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01:40:24 *** Gustavo6046 has joined #openttd 01:58:59 *** Tirili has quit IRC 02:00:18 *** Tirili has joined #openttd 02:08:47 *** Tirili has quit IRC 02:40:16 *** felix has quit IRC 02:41:00 *** felix has joined #openttd 02:45:23 *** debdog has joined #openttd 02:48:44 *** D-HUND has quit IRC 03:01:36 *** Wormnest has quit IRC 03:08:32 *** glx has quit IRC 03:41:01 *** Flygon has joined #openttd 04:13:07 *** Compu has joined #openttd 06:52:21 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd 06:55:25 *** nielsm has joined #openttd 07:06:56 *** andythenorth has quit IRC 07:11:40 *** jottyfan has joined #openttd 07:12:00 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd 07:14:57 *** jottyfan has quit IRC 07:16:27 *** esselfe has quit IRC 07:17:48 <andythenorth> yo 07:24:06 *** Progman has joined #openttd 07:26:03 *** tokai|noir has joined #openttd 07:26:03 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai|noir 07:29:36 *** esselfe has joined #openttd 07:32:50 *** tokai has quit IRC 08:59:03 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain started discussion #9504: [Suggestion] Minimized version of the Online Players window https://git.io/JEI40 09:08:49 *** Wolf01 has joined #openttd 09:22:29 *** tokai has joined #openttd 09:22:29 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai 09:23:58 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PikkaBird commented on discussion #9504: [Suggestion] Minimized version of the Online Players window https://git.io/JEI40 09:26:22 <andythenorth> oof solitaire 09:26:23 <andythenorth> send help 09:27:24 <TrueBrain> no 09:27:31 <TrueBrain> you are a grown man 09:27:34 <TrueBrain> I think? 09:29:30 *** tokai|noir has quit IRC 09:34:49 * andythenorth checks 09:34:57 <andythenorth> you seem to be correct :P 09:42:10 *** Donk has joined #openttd 09:44:30 <andythenorth> the version I'm playing is about 99.99996% winnable 09:44:51 <andythenorth> limited skill required :P 10:19:10 *** frosch123 has joined #openttd 10:34:38 *** Samu has joined #openttd 10:36:02 *** HerzogDeXtEr has joined #openttd 10:37:49 *** iSoSyS has joined #openttd 10:47:06 <nielsm> solitaire you say? https://0x0.st/-tsr.png 10:50:04 <TrueBrain> ... I don't even ... :p 10:56:44 <frosch123> lol, when was my last PR? git needed to push 9 MiB to my remote branch 10:56:50 <frosch123> did someone add pictures? 10:59:46 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] frosch123 opened pull request #9505: Doc: guidelines on english.txt or translation changes in PRs. https://git.io/JEIAB 10:59:53 <Rubidium> TB did 11:01:50 <Rubidium> well, he added some icons which might account not even 100 KiB of that 11:04:14 * andythenorth is playing spider 11:05:08 <frosch123> how did you attach yourself to the ceiling? 11:05:11 <frosch123> or still trying? 11:14:52 <andythenorth> a different kind of spider :P 11:15:15 <andythenorth> more like https://www.spider-solitaire-game.com/img/og/spider-solitaire-game-free-and-online.jpg 11:15:25 <andythenorth> was it FIRS I was doing? 11:25:00 *** roadt_ has quit IRC 11:27:06 <Eddi|zuHause> you wanted to solve the "FIRS in desert needs to treat shops like water towers" 11:30:42 <TrueBrain> frosch123: so I did it correct with my typo in STR PR \o/ :D 11:30:48 <TrueBrain> only by accident, I have to admit 11:31:51 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain approved pull request #9505: Doc: guidelines on english.txt or translation changes in PRs. https://git.io/JELfz 11:33:47 <frosch123> no typos? 