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00:09:08 *** Sacro has quit IRC 00:09:20 *** Sacro has joined #openttd 00:24:52 *** TrueBrain has quit IRC 00:24:53 *** TrueBrain has joined #openttd 00:31:28 *** Progman_ has quit IRC 00:47:32 *** Terkhen has quit IRC 00:47:52 *** Terkhen has joined #openttd 00:47:52 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o Terkhen 00:48:29 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] perezdidac opened pull request #8929: Fix: adjust object and rail station selection window padding to be consistent https://git.io/JYoSz 01:05:56 *** Alkel_U3 has quit IRC 01:06:09 *** Alkel_U3 has joined #openttd 01:09:56 *** fonsinchen has quit IRC 01:10:22 *** fonsinchen has joined #openttd 01:10:28 *** Ammler has quit IRC 01:10:52 *** Ammler has joined #openttd 01:23:32 *** labs[m] has quit IRC 01:23:36 *** labs[m] has joined #openttd 02:17:40 *** karl[m]5 has quit IRC 02:17:45 *** karl[m]5 has joined #openttd 02:49:40 *** yur3shmukcik[m] has quit IRC 02:49:45 *** yur3shmukcik[m] has joined #openttd 02:57:38 *** Wormnest has quit IRC 03:19:23 *** Flygon has joined #openttd 03:23:31 *** r1c0n3r0_ has quit IRC 03:29:26 *** r1c0n3r0_ has joined #openttd 03:45:08 *** magdalena[m] has quit IRC 03:45:14 *** magdalena[m] has joined #openttd 04:50:50 *** snail_UES_ has quit IRC 05:03:04 *** r1c0n3r0_ has quit IRC 05:06:44 *** V453000 has quit IRC 05:07:22 *** V453000 has joined #openttd 05:08:36 *** SmatZ has quit IRC 05:09:22 *** SmatZ has joined #openttd 05:28:38 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] btzy commented on pull request #8926: Fix #8922: Show vehicle window for single vehicle in shared order grouping https://git.io/JYKcV 05:29:56 *** cacheerror[m] has quit IRC 05:29:59 *** cacheerror[m] has joined #openttd 05:34:28 *** bkilm[m] has quit IRC 05:34:33 *** bkilm[m] has joined #openttd 05:45:22 *** HerzogDeXtEr has joined #openttd 05:54:28 *** natalie[m] has quit IRC 05:54:32 *** natalie[m] has joined #openttd 06:03:06 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/nml] werbfred updated pull request #199: Add support of square root function in builtin functions https://git.io/JYrhN 06:09:08 *** nartir[m] has quit IRC 06:09:13 *** nartir[m] has joined #openttd 06:19:28 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/nml] werbfred commented on pull request #199: Add: support of square root and round functions to builtin functions https://git.io/JYK0B 06:25:26 *** sla_ro|master has joined #openttd 06:48:20 *** ircer[m] has quit IRC 06:48:27 *** ircer[m] has joined #openttd 07:00:51 <LordAro> https://steamcommunity.com/app/1536610/discussions/0/3111393847709005401/ i object to "most serious players" 07:09:22 *** iSoSyS has joined #openttd 07:13:44 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro approved pull request #8928: Fix: Memory leak of airport tile layout in AirportChangeInfo (prop 0A) https://git.io/JYKrv 07:14:51 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro approved pull request #8929: Fix: adjust object and rail station selection window padding to be consistent https://git.io/JYKrq 07:24:02 *** WormnestAndroid has quit IRC 07:24:15 *** WormnestAndroid has joined #openttd 07:34:23 *** supermop_Home_ has quit IRC 07:35:00 *** freu[m] has quit IRC 07:35:03 *** freu[m] has joined #openttd 07:45:14 <TrueBrain> I love how he mixes "serious players" and "newcomers" in the same post 07:45:22 <TrueBrain> From 0 to 100 07:52:09 *** Your_mum has joined #openttd 07:52:17 <Your_mum> Your mum 07:52:56 *** Your_mum has quit IRC 07:53:11 <TrueBrain> Tnx for that valuable contribution 07:53:52 <TrueBrain> Hmm .. 0 sentry alerts .. boring is good :D 07:55:32 *** cjmonagle[m] has quit IRC 07:55:37 *** cjmonagle[m] has joined #openttd 08:00:28 *** nielsm has joined #openttd 08:02:12 *** milek7 has quit IRC 08:02:12 *** milek7_ has joined #openttd 08:11:57 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] michicc approved pull request #8899: Fix: Freeing LanguagePack with wrong size. https://git.io/JYKDH 08:12:29 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] michicc merged pull request #8899: Fix: Freeing LanguagePack with wrong size. https://git.io/JYGSt 08:12:51 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] michicc merged pull request #8908: Adds hotkey for the new filter edit boxes. https://git.io/JYc49 08:13:31 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] michicc merged pull request #8880: Feature: Press ctrl to build diagonal rivers in Scenario Editor https://git.io/Jmd3N 08:13:56 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] michicc merged pull request #8928: Fix: Memory leak of airport tile layout in AirportChangeInfo (prop 0A) https://git.io/JYoPF 08:15:30 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] michicc merged pull request #8929: Fix: adjust object and rail station selection window padding to be consistent https://git.io/JYoSz 08:15:50 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] michicc closed issue #8618: Script API compatibility files are not found https://git.io/Jt4gP 08:15:53 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] michicc merged pull request #8906: Change: [CMake] Copy AI/GS compatibility files to build dir https://git.io/JYnSB 08:18:39 <TrueBrain> someone was waiting for their moment to shine :D 08:19:16 *** Yexo has quit IRC 08:19:52 *** Yexo has joined #openttd 08:23:46 <michi_cc> Just doing housekeeping :) 08:26:10 *** Wolf01 has joined #openttd 08:26:41 *** Progman has joined #openttd 08:35:33 <TrueBrain> so now we also get emails about servers that have company names that are ... not okay 08:36:07 <TrueBrain> wtf do we do with that .. 08:36:08 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd 08:36:17 <Wolf01> Put a disclaimer like on minecraft 08:36:54 <Wolf01> https://minecraft.fandom.com/wiki/File:Multiplayer_disclaimer.png 08:37:41 *** andythenorth has quit IRC 08:38:36 <nielsm> also on the contact page, "The OpenTTD project does not own or operate any multiplayer game servers. We cannot help you with any questions, trouble, or complaints about servers operated by third parties." 08:39:11 <peter1138> The server list is though 08:39:32 <Wolf01> Would you limit free speech? 08:40:11 <TrueBrain> nielsm: can you PR that? 08:40:21 <TrueBrain> Wolf01: this has absolutely nothing to do with free speech 08:41:24 *** menelaos[m] has quit IRC 08:41:30 *** menelaos[m] has joined #openttd 08:41:32 <Wolf01> Neither the minorities protection law to be approved by our government, but righthand parties are trying to block it because attacking minorities is considered free speech 08:41:54 <TrueBrain> pretty sure you are in the wrong channel :P 08:41:55 <TrueBrain> :D 08:42:12 <Wolf01> Today everything is free speech 08:43:04 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd 08:43:23 <peter1138> "Free Speech" is usually cried only by cunts who want to be cuntish. 08:43:28 <Wolf01> Yup 08:43:48 <andythenorth> happy Friday 08:43:55 * andythenorth wandered into a conversation? :) 08:43:59 <andythenorth> I HAD A LIE IN 08:44:00 <Wolf01> Nah 08:44:04 <andythenorth> slept until 9am 08:44:06 <andythenorth> this NEVER HAPPENS 08:44:36 <Wolf01> I was able to sleep 7 hours this night too, I didn't sleep that long for weeks 08:44:46 <peter1138> I slept long and I'm still shattered. 08:44:50 <andythenorth> oof 08:44:56 <andythenorth> have a day off 08:45:04 <peter1138> And also it's cold again so I don't feel like getting the bike out :( 08:45:26 <Wolf01> Cold again here too :( 08:48:11 <Wolf01> We bathed the cat today, now it looks like a rat 08:48:42 <andythenorth> cat, rat, hat 08:49:05 <andythenorth> mat, bat, lat 08:49:17 * andythenorth should do lat stretches 08:49:26 *** FLHerne has joined #openttd 08:49:32 <andythenorth> how do I reply on a Steam? 08:49:32 <Wolf01> English is funny, you just change a letter and get 20 different words 08:49:41 <andythenorth> I probably have an account or something 08:52:26 <Wolf01> Uh, looks like Jan Zeleny didn't take so well OTTD on Steam :P 08:56:52 *** jottyfan has joined #openttd 08:57:38 <andythenorth> more kindness needed 08:58:18 <TrueBrain> I dunno Wolf01 , I think it is a clever way to know what you should work on for your product 08:58:20 <TrueBrain> I like it :D 08:58:30 <andythenorth> I don't like some of the comments though 08:58:42 <andythenorth> doing a solo game on this scale must be mentally crushing 08:59:07 <Wolf01> TrueBrain: but it's a bit harsh to ask it, even politely, in another game forum :P 08:59:21 <andythenorth> I think it's fine no? 08:59:34 <TrueBrain> I think that makes him a good developer, honestly 08:59:40 <TrueBrain> not being scared of what else is out there 08:59:50 <TrueBrain> we tend to be more like: NOTHING outside OpenTTD exists! 08:59:54 <andythenorth> I see no contest of conflict between OpenTTD and any of the derivatives 08:59:57 <TrueBrain> which .. has its drawbacks :P 09:00:06 <andythenorth> contest or conflict * 09:00:28 <andythenorth> the only conflict was with TTDPatch and we won that 09:00:46 <Wolf01> That was natural selection, not a conflict 09:00:55 <andythenorth> I have been told that before 09:01:04 <FLHerne> Wolf01: Did he? This thread just seems like curiosity to me https://steamcommunity.com/app/1536610/discussions/0/3076496088111586001/ 09:01:08 <andythenorth> but if you were making newgrfs at the time it was a conflict 09:01:11 <FLHerne> was there another one? 09:01:12 <andythenorth> there were battles and deaths 09:01:21 <Wolf01> And I still prefer TTDP for many features OTTD doesn't have (yet) 09:01:37 <andythenorth> there is a newsletter about that you can join 09:01:39 <FLHerne> I like that the second-most-helpful review is " f*** you flefingbridge transport 1" 09:01:51 <andythenorth> internet still has a sense of humour 09:03:08 <andythenorth> so which AI should be default? 09:03:13 <andythenorth> and when are trams included getting? 