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I want to play :\ 05:35:19 <Celestar> :P 05:35:24 <Celestar> play@work? 05:38:14 <planetmaker> heya 05:38:22 <planetmaker> nah, just chat@work :P 05:38:30 <Celestar> :P 05:43:40 <Forked> chat at work.. I tried playing through remote desktop .. but it just doesn't work =P 05:44:51 <Jerimiah40> lol. Openttd should fit on a thumb drive :P 05:45:04 *** Celestar_ [~Jadzia_Da@mnch-5d87516a.pool.einsundeins.de] has joined #openttd 05:45:15 <planetmaker> well... it does :). 10MB fit well on USB :P 05:45:30 <Forked> I think the smart thing would be .. not play at work ;) 05:45:56 <Jerimiah40> or don't get caught playing at work :P 05:46:11 <Forked> I see you've done this before =p 05:46:35 <Jerimiah40> school for me, but it amounts to basically the same thing 05:46:54 *** Celestar [~Jadzia_Da@p5B0DA424.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 05:46:59 <Forked> I do not agree :) 05:47:25 <Jerimiah40> fair enough 05:47:35 <Jerimiah40> Depends where you work, I suppose 05:48:05 <Forked> at my isp :) I'd like to keep the job 05:48:31 <Jerimiah40> yeah, probably a good plan 05:49:17 <Forked> afk 05:52:19 *** Celestar_ is now known as Celestar 06:00:13 *** lobster_MB [~michielbr@86.89.201.189] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 06:00:17 *** Celestar [~Jadzia_Da@mnch-5d87516a.pool.einsundeins.de] has quit [Quit: leaving] 06:00:59 *** lobster_MB [~michielbr@86.89.201.189] has joined #openttd 06:15:42 <peter1138> :o 06:15:50 <peter1138> TrueBrain, hg is out of date again :( 06:26:16 *** roboboy [3aad2910@67.207.141.120] has joined #openttd 06:29:36 *** Celestar [~Jadzia_Da@p5B0DA424.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 06:32:30 <roboboy> hello 06:32:58 <Forked> at work.. must.. avoid.. forums.. hnngh 06:33:11 <SmatZ> :-) 06:33:13 <SmatZ> hello 06:33:19 <Celestar> lol 06:33:33 <Celestar> at home ... must ... write ... final report 06:33:39 * Celestar closes vim :P 06:33:44 <Forked> noooo :p 06:34:27 <SmatZ> :-) 06:35:00 <roboboy> Celestar: I got an autoreply from flyspray stating that Rubidium had moved my bugreport to the cargodest version. Just leting you know it had been created if you hadnt been notified. 06:36:09 <Celestar> (= 06:39:32 * Forked makes a note 06:41:20 <Celestar> what note? 06:41:23 <Celestar> mah 06:41:40 <Forked> where to submit future bugreports.. if I should find something else 06:41:54 <Celestar> I wish when people find a bug in cargodest, they'd FIRST upgrade to the latest version and THEN produce a bug report for it, and not report alreaddy-fixed bugs 06:42:42 <Forked> hehe.. but I did! ;( 06:44:30 <Celestar> you did 06:44:32 <Celestar> others ... 06:45:29 <roboboy> did I upgrade/have the latest version 06:45:53 <roboboy> I just downloaded the one from he folder with the most recent date 06:46:34 <Forked> I don't think that is the latest though :\ 06:47:23 <roboboy> hm 06:48:10 <roboboy> http://binaries.openttd.org/custom/cargodest/he79bdd28/ or http://binaries.openttd.org/custom/cargodest/af0fc47a/ 06:48:13 <roboboy> brb 06:48:24 <Forked> e79bdd28 is latest of those two 06:58:02 *** Jerimiah40 [~jerimiah4@h66-244-213-147.pmcnet.ca] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 06:58:07 *** Jerimiah40 [~jerimiah4@h66-244-213-147.pmcnet.ca] has joined #openttd 07:03:13 <roboboy> so I have the latest version 07:04:04 <Celestar> heh e79bdd28 is OLD 07:04:48 <roboboy> hm 07:04:53 <Celestar> two critical crash fixes and two bug fixes since then (= 07:05:03 <Celestar> crash fixes mostly related to unrouted cargo 07:05:10 <roboboy> so the folder that is newer contains the older version 07:05:36 <Forked> the latest version is not available on binaries.openttd.org atm 07:06:18 * roboboy waits patiently as a tester all ways should 07:08:49 <Celestar> er 07:08:55 <Celestar> af0f is even older (= 07:10:42 *** Mark [~M4rk@5351EE2E.cable.casema.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 07:11:18 *** ben_goodger [~ben@host86-153-45-29.range86-153.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 07:11:40 *** ben_goodger [~ben@host86-153-45-29.range86-153.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 07:13:47 *** mortal [~mortal@217.61.144.15] has joined #openttd 07:13:47 <roboboy> ok so I do have the latest compiled version 07:15:52 *** stillunknown [~stillunkn@82-136-225-75.ip.telfort.nl] has joined #openttd 07:17:23 *** Yeggstry is now known as Yeggs-work 07:20:29 <Celestar> compile it yourself then? (= 07:22:06 *** AndiK [~Haahaa@dslb-088-064-061-047.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd 07:22:16 <AndiK> Servus 07:23:40 <Celestar> good morning 07:24:10 <AndiK> Ah, there's life on this planet. Good morning. :-) 07:24:45 <AndiK> Does anyone here have some experience in compiling modified OTTD source with Visual Studio '05 pro? 07:25:19 <AndiK> I followed the manual on the wiki and actually managed to compile a exe without errors. 07:25:37 * roboboy wonders if BuildOTTD could compile cargodest 07:25:43 <Celestar> roboboy: I think it does 07:25:52 <Celestar> roboboy: but you need a diff against latest trunk I think 07:25:55 <Celestar> roboboy: I can make one 07:26:17 <roboboy> ok thank you. 07:26:21 <AndiK> Problem is: It crashes immediately after startup. After about an hour of digging in the source i found out that it didn't find any working palettes. 07:27:04 <AndiK> Something about a missing name field in .obg files 07:27:10 <Celestar> oh 07:27:17 <Celestar> I think that has been fixed yesterday night (= 07:27:23 <AndiK> :-D 07:27:34 <AndiK> Phew. 07:27:38 <Celestar> but not 100% sure yet 07:27:46 <Celestar> which source are you using? 