11:36:47 *** roadt_ has joined #openttd 11:38:27 <TrueBrain> none I spotted 11:38:31 <TrueBrain> doesn't mean a lot, I admit 11:39:26 <frosch123> i assumed there would be a "wtf does this mean?" :p 11:39:45 <TrueBrain> sorry :( 11:42:26 <TrueBrain> I was surprised we offer outside contributions to typos in translations, but that was all :P 11:48:22 <frosch123> not sure whether we "offer" that. but it's a better option than telling people to sign up as translator, who then won't translate anything. here's a precedent: https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/9048 11:48:43 <frosch123> it's awesome to highlight a team like that 11:50:17 <TrueBrain> nice 11:54:56 *** gelignite has joined #openttd 11:55:02 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause that's just a GS :) 11:55:29 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: i disagree 11:55:39 <andythenorth> no progress without dissent eh 11:55:50 <andythenorth> well I was told it is a GS 11:55:58 <andythenorth> but as nobody is in charge here, what are the alternatives? 11:56:28 <TrueBrain> @op andythenorth 11:56:29 *** DorpsGek sets mode: +o andythenorth 11:56:35 <TrueBrain> there, fixed the issue 11:56:42 <andythenorth> really no 11:56:49 *** andythenorth was kicked by andythenorth (Your behavior is not conducive to the desired environment.) 11:56:56 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd 11:56:58 <TrueBrain> wrong "here"? :D 11:57:00 <TrueBrain> awh :) 11:57:06 <Eddi|zuHause> well, there exists code that places water towers in desert towns. quite likely there's an industry behaviour flag for that. or there should be one. 11:58:25 <andythenorth> it doesn't guarantee one per town though 11:58:36 <andythenorth> unless I missed something 11:58:42 <Eddi|zuHause> that's a different issue 11:58:58 *** esselfe has quit IRC 12:00:49 <andythenorth> maybe I'll make FIRS generate Squirrel today 12:01:01 <andythenorth> I have to copy the industry production behaviour into GS 12:01:15 <andythenorth> it might drift out of sync in large maps 12:01:25 <andythenorth> due to GS execution model 12:02:09 <andythenorth> ha maybe I can read the map sie 12:02:12 <andythenorth> size * 12:02:15 <andythenorth> yes I can 12:02:30 <andythenorth> maybe I just refuse to allow FIRS on maps > x 12:03:19 <andythenorth> do we know anything about GS performance (number of ops performed per loop)? Is it fairly consistent, or is it dependent on hardware? 12:03:48 <nielsm> it's supposed to be limited by number of squirrel VM operations 12:03:54 <nielsm> so hardware independent 12:04:20 <andythenorth> do we have any memory concerns? 12:04:36 <andythenorth> I'm going to have to cache some data about every industry on the map 12:04:42 <andythenorth> that's probably trivial 12:05:05 <andythenorth> oh 12:05:17 <andythenorth> some people want production history industry 12:05:22 <andythenorth> I can give every industry a story-book page 12:05:51 <andythenorth> that will also solve the 'not enough room in industry window' 12:06:03 <andythenorth> how do I link to the story book page from the industry though? 12:06:11 <nielsm> not quite possible 12:06:36 <andythenorth> special string code? 12:06:49 <nielsm> you can make a main page with a button that lets the player click a map tile, and then look up an industry from that map tile, and determine which storybook page to switch to from that industry, and then switch the storybook page 12:06:50 <andythenorth> give it the UID of the industry, and a special prefix 12:07:01 <andythenorth> hmm 12:07:12 *** esselfe has joined #openttd 12:07:46 <nielsm> in fact you can also just update the page on demand that way 12:07:52 <andythenorth> click a tile might be quite cool 12:07:57 * andythenorth will test in a bit 12:08:02 <andythenorth> 'industry inspector' 12:08:15 <nielsm> instead of switching to a page for the industry, just make the button generate the page for that industry 12:08:28 <nielsm> so you don't need to have 500 pages in the book 12:18:03 <andythenorth> neat 12:18:38 <andythenorth> oof GS has SetText for industry 12:18:41 <andythenorth> but not GetText 12:18:42 <andythenorth> shame 12:18:56 <andythenorth> I