09:03:21 <TrueBrain> okay, I did not know Mashinky existed 09:03:23 <TrueBrain> but fuck that looks good 09:03:51 <andythenorth> doesn't it 09:04:32 <andythenorth> every derivative is a positive IMO 09:04:54 <andythenorth> shows interesting things 09:05:09 <andythenorth> reduces pressure to 'turn OpenTTD into X' because X is offered by something else 09:05:45 <TrueBrain> I had to reply that I think it looks very nice 09:06:30 <andythenorth> pls play it and let me know if I should get it 09:06:32 <andythenorth> thx bai 09:06:50 <TrueBrain> I have other plans for the next few weeks, I am afraid 09:07:14 <_dp_> lol, how did you miss mashinky? I think I alone mentioned it here at least 10 times :P 09:07:19 <Wolf01> andythenorth: I think it's a good purchase 09:07:29 <_dp_> unfortunately it seems that good looks is the only thing it has :( 09:07:32 <TrueBrain> _dp_: pretty sure I zone out most of the time when you talk :P :P :P 09:07:34 <TrueBrain> sorry, that is mean 09:07:37 <TrueBrain> but you were asking for it :D 09:07:42 <TrueBrain> I don't mean it btw :) 09:07:44 <Wolf01> _dp_: 9 of 10 by me probably :P 09:07:58 <TrueBrain> sometimes it is too easy to make a joke :P 09:08:05 <TrueBrain> but no, I read the word .. just never looked it up 09:08:07 <_dp_> >:) 09:09:10 <nielsm> checked the negative reviews on steam, I guess maybe "the music starts really loud" is a good point, reducing the default volume to 50% might be an idea 09:09:31 <nielsm> and that adding volume controls to the game options window thing 09:09:55 <Wolf01> Or a mini-player directly to the toolbar even 09:10:17 <nielsm> the problem is volume controls on the main menu 09:10:43 <Wolf01> Yeah, that is most important 09:12:49 <andythenorth> I like the full-volume music at start 09:12:51 <andythenorth> very 90s 09:12:58 <andythenorth> reminds of the huge mac startup chime 09:13:18 <andythenorth> which became problematic when I used to work late on macs that crashed a lot 09:13:26 <andythenorth> working in same room as my now-wife 09:14:22 *** nielsm has quit IRC 09:19:08 <_dp_> I'm trying hard not to buy starsector these days 09:19:16 <_dp_> mashinky didn't last even a few days for me 09:19:27 <_dp_> though it was way back when it just came out 09:20:04 *** pothyurf[m] has quit IRC 09:20:11 *** pothyurf[m] has joined #openttd 09:20:15 *** roadt_ has joined #openttd 09:22:44 *** nielsm has joined #openttd 09:23:43 <Wolf01> The only thing I don't really like from mashinky is that you are somewhat forced to change era every now and then, or you are missing a lot of opportunities and you must even upgrade your network accordingly or industries might stop working because they lack the new materials and might not accept some of the old ones 09:24:06 <andythenorth> "I tend to live in a bubble" 09:24:14 <andythenorth> I am going to make a t-shirt with that on for TrueBrain 09:24:16 <andythenorth> :D 09:24:17 <TrueBrain> :D 09:24:22 <andythenorth> or a baseball cap 09:24:58 <andythenorth> ok FIRS 4.0.0 is done 09:25:04 <andythenorth> most important thing to everyone 09:25:06 <andythenorth> so what now? 09:25:27 * andythenorth plays Blitz while OpenTTD management team decides 09:25:46 <peter1138> Release it, then realise it's got a game-breaking bug and revoke it all and work on it for another 2 years. 09:25:56 <andythenorth> YES 09:25:59 <nielsm> also just want to say, I learned of this a little while ago and it's stolen a lot of my time now: https://bitrich.itch.io/railroute 09:27:14 *** roadt__ has quit IRC 09:27:28 *** FLHerne has quit IRC 09:27:42 <peter1138> Hmm, this "Control" game appears to have RTX ray tracing. You can tell from the visual glitches... 09:28:14 <Wolf01> nielsm: that looks like a bit of train valley :P 09:28:43 <nielsm> Wolf01 it plays very differently tho 09:29:34 <nielsm> train valley is pressuring you to make hacks to get trains through, RR lets you take things at your own pace and build a good network before expanding 09:30:14 <Wolf01> But you still have to control it manually or there is a sort of automation? 09:30:29 <nielsm> you can make full rule-based automation in RR 09:31:20 <Wolf01> So you start as train valley and end up having OTTD :P 09:31:34 <Wolf01> Both without graphics 09:34:29 <nielsm> it's definitely a niche game 09:36:13 <Wolf01> It still might be more fun than the sum of the 2, sometimes is the core idea which works well and all the other "decorations" are just distracting, specially when you are forced to use them and they are not fun 09:36:30 *** sla_ro|master has quit IRC 09:37:48 <nielsm> it's very focused on timetabling and making sure the trains can run their routes reliably 09:41:16 <peter1138> Oh god, I just remembered I used to have a patch to manually control trains... 09:41:27 <peter1138> I have... no idea why. 09:41:47 <Wolf01> Ahah maybe for traffic jams 09:43:26 <andythenorth> because you could 09:43:34 <Wolf01> That too 09:51:19 <andythenorth> I guess I should make the FIRS cargoflow charts....not broken :) 09:51:22 <andythenorth> they miss some cargos 09:51:36 <andythenorth> also I need to delete these restaurant cars from Iron Horse 09:51:40 <andythenorth> LC has proven they break the game 09:52:27 <andythenorth> oh I think I need to login to steam and join comments :) 09:53:01 <Wolf01> BTW, yesterday I was joking, but in reality I'm thinking to try to work on map rotation for real since last year... I already have some ideas but I really don't know if they are applyable to OTTD, what could go well? :P 09:55:06 <andythenorth> why does my name in steam show as 'steam' 09:55:08 <andythenorth> weird 09:55:47 <_dp_> hm... now, how do I build 1.11? azure looks pretty dead and I'm totally clueless about github actions 09:55:56 <_dp_> is there some simple way to just trigger a build with gha? 09:56:44 <andythenorth> shall I make an AI and call it 'Default AI' on bananas? 09:57:02 <Wolf01> Why not? 09:57:15 <Wolf01> I wanted to try to make one too 09:58:30 <andythenorth> maybe I have a shave 10:00:05 <TrueBrain> I like Jan :D 10:00:12 <TrueBrain> the more I talk to other devs 10:00:16 <TrueBrain> the more I realise we all have the same issues 10:00:23 <TrueBrain> and are solving them one by one again and again 10:00:27 <TrueBrain> such a waste of energy :P 10:00:45 <Wolf01> Automete it! 10:00:46 <andythenorth> are the issues 'community' 10:00:48 <andythenorth> 'hosting' 10:00:52 <andythenorth> 'build automation' 10:00:57 <andythenorth> 'cross platform compiles' 10:01:03 <andythenorth> 'contributors' 10:01:56 <andythenorth> :P 10:02:01 <_dp_> TrueBrain, openttd+mashinky merge when? :p 10:02:01 <TrueBrain> in the last 2 days I found a wide spectrum of similar issues 10:02:09 <TrueBrain> from releasing on Steam to Discord integration 10:02:22 <TrueBrain> from dealing with bullies to updating your users 10:02:26 <TrueBrain> its funny 10:04:09 <_dp_> looking at that shitshow on steam discussions I'm somewhat happy I didn't make 1.11 server in time xD 10:04:45 <andythenorth> what's all this steam trading card crap? 10:04:50 <andythenorth> Iron Horse 2 trading cards when? 10:04:55 * andythenorth is a steam noob 10:05:18 <Wolf01> Uh, this evening there is the livestream, I should not forget 10:05:38 <andythenorth> me neither 10:05:42 <andythenorth> I should not forget 10:05:44 * _dp_ wants to create a server and call it "Steam Achievements" 10:05:53 <_dp_> oh, it's already 2nd of april, dammit 10:05:56 <Wolf01> andythenorth: that would be a problem :P 10:06:20 <andythenorth> hype 10:06:33 <Wolf01> What for? :D 10:06:48 <andythenorth> I think it has just become a thing to say 10:07:29 <andythenorth> did anyone automate S3 for me yet? 10:09:00 <TrueBrain> right, good point, I should be back on time .. I can completely see myself forget the livestream tonight and be late :P 10:16:33 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/nml] werbfred updated pull request #199: Add: support of square root and round functions to builtin functions https://git.io/JYrhN 10:16:48 *** FLHerne has joined #openttd 10:19:48 *** frosch123 has joined #openttd 10:37:49 *** FLHerne has quit IRC 10:41:03 <frosch123> haha, i love roundtrips in conversation. when you initiate something with someone, and then it spreads through a chain of people, until it returns to you via another person 10:43:50 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/BaNaNaS] frosch123 opened pull request #88: Change: migrate OpenTTD user StarRaid to GitHub user StarRaid https://git.io/JY6LH 10:47:03 <peter1138> Wait, the database is in git? 10:47:30 <frosch123> the public part, not the secrets 10:47:52 <frosch123> same for the wiki, dorpsgek and what's not 11:04:55 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/BaNaNaS] TrueBrain approved pull request #88: Change: migrate OpenTTD user StarRaid to GitHub user StarRaid https://git.io/JY6YT 11:05:00 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/BaNaNaS] TrueBrain merged pull request #88: Change: migrate OpenTTD user StarRaid to GitHub user StarRaid https://git.io/JY6LH 11:13:06 *** FLHerne has joined #openttd 11:26:52 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenSFX] Wuzzy2 opened pull request #41: Fix install location of 'make install' https://git.io/JY6sf 11:29:15 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenMSX] Wuzzy2 opened pull request #20: Fix install location of 'make install' https://git.io/JY6sV 11:29:31 *** virtualrandomnumber has joined #openttd 11:29:54 *** virtualrandomnumber has quit IRC 11:31:29 <Timberwolf> Time to wash car, then make sure livestream install is set up and working. 11:31:51 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenMSX] Wuzzy2 opened pull request #21: Readme text cleanup https://git.io/JY6GJ 11:34:49 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenMSX] orudge commented on pull request #21: Readme text cleanup https://git.io/JY6GK 11:35:33 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenMSX] orudge commented on pull request #21: Readme text cleanup https://git.io/JY6GM 11:35:57 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenGFX] Wuzzy2 opened pull request #66: Remove 'How to Apply' section in LICENSE https://git.io/JY6GQ 11:37:22 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenGFX] orudge commented on pull request #66: Remove 'How to Apply' section in LICENSE https://git.io/JY6ZU 11:37:25 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenGFX] orudge closed pull request #66: Remove 'How to Apply' section in LICENSE https://git.io/JY6GQ 11:40:32 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenMSX] TrueBrain commented on pull request #21: Readme text cleanup https://git.io/JY6Zw 11:40:45 <TrueBrain> optimizing for window size in OpenTTD ... we all tried that once in our lives :D 11:41:18 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenMSX] Wuzzy2 commented on pull request #21: Readme text cleanup https://git.io/JY6ZX 11:41:44 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenSFX] FLHerne commented on pull request #41: Fix install location of 'make install' https://git.io/JY6ZH 11:43:45 <andythenorth> eddi is doing community management :) 11:45:44 <FLHerne> _dp_: What's the problem with Maschinky? Looks very like 3d-rendered OTTD from the screenshots 11:45:55 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenMSX] Wuzzy2 commented on pull request #21: Readme text cleanup https://git.io/JY6nn 11:45:58 <FLHerne> Limited signalling/timetables, like Locomotion? 11:47:08 <TrueBrain> someone stepped out of bed on the wrong side, it seams :P 11:47:28 <_dp_> FLHerne, idk, last time I checked it was just a pretty demo. No gameplay, no multiplayer, no linux :p 11:47:31 <andythenorth> just needs more coffee 11:47:37 * andythenorth general answer to all questions ^ 11:47:38 <TrueBrain> seams? 