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Log for #openttd on 19th November 2022:
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2022-11-1810:55:50  <pickpacket> can someone recommend a vehicle set that adds just  few more vehicles to the game? I'm just using the base ones and the generic tram set so far. Especially ships are quite boring
10:56:51  <andythenorth> Iron Horse ๐Ÿ˜›
10:57:14  <andythenorth> only adds 858 vehicles, quite minimalist
11:12:23  <Pruple> Hardly any really
11:14:11  <EmperorJake> For ships, maybe try NewShips if Shark/Sam are too much
11:15:07  <EmperorJake> For RVs, I often recommend Mop RV as it's in the vanilla style but there's a lot more choice, but it might be too extensive for what you're looking for
11:16:34  <andythenorth> there's always OGFX+ sets
11:16:45  <andythenorth> https://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?t=50420
11:16:56  <andythenorth> https://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?t=51326#:~:text=OpenGFX%2B%20Road%20Vehicles%20enhances%20default,to%20match%20the%20OpenGFX%20style.&text=What%20is%20included%3F,as%20ECS%2C%20PBI%20or%20FIRS.
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11:20:07  <andythenorth> hmm
11:20:18  <andythenorth> idea for stupid game mechanic
11:20:33  <andythenorth> if the town is happy, station ratings increase
11:23:24  <petern> Morning
11:23:44  <petern> Post-ride protein bar for breakfast, oops
11:24:29  <pickpacket> andythenorth: what would make a city happy?
11:24:41  <andythenorth> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1008473233844097104/1043486972775256064/image.png
11:24:41  <andythenorth> petern: chunky industry colour blocks
11:24:46  <andythenorth> looks nice
11:25:21  <andythenorth> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1008473233844097104/1043487139809206302/image.png
11:25:21  <andythenorth> cargo flow ... should be chunky?
11:25:39  <andythenorth> pickpacket: delivering goods, food etc
11:26:05  <pickpacket> andythenorth: isn't that what increases station ratings though? :)
11:26:15  <andythenorth> I first considered giving industries an 'efficiency' factor, so that happy towns mean 100% efficient
11:26:20  <petern> Maybe
11:26:27  <pickpacket> so increased station ratings -> increased happiness -> GOTO 1
11:26:38  <andythenorth> but the game already has a super awesome, elon musk level bestness of deleting 30% of cargo produced by industries ๐Ÿ˜›
11:26:41  <petern> pickpacket: To make the game fun, and short.
11:26:54  <pickpacket> haha yeah
11:27:03  <petern> Which is needed for a live stream
11:27:19  <andythenorth> or for playing with friends
11:27:29  <petern> Either quick fun game, or long-term planning play
11:27:49  <petern> I don't have friends so that's ok
11:27:59  <andythenorth> petern: but you have us!
11:28:04  <andythenorth> it's like friends, but different
11:28:25  <andythenorth> I think we should change how we review PRs: there should be a heading for 'would Elon suggest this?'
11:28:35  <andythenorth> and all our PRs should require a screenshot of the actual code
11:29:22  <petern> Ban him
11:29:44  <andythenorth> how about a message for 'prospecting failed'?
11:29:51  <andythenorth> I mean..it's obvious and all you can do is click again
11:29:55  <andythenorth> but sometimes it seems broken
11:31:06  <andythenorth> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1008473233844097104/1043488585556426802/unknown.png
11:31:06  <andythenorth> maybe we should have an animation popup
11:35:34  <Pruple> ok so
11:35:41  <Pruple> mops instead of hogs?
11:36:45  <andythenorth> praps
11:36:51  <reldred> mawp
11:36:59  <Pruple> aces high, gronks wild?
11:37:01  <reldred> mops is good
11:37:05  <Pruple> dealer must stand on a box
11:40:23  <Pruple> firs with double enhanced/gung ho?
11:41:01  <andythenorth> yes yes
11:41:08  <andythenorth> Arctic Basic was the best badger?
11:41:13  <Pruple> I think so
11:41:13  <andythenorth> also reindeer
11:41:17  <andythenorth> christmas theme
11:41:21  <Pruple> oh
11:41:32  <andythenorth> I should make it feature rudolph
11:42:09  <Pruple> transport 10k rudolphs in 5 years
11:42:21  <andythenorth> reindeer -> stockyard
11:42:26  <andythenorth> -> sausages
11:45:31  <Pruple> glow in the dark rudolph sausages
11:45:34  <Pruple> yum
11:45:50  <andythenorth> the best
11:45:55  <LordAro> is this still english?