could have used the industry window text as control channel from grf to GS 12:19:04 * andythenorth wonders how hard that is to add 12:19:19 <andythenorth> vehicles have GetName 12:20:55 <TrueBrain> every possible crack in the wall he finds he jumps on :D 12:21:36 <andythenorth> I did find a side channel with a few bits, but I've forgotten what it was 12:22:44 <TrueBrain> reminds me of the way people instructed stuff via Signs 12:22:47 <TrueBrain> back in the old days :D 12:24:00 <andythenorth> oh it was cargo acceptance 12:24:19 <andythenorth> newgrf industry can allow / deny acceptance per cargo 12:24:26 <andythenorth> GS can read it 12:24:29 <andythenorth> so that's 1 bit 12:24:50 <andythenorth> but if I introduce some special cargos, I can use them for signalling 12:25:19 <TrueBrain> do the same for Town houses? 12:25:29 <andythenorth> I think they can also do that yes 12:26:11 <andythenorth> text-parsing the industry window text would be a lot...richer 12:27:25 <frosch123> so firs will now add vehicles, just to pass info to GS? 12:27:41 <andythenorth> I did just consider making a transportable cargo for GS signalling 12:27:51 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] frosch123 merged pull request #9505: Doc: guidelines on english.txt or translation changes in PRs. https://git.io/JEIAB 12:27:53 <andythenorth> and actually delivering 'happiness' 12:28:19 <TrueBrain> can you make a hidden cargo? 12:28:22 <frosch123> "100t of happyness waiting to be processed"? 12:28:28 <andythenorth> can't hide a cargo 12:28:34 <TrueBrain> awh 12:28:44 <TrueBrain> as that would actually be a neat idea, to cargo "happiness" around :D 12:28:46 <andythenorth> can set it to 0 payment 12:28:49 <TrueBrain> but a player shouldn't see it :P 12:29:04 <frosch123> TrueBrain: vehicle can only carry one cargo 12:29:11 <frosch123> refit to happyness 12:29:21 <TrueBrain> it could be in the engine or something :) 12:29:50 <TrueBrain> or, what is it called .. a second part of an engine that is invisible 12:29:55 <TrueBrain> pretty sure we can work around that issue :D 12:30:11 <frosch123> yes, articulated parts can carry different things, but autoreplace rejects those vehicles 12:30:18 <TrueBrain> lame 12:30:30 <andythenorth> someone said that was fixed or something 12:30:39 <andythenorth> I tested it, didn't work for me 12:30:55 <andythenorth> anyway, I'd use trams for happiness :P 12:40:47 <andythenorth> 'happy tram' 12:44:53 <andythenorth> happiness tram? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sp%C3%A5raKoff 13:04:40 *** jottyfan has joined #openttd 13:06:37 *** jottyfan has quit IRC 13:06:56 *** jottyfan has joined #openttd 13:14:51 *** glx has joined #openttd 13:14:51 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v glx 13:21:18 <glx> andythenorth: can't a never available engine be used (always valid for GS, but never for companies) be used as a communication medium ? 13:21:34 <andythenorth> maybe 13:21:51 <andythenorth> there's no grf spec for industry to control that though 13:23:50 <peter1138> Hello. 13:24:25 <peter1138> obs 13:24:34 <peter1138> Apparenly my windows key failed. 13:24:35 *** Kitrana1 has quit IRC 13:26:04 <andythenorth> GS can read amounts of cargo produced, so that's more signalling 13:26:10 <andythenorth> I could bitmask 13:26:17 <andythenorth> 1 cargo could carry quite a lot of bits 13:26:27 <andythenorth> or alternatively amounts 13:26:38 <andythenorth> can grf force things onto the stockpile? 