Times are UTC Toggle Colours
00:02:23 <Eddi|zuHause2> isn't "stamgast" a little exaggerated for someone who stays only for half an hour? 00:03:12 <Rubidium> yup 00:03:28 *** Mucht [~Mucht@87.160.248.239] has joined #openttd 00:10:28 *** Fullauto [~Barney@82-69-88-85.dsl.in-addr.zen.co.uk] has joined #openttd 00:12:55 *** Mucht [~Mucht@87.160.248.239] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 00:17:28 *** Mucht [~Mucht@p57A0F8EF.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 00:43:01 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1C58B.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:55:39 *** Wezz6400 [~Wezz6400@ndb.demon.nl] has quit [Quit: Zzz <-- not enough tonight :(] 01:31:13 *** Eddi|zuHause3 [~johekr@p54B769B1.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 01:37:40 *** Eddi|zuHause2 [~johekr@p54B7547E.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 01:38:26 *** Mucht [~Mucht@p57A0F8EF.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 02:06:43 *** glx [glx@bny93-6-82-245-156-124.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Quit: bye] 02:15:01 *** nightstalker_ [~Alex@p5494C9D2.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 02:20:21 *** nightstalker [~Alex@p5494CEEF.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 02:29:55 *** CobraA1 [~Jeremiah@75-163-128-216.clsp.qwest.net] has joined #openttd 02:36:29 *** Fullauto [~Barney@82-69-88-85.dsl.in-addr.zen.co.uk] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:36:36 *** Osai^2 [~Osai@pD9EB7293.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 02:42:01 *** Alltaken [~chatzilla@121-72-235-8.cable.telstraclear.net] has joined #openttd 02:43:10 *** Osai [~Osai@pD9EB5946.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 02:49:41 *** Osai^2 [~Osai@pD9EB7293.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 02:50:37 *** Ammller [~Ammler@89.217.158.245] has joined #openttd 02:54:08 *** Ammler [~Ammler@89.217.158.245] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 03:01:39 *** lugo [~lugo@pD9583819.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 03:08:13 *** nightstalker_ [~Alex@p5494C9D2.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Nightstalkers Don't Quit.] 03:08:44 *** Brianetta [~brian@82-39-52-234.cable.ubr03.benw.blueyonder.co.uk] has quit [Quit: TschÃŒÃ] 03:12:24 *** nairan_zzZZ [~Maui_key@p5498C8E4.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 03:16:13 *** mcbane [~Maui_key@p5498F187.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 03:24:18 *** MrBrrr [~chatzilla@bas3-montreal02-1096689119.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.78.1 [Firefox 2.0.0.6/2007072518]] 04:00:23 *** alex__ [~joe@62.249.237.101] has joined #openttd 04:07:17 *** alex_ [~joe@62-249-237-101.no-dns-yet.enta.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 05:01:53 *** scriber [~scri@c-76-16-198-248.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #openttd 05:27:43 *** scriber [~scri@c-76-16-198-248.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: X-iRc v2.6.1 Armour au Claire de Lune -- http://www.dgtalx.net] 05:48:43 *** simon444 [~simon@124-170-236-169.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #openttd 05:48:54 <simon444> hi 05:49:10 <simon444> OpenTTD is going bankrupt? 05:49:29 <simon444> why not ask for donated server parts 05:50:01 <simon444> with the money 05:56:14 <simon444> I am donating 0AUD 05:56:26 <simon444> *thinking 05:56:43 <simon444> just wondering if there are any paypal fees 05:57:18 <simon444> i.e. are you recognized by paypal for being a charity 05:57:45 <simon444> I mean cross-currency fees 05:58:58 <simon444> hello?? 06:17:33 *** nairan_zzZZ is now known as mcbane 06:18:05 <mcbane> they are not goig bankrupt 06:20:22 <simon444> okay 06:32:09 *** G [~njones@202.154.148.163] has joined #openttd 06:36:52 *** CobraA1 [~Jeremiah@75-163-128-216.clsp.qwest.net] has left #openttd [] 06:41:33 *** KouDy [user@85.207.64.178] has joined #openttd 06:50:26 <simon444> mMmMm sEaWeeD 06:51:45 *** simon888 [~simon@124-170-20-41.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #openttd 06:52:52 <simon888> <simon444> mMmMm sEaWeeD 06:52:52 <simon888> <simon444> it is the stuff dolphin's get high on 06:52:52 <simon888> <simon444> (it says that on the pack of seaweed I bought yesterday) 06:52:52 <simon888> <simon444> (talk about weird) 06:54:59 *** simon222 [~simon@124-171-254-185.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #openttd 06:55:25 <simon222> err you got that? 06:58:40 *** simon444 [~simon@124-170-236-169.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 06:59:09 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@host240-239-dynamic.15-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #openttd 06:59:47 <Wolf01> hello 07:01:42 *** simon888 [~simon@124-170-20-41.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 07:03:01 *** simon444 [~simon@124-170-121-68.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #openttd 07:05:38 *** simon888 [~simon@124-170-33-231.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #openttd 07:08:40 *** simon222 [~simon@124-171-254-185.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 07:12:10 *** simon444 [~simon@124-170-121-68.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 07:26:32 *** TinoM|Mobil [~tino@83.135.195.47] has joined #openttd 07:30:47 *** simon444 [~simon@124-170-142-83.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #openttd 07:34:42 *** simon888 [~simon@124-170-33-231.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 07:34:53 *** simon888 [~simon@124-170-111-223.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #openttd 07:40:15 *** simon111 [~simon@124-170-104-34.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #openttd 07:41:10 *** simon444 [~simon@124-170-142-83.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 07:46:15 *** Zaviori [~zavior@d195-237-7-209.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:46:32 *** Zavior [~zavior@d195-237-7-209.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #openttd 07:46:40 *** simon888 [~simon@124-170-111-223.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 07:47:03 *** Zaviori [~zavior@d195-237-7-209.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #openttd 07:47:09 <simon111> bYE 07:47:14 *** simon111 [~simon@124-170-104-34.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 08:11:59 *** Progman [~progman@87.161.222.9] has joined #openttd 08:12:16 *** TinoM|Mobil [~tino@83.135.195.47] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 08:22:07 *** Osai [~Osai@pD9EB6FE7.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 08:23:40 *** Mucht [~Mucht@87.160.220.68] has joined #openttd 08:24:13 *** iPandaMojo [~panda@c-67-183-216-154.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #openttd 08:28:02 *** Zaviori [~zavior@d195-237-7-209.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:28:02 *** Zavior [~zavior@d195-237-7-209.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:28:13 *** Zavior [~zavior@d195-237-7-209.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #openttd 08:28:14 *** Zaviori [~zavior@d195-237-7-209.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #openttd 08:30:35 *** SmatZ [~smatz@a40-prg1-5-107.static.adsl.vol.cz] has joined #openttd 08:30:40 *** Zaviori [~zavior@d195-237-7-209.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [] 08:42:51 *** Peakki [antti@cs181000195.pp.htv.fi] has joined #openttd 08:55:27 *** TinoM [~Tino@i5387C32F.versanet.de] has joined #openttd 09:07:21 *** paul__ [~paul@81-178-15-211.dsl.pipex.com] has joined #openttd 09:07:41 *** Insight` [~askme@host64-21.bornet.net] has joined #openttd 09:14:05 *** Dephenom [~paul@81-178-15-211.dsl.pipex.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 09:16:06 *** paul__ is now known as Dephenom 09:16:36 *** G_ [~njones@202.154.148.163] has joined #openttd 09:18:25 *** G [~njones@202.154.148.163] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 09:19:04 *** elmex [~elmex@e180064157.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #openttd 09:27:16 <peter1138> spectrator? 09:27:26 <peter1138> do they betray your secrets? 09:28:05 *** iPandaMojo [~panda@c-67-183-216-154.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: iPandaMojo] 09:33:33 *** Wolf01 is now known as Wolf01|AWAY 09:35:56 <mcbane> uh? 09:36:28 *** skidd13 [~skidd13@p548A7016.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 09:36:32 *** skidd13 [~skidd13@p548A7016.dip.t-dialin.net] has left #openttd [] 09:37:22 <mcbane> btw what hapened to celestar didnt see him for longer time. 09:44:39 *** G_ is now known as G 09:46:47 *** Mark [~Mark@86.84.7.53] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 09:49:24 *** Vikthor [~Vikthor@snat1.spoje.net] has joined #openttd 09:53:00 *** Brianetta [~brian@82-39-52-234.cable.ubr03.benw.blueyonder.co.uk] has joined #openttd 09:53:29 <Rubidium> mcbane: ask him when he returns 10:02:31 <mcbane> ok =) 10:03:42 *** DJ_Mirage [~sexybigge@biggetje.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 10:11:54 *** Chris82 [~Chris82@p579E19A0.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 10:11:55 <Chris82> hi 10:12:16 <Chris82> I've got a little problem with the new GetDisplayRunningCost() function 10:12:49 <Chris82> I modified the original line to look like this Money GetDisplayRunningCost() const { return (this->GetRunningCost() * VehRunCostFactor() >> 8); } 10:13:04 <Chris82> this will multiply the running costs with a certain factor e.g. 10 10:13:30 <Chris82> it works fine for ships, aircraft and road vehicles but for trains it calculates the running cost * 10 * 10 why is that?? 10:14:17 <Rubidium> because you do the * VehRunCostFactor in the train Train::GetRunningCost too? 10:14:29 *** Alltaken [~chatzilla@121-72-235-8.cable.telstraclear.net] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.78.1 [Firefox 2.0.0.6/2007072518]] 10:14:58 <Chris82> nope that's not the problem unfortunately 10:15:21 <Chris82> I have to do it there so the actual running costs are properly calculated as well not only the display 10:15:25 *** Alltaken [~chatzilla@121-72-235-8.cable.telstraclear.net] has joined #openttd 10:15:30 <Chris82> but even when I remove it there the display is still * 10 * 10 10:15:40 *** Alltaken [~chatzilla@121-72-235-8.cable.telstraclear.net] has quit [] 10:15:42 <Chris82> only the calculated costs are wrong then as expected 10:15:58 *** iPandaMojo [~panda@c-67-183-216-154.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #openttd 10:16:36 <Rubidium> without more clues I can't help you 10:17:23 <Rubidium> and I'm not going to be happy when I get a 500 kiB diff file either 10:17:38 <Chris82> well I am a bit lost right now... I thought the way Vehicle Running Costs are displayed and calculated have been unified 10:18:32 <Chris82> so I thought I can simply the daypatch to just do VehRunCostFactor() * GetRunngingCost() and VehRunCostFactor() * GetDisplayRunCostFactor() 10:18:48 <Chris82> but in fact that's not possible because the costs are still calculated seperately in numerous files 10:19:03 <Noldo> unify! 10:19:34 <Noldo> could you put the * factor in to the GetRunningCost() funxtion ? 10:20:11 <Chris82> no it's not possible 10:20:24 <Chris82> I don't quite get how GetRunningCost works 10:20:52 <Chris82> for example virtual Money GetRunningCost() const { return 0; } ...how does this return the actual running costs of a vehicle?? 10:21:26 <Noldo> it's just a base class function that is overloaded in the derived classes 10:21:40 <Noldo> it's propably never called 10:22:54 <Chris82> I also don't understand why GetDisplayRunningCost() is only used in the specific vehicle files and not in the build vehicle gui and engine gui 10:22:59 <Chris82> that's pretty confusing :/ 10:23:29 <Chris82> so basically there are two different ways vehicle running costs are handled now 10:23:29 <Noldo> it was specificly inserted to be used by the vehicle window unification 10:23:50 <Rubidium> who said everything gets unified in the same single step? 10:24:04 <Chris82> yeah but I thought it was supposed to simplify things, instead it made things more complicated 10:24:23 <Chris82> well ok if it gets changed I have to wait I guess 10:24:35 <Noldo> no you can just use the new one 10:25:52 <Rubidium> problem is that engines are completely different entities, i.e. the build vehicle GUI and engine GUI use different variables and are only for a single part of an engine and not the complete thing. 