07:27:53 <AndiK> mom 07:28:32 <peter1138> http://hg.openttd.org/openttd/trunk.hg/raw-file/2e4575f188ad/bin/data/orig_win.obg 07:28:47 <roboboy> hello peter1138 07:29:01 <AndiK> e79bdd28d8bb from the cargodest Mercurion 07:29:04 <Pikka> Celestar: I assume the crash reported in the NARS thread was cargodest related, and not my fault? :) 07:29:50 <Celestar> roboboy: http://www.fvfischer.de/rn14214.diff 07:30:00 <roboboy> http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=723849#p723849 Pikka 07:30:12 <roboboy> thank you 07:30:25 <Celestar> AndiK: PLEASE use a new version, I've fixed half a dozen bugs since then :P 07:30:27 <Pikka> ah, I see :) thanks robo 07:31:05 <Celestar> Ammler: there's a new diff for the test server (= 07:31:37 <AndiK> Celestar: Oo-kay. Let's see if I can patch advanced timetables on a newer version... But first I want to see if it runs at all. 07:32:02 <Ammler> morning all 07:32:03 <Ammler> :-) 07:32:15 <Celestar> AndiK: k, but the e79b version doesn't have the obg fix afaik 07:32:19 <Celestar> morning Ammler 07:32:36 <Ammler> Celestar: the one you posted to roboboy? 07:33:21 <AndiK> Cele: Oh. I thought it was a faulty orig_win.obg, since peter just posted a link ^^ 07:34:05 <AndiK> Okay then... Going back to zero. 07:34:14 <AndiK> Thanks for you help, already. :-) 07:34:57 <Ammler> those obg files confuse me a little bit, in docs is written, it is case sensitive, but the obg for originals isn't case sensitive... 07:35:47 *** mortal [~mortal@217.61.144.15] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 07:36:05 <Rubidium> Ammler: it you use TRGR.GRF and trgr.grf in a .obg-file it will not work, ergo it is case sensitive 07:36:07 * roboboy makes sure he has .net framework 2 07:36:23 <AndiK> Um... If I don't give hg any info about what revision to clone, it'll take the most current, right? 07:36:40 <Rubidium> filenames on windows aren't case sensitive anyways (and we "hack" a little case insensitivity into the unix builds) 07:36:51 <Celestar> Ammler: yes (= 07:37:03 <Celestar> what EXACTLY are obg files? 07:37:09 <Celestar> never interacted with them in any way 07:38:08 <Ammler> Celestar: introduced yesterday for e 07:38:16 <Ammler> replacing original GRFs 07:39:15 <Celestar> Ammler: ah! 07:39:28 * peter1138 hmms at the bugs in the newgrf gui update patch. 07:39:42 <Celestar> Ammler: maybe I should hide in my cargodest branch again :P 07:40:45 <Ammler> well, I am quite interested in GRFs things, so I like to look in such things deeper :-) 07:42:12 <Celestar> Forked: I _don't_ understand the crash of yours :P 07:43:39 * Celestar sighs 07:45:31 <AndiK> Um, ah, err... I think I have to ask another rather stupid question. 07:46:25 <AndiK> Where do the [language].txt files hide? Don't they get cloned together with the rest of the source? I'm a bit confused right now... 07:46:55 <Ammler> Celestar: didn't you commit last changes? 07:47:06 <Ammler> last svn on the openttd.org repo is 211 07:47:40 <Celestar> I did. 07:47:46 <AndiK> Urghl. Okay, part of the question is resolved. 07:48:13 <Celestar> AndiK: [language].txt files are converted to [language].lng during the compile process. The text files are not needed by the binary 07:49:27 <Celestar> the lngs are basically a binary version of the language file 07:50:01 <roboboy> hm BuildOTTD is not working its giving me erors. it erors connecting to the svn server 07:50:25 <Celestar> roboboy: did you use the correct server? 07:50:34 <Ammler> oh, the other commits aren't in trunk... 07:51:14 <roboboy> what is the correct server? svn://svn.openttd.org/trunk is what the wiki says 07:51:56 <Rubidium> yes, and it works for me 07:52:09 <Ammler> for me too, just used it... 07:52:10 <Celestar> wtm as well 07:52:29 *** [com]buster [~Combuster@82-171-220-59.ip.telfort.nl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:52:46 <Ammler> Celestar: server is up2date :-) 07:53:18 *** Brianetta [~brian@client-86-27-115-128.bmly.adsl.virgin.net] has joined #openttd 07:53:25 <roboboy> what is the latest nightly? 07:53:31 <AndiK> Huh. Children exploring the world... today: The difference between SVN patch files and those for Mercurion. The Million Dollar Question: Is it easier to harras someone for a Mercurion file of his patch or rather convert it by hand? (As fas as the latter is possible at all...) 07:53:35 <Rubidium> roboboy: broken 07:53:49 <roboboy> ok 07:54:24 <Forked> Celestar: did you manage to reproduce it? 07:54:35 <Celestar> Forked: the crash-after-save? sure. 07:54:37 *** Swallow [~chatzilla@5355F5FD.cable.casema.nl] has joined #openttd 07:55:03 <Celestar> Forked: I have no idea why it crashes and I have no idea why it is related to cargodest in any way. It's nowhere near the cargodest code, but it doesn't crash in trunk 07:55:13 <Celestar> v->first should NEVER be 0 in the first place 07:55:26 * Forked makes the impossible possible :) 07:55:44 <Forked> also I have what you can call "brown fingers" .. every plant I touch dies. This might be related :\ 07:56:17 <blathijs_> peter1138: Variable sized pool items? That would be malloc? :-) 07:56:26 *** blathijs_ is now known as blathijs 07:56:54 <blathijs> peter1138: Interesting thought, though, having an indexed pool that uses malloc as a backend allocator instead of a fixed size pool 07:57:50 <Celestar> hello blathijs 07:58:35 <Forked> Celestar: I can try to reproduce in trunk (as well as latest cargodest, when I get my hands on it somehow) 07:58:35 <Celestar> StationID next = RoutingBase_t::Routing(dest->CargoLeft()->Type())->FindNextHop(dest->CargoLeft()->StationIndex(), cp->target); 07:58:40 <Celestar> \o/ hail accessor functions 07:59:28 <blathijs> hey Celestar :-) 07:59:54 <roboboy> how do I find what version of dot net I have 08:00:30 <roboboy> as windows says it failed installing dot net 2 as it is incompatable with the version currently installed 08:00:43 *** Milloflex [~ABC123@h-87-111.A175.cust.bahnhof.se] has joined #openttd 08:00:56 <Celestar> ... dotnet 08:00:58 *** LilDood [~IceChat7@cpc2-bolt5-0-0-cust370.manc.cable.ntl.com] has joined #openttd 08:01:13 <roboboy> yeah BuildOTTD needs it 08:01:30 *** Vikthor [~Vikthor@snat1.spoje.net] has joined #openttd 08:01:31 <Forked> first thing I can think of is add/remove programs in the windows control panel .. see what version(s) you can uninstall :-) 08:01:44 * Celestar loves to have a working OS 08:01:51 *** reldred|gone is now known as reldred 08:02:07 <Celestar> I need to factor out this crap 08:03:19 <planetmaker> Rubidium, I try to understand what it does: what is this "base graphics change" you implemented over the weekend? 