13:26:51 * andythenorth looks if production callback can have negative amounts 13:27:17 <andythenorth> yes signed bytes 13:27:25 <glx> negative and 15bit never play nicely :) 13:27:40 <andythenorth> uuf 13:27:42 <andythenorth> yes 13:27:54 <andythenorth> can cargo names be empty strings 13:28:00 * andythenorth considers "" as name 13:28:05 *** virtualrandomnumber has joined #openttd 13:28:10 <andythenorth> it won't then appear in vehicle refit lists etc 13:28:16 *** virtualrandomnumber has quit IRC 13:28:48 *** Kitrana has joined #openttd 13:31:08 *** Kitrana1 has joined #openttd 13:37:50 *** Kitrana has quit IRC 13:40:08 <andythenorth> what would be the worst side channel? :P 13:49:47 <andythenorth> what about letting GS read the current animation frame of an industry tile? 13:51:31 <frosch123> allow GS to make screenshots and parse the pixels 13:52:38 <andythenorth> that's just silly 13:52:50 <andythenorth> it could analyse sound effects though 13:52:52 <Samu> what is this invite code for 13:52:53 <frosch123> aircraft may distrupt the communication 13:52:55 <Samu> Invite code: +myCcnGH 13:52:56 <andythenorth> waveform encoding? 13:54:09 <glx> simple way to connect to a server Samu 13:54:11 <andythenorth> is there industry cb for sound effect? 13:54:28 <Samu> where do i use this code 13:54:31 <frosch123> all animations can trigger sound effects 13:54:42 <glx> in "add server", like ip:port 13:55:16 <glx> useful for private games 13:55:22 <Samu> ah, it's not too clear where it's used 13:55:27 <Samu> I see 13:55:38 <glx> because public ones are listed :) 13:58:15 <andythenorth> can I use sub-audible sound effects? 13:58:29 <andythenorth> this would be absolutely the most incredible side channel 13:58:49 <Samu> connecting to myself is slow 13:59:07 <frosch123> may hurt kids and dogs 14:01:44 <andythenorth> ok, so the animation frame is the more plausible route 14:01:59 <Samu> i can only have 1 server running at the same time? 14:02:19 <andythenorth> looks quite easy to add GS method calling GetAnimationFrame() 14:02:36 <glx> no you can have more than one, but each must be on a different port 14:02:54 <Samu> ah 14:03:05 <Samu> so ports still matter 14:03:37 <glx> of course, but you don't have to forward them now 14:05:25 <frosch123> andythenorth: industries have persistent storage btw 14:06:45 <andythenorth> yes :) 14:06:46 <andythenorth> I found it 14:07:10 <andythenorth> but that was thought to be unsuitable for GS to read 14:07:32 <frosch123> it is, but what makes you think animation frames were better? 14:07:51 <glx> animation frames are worse 14:08:54 *** tokai|noir has joined #openttd 14:08:54 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai|noir 14:10:12 <andythenorth> I didn't think it would be better 14:10:14 <andythenorth> just funnier 14:11:37 <andythenorth> it would have interesting unintended consequences 14:15:55 *** tokai has quit IRC 14:36:14 <TrueBrain> https://steamcommunity.com/app/1536610/eventcomments/4737210531938699502#c3042731710364207188 <- couldn't resist :) 14:46:53 <debdog> is the maintainer of the .deb-packages here? have a suggestion to conform these packages with FHS. 14:47:39 <debdog> or do I need to contact him via email (package says info@o.....) 14:48:55 <debdog> suggestion would be installation into /usr/local instead of /usr https://refspecs.linuxfoundation.org/FHS_3.0/fhs/ch04s09.html 14:49:35 <glx> IIRC it follows debian rules 14:49:57 <LordAro> a *deb* installing into /usr/local seems wrong 14:50:04 <frosch123> i assume you do not mean the bundles shipped with debian, but those from the website download? 14:51:31 <debdog> frosch123: yes, the download page. NOT the ones shipped by debian/ubuntu. these should go into /usr 14:52:29 <debdog> LordAro: from the link I've posted: "It needs to be safe from being overwritten when the system software is updated." 14:53:27 <nielsm> directly in /usr is owned by the OS distribution, while /usr/local is owned by the user, is the principle as far as I know 14:53:50 <debdog> that sums it up, yes 14:54:26 <LordAro> maybe? 