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Log for #openttd on 11th January 2023:
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00:54:38  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SimozzzAK opened issue #10334: [Crash]:  https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/issues/10334
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00:56:32  <Simo333> Oh, neat
00:57:05  <Simo333> Seems that service at depot is cause of crash after all...
01:04:45  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SimozzzAK commented on issue #10334: [Crash]:  https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/issues/10334
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01:23:58  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] JGRennison commented on issue #10334: [Crash]:  https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/issues/10334
01:25:52  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PikkaBird commented on issue #10334: [Crash]:  https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/issues/10334
01:31:56  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SimozzzAK commented on issue #10334: [Crash]:  https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/issues/10334
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01:36:26  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PikkaBird commented on issue #10334: [Crash]:  https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/issues/10334
01:37:59  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] JGRennison commented on issue #10334: [Crash]:  https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/issues/10334
01:47:46  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SimozzzAK commented on issue #10334: [Crash]:  https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/issues/10334
01:53:12  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] JGRennison commented on issue #10334: [Crash]:  https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/issues/10334
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03:31:28  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PikkaBird opened issue #10335: [Bug]: Object menu scrollbar not active until I click on something else https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/issues/10335
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08:38:40  <petern> Yeah, possibly because the window no longer gets resized due to fixing that issue, it doesn't update the scrollbar capacity 🙂
08:39:41  <Pruple> 👍
08:40:54  <petern> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1008473233844097104/1062652312704798841/image.png
08:40:55  <petern> This is not an ideal use of space...
08:41:28  <Pruple> it is a very silly category name
08:46:55  <andythenorth> variants
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08:59:45  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN opened pull request #10336: Fix #10335: Set initial scrollbar count for object GUI. https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/10336
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09:25:56  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro approved pull request #10336: Fix #10335: Set initial scrollbar count for object GUI. https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/10336#pullrequestreview-1243554705
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11:36:10  <petern> Maybe we need a horizontal scrollbar for long class descriptions 😉
11:41:52  <petern> andy, how many commits in Iron Horse?
11:47:08  <pickpacket> Is it possible to have a scrollable side pane where all open windows are, instead of having them clutter all over the screen?
11:47:58  <petern> If you wrote it, probably yes.
11:48:10  <petern> But windows come in many different widths.
12:04:13  <Samu> what is random_initial_bits and random_var8f used for in industries? need examples
12:05:16  <pickpacket> petern: it could adapt itself to the widest window, or preferably be resizable and have horizontal scroll as well
12:05:39  <pickpacket> I'd like to write it... It's just that I've never written C++ before
12:05:51  <pickpacket> and wouldn't know where in the code to start
12:18:47  <Samu> im so unfamiliar with newgrf stuff :(
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12:30:23  <petern> Difficult to know all of it 🙂
12:54:28  <pickpacket> Samu: I've just recently learned a bunch about it. Is there something in particular you'd like to know?
12:56:37  <andythenorth> petern: yes
12:57:00  <andythenorth> 6.1k
12:57:09  <petern> Ooof
12:57:26  <andythenorth> I did start squashing recently
13:06:50  <Samu> I'm investigating whether I want industries built by Scripts to use InteractiveRandom or Random
13:08:50  <pickpacket> Samu: well that's above my level of expertise :D maybe andythenorth can help?
13:08:56  <Samu> but now i'm onto company manager face
13:09:22  <Samu> picking a random face
13:09:42  <Samu> totally unrelated to industries, yeah, I know
13:26:31  <Samu> AICompany.SetPresidentGender is using InteractiveRandom
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14:01:06  <Samu> okay, the last thing to test is town name generation using random
14:05:11  <glx[d]> InteractiveRandom is expected as it doesn't affect game state
14:05:46  <glx[d]> It's like player clicking on the buttons
14:06:00  <glx[d]> Totally independent of the game state
14:08:50  <Samu> you mean that for the president gender?
14:09:15  <Samu> well there's not much the AI can do about GenderEthnicity
14:09:25  <Samu> so I guess you're right
14:26:28  <Samu> hmm this one is a bit complex
14:28:45  <Samu> GenerateTownName uses InteractiveRandom when an AI creates a town, before passing the name into the command
14:29:02  <petern> Why is that complex?
14:29:33  <Samu> since commands are only executed in server, and the command does already have the name, there won't be different names between server/clients
14:30:21  <Samu> but if we're doing single player and restart the game... the names become different
14:30:55  <petern> And that is a problem, because...?
14:31:23  <Samu> some AIs look up into town names for storing stuff, preferences, etc...
14:32:17  <petern> And? They don't store across restarts.