08:03:48 <planetmaker> Is it basically a way to get OpenGFX replace the original grf from TTDX? So we could have a completely independent game? :) 08:04:27 <Rubidium> planetmaker: exactly 08:04:35 <Rubidium> in a configurable and manageable way 08:04:43 <planetmaker> wow, nice! Congratulations :) 08:05:09 <Ammler> it will still take some time until the replacment is finished 08:05:18 <roboboy> will he old TTD files still work if say someone wanted to use them? 08:06:09 <planetmaker> What I don't quite get: what's the fundamental difference between the obg files and the grf. Is it a new file type introduced for the base grf? 08:06:31 <planetmaker> Or is it just to make sure that the base grf are not confused with newgrf? 08:06:56 * planetmaker has very limited understanding of grf handling :S 08:07:30 <Ammler> planetmaker: http://vcs.openttd.org/svn/browser/trunk/docs/obg_format.txt 08:07:44 <planetmaker> Ah, I didn't see that so far. 08:07:47 * planetmaker goes reading 08:08:02 <roboboy> grr 08:08:07 <Ammler> obg ist to define, which files you like to use for base graphics... 08:09:22 <Ammler> you can see the different types with -h to use them with -I :-) 08:09:41 <planetmaker> ah... I saw. But now I start to comprehend :) Thx 08:09:55 <AndiK> Yay. My new binary doesn't crash anymore! Instead, it quits telling me that it couldn't find any base graphics - which shouldn't be, because I copied the whole bin folder and the exe into an existing installation that has worked perfectly before. 08:10:37 <AndiK> All the original grfs are there - I've checked. 08:10:37 <Celestar> AndiK: including the original TTD files? 08:10:42 <Celestar> he 08:10:51 <Ammler> AndiK: you did it the wrong way 08:11:03 <Ammler> you should copy the graphic files to your bin... 08:11:14 <Ammler> if you don't store them "global" 08:11:19 <AndiK> Hm. Where's the big difference? 08:11:35 <Ammler> Mr. Proper 08:12:18 <Ammler> store originals in your global data dir. 08:12:42 <Ammler> then a openttd download would just work :-) 08:13:01 <planetmaker> Ammler: though OpenGFX might not be complete, my guess is, that this trunk change will at least boost motivation quite a bit :) 08:13:16 *** Gekz [~brendan@123-243-206-102.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 08:13:32 *** LilDood [~IceChat7@cpc2-bolt5-0-0-cust370.manc.cable.ntl.com] has quit [Quit: Give a man a fish and he will eat for a day. Teach him how to fish, and he will sit in a boat and drink beer all day] 08:13:36 <Ammler> planetmaker: there isn't much 08:13:43 <Ammler> at least for temperate 08:13:52 <Ammler> (left ^) 08:14:23 <planetmaker> yeah. Which is good :) Toyland is the ugly side of the game anyway :P 08:14:38 <Ammler> I made some dummy (empty) original GRFs, you can play it quite nice, if you use GRFs 08:14:48 * roboboy wonders why BuildOTTD keeps failing 08:15:11 <Ammler> (NewGRFs) :-) 08:15:16 <planetmaker> roboboy: there's some recent thread on that in the tt-forums. 08:15:31 <planetmaker> Ammler: I'm interested :) 08:15:42 <Ammler> for empty GRFs? 08:15:50 <planetmaker> Maybe make an #openttdcoop base grf pack? 08:15:56 <AndiK> Ammler: Maybe you're right. But whatever way I copy the files, OTTD still tells me that the "name" field is missing and stops parsing the file. 08:16:21 <Ammler> "name" field? 08:16:28 <peter1138> The .obg should be in data/ 08:16:34 <AndiK> They are 08:16:36 <AndiK> All of them 08:16:41 <peter1138> planetmaker, it does not work with NewGRFs. 08:17:19 <AndiK> Console says 6 times: "dbg: [grf] Base graphics set detail loading: name field missing" 08:17:20 <Ammler> indeed, currently there is no working Replacment GRF 08:17:21 <planetmaker> peter1138: hm, but my guess is, that for a person with some knowledge on grfs it should be possible to convert OpenGFX newgrf into these base grf? 08:17:39 <Celestar> hm 08:17:51 <planetmaker> probably needs knowledge of NFO, though... hm 08:18:08 <Ammler> planetmaker: I like to let that the authors do, Foobar. 08:18:19 <Rubidium> the NFO knowledge required is almost 0 08:18:28 <planetmaker> :) Yeah, right, Ammler :) 08:18:39 <Rubidium> the ability of counting it much more important ;) 08:18:47 *** Wezz6400 [~Wezz6400@145-118-111-36.fttx.bbned.nl] has joined #openttd 08:18:50 <planetmaker> one, two, many ;) 08:19:38 <Ammler> I replaced all originals with white (and blue) originals and loaded the OpenGFX as usual NewGRFs 08:20:04 <planetmaker> Two thumbs up for you guys. You're making incredibly fast progress :) 08:20:08 <Ammler> if you use blue (transparent) originals, you don't see the missing things... :-) 08:20:09 *** stillunknown [~stillunkn@82-136-225-75.ip.telfort.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 08:20:49 <planetmaker> He :) Ghost things... they're there... but you cannot see it. Permanent transparency ;) 08:21:12 <Ammler> something like road lights and some houses 08:21:22 <Ammler> which you don't need if you use NewGRFs 08:21:56 <planetmaker> :) ok. 08:22:24 <peter1138> I shall continue to hope that the OpenGFX base graphics will be made properly. 