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00:00:08 *** Eddi|zuHause2 [i=johekr@p54B776A1.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:01:13 *** Hagbard_Ub [n=hagbard@81-235-253-135-no24.tbcn.telia.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 00:02:25 *** Hagbard_Ub [n=hagbard@81-235-253-135-no24.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #openttd 00:05:21 *** RichK67 [n=RichK67@194.164.100.143] has left #openttd [] 00:09:25 *** Hagbard_Ub [n=hagbard@81-235-253-135-no24.tbcn.telia.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 00:10:17 *** Hagbard_Ub [n=hagbard@81-235-253-135-no24.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #openttd 00:12:21 *** MagusX [i=t7DS@201.41.25.102] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 00:15:26 *** Sacro [n=Sacro@adsl-83-100-210-60.karoo.KCOM.COM] has quit ["using sirc version 2.211+KSIRC/1.3.12"] 00:16:33 *** Hagbard_Ub [n=hagbard@81-235-253-135-no24.tbcn.telia.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 00:17:33 *** Hagbard_Ub [n=hagbard@81-235-253-135-no24.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #openttd 00:18:20 *** Sacro [n=Sacro@adsl-87-102-35-41.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd 00:20:06 *** Hagbard_Ub [n=hagbard@81-235-253-135-no24.tbcn.telia.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 00:21:06 *** Hagbard_Ub [n=hagbard@81-235-253-135-no24.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #openttd 00:24:21 <bulio> I don't really understand how signals work 00:24:29 <bulio> they turn red if 2 trains are on hte same track? 00:24:32 <Sacro> bulio: in what wya? 00:24:45 <Sacro> bulio: a signel is red if the block in front is occupoed 00:24:48 <Sacro> *occupied 00:25:51 <bulio> is there any signal tutorials? 00:26:10 <bulio> secondly, on this page 00:26:11 <bulio> http://i-want-a-website.com/about-tt/ttfaq16.html#16-1 00:26:32 <bulio> the semi-faq strategy guide, what map does it use? 00:26:51 <bulio> I'd like to use it, but with the smaller starting cities and no rails or roads built 00:29:10 <bulio> any idea? 00:29:23 <Eddi|zuHause> you might want to read http://www-user.tu-chemnitz.de/~dou/ttdx/signal.html#signals 00:29:48 <bulio> thanks 00:30:03 *** Bjarni [n=Bjarni@0x50a41639.virnxx14.adsl-dhcp.tele.dk] has quit ["Leaving"] 00:30:21 <Eddi|zuHause> but ignore anything about PBS... that is not implemented in OTTD 00:31:10 <bulio> ok 00:31:28 <bulio> has openttd been making a lot of progress? 00:31:32 <bulio> I really like the game 00:32:49 <Eddi|zuHause> yeah 00:33:08 <bulio> now lal I gotta do is find the tutorial map, but empty 00:33:11 <bulio> *all 00:33:48 <Eddi|zuHause> why? just generate an own map and play around... 00:34:28 <bulio> I prefer the flatness of that map 00:34:40 <bulio> makes it easy for me to build a network and learn how to properly play 00:34:48 <bulio> there's nothing to get in the way 00:34:59 <Eddi|zuHause> generate a very flat map (in the difficulty options) 00:36:41 *** Osai^2 [n=Osai@p54B370B9.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [] 00:37:01 *** jong [n=jong@flipflip.student.utwente.nl] has joined #openttd 00:37:40 <jong> hi, half of my fonts stopped working after updating my world... any clue on what to recompile? system is in near unusable state right now 00:38:29 <jong> oops, ECHAN 00:43:32 <Sacro> jong: what distro? 00:43:45 <Sacro> jong: "fc-cache" is worth a try :) 00:53:50 *** Sacro [n=Sacro@adsl-87-102-35-41.karoo.KCOM.COM] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 01:13:53 <CIA-3> richk * r5232 /branch/MiniIN/ (7 files in 4 dirs): 01:13:53 <CIA-3> [MiniIN]: [ItalianTownNames]: Added Italian Town Name generator. 01:13:53 <CIA-3> Many thanks to Sidewinder for MiniIN version of patch. 01:26:03 *** The-Moon [n=The-Moon@c-68-45-84-249.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #openttd 01:28:49 <CIA-3> richk * r5233 /branch/MiniIN/train_gui.c: [MiniIN]: [GRF Cargo Subtype]: Removed unused variable. 01:34:05 <CIA-3> richk * r5234 /branch/MiniIN/ (patches/MiniINpatches.txt patches/MiniINpatches.zip window.c): [MiniIN]: [ToolbarFix]: Added Toolbar fix to adjust position at which Station and Depot windows open to not cover the parent toolbar. 01:39:27 *** guru3 [n=guru3@2002:51e7:e65f:1:0:0:0:1] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 01:39:45 *** guru3 [n=guru3@2002:51e7:e65f:1:0:0:0:1] has joined #openttd 01:40:18 *** Hagbard_Ub [n=hagbard@81-235-253-135-no24.tbcn.telia.com] has quit ["Leaving"] 01:41:17 *** Tobin [n=Tobin@c211-28-197-129.eburwd7.vic.optusnet.com.au] has joined #openttd 01:41:26 *** Trippledence [n=Trippled@cust183-dsl52.idnet.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 01:41:57 *** Trippledence [n=Trippled@cust183-dsl52.idnet.net] has joined #openttd 01:46:39 *** iridium`nh [n=iridium@host-84-9-208-77.bulldogdsl.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 01:47:51 *** Trippledence_ [n=Trippled@cust183-dsl52.idnet.net] has joined #openttd 01:47:51 *** Trippledence [n=Trippled@cust183-dsl52.idnet.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 01:51:33 *** glx [i=glx@bny93-6-82-245-156-124.fbx.proxad.net] has quit ["Bye!"] 02:02:21 *** Brianetta [n=brian@82-39-52-234.cable.ubr03.benw.blueyonder.co.uk] has quit ["Tschüß"] 02:20:05 *** lws1984 [n=lws1984@ip68-9-157-1.ri.ri.cox.net] has joined #openttd 02:50:59 *** skrp [n=skrp@pool-151-205-108-94.ny325.east.verizon.net] has joined #openttd 02:50:59 *** skrp [n=skrp@pool-151-205-108-94.ny325.east.verizon.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 02:51:24 *** skrp [n=skrp@pool-151-205-108-94.ny325.east.verizon.net] has joined #openttd 02:51:52 <skrp> where can i get past-2090 patch w/out just by itself and how do i add it? 02:52:18 <skrp> and working PBS would be nice as well :) 02:53:39 <skrp> anybody alive? 02:57:42 <Vornicus> what? 02:58:35 <skrp> is there a place where i can get all the patches for openttd and install them w/out a compilation? 02:59:02 <skrp> such as past-2090 and more or less working PBS 02:59:24 <Triffid_Hunter> skrp: well since the patches make changes to the source code, you would need to compile after applying them 02:59:29 <Vornicus> Nope. 02:59:47 <Vornicus> ALl patches to OpenTTD must be applied to the source code, and then compiled. 03:00:10 <Vornicus> this is because OpenTTD is extremely cross-platform. 03:01:27 <skrp> so if the compilation i'm using doesnt allow new fehicles or uses old versions of other patches, i'm stuch w/ it 03:01:53 <skrp> then is there an easy way to add .patch .c and other files? 03:02:09 <Vornicus> what do you mean? 03:02:37 *** Trippledence_ [n=Trippled@cust183-dsl52.idnet.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 03:02:41 *** Trippledence_ [n=Trippled@cust183-dsl52.idnet.net] has joined #openttd 03:02:53 <skrp> as far as i understood patches are in files w/ extensions .patch .c and something else 03:02:55 <skrp> right? 03:03:07 <skrp> .grf files are easy 03:03:45 <skrp> but the rest i can't figure out and there is nothing in the attached threads on forums (searching turns out too many results to go thru them) 03:03:56 *** lws1984 [n=lws1984@ip68-9-157-1.ri.ri.cox.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 03:06:16 <skrp> huh? 03:06:16 *** Trippledence_ [n=Trippled@cust183-dsl52.idnet.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 03:06:40 *** Trippledence [n=Trippled@cust183-dsl52.idnet.net] has joined #openttd 03:07:31 <Vornicus> okay. 03:07:55 <Vornicus> .c and .h files are source code files. They are the inputs to the compiler, that create the object files, that get linked together into a full program. 03:08:36 <skrp> ok 03:08:43 <skrp> and what about .patch? 03:09:01 <Vornicus> a .patch file, when applied using patch(1) or similar utilities, modifies the .c and .h files, and various support files - makefiles, for instance, which tell the compiler what things it has to do. 03:10:16 <skrp> so if i get a C compiler and get all those files, i'll be able to create my own openttd.exe w/ the patches i need? 03:10:26 <Triffid_Hunter> yep 03:11:15 <Vornicus> yes. 03:11:57 <skrp> and where can i get all the patches? the sourcecode section on openttd website? 03:12:16 <Vornicus> Patches are generally found as attachments to the forums or bug tracker. 03:12:33 <Vornicus> the source code is available on the sourcecode section. 03:13:35 <skrp> is there just a compiler program? (i dont want to install a whole suite) 03:13:54 <Triffid_Hunter> skrp: what OS? 03:14:20 <skrp> winXP 03:14:38 <Triffid_Hunter> try mingw 03:14:56 <Vornicus> MinGW is the generally accepted compiler to use for openttd. 03:15:10 <Vornicus> on Windows, that is. 03:15:52 <skrp> so i go here: http://svn.openttd.org/cgi-bin/trac.cgi/browser/trunk/?rev=5226 03:16:07 <skrp> download .c, .h, .m, .hpp files that i need 03:16:11 <skrp> and run MinGW? 03:16:19 <skrp> and .patch from forums 03:16:43 <Vornicus> not quite 03:17:17 <skrp> sorry for too many questions - as you see i'm a newb in programming 03:17:29 <Vornicus> Instead of downloading the source one file at a time, instead go http://www.openttd.org/nightly.php here, and download the gz, bz2, or zip of the source. 03:17:44 <Vornicus> (bz2 is generally the smallest of the three. Winzip et al can open all three.) 03:17:57 <skrp> will it have ALL the latest patches? 03:17:57 <Vornicus> because you need /the whole thing/ 03:18:01 <Vornicus> No. 03:18:13 <Vornicus> it has no patches already applied, it is the base OpenTTD version. 03:18:50 <skrp> oh 03:18:56 <skrp> sorry. got it 03:19:02 <skrp> first i need the original source 03:19:07 <Vornicus> -- granted, it has all the improvements made to trunk since 0.4.6 03:19:09 <Vornicus> 0.4.7 rather 03:19:20 <skrp> and then add the patches 03:19:25 <Vornicus> so it has new bridges and new stations and so forth. 03:19:27 <Vornicus> yeah. 03:19:40 <Vornicus> Though that can be tricky, now that I think about it. 03:19:57 <skrp> what do you mean? 03:20:13 <Vornicus> Well, you'll also need a patch-applying program. Windows doesn't come with one. 03:21:00 <skrp> duh 03:21:05 <skrp> what is it? 03:21:17 <Vornicus> uh 03:21:19 <Vornicus> not sure. 03:21:39 <skrp> filext doesnt have it listed 03:21:47 <Vornicus> Another option is to use TortoiseSVN to download the absolute most current source, and it has an integrated patch-application item. 03:22:00 <Triffid_Hunter> skrp: you could always install it.. http://www.gnu.org/software/patch/patch.html 03:23:10 <Vornicus> that will require that you use the command line, but I think mingw would too. 03:23:34 <skrp> all mingw downloads are .gz 03:23:49 <skrp> will totalcommander take them? 03:23:50 <Vornicus> yeah. winzip should open those. 03:24:07 <Vornicus> I don't know what totalcommander is, but if its name isn't a horrid lie, it should. 03:24:54 <skrp> it used to be windowscommander 03:25:04 <skrp> basically norton commander for windows 03:25:26 <Vornicus> I don't know what either of those are either. 03:25:36 * Vornicus is a Mac user. 03:25:49 <skrp> rich ppl :) 03:25:59 <Vornicus> Not rich. 03:26:03 * Triffid_Hunter is a gentoo linux advocate 03:26:04 <skrp> i'm kidding 03:26:04 <Vornicus> I just know what's important to me. 03:26:09 <skrp> hehe 03:26:17 <skrp> anyway 03:26:21 <skrp> i'm a little confused 03:26:28 <Vornicus> and, since I use a computer 16 hours a day, I'm willing to spend a lot of money on it. 03:26:37 <skrp> do i need both mingw and tortoise or just tortoise 03:26:43 <skrp> ? 03:26:46 <Vornicus> Both. 03:27:00 <Vornicus> Well, you can live with just mingw, but tortoise is pretty important 03:27:04 <Triffid_Hunter> skrp: tortoise just downloads the latest ver from the repository.. mingw lets you make an executable out of it 03:28:26 <skrp> and the w/ever the program from gnu's website is for patching? 03:28:53 <Triffid_Hunter> yep mingw will make a exe of that too 03:29:07 <Vornicus> yeah, but if you're getting Tortoise, you don't need gnu patch. 03:30:00 <skrp> i've downloaded an archive w/ the latest nightly and am currently installing tortoise 03:30:05 <skrp> actually done w/ it 03:30:21 <skrp> so now i gotta get mingw 03:30:23 <Vornicus> and if you're getting Tortoise, you don't need to install the nightly archive. 03:30:38 <skrp> then how do i get the source? 03:30:52 <Vornicus> because in your setup of Tortoise to handle your OpenTTD stuff, it will download the latest latest source, containing fixes even the nightly doesn't have. 03:31:43 <skrp> which mingw should i get? 03:32:09 <skrp> java, objc, g++, core or what? 03:32:25 <Vornicus> g++, I think. 03:33:20 <skrp> and the bin not src 03:34:06 <skrp> any second opinions? 03:34:10 *** Fujitsu [n=Fujitsu@c211-28-181-26.eburwd7.vic.optusnet.com.au] has joined #openttd 03:34:11 <Triffid_Hunter> not gcc? 03:34:11 *** Rexxie [n=rexxars@ti131310a080-9969.bb.online.no] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 03:34:26 <Vornicus> and bin, not src. 03:34:38 <Vornicus> not gcc: with YAPF in there, you need a C++ compiler. 03:35:13 <skrp> yay! totalcommander got it 03:35:18 <Vornicus> good. 03:35:19 <Triffid_Hunter> will he need binutils too? 03:35:37 <Vornicus> (src stands for source. You'd need to compile it. I'll let you imagine the process of building a compiler without a compiler.) 03:35:42 <Vornicus> I don't know what binutils is. 03:35:52 <Triffid_Hunter> it has make and things like that iirc 03:35:55 <skrp> but i think i got the wrong one 03:36:01 <Vornicus> mh 03:36:01 <skrp> or just the updates 03:36:08 <skrp> there are no executables 03:36:12 <Vornicus> Frankly, though, I don't know anything about Windows compilation. 03:36:14 <skrp> in the archive that is 03:36:36 <Triffid_Hunter> Vornicus: it's an arduous process 03:36:42 <Vornicus> I get that impression. 03:37:23 <Triffid_Hunter> would probably be easier with cygwin 03:37:30 <skrp> oops i've looked in the wrong folder 03:37:34 <skrp> let's see how it works 03:37:58 <skrp> hmmm 03:38:10 <skrp> none of the executables seem to have a GUI 03:38:16 <skrp> and no command line either 03:38:40 <Vornicus> they should all be command line. 03:38:58 <Vornicus> I don't know how to install them though 03:39:15 <skrp> @Triffid_Hunter: do you use it? 03:39:33 <Triffid_Hunter> skrp: usually there are instructions in a file called INSTALL 03:40:03 <Triffid_Hunter> they usually consist of cd /wherever, ./configure <configure options>, make && make install 03:41:06 <skrp> well there is no install file in the archive 03:41:07 *** ThePizzaKing [n=thepizza@c211-28-164-217.eburwd2.vic.