14:46:50  <Samu> well my ai is  the only one that creates towns
14:47:36  <Samu> but it's the other ais interacting with mine that may break repeatability
14:47:40  <Samu> hmm
14:49:22  <Samu> i actually don't make use of town names for decision making
14:52:38  <Rubidium> sounds like you want a random object for each script that is saved in the savegame. Then as long as it's restart with the same (initial) seed it should be able to repeat. Even in server vs client situations. Whether that's worth it is something else
14:53:20  <Rubidium> (random object, as in an instance of Random next to the main one for the game simulation but for each script)
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15:19:00  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] lowercase1024 opened issue #10337: [Bug]: It is impossible to fit farms and forests on small sub-arctic maps https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/issues/10337
15:36:13  <petern> "small map isn't big enough"
15:36:38  <petern> Hmm, is it tea time...
15:50:02  <Samu> I did it! without complicating the code that much
15:50:48  <kamnet> Would somebody more knowledgable than me comment on this please? https://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=1257440
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15:54:01  <glx[d]> It's not even a newgrfid as it's an AI
15:55:15  <Pruple> true, but AIs and GSs have a 4 character identifier which is essentially equivalent
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15:55:54  <glx[d]> But yes it's the typical byte order thing for scripts shortname/newgrfid
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16:07:46  <supermop_toil> yo
16:10:35  <dP> content id seems to be the last 3 bytes of md5
16:11:08  <dP> ```>>> hex(11723158)
16:11:08  <dP> '0xb2e196'```
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16:13:38  <Samu> I came up with these findings https://github.com/SamuXarick/OpenTTD/commit/9b766837be18ae9ec01f35a1e6475c368839586d
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16:14:36  <Samu> I couldn't come up with a more elegant way to deal with the town name generator one
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16:19:40  <Samu> for the industry ones, i need some that have random_initial_bits and random_var8f stuff, or random triggers in them, seems to be NewGRF only stuff
16:19:48  <Samu> could be wrong
16:20:02  <Samu> so i didn't fully tested
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16:58:58  <Pruple> supermop_toil: yoyo
17:00:00  <Pruple> Samu: so I'm sure someone has asked this, but; why?
17:24:11  <petern> Oh, we have 🙂
17:30:16  <Samu> :(
17:35:59  <FLHerne> I can see why repeatability would be useful for debugging
17:36:40  <FLHerne> start game, fast-forward for a bit, see that the AI has done something stupid but it's not obvious why, restart and inspect what happened more closely
17:37:05  <FLHerne> skeptical that can happen reliably with a reasonable amount of change though
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18:24:15  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick updated pull request #10330: Codechange: Rework 'start_date' parameter for AIs as a game setting https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/10330
18:25:09  <Samu> no more savedrandomseeds
18:25:47  <Samu> regression result changes were triggered
18:26:43  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN merged pull request #10336: Fix #10335: Set initial scrollbar count for object GUI. https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/10336
18:26:46  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN closed issue #10335: [Bug]: Object menu scrollbar not active until I click on something else https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/issues/10335
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18:27:49  <Samu> should I create a separate PR for these: https://github.com/SamuXarick/OpenTTD/commit/9b766837be18ae9ec01f35a1e6475c368839586d
18:28:08  <Samu> or place it on the existing PR?
18:29:08  <glx[d]> it's not related
18:38:00  <Samu> this still doesn't solve the loading of AIs with random parameters totally
18:38:02  <Samu> :(
18:38:32  <Samu> now what it randomizes to, is predictable! but it shouldn't randomize to begin with
18:42:24  <Samu> a 3rd PR maybe?
18:43:51  <Samu> because... everything is so interconnected to start_date
18:43:54  <Samu> https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/8051
18:47:38  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] DorpsGek pushed 1 commits to master https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/commit/80322b85c21f52b61bd262b9e50971d24e215833
18:47:39  <DorpsGek>   - Update: Translations from eints (by translators)
18:49:24  <Samu> this table refreshing my memory https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/8051#issuecomment-606568920
19:01:11  <supermop_toil> HMM
19:02:31  <supermop_toil> if i have a station that is Tmmme, where T is an end of the building with a tower, and e is the other end
19:02:38  <supermop_toil> and m is a middle part
19:03:18  <supermop_toil> i can use postiton from start or end to make the tower always at the north end and the e always at the south
19:03:41  <supermop_toil> but what i actually want is for the tower to be always at the left
19:04:17  <supermop_toil> ie. Tmme for \ and emmT for /
19:05:23  <supermop_toil> but the way the game selects between \ and / tiles i don't think i can choose a different set of switches based on direction
19:15:44  <frosch> you can query the orientation in va2
19:16:28  <frosch> "get_bit(tile_type, 0)" probably
19:16:41  <frosch> though maybe there should be a more explicit variable
19:19:49  <supermop_toil> https://imgur.com/1b0yZpL
19:20:34  <supermop_toil> might be too hard - but basically want the tower always at the right when looking from the tracks, and the 'back of the buildings to face the tracks
19:20:51  <supermop_toil> and i don't want it to change due to later rebuilding
19:21:57  <petern> I would do two layouts and let the player pick. No need to for any neighbouring tile test then.