10:27:18 <Rubidium> s/thing/train/ 10:28:11 <Chris82> ok I understand 10:28:41 <Chris82> I think I take a few steps back and try to do it step by step... i.e. first make the display right and then secondly make the calculation output correct values 10:32:55 *** iPandaMojo [~panda@c-67-183-216-154.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: iPandaMojo] 10:38:21 *** ChrisH [~chu@chu.informatik.tu-chemnitz.de] has quit [Quit: leaving] 11:17:57 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: rubidium * r11036 /branches/noai/ (155 files in 12 dirs): [NoAI] -Sync: with trunk r10774:11035. 11:27:17 *** Greyscale [~greyscale@user-5442057d.l5.c1.dsl.pol.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:59:19 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: rubidium * r11037 /branches/NewGRF_ports/src/ (140 files in 8 dirs): [NewGRF_ports] -Sync: with trunk r10844:11035. 11:59:20 *** Fullauto [~Barney@82-69-88-85.dsl.in-addr.zen.co.uk] has joined #openttd 12:00:46 *** Ammlller [~Ammler@89.217.158.245] has joined #openttd 12:04:13 *** Ammller [~Ammler@89.217.158.245] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 12:04:13 *** KritiK [~Maxim@78-106-23-160.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #openttd 12:07:08 *** mikl [~mikl@0x57372ee2.mrbnqu1.broadband.tele.dk] has joined #openttd 12:07:22 *** Chris82 [~Chris82@p579E19A0.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <- It'll be on slashdot one day...] 12:07:23 *** Diabolic-Angel [~dia@xdsl-81-173-251-201.netcologne.de] has joined #openttd 12:09:13 *** glx [glx@bny93-6-82-245-156-124.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #openttd 12:09:13 *** mode/#openttd [+v glx] by ChanServ 12:19:19 *** skidd13 [~skidd13@p548A7016.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 12:24:28 <TrueBrain> so I say: burp 12:24:31 <TrueBrain> then he was all like: wow! 12:24:35 <TrueBrain> and I say: burp 12:24:38 <TrueBrain> and he: wow!!! 12:25:30 <Eddi|zuHause3> wow... 12:26:54 <skidd13> hmm 12:28:17 <Noldo> the dudes were like "dude!" 12:33:28 *** Greyscale [~greyscale@host86-147-99-221.range86-147.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 12:33:43 *** Darkebie [~dkb@d5153D5CD.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd 12:46:12 *** skidd13 [~skidd13@p548A7016.dip.t-dialin.net] has left #openttd [] 12:56:31 *** redmonkey [~redmonkey@p54A05155.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 12:56:38 <redmonkey> hi 12:57:01 <redmonkey> i think i've found a bug 12:57:23 <svip> Checked the flyspray? 12:57:40 *** Digitalfox_Notebook [~chatzilla@bl4-208-2.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #openttd 12:58:11 <redmonkey> the maximum rating in the company performance is 1000, right? 12:59:07 <redmonkey> but the AI suddenly have a company performance rating of ~8600 12:59:36 <svip> O_o? 12:59:40 <svip> That sounds crazy. 13:01:03 <redmonkey> wait a second 13:01:27 <svip> Hm? 13:02:06 <redmonkey> i'm gonna upload a screenshot 13:02:20 <svip> Good. 13:02:26 *** ThePizzaKing [~jeff@c211-28-164-69.eburwd2.vic.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Quit: ThePizzaKing] 13:04:30 <redmonkey> http://img174.imageshack.us/img174/810/openttd052stablelinuxqi7.png 13:05:00 <svip> Could look like a wrapped unsigned int. 13:05:45 *** Greyscale [~greyscale@host86-147-99-221.range86-147.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 13:05:55 <redmonkey> don't tell me, i'm not a programmer :) 13:06:02 <svip> :P 13:06:17 <svip> It could be a bug in the graph window. 13:06:24 <svip> Try removing your own graph, redmonkey. 13:06:37 <svip> :( Can't remember if that is possible. 13:07:03 <SmatZ> redmonkey: can you clink on details for come other company than red? 13:08:55 <redmonkey> another shot, that shows that everybody is a tycoon: 13:09:00 <redmonkey> http://img59.imageshack.us/img59/5164/openttd052stablelinux1zt6.png 13:09:27 <svip> But yet you haven't show us the details for the other companies. 13:09:39 <svip> See the "Detailed performance rating" window? 13:09:44 <svip> We are not interested in red. 13:10:06 <redmonkey> ok wait a second 13:10:42 <Noldo> which uint has valuerange of 0 - ~8640 ? 13:10:47 <svip> SmatZ: This guy is also working with some extreme cases. 13:11:13 <SmatZ> svip: I am going to like him ^_^ 13:12:05 <redmonkey> http://img517.imageshack.us/img517/5982/openttd052stablelinux2ip7.png 13:12:56 <glx> nice bug it seems 13:13:18 <svip> Yep. 13:13:36 <glx> total should be 50 not 8179 13:13:39 <svip> redmonkey: Thanks for bothering to play to 2157 to find this bug. :) 13:13:45 *** Greyscale [~greyscale@host86-147-99-221.range86-147.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 13:14:14 <redmonkey> you're welcome :) 13:16:58 <Noldo> it rates the money wrong? 13:19:24 <redmonkey> i'll be right back 13:19:29 *** redmonkey is now known as rm^away 13:19:48 <SmatZ> what is 'Show company liveries' patch good for? 13:20:02 *** ITSBTH_ [~e@host-81-191-171-43.bluecom.no] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:20:04 <SmatZ> _patches.liveries 13:20:14 *** ITSBTH [~e@host-81-191-171-43.bluecom.no] has joined #openttd 13:21:28 <Eddi|zuHause3> SmatZ: it shows/hides the custom liveries of other companies 13:21:54 *** Bjarni [~Bjarni@0x50a4167e.virnxx14.adsl-dhcp.tele.dk] has joined #openttd 13:21:55 *** mode/#openttd [+o Bjarni] by ChanServ 13:22:21 <SmatZ> Eddi|zuHause3: what are 'custom liveries'? 13:22:58 <Eddi|zuHause3> SmatZ: like painting busses blue/white and lorries green/white and trains yellow/red 13:23:59 <SmatZ> Eddi|zuHause3: ah, thank you 13:24:48 <Eddi|zuHause3> hiding them will show all vehicles in the base company colour 13:25:19 <Bjarni> actually it could be interesting to have red/white busses and another company has white/red busses (if the grf supports this feature). Might make a mess if they are driving in the same town :) 13:25:27 <Eddi|zuHause3> <Noldo> it rates the money wrong? <- it could be the loan 13:27:30 <Eddi|zuHause3> or something completely unrelated, as they all have similar rating 13:27:40 <Bjarni> SmatZ: for the record: the default vehicles don't support 2nd colours, so to use this feature, you need to use newgrf. You can always have white trains and yellow busses if you like though 13:28:47 <Eddi|zuHause3> the DBSetXL does not support company colours at all 13:30:11 *** Digitalfox_Notebook [~chatzilla@bl4-208-2.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.78.1 [Firefox 2.0.0.5/2007071317]] 13:34:06 <SmatZ> Bjarni: so this is the "extended colour scheme"? when I select "light blue" for Trains - Electric engines, it remains yellow :-x 13:34:34 <Bjarni> no 13:34:55 *** Wolf01|AWAY is now known as Wolf01 13:35:56 <Bjarni> you can select one colour for steam, one for electric and so on 13:36:25 <Bjarni> hmm 13:36:44 <Bjarni> well 13:37:21 <SmatZ> Bjarni: I have some problems comparing _patches.xxx with some value ... eg. when it prints if printf("%d %d\n",_patches.xxx == 2, _patches.xxx); 13:37:29 <SmatZ> it prints "0 2" 13:37:39 <SmatZ> so even when it is ==2, comparison is false 13:38:10 <Bjarni> hmm 13:38:20 <Bjarni> there is something wrong with the colours :( 13:38:26 <SmatZ> :( 13:40:00 <Bjarni> oh wait 13:40:05 <Bjarni> now it's working 13:40:11 <Bjarni> error code 40 :P 13:40:34 <SmatZ> what is "error code 40"? 13:40:51 <Bjarni> you have to enable each line (the square to the left of the line) for it to overwrite the globally set colour 13:40:59 <SmatZ> ah... 13:40:59 <Bjarni> <SmatZ> what is "error code 40"? <--- user error 13:41:04 <SmatZ> :D 13:47:43 <SmatZ> hmm I will switch to gcc 4.1.2 ... 13:48:20 <Bjarni> do you dare? 13:49:42 <svip> :O 13:49:58 <SmatZ> hmm it didn't help me at all :( 13:50:13 *** rm^away is now known as redmonkey 13:52:07 <SmatZ> ah yes 13:52:08 <SmatZ> it works 13:52:22 <SmatZ> gcc 4.2.0 and 4.1.2 work in a different way... 13:59:01 *** Peakki [antti@cs181000195.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Quit: LÀhdössÀ] 14:05:35 <redmonkey> uhmmm, shall i report that performance rating bug i found, or is it enough that i told you about it? 14:05:50 <SmatZ> redmonkey: it is better to open a bug report 14:07:57 <redmonkey> ok 14:08:33 *** alexalex [~email@78.86.117.217] has joined #openttd 14:10:13 <SmatZ> http://88.146.45.107/ttd/helpme.diff please, can anyone help me with that? 14:10:21 <redmonkey> SmatZ: in what category would you put it in? 14:10:34 <SmatZ> xx 1 3 2 0 2 2 14:10:38 <SmatZ> ^^^ this is my output... 14:10:46 <SmatZ> redmonkey: into GUI 14:11:40 <SmatZ> when _patches.loading_indicators == 2 14:12:47 <SmatZ> seems the compiler expects it to be 0 or 1... but why? 14:14:04 <Noldo> it still thinks it's a bool? 14:14:23 <SmatZ> maybe ... 14:14:39 <SmatZ> but how can I force it to think it is NOT a bool? 14:15:08 <SmatZ> SDT_VAR(Patches, loading_indicators, SLE_UINT8, S,MS, 2, 0, 2, 0, STR_CONFIG_PATCHES_LOADING_INDICATORS, RedrawScreen), 14:15:16 <SmatZ> ^^^ it is defined as UINT8 .... 14:17:14 <SmatZ> please :-( 14:17:26 <SmatZ> I am absolutelly lost :-x 14:18:59 <Noldo> that printf is just to test the value of _patched.loading_indicators ? 14:21:27 <SmatZ> yes 14:22:07 <Noldo> what happens with switch (_patches.loading_indicators) 14:22:15 <peter1138> bool loading_indicators; // Show loading indicators 14:22:26 <peter1138> that might have something to do with it 14:22:35 <Noldo> :) 14:22:41 <SmatZ> peter1138: thanks! 14:25:20 <SmatZ> peter1138: yes, it was the problem, thanks again :-x a bad day today maybe :) 14:25:32 <SmatZ> the same as other days.. 14:29:39 <Noldo> http://bugs.openttd.org/task/1149 I'll bring this one up again because I would like to get to the making Money a class that depends on it 14:32:21 *** Wezz6400 [Wezz6400@145-118-111-234.fttx.bbned.nl] has joined #openttd 14:38:47 *** Wezz6400_ [Wezz6400@145-118-111-234.fttx.bbned.nl] has joined #openttd 14:39:17 *** tokai [~tokai@p54B8365B.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:40:53 *** tokai [~tokai@p54B8484A.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 14:40:55 *** mode/#openttd [+v tokai] by ChanServ 14:41:02 *** ITSBTH [~e@host-81-191-171-43.bluecom.no] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:41:11 *** ITSBTH [~e@host-81-191-171-43.bluecom.no] has joined #openttd 14:44:18 <SmatZ> redmonkey: does this problem occur in 0.5.3-RC3 ? in current nightly? is it possible to a savegame? 14:44:24 <SmatZ> *to attach a... 14:45:03 <redmonkey> i only have the 0.5.2 stable version here 14:45:20 *** Wezz6400 [Wezz6400@145-118-111-234.fttx.bbned.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:45:23 *** Mucht [~Mucht@87.160.220.68] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 14:45:42 <redmonkey> oh yes, i forgot to attach the savegame 14:51:26 *** |Jeroen| [~jeroen@d51A43614.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd 14:52:44 *** AntB [~AntB-UK@86.155.249.150] has joined #openttd 14:57:57 *** Strid [gg@85.8.6.64.static.se.wasadata.net] has joined #openttd 14:58:48 <redmonkey> ok, i attached the savegame 14:58:51 <redmonkey> gotto go now 14:58:55 <redmonkey> see ya! 14:59:04 *** redmonkey [~redmonkey@p54A05155.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: quit] 15:05:20 *** Strid_ [gg@85.8.6.64.se.wasadata.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:24:44 <ln-> http://games.slashdot.org/games/07/09/01/2038210.shtml 15:27:05 <Bjarni> ln-: did you test it? 15:28:24 <ln-> not yet, i'm "reading" for an exam... 15:28:40 <Bjarni> ahh 15:30:18 <ln-> i.e. avoiding it 15:32:42 <Bjarni> that's how some of the bash quotes starts 15:32:56 <Bjarni> studying for an exam way too late 15:33:43 <Bjarni> like "is base another word for acid" on the night before the chemistry exam x) 15:38:34 *** Wezz6400_ [Wezz6400@145-118-111-234.fttx.bbned.nl] has quit [Quit: reboot] 15:42:33 *** Wezz6400 [Wezz6400@145-118-111-234.fttx.bbned.nl] has joined #openttd 15:48:56 <peter1138> fortunately my chemistry education never got up to using 'base' ... 