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 03:41:33 * skrp is reading tons pages of documentations at MinGW website 03:42:22 *** Trippledence [n=Trippled@cust183-dsl52.idnet.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 03:42:35 *** Trippledence [n=Trippled@cust183-dsl52.idnet.net] has joined #openttd 03:42:47 <Triffid_Hunter> oh you're still at installing mingw eh.. just stick the bin directory in your path and see if it works 03:43:15 <skrp> i'm an idiot! i'll try MSYS 03:45:11 *** Rexxie [n=rexxars@ti131310a080-16226.bb.online.no] has joined #openttd 03:45:29 <skrp> a'ight 03:45:54 <skrp> got MSYS, which is a win32 window w/ command line and $ sign 03:46:11 <skrp> now moving to step 2: getting the patches into the compilation 03:46:12 <skrp> :) 03:47:13 *** ThePizzaKing [n=thepizza@c211-28-164-217.eburwd2.vic.optusnet.com.au] has joined #openttd 03:48:01 <skrp> which file do i enter into compiler so that everything else is added? 03:48:32 <Triffid_Hunter> usually there's a Makefile which does all that for you 03:48:57 <Vornicus> I don't know how makefiles interact with mingw and all that. 03:49:07 <Triffid_Hunter> sometimes they're generated by a script called configure which will be in the base dir of your archive if not the Makefile 03:49:37 <Vornicus> OpenTTD however allows make to run directly and immediately. I'm not sure how you get that to happen on Windows though. 03:49:41 <skrp> since we all use different compilers, let's discuss the general steps 03:50:24 <Triffid_Hunter> Vornicus: that's what binutils are for.. make processes the makefile, feeds each source to gcc and other stuff, puts all the object files together with ld to make your executable, then moves documentation and support files around, ready for make install 03:50:28 <skrp> what i need: 1)a compiler 2)Tortoise, which will apply all .patch and newer versions 3) source code 03:50:43 <Vornicus> Right. 03:50:50 <Vornicus> But 2 will get 3 for you, if you tell it to. 03:50:53 <Triffid_Hunter> skrp: i'd say you need binutils (from the mingw site) too 03:51:13 <skrp> then step 1) apply all patches thru Tortoise's GUI 03:51:43 <Vornicus> right 03:51:44 <skrp> 2) figure out how the compiler will compile openttd.exe 03:52:33 <Triffid_Hunter> skrp: btw, if you're wondering if this is what linux is like, the answer is "only if you want it to be" 03:53:19 <skrp> i used Knoppix :) 03:53:30 <Triffid_Hunter> on my system, i just type emerge openttd and it compiles and installs a recent version for me :) 03:53:56 <skrp> and i can clean install windows from command line 8-) 03:54:18 <skrp> but nevertheless i'm a fan of GUI 03:54:27 <skrp> and universal standards 03:54:37 <Triffid_Hunter> heh i made a slipstream cd when I was using windows many years ago 03:55:03 <skrp> btw, it's strange that there is no manual on compilation 03:55:12 <skrp> and application of patches 03:55:33 <Triffid_Hunter> asked two questions: partition and computer name, and pre-installed opera, nero, notepad++, firefox, etc 03:55:37 <skrp> gamers get an open-source game and still rely on other ppl to include all the patches for them 03:56:33 <Vornicus> well, yes. Most folks don't use compilers. 03:56:33 *** Trippledence [n=Trippled@cust183-dsl52.idnet.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 03:56:35 *** Trippledence [n=Trippled@cust183-dsl52.idnet.net] has joined #openttd 03:56:44 <skrp> yet at the same time there should be an easy way to add patches into openttd 03:56:48 <Triffid_Hunter> skrp: it's because patching stuff isn't specific to any one package.. afaik, all code development happens through a series of patches 03:56:50 <skrp> and a list of available patches 03:57:03 <Triffid_Hunter> so the help on patching will come with your patch utility 03:57:07 <Vornicus> A list of available patches would be nice. 03:57:11 <skrp> yeah. windows is one big patch to the previous version :) 03:57:53 <skrp> the strangest thing is that 2090 patch has been available for over a year and it's still not in the final version 04:00:49 <Vornicus> no; it changes the map format. 04:02:31 <skrp> what do you mean? 04:03:43 <Vornicus> the 2090 patch works by changing the way savegames are interpreted. 04:04:27 <skrp> btw, can i find out which patch is applied to a savegame? 04:04:41 <skrp> i cant figure out why some of my saves do not open 04:04:46 <Vornicus> Not that I'm aware of. 04:09:13 <skrp> well, once i figure out how to compile my own versions, i'll hopefully be able to open it 04:09:26 *** Belugas_Gone [n=Jfranc@216.191.111.226] has joined #openttd 04:09:36 <skrp> i've created a railroad connecting all 15 towns and all industries on the map 04:10:01 <skrp> just for fun (got the money cheat and building while paused for it) 04:10:37 <skrp> right now there are 145 trains and i need to add 90 more (goods to towns) 04:10:58 *** Vornicus [n=vorn@64-252-107-59.adsl.snet.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 04:11:04 *** Vornicus [n=vorn@64-252-107-59.adsl.snet.net] has joined #openttd 04:11:34 <skrp> did you get my latest messages? 04:12:25 <Vornicus> I didn't 04:12:37 <skrp> Triffid_Hunter: you were right about binutils 04:13:02 <skrp> Vornicus: i've built a train network connecting all 15 towns and all industries 04:13:09 <skrp> there are 145 trains so far 04:13:22 <skrp> and i'm planning on adding 90 more (goods to towns) 04:19:30 *** Belugas [n=Jfranc@216.191.111.226] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 04:24:40 *** Trippledence_ [n=Trippled@cust183-dsl52.idnet.net] has joined #openttd 04:24:41 *** Trippledence [n=Trippled@cust183-dsl52.idnet.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 04:27:11 *** Osai^2 [n=Osai@p54B370B9.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 04:29:47 *** Trippledence__ [n=Trippled@cust183-dsl52.idnet.net] has joined #openttd 04:29:47 *** Trippledence_ [n=Trippled@cust183-dsl52.idnet.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 04:30:03 *** skrp [n=skrp@pool-151-205-108-94.ny325.east.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 04:32:34 *** Trippledence_ [n=Trippled@cust183-dsl52.idnet.net] has joined #openttd 04:32:34 *** Trippledence__ [n=Trippled@cust183-dsl52.idnet.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 04:49:47 *** Trippledence__ [n=Trippled@cust183-dsl52.idnet.net] has joined #openttd 04:49:47 *** Trippledence_ [n=Trippled@cust183-dsl52.idnet.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 04:50:09 *** Fujitsu [n=Fujitsu@c211-28-181-26.eburwd7.vic.optusnet.com.au] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 04:51:10 *** Fujitsu [n=Fujitsu@c211-28-181-26.eburwd7.vic.optusnet.com.au] has joined #openttd 04:51:19 *** Osai^2 [n=Osai@p54B370B9.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [] 04:52:02 *** Fujitsu [n=Fujitsu@c211-28-181-26.eburwd7.vic.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 05:05:57 *** ThePizzaKing [n=thepizza@c211-28-164-217.eburwd2.vic.optusnet.com.au] has quit ["And he disappears, like a fox, in the night."] 05:13:32 *** ThePizzaKing [n=thepizza@c211-28-164-217.eburwd2.vic.optusnet.com.au] has joined #openttd 05:15:52 *** angerman [n=angerman@e181116201.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #openttd 05:24:52 *** Forexs [i=Forexs@x1-6-00-0f-b5-14-63-5f.k136.webspeed.dk] has quit ["Go on, get out. 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08:41:08 <peter1138> morning 08:41:37 *** Zr40_ [n=Zirconiu@zr40.xs4all.nl] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 08:42:49 <CIA-3> tron * r5239 /branch/MiniIN/tgp.c: Fetching the map dimensions once is enough 08:43:46 *** TinoM|Mobil [n=tino@VPNPOOL01-0005.UNI-MUENSTER.DE] has joined #openttd 08:44:14 <[Shaman]> RichK67_: Tell me miniIN's tgp is still the 'buggy' one and he'll have to do it again in trunk? :o 08:46:59 <RichK67_> Tron: please undo the change to temp_perlin_value (where you changed it to "temp"). .... it is named that way for clarity.... and other than that, please ask before diving into modifying the whole of TGP 08:47:51 <Tron> if it was a global variable, it would agree, but it's local to a single function and its overly long name makes it very hard to read the code 08:49:12 <RichK67_> also, if you make changes to the TGP patch inside [MiniIN] please follow my commit convention of stating [MiniIN]: [TGP]: Remove dead code ... its so i can identify what relates to what patch 08:49:43 * peter1138 waits for vs2005 to get into gear 08:50:10 <RichK67_> the problem is not *reading* the code, its UNDERSTANDING the code... temp_perlin_value is more helpful to the reader, than temp which could be anything 08:50:28 <Tron> the whole f*ing file is about perlin noise 08:50:46 <Tron> the function is named perlinFOO 08:51:34 <RichK67_> yes, but that routine needs the extra clarity; sometimes cant it be the patch author's discretion rather than your view?? or are you going to recode it all for me 08:51:44 <Tron> the value is returned, so what could this variable be about? radiointerferometry? 08:52:40 <Tron> hell, the value is even initialised from a function named perlinBAR 08:53:01 <RichK67_> well if it is name temp, it could be anything; temp_perlin_value makes it clear it isnt a temp loop var, or any other thing that "temp" can be elsewhere 08:53:31 <Tron> and if it's still unclear, read the 5 line comment above the function (which btw doesn't make any sense) 08:53:35 <RichK67_> and what does it matter how long it is; its getting compiled, and pretty much nobody will ever read it 08:53:46 <Tron> "This routine is starting to be a real terrain." <--- ? 08:54:11 <Tron> loop variables aren't named temp, they're x, y, i, j, k 08:54:38 <Tron> and don't tell me about good variable names. later there's a variable named "current_tile" 08:54:46 <Tron> it holds a height, not a TileIndex 08:54:55 <RichK67_> if it doesnt make sense, you havent understood about perlin noise 08:55:03 <Tron> if the variable was named "h" it would be way more clear, despite being a single char 08:55:32 <RichK67_> This routine is starting to be a real terrain; ie. it can be described in terrain terms rather than perlin random noise terms 08:57:43 <Tron> the routine is a terrain? 08:58:04 <Tron> a function cannot be a landscape 08:59:28 <Tron> i just want a decent landscape generator in trunk 08:59:33 <RichK67_> fine, I (note I ) will modify the comments for additional clarity when the patch is ready for dev review... until then, please leave alone (the TGP isnt the master copy anyway) 08:59:53 <RichK67_> sorry - the TGP in MiniIN isnt the master 09:00:27 <RichK67_> i totally agree, but i cant get a simple patch like NewAirports past the devs, so TGP will take 6 months 09:01:01 <Tron> airports isn't "simple" 09:01:08 <RichK67_> (Darkvater is happy with NewAirports, btw; he has reviewed with fine toothcomb) 09:01:09 <Tron> whereas a landscape generator is "simple" 09:01:14 <Tron> for certain definitions of simple 09:01:45 <Tron> airports need a change in the savegame -> not simple and practically irreversible 09:01:59 <Tron> landscape generator -> no problem 09:02:14 <RichK67_> lol - funny; from my perspective, I find writing state machines nice and simple; whereas TGP is trying some complex maths and trying to bias a random routine to give a pleasant result is a pain 09:02:37 <Tron> it's all about savegames 09:03:11 <RichK67_> tron: the only savegame change is that the station ID for airports has 4 more values; otherwise, no changes 09:03:22 <Tron> if there's a bug in the perlin implementation: well, fix it, no problem 09:03:23 <RichK67_> no structures are changed 09:03:36 <Tron> dozens of savegames with deadlocking planes: yuck 09:04:07 <Tron> otherwise no changes? no true 09:04:09 <RichK67_> tron: wont happen; i dont touch the existing airports at all 09:04:28 <Tron> if a landscape generator gets removed, there's no problem with existing savegames 09:04:46 <Tron> if airports get removed, all savegames using them are broken 09:06:01 <RichK67_> true; but that is true of any feature using a new feature; but new airports works; and has been stable in the MiniIN and IN for over 2 months; no complaints about locked planes 09:06:20 <Tron> guess why i wasn't pleased as somebody threw the bridges stuff into trunk. because it totally fucks with the savegames 09:06:42 <peter1138> hmm 09:08:21 <RichK67_> but that is like saying "we arent going to add any extra functionality that changes savegames (to the development trunk)... in case people cant continue games with the nightly" ... last i checked the nightly was at players risk, with no guarantee a save in one will load in the next 09:08:52 <RichK67_> so if a patch goes in to nightly, fails, gets pulled; no release games are affected 09:09:08 <Tron> RichK67_: svn merge -r 5239:5234 . <--- go ahead, but i was just doing necessary work for you to get it into trunk 09:10:18 <RichK67_> but i totally agree on the bridges branch - if its your dev area, people should give you right to veto inclusion; like I would say TGP is currently *not* ready for trunk; there are quirks i want to clear up first 09:10:23 <Tron> i don't want it to fail. yes, it's still the users risk, but there's no reason to jump back and forth if it's done right 09:11:12 <RichK67_> tron: i like some of your cleanups... comment areas look cleaner :) 09:11:19 <RichK67_> hang on ... work... brb 09:11:29 <Tron> i haven't looked at the airports stuff, tbh i regard it rather unimportant compared to a new landscape generator 09:12:28 *** shintah [i=bebble@bebble.olf.sgsnet.se] has joined #openttd 09:12:32 <peter1138> *sigh* 09:12:35 <peter1138> so slow :( 09:17:03 *** Zr40 [n=Zirconiu@zr40.