08:22:26 <Ammler> so my conclusion is: #openttdcoop games are already playable without originals :-) 08:22:43 <planetmaker> :) as any other game then would be. 08:23:04 <planetmaker> peter1138: we all shall continue to hope that :) 08:23:04 <Ammler> currently you need NewGRFs to support it :-) 08:23:20 *** elmex [~elmex@e180066212.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #openttd 08:23:24 <Ammler> specially NewHouses. 08:23:26 <peter1138> Rubidium, can a 'null' base graphics set be made, for dedicated servers? 08:23:28 *** Gekz [~brendan@123-243-206-102.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #openttd 08:24:00 <Ammler> I could give you mine... 08:24:10 *** Gekz [~brendan@123-243-206-102.static.tpgi.com.au] has left #openttd [] 08:24:16 *** Gekz [~brendan@123-243-206-102.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #openttd 08:24:34 <peter1138> No, I mean a proper one. 08:24:34 <roboboy> the fix gets the source but does not compile 08:24:40 <Ammler> peter1138: that should already be possible... 08:24:45 <Celestar> roboboy: ? 08:24:52 <Ammler> :P 08:25:04 <AndiK> HA!!ÂŽ 08:25:05 <roboboy> the fix for BuildOTTD 08:25:14 <AndiK> I know what the problem was! 08:25:17 <roboboy> it gets everything but will not download 08:25:27 <Rubidium> peter1138: I reckon one can do that 08:25:31 <roboboy> hm I geuse ill have to leave it alone 08:25:36 <AndiK> The CR/LF are broken/missing in the .obg files 08:25:58 <peter1138> roboboy, it's still spelled guess. 08:26:01 <AndiK> After correcting them manually, the game starts nice :-) 08:26:04 *** nekx [~asd@0x3e42e6e6.adsl.cybercity.dk] has joined #openttd 08:26:08 <roboboy> unless I can get to compile c++ later with a compiler 08:26:27 <roboboy> I dont have time to work out how to compile with a compiler 08:26:38 <Forked> the wiki knows :) 08:26:41 *** mikl [~mikl@84.225.4.23] has joined #openttd 08:26:48 <Ammler> AndiK: so you are the first windows user using the new nightly... :-) 08:26:53 <roboboy> but I do not have time 08:27:00 <AndiK> Yay! I'm so proud! :-D 08:27:11 <AndiK> I helped zer devz!! 08:27:51 <planetmaker> make a diff :) 08:29:13 * peter1138 prods at TrueBrain 08:29:32 <peter1138> Or someone who can make the hg repo respect reality. 08:30:21 <planetmaker> reality sometimes is a merciless bitch ;) 08:32:26 <Celestar> hm? 08:32:50 <peter1138> It is out of date. 08:33:09 <roboboy> peter did you get told that cargodest has a version on flyspray 08:33:24 <peter1138> I saw you mention it earlier. 08:33:32 <roboboy> ok 08:34:17 <Celestar> peter1138: http://www.fvfischer.de/cleanup1.diff <= better, right? (= 08:35:57 *** mikl [~mikl@84.225.4.23] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 08:36:00 <AndiK> How can I get hg to save a diff of certain files? 08:36:29 <Celestar> hg diff list_of_files 08:36:45 <Ammler> AndiK: like svn 08:36:46 <AndiK> And where does it save this diff to? 08:36:53 *** Frostregen [~sucks@dslb-084-058-191-035.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd 08:37:00 <Celestar> AndiK: stdout 08:37:04 <AndiK> Ah 08:37:08 *** mikl [~mikl@84.225.4.23] has joined #openttd 08:37:18 <AndiK> hg diff list_of_files >>blah.diff? 08:37:46 <Celestar> yeah 08:37:49 <AndiK> Yay! 08:37:50 <Celestar> for example 08:37:55 <Ammler> 1 is better, else you might have doubles if you do it 2. time :-) 08:37:57 <Celestar> ">" suffices too 08:38:15 <AndiK> Oh, yes. >> was append... 08:40:05 *** Jerimiah40 [~jerimiah4@h66-244-213-147.pmcnet.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 08:40:33 <AndiK> http://andik.g3th.net/obg_crlf_fix.diff 08:41:08 *** draconnier [~svencanni@ip-83-99-87-187.dyn.luxdsl.pt.lu] has joined #openttd 08:41:42 <planetmaker> :) stupid windows which requires double confirmation for new lines :) 08:42:16 <AndiK> In the olden times: "You just hit return. Do you really want to start a new line? Y/N" 08:42:21 *** Jerimiah40 [~jerimiah4@h66-244-213-147.pmcnet.ca] has joined #openttd 08:42:38 <Forked> "Did you press Y by accident?" 08:47:22 <AndiK> Hm. Is there a big difference for the end user between a debug and a release exe? 08:47:47 *** Brianetta [~brian@client-86-27-115-128.bmly.adsl.virgin.net] has quit [Quit: TschÃŒÃ] 08:48:45 <Rubidium> AndiK: does http://rbijker.net/openttd/better_stupid_windows_newlines_fix.diff work with the unmodified obg files? 08:49:16 <Rubidium> AndiK: depending on the compiler you compile with and the size of the game there could be a big difference (primarily in speed) 08:49:47 <AndiK> okay. 08:50:54 <AndiK> How can I get only certain files from the repo? 08:52:14 <Celestar> hg clone url:///full/url/to/file somefile? 08:53:51 <Ammler> AndiK: but you might use revert... 08:54:40 <AndiK> Revert it is. 08:54:43 <AndiK> Thanks 08:57:16 <AndiK> Rubi: Mercurion doesn't find the ini.cpp in your diff. 08:57:52 <peter1138> It's Mercurial, by the way. 08:57:55 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: peter1138 * r14215 /trunk/src/signs_gui.cpp: -Cleanup (r13866): Strange line wrapping... 08:58:08 <peter1138> Unless there's some other program called Mercurion :o 08:58:09 <AndiK> Mercurial, Mercurion... All the same. ^^ 08:58:27 <AndiK> Maybe I should stick with "hg" - that's easy to remember. 08:59:10 <Rubidium> AndiK: then apply it using patch 08:59:55 *** fjb [~frank@p5485DAAB.