14:54:54 <LordAro> except it's got the same name as the OS-provided package anyway, so it's not like you can manage to install both at once 14:55:45 <glx> https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/blob/93fd42b0c3a26eb02d3c3dd4ae273b5e546baf14/.github/workflows/release.yml#L442 <-- easy to fix 14:56:37 <Heiki> as LordAro said, the deb packages from openttd.org conflict with the ones from Debian (or Ubuntu or whatever), so I don’t see a problem with /usr 14:56:56 <debdog> LordAro: it's not just about the name, version is important as well 14:57:07 <LordAro> no it isn't? 14:57:15 <LordAro> dpkg will not let you install 2 packages with the same name 14:57:20 <LordAro> version is irrelevant 14:58:59 <LordAro> (i don't particularly disagree that our own packages should install to /usr/local, but your justification is wrong) 15:00:00 <debdog> well, I don't really care and do want to discuss this any further. fact is /usr should be reserved for packages managed by the package manager. /usr/local or even /opt is for packages/software installed manually by the user. 15:00:09 <debdog> *do NOT 15:00:18 <LordAro> dpkg is the package manager 15:00:34 <glx> system packages vs user packages 15:00:56 <LordAro> deb files *are* system packages 15:01:12 <LordAro> where you got them from isn't particularly relevant 15:01:23 <debdog> well... 15:02:38 <frosch123> glx: maybe related. when building locally, the shared folder is set to "/usr/local/games", so openttd does not find OpenGFX from the distribution in /usr/games 15:02:41 <frosch123> super annoying :p 15:03:40 <debdog> I do not know whether openttd's and debian's package maintainr/s 15:03:42 <debdog> oops 15:04:50 <debdog> I do not know whether openttd's and debian's package maintainer/s are working tightly together or not. if yes, then there prolly will no problem arise in the future. if not, anything could happen and the package's locations should be seperated 15:06:13 <LordAro> we do work together, yes 15:06:13 <debdog> that's why my initial question was, wheter said package manager is around 15:06:20 <debdog> ok then 15:06:21 <glx> frosch123: possible, CMAKE_INSTALL_PREFIX defaults to /usr/local 15:06:34 <LordAro> but i still dispute "anything could happen" 15:07:09 <frosch123> glx: yes, it does 15:11:23 <glx> you can use GLOBAL_DIR to change it without changing default prefix I think 15:18:56 <TrueBrain> I know a solution .. we could just remove Ubuntu/Debian packages from www.openttd.org and leave that fully up to distros? :D :P 15:19:21 <glx> hehe 15:19:22 <TrueBrain> frosch123: I found that problem so annoying, I might have several symlinks in place :P 15:20:33 <glx> I have many symlinks (well ntfs junctions) on windows for the encoding pain of different programs and my username 15:21:04 <frosch123> haha, when will windows switch to utf8? 15:21:10 <frosch123> 2050? 15:21:16 <glx> won't fix the issue 15:21:36 <glx> each program can use each own encoding 15:22:16 <TrueBrain> debdog: a bit of history for you, but the current maintainer for Debian is an old OpenTTD developer :) 15:22:28 <TrueBrain> we used to keep the .deb somewhat in sync with what was in our repo and what was used on Debian 15:22:35 <TrueBrain> but .. with the CMake switch, that is no longer the case 15:23:27 <TrueBrain> so the "maintainer" of the .deb on www.openttd.org is CPack, basically :) 15:25:50 <debdog> ok, I think this answers my questions 15:29:46 <glx> http://glx.cloudns.org:8080/junctions.png <-- and I enable utf8 as default in windows 15:29:47 <TrueBrain> and in general Linux makes it really difficult for software to use paths outside their own directory .. XDG .. FHS .. they add to complexity in many cases. OpenGFX is indeed a fine example of this .. either we need to modify our code to work with several "global" folders, looking in both /usr and /usr/local (which sounds weird) 15:29:55 <TrueBrain> or we need to coordinate where OpenGFX is installed .. 