15:49:33 * Prof_Frink steals peter1138's complete supply of sodium hydroxide 15:49:52 <Prof_Frink> All your base are belong to me! 15:50:37 <Noldo> ehe ehe eh eh 15:54:50 <Bjarni> you know, chemistry can be great fun 15:55:16 <glx> yeah put Mg in H2O :) 15:55:19 <ln-> as long as it involves mixing liquids of different colours 15:55:22 <Bjarni> like mixing sulphur acid with sugar 15:55:34 <Prof_Frink> glx: Doesn't do much 15:55:37 <Bjarni> but do open the window first :) 15:55:53 <Prof_Frink> Try a group I metal instead 15:56:03 <Bjarni> hehe 15:56:30 <Prof_Frink> Or mix Fe2O3 with Al, and ignite with Mg 15:56:56 <Bjarni> most channels talk about acid... we talk about metals and bases :D 15:57:00 <Eddi|zuHause3> that gets a little hot :p 15:57:01 <Prof_Frink> Or make a fuel-air explosion-powered spudgun 15:57:44 <Prof_Frink> Or mix the two 15:58:10 <Eddi|zuHause3> letting phosphor dry up is also fun :) 15:58:11 <Prof_Frink> Make a thermite shell and fire that at something you don't like 16:00:50 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@a62-251-30-68.adsl.xs4all.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:00:59 *** eggburt [~mr-bob@cpc2-staf2-0-0-cust186.sol2.cable.ntl.com] has joined #openttd 16:09:15 *** G_ [~njones@202.154.148.163] has joined #openttd 16:10:05 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@a62-251-30-68.adsl.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 16:10:14 *** Mucht [~Mucht@p57A0DC44.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 16:11:04 *** G [~njones@202.154.148.163] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:13:16 *** Wezz6400 [Wezz6400@145-118-111-234.fttx.bbned.nl] has quit [Quit: reboot] 16:18:57 *** redmonkey [~redmonkey@p54A073BF.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 16:24:44 *** Wezz6400 [Wezz6400@145-118-111-234.fttx.bbned.nl] has joined #openttd 16:36:03 <svip> Bjarni: I thought we talked about trains. 16:36:13 <svip> :( 16:37:16 <redmonkey> uhmm, is someone able to remove attachments from bugs.openttd.org here? 16:38:58 <glx> why? 16:39:12 <redmonkey> because the owner of the savegame that i posted doesnt want it to be published :( 16:39:24 <redmonkey> i told him that it isnt possible.. but i will ask 16:40:19 <glx> it's possible but a savegame is helpful for this kind of bug 16:41:30 <svip> :/ Why doesn't the owner want it to be posted, redmonkey ? 16:41:46 <redmonkey> aren't the screenshot enough? if yes, just remove it. if no, don't remove it.. 16:42:17 <redmonkey> svip: good question. maybe he doesn't wat others to see his build-style :) 16:42:23 <glx> screenshots show the bug but savegame may explain it 16:42:35 <svip> That's not why we are downloading, redmonkey. 16:42:39 <svip> +it 16:42:46 *** alexalex [~email@78.86.117.217] has quit [Quit: ircN 8.00 for mIRC (20070730)] 16:43:50 <redmonkey> ok no problem. if it's good for the developement of the game, leave it where it is ;) 16:47:25 <elmex> Rubidium: hmm 16:48:14 <elmex> what are the 'Transfer Credits' for btw.? they are always 0 here 16:48:17 <elmex> (with the latest svn) 16:48:25 <elmex> even when picking up transfered stuff 16:49:15 *** Greyscale [~greyscale@host86-147-99-221.range86-147.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:52:53 <redmonkey> i'm also the owner of this savegame, because we played it as a network game together (teammode). but i've built 80% of everything. so i technically i'm the owner 16:53:15 <redmonkey> wait no, that was another game 16:53:27 <redmonkey> it's NOT a network game 16:53:37 <redmonkey> oh nevermind :) 16:54:41 <redmonkey> btw: where can i find the "what's new" section for every version? 16:56:10 *** DJ_Mirage [~sexybigge@biggetje.xs4all.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:57:34 *** DJ_Mirage [~sexybigge@biggetje.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 16:59:30 *** Greyscale [~greyscale@host86-147-99-221.range86-147.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 17:00:44 <Eddi|zuHause3> in changelog.txt? 17:03:06 <redmonkey> ahh yes. thank you! 17:07:50 *** silent [~pwr@86.121.234.20] has joined #openttd 17:08:20 *** Greyscale [~greyscale@host86-147-99-221.range86-147.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:19:03 *** Tekky [~Tekky@p5493E26C.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 17:19:25 <Tekky> Hi, I have a short question: The savegames of TTDPatch and OpenTTD are completely incompatible, aren't they? 17:19:47 <TrueBrain> OpenTTD -> TTDP, yes 17:19:53 <TrueBrain> TTDP -> OpenTTD, works partly 17:20:42 <TrueBrain> (so loading a TTDP savegame in OpenTTD, works for the basic part) 17:21:53 <Tekky> Thanks. I am currently designing a new PBS system for OpenTTD and needed to know whether people will be attempting to load their TTDPatch PBS track layouts into OpenTTD. 17:22:16 <TrueBrain> most extended things in TTDp (which are not in TTD) aren't loaded when loading such a savegame 17:22:19 <Tekky> Since my PBS system is very different, I wanted to know whether I need a TTDPatch compatibility mode. 17:22:20 <TrueBrain> some parts do, most don't 17:22:34 <TrueBrain> don't worry about it too much, okay? :) 17:22:41 <Tekky> Ok :) 17:23:43 *** skidd13 [~skidd13@p548A561E.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 17:29:53 <elmex> Tekky: PBS!!!! 17:30:02 <elmex> thats gonna be exciting 17:32:44 <Bjarni> wait until you actually see it 17:32:54 <Bjarni> it's easier said than done :( 17:33:12 <Bjarni> however I still find it good news that somebody actually works on it :) 17:33:47 <elmex> yea, of course, but finally at least someone says he is doing it :) 17:35:59 <Eddi|zuHause3> <Tekky> Since my PBS system is very different, I wanted to know whether I need a TTDPatch compatibility mode. <- i'd vote no, just have a TTD compatibility mode, and downgrade TTDP PBS on load to TTD signals 17:36:34 <DaleStan> But what do you do when there are already multiple trains in a single block? 17:36:44 <Bjarni> crash them :P 17:36:47 <elmex> yea 17:37:00 <Eddi|zuHause3> that's the user's fault :) 17:37:10 <Bjarni> make working PBS first and then we can consider loading afterwards 17:37:22 <Bjarni> like if we care 17:37:23 <Bjarni> :p 17:37:24 <DaleStan> The user's fault for using TTDPatch's PBS, or the user's fault for trying to load a TTDPatch save in Open? 17:37:35 <Bjarni> both 17:37:36 *** Mucht_ [~Mucht@p57A0E3E7.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 17:37:44 <Eddi|zuHause3> it's not like he couldn't just reload and pause immediately 17:38:10 <Eddi|zuHause3> in 98% of all cases, the trains exit normally anyway 17:38:47 <TrueBrain> For the general information: these are the opinions of individual users and are in no way related to the general line OpenTTD likes to follow. They can or can not match. 17:39:16 <Eddi|zuHause3> "may or may not" is probably more appropriate 17:39:30 <TrueBrain> yeah, my english sucks from time to time :p 17:40:05 <Eddi|zuHause3> i still think it's a non-issue 17:41:22 *** Mucht [~Mucht@p57A0DC44.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:43:05 *** Bjarni [~Bjarni@0x50a4167e.virnxx14.adsl-dhcp.tele.dk] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:44:24 <Tekky> Sorry, I was afk. I am reading now..... 17:44:27 *** SmatZ [~smatz@a40-prg1-5-107.static.adsl.vol.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:44:35 <TrueBrain> Wow, it can read! :p :p :p 17:44:45 <TrueBrain> how does it feel? 17:45:01 *** MUcht [~Mucht@p57A0C93F.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 17:46:35 *** SmatZ [~smatz@a40-prg1-5-107.static.adsl.vol.cz] has joined #openttd 17:48:48 *** Mucht_ [~Mucht@p57A0E3E7.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:49:00 *** Bjarni [~Bjarni@0x50a4167e.virnxx14.adsl-dhcp.tele.dk] has joined #openttd 17:49:02 *** mode/#openttd [+o Bjarni] by ChanServ 17:51:28 <Noldo> what kind of pbs system ttdpatch has? 17:51:41 <Tekky> I think that I will not offer any support for TTDPatch PBS signals, because my PBS is completely different and they therefore wouldn't be compatible anyway. 17:52:23 <DaleStan> What do you mean by "what kind"? 17:52:46 <Noldo> blaah, I will google 17:52:50 <Tekky> http://uwe.s2000.ws/ttdx/signal.html#path 17:53:25 <Tekky> this is a good explanation of signals in TTDPatch, also including PBS signals. 17:53:40 <Noldo> thanks Tekky 17:55:07 <TrueBrain> Tekky, I like that name 17:55:18 <TrueBrain> it sounds cool :) 17:56:23 <Tekky> hehe, I used the nick "TekBoy" when I was 16 years old :) But now that I am 28 I renamed myself to "Tekky", because the suffix "Boy" is no longer appropriate for a 28 year old :) 17:57:01 <TrueBrain> so TekOld should be better :p 17:57:34 <Tekky> well, I could have called myself TekMan, but that sounds too much like SpiderMan, BatMan, SuperMan, etc.... 17:57:53 <Tekky> so I just called myself Tekky :) 17:59:00 <TrueBrain> I like the name :) 17:59:38 <Noldo> TrueBrain: say something about this http://bugs.openttd.org/task/1149 17:59:57 <TrueBrain> boo 18:00:21 <Tekky> Noldo: My PBS system will be completely different, though. My system will only have signals in front of intersections and not after intersections. This is because in my system, as in reality, signals are only placed in locations where trains are allowed to wait. And since trains are never supposed to wait inside an intersection, signals are only placed BEFORE intersections in my system, as in 18:00:36 <Noldo> Tekky: I know, I know 18:00:37 <Tekky> reality. Also, my signals will show red by default and will only show green when a train has reserved a path past the signal. 18:01:04 <Noldo> TrueBrain: thanks 18:01:39 <TrueBrain> Noldo: does it help? 18:03:49 <Tekky> The main thing I am currently thinking about now is whether I should still offer support for pre- and exit signal setups. These will be mostly redundant in my new PBS system, but maybe I should support them anyway for backward compatibility. 18:04:11 <TrueBrain> you should :) 18:04:20 <Noldo> TrueBrain: no, but having set the request the way I did I'm forced to be content with it 18:04:21 <TrueBrain> a bit nasty to make it impossible to load OpenTTD savegames from before your ocmmit ;) 18:04:42 <TrueBrain> Noldo: yup :p 18:05:07 <Tekky> well, the savegames will still work, just the presignals will behave like normal PBS signals :) 18:05:38 <Eddi|zuHause3> Tekky: you should definitely have a switch (patch setting?) to say signals should behave exactly like before (TTD+presignals) 18:05:42 <Noldo> remainds me of the fact that there are two ways to ask "How many..." in finnish 18:06:36 <blathijs> Tekky: It sounds like you're taking a sensible and realisic approach to signaling, nice :-) 18:06:48 *** skidd13 [~skidd13@p548A561E.dip.t-dialin.net] has left #openttd [] 18:06:55 <Eddi|zuHause3> also you could have slightly different semantics for those signals 18:08:30 <Eddi|zuHause3> i also like the signalling... it will need a little getting used to, and change of building style... 18:08:56 <Tekky> Eddi: This will be not easy to make presignals behave the same way as before, because block and path signalling aren't very compatible. However, I am thinking about whether I should treat presignals in such a way that trains which pass the presignal must also reserve a route past the next exit signal. This won't be exactly the same behavior as current OpenTTD behavior, however I think 18:08:56 *** MrBrrr [~chatzilla@bas3-montreal02-1096682116.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #openttd 18:09:07 <Tekky> that all current track will be compatible with this system. 18:09:16 <MrBrrr> Hazzah! 18:09:32 <TrueBrain> waaasssuuuupppppp 18:10:03 <Noldo> Tekky: doesn't that just mean that pre-exits are ignored? 