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 09:00:02 <fjb> Hello 09:00:04 <AndiK> What patch? svn? 09:00:06 <Celestar> \o 09:00:32 * Celestar thinks we ought to trunkify cargodest asap, otherwise we'll be drowned in stuff in the channel (= 09:01:23 <Rubidium> AndiK: the application that is called patch 09:01:34 <AndiK> Wuh. 09:02:58 <AndiK> And where do I find that? I'm sorry for asking all those stupid questions. ^_^ 09:03:26 <AndiK> Oh 09:04:29 <AndiK> Ah. I'll have a try with the TortoiseSVN patch function 09:05:19 <reldred> Celestar: Yes. Hurry the hell up ;) 09:05:44 <AndiK> Aye. TortoiseSVN did its job 09:06:56 <AndiK> In the beginning, it's hard to get through all the versioning systems and their capabilities... 09:08:59 <AndiK> Compile was successful. 09:10:06 <AndiK> Nope, the parser patch doesn't work. 09:10:36 <AndiK> Same error as before 09:11:07 <Rubidium> what newlines does that file have then? 09:11:23 <Rubidium> it isn't '\n', otherwise it'd've worked 09:11:45 <Rubidium> and '\r\n' should've worked too because '\n' works (at least here) 09:11:50 <Celestar> reldred: (= 09:12:13 <AndiK> Rubi: How do I find that out? 09:12:20 <Rubidium> so it would be '\r' which would mean you're using an ancient mac (which can't run OpenTTD) 09:12:28 <Rubidium> use a hexeditor or so? 09:13:59 <AndiK> I'll get one 09:15:54 <AndiK> Hex code 20 09:15:56 <AndiK> Nothing else 09:16:33 <peter1138> That's a space. 09:16:57 <AndiK> Hm. :-D 09:17:30 <AndiK> Ah. It's 0A, sorry. ^ 09:17:44 <peter1138> 0A or 0A 0D ? 09:17:54 <AndiK> Only 0A 09:17:57 <Rubidium> so that's '\n' 09:18:58 <Rubidium> then it has to work 09:19:08 <Rubidium> as it works without a problem here 09:19:13 <Rubidium> also with '\n' 09:19:37 <AndiK> Hrmpf. 09:21:55 *** Volley [~worf@84-119-53-183.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #openttd 09:24:02 <planetmaker> AndiK: You tried it with your patched obj files? 09:24:31 <planetmaker> or the wrong binary? 09:24:51 <planetmaker> For me personally it would be quite likely to do it wrong that way :P 09:25:59 *** Milloflex [~ABC123@h-87-111.A175.cust.bahnhof.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 09:26:18 <AndiK> I applied Rubidium's patch, then compiled a new binary and recovered the "broken" .obg files. 09:29:49 <AndiK> Right now I'm debugging the file. Question: What is ftell (line 146 in ini.cpp) supposed to do? The parser scans the first line of the file only up to the ; sign. This is intended, I think. In the next call to ReadLine, it seems that the parser thinks that the EOF has been reached and quits. 09:29:54 <TrueBrain> [10:29] * peter1138 prods at TrueBrain <- what can I do for you? :) 09:30:38 <peter1138> Nothing, it's sort now :) 09:30:41 <peter1138> *sorted 09:31:46 <AndiK> if ((size_t)ftell(file) >= file_end) return false; // ftell returns -30. file_end is 860. The function returns false anyway. 09:32:16 *** Doorslammer [Doorslamme@PIPP-p-203-54-115-184.prem.tmns.net.au] has joined #openttd 09:33:33 *** tokai [~tokai@p54B81CA7.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 09:34:20 <peter1138> -30... 09:34:34 <peter1138> (Is an error code) 09:34:57 *** tokai [~tokai@p54B80B38.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 09:34:58 *** mode/#openttd [+v tokai] by ChanServ 09:35:57 <peter1138> #define EROFS 30 /* Read-only file system */ 09:36:00 <peter1138> What? 09:38:21 *** Milloflex [~ABC123@h-87-111.A175.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #openttd 09:39:38 <TrueBrain> peter1138: just that 'ftell' isn't supposed to return that error (ever) :s 09:40:05 <Celestar> I think I fucked it up 09:40:12 <Celestar> > bin/openttd -snull -g bin/save/startup.sav 09:40:12 <Celestar> Floating exception 09:40:19 <TrueBrain> nice job Celestar :) 09:40:37 <Forked> at least it's not drowning.. 09:40:37 <peter1138> Division by zero :D 09:40:57 <roboboy> what is the difference between crash.log and crash.dmp ? 09:41:22 <Rubidium> .log is readable by us, .dmp is readable by msvc 09:41:42 <roboboy> ok so are they essentially the same info? 09:41:53 <Rubidium> no 09:41:57 <roboboy> ok 09:42:24 <Rubidium> they share a small set of information though 09:42:55 <peter1138> Yeah, you credit card numbers are in both. 09:42:57 <peter1138> +r 09:43:23 <TrueBrain> lol @ peter1138 :) 09:50:57 *** mikl [~mikl@84.225.4.23] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 09:53:59 *** Celestar [~Jadzia_Da@p5B0DA424.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 09:57:18 *** Milloflex [~ABC123@h-87-111.A175.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 09:57:44 <AndiK> Hurgh. That's strange. ftell doesn't return -30 because of an error, but because it seems to measure a position of -30. 10:02:02 <AndiK> On every \n, the position counter is reduced by one. If I understand the comment correctly, it's because the (expected) '\r's would otherwise be counted wront. 10:02:04 <AndiK> *wrong 10:02:44 *** lobster_MB [~michielbr@86.89.201.189] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 10:02:46 <AndiK> As there are no '\r's, the calculated position is wrong by the total number of lines in the file. 10:03:21 <AndiK> Possible solution: Don't use ftell? ^^ 10:03:31 *** AndiK is now known as AndiK[away] 10:04:14 <peter1138> Grr, fucking BACS 10:11:03 <roboboy> whats the best way to upgrade an airport easily 10:11:10 <roboboy> its nice and busy 10:11:22 <roboboy> would you say send the planes to a hanger 10:12:20 <Kloopy> You need the "Close airports" patch ;) 10:13:33 <roboboy> but im using cargodest 10:15:43 <AndiK[away]> What is BACS? 10:15:56 *** AndiK[away] is now known as AndiK[half-away] 10:18:03 <peter1138> Banking stuff. 10:18:25 *** lobster_MB [~michielbr@bib-theater33.hku.nl] has joined #openttd 10:18:49 <AndiK[half-away]> Aso. I thought it was something with Windows & Carriage returns 10:19:06 *** Celestar [~Jadzia_Da@129.187.69.65] has joined #openttd 10:21:30 * Celestar wonders why his copy constructor fails 10:22:15 <TrueBrain> Celestar: you should put some love in it :) 10:22:19 <roboboy> off to dinner 10:22:29 <TrueBrain> enjoy roboboy 10:23:17 <SmatZ> Celestar: maybe you forgot to add "const" to parameter? 