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 09:17:27 <RichK67_> back... 09:18:12 <RichK67_> Tron: its fortunate you're doing the changes to this version of TGP, cos until last night, the MiniIN version had the VOID bug 09:19:14 <RichK67_> unfortunately it really needs a heavy multiplayer soak-test to check that there isnt another error in the generator causing the desyncs, but Shaman ran a game for the full 100 years with it recently 09:19:45 <peter1138> it shouldn't ... it's only run on the server, after all... 09:21:00 <RichK67_> yeah, i know, thats what i said initially .. but i hadnt got the VOID setting correct; it worked ok on single player, but multi was desyncing every 2-3mins 09:21:15 <RichK67_> sometimes its the map :) 09:21:52 <peter1138> hmm 09:22:20 <RichK67_> Tron: the airports are ready and complete, which is why i want them in; yes, TGP is more important, but isnt ready 09:24:05 <RichK67_> peter - we tested it; clean trunk build. with TGP map (supplied by me, as a .scn) , desyncing; without, no desyncs; had to be something with the map; and the VOID setting wasnt right 09:26:54 *** Mukke [i=Mukke@x1-6-00-13-8f-3d-00-a9.k146.webspeed.dk] has joined #openttd 09:34:51 <Tron> there are certain invariants for the map that must hold 09:35:07 <Tron> - VOID tiles at exactly the lower borders 09:35:32 <Tron> - WATER tiles around the whole map 09:35:45 *** Spoco [n=Spoco@dsl-062-197-163-65.lohjanpuhelin.fi] has joined #openttd 09:35:54 <Tron> - tile height max +-1 of it's 4 neigbours 09:36:15 <RichK67_> yeah, i just want sure whether i was setting the right VOID tiles... i am now :) 09:36:19 <Tron> - tile height < max(0, distatance_to_edge_of_map - 1) 09:36:52 <Tron> otherwise many things will go bonkers 09:37:09 <RichK67_> latter tests sorted by the "SmoothTiles" routine ... yeah, ive seen it go bonkers :) 09:37:12 <Tron> most probably out-of-bounds accesses 09:37:49 <RichK67_> yup .. as i say, it needs some good soak testing now... 09:38:24 <Tron> and i knew about the wrong void tiles, i told you were to find a correct version 09:38:44 <RichK67_> yup, thats where the code came from ... ty 09:39:19 <RichK67_> i had taken the lead from the PNGload patch; but i now think its VOID setting is incorrect 09:39:40 <RichK67_> since my Africa map had the same problems 09:39:56 <Tron> the void tiles are there to make the slope calculation happy 09:40:24 <Tron> nothing else 09:40:34 <Tron> therefore they are exactly needed at the lower edges 09:40:48 <Tron> because every tile just stores the height of its north corner 09:41:58 <RichK67_> any idea on how to prevent small maps becoming nothing but water?? should i have an explicit rule of "must be at least 25% land" or something?? 09:42:48 <Tron> calculate the histogram of your noise field 09:43:25 <Tron> from there it's simple to guarantee a minimum amount of land (plus minus the necessary terrain smoothing for the +-1 to neighbours invariant) 09:44:23 <RichK67_> you agree it should be a set minimum tho? 09:44:46 *** RichK67_ is now known as RichK67__ 09:44:54 *** jong [n=jong@flipflip.student.utwente.nl] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 09:45:53 <Tron> well 09:45:55 *** RichK67__ is now known as RichK67_wrk 09:46:03 <Tron> how does the water quantity work right now? 09:46:13 <Tron> a threshold value? everything below is water? 09:46:21 <RichK67_wrk> effectively yes 09:46:50 <Tron> so there's no guarantee 09:46:50 <RichK67_wrk> but it is unpredictable whether a given seed will *start off* underwater 09:47:00 <RichK67_wrk> yes 09:47:24 <Tron> even if you say 90% water you could end up with no water at all 09:47:27 <Tron> and vice versa 09:47:51 <Tron> always use the histogram method 09:48:28 <Tron> you won't get perfect percentages values, because of finite resolution, but you get pretty close 09:48:32 <RichK67_wrk> however, the TGP routine is extremely fast - my machine will do 1024x1024 in ~5 secs (placing towns & inds takes longer) ... so for small maps, we could do a pre-flight check that the seed is a good one 09:48:56 <Tron> calculate a noise field 09:49:04 <Tron> calculate the histogram 09:49:07 *** Zr40 [n=Zirconiu@zr40.xs4all.nl] has quit ["Leaving"] 09:49:20 <Tron> calculate the threshold for water 09:49:31 <Tron> and the scale for maximum height conversion 09:49:36 <RichK67_wrk> yeah, i can see a histogram could work; but in effect all i want fromi it is average height & max height; and then bias the water threshold from that 09:49:55 <Tron> this way you can also add a "yes, i want plateaus (sp?)" switch 09:50:50 <Tron> by altering the scale factor a bit, the higher the scale (of course you have to do max(h * scale, 15)) the more plateaus you get 09:52:26 <Tron> or even better h = (clamp(x, water_threshold, plateau_threshold) - w_thresh) * 15 / (p_thresh - w_thresh) 09:52:33 <RichK67_wrk> i think its a little less controllable than that; the variations in the perlin noise is more driven by the persistence values, and that is very much harder to bias 09:53:24 <RichK67_wrk> ah i see.. you are suggesting clipping the map above a certain height to create plateaus... 09:53:25 <Tron> and choose the two thresholds so you get close to the desired amount of water/plateaus 09:53:48 *** GoneWacko [n=gonewack@c18041.upc-c.chello.nl] has joined #openttd 09:54:00 <Tron> yes, and if the plateau threshold is == max_perlin_value you get no plateaus, just mountain spikes 09:54:55 <Tron> you could play even more fancy games by introducing a third "threshhold" to get plateaus at a certain level and then some mountain spikes ontop 09:55:13 <Tron> if below w -> water 09:55:27 <Tron> if above p -> plateau at certain height 09:55:29 <RichK67_wrk> i would probably want to limit plateau heights to 85%, 90% and 95% of height 09:55:44 <Tron> if even above s -> value - s for spikes 09:56:44 <Tron> so the values between p and s form plateaus 09:58:31 <RichK67_wrk> what i would probably do is clip at the plateau height, and then add a further noise field on top (scaled to max 2 height) to give a little vertical variation above 09:59:27 <Tron> maybe, low frequency, low amplitude 09:59:43 <RichK67_wrk> the desert terrain does something similar; flattens the middle to height 1, then adds an extra flat map on top 10:00:02 <RichK67_wrk> yeah, definitely smooth 10:00:38 <peter1138> what interpolation method does tgp use? 10:01:03 <Tron> linear iirc 10:01:35 <RichK67_wrk> simple linear... nothing fancy 10:01:58 <RichK67_wrk> the OTTD doesnt have enough resolution to warrant anything finer 10:02:03 <RichK67_wrk> OTTD map 10:04:24 <Tron> hmhm 10:04:37 <Tron> max_perlin_height is used while it still can change 10:05:51 <RichK67_wrk> damn yes!! 10:06:24 <Tron> ? 10:07:11 <RichK67_wrk> hmm - what i need is to be able to assign > Tileheight during initial creation, and then do the scaling down; 10:07:23 <Tron> ? 10:07:48 <RichK67_wrk> i have to store the generated height somewhere, and the map is the only place really 10:08:53 <RichK67_wrk> unless i run the whole routine twice :( :( to get the max value on first pass, and the scaled value on second 10:08:59 <Tron> malloc? 10:09:49 <RichK67_wrk> (at this point, my C skills disappear in a puff of smoke!! ;) im not really very familiar with things like malloc) 10:10:33 <Tron> foo* bar = malloc(number_of_elements * sizeof(*bar)); 10:10:38 <Tron> memory allocation 10:10:46 <Triffid_Hunter> RichK67_wrk: pointer_to_memory_chunk = malloc( i_want_this_much_memory ); 10:10:57 <RichK67_wrk> it would be very useful to do the initial generation into its own var array, and then read & interpret that into the final map 10:11:14 <Tron> or foo* bar = calloc(number_of_elements, sizeof(*bar)); if you want it initialised with 0 10:11:31 *** Hendy [n=wolfox@203-217-34-90.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #openttd 10:11:55 <RichK67_wrk> so if i want a MapSize() of int it is temp_map = malloc(MapSize() * sizeof(int)); ????? 10:12:11 <Tron> yes (and no) 10:12:22 <Tron> the "no" part: never use sizeof(type) 10:12:25 <RichK67_wrk> im all ears... (i look weird ;) ) 10:12:32 <Tron> always use sizeof(*variable) 10:12:40 *** scia [n=scia@AveloN.xs4all.nl] has quit ["Lost terminal"] 10:12:59 <Tron> then it just does The Right Thing(tm) 10:13:00 <Tron> always 10:13:08 <Tron> even if you change the type of the variable 10:13:30 <RichK67_wrk> ok so; int Height; temp_map = malloc(MapSize() * sizeof(Height)); ?? 10:13:41 <RichK67_wrk> *Height 10:13:43 <Tron> no 10:13:54 <Tron> sizeof(*temp_map) 10:13:59 <Tron> always the variable you assign to 10:14:09 <peter1138> i'd do: int *temp_map = calloc(MapSize(), sizeof(*temp_map)); 10:14:41 <Tron> if you want zeros, that's the Good Thing(tm) 10:14:57 <RichK67_wrk> whoa!!! thats different to mine... i will have to have a read about these! ... but i can use peter's 10:15:15 <peter1138> if you don't need it zeroed, then use malloc 10:15:16 <Tron> different to your what? 10:15:30 <peter1138> int *temp_map = malloc(MapSize() * sizeof(*temp_map)); 10:15:38 <RichK67_wrk> my understanding.. im stoopid ;) 10:15:55 <Tron> calloc just multiplies its two parameters, btw 10:16:33 <peter1138> is there any particular reason they take parameters differently like that? heh 10:16:44 <Tron> hysterical raisins 10:16:48 <peter1138> :) 10:16:55 <RichK67_wrk> ok - ill modify TGP to store the map temporarily first, and do all scaling on that 10:17:33 <Tron> is'n calculating all N octaves again _per value_ a bit inefficient? 10:18:38 <Tron> i think you can cut the number of calculations in half 10:19:12 <Tron> (frequency changes exponential, therefore just half) 10:19:12 <RichK67_wrk> the octave only looks like one in the documentation, because they have varied x... if you want a point value for a specific x, it calculates each individually 10:19:26 <Tron> yes, that's what i mean 10:19:31 <RichK67_wrk> (my code for this bit, is pretty much verbatim the original source) 10:19:41 <Tron> just calculate octave 0 once and apply it to the whole field 10:19:49 <Tron> then octave 1 and add it to the field 10:19:55 <Tron> octave 2 ... 10:20:00 <Tron> ocatave N 10:20:20 <Tron> this way you calculate each octave once instead of (N - octave_number) times 10:21:24 <Tron> 2 ** (N - octave_number) of course 10:21:34 <RichK67_wrk> its the same; i only pull one value from each octave and apply per X&Y; your suggestion just does for each octave (do all X&Y), rather than currently for each X&Y ( do all octaves) 10:22:42 <RichK67_wrk> the "octave" is a single value, not a range of values ... for each X&Y, each octave value is a single pseudo-random number 10:22:54 <Tron> well 10:23:00 <Tron> for the lowest frequency 10:23:05 <Tron> you calculate 2 points 10:23:14 <Tron> and interpolate linear between them 10:23:16 <Tron> right? 10:23:36 <Tron> size *= num; 10:23:36 <Tron> if ( (p = malloc(size)) ) 10:23:36 <Tron> bzero(p, size); 10:23:36 <Tron> return(p); 10:23:42 <Tron> somebody should get shot for this code 10:23:55 <Tron> (part of the calloc() implementation of the libc of FreeBSD) 10:25:56 <RichK67_wrk> Tron: i think you may be right, but it would be moving away from where i currently understand it working; i would prefer that an optimisation like this is done later (and probably by you, or another more experienced C code) 10:26:23 <RichK67_wrk> more experienced (than me) 10:26:42 *** Maedhros [n=jc@gentoo/developer/Maedhros] has joined #openttd 10:27:22 <Tron> pow(_opt.diff.terrain_type, 1) ?! 10:29:27 <RichK67_wrk> yup... TGP is still in development; that was a hangover from a previous variant, where i varied the max amplitude based on a power of the terrain type; i may still use it; 10:29:45 <RichK67_wrk> when i offer TGP for final review, such things will have been removed 10:30:56 <Tron> max_perlin_height shouldn't be a global 10:32:52 <peter1138> Tron: enough braces there? 10:33:00 <peter1138> that looks almost like bjarni code 10:33:10 <Tron> way too many braces for my taste 10:33:18 <Tron> esp stuff like (foo(x, y, z)) 10:34:28 <Tron> wow, the implementation of pow() is about 240 lines long 10:35:19 <Tron> and has a 50 lines comment at the start 10:35:36 <Tron> yay, 19 special cases 10:37:12 <Tron> let me summaraise the implementation 10:37:13 <Tron> { 10:37:26 <Tron> /* magic, LOT'S of it */ 10:37:28 <Tron> } 10:38:39 <peter1138> complete with misplaced apostrophe? :) 10:39:02 <Tron> hm, yes, bad habit, bad Tron *SMACK* no cookie 10:39:14 <Tron> *whince* 10:39:29 <Tron> *wince* 10:39:30 <Tron> *sigh* 10:39:57 *** lws1984 [n=lws1984@ip68-9-157-1.ri.ri.cox.net] has joined #openttd 10:40:18 <Tron> /* compute log(ax) */ 10:40:18 <Tron> s2 = ss*ss; 10:40:18 <Tron> r = s2*s2*(L1+s2*(L2+s2*(L3+s2*(L4+s2*(L5+s2*L6))))); 10:40:18 <Tron> r += s_l*(s_h+ss); 10:40:18 <Tron> s2 = s_h*s_h; 10:40:34 <Tron> nobody ever tell me again ottd code is hard to understand 10:41:14 <Noldo> is it based on a series representation? 10:41:37 <Tron> that's just 5 lines of the 240 10:41:44 <Noldo> oh 10:41:46 <Tron> there's way more and diffrent kinds of magic 10:41:47 <Eddi|zuHause> that looks like Horner Scheme 10:42:26 <Tron> yes, looks like a poly evaluation 10:43:51 <RichK67_wrk> Tron: once i am storing the map in a temp_map, max_perlin_height will become local to wherever is doing the scaling 10:44:03 *** BJH [n=chatzill@e176118202.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #openttd 10:46:39 <Tron> RichK67_wrk: what's the resoultion of your perlin noise implementation? 10:48:40 <RichK67_wrk> not sure if it can do non-int values of X&Y... not checked. the max height range is about -250 to +580 i think, but that is just from watching values pass by 10:49:08 <RichK67_wrk> and of course, can be scaled anyway 10:49:11 <Tron> oh, yeah, right, it's floating point 10:49:29 <Tron> so 53 bit mantissa 10:49:34 <Tron> and exponent... 