18:11:30 <Tekky> no, normally trains must reserve a route TO the next signal in order to pass a signal. In my last post, I proposed that trains passing a presignal must reserve a route PAST the next exit signal. 18:11:59 <Tekky> or at least past the next signal, whether it is an exit signal or not. 18:12:26 <Noldo> but if you just treat exit signals as normal rail won't that make the train reserve track to the next signal on the way 18:12:54 <Tekky> blathijs: Yes, I have spent many months thinking about my PBS system and finding a good design. 18:13:21 <Eddi|zuHause3> i like that idea :) 18:13:36 <blathijs> Tekky: Did you write it down somewhere? 18:14:03 <MrBrrr> lol 18:14:13 <Tekky> blathijs: http://wiki.openttd.org/index.php/Realistic_PBS 18:14:19 <svip> :O I read that. 18:14:22 <svip> I didn't understand a bit. 18:14:24 <svip> But I read it. 18:14:25 <Eddi|zuHause3> Tekky: what i find most disturbing about silently upgrading would be the ability to open up one-way routes for 2-way travel 18:15:06 <Noldo> maybe the tekky-one-ways should be special signals 18:15:31 <Eddi|zuHause3> needs more map bits... 18:15:33 <Noldo> I feel that there will be a need for both kinds of one-ways anyway 18:15:45 <valhallasw> realistic PBS cannot just be used with existing games, no 18:15:52 <valhallasw> could be used as a patch setting though 18:15:54 <svip> Obviously. 18:16:11 <Eddi|zuHause3> that's what i was saying... it should be toggleable 18:16:22 <svip> Eddi|zuHause3 is always so wise. 18:16:24 <Noldo> where did Hacky find the space for the pbs signal ? 18:16:34 <Noldo> svip: no he isn't 18:16:46 <svip> :/ Noldo can't see sarcasm when it hits him in the face. 18:16:58 <Noldo> svip: no I can't 18:17:06 <svip> O_O Haha. 18:17:09 * svip escapes. 18:17:12 <Noldo> :) 18:17:14 <Eddi|zuHause3> Noldo: there was once an additional map bit available, but afaik that has been occupied by newstations since 18:17:44 <Tekky> yes, I have already decided that there should be two kinds of single signals: 1. single signals with the current OpenTTD graphics 2. single signals with a one-way sign on the other side. 18:17:54 <Eddi|zuHause3> but that was a different kind of map bit... might not be related 18:18:53 <Noldo> hmm, could we reuse the pre-signal space with not too much work 18:18:59 <DaleStan> Tekky: Why should I not pack trains into this a junction when the trains don't have a choice of which exit they take? 18:19:26 <DaleStan> *-this 18:19:33 <MrBrrr> Should everything be toggleable? 18:20:14 <Eddi|zuHause3> Tekky: there was the idea of upgrading from tile-based signals to edge-based signals at the same time as introducing PBS, have you considered that? 18:20:42 <Noldo> I would like edge-based signals very much 18:20:56 <Tekky> Noldo: In your message " but if you just treat exit signals as normal rail won't that make the train reserve track to the next signal on the way", what do you mean with exit signals? Signals after an intersection in general, or specifically exit signals in a pre- and exit signal setup? 18:21:18 <Noldo> specifically exit signals 18:21:54 <Eddi|zuHause3> Noldo: he said treat exit signals like normal signals, not normal rail 18:23:15 <Tekky> DaleStan: I don't understand what you mean when you talk about "packing" trains into junctions? 18:24:31 <DaleStan> You say that "trains should never wait in junctions". I say that when the train has exactly one choice of path through the junction, it should enter the junction anyway. 18:24:55 <DaleStan> That is, regardless of whether its desired exit is free. 18:26:16 <Noldo> in tekky's system that would mean it will crash with something 18:26:37 <eggburt> if it enters then it could block something else :o 18:26:38 <MrBrrr> In any sensible system it would mean crashes x_x 18:26:59 <Tekky> Eddi: Well, I don't think that is very important for my PBS system to whether signals are in the middle or on the edges of tiles. The main reason for signals being on the edges of tiles is that it would allow more efficient track layouts with the current (non-PBS) signalling system. 18:27:35 <Tekky> sorry, correction, I had a word too much: 18:27:51 <Tekky> Eddi: Well, I don't think that is very important for my PBS system whether signals are in the middle or on the edges of tiles. The main reason for signals being on the edges of tiles is that it would allow more efficient track layouts with the current (non-PBS) signalling system. 18:27:59 <DaleStan> <Noldo> in tekky's system that would mean it will crash with something< -- which is why I want signals on both sides of my junctions. 18:28:25 <Noldo> DaleStan: but it's a completely different paradigm 18:28:48 <DaleStan> Why? 18:29:30 <Noldo> in tekky's system you put signals only in places that trains can safely wait 18:29:40 <DaleStan> But the train can safely wait there. 18:29:47 <blathijs> Tekky: I think that you should not worry too much about how to handle presignals with PBS 18:30:21 <blathijs> Tekky: In particular, I think you need to implement this without removing the old signalling style 18:30:27 <Noldo> DaleStan: you need to draw a picture now 18:30:32 <Tekky> DaleStan: How do you define a junction? Is a track split a junction? 18:30:59 <blathijs> Tekky: But I also think that in any given game, either one of the signalling styles should be used 18:31:06 <blathijs> not both at the same time 18:31:17 <blathijs> So either all signals are old style or all signals are pbs 18:31:27 <blathijs> perhaps that could be a per-player setting, though 18:31:46 <DaleStan> It's a dual-track load balancer, plus a split and a depot. 18:32:00 <Tekky> With a track split or a track merge, there is no need to prevent a train waiting on top of the switch. However, if there are multiple entry tracks and multiple exit tracks (which I call a junction), then no trains should wait in the intersection area, I think. 18:34:35 <Noldo> DaleStan: ok, now I get it, yes trains can safely wait in a track merge with just one exit 18:34:43 <DaleStan> There are two entrances, three exits, and a depot. But no train may have a choice. The paths are selected to be non-conflicting. 18:36:09 <blathijs> What do you mean by "no train may have a choice" ? 18:36:29 <blathijs> Every exit leads somewhere else, so every train will pick exactly one exit 18:36:29 <blathijs> ? 18:37:00 <Tekky> The old OpenTTD PBS implementation uses block signalling and only inside PBS blocks it uses path-based signalling. However, I plan to get rid of block signalling altogether and only use path-based signalling. Therefore, all signals in my system will be PBS signals and not block signals. However, I could try to make existing track layouts work, despite them being based on block signals and 18:37:05 <Tekky> pre- and exit signals. 18:37:29 <DaleStan> Approximately. Two of the exits lead the same place, but no train passing through may switch tracks unless a train is exiting the depot. 18:38:04 <blathijs> Tekky: I think you will not get away with completely replacing the block signalling code by path signalling code 18:38:38 <DaleStan> Beyond that, the entrance location and the current order specify exactly one valid path through the junction. 18:38:58 <blathijs> Tekky: IOW, when you start a game, you should select either path based or block based signalling 18:39:33 <DaleStan> And as soon as I find my users password, I'll post a shot of the junction. 18:39:53 <blathijs> Tekky: So, you would only need to have some kind of converting tool, which tries to convert an existing block based game to a path based game (but that is a one shot conversion) 18:40:24 <blathijs> DaleStan: I don't think the signalling should or can take into account such things (basing itself on orders) 18:40:58 <DaleStan> Oh, so trains should just go somewhere randomly? 18:41:17 <Noldo> DaleStan: I know what you mean 18:41:45 <Tekky> blathijs: I think that it will not do any harm to upgrade standard block signals to PBS signals, provided that single signals continue to be considered one-way in my system (i.e. a no-entry sign is put on the other side). The only problem I see is that I must also implement pre- and exit PBS signals for all existing track layouts to work. 18:42:13 <Noldo> DaleStan: but it can be built so that it's actually just two different 2 to 1 merges 18:42:14 <DaleStan> Trains have a target. That target is specified by the order. Therefore, the pathfinding, and, for PBS, the signalling, must obey the orders. 18:42:34 <DaleStan> Noldo: Not without using space I don't have. 18:43:29 <Noldo> DaleStan: show the picture 18:44:58 <Tekky> blathijs: No, there should be no need for a conversion tool. A single signal will just look different when my patch is active (it will have a no-entry sign on the other side). However, the binary representation (mapbits or whatever) will be the same in my patch. However, I will need a few additional mapbits. 18:45:36 <Tekky> I will need an additional mapbit in order to store whether a single signal is one or two way. 18:45:58 <DaleStan> http://img339.imageshack.us/my.php?image=scr2mz0.png 18:48:06 <DaleStan> The meaning of the purple dot, for most purposes, is that trains may not go under the bridge unless they entered from the north entrance. 18:48:16 <Noldo> DaleStan: a train coming from the depot going to the right track can't safely wait without blocking the other track 18:48:39 <Noldo> but the left track is ok to wait 18:49:01 <DaleStan> That can't happen. Trains out of the depot are prevented from going under the bridge. 18:49:11 <blathijs> Tekky: So, you want to support block based and path based signalling in the same game? 18:49:22 <Noldo> DaleStan: how? 18:49:36 <DaleStan> See the purple dot? That says means the signal is restricted. 18:49:52 <blathijs> anyhow, /me is off 18:50:10 <DaleStan> The restriction is, in part, "trains from the depot may not pass this signal". 18:51:44 <Noldo> wehee 18:52:12 <Tekky> blathijs: I plan to support current OpenTTD track configurations, however, they will be using path-based signalling instead of block signalling. 18:52:28 <svip> I'm back. 18:52:32 <svip> Did you not miss me? 18:52:43 <DaleStan> Or, more accurately, "The pathfinder cannot find a path from the depot past this signal". If a train ended up there anyway, it would still pass. 18:52:55 <Bjarni> <svip> Did you not miss me? <--- no we didn't 18:52:55 <Tekky> blathijs: The signals will be the same, however, internally, they will work completely differently. 18:52:57 <Bjarni> you left? 18:53:02 <svip> Exactly. 18:53:04 <Prof_Frink> svip: Is half of your face gone? 18:53:07 <svip> You are typical Danish. 18:53:16 <svip> Rude. 18:53:19 <Bjarni> I do my best 18:53:19 <svip> Sorry, Prof_Frink, no. 18:53:26 <Prof_Frink> Then yes, I missed you 18:53:34 <svip> :P 18:53:39 <svip> I did ask with a not. 18:53:43 <TrueBrain> svip: you get one free ticket to kick someone at your choice :p 18:53:46 <svip> To make your answer more confusing! 18:53:55 <svip> No thanks. 18:53:59 <svip> All people are lovable in here. 18:54:05 <TrueBrain> even Bjarni?! 18:54:08 <Bjarni> everybody? 18:54:08 <svip> Yes. 18:54:14 <svip> He has that Danish mystic about him. 18:54:18 <blathijs> Tekky: So the signals will look the same, but they will have (slightly) different semantics 18:54:32 <Bjarni> looks like svip is gay 18:54:36 <svip> :/ No. 18:54:41 <svip> I am hot for Estonians. 18:54:45 <svip> Though. 18:54:59 <Tekky> blathijs: I will not mix block- and path-based signalling, because they are not very compatible. I only plan to make existing signal layouts work as path-based signals. 18:55:07 <redmonkey> updated: http://bugs.openttd.org/task/1191 :) 18:55:08 *** Purno [~Purno@5357D37C.cable.casema.nl] has joined #openttd 18:55:16 <Bjarni> what's so special about Estonians? 18:55:19 <svip> Ugh. 18:55:21 <Noldo> TrueBrain: I woudn't mind terribly if by some accident you happened to say something usefull about FS1149 18:55:23 <svip> They speak Estonian? 