or are you still blowing leafs? 19:15:08 <TrueBrain> michi_cc: nope, I have time! 19:15:12 <andythenorth> Roadtypes remain confusing https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/issues/8275 19:15:18 <andythenorth> I don't understand even the ticket 19:15:33 <Timberwolf> TrueBrain: yeah, it's more of a subtle balance. 19:16:09 <Timberwolf> "does this tell me something I can't see from the code in front of me?" is a good question imo. 19:16:10 <frosch123> Timberwolf: "code with comments" in the intermediate state between "bad code without comments" and "code that is so good it does not need comments" :) 19:16:10 * andythenorth steps away from issues 19:16:33 *** blathijs has quit IRC 19:16:39 <Timberwolf> And also, "why doesn't tge code tell me that?" 19:20:58 <Timberwolf> I had a coworker years ago whose comments mainly explained his state of mind. 19:22:05 <Timberwolf> They were all fairly low value "explaining the method name again" type ones, but with more swearing and ranting the angrier he'd been. 19:22:33 <frosch123> angry comments :) 19:22:44 *** blathijs has joined #openttd 19:23:10 <andythenorth> I think most comments can be distilled down to 3 things 19:23:32 <andythenorth> 1. a url to Stack Overflow for Why This Doesn't Work And What I Had To Do About It 19:23:36 <andythenorth> 2. 'sorry' 19:23:41 <andythenorth> 3. 'FML' 19:29:22 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/team] J0anJosep opened issue #111: [ca_ES] Translator access request https://git.io/JLi9U 19:30:09 <TrueBrain> LordAro: so ... tomorrow .. in or out? :) 19:31:10 <LordAro> TrueBrain: i think i should be able to do tomorrow 19:31:16 <TrueBrain> can we test today? :) 19:31:22 <LordAro> need to work out how to make my microphone work though 19:31:25 <LordAro> alsa isn't playing ball 19:31:31 <michi_cc> TrueBrain: Did you try to convince jgr, btw? 19:31:41 <TrueBrain> I have not asked, no 19:31:43 <TrueBrain> feel free :D 19:33:29 <TrueBrain> LordAro: well, hopefully you get it to work today :D Would be nice to test it :P 19:33:39 <TrueBrain> I don't really feel like testing it 1 hour before stream, so any time before that would be good :) 19:33:50 <LordAro> yeah :) 19:34:09 <TrueBrain> it is hard to configure OBS :( 19:35:20 *** gelignite has joined #openttd 19:53:47 <andythenorth> BBL 19:53:49 *** andythenorth has quit IRC 20:11:40 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] ldpl opened pull request #8415: Feature: Add an option to disable tree growth completely https://git.io/JLi5i 20:11:53 *** jottyfan has joined #openttd 20:17:25 *** jottyfan has quit IRC 20:20:26 <_dp_> next pr will be "now that I've fixed everything lets remake trees from scratch and try not to break" 20:20:30 <TrueBrain> LordAro: and as you find out on Discord, very painfully, is that nobody knows who you are :P I had hilarious conversations with people who were telling me things about openttd.org :P 20:20:34 <_dp_> that is, if I ever get to doing that :p 20:20:48 <LordAro> TrueBrain: :D 20:22:18 <frosch123> TrueBrain: so that's why you do not want that purple colour? 20:22:29 <frosch123> you want honest feedback :) 20:22:38 <TrueBrain> haha, yes, that is the excuse that works :) 20:22:57 <TrueBrain> honestly, I find it hilarious .. users says BaNaNaS doesn't work, I tell him what he is doing wrong, and he goes off on me that he knows better how it works 20:23:01 <TrueBrain> those things, just make my day :) 20:25:43 <_dp_> haha, similarly there is no end to people trying to tell me how towns grow xD 20:27:17 *** Tirili has joined #openttd 20:33:47 <_dp_> btw, if you run out of things to discuss I have a list ;) https://pastebin.com/kXqWSfqR 20:34:08 <_dp_> though I kinda know devs opinion on this already it would be interesting to hear viewers/players 20:34:21 <_dp_> if you ever manage to get their feedback somehow... 20:34:29 <TrueBrain> that sure is a list :P 20:34:41 <TrueBrain> maybe for next time, if there is a next time :D 20:34:45 <_dp_> that's kind of my TODO-OR-NOT-TODO list :p 20:35:00 <TrueBrain> I have no clue how many people we can expect, and it they ever want a second one :P 20:40:42 <michi_cc> The list of people that stream for 1-10 viewers in Twitch is looong. 