10:49:49 <RichK67_wrk> double perlin_coast_noise_2D 10:49:56 <Tron> 830 is about 10 orders of magnitude 10:50:07 <RichK67_wrk> and double perlin_noise_2D 10:50:35 <Tron> so about 4 bit 10:50:42 <Tron> 57 resolution is _much_ 10:50:49 <Tron> you don't want a histogram of _that_ 10:50:58 <Tron> s/57/57 bits/ 10:51:45 <Tron> maybe 16 bits, more is excessive 10:52:22 <RichK67_wrk> sorry - ive missed what this is for... 10:53:12 <Tron> double numbers have 53 bits mantissa 10:53:30 <Tron> and -250 till +580 is 830 10:53:40 <Tron> that's about 10 orders of magnitude 10:54:04 <Tron> to cover this you need about 4 bits 10:54:23 <RichK67_wrk> it is perlin_noise_2D * amplitude that is range of 830 10:54:36 <Tron> so a histogram would have about 2**57 different values 10:54:57 <RichK67_wrk> hmm... a bit more than needed ;) 10:55:26 *** lws1984 [n=lws1984@ip68-9-157-1.ri.ri.cox.net] has quit ["Lost terminal"] 10:55:38 <Tron> yeah, 144 trillion (british trillions, not american!) different values is a bit over the top 10:57:03 *** lws1984 [n=lws1984@ip68-9-157-1.ri.ri.cox.net] has joined #openttd 10:57:13 <RichK67_wrk> ill keep the temp_map as an int then ;) 10:57:47 *** lws1984 [n=lws1984@ip68-9-157-1.ri.ri.cox.net] has quit [Client Quit] 10:57:55 <Tron> i don't recommend more than 16bit resolution 10:58:50 <RichK67_wrk> or are you thinking of truncating the accuracy of the perlin noise, so that it is only calculated to 16 bits, saving processor time on not calculating the other 41.... 10:59:54 <Tron> tell your FPU to not calculate 41 bits (; 11:00:13 <RichK67_wrk> ok.. how? 11:00:19 *** lws1984 [n=lws1984@ip68-9-157-1.ri.ri.cox.net] has joined #openttd 11:00:28 <Tron> you don't *g* 11:00:55 <RichK67_wrk> ok... then i wont! ;) 11:01:22 <Tron> scale the stuff (value - min) * 65535 / (max - min) 11:02:00 <RichK67_wrk> it wont save anything; its already calculated the full 57, may as well pass them 11:02:20 <Tron> but you don't want to calculate a histogram with 144 trillion entries 11:02:39 <Tron> except if you want to /slightly/ increase the memory requirements of ottd 11:03:26 <Eddi|zuHause> that would not be a wise thing to do anyway... since it holds not more information... 11:03:39 <Eddi|zuHause> just a characteristic function of the output ;) 11:03:41 <RichK67_wrk> ah... you have a different idea of what to do with the temp_map; all i need to know from the "histogram" is average height above sea-level, and max-height... a simple traverse of the map with a tally for each will work 11:03:46 <Eddi|zuHause> (values 0 or 1= 11:04:07 <peter1138> is 8 bit resolution not plenty, considering we only have 16 height s... 11:05:19 <RichK67_wrk> given average height, i can decide if lowering the sea-level will reveal enough land 11:05:20 <Tron> RichK67_wrk: you want to add up the values from you histogram from the bottom up till you have enough "area" for your water 11:05:31 <Tron> the average says _nothing_ 11:05:45 <RichK67_wrk> ok, i see where you are getting at 11:05:51 <RichK67_wrk> where/what 11:06:06 <Tron> water coverage is more like median (except not for 50/50, but water/(100-water)) 11:08:59 <Eddi|zuHause> but i think 16 bit resolution is a bit much... 11:09:05 <RichK67_wrk> so; pass1: put all heights into tally bins (eg. 221 height 1, 166 height 2, etc...) .. pass2: if i want 25% water, find the bin in the histogram for the 1/4 * MapSize() entry 11:09:08 <Eddi|zuHause> you might as well do a bucket sort on the map 11:09:13 <Eddi|zuHause> which is max 22 bit 11:09:39 <Tron> a histogram _is_ a bucket sort 11:09:58 <RichK67_wrk> just checking we mean the same things 11:10:04 *** lws1984 [n=lws1984@ip68-9-157-1.ri.ri.cox.net] has quit ["Bleh."] 11:10:06 <Eddi|zuHause> yes... 11:10:33 <Eddi|zuHause> but with larger buckets 11:10:50 <Tron> ? 11:11:14 <Eddi|zuHause> nvm 11:11:18 <Tron> a bucket is whatever you define it to be 11:11:56 <RichK67_wrk> its less than that; we only need consider the 16 heights... since when we scale the temp_map down, all values will reduce to one of the 16 values 11:12:17 <Tron> you want to calculate with more precision beforehand 11:12:18 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, and i think 16 bit buckets are too many/too small 11:12:22 <Tron> otherweise you get artifacts 11:12:32 <RichK67_wrk> artifacts are smoothed later 11:12:35 <Trenskow> my filter patch is done 11:12:35 <Tron> well, use 8 bits 11:12:38 <Trenskow> here it is: http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=1504691&group_id=103924&atid=636367 11:12:47 <Tron> should just be one typedef and a few constants to change 11:13:07 <Trenskow> is able to filter servers in the server list 11:13:10 <Trenskow> from these conditions: 11:13:16 <Tron> RichK67_wrk: no, other kinds of artifacts 11:13:17 <Trenskow> password protected 11:13:19 <Trenskow> not full 11:13:26 <Trenskow> (sorry for spamming) 11:13:41 <Trenskow> people playing, game age and server version 11:13:48 <Tron> for 16 height levels you just need 4 octaves, 11:13:59 <Tron> but won't give good results 11:14:26 <Tron> render the noise field at higher resolution and scale it down to 4 bits 11:14:28 <Tron> that looks way better 11:15:58 <Tron> you can't get that information back 11:16:11 <Tron> especially not by smoothing, because that throws away even more information 11:18:11 *** iridium`nh [n=iridium@host-84-9-208-77.bulldogdsl.com] has joined #openttd 11:19:16 *** Angst [n=Angst@p54947BA2.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 11:19:25 *** egladil [n=egladil@h31n3fls301o1035.telia.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 11:26:18 <RichK67_wrk> sorry, i mean that if we choose a position N for the 25% bucket in the histogram, then if that is not precisely on the boundary between the scaled 16 levels, then more than that level may get included in the height band 11:27:24 <Tron> and the higher the resolution the smaller the error will be 11:27:57 <RichK67_wrk> so if bucket 55 is our sea level, but when scaled the nearest height levels run from 48 to 68, then instead of bucket 55 being the cut-off, it will go up to bucket 67 11:28:07 <Tron> buckets 0 till 55 11:28:18 <RichK67_wrk> o till 67 11:28:47 <Tron> apply the threshold first, then scale 11:28:53 <RichK67_wrk> unless we start the terrain height 1 at 56, and the scale above that 11:29:03 <Tron> of course you do that 11:29:12 <RichK67_wrk> sorry, im thick 11:29:21 <Tron> thick? 11:29:38 <Tron> ah, this word has more than one translation *g* 11:29:39 <RichK67_wrk> stoopid, slow, dunce... take your pick 11:30:05 *** ledow [n=ledow@jaimejwalker.plus.com] has joined #openttd 11:31:05 <RichK67_wrk> i like the way that this will give a known %age of water tho... solves the small map problem nicely, and i can get rid of the current butt-ugly water level control i use (which is rather hit & miss) 11:32:10 <Trenskow> it there gonna be water at different levels in the new map array ? 11:32:14 <peter1138> so hurry up and finish it. i want decent maps :) 11:32:20 <Trenskow> like legs could be above sea level 11:32:21 <RichK67_wrk> given i only need a height range of about 1024, is there any var that has that short a range, or should i just use an int? 11:32:26 <peter1138> Trenskow: there is. they're called canals 11:32:47 <peter1138> uint16 is the smallest 11:32:50 <Trenskow> peter1138, yea but i was thinking more about in land water 11:33:15 <Trenskow> but that could cause problems when connecting legs with ocean 11:33:15 <Tron> peter1138: and they're and ugly hack implementation-wise 11:33:36 <RichK67_wrk> you could just have it that water at height > 0 doesnt flow 11:33:57 <Trenskow> unless oc, the water levels then fell or raised so they were equal 11:34:32 <Trenskow> but then again you could be flooding industries and towns 11:34:32 <Trenskow> :) 11:34:35 <peter1138> Tron: well yes 11:34:56 *** iridium` [n=iridium@host-84-9-208-77.bulldogdsl.com] has joined #openttd 11:36:00 *** iridium`nh [n=iridium@host-84-9-208-77.bulldogdsl.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 11:36:00 *** iridium` is now known as iridium`nh 11:38:11 <CIA-3> peter1138 * r5240 /trunk/train_cmd.c: - NewGRF: when there is more than one engine in a consist, base livery overrides and powered wagon weight/power on the last engine before the wagon. 11:38:29 <RichK67_wrk> bbl - got to go out for lunch 11:38:39 *** RichK67_wrk is now known as RichK67_away 11:40:31 * peter1138 remembers he's working 11:44:02 *** Zr40 [n=Zirconiu@zr40.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 11:47:15 *** egladil [n=egladil@h31n3fls301o1035.telia.com] has joined #openttd 11:49:29 *** Bjarni [n=Bjarni@0x50a41639.virnxx14.adsl-dhcp.tele.dk] has joined #openttd 11:49:32 *** mode/#openttd [+o Bjarni] by ChanServ 11:50:09 <Bjarni> peter1138: your last commit, I had something like that in one of my patches once. I can't remember why it didn't get committed though 11:50:24 <Bjarni> something about somebody being against it or something 11:50:56 *** Zr40 [n=Zirconiu@zr40.xs4all.nl] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 11:51:22 <Bjarni> not surprisingly, I'm not against it ;) 11:57:56 *** glx [i=glx@bny93-6-82-245-156-124.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #openttd 12:01:18 *** Maedhros [n=jc@gentoo/developer/Maedhros] has quit ["leaving"] 12:02:05 <Trenskow> Bjarni, my network filtering patch is done 12:02:05 <peter1138> yeah 12:02:08 <peter1138> i wrote it a while ago 12:02:12 <peter1138> but ttdpatch didn't do it then 12:02:14 <peter1138> it does now o_O 12:02:19 <Trenskow> can't remember if it was you i was discussing it with 12:02:20 <Trenskow> :D 12:02:54 * Trenskow is quite proud :D 12:02:57 <Trenskow> my first openttd patch :D 12:03:17 <Trenskow> actually my second, but the first is included in the second :) 12:06:35 <Trenskow> i would like to implement ping time 12:06:42 <Trenskow> so you could filter from that 12:07:00 <Trenskow> shouldn't be that hard 12:11:10 *** ThePizzaKing [n=thepizza@c211-28-164-217.eburwd2.vic.optusnet.com.au] has quit ["And he disappears, like a fox, in the night."] 12:19:01 <Bjarni> <Trenskow> can't remember if it was you i was discussing it with <-- well, I said something to you about pulldown menus, but actually I had no idea what you were coding 12:19:23 <Trenskow> Bjarni, hehe ok... that was it :D 12:20:00 <Bjarni> <peter1138> but ttdpatch didn't do it then <-- actually I think that is the reason I didn't commit my patch. Somebody started talking about it and asked why we should do it when the grf sets for the patch didn't do it 12:20:01 <Bjarni> or something like that 12:20:29 <Bjarni> Trenskow: well, what is that filter anyway? 12:20:38 <Bjarni> filtering bad guys away from your server? 12:20:49 <Trenskow> it filters the server list 12:20:58 <Bjarni> like? 12:20:59 <Trenskow> http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=1504691&group_id=103924&atid=636367 12:21:14 <Trenskow> password protected, not full, people plauing, age and version 12:21:24 <Trenskow> playing even 12:21:36 <Bjarni> nice 12:21:38 <Bjarni> Running same version as yourself 12:21:43 <Bjarni> now that's a really useful feature 12:21:43 <Trenskow> yes 12:21:52 <Bjarni> maybe it should be on by default 12:22:07 <Trenskow> yes. that's a good idea 12:22:08 <Bjarni> usually people don't care for games that they can't join anyway 12:22:47 <Trenskow> i'll be uploading a screenshot and a patch for 0.4.7 to the ottd forum in two secs 12:22:54 <Bjarni> and still if they think they lack games to join, they can switch on all servers to see what versions are being played (last release vs nightly) 12:22:55 <Trenskow> is just creating the patch 12:23:10 <Trenskow> yea 12:23:49 <Trenskow> i'll do that... make a new patch with version on by default 12:23:56 <Trenskow> the old patch is also kind of messy 12:24:06 <peter1138> hee 12:24:12 <Trenskow> updates lines in files with nothing, that I haven't edited 12:24:13 <peter1138> messy == old newstations patch 12:27:21 <Trenskow> later on i think i will be adding a timeout filter 12:27:41 <Trenskow> so servers that hasn't replied within a user defined time, is removed from the list 12:28:19 <Trenskow> then i just gonna locate the code where the server list is updated, when it receives the info 12:28:39 <Trenskow> else it will probably crash if the server responds after it is erased from the list 12:29:25 <Trenskow> is it alright to use the time_t struct, or is there somekind of OS independend problem with it? 12:29:30 <Trenskow> dunno if every OS has it 12:29:43 <Trenskow> (only do unix) 12:30:19 <Trenskow> well... sorry i ment just <time.h> 12:31:15 <peter1138> what do you need that for? 12:31:44 <Trenskow> so i can see the timespan between the server is asked for info, to it replies 12:32:13 <Trenskow> then i can make a filter that filters out the ones with timespan larger that x 12:32:44 <Bjarni> how about making it possible to sort the list by name, ping, map size and so on? 12:33:41 <Trenskow> and do filtering on it to 12:33:57 <Trenskow> could make filters for map size, terrain and language too 12:34:13 <Bjarni> a tip on doing that could be to look at the vehicle window where you can already sort it for number, engine type and so on 12:34:25 <Bjarni> yeah, language would be nice 12:34:57 <Bjarni> actually make it a bitmask for the language, so you can see say all English, American and German servers 12:35:08 <Trenskow> Bjarni, I think i would have to expand the network server window width, to make it have those values too 12:35:23 <Bjarni> and save those settings in openttd.cfg, so you always see all the servers where you understand the language 12:35:33 <Bjarni> hmm 12:35:45 <Trenskow> or just save the filter settings 12:35:46 <Bjarni> that could be a problem 12:35:55 <Bjarni> it should still be useable on 640x480 12:36:28 <Trenskow> the size is currently 550x250 12:36:35 <Bjarni> maybe you can make a tab with filter settings just like there are tabs in the patch settings 12:36:52 <Trenskow> instead of a window? 12:37:00 <Bjarni> no, in the window 12:37:20 <Bjarni> I mean for more advanced stuff you usually don't change, like show/hide for each language and so on 12:37:21 <Trenskow> 2 sec... i'll just give you a screenshot of how it works right now 12:37:33 <Trenskow> ahhh yes ok 12:37:33 <Trenskow> i see 12:39:04 <Trenskow> http://www.trenskow.com/data/filter.png 12:39:07 <Trenskow> a screenshot 12:39:32 *** Osai^2 [n=Osai@p54B370B9.