18:55:25 <TrueBrain> redmonkey: we can read in #openttd.notice, no need to say it here 18:55:27 <blathijs> Tekky: I think you also plan to fully support block signalling, ie don't enable PBS at all? 18:55:40 <TrueBrain> Noldo: won't happen in this month 18:55:56 <blathijs> Tekky: If you're not going to mix them, I would propose a onetime conversion when PBS is enabled 18:55:56 <redmonkey> TrueBrain: alright 18:56:21 <blathijs> Tekky: AFAICS, presignals completely lose their value with path based signalling 18:56:32 <Tekky> blathijs: Yes, the signals will look the same, except that signal signals will get a one-way sign on the other side with my patch, by default. This one-way sign can be removed then to allow bi-directional traffic. 18:56:46 <blathijs> so, when PBS is enabled, you should convert them to some comparable layout of normal signals with PBS 18:57:14 <Tekky> blathijs: Yes, presignals will be redundant to a large extent when PBS signals exist, except for special things like priority lines. 18:57:29 <Bjarni> Tekky: do you have a written "plot" for your PBS plans? 18:57:37 <Bjarni> like what should the signals be able to do and how should they do it 18:57:47 <blathijs> 20:14 < Tekky> blathijs: http://wiki.openttd.org/index.php/Realistic_PBS 18:58:07 <Bjarni> oh sorry 18:58:11 <Bjarni> missed that one :( 18:58:55 <blathijs> Tekky: I would propose to reuse the presignal bit combinations when PBS is enabled, so you won't need an extra bit 18:59:05 <Tekky> yes, however, in that wiki article, I mainly talk about bi-directional double track. But this requires "weak" reservations and "unsafe" signals, which I don't plan to support in my first PBS release. 18:59:16 <blathijs> but, I'm really off to watch a movie now, but I'll read back later tonight :-) 18:59:31 <TrueBrain> have fun blathijs :) 18:59:42 <Bjarni> bye blathijs 18:59:51 <TrueBrain> I watch moving while waiting for gf, while IRCing... 18:59:52 <TrueBrain> how nice :p 18:59:57 <TrueBrain> moving = movie 19:00:27 <Tekky> bye blathijs. 19:00:34 <svip> So... 19:00:38 <Noldo> moving as in moving picture 19:00:45 <svip> How about a new disaster in the game? POWER CUT. 19:00:53 <Bjarni> no way 19:00:57 <Bjarni> I tried that in real life 19:01:00 <Bjarni> no fun :( 19:01:00 <svip> o_o All your trains that run on electricity fail. 19:01:14 <Bjarni> svip: inspired by DSB? 19:01:20 <svip> Well, kinda. 19:01:25 <svip> But eggburt also suggested it. 19:01:31 <Bjarni> well, it was actually BaneDanmark, who screwed up yesterday 19:01:38 <Bjarni> hmm 19:01:46 <svip> o_o Did you hear about the stuff at NÞrrebro? 19:01:47 <Bjarni> maybe not screwed up, but became really unlucky 19:01:57 <svip> Or on NÞrrebro? 19:02:01 <Bjarni> I did 19:02:02 <svip> I don't know how it works in English. 19:02:16 <svip> o_o It was crazy. 19:02:22 <Bjarni> yeah 19:02:26 <svip> My brother says it was worse than last time. 19:02:27 <Bjarni> as usual with those people 19:02:35 <mcbane> could it be that internet refresh dont work? 19:02:45 <svip> What? 19:02:47 <MrBrrr> Well, how about needing a supplied Power Station for electrified rails to work? 19:02:55 <mcbane> i created a server and my friend dont find ti 19:03:02 <svip> Would make sense, MrBrrr. 19:03:06 <svip> Now wouldn't it? 19:03:15 <Bjarni> mcbane: did you advertise it? 19:03:21 <MrBrrr> Well, since someone's suggestin :) 19:03:24 <svip> :o 19:03:33 <svip> Well, with an IP or domain name? 19:03:34 <Bjarni> mcbane: try to make your friend join your IP 19:03:47 *** |Jeroen| [~jeroen@d51A43614.access.telenet.be] has quit [Quit: oO] 19:03:50 <svip> o_O Oh that kind of server. 19:03:55 <mcbane> i used internet (dvertise) 19:04:07 <Bjarni> <svip> My brother says it was worse than last time. <--- I hate to ask, but.... why was your brother present at a riot? 19:04:20 <svip> He was at his girlfriend's birthday party. 19:04:26 <svip> And she lives just were it was worse. 19:04:40 <svip> So he wasn't in the riot. 19:04:44 <svip> But close enough. 19:05:02 <MrBrrr> Riot? About what? 19:05:15 *** NukeBuster [~opera@a62-251-21-79.adsl.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 19:05:17 <Bjarni> about not being allowed to take over a building owned by somebody else 19:05:23 *** MarkSlap [~shit@h232n3c1o1114.bredband.skanova.com] has joined #openttd 19:05:32 <MrBrrr> Oh that. 19:05:50 <Bjarni> they tried to burn down the city again last night 19:06:10 <MrBrrr> The entire city? Oh dear. 19:06:11 <svip> o_o 19:06:18 <svip> I thought they were celebrating the Copenhagen Bombing. 19:06:25 <MrBrrr> Maybe they did both. 19:06:38 <svip> You know about the Copenhagen Bombings? 19:06:45 <svip> But you're Canadian! 19:06:45 <Bjarni> yes 19:07:14 <svip> Bjarni: I thought other people didn't care about us! 19:07:16 <Bjarni> <MrBrrr> The entire city? Oh dear. <--- well, maybe not the entire city, but they started more than 20 fires 19:07:36 <Bjarni> svip: well... he is Canadian... they are always different 19:07:41 <MrBrrr> And that means what svip? 19:07:59 <Bjarni> it means that US citizens never realise what happens here 19:08:12 <MrBrrr> Canadians are not americans, geez :P 19:08:21 <svip> :o 19:08:25 <Bjarni> that's what I just said :) 19:08:28 <svip> I know you have geography in school. 19:08:33 <Bjarni> Canadians are different 19:08:35 <MrBrrr> When your neighbor is like a frat party gone wrong, you look elsewhere :) 19:08:40 <svip> But do you have to care about us Danes? 19:08:45 <svip> Wait, MrBrrr. 19:08:47 <Bjarni> yeah 19:08:52 <svip> Why is your English not Canadian English? 19:09:01 <svip> You are not Canadian! >:O I knew it! 19:09:06 <Bjarni> Canada is trying to steal our island so they have to story their enemy :P 19:09:15 <svip> Apparently. 19:09:21 <svip> But MrBrrr's cover has been blown. 19:09:25 <svip> He is obviously an American. 19:09:34 <MrBrrr> My word... Conspiracy theorists hard at work :P 19:09:34 <Bjarni> :( 19:09:41 <svip> :( 19:09:46 <svip> I saw him using American English. 19:09:47 <peter1138> Well, Canada is in (North) America 19:10:05 <svip> You know what I mean, Peter Paul Mary. 19:10:12 <MrBrrr> Kanada sounds nicer anyway. 19:10:13 <MrBrrr> :P 19:10:17 <Bjarni> American English is still corrupted English and should still be avoided 19:10:24 <MrBrrr> True. 19:10:24 <svip> It is not Kanada in Danish any more. :( 19:10:29 <peter1138> New Zero Kanada 19:10:37 <MrBrrr> Hazzah! 19:10:38 <svip> o_o 19:10:40 <svip> But, Bjarni. 19:10:45 <svip> It is still Kanada in Estonian. 19:10:55 <svip> Just as Denmark is called Taani in Estonian. 19:10:58 <Bjarni> what is it with you and Estonia? 19:11:03 <svip> :( 19:11:09 <svip> I might know in half a year. 19:11:19 <svip> :O I am going to Estonia this Christmas. 19:11:26 <Bjarni> undercover? 19:11:31 <eggburt> exotic 19:11:32 <svip> Of course not. 19:11:37 <svip> To meet a female. 19:11:48 <MrBrrr> How are females in Estonia? 19:11:59 <Bjarni> sounds like James Bond.... travelling to former USSR to meet a woman 19:12:02 <svip> o_o Dunno, but they claim to be better than the Swedish. 19:12:11 <svip> It is not Estonia SSR any more. 19:12:23 <Bjarni> I said former 19:12:27 <svip> Yeah yeah. 19:12:35 <svip> But just like you don't talk to Tekky about the war. 19:12:42 <MrBrrr> Better in what way? 19:12:49 <Prof_Frink> The name's Ip. Sv Ip. 19:13:00 <svip> :P 19:13:04 <svip> MrBrrr: Dunno. 19:13:17 <svip> That's why I am going to be more knowledgeable 19:13:25 * Bjarni wonders why svip fails to find a Danish woman 19:13:27 <svip> I'll report. 19:13:31 <Bjarni> there are plenty of them 19:13:33 <svip> >:O Yeah. 19:13:39 <svip> But they speak Danish too. 19:13:53 <svip> o_o And besides. 19:14:04 <svip> It is more exotic being Estonian. 19:14:09 <Bjarni> you make it sound like it's bad to be able to speak Danish o_O 19:14:14 <svip> O_o No. 19:14:16 <MrBrrr> I'll be waiting to be briefed when you get back. 19:14:21 <svip> It's just that... then they understand me. 19:14:31 <Bjarni> MrBrrr: don't hold your breath 19:14:32 <peter1138> BEER BEER BEER, we're going for a bee-eer 19:14:36 <svip> Indeed, Bjarni. 19:14:43 <svip> As it is only after Christmas. 19:15:02 <Prof_Frink> peter1138! newbeers! 19:15:11 <svip> :o 19:15:13 <svip> Yeah. 19:15:19 <svip> Why isn't there beer in OpenTTD? 19:15:32 <Bjarni> <svip> It's just that... then they understand me. <--- you mean you talk garbage to females? 19:15:39 <peter1138> There is with certain NewGRFs 19:15:39 <svip> :| 19:15:45 <svip> No, that doesn't make it interesting, Bjarni. 19:15:54 <svip> :( Will you stop teasing me? 19:15:55 <svip> ;-; 19:16:20 <Prof_Frink> No. 19:16:28 <Bjarni> I really don't get why it should be so interesting to go that far to meet women with a language barrier :s 19:16:38 <svip> Estonia isn't far away. 19:16:41 <svip> Pfft, Bjarni. 19:16:43 <svip> I love languages. 19:16:45 <svip> So does she. 19:16:49 <Bjarni> it is in the language 19:16:50 <Prof_Frink> Oh aye? 19:17:04 <svip> Have you created your own artificial language, PERHAPS? 19:17:08 <MrBrrr> lol 19:17:11 <Prof_Frink> Bjarni: He told her he was a cunning linguist. 19:17:21 <svip> Never. 19:17:23 <svip> I don't lie. 19:17:31 <svip> Well... 19:17:34 <svip> Not about such. 19:17:40 <Prof_Frink> svip: lies. 19:17:47 <svip> :P 19:18:03 <svip> I told her I was an amateur linguist. 19:18:10 <Bjarni> svip: do you always lie? 19:18:15 <svip> And besides, she is studying finno-uric languages at the University of Tartu. 19:18:16 <Prof_Frink> ...But that doesn't make the joke. 19:19:06 <svip> That is a stupid question, Bjarni. 19:19:24 <svip> Cause I can only answer "no". 19:19:28 <svip> And that won't tell you anything. 19:19:33 <Bjarni> svip: you were supposed to say no, which would be a useless answer :/ 19:19:39 <Bjarni> yeah 19:19:40 <svip> Exactly. 19:19:46 <Bjarni> you noticed 19:19:49 <svip> I did. 19:19:56 <svip> Great Danes think alike. 19:20:02 <svip> And not talking about the dogs. 19:20:12 <svip> Anyone who laughs is a communist. 19:20:31 <Bjarni> damn 19:20:43 <Bjarni> looks like Prof_Frink is a communist :/ 19:20:50 <svip> Isn't that apparent? 19:20:51 <Prof_Frink> svip: Fools seldom differ. 19:21:00 <svip> Prof_Frink has a point though. 19:21:09 <svip> And it is also a problem if great minds think alike. 19:21:17 <svip> Cause then they don't come up with good ideas. 19:21:35 <Bjarni> I don't think 100% like you 19:21:38 <Bjarni> that's for sure 19:21:51 <Prof_Frink> Bjarni: s/think 100% // 19:22:38 <Bjarni> it would be really odd if you think just like me 19:22:45 <svip> Yes. 19:22:55 <svip> Especially since you aren't going to Estonia. 19:23:15 <Bjarni> that's a very good example of how we differ 19:23:23 <svip> Exactly. 19:23:27 <Bjarni> I still don't get why you are into that Estonia trip 19:23:45 <svip> Pfft. 19:23:56 <svip> I was in Canada, France and the Netherlands this summer as well. 19:24:04 <Bjarni> maybe you are going to buy and import a future wife or something 19:24:09 <Sacro> wife/. 19:24:09 <Bjarni> or maybe she thinks so 19:24:11 <Sacro> ? 19:24:18 <svip> I hope, Bjarni. 19:24:20 <svip> But you know... 19:24:28 <svip> A man can dream though, a man can dream. 19:24:39 <Bjarni> be careful 19:24:40 <svip> -- Professor Farnsworth 19:25:03 <Bjarni> such marriages are usually investigated by the mafia and that's no fun 19:25:12 <svip> The Estonian mafia? 19:25:16 <svip> You've got to be kidding me. 19:25:22 <svip> There are only 1.3 million Estonians. 19:25:23 <Bjarni> nope 19:25:35 <Prof_Frink> The 'ull mafia. 19:25:59 <Bjarni> it takes less than 50 people to create a really nasty mafia 19:26:27 <svip> Pfft. 19:26:29 <svip> o____o 19:26:43 <svip> Also. 19:26:51 <svip> I didn't read that you said "buy and import". 19:27:14 <Bjarni> well, the fact is that they find people from the Baltic countries, who moved to the west and blackmail them to get money from the west or something nasty will happen to the family left behind 19:27:19 <Bjarni> it happened several times 19:28:06 <mcbane> i was in sweden and norway this year =P 19:28:16 <Bjarni> I'm sorry 19:28:26 <Bjarni> must have been hard on you 19:28:33 <mcbane> heh in not danish, 19:29:23 <Bjarni> well, there is one good thing about Sweden compared to Denmark 19:29:29 <Bjarni> they have a better view 19:30:25 <Bjarni> anyway what were you doing there? 19:31:13 <mcbane> why do they have a better view? on what 19:31:38 <Bjarni> whenever I look at the water, Sweden is on the other side 19:31:49 <Bjarni> go figure out the rest 19:33:02 * mcbane laughs. 