20:40:53 <michi_cc> As long as streaming is fun... 20:43:27 <_dp_> out of that list I personally am most interested to see some popup style and usage for new features as there are currently 2 trends in patchpacks 20:43:41 <_dp_> defaul-like https://i.imgur.com/0EWLcHW.png and a nice one https://i.imgur.com/LLlsxPM.png 20:44:01 <TrueBrain> scriptable UIs next you say? 20:44:41 <_dp_> that's too big of a pie :p 20:44:42 <_dp_> i 20:44:51 <_dp_> I'm more realistic so just ui for scripts ;) 20:45:37 <glx> I often can't watch streams because twitch doesn't enable transcoding 20:45:47 <_dp_> (I know I missed some words somewhere but it's too late to correct) 20:47:47 <_dp_> speaking of ui for scripts, something needs to be done about blood company rating table 20:48:06 <_dp_> did nielsm pr his changes on that? 20:48:16 <michi_cc> glx: Transcoding is only guaranteed for partnered streamers and often also for affiliates. "Nobodies" often don't get it for their stream. 20:48:25 <glx> yeah I know 20:48:27 <nielsm> not really no 20:48:41 <nielsm> I didn't finish design for the GS-controlled company ratings 20:48:47 <glx> but it highly depends on the start hour too 20:49:13 <_dp_> nielsm, you have a lot of cool unfinished things I noticed ;) 20:49:20 <_dp_> well, so do I, I guess xD 20:49:22 <nielsm> yes 20:51:15 <TrueBrain> he made drafts out of them :P 20:52:33 <TrueBrain> michi_cc: so we will be streaming 1080p to everyone? Well, that will be interesting :D 20:53:22 <michi_cc> If you don't have that much moving content, you don't need a high bit-rate though. 20:53:56 <michi_cc> I've seen non-game streams on Twitch where 1080p with 3000kpbs or so looks totally fine. 20:56:21 <nielsm> btw if you need to catch me for something specific please PM me, I might not notice channel messages until much later 20:56:27 <TrueBrain> I have min 4500 max 6000, guess I can tune that a bit 20:56:36 *** Tirili has quit IRC 20:56:54 <glx> should be ok for me 20:56:56 *** Tirili has joined #openttd 20:57:19 <TrueBrain> trying to recreate a happy accident I had when making an intro .... but I am failing to do so :D 20:57:29 <TrueBrain> annoying, how things can just happen, and when you want it to happen, you fail :P 20:57:37 <michi_cc> You were funny? :p 20:59:04 <TrueBrain> ...... keep that attitude for tomorrow would you? :P 21:04:36 <_dp_> hm... is there any particular reason why cargo ages when vehicle is loading/unloading? 21:04:59 <_dp_> I mean... it doesn't age on station 21:05:45 <_dp_> and it would make some things better if it didn't 21:08:51 <frosch123> i like that it penalises too long trains that load for 2 years 21:09:03 <frosch123> i wouldn't mind if cargo also ages while in stations 21:10:26 <_dp_> without station aging long trains can do some timetabling/delaying schenanigans to avoid the issue 21:15:17 <TrueBrain> https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/runs/1597113850?check_suite_focus=true 21:15:18 <_dp_> it also kinda contradicts station rating calculation as that rewards you for having a train waiting at all times 21:15:25 <TrueBrain> right .. that is NOT helpful GitHub ... 21:15:33 <TrueBrain> " 21:15:33 <TrueBrain> GitHub Actions has encountered an internal error when running your job. 21:15:33 <TrueBrain> " 21:15:44 <TrueBrain> how about a rerun .. does that fix anything :D 21:16:29 <TrueBrain> at least info@ received an email about the failure :) 21:17:31 <frosch123> _dp_: but isn't that a good thing? it means there is some optimum in the middle which you can aim for. instead of some extreme 21:19:26 <glx> TrueBrain: seems MacOS runner has starting issues 21:19:34 <TrueBrain> indeed ... again 21:19:35 <_dp_> frosch123, I'm not sure I like that kind of micro 21:19:40 <TrueBrain> I was hoping they would fix that last week 21:19:45 <_dp_> frosch123, managing train delays is a pita 21:20:48 <frosch123> pff, there always has to be room for better players 21:21:00 <frosch123> don't adjust the game to what you are good at 21:21:06 <_dp_> frosch123, but, more importantly, it penalizes servicing industries that produce less cargo 21:21:16 <_dp_> not only you get less but also more affected by ratings/aging 21:21:54 <frosch123> if you go for the same train length, yes 21:22:07 <frosch123> you have