15:30:13 <TrueBrain> so using /usr/local might be "strictly more correct" for the .deb on www.openttd.org 15:30:21 <TrueBrain> it also means "apt install openttd-opengfx" no longer works 15:30:26 <TrueBrain> resulting in bug-reports and the what not :) 15:30:57 <TrueBrain> there is no good solution here .. just one that takes the least amount of surprises :P 15:31:08 <LordAro> i'd be in favour of dropping the global folder entirely, tbh 15:31:25 <LordAro> it must be so rarely used, except for opengfx which can be installed easily via bootstrap/content 15:31:45 <TrueBrain> to me it all became bikeshedding :) 15:31:53 <TrueBrain> Linux got itself in this mess .. I leave it to others to deal with it :P 15:32:35 <frosch123> LordAro: opengfx is needed for servers, so dedicated servery work currently with installation from package manager 15:32:49 <LordAro> mm 15:33:24 <glx> ha yes no GUI-less bootstrap 15:33:38 <frosch123> "all from package manager" and "all custom" cases work fine, i think. the mixtures are the complicated ones, but also the unneeded ones 15:34:08 <TrueBrain> and this is why I favour Linux Generic, as it makes it much more clear to the user what is going on :) 15:34:21 <TrueBrain> offering the .deb gives a false sense of compatibility, basically 15:35:49 <TrueBrain> on Steam and GOG we just bundle OpenGFX and friends .. also a fine solution :D 15:37:01 <glx> yeah but steam (at least, not sure for GOG) doesn't download opengfx and friends when only openttd is updated 15:37:31 <TrueBrain> I think GOG always does download it .. but compared to other games, rather irrelevant :D 15:37:50 <glx> while bundling on openttd.org would just waste our bandwidth 15:38:23 <glx> and money ;) 15:38:55 <TrueBrain> :) 15:40:14 <glx> I guess it should be possible to add a noGUI version of bootstrap 15:40:48 <TrueBrain> or or or or .. can we finally fix that OpenGFX is not required for dedicated servers? :D 15:42:33 <frosch123> glx: https://unicodebook.readthedocs.io/_images/Letter_to_Russia_with_krakozyabry.jpg 15:43:16 <LordAro> frosch123: amazing 15:45:09 <andythenorth> hmm so I could just fork to read industry registers from GS 15:45:24 <andythenorth> then I'll have to learn how to merge :P 15:45:26 <andythenorth> oof 15:47:26 <TrueBrain> is openttdcoop now really dead? Seems offline for more than a few days now :( 15:48:17 <Rubidium> if so, then you got your savegames just in time 15:48:25 <TrueBrain> that is for sure 15:48:58 <LordAro> probably just needs planetmaker to kick it? 15:49:07 <andythenorth> pm is maybe on holiday 15:49:09 <andythenorth> seems quite dead 15:49:17 <LordAro> hopefully 15:49:28 <LordAro> (hopefully on holiday, not quite dead) 15:49:54 <andythenorth> hmm where's the accessor for PersistentStorage 15:50:28 <glx> direct access I think 15:50:39 <andythenorth> yeah looks like a loop 15:50:44 <andythenorth> and the GS would need a grfid 15:51:23 <andythenorth> there's not a trivial function I can just reuse 15:51:54 <andythenorth> hmm, I think TrueBrain's idea is better than any of mine :( 15:52:01 <andythenorth> disappointing :D 15:52:32 <TrueBrain> I agree, disappointing 16:05:45 <andythenorth> who else has ideas in the world? 16:07:37 <frosch123> check suggestion forum 16:07:38 * frosch123 hides 16:14:45 <andythenorth> suggestions -> 127.0.0.1 16:15:50 <glx> no you still receive them ;) 16:28:35 <TrueBrain> did you hack his machine and are you forwarding 127.0.0.1 to tt-forums? That is just evil 16:33:37 <Samu> https://webster.openttdcoop.org/index.php?channel=openttd this site doesn't open 16:34:12 <glx> known 16:34:21 <andythenorth> 'is openttdcoop now really dead?' 16:34:22 <andythenorth> etc 16:34:26 <Samu> DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN 16:34:35 <Samu> no idea what this error is 16:34:43 <TrueBrain> andythenorth: how do you set Industry text in NewGRF? 