19:33:37 <Bjarni> but it's not entirely a joke 19:34:52 <Bjarni> take the ferry between Sweden and Denmark. On the Swedish side, it's full of big tanks (fuel?/chemical plant or something) and on the Danish side, we have Kronborg and a town with a waterside front with buildings dating back 2-300 years 19:35:06 <Bjarni> that's 200-300, not 2 years to 300 years ;) 19:35:34 <mcbane> Helvete 19:35:37 <mcbane> =) 19:35:55 <Prof_Frink> Bjarni: The latter is also true 19:37:34 <Bjarni> heh 19:37:55 <Bjarni> http://www.kongper.dk/foto_stor/kronb1a.jpg <-- this is more or less the view from Sweden (a closeup though) 19:39:48 <MarkSlap> Hmm, why can't I remove some streets in a town when I'm "Exellent"? 19:39:57 <MarkSlap> (0.5.2) 19:40:25 <MarkSlap> Bjarni, that's a Danish site :p 19:40:33 <peter1138> You can only remove end pieces 19:40:49 <MarkSlap> And there is'nt any snow here now ^^ 19:40:52 <MarkSlap> peter1138, oh 19:41:03 <MarkSlap> Is it a new "function"? 19:41:17 <thingwath> and there is no railway at all, uh 19:41:24 <peter1138> Not that I'm aware of. There is a patch option to fiddle with. 19:41:32 <MarkSlap> Okey 19:41:33 <Bjarni> <MarkSlap> Bjarni, that's a Danish site :p <-- yes, but if you "step back" (wow, waterwalking) from where the picture is taken, you will end up in Sweden 19:41:41 <MarkSlap> Oh :D 19:41:51 <Bjarni> odds are that the photo is taken onboard a boat 19:42:02 <MarkSlap> Bjarni, I only read the last sentence 19:42:05 <MarkSlap> ^^ 19:42:59 <Bjarni> that's usually not enough to claim a whole point in a conversation as incorrect :P 19:43:13 <MarkSlap> Exactly :D 19:43:20 <Bjarni> or rather, the proof of the point 19:43:22 <MarkSlap> Bjarni, are you Danish? 19:43:30 <svip> :| 19:43:34 <Bjarni> ... 19:43:36 <svip> Isn't it apparent? 19:43:37 <MarkSlap> Hmm 19:43:43 <svip> Even his ident is Danish. 19:43:50 <Bjarni> not to Swedes, it seems :| 19:43:54 <MarkSlap> Didn't check that :D 19:43:55 <svip> :| Apparently not. 19:44:05 <svip> Crazy Swedes. 19:44:05 <MarkSlap> Oh :D 19:44:13 *** Mizipzor [Mizipzor@camembert.byh.bth.se] has joined #openttd 19:44:19 <svip> Ooooo another Swede. 19:44:23 <Bjarni> it's an invasion :o 19:44:29 <MarkSlap> I think you're a litlle hard on swedes right now :D 19:44:45 <svip> We are not the ones adding a's to every second word. 19:44:47 <MarkSlap> And I'm finnish :> 19:44:52 <MarkSlap> I know 19:45:03 <MarkSlap> But I'm tired and sucks a english for the moment 19:45:05 <svip> From the Swedish part of Finland, I presume? 19:45:11 *** TinoM [~Tino@i5387C32F.versanet.de] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 19:45:13 <MarkSlap> I dunno 19:45:18 <svip> You don't know? 19:45:20 <MarkSlap> Nopw 19:45:22 <MarkSlap> Nope* 19:45:28 <MarkSlap> I live in Sweden you see 19:45:29 <MarkSlap> :) 19:45:31 <svip> You just woke up one day and realised you live in Finland? 19:45:34 *** Purno [~Purno@5357D37C.cable.casema.nl] has quit [Quit: Always remember you're unique, just like everyone else.] 19:45:35 <MarkSlap> Haha 19:45:35 <MarkSlap> :D 19:45:42 <MarkSlap> Exactly 19:46:25 *** alex^_^ [~alexalex@78.86.117.217] has joined #openttd 19:47:08 <Bjarni> actually I don't think it's a "Swedish talking part" of Finland, more like some people speak Swedish and some speak Finnish and they are mixed (but most likely mainly near Sweden) 19:47:20 <Bjarni> it's not Swedish colonies in Finland 19:47:28 <svip> O_o 19:47:29 <svip> No. 19:47:37 <svip> There is a Swedish part of Finland. 19:47:39 <MarkSlap> My family comes from finland 19:47:48 <svip> Indeed, it is so great that Swedish is a second official language of Finland. 19:47:52 <MarkSlap> And I'm like, a quarter finnish(?) 19:47:57 <svip> And the national anthem has a Swedish version. 19:48:10 <MarkSlap> There is even swedish signs in Helsinki 19:48:19 <Bjarni> [21:44:47] <MarkSlap> And I'm finnish :> 19:48:19 <Bjarni> [21:47:51] <MarkSlap> And I'm like, a quarter finnish(?) 19:48:20 <ln-> and in many other major cities 19:48:24 <svip> MrBrrr and Belugas would inform you that the Canadian anthem has an English and a French version. 19:48:25 <MarkSlap> Bjarni, yeah 19:48:43 <MrBrrr> True that. 19:48:49 <MarkSlap> I think i'm gonna shut up right now 19:49:00 <svip> Don't worry, MarkSlap. 19:49:03 *** redmonkey [~redmonkey@p54A073BF.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: quit] 19:49:06 <svip> Finland and Canada aren't at war. 19:49:09 <MarkSlap> :) 19:49:14 <MrBrrr> How does everyone feel with the loading times? 19:49:21 <MarkSlap> Good for them! ^^ 19:49:21 <svip> What loading times? 19:49:21 <ln-> Bjarni: there are certain areas where >50% of people speak swedish. 19:49:29 <MrBrrr> I mean, should I build a 20 square long station for my 20 wagons long train? 19:49:33 <MarkSlap> No 19:49:34 <ln-> Bjarni: even areas where 90% of people speak swedish. 19:49:39 <MrBrrr> Seems like an odd sort of thing to do. 19:49:53 <svip> A waggon doesn't fill an entire square, MrBrrr. 19:50:01 <MarkSlap> MrBrrr, 10 square long station = 20 wagons long train 19:50:01 <Bjarni> ln-: is that parts of towns or whole areas? 19:50:09 <MrBrrr> I mean square-long. 19:50:21 <MrBrrr> ie: 39 wagons + one engine 19:50:25 <svip> A 20 square-long train. 19:50:29 *** Mucht_ [~Mucht@p57A0C999.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 19:50:30 <svip> O_O 19:50:32 <ln-> Bjarni: areas on the coasts. 19:50:38 <MrBrrr> Well, yar. 19:50:39 <MarkSlap> If you don't have a doubletrain 19:50:40 <ln-> consisting of several towns 19:50:58 <Bjarni> like Turku? 19:51:19 <MarkSlap> ln-, in à land there are'nt many people who speaks finnish 19:51:39 <ln-> bjarni: not really, but take the car and drive 30 km towards the archipelago and it gets a lot more swedish 19:51:54 <MarkSlap> What is a archipelago? 19:52:00 <ln-> MarkSlap: à land is an exception. 19:52:03 <Bjarni> a lot of small islands 19:52:08 <Bjarni> @ MarkSlap 19:52:15 <MarkSlap> ln-, mhm :) 19:52:17 <ln-> MarkSlap: skÀrgÃ¥rd 19:52:17 <MarkSlap> Bjarni, oh 19:52:18 <MarkSlap> :D 19:52:30 <MarkSlap> ln-, ah, sÃ¥pass :) 19:52:37 <MarkSlap> Thanks ^^ 19:52:47 <MarkSlap> Now I'm gonna play again 19:53:42 <ln-> Bjarni: but the especially swedishistic areas are on the western coast, both south and north of Vaasa. 19:53:57 <Bjarni> MrBrrr: the odd part about loading times, train stations and train lengths aren't when you can fit a train in the station (it's perfectly fine if you can). It's more like if you can't 19:54:18 *** MUcht [~Mucht@p57A0C93F.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:54:48 <MrBrrr> Hmmm. 19:54:48 <Bjarni> like it's realistic that it takes many times as long to unload if a passenger train with an engine in both ends sticks the rear engine out of the platform... 19:55:26 <MrBrrr> What's the largest station one can build ? (7 square long?) 19:55:33 <Bjarni> I can tell you this much: in real life, loading times are reduced if you decide to place the engine outside the platform instead of the cars 19:55:52 <MrBrrr> Makes sense. 19:55:53 <Prof_Frink> MrBrrr: As big as station spread allows 19:55:53 <Bjarni> there is no real limit other than the max station spread, which is a patch setting 19:56:11 <MrBrrr> Oh dear. 19:56:39 <Bjarni> set the station spread to 200 (and pray that your computer is fast enough to handle that... it's not likely) and build a single station covering the whole map 19:57:00 <MrBrrr> Well, that would be overdoing it. 19:57:11 <ln-> Bjarni: i ett litet kommun, NÀrpes, Àr dialekten sÃ¥ konstig att varken finnar eller svenskar förstÃ¥r den, och den Àr nÀrmare till arkaisk norge Àn svenska, sÀger nÃ¥gra. 19:57:27 <SmatZ> Bjarni: why will it slow down the computer? except the AI 19:57:35 <Bjarni> most likely you will not need more than 51 tiles as no train can be longer than 101 units, or 50,5 tiles 19:58:05 <Bjarni> SmatZ: the bigger the station spread is, the more CPU time it takes to calculate stuff for each station 19:58:22 <Bjarni> ln-: hehe 19:58:37 <SmatZ> Bjarni: when I have big stations and lower station spred to, say, 4, will it be faster? 19:58:57 <Bjarni> SmatZ: and the CPU load increases experientially with the station spread setting 19:59:18 <Bjarni> hmm 19:59:22 <Bjarni> good question 19:59:46 <ln-> Bjarni: btw, if i had said that sentence to you aloud (as opposed to writing), would you have understood a word of it? 20:00:01 <SmatZ> Bjarni: I think there was some problem with AI, that with higher spread it went very slow... so I though that when this was solved, the spred doesn't slow down the game 20:00:12 <Bjarni> ln-: most likely 20:00:47 * Bjarni has more Swedish than Danish TV channels 20:01:01 <ln-> Bjarni: also remember that i don't speak rikssvenska and especially not skÃ¥ne-style svenska, but this a little different-sounding finlandssvenska. 20:01:04 <Bjarni> it happens that I watch Swedish TV.... 20:03:19 <Bjarni> ln-: actually rikssvenska is easier to understand than anything from SkÃ¥ne (odd, but true). However I guess you speak with a "melody" kind of like Finnish and that wouldn't stop me from understanding it 20:10:42 <peter1138> i've never noticed high station spread to slow anything down 20:11:07 <Bjarni> well 20:11:21 <Bjarni> the text contains a warning against high numbers 20:11:51 <Bjarni> and I think I had a severe slowdown once, but that was likely when I used a computer that was noteworthy slower than everybody else 20:21:40 <svip> Is it possible to get the distance to an industry? 20:21:51 <svip> By knowing where you are and having the industry? 20:22:53 <Bjarni> yes 20:23:03 <Bjarni> we have functions to find the distance between two tiles 20:23:03 <svip> :O 20:23:07 <svip> O_O 20:23:10 <svip> IN map.h? 20:23:12 *** skidd13 [~skidd13@p548A551D.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 20:23:14 <svip> Cause I can't find them in there. 20:23:16 <svip> Yay, skidd13. 20:23:19 <Bjarni> hmm 20:23:20 <skidd13> hi 20:23:25 <Bjarni> hi skidd13 20:23:43 *** Mucht_ [~Mucht@p57A0C999.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 20:23:45 <Bjarni> I can remember HOW they work, but not WHERE they are :/ 20:23:55 <svip> Then you must remember their name. 20:25:25 <svip> Alternatively, I can get the X and the Y of both tiles, and then compare them. 20:25:30 <svip> But I'd think a function already did that. 20:26:17 <Bjarni> src/map.h:uint DistanceManhattan(TileIndex, TileIndex); ///< also known as L1-Norm. Is the shortest distance one could go over diagonal tracks (or roads) <--- something like this? 20:26:27 <svip> :O 20:26:29 <svip> Manhattan? 20:26:43 <Bjarni> uint DistanceSquare(TileIndex, TileIndex); ///< euclidian- or L2-Norm squared 20:27:06 <svip> Well... 20:27:10 <svip> Which of them should I pick? 20:27:33 <Bjarni> Manhattan is build out of square blocks and a lot of parallel roads, so manhattan distance is the distance in manhattan following the roads 20:27:45 <Bjarni> the other one is the direct (fugleflugt) distance 20:27:54 <Bjarni> I think 20:27:54 <svip> ;o 20:28:34 <Bjarni> actually there are 5 different functions depending on what you need the result for 20:28:37 <Bjarni> go read them 20:29:11 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: miham * r11038 /trunk/src/lang/ (9 files): (log message trimmed) 20:29:11 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: -Update: WebTranslator2 update to 2007-09-02 22:28:19 20:29:11 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: brazilian_portuguese - 4 fixed by tucalipe (4) 20:29:11 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: bulgarian - 1 fixed by thetitan (1) 20:29:11 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: catalan - 4 fixed by arnaullv (4) 20:29:11 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: croatian - 6 fixed, 563 changed by knovak (569) 20:29:11 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: czech - 4 fixed by Hadez (4) 20:29:59 <svip> :O 20:30:12 <svip> Bjarni, how do I fill an array quickly? 20:30:22 <svip> With the same value. 20:30:32 <ln-> memset 20:30:39 <ln-> or what kind of arrays are we talking about 20:30:48 <svip> I have a CargoID array. 