11:47:41 <TrueBrain> I need more coffee too 11:47:41 <TrueBrain> lol 11:47:45 <TrueBrain> wtf .. writing english hard 11:47:48 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenSFX] Wuzzy2 updated pull request #41: Fix install location of 'make install' https://git.io/JY6sf 11:47:49 <andythenorth> I can't 11:48:00 <andythenorth> I look at logs sometimes and wonder how I write anything 11:48:19 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenMSX] Wuzzy2 updated pull request #20: Fix install location of 'make install' https://git.io/JY6sV 11:49:37 <_dp_> it actually could be very cool if mashinky and openttd somehow miraculously merged 11:49:42 <_dp_> because each has what other don't 11:50:40 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenSFX] Wuzzy2 updated pull request #41: Fix install location of 'make install' https://git.io/JY6sf 11:51:22 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenSFX] Wuzzy2 commented on pull request #41: Fix install location of 'make install' https://git.io/JY6ck 11:52:09 <andythenorth> _dp_ GS 11:52:18 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/nml] werbfred commented on pull request #199: Add: support of square root and round functions to builtin functions https://git.io/JY6cs 11:53:43 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenMSX] orudge commented on pull request #21: Readme text cleanup https://git.io/JY6cE 11:54:36 <TrueBrain> lets do another game of: guess how many people install OpenTTD on Steam :P 11:54:38 <TrueBrain> any takers? 11:54:56 <frosch123> 50k 11:55:04 <TrueBrain> Lifetime free licenses (?) 58,444 11:55:05 <TrueBrain> not bad :D 11:55:44 <TrueBrain> its funny, some stats are still meaningless 11:55:48 <TrueBrain> like "Average time played" 11:55:53 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenMSX] Wuzzy2 updated pull request #20: Fix install location of 'make install' https://git.io/JY6sV 11:56:01 <frosch123> 10 minutes? 11:56:12 <TrueBrain> 41 minutes atm 11:56:15 <TrueBrain> median is at 8 11:56:35 <TrueBrain> there are people that already have the game running for 200+ minutes 11:56:45 <TrueBrain> over 1000 people, in fact 11:56:57 <TrueBrain> most seems to have started the game and closed it 11:56:59 <andythenorth> some people will have failed to sleep 11:57:10 <andythenorth> that thing where you first find OpenTTD 11:57:11 <andythenorth> then it's 4am 11:57:23 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenMSX] Wuzzy2 updated pull request #20: Fix install location of 'make install' https://git.io/JY6sV 11:57:37 <TrueBrain> and also on Steam, it is mostly a Western Europe game :) 11:57:43 <TrueBrain> ~40% of the players 11:58:07 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenMSX] Wuzzy2 commented on pull request #20: Fix install location of 'make install' https://git.io/JY6CT 12:00:50 <andythenorth> I have banned child #1 from the m1 for using discord when he was told he's not allowed 12:00:54 <andythenorth> so I am testing OpenTTD on it 12:01:40 <frosch123> dot: graph is too large for cairo-renderer bitmaps. Scaling by 0.214633 to fit 12:02:45 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenMSX] Wuzzy2 updated pull request #21: Readme text cleanup https://git.io/JY6GJ 12:03:48 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenMSX] Wuzzy2 updated pull request #21: Readme text cleanup https://git.io/JY6GJ 12:03:53 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/nml] FLHerne commented on pull request #199: Add: support of square root and round functions to builtin functions https://git.io/JY6C9 12:04:00 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenMSX] Wuzzy2 commented on pull request #21: Readme text cleanup https://git.io/JY6CQ 12:04:30 <andythenorth> FML landscape generator is slow on 4k x 4k maps 12:04:31 <andythenorth> so slow 12:05:52 <andythenorth> oh this is interesting 12:06:14 <andythenorth> on 512 x 256 map, the M1 keeps up for all combinations of hidpi / hardware acceleration / full animation on off 12:06:24 <andythenorth> uncapped ffwd speed is about 300x 12:06:53 <andythenorth> on a 4k x 4k map it can barely run the game at 1x without FFWD, with hidpi and full animation off 12:06:56 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/nml] werbfred commented on pull request #199: Add: support of square root and round functions to builtin functions https://git.io/JY6WC 12:08:32 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/nml] FLHerne commented on pull request #199: Add: support of square root and round functions to builtin functions https://git.io/JY6W2 12:08:43 <andythenorth> ok on an M1 the hidpi, full animation and hardware acceleration bools make very little difference to performance so far 12:09:31 <andythenorth> map size however 12:09:39 <andythenorth> makes a huge difference 12:09:48 <orudge> andythenorth: just checking, it is running natively, not with Rosetta? (Steam forces the latter unfortunately) 12:09:55 <orudge> I don't know that I tested 4096x4096 maps to be fair 12:09:57 <orudge> I never use them myself 12:10:01 <andythenorth> same 12:10:24 *** supermop_Home_ has joined #openttd 12:10:25 <andythenorth> it's running Rosetta 12:10:32 <supermop_Home_> yo 12:10:46 <andythenorth> I can change a flag in the bundle? 12:10:47 * andythenorth looks 12:11:59 <andythenorth> oh the native performance on a 64x64 map is ridiculous 12:12:10 <orudge> If you run OpenTTD.app directly, it shouldn't go via Rosetta 12:12:15 <andythenorth> yup 12:12:29 <orudge> It's just that Steam is under Rosetta, and Rosetta-usage is "sticky" 12:13:00 <andythenorth> :) 12:13:28 <andythenorth> the native M1 performance on 4k^2 is similar to my i9 12:14:51 <andythenorth> ok enough of that :) 12:14:55 <andythenorth> 'data points' 12:15:02 <orudge> Ooh, we're back up near our all-time peak again 12:15:08 <orudge> 1465 players, peak was 1477 12:16:30 *** FLHerne_ has joined #openttd 12:17:13 *** FLHerne has quit IRC 12:17:56 <andythenorth> TL:DR mac m1 performance is outstandingly good on smaller maps (up to 1024 x 1024 or so) 12:18:07 <andythenorth> above, that, it drops off 12:18:24 * andythenorth didn't test with actual savegames, just ffwd on empty maps 12:20:23 <andythenorth> switch will be named like 'switch_spritelayer_cargos_intermodal_cars_default_16px' 12:20:29 <andythenorth> with variants for different lengths 12:20:57 <FLHerne_> M1 has surprisingly big L2 cache of 12MB, which probably means the map array would fit entirely in cache for small maps but not big ones 12:21:11 <FLHerne_> Not sure if that's a correct speculation though 12:25:24 <milek7_> hmm 12:25:38 <milek7_> why changing 'Maximum zoom in level' changes UI size? 12:27:36 <frosch123> it limits what sprites are loaded 12:28:05 <frosch123> it's more of a "reduce memory" setting, than a "limit mouse wheel" setting :p 12:32:20 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] ldpl commented on pull request #8805: Feature: Allow client and server to negotiate on compression to use for the savegame https://git.io/JY64r 12:33:04 <andythenorth> goes it throw out livery gui? 12:33:33 * andythenorth has a sort of idea about auto-replace, auto-renew, consist management and applying train skins / adjusting properties 12:33:44 <andythenorth> but not a drawing :P 12:35:28 *** FLHerne has joined #openttd 12:36:28 *** FLHerne_ has quit IRC 12:37:15 <andythenorth> maybe Consist Builder as working title :P 12:37:21 <andythenorth> names are important, yes / no? 12:52:15 <supermop_Home_> sure 12:56:36 <nielsm> how much traffic is bananas getting? 13:05:46 <andythenorth> this gets old https://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=67&t=44177&p=1243229#p1243229 13:06:02 <andythenorth> if I knew all the vehicle set grfids, I could disable FIRS if none are found? 13:06:08 <andythenorth> can we automate that from Bananas somehow? 13:06:30 <andythenorth> we could parse grfs to find out what they contain? And if they contain vehicles, check the cargo refits? 13:06:51 <andythenorth> then I could pull that as JSON or something, and use it in FIRS compile? 13:07:04 <andythenorth> and disable if no grfs are supported 13:11:55 <orudge> Oh hey, there's still a MorphOS build of OpenTTD 13:11:58 <orudge> not that I have ever used MorphOS 13:12:00 <orudge> but it's nice to know 13:15:22 <TrueBrain> how is the OS/2 build going? :P :P :P 13:15:26 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] btzy commented on pull request #8926: Fix #8922: Show vehicle window for single vehicle in shared order grouping https://git.io/JY62c 13:16:16 <orudge> There's even a MorphOS cross-compiler docker image available, we could do nightlies ;) 13:16:26 <TrueBrain> no 13:16:27 <TrueBrain> :P 13:16:37 <orudge> TrueBrain: eh... if I can ever get the cross-compiler working :P 13:16:44 <orudge> but right now other things are perhaps higher priority 13:17:11 <TrueBrain> I think that is literally true always :P 13:17:21 <TrueBrain> I mean .. those 2 users survive without a binary :D 13:17:23 <TrueBrain> <3 13:18:29 <TrueBrain> #302 .. will we break #300 today? 13:19:42 <orudge> 1716 players now o/ 13:30:18 <FLHerne> andythenorth: "coal truck's capacity is 30,000 litres of alcohol" <- I don't see how that can happen even with the base vehicles? 13:30:30 <andythenorth> cargo ordering breaks refits 13:30:33 <FLHerne> Do they use some hardcoded cargo slots rather than labels? 13:30:37 <andythenorth> of course :) 13:30:43 <FLHerne> Well that's daft 13:31:03 <andythenorth> we can't change them because backwards compatibility and purity 13:31:06 <andythenorth> or something 13:31:14 <andythenorth> it's been discussed more than once :P 13:31:24 * andythenorth doesn't want to gatekeep improvements though 13:31:27 <andythenorth> maybe that was former us 13:31:40 <andythenorth> it's just funny 13:31:51 <andythenorth> I mean it would be way easier to just include vehicles in FIRS 13:36:20 <FLHerne> "Squid-FIRS Iron Hog" ? 13:36:27 <andythenorth> seems to make sense 13:36:30 <FLHerne> "with CHIPS" 13:36:30 <andythenorth> also Termite 13:36:36 <andythenorth> compile time :( 13:36:48 <andythenorth> package multiple grfs in one container? 13:37:12 <andythenorth> or we could just decide classes for the base vehicles 13:37:23 <andythenorth> will it actuall work? 13:37:28 * andythenorth looks in wiki 13:38:21 <andythenorth> food in temperate is a gap 13:38:49 <andythenorth> and livestock in tropic 13:39:04 <andythenorth> and toyland is just....wtf 13:39:07 <andythenorth> https://wiki.openttd.org/en/Manual/Trains 13:39:17 <andythenorth> liquids -> oil tanker 13:39:23 <andythenorth> piece -> goods van 13:39:27 <andythenorth> bulk -> one of the hoppers 13:40:11 <nielsm> andythenorth I think I suggested it before: include basic refits of the original vehicles in FIRS, but disable them if you detect a known-compatible vehicle set 13:40:24 <andythenorth> it's an idea 13:40:25 <TrueBrain> #294! 13:40:25 <nielsm> (also include a configuration to force disable them) 13:40:41 <andythenorth> TrueBrain :P 13:40:54 <andythenorth> or I just ban FIRS if Iron Horse isn't found 13:41:03 <TrueBrain> we broke the 300 :D 13:41:14 <andythenorth> can we fix it? :) 13:42:14 <TrueBrain> .... 