11:46:57  <andythenorth> rudolph isn't English silly
11:46:59  <andythenorth> Finnish
11:47:09  <andythenorth> no reindeer wild in England
11:47:47  <petern> andythenorth: Bug report?
11:48:55  <andythenorth> looking if we have one already
11:48:59  <andythenorth> surprisingly, no
11:49:07  <Pruple> such road trains in mop rv
11:49:49  <andythenorth> found this https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/issues/2445
11:52:00  <petern> Is it totally random now?
11:52:45  <petern> I ache. Too old for cycling hard ๐Ÿ˜ฆ
11:54:36  <Eddi|zuHause> somehow whenever someone mentions reindeer, my first thought is the "mom is santa" commercial
11:55:09  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] andythenorth opened issue #10181: [Bug]: no message to player when industry prospecting fails https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/issues/10181
11:55:43  <andythenorth> petern: not sure, wonder if it does anything weird like favour tiles nearer the start of the map array
11:56:17  <andythenorth> 'prospect near' would be nice, but I could just do that in FIRS?
11:56:22  <Pruple> invariably the way I use prospect is to hit it a dozen times, then hit delete to close the message popups... I assume that's typical of most players
11:56:26  <andythenorth> 100% of players use FIRS, yes?
11:56:47  <Pruple> pro players use XIS, it is more
11:57:16  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: more like 0.1%
11:57:29  <Pruple> so I put a server up if you want to see if this works
11:57:37  <andythenorth> but we won't fix anything in the game if it can be fixed in grf
11:57:50  <andythenorth> so 99.9% of players can't access fixes?
11:57:57  <andythenorth> Pruple: yes
11:57:59  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: i don't think how newgrf could solve that in a reasonable way
11:58:02  <andythenorth> I should get headphones for words
11:58:05  <Pruple> server is "the five year plan", password is rudolph
11:58:13  <Pruple> words is here or on other server?
11:58:19  <Eddi|zuHause> s/think/see
11:58:44  <Eddi|zuHause> /
11:59:36  <Eddi|zuHause> (also, it's not a fix, it's a feature request)
11:59:49  <andythenorth> Pruple: your server?
11:59:55  <andythenorth> otherwise we get people trying to talk?
12:00:07  <Pruple> si
12:00:21  <Pruple> I think I've actually got it set up correctly this time so I can hear you too
12:01:14  <andythenorth> hurrah
12:01:35  <andythenorth> oh missing grfs ๐Ÿ˜ฆ
12:01:37  <andythenorth> such Sam
12:01:47  <Pruple> is it?
12:01:52  <andythenorth> found it
12:01:53  <andythenorth> weird grf
12:02:41  <Pruple> sam?
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12:38:47  <andythenorth> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1008473233844097104/1043505621108019320/image.png
12:38:53  <andythenorth> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1008473233844097104/1043505644252172359/image.png
12:40:48  <petern> Illegal
12:52:32  <Pruple> gunge hunge
12:52:44  <Pruple> but no saucy bevels
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12:56:42  <andythenorth> we won
13:17:16  <petern> I do, of course, have a patch for that.
13:19:08  <andythenorth> winning?
13:20:24  <petern> Yeah, if (player == andythenorth) lose();
13:23:07  <Pruple> such wide rivers
13:23:21  <Pruple> if only they were bevels
13:25:39  <andythenorth> Pruple: back in 5 mins probly
13:25:48  <andythenorth> such next game
13:25:50  <Pruple> okay, server is up again
13:25:59  <Pruple> going to get coffee or something
13:26:30  <Pruple> scrubbles: can build the trams this time
13:26:38  <ag[d]> Which FIRS economy is this one
13:26:47  <Pruple> arctic basic
13:26:55  <ag[d]> Oh right Arctic basic
13:29:55  <andythenorth> be better competitive
13:29:59  <andythenorth> moar teams!
13:31:34  <andythenorth> anyone joining?
13:31:37  <andythenorth> takes about an hour or so
13:35:44  <andythenorth> also 13.0 beta 2 when? ๐Ÿ˜›
13:35:50  <andythenorth> can't be looking at these non-bevels any more
13:38:49  <petern> When I PR these changes
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13:40:14  <Pruple> what's the go, then?