10:23:31 <Celestar> SmatZ: nope 10:23:47 *** Volley [~worf@84-119-53-183.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:23:47 <Celestar> SmatZ: apparently, copy-constructing pool items is not a good idea 10:24:08 <TrueBrain> Celestar: why would you want that anyway 10:24:46 <AndiK[half-away]> 'coz he can 10:24:51 <AndiK[half-away]> Or can he? ^^ 10:25:39 <Celestar> TrueBrain: src/cargopacket.cpp:220 ... that should be copy-constructed 10:26:48 <Rubidium> Celestar: and it then automatically adds itself to the right list? 10:26:58 <peter1138> ++it ? 10:27:13 <peter1138> Oh, 220 in trunk :) 10:27:49 <Celestar> Rubidium: no, but we 1) would have less assignemnts right below it, making the code more readable, and 2) increase speed. 10:29:01 *** Doorslammer [Doorslamme@PIPP-p-203-54-115-184.prem.tmns.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 10:29:23 <Rubidium> only 2 assignments more 10:29:49 <Celestar> it was just a thought 10:29:57 <Celestar> because I'd basically need a copy constructor in the pool 10:29:57 <Rubidium> and why would it be faster if it memcpy-ies the whole thing first and then overwrites more than half? 10:30:16 <Celestar> because currently it assigns all the members and then overwrites all? 10:30:41 <Celestar> but I'm not going to write a copy constructor for the pool thing (= 10:30:45 * Celestar goes doing something else 10:31:05 <Celestar> like 10:31:13 <Celestar> who can encode me some sprite into openttd.grf? (= 10:31:22 <peter1138> You can. 10:31:27 *** Doorslammer [Doorslamme@PIPP-p-203-54-229-81.prem.tmns.net.au] has joined #openttd 10:31:30 <peter1138> 's not hard. 10:31:33 <Celestar> yeah 10:31:36 *** Volley [~worf@84-119-53-183.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #openttd 10:31:42 <Celestar> but I'd need to find my grfcodec somewhere :P 10:31:43 <Celestar> will do so 10:31:55 <Rubidium> begin by svn checkout svn://svn.openttd.org/extra/ottd_grf 10:32:14 *** Milloflex [~ABC123@h-87-111.A175.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #openttd 10:32:40 *** Yexo [~Yexo@32-88-ftth.onsneteindhoven.nl] has joined #openttd 10:33:18 *** AndiK[half-away] is now known as AndiK 10:33:38 <Celestar> I see 10:36:29 *** Volley [~worf@84-119-53-183.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:37:55 *** LordAzamath [~hailong@82.131.17.255.cable.starman.ee] has joined #openttd 10:38:37 <Celestar> peter1138: how could we make the routing-minimap remember its settings? 10:39:13 <peter1138> static 10:39:29 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1E413.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 10:39:34 <peter1138> Or store the shown cargo types in a static uint32... 10:40:00 *** Gekz [~brendan@123-243-206-102.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 10:40:15 *** Volley [~worf@84-119-53-183.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #openttd 10:42:08 *** Milloflex [~ABC123@h-87-111.A175.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 10:42:34 *** welshdragon [~desk@host81-157-252-208.range81-157.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 10:43:00 <Celestar> who's going to do that (= 10:43:10 * Celestar resumes work@work 10:45:06 * AndiK leaves for an exam 10:45:15 *** welshdragon [~desk@host81-157-252-208.range81-157.btcentralplus.com] has quit [] 10:45:28 <AndiK> See ya! 10:46:13 *** davis- [~asd@p5B28BA91.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 10:46:27 *** AndiK [~Haahaa@dslb-088-064-061-047.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: Pragmatisch, praktisch, gut] 10:46:38 *** LordAzamath [~hailong@82.131.17.255.cable.starman.ee] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 10:46:43 *** Sacro [~Ben@adsl-83-100-155-14.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd 10:47:14 *** welshdragon [~vista@host81-157-252-208.range81-157.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 10:48:10 <peter1138> Celestar, http://svn.bucks.net/~petern/smallmap.diff 10:48:57 *** Mortal [~mortal@0x573a3da2.odnqu1.static.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #openttd 10:49:16 *** Mortal [~mortal@0x573a3da2.odnqu1.static.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [] 10:49:25 *** welshdragon [~vista@host81-157-252-208.range81-157.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:49:28 <Celestar> peter1138: well, you wanna commit it? (= 10:49:43 *** welshdragon [~vista@host81-157-252-208.range81-157.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 10:52:32 *** lobster_MB [~michielbr@bib-theater33.hku.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 10:53:02 <peter1138> No, I've not tested it. 10:55:19 *** Swallow [~chatzilla@5355F5FD.cable.casema.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 10:56:17 <Celestar> peter1138: good point, it's not working :P 10:56:43 *** Gekz [~brendan@123-243-206-102.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #openttd 10:56:44 *** Doorslammer [Doorslamme@PIPP-p-203-54-229-81.prem.tmns.net.au] has quit [] 10:56:55 *** Gekz [~brendan@123-243-206-102.static.tpgi.com.au] has left #openttd [] 10:57:12 *** Gekz [~brendan@123-243-206-102.