16:34:53 <glx> callback 16:36:31 <glx> https://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/Callbacks#Show_additional_text_in_industry_window_.283A.29 16:36:50 <TrueBrain> tnx 16:38:17 <Samu> @logs 16:38:20 <Samu> @log 16:38:23 <Samu> :( 16:38:31 <glx> https://irclogs.thegrebs.com/openttd/2021/08/22 16:38:54 <TrueBrain> bit laggy, this bot 16:38:55 <TrueBrain> :P 16:39:02 <glx> not a bot 16:39:08 <TrueBrain> ooowwwwhhhhhhh 16:39:21 <LordAro> that's exactly what a bot would say 16:39:50 <TrueBrain> past the turing test for me! 16:39:53 <TrueBrain> past? passed 16:40:00 <TrueBrain> so difficult, the English language 16:40:10 <glx> sound the same IIRC 16:40:27 <LordAro> in some accents 17:07:09 *** Wormnest has joined #openttd 17:17:31 <andythenorth> hmm what if OpenTTD just had a specific callback for firing GS event? 17:17:42 <andythenorth> and it was limited to certain features? 17:18:07 <andythenorth> and it just looped, like the articulated vehicles callback 17:18:43 <andythenorth> until 'terminate callback' is returned 17:18:44 <andythenorth> and the 'event' was just a string of text that GS could parse? 17:19:00 <andythenorth> called every n ticks 17:27:01 <andythenorth> 256 ticks, or monthly 17:27:04 <andythenorth> something like that 17:29:17 <frosch123> https://wiki.openttd.org/en/Development/Design%20Drafts/GS-NewGRF%20Communication%20via%20JSON <- look, only 6 years old 17:31:07 <andythenorth> town control somewhere also :P 17:36:59 <TrueBrain> that describes GS -> NewGRF, if I am getting it right, not? 17:37:29 <frosch123> both 17:37:58 <frosch123> but due to how newgrf and gs work, some communication is async and some is sync 17:38:03 <TrueBrain> yeah, ofc 17:38:13 <TrueBrain> but I miss the NewGRF -> GS part .. well, in a free format, that is 17:38:13 <frosch123> newgrf triggering gsevent makes no sense to me, it would just overload the evene queue 17:38:20 <frosch123> gs polling newgrf is more robust 17:38:56 <TrueBrain> I was about to comment, as it is funny to me, to me the reverse makes a lot less sense :D 17:39:25 <frosch123> "newgrf -> gs" is the first one "gs/ai info query callback" 17:39:32 <frosch123> just that gs have to poll for the information 17:39:42 <TrueBrain> but GS is in the lead again :) 17:39:48 <TrueBrain> so that is more GS -> NewGRF to fetch data :D 17:40:15 <frosch123> yes, the assumption is, 2000 industries on map, 1 GS 17:40:25 <frosch123> the GS defines the speed of the communication :p 17:40:44 <TrueBrain> this reminds me too much of things like ModBus 17:40:47 <TrueBrain> I go hide in a corner for a bit to recover 17:41:40 <TrueBrain> what I do wonder, as I read more of this "JSON" stuff .. is JSON really meant here? Or just some dict-like format? 17:41:54 <TrueBrain> As Squirrel has a dict-format 17:41:58 <TrueBrain> and NewGRF cannot really read JSON anyway 17:42:00 <frosch123> we already have json for gs<->admin port 17:42:06 <TrueBrain> so going via true JSON is rather inefficient :P 17:42:21 <TrueBrain> so I keep reading it as "some internal format that acts like a dict" 17:42:28 *** Smedles has quit IRC 17:42:29 <TrueBrain> but not sure that is what is meant :D 17:42:32 <frosch123> that reading is fine 17:43:02 <TrueBrain> (otherwise I am missing a piece of the puzzle, basically :D) 17:43:08 <frosch123> gs send/receive data as squirrel table 17:43:33 <frosch123> newgrf have some kind of structure template, and extract/fill parameters from them 17:43:51 <TrueBrain> yeah, okay :) Then I am in sync :) 17:44:10 *** Donk has quit IRC 17:46:26 <TrueBrain> I am still fuzzy on parameters etc in NewGRF 17:46:34 <TrueBrain> but I have yet to touch it .. I should work on TrueGRF more :P 17:57:00 *** Smedles has joined #openttd 18:02:44 <TrueBrain> frosch123: that wiki page talks about industry .. is that meant as example, and should this just work for everything? Or is there a reason to only target this at industries? 