19:23:25  <supermop_toil> what if i don't trust the lowly player to have good sense or taste
19:23:39  <supermop_toil> if they are using my grf they must have poor taste already
19:24:29  <supermop_toil> i want to avoid an ISR style thing where each and every segment of a building is its own separate type to build
19:25:08  <supermop_toil> and be able to get pretty close to ok looking stations by just "drag platforms, maybe drag building"
19:26:49  <supermop_toil> that is, the player i don't trust is myself
19:27:23  <nielsm> can't you make the sprites for the two ends be "wrong" in their other rotation?
19:27:56  <nielsm> instead of trying to select a different tile, just use the other graphic
19:28:17  <supermop_toil> nielsm: i did think about that!
19:28:50  <supermop_toil> idk if that lets me also handle the streetside/trackside issue
19:29:35  <supermop_toil> in fact i coded it that way last night but couldn't get it to show up in game, so i'll need to work on it further tonight after work
19:38:36  <supermop_toil> this building is too big relative to houses, but still too small relative to tracks and sheds
19:41:54  <supermop_toil> weird that stations can only store the build date post 1920
19:42:02  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick updated pull request #10330: Codechange: Rework 'start_date' parameter for AIs as a game setting https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/10330
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20:05:03  <petern> Only for NewGRF variable purposes.
20:05:20  <reldred> supermop_toil: Holdover from TTDPatch
20:09:43  <supermop_toil> the 1920 thing?
20:10:32  <supermop_toil> is there another way to get the age? for making roofs rusty etc
20:19:38  <FLHerne> seems not
20:20:09  <glx[d]> spec is old
20:21:33  <FLHerne> also, I /think/ it's the age of the station as a whole, rather than the tile?
20:21:39  <FLHerne> I might be misreading how this works
20:25:38  <dP> iirc stations only store the date of last modification
20:29:06  <FLHerne> ah
20:29:17  <FLHerne> then the nml variable is probably misnamed :p
20:29:53  <dP> idk about nml but info tool in the game has it misnamed for sure xD
20:31:15  <FLHerne> yeah, definitely last-modified
20:32:25  <glx[d]> nml name follows the description in nfo
20:33:08  <dP> having actual build date in the game would be useful
20:33:24  <dP> grf vars can probably be switched to it as well
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21:18:06  <supermop_toil> hmm the lamp i want to use in this hotel lobby is ,000
21:18:16  <supermop_toil> i have a ,500 budget
21:18:38  <supermop_toil> oops
21:18:58  <glx[d]> is it made of gold ?
21:21:52  <supermop_toil> made of expensive hourly labor
21:22:14  <supermop_toil> i mean it is a centerpiece accent chandelier for a hotel
21:22:43  <supermop_toil> 2500 is probably unrealistically low.... but 20,000 is quite high for this particular light
21:23:13  <andythenorth> was it cat?
21:23:49  <supermop_toil> 20 week lead time
21:24:08  <supermop_toil> the artist has to paint it by hand
21:24:44  <supermop_toil> oh the 20,000 does not include shipping either
21:25:19  <supermop_toil> ugh
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21:39:21  * glx[d] just discovered wslg works on windows 10 19044+
21:43:23  <glx[d]> seems not a very old change https://github.com/microsoft/wslg/commit/5886a29a21232dfd87bd50d14e431ddae24663a8
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22:00:39  <Samu> I'm dumb :( how smart is it to report an OpenTTD issue with screenshots from my custom builds
22:39:43  <FLHerne> not
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22:44:21  <reldred> glx[d]: Yeah I was gonna say, I was running WSLg on my win10 machines before I upgraded to Win11
22:44:51  <glx[d]> but it's 'recent'
22:46:08  <glx[d]> at least in the docs
22:47:34  <Samu> got 14 screenshots to report a bug tomorrow
22:48:21  <Samu> the randomizing of settings after loading
22:49:48  <Samu> there were previous attempts describing the bug in PRs, but it didn't work out
22:50:16  <reldred> glx[d]: I dunno what to say my dude,
22:52:52  <reldred> Win10 21H1 mainlined it.
22:53:31  <reldred> It was available earlier on win10 insider builds
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23:34:35  <glx[d]> hmm and building on wsl is stuck on cmake_depends

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