13:42:22 <TrueBrain> so many words I want to say that I cannot in public 13:42:45 <TrueBrain> gniffels and runs away :P 13:44:52 *** sla_ro|master has joined #openttd 13:45:04 <TrueBrain> some reviews .. "Worth every penny. " 13:45:05 <TrueBrain> :D 13:47:11 * andythenorth looking if Apple M1 can run Risc OS 13:47:24 <andythenorth> I never did get an emulator working on this mac 13:47:30 <andythenorth> peter1138 sent me Chocks Away I think 13:48:21 *** FLHerne has quit IRC 13:48:28 <nielsm> Risc OS might run in an instruction set sense, but probably will need a lot of support to boot, and drivers for graphics, storage and input 13:48:55 * andythenorth looking into whether there's WASM risc os 13:49:10 <andythenorth> just want to play chocks away 13:50:16 <peter1138> Why don't SNES games work on my BBC Micro? It's almost the same CPU... 13:51:12 <peter1138> That said, I do have a RISC OS image running on Pi... 13:51:28 <peter1138> Maybe with the emulator it'll run Chocks Away 13:51:45 *** azulcosta has joined #openttd 13:51:57 <azulcosta> hello again 13:53:20 <azulcosta> i'm trying to use a random_trigger event , but i can't figure out the strings (name of the event) to write in the right.. 13:54:29 <azulcosta> once again, i was trying to use the random_trigger to change speed of a wagon, based on his actual cargo..... i have other code, but, like timberwolf said, it only works when vehicle reverses direction. 13:55:40 <azulcosta> @Timberwolf 14:02:02 <Timberwolf> I've not touched the triggers in anything I've done so far. 14:09:05 *** Progman has quit IRC 14:10:15 <azulcosta> ok, my last try is using the start_stop event to check amount of cargo and change speed values 14:17:12 <peter1138> "petererer played OpenTTD for the first time" sure 14:20:19 <orudge> Nearly at 2000 players... 14:24:44 <_dp_> interestingly mp activity only just nears yesterday's peak 14:33:16 *** Wuzzy has joined #openttd 14:36:27 * Timberwolf is being a rebel and playing DOS Transport Tycoon. 14:37:25 <frosch123> without autorail and without build on slopes? 14:37:36 <Timberwolf> Without one-way signals! 14:37:38 <frosch123> last time i tried, i quit after 5 minutes 14:37:55 <frosch123> ah, TTO, never had that 14:37:57 <Timberwolf> Not being able to drag the bulldozer is the current frustration :) 14:38:41 <andythenorth> 2019 players 14:39:26 <frosch123> how many of them will be on stream? :p 14:43:14 <andythenorth> 3 14:43:28 * andythenorth wonders how many UK people will convert UTC wrong 14:47:55 <azulcosta> ok, so here's the idea: 14:48:44 <azulcosta> checking if wagon is in station, then check it's cargo count, and set aproppriate max speed. so after the train resumes travel, it checks for max speed from loaded cargo from wagons... 14:49:01 <azulcosta> before train resumes speed... 14:52:12 <andythenorth> 'speed' callback https://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/NML:Vehicles#Vehicle_callbacks 14:52:39 <andythenorth> oh you tried stuff already above 14:53:58 <andythenorth> you have confirmed that 'speed' isn't handled simply on visiting a station azulcosta? 14:54:03 * andythenorth would be surprised by that 14:54:05 <frosch123> hmm, grf2html output no longer works 14:54:15 <frosch123> my browser refuses to display images on local disk :p 14:54:37 <andythenorth> oof 14:55:14 <andythenorth> run the python webserver 14:58:48 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/team] marcelosmc opened issue #178: [pt_BR] Translator access request https://git.io/JY67X 14:58:57 <frosch123> oh, nevermind, these sprites just happened to be actually empty :/ 14:59:18 <_dp_> quick grepping tells that game only updates max speed for trains when consist is changed 14:59:31 <azulcosta> i'll leave it as it it's now.... only changes the speed when vehicle is reversed/turn around on stations... don't work when it resumes emptied on same direction when leaving station.... 15:00:35 * andythenorth surprised 15:00:47 <andythenorth> I assumed speed wouldn't be cached through a station load/unload cycle 15:01:04 <andythenorth> "assume nothing" 15:01:23 <frosch123> andythenorth: ok, so i can also show a grf2hml sample, when we talk about it 15:01:25 <azulcosta> well, I was wondering if, i could get some script codes from the bridge speed limit to add it to wagon load/cargo to speed value ? 15:01:27 <frosch123> it will be nutracks 15:01:31 <_dp_> though purr rails work somehow so there mb something else there 15:01:31 <andythenorth> frosch123 \o/ 15:01:36 <frosch123> it's the only thing i still found on my disk :p 15:14:02 *** spnda has joined #openttd 15:14:29 <spnda> 2.1k on Steam :O 15:14:38 <spnda> what does that mean in context of all games on steam? 15:15:38 <frosch123> they want to upgrade the platform to diesel 15:21:03 *** azulcosta has quit IRC 15:24:48 <orudge> spnda: it means we're the 283rd most played game on Steam just now, apparently 15:24:57 <spnda> crazy 15:25:03 <orudge> ahead of, for instance, Age of Mythology Extended Edition 15:25:36 <orudge> But somewhat behind the 1 million people playing CS: GO :) 15:27:31 <nielsm> how many 15+ year old games are that high? 15:28:43 <peter1138> Hmm, tf2 is only 14 years old... sheesh 15:29:29 <orudge> We used to have some fun games of TF2 in #tycoon 15:29:44 <peter1138> Yeah, that's why I remembered it :)( 15:30:02 <peter1138> Back when it wasn't free, nor full of hats. 15:30:13 <orudge> Quite 15:30:18 <peter1138> Simpler times 15:30:21 <orudge> It's probably been 10 years since I've fired up TF2 15:30:42 <peter1138> I loaded it more recently but it's barely recognisable 15:38:53 *** r1c0n3r0 has joined #openttd 15:39:34 *** jgx has joined #openttd 15:45:02 <jgx> Guidance request: Cannot induce cargo reset on bulk wagon, either to fixed or available type. 1.11.0-RC1~33 (but since at least 20210207-master-gaf0acc9a75). I suspect user error, but I ask anyway. OS=Linux (like Ubuntu Bionic) 15:45:43 *** glx has joined #openttd 15:45:43 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v glx 15:46:05 <jgx> This for bulk->wheat or bulk->livestock in sub-arctic game 15:49:34 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 commented on pull request #8805: Feature: Allow client and server to negotiate on compression to use for the savegame https://git.io/JY6hb 15:53:24 *** snail_UES_ has joined #openttd 16:02:09 *** r1c0n3r0 has quit IRC 16:03:14 *** r1c0n3r0 has joined #openttd 16:09:49 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] ldpl updated pull request #8805: Feature: Allow client and server to negotiate on compression to use for the savegame https://git.io/Jqf7C 16:09:57 *** Flygon has quit IRC 16:10:56 <michi_cc> Player count still going up... 16:11:54 <nielsm> USA waking up 16:12:18 <spnda> No. 275 of most played steam games right now 16:14:50 <michi_cc> Which, given the total amount of games on Steam, is really amazing. 16:16:00 <spnda> yeah 16:16:07 <spnda> I mean just look at the competition around that place 16:16:26 <spnda> Call Of Duty, Just Cause, Witcher Games, Half Life, Far Cry 16:16:28 <spnda> it's crazy 16:16:49 <LordAro> morning 16:16:54 <_dp_> any ideas why I may be getting this error? https://pastebin.com/dtzMHbTL 16:16:59 <LordAro> what drama have i missed? 16:17:08 <_dp_> it's only when patched and only on one machine 16:17:18 <_dp_> but I didn't change anything font-related... 16:18:22 <_dp_> freaking cmake is way too magic, no idea where to even start debugging it 16:18:49 <LordAro> _dp_: that looks familiar to something recent 16:19:38 <_dp_> hm, there is https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/issues/8800 16:20:14 <LordAro> that's the one 16:22:23 <_dp_> ffs wtf do I have old CMakeLists.txt o_O 16:26:57 <glx> fix is quite recent (less than a month) 16:28:21 <glx> and my usual way to debug cmake is message(STATUS "whatever I want to print") 16:31:42 <Timberwolf> Even I'm seeing about 30% more views on the channel than normal. And people on my LAN gaming Discord asking for tips. Steam release seems to have stirred up a huge amount of interest in the game, which is great for something that's been around so long. 16:31:52 <_dp_> problem is I've no idea what I want to print xD 16:32:14 <_dp_> I don't have time right now nor do I want to learn cmake, I just want stuff to work like before 16:32:28 *** Gustavo6046 has quit IRC 16:32:52 *** Gustavo6046 has joined #openttd 16:33:50 <LordAro> _dp_: make VERBOSE=1 is generally quite helpful for printing the actual command that's being run 16:34:38 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro commented on pull request #8923: Fix #8922: Crash when selling last member of shared order group while window was open https://git.io/JYiLT 16:34:41 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro closed pull request #8923: Fix #8922: Crash when selling last member of shared order group while window was open https://git.io/JYreP 16:35:24 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh updated pull request #8716: Fix #8713: Change OTTD2FS and FS2OTTD to return string objects https://git.io/Jt9Ha 16:38:05 *** r1c0n3r0 has quit IRC 16:38:12 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/team] W1Z44RD opened issue #179: [ru_RU] Translator access request https://git.io/JYiLS 16:41:42 <nielsm> argh https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/7786 is so old it's before cmake 16:44:05 <glx> do you need help to update ? 16:45:31 <nielsm> I think I'm managing 16:46:06 <glx> yeah seems it should not be too hard, just adding files in the right CMakeLists.txt 16:46:30 <spnda> I think I also had to port #7955 to be CMake compliant 16:47:56 <glx> spnda: probably as cmake was merged in june ;) 16:49:34 <glx> nielsm: some defines may be named differently too 16:52:36 <glx> (but zlib and lzma are not concerned it seems) 16:55:36 <nielsm> wtf visual studio https://0x0.st/-bRs.png 17:04:14 <nielsm> well, it builds now at least 17:04:31 <nielsm> will need a lot of squashing and swishing 17:04:49 <glx> just ignore intellisense before first build :) 17:05:34 <glx> (and in any file containing FOR_XXX loop) 17:09:14 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] btzy updated pull request #8926: Fix #8922: Show vehicle window for single vehicle in shared order grouping https://git.io/JYoqP 17:09:45 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] btzy commented on pull request #8926: Fix #8922: Show vehicle window for single vehicle in shared order grouping https://git.io/JYi3M 17:13:29 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh updated pull request #7786: Add: Help and manuals window https://git.io/JeBQt 17:16:28 *** Zuu has joined #openttd 17:21:19 <snail_UES_> omg Andy, you removed Steel from FIRS? :O 17:21:52 <snail_UES_> now I have no choice but to rework my trainset so it supports your new kinds of cargo… 17:27:53 <andythenorth> I did? 17:27:58 <andythenorth> April 1 is over no? 17:30:00 <snail_UES_> haha 17:30:11 <snail_UES_> you did from the Steeltown economy 17:30:44 <snail_UES_> I guess because your Stainless Steel and Alloy Steel should only appear as ingots? 17:31:13 *** Westie has quit IRC 17:31:46 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh updated pull request #7786: Add: Help and manuals window https://git.io/JeBQt 17:31:58 <andythenorth> or slabs 17:32:09 <LordAro> nielsm: that still needs the extended scrollbars, no? 17:32:33 <nielsm> hmm maybe it does 17:32:45 <andythenorth> snail_UES_ there is an annoying gameplay quirk, visually stainless steel would be good as coils 17:33:01 <andythenorth> but the cargoflow, it doesn't go through a rolling mill, so it won't be coiled sheet 17:33:16 <andythenorth> depends how much you care 17:33:29 <LordAro> nielsm: 8006(?) 