20:30:50 <ln-> and i'm not Bjarni, just for the record. 20:31:08 <svip> Which I want to fill with CT_INVALID 20:31:11 <svip> I know, ln-. 20:31:12 <svip> :| 20:32:06 <Rubidium> Tekky: have you thought about trains reversing? When there is no signal at the end of a junction, the train would go back onto the junction without even seeing a red signal. 20:33:31 <ln-> "shit happens" 20:36:16 <Bjarni> svip: memset is the way to go 20:36:18 <Bjarni> it's fast 20:36:21 <svip> Godo. 20:36:22 <svip> Good* 20:36:26 <svip> But how does it work? 20:36:46 <glx> as it should :) 20:36:47 <Rubidium> `man memset` 20:36:53 <svip> :P 20:36:59 <Bjarni> you give it a pointer to the first part of the array, the value you want, how many and the size of each block 20:37:13 <Bjarni> for details, do as Rubidium said 20:37:31 <Bjarni> make sure you always set all of them and NEVER TOO MANY 20:37:36 <ln-> Bjarni: no, only how many bytes, not block size. 20:37:54 <Bjarni> the last one is tricky to find if it happens because it will screw up something else 20:38:15 <Bjarni> ln-: it's the same in this case as CargoID is a byte 20:38:31 *** Greyscale [~greyscale@host86-141-103-186.range86-141.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 20:39:03 <ln-> Bjarni: memset always takes the number of bytes. 20:39:15 <svip> So like this: 20:39:20 <svip> CargoID cargo_list[MAX_CATCHMENT]; 20:39:20 <svip> memset(cargo_list, (int)CT_INVALID, MAX_CATCHMENT); 20:39:21 <svip> Huh? 20:40:10 <Bjarni> why do you typecast to int? 20:40:16 <svip> :O 20:40:22 <svip> Because it said int in the man page. 20:40:34 <Rubidium> and why do you make a list of size MAX_CATCHMENT? 20:40:47 <Bjarni> wouldn't it be logical to typecast to byte since you are dealing with bytes? 20:40:56 <svip> Perhaps. 20:41:04 <Bjarni> and that is another good question :) 20:41:05 <ln-> svip: do not typecast that way, you can easily cast anything to anything, even if it doesn't make any sense. 20:41:17 <svip> Okay... 20:42:00 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: rubidium * r11039 /trunk/src/ (economy.cpp graph_gui.cpp): -Fix [FS#1191]: underflow that caused overflows in the performance rating calculation. 20:43:06 <svip> :D Bjarni 20:43:14 <svip> http://www.isarapix.com/pix97/1188765784.png 20:43:17 <svip> Acceptance. 20:43:40 <Bjarni> nice 20:44:04 <svip> Sadly, I can't overlap. 20:44:09 <svip> So I just pick what is closest. 20:44:09 <Rubidium> svip: why MAX_CATCHMENT? 20:44:16 <svip> Cause that is the area I search in. 20:44:34 <peter1138> can you not add it up as you go along? 20:44:34 <Rubidium> MAX_CATCHMENT defines the radius 20:44:41 <svip> Indeed. 20:45:08 <Rubidium> furthermore tiles can accept multiple cargo types 20:45:14 <svip> So I put them in the list by their destination to the industry. 20:45:21 <svip> And then afterwards I can pick which is closest. 20:46:19 <svip> Here is the source. 20:46:26 <svip> http://pastebin.ca/679258 20:48:07 <svip> Yeah. 20:48:30 <Bjarni> svip: actually when I talked about making an overlay of accepted cargo, I was thinking about selecting one cargo type only and then have a bool for each tile to see if I could deliver that particular cargo to the tile in question 20:49:15 <svip> Well... 20:49:15 *** thomas [~thomas@p57B7F390.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 20:49:18 <svip> The function can do that as well. 20:49:30 <svip> Indeed, I might remove that it can do them all right now. 20:49:36 <svip> Until I add the options to the GUI. 20:53:46 *** Progman [~progman@87.161.222.9] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:54:04 <mcbane> how to get faction with local authorities? 20:54:07 <mcbane> statues? 20:54:12 <Wolf01> 'night 20:54:14 *** thomas [~thomas@p57B7F390.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [] 20:54:17 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@host240-239-dynamic.15-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.] 20:54:21 <mcbane> advertising or house building? 20:54:39 <svip> Faction? 20:55:38 <Prof_Frink> mcbane: Trees. 20:55:49 <svip> Plant lots of trees. 20:55:58 <svip> But only within their area. 20:56:09 <svip> :> And if you had my patch, you could easily see where that was. ;) 20:58:27 *** Ammller [~Ammler@adsl-84-226-63-227.adslplus.ch] has joined #openttd 20:58:59 *** Mizipzor [Mizipzor@camembert.byh.bth.se] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:02:23 *** Ammlller [~Ammler@89.217.158.245] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:03:46 *** Insight` [~askme@host64-21.bornet.net] has quit [Quit: ( www.nnscript.de :: NoNameScript 4.1 :: www.regroup-esports.com )] 21:08:19 *** Eugene_ [AdiIRC@189.17.211.fdial.global.net.uk] has joined #openttd 21:20:47 <mcbane> umm what dies the fix of fa#1191 do ? recalculate te right rating of stations and industry? 21:21:58 <glx> no 21:26:14 *** mikl [~mikl@0x57372ee2.mrbnqu1.broadband.tele.dk] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 21:36:01 *** redmonkey [~redmonkey@p54A073BF.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 21:36:17 *** NukeBuster [~opera@a62-251-21-79.adsl.xs4all.nl] has left #openttd [] 21:36:57 <Eddi|zuHause3> <svip> http://www.isarapix.com/pix97/1188765784.png <- err.... 21:37:16 <Eddi|zuHause3> have you considered that not all tiles of the refinery actually accept oil?!? 21:37:57 <Eddi|zuHause3> same with power stations 21:38:55 <redmonkey> hi again. just one question. will the bug FS#1191 be fixed in the next stable version now (0.5.3)? 21:39:52 <glx> Additional comments about closing: In r11039; will be backported. It won't fix the old entries in the graph, but new entries will be correct. 21:40:43 <redmonkey> yea, but what does "backported" means? i'm not into programmer talk :) 21:41:02 <glx> it means it will go in 0.5 branch 21:41:45 <redmonkey> ah okay. good. 21:42:32 <svip> <Eddi|zuHause3> have you considered that not all tiles of the refinery actually accept oil?!? << Huh? 21:42:48 <svip> It's different from tile to tile? 21:42:53 <Rubidium> yes 21:42:54 <Eddi|zuHause3> use the query tool :) 21:43:11 *** alex^_^ [~alexalex@78.86.117.217] has quit [] 21:43:37 <Rubidium> even considered that one tile does not always make a steel mill accept passengers? 21:44:03 <Rubidium> you need a few tiles in the coverage area for a steel mill to accept passengers 21:44:19 <Rubidium> s/you need/your station needs/ 21:44:51 <svip> Hm. 21:45:03 <svip> So I need to get the IndustrySpecTile and not just the IndustrySpec? 21:45:14 <Rubidium> yup 21:45:39 <svip> But that requires I get the IndustryGfx. 21:45:43 <svip> And how do I do that? 21:45:55 *** Frostregen_ [SADDAM@dslb-084-058-186-029.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd 21:46:31 <Eddi|zuHause3> yeah, like with houses 21:46:44 <Rubidium> svip: guess how a function would be called if it gets an IndustryGfx? 21:46:45 <glx> gfx is in the map 21:46:56 <svip> Yeah, Rubidium. 21:46:56 <glx> there's an accessor for it 21:48:00 *** Eugene_ [AdiIRC@189.17.211.fdial.global.net.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:48:35 *** Eugene_ [AdiIRC@189.17.211.fdial.global.net.uk] has joined #openttd 21:48:40 <glx> that should help you to find where it is declared 21:49:50 <svip> How do I found out all Cargos used by the current map type? 21:49:51 *** elmex [~elmex@e180064157.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:51:24 <Rubidium> something that would be a gazillion times easier is just using GetAcceptedCargo instead of implementing the same thing again (I think) 21:51:40 *** stillunknown [~stillunkn@82-171-87-247.dsl.ip.tiscali.nl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:51:53 *** Frostregen [SADDAM@84.58.174.230] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:52:05 *** Frostregen_ is now known as Frostregen 21:52:55 *** stillunknown [~stillunkn@82-171-87-247.dsl.ip.tiscali.nl] has joined #openttd 21:54:41 <glx> it's too easy ;) 21:55:07 <svip> :P 21:55:15 <svip> O_o How make the ac though? 21:55:20 <svip> The AcceptedCargo argument. 21:55:47 <glx> check how it's done in Place_LandInfo 21:56:50 *** Strid [gg@85.8.6.64.static.se.wasadata.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:57:19 <Eddi|zuHause3> i think it would be more useful to check how it is done in station building, but i don't actually have a clue :) 21:57:56 <glx> well Place_LandInfo is the query tool 21:58:17 <Eddi|zuHause3> yeah, i figured that :) 21:59:26 <Eddi|zuHause3> but he wants the cargo that gets accepted by the area around the current tile, which is similar to what the station placement code does to show which cargo the station will accept 22:01:25 *** Brianetta [~brian@82-39-52-234.cable.ubr03.benw.blueyonder.co.uk] has quit [Quit: TschÃŒÃ] 22:01:37 *** Brianetta [~brian@82-39-52-234.cable.ubr03.benw.blueyonder.co.uk] has joined #openttd 22:02:33 *** KouDy [user@85.207.64.178] has left #openttd [] 22:03:13 *** joosa` [joosa@heh.fi] has joined #openttd 22:03:13 *** joosa [joosa@heh.fi] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:03:44 <svip> :| glx. 22:03:56 <svip> But doesn't that mean I have to run through the entire list of cargo's each time? 22:04:03 <skidd13> good night 22:04:09 <svip> Night, skidd13. 22:04:12 <svip> You said little. 22:04:26 *** Strid [gg@85.8.6.64.static.se.wasadata.net] has joined #openttd 22:05:17 <skidd13> svip: yup, have rewritten the whole direction usage in the town growth... so haven't got time ;) 22:05:29 <svip> ;) 22:05:45 *** skidd13 [~skidd13@p548A551D.dip.t-dialin.net] has left #openttd [] 22:06:02 <mcbane> question i have 99% transported but mine dont raise production 22:06:12 *** Strid_ [gg@85.8.6.64.static.se.wasadata.net] has joined #openttd 22:06:17 *** Darkebie [~dkb@d5153D5CD.access.telenet.be] has quit [Quit: VIP Gill ;D] 22:06:24 <svip> Why should it, mcbane? 22:06:38 *** Strid [gg@85.8.6.64.static.se.wasadata.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:06:39 <Eddi|zuHause3> we' s'hould ha've 'a memo'rial mi'nute fo'r al'l t'he abuse'd apostrophe's 22:06:47 <glx> mcbane: random at work :) 22:07:20 *** Greyscale [~greyscale@host86-141-103-186.range86-141.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:08:33 <glx> mcbane: http://blog.openttd.org/?p=8 explains some of the magic behind production 22:08:37 <mcbane> are ya dure glx? 22:09:16 <mcbane> i have one kind of mine (for example all same production at start (shouldnt it be random?)) and dont raising output... 22:11:27 <glx> it's all random, but random may look not random 22:12:54 <glx> many values can give the same result as we don't use all bits of the random number to determine what to do 22:17:50 <mcbane> but start values are all same for one type cargo thats changed.. 22:20:50 <glx> no I just generated a map, it has 10 coal mine, only 2 have the same production 22:23:55 <svip> :( 22:24:03 <svip> Why does it always print the colour of passengers now, glx? 22:24:23 <glx> hmm? 22:25:30 <svip> http://pastebin.ca/679343 22:25:55 <Eddi|zuHause3> uninitialised variable? 22:26:11 <svip> Hmmm? 22:26:16 <glx> it stops on the first cargo found 22:26:25 <svip> It does? 22:27:09 <Eddi|zuHause3> what is the sense of that for loop anyway? 22:27:17 <svip> It loops through all cargos. 22:27:27 <Eddi|zuHause3> if you search for a fixed cargo (e.g. oil), why loop through anything? 22:27:29 <svip> And the ac array contains all cargos the industry accepts. 22:27:30 *** Eugene_ [AdiIRC@189.17.211.fdial.global.net.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:27:47 <svip> Cause I have to loop through it to find it, Eddi|zuHause3. :| 22:27:54 <svip> I used a different method before. 22:28:09 <svip> But then Rubidium said no no no. 22:28:16 <svip> There is a GetAcceptedCargo() function. 22:28:16 <Eddi|zuHause3> what? the same cargo has always the same index... 22:28:29 <svip> True. 22:28:59 <svip> :| But right now it can also look through all cargo. 22:29:06 <Eddi|zuHause3> so if you search for oil, just check ac[oil] 22:29:12 <svip> Which I will remove when I have added the "pick a cargo" feature. 