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 12:39:33 <Bjarni> such a list of languages should be a real list, possibly with a scrollbar since we don't have a fixed number of languages 12:39:53 <Bjarni> nice screenshot 12:39:53 <Trenskow> and checkboxes 12:40:01 *** scia [n=scia@AveloN.xs4all.nl] has joined #OpenTTD 12:41:03 <Bjarni> yeah, but we might have a problem in using dynamically allocated checkboxes, so it should be a list with an on and an off button next to it and a marker next to each language, that's on 12:41:05 <Bjarni> or something like that 12:41:21 <Trenskow> so you mean creating a tab view in the filters window, so more advanced settings are hiddin by default 12:41:23 <Bjarni> and "show all" and "show none" for quicker setup 12:41:25 <Trenskow> Bjarni, yes i see 12:41:54 <Trenskow> could create three tabs: common/languages/advanced 12:42:06 <Bjarni> I don't know how we should manage to make a piece of code, that would not need updating when we add new languages, if they got a checkbox each 12:42:16 *** Osai^2 is now known as Osai 12:42:17 <Bjarni> at least not with the current window drawing engine 12:42:29 <Trenskow> Bjarni, i see your point 12:42:30 <Bjarni> it would be a bit much to rewrite it just for this ;) 12:42:53 <Trenskow> in the code, is there an array that holds the languages installed ? 12:43:01 <Bjarni> hmm 12:43:02 <Trenskow> or do i have to look in the directory 12:43:09 <Bjarni> I don't know 12:43:21 <Bjarni> check how the settings figure out what to write in the pulldown menu 12:43:32 <Trenskow> just thought of it too 12:43:53 <peter1138> game is no more than five years ... five years what? 12:43:55 <peter1138> five years left? 12:44:06 <Trenskow> sorry five years old 12:44:13 <Trenskow> that what it should say 12:44:15 <Trenskow> ill fix that 12:44:16 *** RichK67_away is now known as RichK67_wrk 12:44:51 <Trenskow> i often look for games that have just started when i want to play 12:45:09 <Trenskow> the "less" drop down has less/more 12:45:18 <Trenskow> so you can also filter by games older than x years 12:45:35 <Trenskow> and the years drop down has goes from 5-50 with 5 intervals 12:47:14 <Trenskow> peter1138, the server dont give away it's enddate value, so i can't create filters based on time left 12:49:10 <guru3> what country is .ie? 12:49:32 <RichK67_wrk> ireland (eire) 12:49:52 <guru3> thanks 12:50:09 <Bjarni> try the command /country ie 12:50:13 <Bjarni> it replies 12:50:13 <Bjarni> ie = Ireland 12:50:20 <guru3> i don't believe i've got that one 12:50:31 <Bjarni> Xchat already thought of tracking down unknown domain names 12:51:11 <guru3> i'm @ work and i've got essentially nothing todo but watch my torrents at home download :( 12:51:25 *** sw4y [n=sw4y@snat2.arachne.czfree.net] has joined #openttd 12:51:36 <Noldo> guru3: what's so sad about that? 12:51:44 <guru3> it's boring as hell 12:51:52 *** KritiK [i=Maxim@ppp85-140-142-128.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #openttd 12:52:01 <Bjarni> Trenskow: I just realised a problem in your GUI 12:52:09 <Trenskow> yea? 12:52:10 <Bjarni> Game is no more than 5 years 12:52:13 <guru3> especially when the torrent is like 12GB 12:52:16 <guru3> and the speekd is 4KB/s 12:52:18 <Bjarni> what if it gets translated 12:52:26 <Bjarni> then the strings will get different lengths 12:52:27 <Trenskow> Bjarni, yea your right 12:52:39 <Trenskow> and the word arrangement could be different 12:52:47 <guru3> change it to 12:52:59 <guru3> Max Game Age: X Years 12:53:13 <Bjarni> yeah 12:53:14 <Noldo> Age? 12:53:34 <Bjarni> then it starts with one pulldown menu and ends with one 12:53:47 <Trenskow> so... 12:53:54 <Bjarni> hmm 12:53:58 <Bjarni> maybe not ideal 12:54:01 <Trenskow> no 12:54:05 <Trenskow> just one pulldown 12:54:12 <Trenskow> years 12:54:14 <Trenskow> no less/more 12:54:28 <Trenskow> 5 years old 12:54:28 <Bjarni> yeah, why would anybody even search for old games? 12:54:38 <Trenskow> Bjarni, yes you're right 12:54:42 <guru3> yeah 12:55:05 <guru3> old games tend to be boring in my experience 12:55:15 <Trenskow> right now you need to click the "find servers" button after applying the filters 12:55:18 <Bjarni> "is not full" should also be on by default 12:55:19 <Trenskow> does that make sense? 12:55:27 <Bjarni> no 12:55:43 <guru3> filters should have an enabled checkbox 12:55:44 <Trenskow> that's because the filtering is done as the servers reply 12:55:46 <Bjarni> it should run the drawing thing even without contacting the central server 12:55:47 <guru3> and so should like be saved 12:56:01 <Bjarni> you just filter the local cache, not the incoming stuff 12:56:06 <Bjarni> at least if you made it in a good way 12:56:09 <Trenskow> guru3, you mean like an overall enabled button? 12:56:16 <guru3> no for each one 12:56:23 <guru3> and then it remembers which ones were active 12:56:29 <Bjarni> a bad way is to not cache anything, and kick out the stuff you don't display, so you don't even have it locally anymore 12:56:38 <RichK67_wrk> Tron ping 12:56:41 <Trenskow> guru3, yea we discussed it... having it saving it to openttd.cfg 12:56:52 <Trenskow> Bjarni, your right 12:56:58 <guru3> the stuff for openttd.cfg is annoying as hell tho eh? 12:57:04 <Bjarni> a "global" on/off button would be nice 12:57:26 <Tron> hm? 12:57:27 <guru3> in the main window then 12:57:35 <Bjarni> so you can quickly see all servers while the game still remembers your settings if you enable the filter again 12:57:36 <guru3> so you don't have to toggle everything yeah 12:57:43 <Trenskow> just create a function called IsFiltered or something, that the drawing code uses to see if it should skip it 12:57:54 *** sw4y [n=sw4y@snat2.arachne.czfree.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 12:58:30 <RichK67_wrk> Tron: do you think I should go all-out and totally replace old map gen, or should i keep it for those (weirdos) nice people who want to play old-style maps 12:58:36 <Trenskow> that ill do instead 12:59:13 <Tron> i think there should be multiple map generators, so why not keep the old one? 12:59:36 <Tron> there are other nice methods to generate terrain, maybe somebody wants to implement one 12:59:50 <guru3> there's the one in the xscreensaver package :D 13:00:46 <RichK67_wrk> ok - there was a suggestion to have the generator choice as a button on the new game dialog; i would prefer not 13:00:46 <Bjarni> <RichK67_wrk> Tron: do you think I should go all-out and totally replace old map gen, or should i keep it for those (weirdos) nice people who want to play old-style maps <-- something as complex as a map generator should not be replaced as two different ones never makes the same result. If possible, people should be given the option when making maps 13:01:06 <Bjarni> and maybe we will some day have 4-5 different generators 13:01:13 <guru3> i think it should be a patch option 13:01:38 * ledow votes for a patch option too 13:02:02 <RichK67_wrk> well, chosen in the Advanced Options/Terrain panel (I *hate* it being called Configure Patches!!) 13:02:30 <guru3> doesn't it say 'patches' there? 13:02:50 <RichK67_wrk> TGP already has a button in that panel, so thats ok. I just need to disable some options if you are using old gen 13:03:08 <Trenskow> Bjarni, shouldn't it also per default filter out the ones that doesn't respond? 13:03:25 * guru3 votes yes 13:03:32 <RichK67_wrk> yes, it is currently called "Configure Patches" ... but IMO that is daft; it is the Advanced Options panel (its only cos of TTDP that it is called Config Patches) 13:03:49 <guru3> a tribute to its legacy perhaps 13:04:12 <Tron> which legacy? 13:04:39 <guru3> not really sure 13:04:44 <guru3> just making stuff up to pass the time 13:05:10 <Trenskow> RichK67_wrk, agree.. i think the patches gui looks messy 13:05:11 <Prof_Frink> RichK67_wrk: It shouldn't even be 'Adavnced Options', there should be One Dialogue To Rule Them All 13:05:28 <guru3> hahaha 13:06:23 <Prof_Frink> Add the current Options and Diff Settings as tabs to the Patches dialogue and rename it to 'Options' 13:06:33 <RichK67_wrk> im happy, as long as i dont have to modify my gui to accomodate other terrain generators; its getting quite a big section as is (with all the drop downs etc.) 13:09:38 *** Hallo [n=me@c094.fem.tu-ilmenau.de] has joined #openttd 13:12:12 *** egladil_ibook [n=egladil@h31n3fls301o1035.telia.com] has joined #openttd 13:13:11 *** Sacro [n=Sacro@adsl-83-100-154-190.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd 13:14:15 <Sacro> afternoon all 13:14:25 <[Shaman]> lo 13:16:38 <RichK67_wrk> bbl 13:23:29 *** egladil [n=egladil@h31n3fls301o1035.telia.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 13:24:05 *** BJH_ [n=chatzill@e176123067.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #openttd 13:28:33 <[Shaman]> what was the linux command again to find through files? :o 13:28:38 <guru3> locate 13:28:41 <guru3> or find 13:28:43 <guru3> depending 13:28:51 <[Shaman]> inside files 13:28:54 <[Shaman]> not finding files themselves 13:28:58 <[Shaman]> got that part figgured out ^^ 13:29:23 <Tron> grep 13:29:42 <[Shaman]> ta 13:29:57 <Tron> j 13:30:06 <Tron> uh, wrong window 13:30:11 <guru3> or fgrep 13:30:41 <vondel> grep -r * -e 'needle' 13:31:44 <Tron> i've never seen anybody using -e 13:32:12 <Prof_Frink> grep -e == egrep and uses extended regex 13:32:23 <Prof_Frink> 'tis useful 13:32:28 <vondel> don't confuse -e and -E 13:32:34 <Tron> Prof_Frink: no 13:32:46 <Tron> Prof_Frink: -e is not egrep 13:32:52 <vondel> -e is usefull to indicate it's not a file 13:32:56 <Prof_Frink> oh, OK, I'm wrong 13:33:25 <[Shaman]> -e, --regexp=PATTERN use PATTERN as a regular expressio 13:33:33 <Tron> vondel: maybe not an option, for stating it's not a file this is rather silly 13:34:02 <[Shaman]> -E, --extended-regexp PATTERN is an extended regular expression 13:34:06 <[Shaman]> they both be regexp 13:34:10 <[Shaman]> one extended, other not. 13:34:22 * Prof_Frink tends to do `<file grep pattern` 13:34:24 <Tron> still i've never seen -e in use 13:35:06 <Tron> uh... -E has no parameter 13:35:13 <vondel> i use it almost always, had some problems in the past when i didn't use it 13:35:31 <vondel> grep confusing my file and expression-arguments 13:35:45 <vondel> i keep forgetting the correct order 13:35:58 <Tron> pattern first, because there can only be one 13:36:04 <Tron> files can be multiple 13:36:17 <vondel> thought processes in my mind are sometimes different 13:36:25 <vondel> and adding a single e isn't much trouble 13:36:45 <Tron> it could be of use if the pattern starts with - 13:36:51 <Tron> but still then i'd use -- 13:37:01 *** Zr40 [n=Zirconiu@zr40.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 13:37:01 <Tron> because that's the standard way of telling "options end here" 13:37:22 <vondel> or use '' to give an explicit string 13:38:55 <Tron> that doesn't work 13:39:01 *** shintah [i=bebble@bebble.olf.sgsnet.se] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 13:39:20 <Tron> %grep '-j' _ 13:39:20 <Tron> grep: invalid option -- j 13:39:26 <Tron> '' gets eaten by the shell 13:40:07 <vondel> pity 13:40:15 <Tron> grep -- -j _ 13:40:16 <Tron> works 13:40:39 *** BJH [n=chatzill@e176118202.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 13:40:57 <vondel> grep test -e '-j' <-- does work for me 13:41:24 <vondel> another example of why -e works 13:41:26 <Tron> of course it does 13:41:33 <Tron> it would still work without the '' 13:41:45 <Tron> no, it isn't, the '' do nothing there 13:42:55 <vondel> yes 13:44:31 *** tokai|noir [n=tokai@p54B82418.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 13:44:44 *** tokai [n=tokai@p54B82418.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 13:52:51 *** Osai [n=Osai@p54B370B9.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [] 13:57:19 *** SchAmane [n=schamane@p5498FFAA.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["Ciao"] 14:02:03 *** Belugas_Gone is now known as Belugas 14:03:42 *** SchAmane [n=schamane@p5498FFAA.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 14:06:53 *** iridium`nh [n=iridium@host-84-9-208-77.bulldogdsl.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 14:12:53 *** tokai [n=tokai@p54B82418.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Connection timed out] 14:14:30 *** Tron [n=tron@p54A3E7A9.dip.t-dialin.net] has left #openttd ["Client exiting"] 14:16:24 *** shintah [i=bebble@bebble.olf.sgsnet.se] has joined #openttd 14:16:35 *** shintah [i=bebble@bebble.olf.sgsnet.se] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 14:16:36 *** tokai [n=tokai@p54B82418.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 14:16:56 *** shintah [i=bebble@bebble.olf.sgsnet.se] has joined #openttd 14:24:07 *** kujeger_work [n=kujeger@pc-99-88.p52.hio.no] has quit ["Konversation terminated!"] 14:30:11 *** paulstuffins [n=paulstuf@host-84-9-15-207.bulldogdsl.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 14:30:57 *** moebius_ [n=moebius@213.60.238.240] has joined #openttd 14:32:02 *** paulstuffins [n=paulstuf@host-84-9-15-207.bulldogdsl.com] has joined #openttd 14:36:34 <Bjarni> <Trenskow> Bjarni, shouldn't it also per default filter out the ones that doesn't respond? <-- well, why would you want to see servers, that fails to respond? 14:36:40 <Bjarni> do you want to try to connect anyway? 14:36:42 <Bjarni> ;) 14:37:22 <Bjarni> sorry for the long reply time (BAD ping time). I'm doing serious work 14:40:00 <Sacro> Bjarni: serious? 14:41:12 *** jonty-comp [n=Jonty@88-107-59-241.