to use shorter trains for smaller industries 21:22:12 <frosch123> or even rv feeders 21:22:19 <_dp_> if you go for shorter trains you lose more on running costs 21:22:19 <frosch123> that's a feature 21:22:23 <frosch123> and imo a quite good one 21:22:49 *** Samu has joined #openttd 21:23:40 <_dp_> frosch123, I may not be the only one who doesn't find it fun :p 21:23:50 <frosch123> ok, so you want a flat map, equally spaced industries with constant production, ... did you consider playing excel instead? :p 21:23:53 <_dp_> though most players don't even know how cargo ages... 21:24:58 <_dp_> also it's kind of irrelevant to how I play tbh 21:27:00 <TrueBrain> glx: can't find reports of people complaining about it .. hope it isn't just us :D 21:27:58 <TrueBrain> owh, we are running on macos-11.0 21:28:05 <TrueBrain> not macos-latest (which is 10.15) 21:28:11 <TrueBrain> there might be less runners or something for 11.0? 21:28:30 <TrueBrain> "The macOS 11.0 virtual environment is currently provided as a preview only." 21:30:25 <TrueBrain> CI is running macos-latest 21:30:29 <TrueBrain> which is much more responsive 21:30:30 <TrueBrain> so yeah ... 21:30:36 <TrueBrain> but I guess we wanted the 11.0 for ARM? 21:33:07 <TrueBrain> anyway, nightlies are not being produced because of this .. guess we will try again tomorrow :D 21:38:54 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd 21:39:29 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] frosch123 merged pull request #8414: Add: PR templates. https://git.io/JLiiP 21:39:51 <frosch123> let's see what essays people will write 21:40:47 <TrueBrain> :D 21:47:30 <andythenorth> let's have a beer! 21:47:33 * andythenorth had to shop 21:47:39 <andythenorth> now beer 21:50:05 <FLHerne> /me has a big mug of cocoa and some porridge :p 21:50:42 <FLHerne> I did drink some whisky with chili in it earlier for some reason 21:54:56 *** Samu has quit IRC 21:56:26 *** Wolf01 has quit IRC 22:06:24 <Timberwolf> I got back into brewing my own during one of the various lockdown phases. 22:07:09 <Timberwolf> Currently have a cherry chocolate imperial stout, which is very nice (except the time I decided to have an entire pint of it during our work "Friday end of week drinks" call) 22:07:44 <Timberwolf> Well, it was still nice except one of our developers was very keen to get some infrastructure into Terraform immediately after the social call :) 22:09:16 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/nml] glx22 approved pull request #175: Fix mixing action features and variable scopes. https://git.io/JLPve 22:26:31 <andythenorth> :) 22:31:03 <andythenorth> Timberwolf Stadler Eurodual for Timberwolf Trains? :) https://grf.farm/iron-horse/2.16.0/html/quietus.html 22:31:19 <Timberwolf> It was on the list at one point! 22:31:31 <andythenorth> your list is longer than mine yet? :) 22:31:39 <andythenorth> do an industry set, that raises the game 22:31:48 <Timberwolf> I have most of the model, it was going to be an alternative livery for whatever the diesel-only version of it is. 22:32:06 <andythenorth> mine's more fake than the 88 22:35:08 <andythenorth> there's a picture somewhere of the big eurodual on test next to an 88 22:35:10 <andythenorth> can't find it 22:38:11 <andythenorth> google image search is very bad for Horse completedness 22:38:16 *** sla_ro|master has quit IRC 22:38:16 <andythenorth> I keep finding new things to draw 22:38:23 <Timberwolf> Heh. 22:38:47 <andythenorth> how's the stations? 22:39:09 <Timberwolf> I should add some more to those. 22:39:36 <andythenorth> full baseset replacement or go home :P 22:39:44 <andythenorth> ogfx has served its time :P 22:39:56 <andythenorth> at least, the building sprites 22:40:03 <andythenorth> ogf landscape is good, and the vehicles are ok 22:40:14 <Timberwolf> I've been quite tempted to make a town set at some point. 