17:33:42 <LordAro> it seems very inconsistent as to whether it can handle more than 6k lines or not 17:33:46 <LordAro> windows seems fine 17:33:47 <LordAro> linux not 17:34:00 <snail_UES_> hmm, slabs too? but you’ve also got the “steel sheet” cargo 17:36:17 *** frosch123 has quit IRC 17:36:37 <nielsm> https://0x0.st/-bRp.png question whether to improve the code to handle multiple links per line, or change the documents to only have one link per (physical) line 17:38:19 <LordAro> i mean, the former seems preferable 17:38:27 <LordAro> why would there be a limitation like that? 17:38:46 <nielsm> because it makes hit detection much easier 17:39:15 <nielsm> the entire line is the clickable part, instead of having to figure out which position in the line was clicked 17:44:41 <LordAro> ah, lol 17:46:01 <nielsm> if I do that then I'll suddenly have to run the line breaking algorithm on clicks (if word wrap is enabled and the line has links) 17:47:19 <nielsm> and it gets even more fun if bidi text is involved 17:53:24 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] DorpsGek pushed 1 commits to master https://git.io/JYiWX 17:53:25 <DorpsGek> - Update: Translations from eints (by translators) 17:54:36 <nielsm> hmm I could also make it pop up a menu of the found links in the line if it has more than one, and ask the player to clarify 17:55:48 <milek7_> ouch 17:57:59 <milek7_> I mean it is not that out of place for DOS game with quirky UI, but... 17:58:55 <andythenorth> LIVESTREAM! 17:59:02 <andythenorth> xhttps://www.twitch.tv/openttdlive 18:02:30 <peter1138> Who are these guys? 18:04:26 *** Progman has joined #openttd 18:06:23 *** Progman has quit IRC 18:07:46 *** Wormnest has joined #openttd 18:09:30 *** FLHerne has joined #openttd 18:13:00 <LordAro> just some guys, you know? 18:13:58 <peter1138> I don't know who the 2 other guys are. 18:22:33 *** Wormnest has quit IRC 18:22:49 *** blathijs has quit IRC 18:32:07 <Wolf01> Oh shit, train whack, now I have to play it 18:40:34 *** Wormnest has joined #openttd 18:45:44 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/team] Gubius opened issue #180: [lb_LU] Translator access request https://git.io/JYiuE 18:52:18 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/team] LordAro commented on issue #178: [pt_BR] Translator access request https://git.io/JY67X 18:54:12 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/team] LordAro commented on issue #179: [ru_RU] Translator access request https://git.io/JYiLS 18:58:11 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/team] LordAro opened pull request #181: Change: Link to existing team in request reply message https://git.io/JYizN 18:58:29 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/team] LordAro commented on issue #180: [lb_LU] Translator access request https://git.io/JYiuE 19:00:36 *** FLHerne has quit IRC 19:02:23 *** WormnestAndroid has quit IRC 19:02:24 *** WormnestAndroid has joined #openttd 19:17:32 *** gelignite has joined #openttd 19:19:53 *** FLHerne has joined #openttd 19:36:37 *** frosch123 has joined #openttd 19:37:34 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/team] TrueBrain approved pull request #181: Change: Link to existing team in request reply message https://git.io/JYirB 19:37:49 <LordAro> good stream yalls 19:38:03 <TrueBrain> I laughed a lot :D 19:38:04 <Zuu> yes :-) 19:38:24 <Wolf01> Too bad I understood like 1/10 of what they said, but the parts I understood were funny or interesting 19:40:04 <frosch123> https://strawpoll.com/gb9gh1fpq/r <- who will make the PR :p 19:40:50 <LordAro> 13% from such a small sample shows it's quite highly used :p 19:41:05 <peter1138> All of it or just the vehicle categories? 19:41:13 <andythenorth> vehicle categories 19:41:35 <Zuu> the question was a bit geared towards trains though. If asked about planes maybe it would show different numbers? 19:41:39 <andythenorth> we have group liveries now, way better 19:41:46 <Timberwolf> I could happily see it gone if groups allowed separate colours for "engine" and "wagons" :) 19:42:20 <Zuu> But anyhow great to toss in some polls in the live streams to collect some opinions/usage info. :-) 19:42:54 <LordAro> currently at #239 :) 19:45:14 <andythenorth> also hi Zuu 19:45:36 <Zuu> Hi andythenorth nice to see you on the stream. 19:45:42 <peter1138> I think it was Lakie who designed those categories, although it was extended by someone a little at some point. 19:46:21 <LordAro> andythenorth: the stream thought you looked like an older (but also younger?) Tom Scott, btw 19:46:25 *** blathijs has joined #openttd 19:46:55 <TrueBrain> I can understand that, honestly :) 19:47:06 <andythenorth> every video thing I do someone compares me to someone :) 19:48:41 <Timberwolf> Tom is a friend of a friend of mine, it's a bit weird seeing, "oh, that guy I met a couple of times at parties a few years ago is now really famous on the Internet" 19:49:16 <LordAro> Timberwolf: similarly :) 19:49:24 <LordAro> though i've not actually met him as such 19:55:33 <frosch123> andythenorth: https://github.com/frosch123/quaking/tree/main/stream20210402 <- if you find something useful in those graphs, tell me :p i think they mostly look the same 20:02:15 <nielsm> wth is going on here: https://0x0.st/-b7R.png 20:02:29 <nielsm> I'm not touching shift or capslock keys at all, just typing normally hitting letter keys 20:02:54 *** jottyfan has quit IRC 20:03:05 <FLHerne> what 20:03:20 <FLHerne> Does it behave as if the extra caps letters are there? 20:03:24 <nielsm> if I type sufficiently slowly it doesn't happen 20:03:32 <FLHerne> Or are they just a weird text-rendering artefact? 20:03:46 <nielsm> yes they are actual text that will be parsed 20:04:00 <nielsm> https://0x0.st/-b77.png 20:05:26 <FLHerne> huh 20:05:30 <LordAro> that's gotta be some weird threading issue 20:05:57 <spnda> OpenTTD is trending again on steam 20:06:46 <andythenorth> so bananas download counts are...? 20:07:13 <LordAro> nielsm: can't reproduce on windows/msys 20:07:17 <andythenorth> it's probably the release of FIRS 4 and RUKTS driving new players to Steam TBH 20:07:20 <spnda> andythenorth: Inexistent 20:09:00 <nielsm> LordAro: it might have to do with slow framerate 20:09:01 <michi_cc> Steam holding steady at 2k5 players. 20:09:48 <nielsm> try with large window size, debug build with all the checks enabled and unoptimised codegen, and then also have a text viewer window open on screen 20:10:00 <Zuu> Stream idea: bet on AIs (in a poll) run it 5-10 years fast forward and see who had highest bank balance or company value? 20:10:36 <Timberwolf> Does Rondje om de Kerk still work? :) 20:11:10 <frosch123> Zuu: problem is the huge lag of like 10 seconds 20:11:25 <frosch123> so it is hard to talk about something that you are showing 20:11:33 <Zuu> Not sure if kalahoot can have the correct answer provided as you go, but if possible they have leader board and scoring of poll players :-p 20:11:43 <spnda> frosch123: Not if TrueBrain shows it over Discord. 20:11:44 <nielsm> yeah it's definitely connected to low framerate, if you hit the keys at the wrong time 20:13:18 <Zuu> hmm.. zoom has this webcast license which I don't think lags but I never hosted one only been guest on kalahoot games over zoom. 20:13:59 <michi_cc> Whoo, more players than servers! "There are 531 clients, 439 IPv4 servers and 90 IPv6 servers in this list." 20:14:03 <LordAro> Timberwolf: not reason why it wouldn't 20:14:05 <LordAro> michi_cc: :o 20:14:11 <LordAro> when was the last time that happened? 20:14:48 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/BaNaNaS] frosch123 opened pull request #89: Change: migrate OpenTTD user mkonstapel to GitHub user mkonstapel https://git.io/JYi64 20:17:50 <andythenorth> we use demio or zoom for webcasting 20:18:01 <andythenorth> no particular lags, but it's one presenter at a time usually 20:19:29 <LordAro> spnda: frosch123: yeah, most of the lag is because everything's going via TB's computer 20:20:51 <spnda> its still not gonna lag over discord 20:20:57 <spnda> its like 1 second delay or something 20:21:07 <spnda> because itll make quality suffer if the delay is gonna be high 20:21:47 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh opened issue #8930: Duplicate text input under slow framerates https://git.io/JYiif 20:24:39 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/BaNaNaS] TrueBrain approved pull request #89: Change: migrate OpenTTD user mkonstapel to GitHub user mkonstapel https://git.io/JYiiL 20:24:44 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/BaNaNaS] TrueBrain merged pull request #89: Change: migrate OpenTTD user mkonstapel to GitHub user mkonstapel https://git.io/JYi64 20:25:12 <andythenorth> I should do this https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/so-i-water-cooled-my-macbook-pro.2290339/ 20:25:14 <andythenorth> because race car 20:25:36 <frosch123> TrueBrain: 40% of packages, 23% of authors, migrated :) 20:25:52 <TrueBrain> getting there :D 20:26:11 <LordAro> i must migrate myself at some point :p 20:26:45 <frosch123> new aroai release? 20:27:13 <LordAro> there are a couple of longstanding crashing issues when you have some weird set of newgrfs... 20:27:39 <peter1138> Remove it 20:27:50 <frosch123> haha, you are kind of a unicorn. you exist as both openttd-account and github-account 20:28:01 <LordAro> i did wonder 20:28:12 <LordAro> i have access to open*x after all 20:28:45 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/BaNaNaS] frosch123 opened pull request #90: Change: migrate OpenTTD user LordAro to GitHub user LordAro https://git.io/JYii2 20:28:56 <LordAro> :D 20:29:06 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro opened pull request #8931: Remove blob https://git.io/JYiiw 20:29:10 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] James103 commented on issue #8930: Duplicate text input under slow framerates https://git.io/JYiif 20:29:20 <LordAro> hmm, i was going to improve the title of that 20:29:21 <LordAro> ah well 20:29:28 <TrueBrain> it fits 20:30:02 <LordAro> it does :) 20:30:20 <LordAro> ...and that broke quickly 20:30:30 *** Zuu has quit IRC 20:30:34 <LordAro> gah, cmake 20:30:41 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/nml] FLHerne updated pull request #199: Add: support of square root and round functions to builtin functions https://git.io/JYrhN 20:30:50 *** Zuu has joined #openttd 20:30:58 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/BaNaNaS] LordAro approved pull request #90: Change: migrate OpenTTD user LordAro to GitHub user LordAro https://git.io/JYiiX 20:31:20 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/BaNaNaS] LordAro merged pull request #90: Change: migrate OpenTTD user LordAro to GitHub user LordAro https://git.io/JYii2 20:31:43 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/team] LordAro merged pull request #181: Change: Link to existing team in request reply message https://git.io/JYizN 20:32:08 *** WormnestAndroid has quit IRC 20:32:17 <andythenorth> hmm 20:32:20 <andythenorth> maybe I make some newgrf 20:32:33 *** WormnestAndroid has joined #openttd 20:33:02 <LordAro> ships! 