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has joined #openttd 14:41:18 <TL|Away> Sacro: it supprised me too 14:41:27 <bulio> on this page 14:41:29 <Sacro> TL|Away: hehe 14:41:32 <bulio> http://i-want-a-website.com/about-tt/ttfaq16.html#16-1 14:41:39 <bulio> the semi-faq strategy guide, what map does it use? 14:41:44 *** christooss [n=matic@clj20-83.dial-up.arnes.si] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 14:41:45 <bulio> I'd like to use it, but with the smaller starting cities and no rails or roads built 14:41:50 <bulio> good for practice 14:42:28 <Sacro> bulio: just generate a basic map 14:43:41 *** Maedhros [n=jc@gentoo/developer/Maedhros] has joined #openttd 14:44:12 <Bjarni> <TL|Away> Sacro: it supprised me too <--- o_O 14:44:27 <Bjarni> I'm actually doing real life stuff 14:44:40 <Sacro> <Bjarni> sorry for the long reply time (BAD ping time). I'm doing serious work <-- you...serious...never :P 14:44:48 <Sacro> real life...? i remember that 14:44:50 <TL|Away> Bjarni: you? Real life? 14:44:51 <TL|Away> ;) 14:45:03 <Bjarni> !slap Sacro 14:45:04 <jmp_ghli> >Bjarni> Bjarni turns Sacro into Michael Jackson. Nice new look, eh? 14:45:08 <bulio> Sacro: tried it 14:45:14 * Sacro slaps Bjarni around with a small 50lb Unix Manual 14:45:18 <bulio> but there's too many trees and bumps 14:45:32 <Sacro> bulio: change the difficulty options 14:45:38 *** Tobin [n=Tobin@c211-28-197-129.eburwd7.vic.optusnet.com.au] has joined #openttd 14:46:10 <bulio> I did 14:46:15 <bulio> very flat, very little water 14:46:29 <Bjarni> <jmp_ghli> >Bjarni> Bjarni turns Sacro into Michael Jackson. Nice new look, eh? <-- I didn't know that you were into kids. Sacro keep getting weirder and weirder o_O 14:47:02 <Sacro> Bjarni: ahh yeah, ive got loads of kids... 14:47:22 <Bjarni> I meant real kids, not sperm 14:47:47 <Sacro> hmm, well there are rumours about that anywya 14:48:03 <bulio> is there a site I can download maps from? 14:48:13 <Bjarni> yes 14:48:22 <Bjarni> but I forgot the URL :P 14:48:24 *** moebius_ [n=moebius@213.60.238.240] has quit ["Leaving"] 14:48:35 <TL|Away> www.i.want.tt.maps.com 14:49:13 <Bjarni> server not found 14:49:17 <Sacro> ditto 14:49:17 <TL|Away> sad 14:49:22 <Bjarni> somehow I think I would remember that URL ;) 14:49:25 <TL|Away> it works here :p 14:49:52 <Bjarni> btw, I found a pretty good homepage, but it's only up once in a while 14:49:54 <Bjarni> you should try it 14:50:00 <Bjarni> http://127.0.0.1 14:50:53 <scia> :o I've yet to install apache :p 14:50:54 <XeryusTC> Bjarni: it's always up here :P 14:52:03 <Bjarni> XeryusTC: then I better call my ISP and ask him why I can't connect all the time 14:52:05 <Bjarni> :P 14:52:22 <Bjarni> btw usually it's down here 14:52:27 <XeryusTC> it could help :) 14:53:13 *** angerman [n=angerman@e181101222.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #openttd 14:53:15 *** scia [n=scia@AveloN.xs4all.nl] has quit ["Lost terminal"] 14:53:51 <Bjarni> for the record, I'm not one of those guys, who detect hacker attacks from 127.0.0.1 and tries to hack that IP as payback 14:54:06 <Bjarni> those people end up on bash.org 14:54:30 <XeryusTC> Bjarni: you ended up on bash.org too... 14:54:32 <Bjarni> oh shit, some guy from 127.0.0.1 is trying to hack me. Everybody, try to crash him right away 14:55:00 <Bjarni> XeryusTC: I know, but only at times when I don't look stupid ;) 14:55:12 <XeryusTC> true 14:55:24 <Vornicus> Heh. 14:55:33 *** CmdKewin [n=cmdkewin@212.243.72.197] has joined #openTTD 14:55:40 <XeryusTC> your previous line could make the difference though ;) 14:56:17 <bulio> hhm, I can't find any flat maps 14:56:18 *** Osai [n=Osai@p54B370B9.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 14:56:27 <Vornicus> On my other network (Nightstar) we occasionally would get someone who got pissed off and would say he was going to hack one of the staff. And then he'd post the hostname, and the IP address. Admin.Nightstar.Net, and 127.0.0.1 14:56:32 <Bjarni> nobody quitted quickly after I wrote it 14:56:34 <Bjarni> too bad 14:56:44 <Bjarni> that spoiled a new bash.org commit 14:57:32 <Bjarni> Vornicus: how is the freetype thing going. Did you give up? 14:58:04 *** christooss [n=matic@clj20-83.dial-up.arnes.si] has joined #openttd 14:58:16 <Vornicus> I did, yes. I can't understand the documentation. 14:58:49 <XeryusTC> Vornicus: you couldn't get freetype to compile 14:58:50 <XeryusTC> ? 14:59:09 <Bjarni> he could not get it to compile a static lib 14:59:54 <Bjarni> image how it will go when I go ahead and tries to crosscompile it to ensure compatibility with Vornicus (and everybody else using that OS) 14:59:56 *** CmdKewin [n=cmdkewin@212.243.72.197] has quit [Client Quit] 15:00:23 <XeryusTC> Vornicus: you're using win32? 15:00:30 <Bjarni> haha 15:00:31 <Vornicus> macosx 10.3.9 15:00:44 <Bjarni> why should I care for windows? 15:00:54 <XeryusTC> dunno 15:01:11 <Bjarni> I don't and if that is a problem, then somebody else will make a patch to fix whatever issue we got 15:01:14 <XeryusTC> i have a freetype win32 static lib around here *somewhere* 15:01:42 <peter1138> hmm 15:02:00 <Bjarni> but I have to deal with the OSX stuff myself as there are very few people, who knows both the OSX source code and how to make universal binaries in OSX 15:02:13 <Bjarni> (am I the only one?) 15:02:23 <peter1138> so does the utf8 stuff not build on osx ? 15:02:28 *** christooss [n=matic@clj20-83.dial-up.arnes.si] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 15:02:28 <peter1138> i know it does on windows 15:02:31 <peter1138> err 15:02:34 <peter1138> s/on/for/ 15:02:54 *** bulio [n=bulio@unaffiliated/bulio] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 15:02:56 <Bjarni> it works 15:03:00 <Bjarni> the issue is more complex 15:03:18 <Bjarni> it's crosscompiling to get a static lib, that works on both PPC and Intel OSX 15:03:22 * XeryusTC tries to download the utf8 branch 15:03:28 <peter1138> hmm 15:03:34 <peter1138> do you need a static lib? 15:03:35 <Bjarni> when I compile to target my own hardware, it works out of the box 15:03:45 *** bulio [n=bulio@unaffiliated/bulio] has joined #openttd 15:03:59 <Bjarni> <peter1138> do you need a static lib? <-- that's easier than telling people to install libs themselves 15:05:23 <peter1138> are people too stupid to install libs? 15:06:11 * XeryusTC wonders what the hard part about typing "make install" is ;) 15:06:12 <Bjarni> it's more like Apple didn't make it possible by default to install libs in unix style 15:06:35 <Bjarni> so people have to manually install a compiler, then fink (apt-get like app) and then some libs 15:06:42 <Bjarni> most people don't do that 15:06:55 <Sacro> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FizzBuzz :D 15:07:15 <Sacro> Bjarni: can you not write a shell script to do it? 15:08:00 <Vornicus> to install a compiler? 15:08:06 <peter1138> you need a compiler to install freetype libs? o_O 15:08:22 <Bjarni> I could do a lot of things, but so far the easiest solution have been to get static libs of everything that's needed 15:08:22 <Vornicus> peter: since they don't seem to have a binary floating around, yes. 15:08:26 <Bjarni> it have worked so far 15:08:38 <bulio> where can I download some newbie scenarios? :D 15:08:55 <peter1138> Bjarni: has 15:09:03 <Bjarni> bulio: what's wrong with the buildin map generator? 15:09:07 *** Tobin [n=Tobin@c211-28-197-129.eburwd7.vic.optusnet.com.au] has quit [] 15:09:49 <Bjarni> I don't see the big problem in making such a lib 15:10:16 <Bjarni> the only issue is that now I have to crosscompile it, which will likely take a little longer than it would take Vornicus to compile it to his own system 15:10:21 <Bjarni> you know, that configure stuff 15:10:25 *** christooss [n=matic@clj20-83.dial-up.arnes.si] has joined #openttd 15:10:35 <Bjarni> ./configure; make 15:10:48 <Bjarni> that should do it, but it left out the static lib 15:11:05 <Bjarni> now I need to configure for another system.... tricky, but doable 15:11:56 <Bjarni> peter1138: is iconv used by default in the utf8 branch? 15:12:01 <peter1138> no 15:12:56 *** TinoM|Mobil [n=tino@VPNPOOL01-0005.UNI-MUENSTER.DE] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 15:19:00 *** DaleStan [n=Dale@c-69-245-20-192.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has joined #openttd 15:20:19 *** dfox [n=dfox@213.220.254.86] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 15:20:47 *** DaleStan [n=Dale@c-69-245-20-192.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 15:20:53 *** DaleStan [n=Dale@c-69-245-20-192.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has joined #openttd 15:21:09 *** XeryusTC [n=irc@217.123.28.144] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 15:22:39 <Sacro> ./configure --static? 15:25:35 *** christooss [n=matic@clj20-83.dial-up.arnes.si] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 15:26:24 *** christooss [n=matic@clj20-83.dial-up.arnes.si] has joined #openttd 15:27:35 *** XeryusTC [n=irc@217.123.28.144] has joined #openttd 15:29:10 *** jonty_comp [n=Jonty@88-107-48-82.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has joined #openttd 15:30:36 *** jonty-comp [n=Jonty@88-107-59-241.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 15:30:45 *** jonty_comp is now known as jonty-comp 15:31:00 *** christooss [n=matic@clj20-83.dial-up.arnes.si] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 15:31:51 *** christooss [n=matic@clj20-83.dial-up.arnes.si] has joined #openttd 15:38:30 *** Dred_furst [i=nn@user-7931.lns2-c7.dsl.pol.co.uk] has joined #openttd 15:44:11 <Vornicus> sacro: nope 15:44:19 <Sacro> lol 16:13:32 *** DaleStan [n=Dale@c-69-245-20-192.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:18:09 *** Ihmemies [i=ihmemies@a81-197-103-246.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #openttd 16:22:03 *** zemei [n=zemei@dsl5400E96C.pool.t-online.hu] has joined #openttd 16:35:04 *** DJ_Mirage [n=martijn@biggetje.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 16:35:26 *** xahodo [n=xander@xahodo.demon.nl] has joined #openttd 16:36:46 *** Jenkz [n=nobody@80-192-44-21.cable.ubr05.dund.blueyonder.co.uk] has joined #openttd 16:38:22 *** Angst [n=Angst@p549455C6.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 16:38:47 *** |Jeroen| [n=jerre@dD5E03EB1.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd 16:39:29 *** Zerot_ [i=Zerot@g35026.upc-g.chello.nl] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 16:41:26 *** Born_Acorn [n=bornacor@AC8F1DAF.ipt.aol.com] has joined #openttd 16:41:59 *** sw4y [n=sw4y@snat2.arachne.czfree.net] has joined #openttd 16:42:17 *** Zerot [i=Zerot@g35026.upc-g.chello.nl] has joined #openttd 16:47:08 *** brygge_2 [n=joachim9@81.166.137.5] has joined #openttd 16:47:41 <brygge_2> orudge: the forums is down.... 16:47:57 <Prof_Frink> [17:26:14] <@orudge> If tt-forums is down, it'll be because I'm upgrading lighttpd 16:48:22 <brygge_2> ok 16:48:29 <TL|Away> brygge_2: it is not down 16:49:37 *** tokai|noir [n=tokai@p54B82567.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 16:58:38 *** tokai|ni [n=tokai@p54B82567.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 17:02:44 *** RichK67_wrk [n=RichK67@talk-210-66.talkadsl.com] has quit [] 17:04:06 <bulio> I created a scenario 17:04:15 <bulio> but it won't let me make any roads or rails in game 17:04:41 <bulio> how come? 17:05:00 <anboni> does your game happen to be paused? 17:09:30 *** tokai [n=tokai@p54B82418.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Connection timed out] 17:09:30 *** tokai|3 [n=tokai@p54B82418.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Connection timed out] 17:10:13 *** Nubian [n=nubian@193.93.73.116] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 17:11:39 <bulio> that explains it 17:11:40 <bulio> thanks 17:11:50 <bulio> also, do industries build themselves over time? 17:12:05 *** brygge_2 [n=joachim9@81.166.137.5] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:12:06 <anboni> what do you mean? 17:12:45 <Sacro> anboni: press f1 17:12:48 *** TinoM [n=Tino@i5387E56C.versanet.de] has joined #openttd 17:18:51 <bulio> where can I download some scenarios? 17:19:00 <bulio> I'm looking for one with a few cities and a very flat map 17:19:08 <bulio> so I can learn how to build decent railways 17:20:27 <hylje> id have the cities slightly elevated 17:21:09 <bulio> why? 17:21:41 *** jonty-comp [n=Jonty@88-107-48-82.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:23:51 <hylje> well, cities are cooler when done on elevated ground, and it gives slightly more possibilities overall 17:24:55 <bulio> true 17:25:00 <bulio> theres this tutorial map I have 17:25:07 <bulio> I want to know what map it was using 17:25:31 <bulio> it'd be perfect if the cities were smaller, and it wasn't pre-built 17:26:11 <bulio> http://i-want-a-website.com/about-tt/ttfaq16.html 17:26:18 <bulio> on that page, the semi-faq save game 17:28:24 <bulio> any idea what map that is? 17:28:36 *** coppercore [n=copperco@dpc691917057.direcpc.com] has joined #openttd 17:28:49 *** Forexs [i=Forexs@x1-6-00-0f-b5-14-63-5f.k136.webspeed.dk] has joined #openttd 17:29:14 *** Jezral [n=projectj@nat.kollegienet.dk] has quit [") td@projectjj.com - http://projectjj.com/ ("] 17:29:52 *** jacke^ [n=mm@h175n4fls32o1104.telia.com] has joined #openttd 17:31:56 <Belugas> bulio I don't know about the maps you want to have from this page, but if you do a search on the forums, under "scenario", you will be floaded by some quite good ones. 17:34:50 *** Jezral [n=projectj@nat.kollegienet.dk] has joined #openttd 17:35:29 *** Mucht [n=Mucht@chello080109200215.3.sc-graz.chello.at] has joined #openttd 17:37:18 *** Osai [n=Osai@p54B370B9.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [] 17:37:37 <bulio> I'm looking for a flat map with some small cities and industries 17:37:40 <bulio> like no elevation 17:37:50 <bulio> and no water inland 17:37:58 <glx> make it yourself with scenario editor 17:38:02 <bulio> tried 17:38:11 <glx> it's really easy 17:38:35 <bulio> but when I go to select build in-game, it doesn't offer me anything 17:38:38 <bulio> no trains and such 17:39:01 <glx> what starting date did you set for the scenario 17:39:04 <glx> ? 17:39:07 <bulio> 1926 17:39:16 <bulio> that explains it then 17:39:20 <bulio> too early for trains? 17:39:44 <glx> too early for everything 17:39:49 <glx> try 1950 17:40:20 <bulio> alright 17:40:31 <bulio> I only placed two industries on my map 17:40:41 <bulio> will others be built randomly as the game goes on? 17:40:52 <glx> you can place more 17:42:28 <glx> only oilrigs, and maybe some other, will appear during the game, but a long time may spend before, so it's better to place them in the scenario 17:43:40 *** RichK67 [n=RichK67@194.164.100.143] has joined #openttd 17:43:52 <RichK67> hey ho folkies 17:44:01 <glx> hi RichK67 17:44:24 <glx> RichK67: wasn't too tired this morning? 