13:40:24  <Pruple> server is up, 5 years full conk
13:42:25  <andythenorth> am in
13:43:13  <Pruple> let's
13:44:56  <andythenorth> petern: join the server pls
13:45:01  <andythenorth> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1008473233844097104/1043522289066573884/image.png
13:45:05  <andythenorth> needs to be chunkier
13:45:08  <andythenorth> ^
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14:21:04  <andythenorth> ok so
14:21:22  <andythenorth> if yogscast audience could donate to plant objects
14:21:34  <andythenorth> they could pay to ruin the game on the stream
14:21:45  <andythenorth> by filling the map in with unremovables
14:22:05  <andythenorth> can we make that possible?
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14:25:07  <dP> should already be possible
14:25:16  <andythenorth> via the admin port...
14:25:32  <dP> donations -> admin port -> gs -> objects
14:28:15  <dP> I should add that to citymania and sell servers ๐Ÿ˜œ
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14:29:58  <andythenorth> yes
14:30:02  <andythenorth> or for charity ๐Ÿ˜›
14:30:02  <Pruple> what did you do
14:30:13  <andythenorth> I wanted to write Elon in the sea
14:30:17  <andythenorth> but I got bored
14:30:23  <dP> oh, desync
14:30:29  <dP> did nothing
14:30:37  <Pruple> andy you broke openttd
14:30:41  <andythenorth> I deleted an object
14:31:25  <Pruple> and it desynced everyone on the server... oops ๐Ÿ™‚
14:31:43  <andythenorth> I am good at breaking things
14:31:55  <dP> I don't even see the server now is it still running?
14:32:00  <Pruple> no it isn't
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15:17:31  <petern> andythenorth: haha
15:18:39  <TallTyler> andythenorth: Iโ€™ll be around most of today and tomorrow if you want to chat about Jingle Jam stuff
15:27:02  <petern> Hmm, time for beer?
15:28:41  <Pruple> yes
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15:51:48  <scrubbles> jingle sam
15:53:07  <Pruple> jingle bevel
16:06:28  <petern> Oh no
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18:09:50  <andythenorth> chunky jam
18:13:50  <TallTyler> Yo?
18:14:08  <andythenorth> Yo
18:14:48  <TallTyler> Did you resolve your jingle questions?
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18:17:25  <andythenorth> started, didn't finish ๐Ÿ™‚
18:17:49  <TallTyler> Still need my help?
18:17:53  <andythenorth> maybe ๐Ÿ™‚
18:18:07  <TallTyler> Ok, just let me know ๐Ÿ™‚
18:18:12  <andythenorth> wanted to pass on that Lewis had played IotC also and thought it was fun ๐Ÿ™‚
18:18:29  <andythenorth> said it was fun to see the game changed so much
18:18:31  <pickpacket> I have three trams running the same line between two stations. They tend to lump up. What do I do to space them out evenly?
18:18:31  <TallTyler> ๐Ÿ˜Š
18:18:51  <andythenorth> ok so JJ game settings suggestion is in hand
18:19:01  <andythenorth> but the idea of encouraging donations by game actions
18:19:04  <andythenorth> via the admin port
18:19:06  <andythenorth> is really nice
18:19:11  <andythenorth> but I have NFI how that is done
18:19:51  <andythenorth> I guess they're using https://help.twitch.tv/s/article/twitch-charity?language=en_US
18:20:12  <andythenorth> or something like it
18:20:50  <andythenorth> also whether we could post out e.g. GS results from the game to the feed
18:21:30  <TallTyler> Me neither, but there might be possibilities besides spamming objects (which would also require choosing a tile to place said object on). Donate $n to have a train named after your username (to avoid rude names), perhaps
18:22:42  <TallTyler>  to change the company colour
18:22:49  <dP> there are servers that post results in the discord
18:23:15  <dP> I could do that too just don't want
18:23:33  <TallTyler> Can it go the other way, to make changes in the game?
18:23:47  <dP> it can
18:24:22  <dP> well, idk how to do that "officially" via admin port either
18:24:29  <dP> but with patched server it's np
18:24:36  <andythenorth> yes renaming vehicles and renaming towns would be a thing
18:24:42  <andythenorth> they've done towns before, manually
18:25:08  <andythenorth> rude messages, they're not very worried, they can always fix
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18:28:40  <andythenorth> dP: offer a patched server for jingle jam? ๐Ÿ˜›
18:28:43  <andythenorth> dunno
18:28:50  <andythenorth> can GS read from the web?