20:33:04 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro updated pull request #8931: Remove blob https://git.io/JYiiw 20:33:32 <andythenorth> well I need to delete the restaurant cars from Iron Horse 20:33:42 <andythenorth> oof that's fiddly, can't just revert the commit 20:34:00 <FLHerne> andythenorth: Restaurant cars are nice :-( 20:34:20 <frosch123> TrueBrain: how is your bingo card doing? https://www.reddit.com/r/openttd/comments/miic0h/is_there_a_way_to_change_the_profit_background/ 20:34:26 <andythenorth> should they just be eye candy FLHerne? 20:34:32 <FLHerne> The costs don't matter, it's just nice to have restaurant cars 20:34:34 <andythenorth> same pax capacity as luxury cars? 20:34:40 <andythenorth> no game effect? 20:34:41 <TrueBrain> in stream it was asked a few times too 20:34:43 <TrueBrain> by the same person 20:34:50 <TrueBrain> owh, that is all the same person 20:34:51 <TrueBrain> :D 20:34:56 <frosch123> loud minority :) 20:35:23 <FLHerne> andythenorth: I kind of like the idea of the game effect, but you know my opinion of how irrelevant all costs are 20:35:36 <andythenorth> well it has been proven to be wrong and broken 20:35:43 <FLHerne> So probably tmwftlb 20:35:52 <andythenorth> and I can't be bothered to test trains on ffwd for half a day again 20:35:56 <glx> andythenorth: how many times a day do you hit the ceiling ? 20:36:06 <andythenorth> glx maybe twice? 20:36:20 <FLHerne> If you tested it that much, how can the effect be wrong? 20:36:46 <andythenorth> the fact that I missed the obvious bug does not aid my love for the feature :D 20:36:47 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/website] michicc opened pull request #204: Add: Announcement for April 9 livestream https://git.io/JYiPm 20:36:47 <FLHerne> I guess that makes the purchase-window number wrong instead, but who cares 20:37:00 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh commented on issue #8930: Duplicate text input under slow framerates https://git.io/JYiif 20:37:03 <andythenorth> the bug is so blatant if you stop and do maths :) 20:37:07 <andythenorth> I didn't :( 20:37:07 <michi_cc> LordAro, Timberwolf: I put you two in as participants for now, to be confirmed. 20:37:20 <michi_cc> TrueBrain: Well, and you too :) 20:37:34 <TrueBrain> :D 20:37:56 <michi_cc> YouTube link needs to be filled in (or removed) before posting. 20:39:01 <FLHerne> frosch123: Mind approving nml#199 (new builtins) above? Changes look good now, I just squashed the pile of fixup commits together 20:39:39 <FLHerne> I'll address the error-message wording chaos in another PR, it kind of spiraled :p 20:40:19 <andythenorth> hmm 20:40:47 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TedB86 opened issue #8932: Maximum initial loan amount does not match Game Settings https://git.io/JYiPi 20:40:50 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/nml] frosch123 approved pull request #199: Add: support of square root and round functions to builtin functions https://git.io/JYiPP 20:40:56 <andythenorth> kinda said this on the stream but the restaurant cars depend on the cargo aging feature, and that's so map and playstyle dependent 20:41:20 <andythenorth> it's a bit lolz to even try and use, except to force commuter vehicles for towns to be horrible 20:41:35 *** jottyfan has joined #openttd 20:43:03 *** Gustavo6046_ has joined #openttd 20:43:30 *** FLHerne_ has joined #openttd 20:43:34 * andythenorth wonders about virtual cargo 20:43:50 *** Gustavo6046 has quit IRC 20:43:50 *** Gustavo6046_ is now known as Gustavo6046 20:43:53 <andythenorth> so that station would load / unload, e.g. 40 pax 20:44:03 <andythenorth> but payment algorithm is told that it's e.g. 60 pax 20:44:15 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro commented on issue #8932: Maximum initial loan amount does not match Game Settings https://git.io/JYiPi 20:44:17 <andythenorth> not sure if that works with transfers 20:44:32 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/nml] frosch123 merged pull request #199: Add: support of square root and round functions to builtin functions https://git.io/JYrhN 20:45:01 <glx> I received a PM during live about city coverage display issue 20:45:31 <glx> gave link to github, but suggested to try forum first 20:47:03 <glx> message was "Hello! I see that city coverage does not work" and wanted to send me a screenshot 20:47:25 <andythenorth> probably just where the tile boundary is drawn, again? 20:48:01 <glx> dunno 20:48:14 <andythenorth> been reported a few times recently 20:48:26 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro commented on issue #8930: Duplicate text input under slow framerates https://git.io/JYiif 20:48:55 <peter1138> What's that "this feature from a patch pack doesn't work in vanilla"? 20:50:03 *** FLHerne has quit IRC 20:50:08 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/nml] frosch123 commented on pull request #199: Add: support of square root and round functions to builtin functions https://git.io/JYiXR 20:50:34 <nielsm> hmm can it be right that SCC_PUSH_COLOR control codes are stripped during text layout, and SCC_POP_COLOR control codes are then replaced with the actual color code from the stack? 20:51:01 <frosch123> plausible 20:51:06 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TedB86 commented on issue #8932: Maximum initial loan amount does not match Game Settings https://git.io/JYiPi 20:51:17 <nielsm> because it appears character indexes move between me generating the formatted text, and querying the layouter for character positions 20:51:20 <frosch123> languages like tamil or arabic reorder a lot of letters 20:51:26 <frosch123> so colours have to be reordered as well 20:51:34 <nielsm> this is plain english tho 20:51:36 <frosch123> can be split and reappear multiple tmies 20:53:22 *** Samu has joined #openttd 20:53:51 <nielsm> it's not a question of text or glyph reordering, it's a question of a substring I put at position X being at position X-3 (utf8 coding length 3 bytes for control codes) when I query the layouter for which character is at some coordinate 20:56:58 *** Samu has quit IRC 20:59:23 <frosch123> FLHerne_: what about #173 ? :) 20:59:50 <FLHerne_> Oh, that 21:00:22 <FLHerne_> I think I found the only clean way to do it involved rewriting the world 21:01:50 <FLHerne_> Then I started rewriting the world and got frustrated 21:01:56 <FLHerne_> Perhaps I should look again 21:02:01 *** FLHerne_ is now known as FLHerne 21:03:33 <LordAro> TrueBrain: i think i've found a way to remove array.hpp as well ..but it involves some if constexpr 21:03:40 *** Progman has joined #openttd 21:04:03 <TrueBrain> go for it :D 21:04:57 <nielsm> oh hmm... the layouter does seem to not care for formatting codes at all, actually 21:05:04 *** sla_ro|master2 has joined #openttd 21:05:07 <nielsm> troublesome 21:07:03 *** sla_ro|master has quit IRC 21:08:44 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 commented on pull request #8931: Remove blob https://git.io/JYi1j 21:09:46 <glx> silly no other compiler reported it 21:09:52 <LordAro> heh 21:09:57 <LordAro> yeah, that's a dumbdumb 21:10:04 <LordAro> size -> empty, but didn't remove the >0 21:16:30 <andythenorth> what if I just removed all cargo aging adjustment from Iron Horse? o_O 21:16:35 <andythenorth> that might be a thing 21:17:06 <andythenorth> I level out vehicles in most dimensions 21:17:11 <andythenorth> 'just eye candy' 21:20:15 *** supermop_Home_ has quit IRC 21:21:14 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro updated pull request #8931: Remove blob https://git.io/JYiiw 21:22:04 <LordAro> +114 −956 21:22:08 <LordAro> this is a good PR 21:22:15 <glx> yes nice numbers 21:23:06 <LordAro> basically everything in misc is "potentially generic stuff but only YAPF uses it" 21:25:17 <TrueBrain> yup! 21:26:57 <glx> hmm even with a game running at less than 4fps I can't reproduce the input duplication 21:30:50 <frosch123> hmm, still can't switch to c++20 21:31:13 <glx> c++20 has nice stuff 21:33:12 <LordAro> modules! 21:33:15 <LordAro> coroutines! 21:33:21 <glx> std::format 21:33:26 <LordAro> but there is no compiler that actually supports them yet 21:33:41 <frosch123> exactly, i was thinking of std::format when reading 8931 :) 21:33:56 <LordAro> i mean, i mentioned it in the description :p 21:34:09 <glx> it's in boost :P 21:34:17 <LordAro> /kick glx 21:34:18 <frosch123> i read descriptions last, for some reason :p 21:34:24 <frosch123> they spoil too much about the diff 21:34:29 <LordAro> haha 21:34:41 <frosch123> anyway, coroutines won't fly before c++23 21:34:51 <frosch123> no library support in c++20 21:34:55 <LordAro> ah yeah 21:36:03 <glx> fun fact about boost, 80% of build time in GHA for grfcodec (without cache) is boost IIRC 21:37:04 <LordAro> this does not surprise me 21:38:34 <glx> mainly because vcpkg includes almost every thing when only 2 or 3 packages are used 21:39:01 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] frosch123 commented on pull request #8931: Remove blob https://git.io/JYiy3 21:39:18 *** gelignite has quit IRC 21:40:28 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] frosch123 commented on pull request #8931: Remove blob https://git.io/JYiyc 21:41:41 <LordAro> i was afraid about that 21:42:01 <LordAro> most of the pointer usage is unnecessary 21:42:14 <frosch123> just replace vector -> deque, and it should be fine 21:44:07 <frosch123> SmallArray has the properties of a deque, as i read it 21:46:43 <frosch123> no idea whether the order in those hashtables matters, otherwise std::unordered_map may also be an option 21:46:55 <frosch123> but the order in std::unordered_map will be compiler specific :) 21:47:03 <spnda> or unordered_set if its a list 21:47:56 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] michicc commented on pull request #8931: Remove blob https://git.io/JYiSZ 21:57:32 *** Wolf01 has quit IRC 21:58:37 <LordAro> frosch123: the whole CSegmentCostCacheT class is just (afaict) an unordered_map acting as a cache 21:59:15 <frosch123> probably, but to not derail the PR into infinity, maybe do that later? 21:59:25 <LordAro> likely, yeah 21:59:29 <frosch123> for now std::deque seeems to be an exact match for smallarray 21:59:41 <LordAro> nah, probably best to take the commit out entirely 21:59:46 <LordAro> as per michi_cc comment 22:00:12 <LordAro> it's nothing to do with the original issue anyway 22:00:14 <frosch123> SmallArray: Implemented as fixed size array of fixed size arrays 22:00:26 <frosch123> std::deque: typical implementations use a sequence of individually allocated fixed-size arrays 22:00:40 <frosch123> sounds pretty equivalent :) 22:00:48 <LordAro> "probably" 22:03:24 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro updated pull request #8931: Remove blob https://git.io/JYiiw 22:03:39 <milek7_> binaryheap sounds like it could be replaced with multiset too 22:04:20 *** milek7_ is now known as milek7 22:04:27 *** milek7 has joined #openttd 22:06:51 <frosch123> @LordAro pushed 0 commits. <- awesome notification :) 22:07:06 <LordAro> lol 22:07:26 *** peter1138 has left #openttd 22:11:36 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh updated pull request #7786: Add: Help and manuals window https://git.io/JeBQt 22:13:16 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh commented on pull request #7786: Add: Help and manuals window https://git.io/JYiQA 22:16:35 <snail_UES_> andythenorth: are you still using the METL label anywhere? 