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #openttd 10:58:33 <peter1138> ,...,...,...,...,...,...,...ToggleBit(this->cargo_types, _legend_routemap[click_pos].type); 10:58:41 <peter1138> That should fix it. 10:58:58 *** lobster_MB [~michielbr@194.171.202.149] has joined #openttd 11:01:40 <peter1138> Unless it's not working for some other reason, heh... 11:02:03 <roboboy> back 11:02:36 <Celestar> :P 11:03:02 <peter1138> What? 11:05:57 <Celestar> Enable/Disable all needs handling apparently :P 11:07:36 <SmatZ> peter1138: when CP is split at cargopacket.cpp : 220, new_cp->feeder_share + cp->feeder_share != "old cp->feeder_share", is it ok? 11:09:12 <Celestar> SmatZ: no it's not. I'm already working on that (= 11:09:26 <SmatZ> ok 11:09:43 <SmatZ> good :) 11:10:50 <Celestar> SmatZ: suggestion: newfs = oldfs * (count / cp->count); oldfs = oldfs * ( 1 - count/cp->count) ? 11:11:04 <Celestar> peter1138: it works now (= want to commit it or should I do it (= 11:12:12 <SmatZ> Celestar: I would prefer multiply before division, if there isn't any chance of overflow 11:12:16 <Celestar> yeah 11:12:44 <Celestar> SmatZ: feedershare is of type Money, thus overflow-safe 11:12:55 <SmatZ> new_cp->feeder_share = cp->feeder_share * count / cp->count; 11:12:57 <SmatZ> yeah 11:13:03 <Celestar> SmatZ: wanna commit it? 11:13:07 <SmatZ> cp->feeder_share -= new_cp->feeder_share; 11:13:16 <SmatZ> I think it could work this way :) 11:13:17 *** Jerimiah40 [~jerimiah4@h66-244-213-147.pmcnet.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:13:27 <SmatZ> no no it's your work :) 11:14:20 *** Jerimiah40 [~jerimiah4@h66-244-213-147.pmcnet.ca] has joined #openttd 11:14:43 <SmatZ> CargoPacket *cp_new = new CargoPacket(); 11:14:59 <SmatZ> I wonder if there should be a check for failed allocation 11:15:05 *** Swallow [~chatzilla@5355F5FD.cable.casema.nl] has joined #openttd 11:15:10 <Celestar> doesn't new do that? 11:15:13 <SmatZ> (I think it should) 11:15:26 <SmatZ> Celestar: operator new is overloaded by OldPool 11:15:39 <Celestar> yes 11:15:43 <SmatZ> so it can return NULL if there are too many items in the pool 11:15:57 <Celestar> hm .. 11:16:01 <Celestar> it CAN return NULL, correct 11:16:11 <Celestar> what do we do in that case? 11:16:18 <SmatZ> crash ... 11:16:24 <Celestar> crash, assert or error out gratefully? 11:16:27 <Celestar> I mean what SHOULD we do (= 11:16:41 <SmatZ> :-) I think that part of cargo could be lost or so... 11:17:44 <peter1138> Just make the index 64 bits ;) 11:17:46 <Celestar> I'm going ahead with that smallmap diff, peter1138 k? 11:18:57 <SmatZ> http://devs.openttd.org/~smatz/cp.diff this way :) 11:19:50 <Celestar> SmatZ: looks better, but at least throw a DEBUG0-level message when we couldn't allocate more cargo 11:19:57 <SmatZ> :) even 32bit is most likely to be enough in all cases, yes :) 11:20:18 <Celestar> how large can the cargopacket pool at the moment? 11:20:30 <Celestar> 16 bit or 32 bit? 11:20:43 <SmatZ> typedef uint32 CargoPacketID; 11:20:50 <SmatZ> so 32bit... 11:21:06 <Celestar> :O 11:21:14 <peter1138> 65535 packets overflowed a long time ago. 11:21:17 <Celestar> DECLARE_OLD_POOL(CargoPacket, CargoPacket, 10, 1000) 11:21:40 <peter1138> 1 million packets? Hah 11:21:54 <Celestar> that's a million cargopackets 11:21:58 <Celestar> this isn't TOO much with cargodest methinks 11:22:05 * Celestar goes looking 11:22:20 <peter1138> Well, just increase the 1000... 11:23:25 <Celestar> dbg: [misc] [Pool] (CargoPacket) increasing size of pool to 13312 items (425984 bytes) 11:23:28 <Celestar> hm ok ... 11:23:44 <Celestar> half a meg :P 11:25:08 <Celestar> 32 bytes per cargopacket 11:26:22 <Celestar> 8 money, 4 sourcexy, 4 loadedatxy, 2 source, 2 count, 1 dit, 1 paid_for, 10 unused :P 11:27:12 <Celestar> er 4 for the CargoPacketID 11:27:29 <Celestar> 6 unused 11:27:40 <SmatZ> bool is 4bit 11:27:44 <SmatZ> *4byte 11:27:54 <SmatZ> at most architectures 11:29:11 <Celestar> SmatZ: afaik only on Mac 11:29:27 <SmatZ> Celestar: try sizeof(bool) at your PC :) 11:29:46 <peter1138> print sizeof(bool) 11:29:46 <peter1138> = 1 11:29:52 <SmatZ> hmm 11:29:54 <SmatZ> ok 11:29:56 <SmatZ> sorry :) 11:29:57 <Celestar> MEH 11:30:04 <Celestar> gcc can't read from stdin?! 11:30:09 * SmatZ runs in shame 11:31:32 *** Mortal [~mortal@0x573a3da2.odnqu1.static.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #openttd 11:31:50 <Celestar> if you use an std::vector<bool>, the bool is one bit in size 11:31:59 <Celestar> because std::vector uses bitmaps for bools 11:32:45 <SmatZ> yeah 11:33:20 <SmatZ> but that's not performance effective in some cases 11:33:53 <Celestar> in most cases :P 11:35:59 <SmatZ> :) 11:38:49 <SmatZ> I wonder why I thought bool is 32bit :-/ 11:38:53 <SmatZ> hmm 11:39:02 <Celestar> SmatZ: cuz it is on MacOSX afaik 11:39:58 <SmatZ> Celestar: googling shows it is, yeah :) and also MS's BOOL is in fact int... 11:40:34 <SmatZ> possibly in C-ages, bool was always typedeffed as int, so that's where I learned that... 11:42:46 *** Jerimiah40 [~jerimiah4@h66-244-213-147.pmcnet.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:42:57 <Ammler> what are those pseudo sprites for in trg1r? 11:43:19 *** Swallow [~chatzilla@5355F5FD.cable.casema.nl] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.83 [Firefox 3.0.1/2008070208]] 11:43:24 <blathijs> SmatZ: Actually, in C89 there is no such type as bool 11:43:40 <blathijs> SmatZ: And in practice, bools are usually stored in a 32bit memory or register 11:44:27 *** Jerimiah40 [~jerimiah4@h66-244-213-147.pmcnet.ca] has joined #openttd 11:48:22 <Celestar> how are those realistic timetables? 11:54:59 *** KritiK [~Maxim@78-106-215-246.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #openttd 11:56:27 <Celestar> where are my testers? :D 11:59:34 <Celestar> Ammler: Forked: http://www.fvfischer.de/sourceview.png <= is this any good? 12:01:27 <Ammler> :-P 12:01:50 <Ammler> I mostly use only the tree view to check where the waiting pass likes to go 12:02:01 <roboboy> which testers? 