22:40:47 <andythenorth> towns, planes, I am avoiding 22:41:05 <andythenorth> the current state of grf is remarkably good though 22:41:07 <Timberwolf> My problem with planes is I don't really like them (in game) 22:41:10 <andythenorth> so many good sets appearing 22:41:24 <andythenorth> planes, AV 9.8, done 22:41:27 <Timberwolf> So I'd do something weird and idiosyncratic to "fix the problems I see" 22:41:37 <andythenorth> they're just for FIRS supplies :P 22:45:10 * andythenorth wonders what voxel ships look like 22:45:15 <andythenorth> ships are soooo boring to draw 22:48:21 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] 2TallTyler commented on pull request #8401: Change: Towns don't build dead-end road bridges https://git.io/JLPTS 22:48:33 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] 2TallTyler commented on pull request #8401: Change: Towns don't build dead-end road bridges https://git.io/JLPTQ 22:55:13 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] 2TallTyler updated pull request #8401: Change: Towns don't build dead-end road bridges https://git.io/JLzst 22:56:30 *** jottyfan has joined #openttd 22:56:37 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] 2TallTyler commented on pull request #8401: Change: Towns don't build dead-end road bridges https://git.io/JLPkV 22:59:31 *** jottyfan has quit IRC 23:20:29 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] JGRennison opened pull request #8416: Change: [Linkgraph] Allow job threads to be aborted early when clearing schedule https://git.io/JLPtt 23:21:59 <andythenorth> nice use of template :D 23:27:00 *** WormnestAndroid has quit IRC 23:27:12 *** WormnestAndroid has joined #openttd 23:37:24 <frosch123> i made a compilation of all the group list prs 23:37:33 <frosch123> those merged last week and those still open 23:37:52 <frosch123> some of them proof that there are also singleplayer people :) 23:38:02 <frosch123> (read: broken in multiplayer) 23:38:46 <frosch123> but still a welcome distraction from the multiplayer fanboys 23:38:57 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] michicc commented on pull request #8416: Change: [Linkgraph] Allow job threads to be aborted early when clearing schedule https://git.io/JLPma 23:38:58 <TrueBrain> Nice! 23:39:13 <TrueBrain> We will see tomorrow live what you made out of this :D 23:40:11 <frosch123> still unsure how to incorporate the troll pr 23:43:12 <TrueBrain> We will just see how it goes :p so many ways to troll with it 23:43:55 <TrueBrain> If it can crash with trains I have some ideas :p 23:44:43 <frosch123> i'll add that tomorrow 23:44:44 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] JGRennison commented on pull request #8416: Change: [Linkgraph] Allow job threads to be aborted early when clearing schedule https://git.io/JLPYc 23:45:12 <TrueBrain> "And now to our sponsor ... do you also hate that ships are useless? They just float a bit, but they cannot even crash trains! Wait no longer .. hovercrafts are here!" 23:45:36 <TrueBrain> Followed by boats ramming into trains 23:46:19 <frosch123> i am still amazed how dead the forums are 23:46:25 <TrueBrain> "What is the shortest path from A to B? Wrong! Hovercrafts " 23:47:31 <TrueBrain> Reddit is more active than the forums, yes 23:47:49 <frosch123> not sure about that 23:47:57 <frosch123> reddit is a single thread 23:48:07 <frosch123> while forum is scattered over 200 subforums 23:48:11 <TrueBrain> Btw, did any of the merged PRs for groups break multiplayer? 23:48:25 <frosch123> they break the gui in some places 23:48:34 <TrueBrain> Meh 23:48:39 <frosch123> but didn't spot multiplayer issues 23:48:52 <frosch123> i'll mention the issues on the stream, maybe someone fixes them :p 23:49:00 <TrueBrain> :D 23:49:37 <glx> window refresh issues ? 23:49:57 <frosch123> my favorite pr is the one that goes: this adds feature X. me: hmm, didn't we already have that? me: let's test, oh, it's still there, but kind of broken, so the PR adds an alternative solution instead of fixing the original... 23:50:15 <TrueBrain> Lol 23:50:17 <_dp_> https://i.imgur.com/e0TT2s3.png 23:50:38 <TrueBrain> Hahaha 23:50:45 <TrueBrain> Who needs hovercrafts 23:50:50 <frosch123> glx: nah, just missing widget sizing, so texts are truncated and unreadable 23:51:27 <TrueBrain> Anyway, time for some zzz 23:52:07 <frosch123> yep, night 23:52:11 *** frosch123 has quit IRC 23:59:22 <andythenorth> _dp_ that is gold 23:59:25 <andythenorth> livestream :P 23:59:33 <andythenorth> also FFS what time is ti? 23:59:38 <andythenorth> why do I stay up so late? 23:59:43 <andythenorth> wife wakes up at 5am, this hurts