22:19:00 <andythenorth> snail_UES_ seems not https://grf.farm/firs/4.0.0-RC1/html/code_reference.html 22:19:30 <snail_UES_> right, that’s why I was asking you. I found it in my code though. Can you recall if it came from an old version of FIRS? 22:20:14 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] frosch123 commented on pull request #8931: Remove blob https://git.io/JYi7S 22:20:38 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] gassmark opened issue #8933: Crash on Startup https://git.io/JYi7Q 22:21:02 <andythenorth> snail_UES_ it was in FIRS < v4 22:21:23 <snail_UES_> alright. So I guess I’ll have to keep it for compatibility’s sake 22:21:50 <LordAro> that's fun 22:22:26 <andythenorth> so...shall we officially conclude, there's no way to differentiate between vehicles based on their cargo payment rate? 22:22:40 * andythenorth would be happy to bury this issue and plant flowers 22:23:17 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro commented on issue #8933: Crash on Startup https://git.io/JYi7Q 22:23:43 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] frosch123 approved pull request #8931: Remove blob https://git.io/JYi5q 22:24:35 <snail_UES_> andythenorth: sadly I have to agree with you. The only way to differentiate is cargo aging, but that works in a weird way because of its implementation 22:24:45 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro commented on pull request #8931: Remove blob https://git.io/JYi53 22:24:48 <andythenorth> it will never work in a good way due to map sizes 22:24:51 <andythenorth> and players 22:25:36 <frosch123> "xaudio2" <- funny, that sounds like a osx thing 22:25:45 <andythenorth> JGR thinks a simple multiplier to cargo payment rate isn't possible, due to transfer credits iirc 22:26:00 <andythenorth> and the custom profit callback on the cargos is absolutely useless afaict 22:26:13 <andythenorth> those 2 are in my top 3 useless features :) 22:27:23 <snail_UES_> there should be a profit multiplier for each vehicle 22:27:39 <nielsm> yeah you'd probably have to somehow alter payments so you are paid out after each leg of a multi-step transfer to do it properly 22:27:49 <snail_UES_> it could be like a vehicle “property” you can alter through CB36 22:28:17 <nielsm> and then you'd run into the issue of what happens when cargo en-route is deleted from a crowded station, and what happens when you transport it "backwards" 22:28:32 <nielsm> should you then charge/"fine" the player? 22:28:48 <snail_UES_> couldn’t it be just as simple as a multiplier? 22:29:05 <snail_UES_> let the game compute the profit the way it currently does it 22:29:36 <frosch123> you would have to track percentage of time traveled in vehicle of qualitiy x 22:29:38 <snail_UES_> then it gets multiplied by that factor according to the vehicle it was transported in… in that specific leg of a multi-step transfer 22:29:40 <frosch123> it's possible to add that 22:29:49 <frosch123> it's mostly the same as cargo aging 22:30:12 <frosch123> summing both "qualtity*time" and "total time" and then dividing them in the end, to get an average 22:30:14 <nielsm> yes, like "spent X days in a luxury car" tracked on cargo packet level 22:30:36 <frosch123> what "qualitiy" does "waiting at station" imply? 22:30:43 <frosch123> punish long transfer times? :p 22:31:02 <nielsm> right now cargo is in stasis while waiting at station, I'm quite sure 22:31:05 <nielsm> time doesn't pass for it 22:31:33 <snail_UES_> frosch123: why not. I’d get pissed off if I had to spend a huge amount of time in a station just to wait for the next train 22:31:57 <frosch123> snail_UES_: so, both a vehicle property and a station property :p 22:31:58 <nielsm> until the station is starting to run out of storage, or angry rating-mobs begin sabotaging it 22:32:24 <snail_UES_> well, we could start implementing it as a vehicle property 22:32:37 <frosch123> vehicle is certainly easier 22:32:50 <frosch123> station would want to distinguish storage per cargotype and amount waiting etc 22:32:54 <nielsm> I'll have to assume the reason cargo disappears from a station when the rating drops too low is because locals see the cargo just sitting there without ever going anywhere, so they decide to go in and steal it 22:32:59 <frosch123> vehicles already know all that stuff 22:34:49 <_dp_> oh, btw, I updated citymania website along with profit calc, you can edit individual trains now including cargo aging 22:34:51 <_dp_> https://citymania.org/tools/profit 22:36:07 <nielsm> someone forgot to update the "Supported platforms" in readme to indicate the OpenGL output support 22:39:03 <andythenorth> so we could have payment multiplier? 22:39:26 <frosch123> if it is better tested than aging :p 22:39:58 <andythenorth> don't trust me to test it, I missed that actual running costs were 3x more than purchase menu says 22:40:02 <andythenorth> oof 22:40:30 <andythenorth> very funny bug 22:40:39 <andythenorth> snail_UES_ will test it! 22:40:44 <andythenorth> snail_UES_ doesn't make that kind of mistake 22:41:19 <snail_UES_> I can test it, as long as it comes in an OTTD version I can run on this machine 22:41:38 <snail_UES_> right now I can compile the latest JGR patchpack with no issues, but I can’t compile vanilla OTTD 22:44:07 <andythenorth> ha ha ha I don't have a reddit account but maybe I should get one https://www.reddit.com/r/openttd/comments/mivj98/i_am_thinking_about_getting_it_but_i_was/ 22:44:11 <andythenorth> excellent trolling 22:44:54 <andythenorth> maybe that's TB's sock puppet? :) 22:48:07 <frosch123> you mean Xaroth? 22:48:15 <andythenorth> maybe there's a fleet of them 22:48:18 <Xaroth> Wait what 22:48:35 <Xaroth> I have feelings you know! 22:48:48 <Xaroth> and I very much oppose the mental image of being used as a sock puppet by TB... 22:49:00 <FLHerne> snail_UES_: There are nightly downloads (again?) now 22:49:02 <andythenorth> oof :) 22:49:16 <andythenorth> FLHerne for PRs though? 22:49:33 <frosch123> there are manual builds for PRs 22:49:33 <FLHerne> andythenorth: If you add the `preview` tag, yes 22:50:27 <frosch123> Xaroth: hug? 22:50:49 <Xaroth> I was more thinking of needing a shower, that mental image made me feel dirty. 22:50:53 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh updated pull request #7786: Add: Help and manuals window https://git.io/JeBQt 22:51:12 <glx> <snail_UES_> right now I can compile the latest JGR patchpack with no issues, but I can’t compile vanilla OTTD <-- weird, do you have details on why it fails ? 22:51:28 <FLHerne> andythenorth, snail_UES_ for that matter, you can try it in the browser... e.g. https://preview.openttd.org/pr8574/ 22:51:59 <andythenorth> this is the newgrf extension thing :) 22:52:06 <snail_UES_> it fails, because the OTTD developers graciously decided to require at least C++17 22:52:09 <andythenorth> livestream wasn't long enough for frosch to cover it :) 22:52:17 <andythenorth> newgrf extension requires 22:52:20 <andythenorth> - PR 22:52:26 <snail_UES_> effectively locking my computer out (I’ve got MacOS 10.12) 22:52:27 <andythenorth> - nml patch or similar 22:52:31 <andythenorth> - test grf 22:52:40 <glx> oh 22:52:44 <snail_UES_> JGR did something that allowed me to compile it on this computer. I’m not sure about the details 22:52:57 <andythenorth> https://gist.github.com/andythenorth/687486e7b85eee8d4554dc122b7008e9#gistcomment-3690202 22:53:01 <andythenorth> 'always two there are' 22:54:22 <frosch123> haha, it was weird when somone brought up the driving-backwards thing 22:54:31 <frosch123> when i planned to talk about that in the "failz" section :p 22:54:58 <andythenorth> I was hoping you had a runaway train patch 22:55:13 <andythenorth> "this train couldn't make the hill and is now rolling backwards" 22:55:20 <andythenorth> and it wouldn't be able to make PBS reservations 22:55:40 <andythenorth> do we need switchable junctions? 22:55:47 <andythenorth> PBS reservation drawing tool? 22:55:50 <frosch123> i have a story for a nice troll patch, but i still need to implement it, and check whether it turns out as cool as in my head :p 22:55:59 <frosch123> will happend some later stream 22:56:02 <glx> nielsm: funny, this time it's not MSVC complaining about signed/unsigned comparison 22:56:53 *** Wormnest has quit IRC 22:58:28 *** WormnestAndroid has quit IRC 22:58:32 <andythenorth> would payment rate multiplier be a static prop? or cb? 22:58:48 *** WormnestAndroid has joined #openttd 23:01:00 <frosch123> same as aging 23:02:25 <frosch123> property + cb36 + called only rarely 23:03:04 <frosch123> so, not date-dependent multiplier :) 23:03:16 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh updated pull request #7786: Add: Help and manuals window https://git.io/JeBQt 23:03:24 <frosch123> probably also not load-amount specific 23:05:49 <andythenorth> vehicle age? o_O 23:05:57 * andythenorth won't do that, but I can see why people might 23:08:41 <frosch123> quality should be constant during travel :) 23:08:46 <snail_UES_> if this new property is in cb36, we can make it dependent on anything we want :) 23:09:07 <frosch123> no, because ottd will cache the result 23:09:15 <frosch123> it won't be called every tick for every vehicle :) 23:09:26 <snail_UES_> frosch123: right, but I was thinking about refitting cycle 23:09:42 <snail_UES_> plus vehicle ID and vehicle age, probably 23:09:43 <frosch123> cargo-aging only changes inside depot and stuff, it's on the "rarest update" level 23:09:54 <snail_UES_> that would be fine with me 23:10:01 <frosch123> "vehicle age" is a problem. the rest is fine 23:10:17 <snail_UES_> hmm, how about “year of built"? 23:10:22 <snail_UES_> that should work, right? 23:10:23 <frosch123> that's fine again 23:10:53 <frosch123> everything that does not change during travel, just due to time progressing 23:10:58 <snail_UES_> so year of built, vehicle ID, refitting cycle, presence of other vehicle IDs in the consist 23:11:16 <snail_UES_> ^^ this would be more than enough for me 23:15:50 <andythenorth> are we missing any pitfalls? 23:16:10 <andythenorth> as I see it, this is an alternative dimension to capacity etc 23:16:39 <andythenorth> does a simple multiplier work for different map sizes etc? 23:17:07 <andythenorth> 'probably fine' 23:18:04 <andythenorth> cargo payment has that weird shape chart https://citymania.org/tools/profit 23:18:30 <andythenorth> (on profit per 1000 cargo units chart) 23:18:42 <andythenorth> income peaks, declines, rises again 23:19:46 <andythenorth> this would just move the shape up and down the axis? 23:20:16 <_dp_> because at some point cargo payment becomes constant 23:20:32 <_dp_> multiplier will just scale in on y as I understand it 23:20:40 <_dp_> so basically do nothing :p 23:20:58 <snail_UES_> more than move the shape, it’d slightly change the slope (being a multiplier) 23:21:58 <snail_UES_> _dp_ : why do nothing? if a first class coach has a multiplier of 1.1 , vs a 2nd class coach with the default multiplier of 1, the former will always give you more profit than the latter 23:22:23 <andythenorth> depends what other dimensions you change, e.g. capacity 23:22:26 <snail_UES_> while having a lower capacity 23:23:04 <_dp_> if some is always better why bother using the other? 