22:29:53 <Eddi|zuHause3> also, this totally misbehaves if you have less than 8/8 cargo on a tile... 22:30:03 <svip> O_O Yeah. 22:31:37 <Eddi|zuHause3> i have a weird problem, my graphics driver lacks 3D acceleration (which is a problem, but not the weird part)... the weird part is that OTTD now is extremely slow, even though it should only need 2D acceleration 22:31:39 *** Greyscale [~Greyscale@host86-141-103-186.range86-141.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 22:32:06 *** redmonkey [~redmonkey@p54A073BF.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: quit] 22:33:14 <Eddi|zuHause3> and it gets even weirder, it is totally alright, when i start with -b 32bpp-simple 22:34:21 <stillunknown> Eddi|zuHause3: what driver are you using? 22:34:40 <glx> 8bpp->32bpp conversion may be slow 22:34:42 <Eddi|zuHause3> linux, ati, sdl 22:34:55 <glx> that's why fullscreen sometimes help 22:35:20 <stillunknown> Eddi|zuHause3: What hardware if i may ask? 22:36:29 <Eddi|zuHause3> err... Radeon 9700 i think... it was allright previously, but on some recent update it failed to compile the 3D kernel module or something, and it hasn't worked ever since, even with downgrading to previous versions 22:37:25 <ln-> hmm, are there really non-stop flights from London to Sydney? 22:38:17 <glx> it should be possible, depending of plane type 22:38:45 <stillunknown> Eddi|zuHause3: It's possible that most of the 2d acceleration goes through the 2d engine. 22:38:50 <stillunknown> *3d engine 22:38:55 <Eddi|zuHause3> the only person i have seen traveling in that direction had stop in singapore 22:39:11 <Eddi|zuHause3> stillunknown: i never had problems with other programs 22:40:05 <svip> How do I draw a TEXTBTN with a function? 22:40:23 <svip> I basically wants to draw a legend when a user picks a specific zoning. 22:41:11 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1DE09.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 22:43:32 <stillunknown> Eddi|zuHause3: There's also the possibility that because of a broken drm, you have reverted to the vesa driver or something alike. 22:43:42 <stillunknown> Which could offer no 2d acceleration at all. 22:44:10 *** Dark_Link^skola is now known as Dark_Link^sleep 22:44:30 <Eddi|zuHause3> stillunknown: i HAVE 2d accelleration everywhere... just not with openttd 8bbp 22:44:53 <Eddi|zuHause3> e.g. i have xv 22:45:23 <Eddi|zuHause3> and no acceleration would also make 32bpp slow 22:45:50 <MrBrrr> Has anyone ever thought about removing the 180 degree turn a train does when reaching the end of the line? 22:45:50 <stillunknown> Maybe the fallback 2d acceleration is not enough for openttd. 22:46:06 <Eddi|zuHause3> MrBrrr: lots of people... big problem... 22:46:17 <MrBrrr> What were the big problems? 22:47:10 <Eddi|zuHause3> the first problem is making a train go backwards, meaning the last wagon has to become engine, and all first pointers need updating, it gets quite messy 22:47:25 <Eddi|zuHause3> the second problem is not all trains are realistically capable of driving backwards 22:47:49 <MrBrrr> the second problem doesn't seem that problematic, but the first one, eeek. 22:48:07 <Eddi|zuHause3> the third problem, in order to realistically solve problem #2, you need shunting (separating between engine and wagons) and turntables 22:48:21 <glx> main problem is a train need to have an engine as first "vehicle" 22:50:29 <Eddi|zuHause3> also problem III. a) in order to switch engines at a terminus station, you need a stash of replacement engines 22:50:58 <Eddi|zuHause3> which need to rotate through the trains scheduled to the stations 22:51:12 <MrBrrr> Hmmm. 22:51:25 <Eddi|zuHause3> but only a subset of all trains 22:51:42 <Eddi|zuHause3> it creates a huge order mess at best 22:52:21 <MrBrrr> Isn't that solution a bit too much? 22:52:40 <MrBrrr> So far the main problem remains the whole engine as first vehicle :( 22:53:16 <Eddi|zuHause3> well, either stupid or realistic, there is no useful version inbetween 22:53:42 <MrBrrr> Well, with the way depots work, realistic is a long way off. 22:53:56 <MrBrrr> Seeing 10 wagons enter that little tile always makes me smile :) 22:54:33 <Eddi|zuHause3> that is probably easily solveable when you implement #3 22:55:25 <MrBrrr> I'd have to read on turntables. 22:57:23 <Sacro> Eddi|zuHause3: hehe, switching engines at the terminii is fun 22:57:29 <Sacro> doing SimSig Kings Cross 22:57:35 <Sacro> you need a few extra locos for trains 22:57:46 <svip> What the hell? 22:57:47 <svip> src/zoning.h:32: error: expected primary-expression before '=' token 22:57:52 <svip> I don't even have a "=" token on that line. 22:58:11 <glx> check previous line 22:58:14 <Eddi|zuHause3> broken include 22:58:50 <glx> usually it's a missing ; 22:59:32 <svip> I found out what it was. 22:59:38 <svip> I had defined something as = 7; 22:59:40 <Sacro> s/$/;/ should do it 22:59:45 <MrBrrr> Question: How much realism should there be in OpenTTD? 22:59:53 <ln-> 100% 22:59:54 <Sacro> MrBrrr: 402 22:59:56 <svip> :( I completely forgot how #define worked. 23:00:01 <svip> 10000000% 23:00:10 <svip> That's the tax fee as well. 23:00:14 <MrBrrr> Argh, alrighty there. 23:00:26 <MrBrrr> *then (sleepy) 23:02:47 <svip> :| 23:02:49 <svip> I don't get it. 23:02:53 <svip> I create a variable in the header file. 23:03:04 <svip> But yet it says I have undefined references to it. 23:04:47 <svip> zoning_gui.o(.text+0x154): In function `ZoningToolbWndProc(Window*, WindowEvent*)': 23:04:47 <svip> : undefined reference to `_outer_legends' 23:05:00 <svip> Defined: 23:05:01 <svip> VARDEF StringID _outer_legends[ZONING_COLOURS]; 23:05:22 <svip> That is zoning.h btw. 23:05:29 <glx> that's the declaration 23:05:31 *** KritiK [~Maxim@78-106-23-160.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:05:38 <svip> Yeah... hmm? 23:05:57 <glx> you need to implement it in a cpp file too 23:06:00 <svip> Ah right. 23:07:17 <svip> Eek... 23:07:19 <svip> :( 23:07:31 <MrBrrr> In RC3, which is the more "realistic", normal acceleration or the "realistic" one? As far as climbing hills and such? 23:07:35 <svip> Can I run memset outside of a function? 23:07:53 <glx> svip: no 23:07:58 <svip> :( 23:07:58 <svip> Aw. 23:08:05 <svip> I need to run it once. 23:08:14 <svip> But only once. 23:08:19 <svip> And this function is called over and over again. 23:08:34 <svip> Cause it is the Window function thingie. 23:08:55 <svip> Got any suggestions? 23:09:01 <svip> O_O I check if it is good. 23:09:10 *** Wezz6400 [Wezz6400@145-118-111-234.fttx.bbned.nl] has quit [Quit: Zzz] 23:10:15 <Eddi|zuHause3> svip: make an initialisation on game startup 23:10:21 <svip> :o 23:10:27 <svip> In openttd.cpp? 23:10:39 <Eddi|zuHause3> for example 23:11:02 <Eddi|zuHause3> gnah... i play for 10 minutes and already miss PBS :( 23:11:57 <svip> :P 23:11:59 <MrBrrr> lol 23:13:20 <Eddi|zuHause3> also, the daylength patch was kinda fun... besides of its quirks 23:13:37 <MrBrrr> Why the "was" ? 23:13:53 <Sacro> yay, daylength patch 23:14:07 <Sacro> Eddi|zuHause3: it had no quirks 23:14:09 <Sacro> it was perfect 23:14:11 *** Vikthor [~Vikthor@snat1.spoje.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:14:19 <MrBrrr> Why the "was" ? 23:14:28 <MrBrrr> Went missing did it? 23:14:31 <Eddi|zuHause3> yes, it had yearly running costs 3 times the build costs! 23:14:47 <Sacro> well... true 23:14:53 <Sacro> but for a 5 line diff 23:15:05 *** Diabolic-Angel [~dia@xdsl-81-173-251-201.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: leaving] 23:15:19 <Eddi|zuHause3> i think it grew way beyond 5 lines before i ever used it :p 23:15:27 *** AntB [~AntB-UK@86.155.249.150] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.78.1 [Firefox 2.0.0.6/2007072518]] 23:17:51 *** Ammlller [~Ammler@adsl-84-226-63-227.adslplus.ch] has joined #openttd 23:21:48 *** Ammller [~Ammler@adsl-84-226-63-227.adslplus.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:23:17 <Eddi|zuHause3> capacity of single track lines heavily reduces without PBS :/ 23:24:08 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1DE09.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:28:05 <svip> How does the last arg in DrawString() work? 23:29:07 <glx> color? 23:29:12 <svip> Yeah... 23:29:19 <svip> But it doesn't seem to give me the *right* colours. 23:30:28 <svip> And why does it give some sort of shadow? 23:30:47 *** Bjarni [~Bjarni@0x50a4167e.virnxx14.adsl-dhcp.tele.dk] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:30:49 <Eddi|zuHause3> it's probably one of the named colours 23:30:59 <svip> Huh? 23:31:07 <Eddi|zuHause3> blue, red, etc. 23:31:23 <Eddi|zuHause3> like in the company colour selection 23:31:29 <svip> But I thought that palette image in the docs is the same as the colours there. 23:32:06 <Eddi|zuHause3> looked in docs/ottd-colourtext-palette.png? 23:32:22 <svip> Exactly. 23:32:26 <svip> That's what I just told you. 23:33:22 <Eddi|zuHause3> and what exactly is wrong then? 23:33:27 <svip> The colours are wrong. 23:33:31 <svip> When I look at them. 23:33:33 <svip> :| 23:35:49 <glx> screenshot maybe? 23:36:48 <svip> Two seconds, glx. 23:36:52 <svip> Also, I'm going to bed in a jeffy. 23:37:02 <svip> http://www.isarapix.com/pix65/1188776205.png 23:37:07 <svip> The Bad and Dunno is okay. 23:37:18 <svip> But there should be a Good text between Dunno and Bad in Light Blue. 23:37:26 <svip> And the Can't Build should be red. 23:37:46 *** Brianetta [~brian@82-39-52-234.cable.ubr03.benw.blueyonder.co.uk] has quit [Quit: TschÃŒÃ] 23:38:49 <Eddi|zuHause3> and the line that calls this stuff? 23:39:12 <svip> DrawString(4+(i*35), 31, _outer_legends[i], GetColourByPosition(i)); 23:39:13 <glx> bad looks weird for me 23:39:31 <svip> Well... I am not pleased with that either. 23:40:02 <glx> _outer_legend is only used there? 23:40:09 <svip> Also _inner_legends 23:40:16 <svip> But that is for the stuff below. 23:40:21 <svip> The call looks very similar. 23:40:33 <svip> Well... _outer_legends is used one place else. 23:40:41 <svip> ChangeZoningLegend(_zoning.outer, _outer_legends); 23:40:47 <svip> Namely the function the gives them their names. 23:41:02 <glx> anyway that's not the problem :) 23:41:10 <svip> Nope. 23:41:15 <svip> Cause it worked when all word was black. 23:41:32 <glx> what is the code in GetColourByPosition? 23:42:05 <svip> http://pastebin.ca/679390 23:42:49 <glx> max color is 0x10 23:43:28 <glx> lightblue is 13=0xD 23:43:43 <svip> O_o There are only 16 colours? 23:43:48 <glx> yes 23:43:51 <svip> Crazy. 23:44:06 <svip> And what about the other colours? 23:44:17 <Eddi|zuHause3> only the ones listed in the ottd-colourtext-palette.png are available for text 23:44:28 <Eddi|zuHause3> and they have the indices printed in front of them 23:45:00 <svip> Yeah. 23:45:05 <svip> But he just said there is only 16 colours. 23:45:10 <svip> And that image lists 255 colours. 23:45:18 <Eddi|zuHause3> no, it's a different picture!! 23:45:20 <glx> look at the file name 23:46:15 <Eddi|zuHause3> also look in gfx.h around line 290 23:46:19 <svip> Alright, alright. 23:46:50 <Eddi|zuHause3> although that order seems different... 23:47:27 <Eddi|zuHause3> and of course it is uncommented... 23:49:09 <svip> http://www.isarapix.com/pix37/1188776912.png 23:49:50 <svip> And now. 23:49:51 <svip> Good night! 23:50:12 <Eddi|zuHause3> PS: the drawing on sloped road is weird 23:50:23 <Eddi|zuHause3> either do all roads, or none 23:50:31 *** CobraA1 [~Jeremiah@75-163-128-216.clsp.qwest.net] has joined #openttd 23:50:32 <Eddi|zuHause3> you can still build tram on sloped road 23:51:00 <Eddi|zuHause3> or make roads a different colour... 23:51:33 <glx> you can use any color with IS_PALETTE_COLOR 23:52:17 *** Greyscale [~Greyscale@host86-141-103-186.range86-141.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:53:32 <glx> funny values in the enum in gfx.h are never used it seems 23:54:30 <glx> Eddi|zuHause3: and you're right, order is broken 23:55:27 <glx> hmm some are used 23:56:13 <Eddi|zuHause3> they may mean something completely different... 23:56:25 <glx> yes looks like that 23:57:51 <Eddi|zuHause3> possibly connected to this ominous "_colour_gradient" directly below 23:58:04 <glx> seems so