17:44:41 <glx> because you were commiting lately last night 17:45:24 <RichK67> ahh - i was about to go to bed, and thought... "ill just get this patch in..." and then did another as well ;) 17:45:42 <RichK67> as my uni supervisor said "nothing like a deadline to focus the mind" 17:48:33 *** xahodo [n=xander@xahodo.demon.nl] has quit [] 17:50:06 <RichK67> i was a bit shocked to see Tron working on tgp.c in MiniIN when i got to work!! but its OK, led to a good discussion, and some useful/interesting ideas 17:50:49 <peter1138> hello 17:51:05 <RichK67> hi peter 17:51:12 <peter1138> have you done the histogram yet? :) 17:51:20 <peter1138> (and would that solve the small maps issue?) 17:51:27 <RichK67> ive been doing this thing called working ;) 17:51:46 <RichK67> but its top of tonights priority - because, yes, it will solve the small maps 17:53:54 <Belugas> hello RichK67 17:54:05 <RichK67> hi Belugas :) 17:54:25 <peter1138> working? hurr hurr 17:54:41 <RichK67> well, ok ... about 50% working ;) 17:55:01 <Belugas> RichK67 : about Tron, a wise old man told me once "Tron is not the enemy". 17:55:12 <Belugas> I always keep that in mind 17:55:30 <Belugas> working... what a dispecable word 17:55:35 <RichK67> it was just a surprise to see him at work "on my baby"... :) 17:55:50 <glx> RichK67: that means he like it 17:55:58 *** Sacro__ [n=Sacro@adsl-213-249-237-183.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd 17:56:00 *** jonty-comp [n=Jonty@88-107-53-6.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has joined #openttd 17:56:02 <Belugas> Imagine his, when he saw bridges commited :) 17:56:13 <RichK67> he's certainly made the comments look prettier ;) 17:56:22 <hylje> i want bridges 17:56:23 <hylje> ! 17:56:36 <RichK67> its just the "rework the concept" bit that will be entertaining ;) 17:57:07 <peter1138> hylje: we all do 17:57:22 *** Sacro [n=Sacro@adsl-83-100-154-190.karoo.KCOM.COM] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 17:57:35 *** Sacro__ is now known as Sacro 17:58:14 *** scia [n=scia@AveloN.xs4all.nl] has joined #OpenTTD 17:58:53 <Belugas> the same wise old man told me too "rewrites are beter" 17:59:06 <peter1138> hmm? 17:59:25 <Belugas> the "rework the concept" thing of RichK67 ;) 17:59:29 <hylje> the result is better with each rewrite 18:04:27 <peter1138> like newstations 18:05:01 *** Hendy [n=wolfox@203-217-34-90.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit ["Any technology, no matter how primitive, is magic to those who don't understand it"] 18:06:32 <Belugas> like newstations, yes :) Does it mean you've heard that wise old man too, peter1138 ? hehehehe 18:09:39 *** DJ_Mirage [n=martijn@biggetje.xs4all.nl] has quit ["Probably doing something else"] 18:10:30 *** DJ_Mirage [n=martijn@biggetje.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 18:12:47 *** Hendikins [n=wolfox@pdpc/supporter/student/Hendikins] has quit [Connection timed out] 18:13:43 *** Hendikins [n=wolfox@pdpc/supporter/student/Hendikins] has joined #openttd 18:14:24 *** Hendy [n=wolfox@CPE-60-227-113-138.nsw.bigpond.net.au] has joined #openttd 18:15:52 *** Mucht [n=Mucht@chello080109200215.3.sc-graz.chello.at] has quit ["I'll be back!"] 18:18:43 *** Mucht [n=Mucht@chello080109200215.3.sc-graz.chello.at] has joined #openttd 18:18:53 *** Neonox [n=Neonox@ip-80-226-158-56.vodafone-net.de] has joined #openttd 18:20:07 *** jonty-comp [n=Jonty@88-107-53-6.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has quit ["Au reviour!"] 18:25:26 *** TinoM| [n=Tino@i5387E56C.versanet.de] has joined #openttd 18:39:22 *** Tino|Home [n=Tino@i5387E56C.versanet.de] has joined #openttd 18:40:54 *** TinoM [n=Tino@i5387E56C.versanet.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:44:21 *** TTTT [n=Tino@i5387FB67.versanet.de] has joined #openttd 18:44:41 *** TTTT is now known as TinoM 18:45:58 *** Mucht [n=Mucht@chello080109200215.3.sc-graz.chello.at] has quit ["I'll be back!"] 18:48:00 *** christooss [n=matic@clj20-83.dial-up.arnes.si] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 18:49:06 *** christooss [n=matic@clj20-83.dial-up.arnes.si] has joined #openttd 18:50:26 *** Mucht [n=Mucht@chello080109200215.3.sc-graz.chello.at] has joined #openttd 18:51:05 *** christooss [n=matic@clj20-83.dial-up.arnes.si] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 18:51:41 *** christooss [n=matic@clj20-83.dial-up.arnes.si] has joined #openttd 18:53:02 *** tokai|noir [n=tokai@p54B82567.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 18:53:14 *** Mucht is now known as Mucht|zZz 18:53:20 *** tokai [n=tokai@p54B82567.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 18:55:37 *** zemei [n=zemei@dsl5400E96C.pool.t-online.hu] has quit ["Leaving."] 18:57:21 *** TinoM| [n=Tino@i5387E56C.versanet.de] has quit [Connection timed out] 18:58:25 *** Borgz [n=cipri@a47034.upc-a.chello.nl] has joined #openttd 18:58:57 *** Borgz is now known as Cipri 18:59:46 *** Tino|Home [n=Tino@i5387E56C.versanet.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:59:53 *** lws1984 [n=lws1984@ip68-9-157-1.ri.ri.cox.net] has joined #openttd 19:09:58 *** TinoM| [n=Tino@i5387FB67.versanet.de] has joined #openttd 19:15:38 *** TinoM [n=Tino@i5387FB67.versanet.de] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 19:15:39 *** TinoM| is now known as TinoM 19:23:32 *** Zimri [i=Zimri@cpc1-ely13-0-0-cust1001.cdif.cable.ntl.com] has joined #openttd 19:30:32 *** |Jeroen| [n=jerre@dD5E03EB1.access.telenet.be] has quit ["Leaving"] 19:33:53 *** |Jeroen| [n=jeroen@dD5E03EB1.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd 19:37:15 *** christooss [n=matic@clj20-83.dial-up.arnes.si] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 19:38:00 *** christooss [n=matic@clj20-83.dial-up.arnes.si] has joined #openttd 19:45:29 *** DJ_Mirage [n=martijn@biggetje.xs4all.nl] has quit ["Probably doing something else"] 19:47:41 *** christooss [n=matic@clj20-83.dial-up.arnes.si] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 19:48:14 *** christooss [n=matic@clj20-83.dial-up.arnes.si] has joined #openttd 19:49:06 *** Mucht|zZz [n=Mucht@chello080109200215.3.sc-graz.chello.at] has quit ["I'll be back!"] 19:52:07 *** christooss [n=matic@clj20-83.dial-up.arnes.si] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 19:52:36 *** christooss [n=matic@clj20-83.dial-up.arnes.si] has joined #openttd 19:56:16 <Trenskow> it looks like mostly europeans 19:56:47 * Prof_Frink is English! 19:58:16 *** lws1984 [n=lws1984@ip68-9-157-1.ri.ri.cox.net] has quit ["Lost terminal"] 19:59:35 *** scia [n=scia@AveloN.xs4all.nl] has quit ["Lost terminal"] 20:00:45 *** Nubian [n=nubian@193.93.73.116] has joined #openttd 20:06:12 *** Osai [n=Osai@p54B370B9.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 20:07:55 *** dp__ [n=dp@p54B2CC50.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 20:09:57 <anboni> is it normal for a coal unloader station (with newstations) to have one tile with a piece of track that's at a 90degree angle with the rest of the tracks? but only if the track length is < 5 tiles 20:10:15 *** Neonox [n=Neonox@ip-80-226-158-56.vodafone-net.de] has quit ["muss wech"] 20:12:18 *** angerman [n=angerman@e181101222.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [] 20:12:22 <peter1138> yes, it's normal. it is of course a bug. 20:12:23 <anboni> looks like it's a graphic glitch, the trains will go over it like it's straight 20:12:56 <anboni> bah, no need to get all snappy at me :) 20:13:19 <peter1138> i wasn't 20:13:24 <anboni> ok:) 20:13:40 <anboni> do i need to report it, or are you aware of the circumstances in which it happens? 20:13:53 <RichK67> woohoo ... new TGP (histogram version) ready to upload :) 20:14:37 <XeryusTC> anboni: i noticed the same problem 20:14:39 *** dfox [n=dfox@213.220.254.86] has joined #openttd 20:14:49 <XeryusTC> i think that it is a bug in the grf 20:15:45 <anboni> yeah, looks like it 20:16:23 <guru3> http://www.svenswmwette.com/ 20:21:33 <CIA-3> richk * r5241 /branch/MiniIN/tgp.c: (log message trimmed) 20:21:33 <CIA-3> [MiniIN]: [TGP]: Major modification to the way the algorithm handles water level and terrain height. 20:21:33 <CIA-3> Basic terrain is now stored in a temporary map, and a histogram of the tile 20:21:33 <CIA-3> heights is stored. This is then used to set the water level at accurate 20:21:33 <CIA-3> percentages. Incidentally this now *guarantees* that a small map will have the 20:21:36 <CIA-3> correct amount of water. No small oceans!! 20:21:38 <CIA-3> The rest of the terrain is then scaled to the maximum height set for that terrain type; 6, 9, 12, 15 respectively for Very Flat to Mountainous. 20:22:00 <RichK67> LOL - log message trimmed ;) 20:22:45 <anboni> someone's been rambling :) 20:23:11 <RichK67> as first line says; its a major mod 20:24:13 <anboni> just jerking your chain :) 20:24:42 <RichK67> np; im in a good mood about it :) 20:25:10 <anboni> that change looks interesting :) 20:25:58 <RichK67> previously the water level was a bit hit-and-miss... sometimes you got what you wanted, but mostly it just did its own thing 20:26:06 <RichK67> now it does what you tell it 20:26:24 <anboni> cool:) 20:26:39 <anboni> as soon as bridges goes back into trunk (and thus in Minty) i'll give it a try :) 20:27:20 <anboni> oh btw, how do you feel about the amount of industries TGP places? I got the feeling it's a bit much on some settings 20:27:48 *** dp-- [n=dp@p54B2E119.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20:27:49 *** dp__ is now known as dp-- 20:28:33 <RichK67> its exactly the same as normal OTTD, except i know what you mean; at times it just doesnt *feel* the same 20:29:41 <anboni> well, i've never really paid attention to it in the past, but from your words i understand TGP has nothing to do with industry placement? 20:29:47 <XeryusTC> you notice some things faster with TGP, like the high amount of mitters placed together 20:29:49 *** Zimri [i=Zimri@cpc1-ely13-0-0-cust1001.cdif.cable.ntl.com] has quit [] 20:30:58 <anboni> i noticed it when looking at the in-game map set to display industries (so no landscape visible) 20:31:57 <RichK67> anboni: it does change industry placement, but not how many, just where... 20:32:37 *** Tron [n=tron@p54A3ECEB.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 20:32:42 <RichK67> i think i might need to "stretch" mountainous a bit to give more higher levels 20:32:43 <Tron> RichK67: free() 20:32:53 <RichK67> i did wonder about that... 20:33:05 <RichK67> before the malloc, or at the end of the routine? 20:33:11 <RichK67> or both# 20:33:20 <anboni> well.. i got a 2048x512 map now, which really feels like it's full of industries 20:33:26 <peter1138> end of the routine 20:33:33 <anboni> and that's with amount of industries set to norma 20:33:50 <peter1138> Tron: in MakePCXImage, if sizeof(*palette) isn't 3, what should i do? 20:33:55 <RichK67> btw - Tron & peter... many thanks for the prods and discussion on this... it is definitely better 20:34:02 <Tron> peter1138: which architecture? 20:34:02 <peter1138> (comment it all out, maybe, heh) 20:34:12 <peter1138> "arm-wince-pe" 20:34:21 <peter1138> (got a bit bored) 20:34:26 <Tron> yay, then you have to copy the palette into a byte array 20:34:38 <peter1138> i do like the compiler error... 20:34:40 <peter1138> screenshot.c:391: error: size of array `a' is negative 20:34:49 <Tron> the assert is just a "i'm too lazy to write a copy loop" 20:35:07 <RichK67> "normal" industries is 8 coal @ 256x256... 2048x512 is 8x2 times bigger; so you should have 8*16 coal mines; go on ... count them ;) 20:36:43 <RichK67> adding these lines to the end of the routine... is this correct, before i commit?? 20:36:44 <RichK67> //clean up mallocs 20:36:44 <RichK67> free(temp_map); 20:36:44 <RichK67> free(hist_map); 20:37:02 <anboni> RichK67, i'm "guesticounting" around 120, so i guess that sounds about right then :) 20:37:57 *** Sacro [n=Sacro@adsl-213-249-237-183.karoo.KCOM.COM] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20:38:03 <Tron> RichK67: redundantly redundant comment 20:38:19 <RichK67> IMO, it is too much, and needs scaling back as the map gets bigger.... i think about 48 would look better at that scale; maybe increase the baseline production to compensate; (fewer industries, but each worth more) 20:38:27 <RichK67> okies... no nice comment ;) 20:38:31 <Tron> the only purpose of free() is to free allocated memory 20:38:34 <glx> for ( i=0; i < 1500; i++ ) { hist_map[i] = 0; } // clear histogram <--- can be replaced by memset or something like that 20:38:51 <Tron> or just use hist_map = calloc(...) 20:39:09 <RichK67> you will have to give me exact syntax; my book here is useless 20:39:31 <RichK67> "malloc - you should use new instead" ... bastard Shoustrup 20:39:41 <Tron> why are *_map static? 20:39:42 <peter1138> that's c++, not c 20:39:55 <RichK67> yup - i dont have a C book 20:40:14 <peter1138> hist_map = calloc(n, sizeof(*hist_map)); (where n is 1500... preferably not the magic number) 20:40:15 <anboni> RichK67, how about just using the "x-size" multiplier, instead of both x and y? So a 2048x512 map would end up with ~64 coal mines instead of 128 with current algo? 20:40:16 <Tron> calloc(number_of_elements, size_of_each_element) 20:41:09 <RichK67> so you want me to set a const int n = 1500; and use it once???? 20:43:08 *** TinoM| [n=Tino@i5387D05D.versanet.de] has joined #openttd 20:43:25 <RichK67> tell you what, feel free to come in to the code, and correct my non-understanding of how you want me to use this.... (i copied the style from a bit in vehicle.c, so you may want to fix that too ;) ) 20:43:28 <Tron> hmhm 20:43:48 <Tron> where's the magical guarantee that temp_map is always between 0 and 1500? 20:43:56 <Tron> (excluding 1500) 20:44:51 <peter1138> if (temp_map[row * width + col] > max_perlin_height) max_perlin_height = temp_map[row * width + col]; 20:44:54 <peter1138> 429 if (temp_map[row * width + col] < min_perlin_height) min_perlin_height = temp_map[row * width + col]; 20:44:58 <peter1138> contender for clamp() ? 20:45:03 <peter1138> oh 20:45:06 <peter1138> no, ignore me :) 20:45:22 <Tron> rather a temporary var for temp_map[row * width + col] 20:45:29 <RichK67> im beginning to wonder whether to walk away, and let you lot write my patch for me 20:45:56 <peter1138> RichK67: it would be better to stay and watch :) 20:46:12 *** Sacro [n=Sacro@adsl-213-249-237-183.