23:23:26 <snail_UES_> the cargo payment curve is always declining with time, right? and it’s pretty steep for passengers 23:24:08 <_dp_> it all becomes constant at some point 23:24:23 <snail_UES_> so what we ultimately need is a better cargo aging :p something that flattens the payment curve, rising it up for long travel times 23:25:16 <snail_UES_> _dp_ : not really… for passengers, it’s constantly declining 23:25:45 <andythenorth> snail_UES_ it's way too hard to define 'long' 23:26:12 <snail_UES_> but we could still flatten that curve… reducing the slope while maintaining the intercept constant 23:26:44 <andythenorth> that's what the current property does? 23:26:50 <andythenorth> or not? 23:26:59 <snail_UES_> cargo aging? 23:27:13 <snail_UES_> I don’t know how it’s implemented. I just did some tests, and it works like a hyperbula. It’s not linear. 23:27:28 <snail_UES_> this is why it doesn’t work very well in a game 23:28:24 <andythenorth> it just modifies how often cargo is aged iirc 23:28:29 * andythenorth didn't google it in spec 23:28:51 <snail_UES_> maybe the multiplier we’re discussing about could be itself multiplied by the number of days in transit, normalized in some way. So it would have a stronger effect for longer journeys 23:29:09 <andythenorth> you can't really define 'longer' in OpenTTD 23:29:19 <andythenorth> it's beyond the scope of a vehicle set author :) 23:29:21 <frosch123> andythenorth: snail_UES_: can you draw what the curve shall look like? 23:29:30 <andythenorth> I can't 23:29:37 <snail_UES_> let me give it a try 23:29:53 <frosch123> cargo aging scaled the curve in horizontal direction 23:30:02 <frosch123> a payment multiplier would scale it in vertical direction 23:30:10 <andythenorth> yes 23:30:11 <frosch123> but the shape of the curve stays the same in both cases 23:30:12 *** sla_ro|master2 has quit IRC 23:30:24 <andythenorth> if some vehicles pay more than others, it needs to be not dimensioned by travel time 23:30:39 <andythenorth> otherwise it just replicated current property, but differently 23:30:44 <andythenorth> replicates * 23:31:00 <andythenorth> travel time is a meaningless thing for vehicle set authors to attend to 23:31:23 <andythenorth> it's influenced too much by cargo grf, player style, daylength, map size, vehicle speeds etc 23:32:31 <snail_UES_> I made a png, how can I share it? 23:32:39 <andythenorth> discord :P 23:33:22 <andythenorth> github gist? 23:34:07 <snail_UES_> frosch123: yes, it would scale it in vertical direction. Days in transit could enter into the calculation, to scale it more heavily upwards on the “right” of the curve 23:35:52 <_dp_> snail_UES_, https://i.imgur.com/kB0kTsj.png 23:36:10 <snail_UES_> _dp_ : the opposite 23:36:18 <snail_UES_> I’d show it to you if I had a place where to share my png... 23:37:10 <snail_UES_> wait, when I look at the cargo payment rate on ottd, it stops at 200 days for me 23:37:27 <_dp_> yeah, I patched it 23:37:35 *** Wormnest has joined #openttd 23:37:36 <_dp_> to show more 23:37:48 <andythenorth> for restaurant cars I considered that after more days, the payment rate goes _up_ :P 23:37:51 <andythenorth> due to sale of beer 23:37:52 <andythenorth> and pies 23:37:59 <frosch123> 400 days for 20 tiles is a lot :p 23:38:05 <andythenorth> see also Casino Cruise Ships 23:38:15 <snail_UES_> https://imgur.com/a/iZABza8 23:38:38 <_dp_> frosch123, well, distance is jut a multiplier so it only changes y scale 23:38:44 <snail_UES_> the grey line is the original cargo payment rate for passengers 23:38:49 <frosch123> andythenorth: by that logic you make a lot of money by building a circle that drives pax around the map, and unloads them at the start station again :p 23:38:52 <snail_UES_> I added the orange one 23:38:55 <andythenorth> frosch123 yes 23:39:07 <andythenorth> I tried doing it with negative running costs 23:39:13 <andythenorth> but run cost is unsigned sadly 23:39:27 <andythenorth> I showed the flash game I made for Railroad Tycoon 3 release? 23:39:36 <andythenorth> you could win by building a loop 23:39:55 <andythenorth> we can't sign run costs because someone somewhere might have used > 128 as the value 23:40:11 <andythenorth> or whatever the equivalent is for CB 23:40:16 <andythenorth> 32k maybe? 23:40:41 <snail_UES_> the final result could be : multiplier * (number of days in travel/X) 23:40:50 <snail_UES_> where X is the number at which the payment rate becomes flat 23:41:11 <andythenorth> snail_UES_ you propose 2 properties or one? :) 23:41:26 <frosch123> what was the exact problem with cargo aging? 23:41:33 <snail_UES_> one. This is a suggection on how the multiplier could work 23:41:33 *** FLHerne has quit IRC 23:41:37 <frosch123> is it's range too small? 23:41:44 <snail_UES_> frosch123: I don’t know how it was implemented, code-wise 23:41:47 <andythenorth> cargo aging only shows an effect when reduced 23:41:52 <andythenorth> in games I play 23:41:59 <andythenorth> other authors found similar 23:42:09 <snail_UES_> but when I tested it, I saw it was only effective on really long journeys, and the numbers to assign to aging were really weird 23:42:18 <andythenorth> someone will turn up now and then with a 4k map and 35mph boats and prove it's a wonderful feature 23:42:21 <snail_UES_> like, above a certain number it wouldn’t matter anymore 23:42:34 <andythenorth> well DP's charts show the issue 23:42:53 <andythenorth> cargo aging will only affect a portion of the grf 23:43:06 <andythenorth> graph * 23:43:07 <andythenorth> oof 23:43:47 <andythenorth> so if it's a straight choice of, e.g. faster loading, lower paying, or slower loading, higher paying...cargo aging is no use 23:44:02 <andythenorth> and to make e.g. luxury pax cars requires nerfing the 'normal' ones 23:44:12 <andythenorth> and commuter transport e.g. metro has to be super nerfed 23:46:03 <_dp_> imo you just can't have same payments balanced for every map size 23:46:13 <_dp_> can newgrf change payments on map size though? 23:46:36 <snail_UES_> ok, I got back some results of a test I ran back in 2011 23:46:49 <frosch123> yes, newgrf can read mapsize 23:47:02 <_dp_> well, that may be a solution then 23:47:23 <frosch123> but if you make small distances pay nothing, it will be a rough early game :p 23:47:28 <snail_UES_> being a hyperbola, the cargo aging parameter heavily decreases revenue until a value of about 100 23:47:40 <_dp_> frosch123, increase the loan :p 23:47:44 <frosch123> and one person got very upset when stuff became 50% more expensive :p 23:47:48 <snail_UES_> it get somewhat linear between 100 and 150 23:48:04 <snail_UES_> it flattens between 150 and 300 23:48:19 <snail_UES_> and beyond 300, it’s got no effect at all (asymptotically flat) 23:48:21 <andythenorth> snail_UES_ you know newgrf cargo moves the numbers around? 23:48:33 <andythenorth> probably gets similar numbers, but eh 23:49:24 <snail_UES_> frosch123: right, that’s why we need cargo aging to increase revenue for longer journeys… 23:49:41 <snail_UES_> the way it’s implemented, as Andy said, it’s only good to decrease revenues for shorter journeys 23:50:18 <frosch123> this sounds like a lot of hearsay to me :p i probably need to play with dp's graphs 23:50:34 <snail_UES_> my suggestion would be to make it less of a hyperbola and more of a linear function. Maybe something like log(distance) or sqrt(distance) 23:51:27 <frosch123> changing that is no per-vehicle thing 23:51:48 <_dp_> I think I tried sqrt(distance) at some point, that's junk 23:52:07 <_dp_> and log even more so ofc 23:53:05 <snail_UES_> frosch123: but it might fix “cargo aging”, which is a per-vehicle thing... 23:53:18 <snail_UES_> if cargo aging worked as intended, we wouldn’t need any new property 23:53:31 <andythenorth> afaict cargo aging works exactly as intended 23:53:50 <andythenorth> although I wouldn't be shocked if it turned out to have an implementation error :) 23:54:09 <andythenorth> but relying on days in transit to balance other factors...makes no sense 23:54:26 <andythenorth> it imposes a very specific play style with respect to distance 23:54:44 <andythenorth> authors can and should make some choices about playstyle, but distance is so variable in OpenTTD 23:54:58 <snail_UES_> andythenorth: alright. If we don’t want to change cargo aging, then what I’d suggest would be a multiplier to the payment rate, which in its turn gets multiplied by the traveled distance (if you don’t like days in transit) 23:55:45 <andythenorth> not sure how that helps :) 23:55:51 <snail_UES_> the final payment rate could be : original payment rate * (1 + multiplier * log(traveled distance) ) 23:55:54 <andythenorth> that's just another thing to fight against players? 23:56:10 <snail_UES_> andythenorth: why fight against players? 23:56:20 <andythenorth> players will choose 64x64 and 16k x 16k maps, and expect the train set to work 23:56:35 <andythenorth> imposing your choices about distance seems...like a waste of time? 23:56:37 <andythenorth> dunno :) 23:56:48 <andythenorth> what do I miss? 23:56:56 <snail_UES_> then how about log(traveled distance / map size) ? 23:57:00 <andythenorth> why not just multiply the payment rate? 23:57:11 <andythenorth> and use the cargo aging prop also if you want? 23:57:33 <snail_UES_> andythenorth: because if we just multiply the payment rate, 1st class coaches will “always” be better or worse than 2nd class coaches 23:57:41 <andythenorth> yes 23:57:48 <andythenorth> 1st class always costs more than 2nd 23:57:53 <snail_UES_> if we put traveled distance in the formula, 1st class coaches will be better for long journeys, and 2nd class better for short ones 23:58:10 <andythenorth> but then you have to choose the distance 23:58:25 <andythenorth> I dunno, you can already do that with cargo aging 23:58:31 <andythenorth> conversation confuse me greatly 23:58:32 <frosch123> ok, so the goal is to have vehicles specialise in long distance and short distance 23:58:39 <andythenorth> not my goal :) 23:58:44 *** nielsm has quit IRC 23:58:44 <andythenorth> we already have that property 23:58:57 <snail_UES_> but it doesn’t work very well... 23:58:57 <frosch123> loading speed? 23:59:02 <andythenorth> my goal is to balance e.g. loading speed vs payment 23:59:07 <andythenorth> or capacity vs. payment 23:59:11 <andythenorth> or red trains pay more 23:59:15 <andythenorth> blue trains pay less 23:59:47 <andythenorth> snail_UES_ it doesn't work very well because openttd payment rates are a bit mad 23:59:51 <snail_UES_> andythenorth: yes, but a luxury train won’t pay more if you’re just moving between two underground stops 23:59:56 <andythenorth> why not?