18:05:56 <andythenorth> industries are the most useful case 18:06:06 <andythenorth> vehicles could be plausible...but eh, there could be .... a lot 18:06:09 <TrueBrain> I keep hearing you blab about Towns, for example :P 18:06:56 <andythenorth> towns don't have a real newgrf feature 18:06:57 <andythenorth> it's fake 18:07:07 <andythenorth> so there's currently nothing in grf that could be called 18:07:10 <andythenorth> houses might be valid though 18:07:31 <frosch123> TrueBrain: the action14 part is more general 18:07:32 <TrueBrain> Houses .. Towns ... either way, my question remains: is this meant as narrow-scope, or as global-scope :) 18:07:43 <frosch123> it can also be used by vehicle newgrf, to explain usage, or similar 18:07:57 <frosch123> but for in-game communication, only industries make sense 18:09:01 <frosch123> the wiki page is from the days of "gs do towns, newgrf do industries, how can they cooperate" 18:09:17 *** Donk has joined #openttd 18:09:18 <frosch123> there is another page from before gs, with how to do towns via newgrf :p 18:09:27 <frosch123> andy keeps crying about that one :) 18:09:39 <TrueBrain> guess the answer is: not 18:09:39 <TrueBrain> :D 18:09:52 <TrueBrain> written really large on a single page? :P 18:11:27 <frosch123> i guess the "gs announcement board" can also be read by houses, to prefer houses of a specific style in a town 18:11:44 <frosch123> but that ultimately breaks because towns are generated before gs starts 18:11:47 <TrueBrain> maybe also useful for stations or something? 18:11:49 <frosch123> chicken-egg :) 18:11:51 <TrueBrain> people can come up with crazy shit :P 18:13:04 <andythenorth> town types could have been done in grf :P 18:13:11 <andythenorth> with a 'town founded' callback 18:13:14 <andythenorth> but there's no town 18:13:17 <andythenorth> "there is no spoon" 18:14:36 *** virtualrandomnumber has joined #openttd 18:15:03 *** virtualrandomnumber has quit IRC 18:19:35 *** jottyfan has joined #openttd 18:39:22 *** Flygon has quit IRC 18:41:48 *** jottyfan has quit IRC 18:41:54 *** Donk has quit IRC 18:54:19 *** Donk has joined #openttd 19:13:16 <andythenorth> frosch123 so can we implement it? :P 19:17:22 <frosch123> tb is the only one who implements anything 19:17:43 <frosch123> though maybe he got a job by now 19:17:43 <TrueBrain> yet no reviewers :'( 19:17:54 <TrueBrain> I did :) 19:18:35 *** WormnestAndroid has quit IRC 19:18:53 *** WormnestAndroid has joined #openttd 19:24:17 <frosch123> is it the job where you ranted about std::filesystem ? 19:24:32 <TrueBrain> without doubt 19:24:50 *** jottyfan has joined #openttd 19:24:55 <TrueBrain> using / operator for shit like this is idiotic, and I tell everyone that wants to hear :P 19:25:20 <LordAro> i like it 19:25:45 <LordAro> pathlib does it too, which is probably what it was inspired by 19:25:49 <TrueBrain> you are free to have that opinion; it is the wrong one, but you are free to have it :P :P 19:25:56 <TrueBrain> j/k ofc :) 19:30:35 *** gelignite has quit IRC 19:53:43 *** frosch123 has quit IRC 20:10:39 <andythenorth> ok fixed my WR in tanks 20:10:42 <andythenorth> time for FIRS? 20:23:20 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] rubidium42 commented on pull request #9502: Fix #9501: [Network] crash when more than one game-info query was pen… https://git.io/JEqJN 20:29:44 *** jottyfan has joined #openttd 20:29:55 *** jottyfan has quit IRC 20:53:17 *** Donk has quit IRC 21:15:30 *** Gustavo6046_ has joined #openttd 21:17:30 *** WormnestAndroid has quit IRC 21:18:35 *** WormnestAndroid has joined #openttd 21:20:15 *** Gustavo6046 has quit IRC 21:20:15 *** Gustavo6046_ is now known as Gustavo6046 21:27:21 *** WormnestAndroid has quit IRC 21:27:55 *** Samu has quit IRC 21:28:55 *** WormnestAndroid has joined #openttd 21:43:52 *** andythenorth has quit IRC 22:01:16 *** Progman has quit IRC 22:24:18 *** HerzogDeXtEr has quit IRC 22:41:34 *** Wolf01 has quit IRC 23:39:06 *** Tirili has joined #openttd