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd 20:46:24 <RichK67> not necessarily, as it is demoralising... neither of you have said one positive thing yet 20:46:36 <Tron> my main concern is the 1500 20:46:45 <glx> RichK67: and do it yourself following the advices :) 20:46:48 <RichK67> you wont like the 500 either 20:46:51 <Tron> where's the guarantee that the noise stays within the bounds? 20:48:05 <peter1138> RichK67: not-positive would be ignoring it ;) 20:48:11 <peter1138> hmm 20:48:18 <RichK67> its based on the amplitude... it cant go higher than the sum of the persistence values to their respective powers, multiplied by the amplitude... on current basis, that limits it to about -250 to +580, so ive allowed -500 to +1000 .... 20:49:10 <Trenskow> shouldn't we encourage chris sawyer to come and join the development, with some spaghetti code :D 20:49:21 <RichK67> (incidentally i dont know why the negative side isnt as equally large as the positive... mathematically it could be, but in practice, i have *never* seen it lower than about -220) 20:50:33 <Tron> hmhm 20:51:15 <Tron> i made a dirt cheap implementation and i can calculate the maximum (minimum is zero, i use unsigned values) with a simple power series 20:52:32 <Tron> i halve the amplitude with each octave, so the maximum is twice the amplitude of the first octave (and that only if you have infinite octaves, i just use 10) 20:52:41 <RichK67> ok, is this better; 20:52:42 <RichK67> const int PerlinHeightLowerLimit = 500; 20:52:42 <RichK67> const int PerlinHeightUpperLimit = 1500; 20:52:42 <RichK67> temp_map = calloc(MapSize(), sizeof(*temp_map)); 20:52:42 <RichK67> hist_map = calloc(PerlinHeightLimit, sizeof(*hist_map)); 20:53:02 <RichK67> apart from the obvious typo 20:54:25 *** Belugas is now known as Belugas_Gone 20:54:29 <glx> isn't (row * width + col) a TileIndex? 20:54:45 <RichK67> ok, it might be better to have: const int PerlinHeightLowerLimit = 500; 20:54:46 <RichK67> const int PerlinHeightUpperLimit = 1000; 20:54:46 <RichK67> 20:54:46 <RichK67> temp_map = calloc( MapSize(), sizeof(*temp_map) ); 20:54:46 <RichK67> hist_map = calloc( PerlinHeightLowerLimit + PerlinHeightUpperLimit, sizeof(*hist_map) ); 20:58:28 *** TinoM| [n=Tino@i5387D05D.versanet.de] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 21:01:07 <anboni> is there a reliable way to see exactly what kind of vehicles a .grf includes? 21:01:20 *** TinoM [n=Tino@i5387FB67.versanet.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 21:01:35 <glx> anboni: the web site of the grf creator? 21:02:12 <anboni> good point:) 21:05:14 <Sacro> anboni: grfcodec -d :) 21:05:50 <glx> yes that works too :) 21:06:03 <anboni> i found the website already :) and i found out that ukrs doesnt include any freight maglev stuff, it seems :( 21:06:21 <Sacro> anboni: nope, it doesnt 21:06:24 <glx> only passengers, mail and goods 21:06:27 <RichK67> yup - its a bummer :( 21:06:35 <anboni> so i guess i dont want ukrs then :) 21:07:02 <anboni> is it safe to remove ukrs from my configuration if i dont have any vehicles yet? 21:07:22 <glx> if none are used it should work 21:07:26 <RichK67> i spent ages in the runup to maglev, building a wonderful long freight network... ready to maglev it, and boom ... couldnt... wasted several game years ;( 21:07:41 <peter1138> heh 21:07:47 *** Mek [n=marijn@cc9952-a.ensch1.ov.home.nl] has joined #openttd 21:07:51 <peter1138> pikka is going to redo the maglev in ukrs 21:07:56 <peter1138> (as well redoing most of ukrs) 21:08:06 <RichK67> yay!! freight, freight, freight :) 21:08:48 <anboni> did he simply not think of doing freight maglev? or couldnt he because the number of slots was too limited? 21:08:53 <RichK67> peter... shall i commit corrections, or just cut my throat now??? ;) 21:09:22 <peter1138> why not do both! 21:09:26 <anboni> hmm.. this is interesting 21:09:34 <anboni> i managed to make ottd die 21:09:58 <peter1138> that's easy 21:10:02 <anboni> looks like there's a deadlock chance when autosave kicks in at the same time you do a manual save 21:10:06 <Sacro> yep, i know quite a few ways 21:11:52 <anboni> is there anything i can do with this dead process to help pinpoint the problem? or is this a known problem that's just too complex to fix without breaking other things? 21:12:26 <Eddi|zuHause> [12.06. 22:40] <RichK67> (incidentally i dont know why the negative side isnt as equally large as the positive... mathematically it could be, but in practice, i have *never* seen it lower than about -220) <- i would assume because the even powers never get negative ;) 21:12:37 <CIA-3> richk * r5242 /branch/MiniIN/tgp.c: 21:12:37 <CIA-3> [MiniIN]: [TGP]: Modified mallocs into callocs. Freed up allocated memory at end of routine. 21:12:37 <CIA-3> Added a couple of consts to clarify what the "magic" numbers 1500 and 500 are. 21:13:15 <RichK67> eddi: great answer... makes sense too! :) 21:14:22 <RichK67> ok - guys, shreddies time.... (RichK watches as his code shatters in his hands.. :( ) 21:15:12 <[Shaman]> o_O 21:15:15 <glx> RichK67: for ( i=0; i < PerlinHeightNegLimit + PerlinHeightPosLimit; i++ ) { hist_map[i] = 0; } // clear histogram <-- not needed with calloc 21:15:16 <[Shaman]> NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO :p 21:15:30 *** Trenskow^ [n=outlet@85.218.166.154] has joined #openttd 21:15:51 <RichK67> i did wonder... but the comment about that was in the middle of about 6 people talking :( 21:15:53 *** Trenskow [n=outlet@85.218.166.154] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 21:15:53 *** Trenskow^ is now known as Trenskow 21:16:33 <glx> RichK67: calloc came out when we talked about this line :) 21:17:05 *** Jenkz [n=nobody@80-192-44-21.cable.ubr05.dund.blueyonder.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 21:17:26 <peter1138> nini 21:17:39 <glx> gn peter1138 21:18:50 <[Shaman]> nn 21:18:55 <RichK67> all that was said was: [21:38] glx: for ( i=0; i < 1500; i++ ) { hist_map[i] = 0; } // clear histogram <--- can be replaced by memset or something like that 21:18:55 <RichK67> [21:38] Tron: or just use hist_map = calloc(...) which is not as clear as "not needed with calloc" 21:19:11 <RichK67> thanks anyway 21:19:13 <RichK67> gn peter 21:19:21 <anboni> looks like with the ukrs removed, i still dont get all vehicles like i should.. bummer, guess i'll get to make my spanky station again :( 21:20:32 <Eddi|zuHause> resetengines? 21:21:01 <RichK67> anboni: had you got well into the game, or only just into it; if the second, rename the .sav, as .scn ... load in ScenGen without grfs, resave, and then select NewGame, and choose the sceanario... 21:21:10 <Darkvater> 'ello 21:21:18 <RichK67> lo Darkvater! :) 21:21:50 <Darkvater> I seem to be kinda absent in the recent past 21:21:52 <anboni> Eddi|zuHause, thanks, hadn't thought of that one.. although that doesnt seem to fix it all either 21:21:56 *** |Jeroen| [n=jeroen@dD5E03EB1.access.telenet.be] has quit ["Whoopsy"] 21:22:38 <Eddi|zuHause> you should simply avoid changing newgrfs midgame... 21:23:05 <anboni> yeah, i know.. but it's either this or build this spanky station again in a new game :) 21:24:56 *** Angst [n=Angst@p549455C6.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["gn"] 21:25:47 *** Brianetta [n=brian@82-39-52-234.cable.ubr03.benw.blueyonder.co.uk] has joined #openttd 21:28:15 *** iridium`nh [n=iridium@host-84-9-208-77.bulldogdsl.com] has joined #openttd 21:29:43 *** Tron [n=tron@p54A3ECEB.dip.t-dialin.net] has left #openttd ["Client exiting"] 21:32:03 *** sw4y [n=sw4y@snat2.arachne.czfree.net] has quit ["Odletam do paralelniho vesmiru..."] 21:41:33 *** Cxaxukluth [n=Sean@82-71-32-147.dsl.in-addr.zen.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 21:45:29 *** lws1984 [n=lws1984@ip68-9-157-1.ri.ri.cox.net] has joined #openttd 21:50:55 *** tokai [n=tokai@p54B82567.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit ["whooosh the lordi... whoosh-whooooossssh it! all our hail depends on it. :)"] 21:51:23 *** lws1984 [n=lws1984@ip68-9-157-1.ri.ri.cox.net] has quit ["Lost terminal"] 21:54:04 *** Darkvater [n=tfarago@tin.liacs.nl] has quit ["leaving"] 21:58:31 *** Dred_furst [i=nn@user-7931.lns2-c7.dsl.pol.co.uk] has quit ["( www.nnscript.de :: NoNameScript 4.0 :: www.XLhost.de )"] 22:01:13 *** Schamane_ [n=schamane@p5498DB96.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 22:02:47 *** Osai [n=Osai@p54B370B9.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [] 22:04:22 *** lws1984 [n=lws1984@ip68-9-157-1.ri.ri.cox.net] has joined #openttd 22:04:45 *** Trippledence__ [n=Trippled@cust183-dsl52.idnet.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 22:05:04 *** Trippledence [n=Trippled@cust183-dsl52.idnet.net] has joined #openttd 22:12:54 *** Born_Acorn [n=bornacor@AC8F1DAF.ipt.aol.com] has quit [] 22:13:08 *** jacke^ [n=mm@h175n4fls32o1104.telia.com] has quit ["hej"] 22:13:40 <KUDr> RichK67: alive? 22:14:04 <RichK67> ngggggggggggghh 22:14:09 <RichK67> sorta ;) 22:14:13 <KUDr> pm 22:14:20 <RichK67> sure 22:15:03 * Sacro hums 22:15:39 <Brianetta> *BANG* 22:15:39 * Brianetta just shot Sacro 22:16:09 * Sacro isnt best pleased about that 22:16:30 <RichK67> KUDr: i can see you, but you dont seem to get my messages 22:16:40 <KUDr> aha 22:16:49 <KUDr> do you want optimized tgp.c with histogram? 22:16:56 <KUDr> much faster 22:16:59 <RichK67> got one already... in MiniIN :) 22:17:02 <KUDr> better terains maybe 22:17:16 <RichK67> ill take a look, sure... might steal the odd idea ;) 22:17:29 <KUDr> ok, sending... 22:18:01 <blathijs> RichK67: You're probably not identified with NickServ? You can't send pm's on FreeNode when you're not identified 22:18:33 <RichK67> yeah, it doesnt seem to remember my identify :( 22:19:16 <RichK67> thanks, yes, that was it 22:20:28 *** SchAmane [n=schamane@p5498FFAA.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:22:08 *** Ihmemies [i=ihmemies@a81-197-103-246.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit ["Signed off"] 22:25:46 *** shintah [i=bebble@bebble.olf.sgsnet.se] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 22:27:46 *** lws1984 [n=lws1984@ip68-9-157-1.ri.ri.cox.net] has quit ["Lost terminal"] 22:38:50 *** paulstuffins [n=paulstuf@host-84-9-15-207.bulldogdsl.com] has quit ["Leaving"] 22:41:38 *** paulstuffins [n=paulstuf@host-84-9-15-207.bulldogdsl.com] has joined #openttd 22:47:58 *** BJH_ [n=chatzill@e176123067.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit ["ChatZilla 0.9.61 [Mozilla rv:1.7.12/20050915]"] 22:48:16 *** Brianetta [n=brian@82-39-52-234.cable.ubr03.benw.blueyonder.co.uk] has quit ["Tschüß"] 22:53:42 <Trenskow> now i'll be throwing myself out in creating panels... wish me luck :D 22:55:45 *** Trippledence [n=Trippled@cust183-dsl52.idnet.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 22:55:46 *** Trippledence_ [n=Trippled@cust183-dsl52.idnet.net] has joined #openttd 22:59:28 <bulio> what do transfers do? 23:03:48 <RichK67> not work ;) 23:05:20 <Eddi|zuHause> theoretically, they allow feeder services... like you get small trains that get coal to a hub station, and then a large train that gets the coal all across the map to a power station 23:05:38 <Eddi|zuHause> but that does not work as well as one might wish ;) 23:05:44 <Eddi|zuHause> so you should simply ignore it 23:07:36 <Eddi|zuHause> for this to work properly, the game needs cargo packages (with origin and possibly destination of each bit of cargo) 23:07:52 <Eddi|zuHause> or even better: real shunting of wagons 23:08:45 <Eddi|zuHause> both are not implemented... 23:15:32 *** GoneWacko[LAN] [n=gonewack@c18041.upc-c.chello.nl] has joined #openttd 23:16:05 *** Zerot_ [i=Zerot@g35026.upc-g.chello.nl] has joined #openttd 23:17:52 *** Zerot [i=Zerot@g35026.upc-g.chello.nl] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 23:21:46 <bulio> Will big htings be implemented in OpenTTD? 23:21:51 <bulio> Or just small improvements? 23:22:55 <bulio> and secondly, to replace anyhting, I go to the depot, clone it, sell it and use it's copy? 23:23:01 *** Bjarni [n=Bjarni@0x50a41639.virnxx14.adsl-dhcp.tele.dk] has quit ["Leaving"] 23:28:17 <Eddi|zuHause> no, just sell the engine, and by a new one 23:28:27 <Eddi|zuHause> it remembers the orders 23:28:45 <Eddi|zuHause> and it keeps the wagons (and their cargo) 23:29:30 *** lws1984 [n=lws1984@ip68-9-157-1.ri.ri.cox.net] has joined #openttd 23:29:36 *** ^Cartman^ [n=Eric_Car@ti100710a081-4474.bb.online.no] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 23:31:04 <RichK67> lots of big improvements to come; bridges over anything (including diagonal track)... new terrains, new airports, ... 23:33:03 *** GoneWacko [n=gonewack@c18041.upc-c.chello.nl] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 23:35:24 <CIA-3> richk * r5243 /branch/MiniIN/tgp.c: 23:35:24 <CIA-3> [MiniIN]: [TGP]: Further tidying of vars. 23:35:24 <CIA-3> Added routine to adjust the distribution of the terrain heights, giving 23:35:24 <CIA-3> mountainous a bias towards high level terrain, and very flat a bias towards low 23:35:24 <CIA-3> level terrain. Idea for that and help creating the transformation function by 23:35:25 <CIA-3> KUDr. 23:37:02 *** Eddi|zuHause2 [i=johekr@p54B75BFA.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 23:38:12 *** Sacro [n=Sacro@adsl-213-249-237-183.karoo.KCOM.COM] has quit [Connection timed out] 23:40:08 *** valhallasw is now known as valhallazzzw 23:40:08 *** Trippledence_ [n=Trippled@cust183-dsl52.idnet.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 23:40:17 *** Trippledence_ [n=Trippled@cust183-dsl52.idnet.net] has joined #openttd 23:41:34 *** Sacro [n=Sacro@87.102.18.212] has joined #openttd 23:42:18 *** Kjetil_ [i=kjetil@81.166.7.161] has joined #openttd 23:43:15 *** Spoco [n=Spoco@dsl-062-197-163-65.lohjanpuhelin.fi] has quit [] 23:46:36 <CIA-3> richk * r5244 /branch/MiniIN/tgp.c: [MiniIN]: [TGP]: Protect scale_factor from exceeding 1. This would cause an assert in tile.h. 23:48:25 *** Kjetil [i=kjetil@81.166.7.161] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 23:49:40 *** Maedhros [n=jc@gentoo/developer/Maedhros] has quit ["leaving"] 23:59:37 *** Eddi|zuHause [i=johekr@p54B756BC.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]