18:28:53  <andythenorth> I guess not
18:29:06  <andythenorth> would be quite an attack vector ๐Ÿ˜›
18:29:11  <m3henry> pickpacket: Timetables are for that purpose: https://wiki.openttd.org/en/Manual/Timetable
18:30:19  <pickpacket> m3henry: yeah, but they seem really fiddly and prone to f-ups. :/ I wish there was a "space vehicles sharing orders evenly"
18:30:49  <TallTyler> I wonder how difficult it would be (not for this yearโ€™s stream of course) to have some kind of public spectator mode where the spectator limit doesnโ€™t apply and spectators canโ€™t even send messages. Like a web server running a read-only copy of the game. Synchronizing would probably be an issueโ€ฆ
18:30:53  <m3henry> train fever / transport fever does that for all vehicles on a route that don't have a load until full order
18:31:09  <andythenorth> TallTyler: would be interesting
18:31:24  <andythenorth> I wondered about 'play against YC' mode, but sharded, with a web high score table
18:31:28  <andythenorth> but we don't have time ๐Ÿ˜›
18:32:06  <andythenorth> multiple servers, all synchronised to start game ~simultaneously
18:33:17  <Olionkey> speaking of jingle jam stuff I think Klutz was recommending some stuff to the Spiffing brit team
18:33:57  <TallTyler> Theyโ€™d have to be separate games without a ghost mode to avoid building on the same tile, but would totally be possible. I think Master Hellish does that with some of his series
18:34:06  <andythenorth> a long time ago, when GS was invented, frosch was tracking high scores in the wiki
18:34:25  <andythenorth> but it would be quite nice to have a monthly GS game running
18:34:39  <andythenorth> multiple servers, anybody can join and start any time
18:34:43  <TallTyler> Official monthly challenge?
18:34:46  <andythenorth> short GS games, a few hours
18:34:48  <pickpacket> is the spiff going to play OpenTTD for this year's JJ?
18:34:56  <TallTyler> Like Mini Metro daily challenge?
18:35:06  <andythenorth> probably something like that
18:35:20  <TallTyler> Sounds like something nobody would want to maintain ๐Ÿ˜›
18:35:34  <andythenorth> pickpacket, I don't know who's playing but OpenTTD will be the JJ opener
18:35:45  <pickpacket> :D
18:35:51  <pickpacket> When and where can I watch it?
18:35:56  <andythenorth> 1 Dec
18:36:01  <pickpacket> I.e. watch someone streaming the event
18:37:17  <dP> andythenorth: I'd like to but wouldn't be able to code things before 1 dec
18:37:26  <andythenorth> fair
18:37:34  <pickpacket> Did this patch never make it into the game? https://bugs.openttd.org/task/1128
18:37:52  <dP> TallTyler: that's pretty easy actually, just send the game and all network commands to the web
18:38:07  <dP> I was thinking of doing it but tmwftlb
18:38:23  <TallTyler> Timetable separation exists in JGRPP but nobody has taken the time to upstream it to vanilla yet. Itโ€™s on my list of things I want to do eventually.
18:39:50  <pickpacket> TallTyler: <3
18:39:57  <dP> andythenorth: that's kinda like citymania works except map is random because doesn't matter much and it's nice to have some variety
18:40:02  <dP> can always make it the same ofc
18:41:16  <dP> was also thinking of making some monthly challenges as well xD
18:41:25  <dP> not quite that way though
18:41:57  <andythenorth> how does Citymania work? ๐Ÿ˜ฎ
18:42:18  <andythenorth> I only ever talked to you about gameplay stuff / patches, not how Citymania runs challenges
18:42:36  <andythenorth> so does everyone get the same map, but play async?
18:42:50  <dP> there are highscore tables on the web for each game mode <https://citymania.org/goal/52/best-scores>
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18:43:04  <andythenorth> yeah I saw those before ๐Ÿ™‚
18:43:12  <dP> map is different but it's generated in a way that it doesn't matter much
18:43:23  <dP> you can beat highscores on pretty much every map
18:43:41  <dP> i.e. all towns are generated with the same number of houses in cb
18:45:34  <andythenorth> neat
18:45:58  <andythenorth> monthly GS game ๐Ÿ˜›
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18:46:58  <dP> I did some events on citymania but they weren't very popular :(
18:47:03  <dP> <https://citymania.org/events/5-christmas-event-2021> last one
18:47:38  <andythenorth> 3 players
18:47:45  <andythenorth> I see ๐Ÿ™‚
18:48:02  <dP> well, I also played just didn't include in scores xD
18:49:06  <dP> was trying hard not to win my own event but failed ๐Ÿคฃ
18:49:47  <andythenorth> nobody here ever wants to join our Pruple games either ๐Ÿ˜›
18:49:50  <andythenorth> nvm
18:50:10  <Olionkey> Most people just join the jgr servers
18:50:19  <dP> cargo goals are kinda boring imo
18:58:24  <TallTyler> Iโ€™d join if you didnโ€™t play in the middle of the night ๐Ÿ˜›
19:00:36  <petern> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1008473233844097104/1043601705587191998/image.png
19:00:36  <petern> Almost
19:02:31  <andythenorth> TallTyler: asynchronous challenge server ๐Ÿ˜›
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19:06:30  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LC-Zorg opened issue #10182: [Detail]: Permissive Local Authorities - improper, confusing order of options in the settings window https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/issues/10182
19:07:00  <petern> Heh, so when you toggle the cheat, the lines become taller, and so does the panel, as expected. The unexpected bit is it eats into the viewport widget rather than adjusting the window size ๐Ÿ˜„
19:07:30  <andythenorth> then if you toggle the cheat off
19:07:40  <andythenorth> the viewport remains smaller
19:07:49  <andythenorth> or something
19:08:08  <andythenorth> ^ Zorg is right 1 in 10 times, this is one of them ๐Ÿ˜›
19:08:14  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN commented on issue #10182: [Detail]: Permissive Local Authorities - improper, confusing order of options in the settings window https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/issues/10182
19:09:48  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LC-Zorg opened issue #10183: [Bug]: Permissive local authorities - inconsistent reactions in relation to the assessment of the company https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/issues/10183
19:11:22  <andythenorth> no idea what that's about
19:13:29  <TallTyler> Yeah Iโ€™m stumped
19:14:38  <TallTyler> Oh, maybe itโ€™s about the rating still changing even though it no longer restricts company actions
19:15:26  <TallTyler> As for the order of the settings, I guess I could do some saveload magic to re-order the settings?
19:17:57  <JGR> That creates issues with openttd.cfg
19:18:48  <JGR> It's much simpler overall to just populate the dropdown in a different order with the same values
19:21:10  <andythenorth> ++
19:21:31  <andythenorth> abstracting dropdowns for order is probably the major part of any UI engineering job ๐Ÿ˜›
19:22:02  <andythenorth> 95% of my grf code is just about controlling the order of things ๐Ÿ˜›
19:22:16  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN opened pull request #10184: Fix: Indent production in industry window and resolve button issues. https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/10184
19:22:41  <JGR> It's really not a major thing to re-order dropdowns
19:22:51  <petern> I didn't look ๐Ÿ˜‰
19:23:21  <andythenorth> in my life, it's usually one line of code ๐Ÿ˜›
19:23:40  <andythenorth> often said, but rarely true ๐Ÿ˜›
19:24:41  <TallTyler> Is that true in OpenTTD though? I thought the only dropdown control we have is the flag in the `_settings.ini` file
19:25:04  <JGR> You're allowed to add more flags
19:25:17  <JGR> You have commit powers now, be bold ๐Ÿ˜›
19:25:37  <petern> That... doesn't change much ๐Ÿ™‚
19:25:52  <TallTyler> Is there an example of manually ordered dropdowns anywhere else in the game?
19:26:40  <JGR> Most of them outside the settings window
19:27:00  <petern> It's just a vector of some *ListItems
19:27:53  <JGR> For what it's worth I've got various settings with re-ordered or discontinuous values in my branch, it is useful at times
19:29:51  <TallTyler> Iโ€™ll have to take a look at how youโ€™ve implemented that
20:22:28  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] michicc approved pull request #10184: Fix: Indent production in industry window and resolve button issues. https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/10184#pullrequestreview-1187117107
20:56:16  <petern> <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NI0rDaEpTvI>
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