12:02:03 <Ammler> and via... 12:02:56 <roboboy> ive reported a crash that was already reported 12:03:20 <Ammler> there are 3 locations now to report :-) 12:03:29 <Ammler> wiki, tt-forums and FS 12:05:12 <Celestar> noce this is trunkified, everything will go to FS (= 12:07:08 *** LordAzamath [~hailong@82.131.17.255.cable.starman.ee] has joined #openttd 12:07:32 <roboboy> I think I gave a bit more info on my report for the crash though 12:07:36 <Ammler> yeah, usually not before :-) 12:07:39 *** lobster_MB [~michielbr@194.171.202.149] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 12:08:10 <Ammler> wiki talk page should be used for discussion content of the page 12:08:19 <Ammler> article 12:08:37 <roboboy> thats what I thought 12:08:41 <Ammler> so it would be only the tt-forums left :-) 12:09:04 <LordAzamath> lo 12:09:10 <peter1138> Ammler, colour remapping. 12:09:21 *** LordAzamath is now known as LA 12:09:24 * roboboy wonders why im getting warnings telling me that train 0 is old or getting very/old 12:09:32 <roboboy> why he is 12:09:37 *** lobster_MB [~michielbr@bib-theater42.hku.nl] has joined #openttd 12:09:40 <Ammler> peter1138: answer to my grf question, I assume... 12:09:44 <peter1138> Yeah 12:09:47 <roboboy> brb 12:10:01 <peter1138> Celestar, they're not "realistic" 12:10:12 <peter1138> Celestar, they are an improvement, however. 12:10:55 <roboboy> back 12:15:04 *** M4rk [~M4rk@5351EE2E.cable.casema.nl] has joined #openttd 12:15:13 *** lobster_MB [~michielbr@bib-theater42.hku.nl] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 12:16:00 <Celestar> peter1138: how's the code? 12:16:02 *** M4rk [~M4rk@5351EE2E.cable.casema.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:16:04 *** M4rk [~M4rk@5351EE2E.cable.casema.nl] has joined #openttd 12:16:10 *** M4rk is now known as Mark 12:16:27 <peter1138> I didn't look. 12:16:53 *** LA [~hailong@82.131.17.255.cable.starman.ee] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.83 [Firefox 3.0.1/2008070208]] 12:18:07 <eekee> grrr. trains using yapp should not turn around unless a blocked path will result in them turning straight back around again. 12:18:31 *** Pikkaa [PikkaBird@58.173.248.50] has joined #openttd 12:20:06 <eekee> in particular having a train wait for free path when it's only option is the reverse side of a one-way advanced signal is a pain 12:21:18 *** lobster_MB [~michielbr@bib-theater42.hku.nl] has joined #openttd 12:22:04 <Celestar> eekee: or a one-way normal signal 12:22:23 <eekee> yeah 12:22:35 <eekee> hmm tricky 12:22:43 <Celestar> maybe we could ask michi_cc :) 12:24:01 <eekee> I think I could timetable things so the trains don't reverse, but I don't like mucking about with timetables. forcing the wait_for_pbs_path option so trains don't reverse at all causes other problems 12:24:21 *** Pikka [PikkaBird@58.173.248.50] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 12:24:33 *** |Bastiaan| [~Bastiaan@dsl-087-195-031-183.solcon.nl] has joined #openttd 12:24:36 *** Brianetta [~brian@client-86-27-115-128.bmly.adsl.virgin.net] has joined #openttd 12:24:55 <Brianetta> You know what would be cool? Towns building drive-through bus stops. 12:25:05 <eekee> yeah ^^' 12:25:12 <Gekz> O.o! 12:25:13 <Gekz> NO 12:25:14 <peter1138> Why? 12:25:17 <Gekz> That's naughty. 12:25:24 <Brianetta> Especially with cargo destinations. Passengers could change between companies there (: 12:25:28 <Gekz> what would be cool is buses pulling over at busstops 12:25:30 <Gekz> so cars can still pass 12:25:31 <Gekz> >_> 12:25:39 <Celestar> You know what would be cool? DTRS on slopes 12:25:44 <Brianetta> Gekz: That Never Happens. 12:25:48 <Celestar> and DTRS that DON'T BLOCK the whole road 12:25:56 <Gekz> DTRS? 12:26:02 <Gekz> :< Screw acronyms 12:26:05 <Brianetta> Bus stops where I live block the whole road... 12:26:05 <Celestar> drive through road stops 12:26:12 <Celestar> Brianetta: what backwater is that? 12:26:15 <Celestar> :D 12:26:17 <Gekz> Celestar: oh 12:26:18 <Brianetta> Jarrow! 12:26:21 <Gekz> you just said what I just said then 12:26:24 <Brianetta> Th ebusstation is non-blocking 12:26:39 <Gekz> Celestar: make the busses go off the road :) 12:26:45 <Brianetta> but basically, many bus stops are just a pole with a flagsign at the top 12:27:01 <Brianetta> sometimes with a yellow BUS STOP box painted into the road 12:27:02 <peter1138> Bah, I can't find those LED/switch motherboard connectors on Maplin's site :( 12:27:07 <Gekz> busstops in Australia are light posts with a sticker on them 12:27:09 <Gekz> lol 12:27:33 <Brianetta> Some have a lay-by, but not all 12:27:45 <eekee> same here lol 12:27:59 <Brianetta> and such lay-bys are not easy to build unless they're there form the time of construction of the road 12:28:37 <eekee> they're much easier here. cars are merely not allowed to park on the bus stops. Instant lay-by on 90% of town roads 12:29:16 *** Jerimiah40 [~jerimiah4@h66-244-213-147.pmcnet.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 12:29:16 <Brianetta> In Newcastle, many cycle lanes are interrupted for bus stops. 12:29:19 <Brianetta> It's ludicrous. 12:29:29 <Gekz> o.o 12:29:38 <Gekz> buses are more important 12:29:43 <Gekz> they carry more people than a bicycle. 12:29:57 <Brianetta> They pollute more than a bicycle, too 12:30:04 <Brianetta> and they are far more resistant to imnpact 12:30:09 <Gekz> not as much as if each person drove a car 12:30:19 <Brianetta> Who brought cars into this? 12:30:22 <Gekz> me. 12:30:27 <Gekz> you brought up pollution 12:30:30 <Brianetta> Shall we compare bicycles to cars? 12:30:34 <Gekz> lol 12:30:35 <Brianetta> They'll still win 12:30:43 <Gekz> bicycles are terrible for long distances. 12:30:44 <eekee> busses are useful for people who can't/don't have a car or who can't cycle to their destination, but as economic entities they SUCK 12:30:46 *** Jerimiah40 [~jerimiah4@h66-244-213-147.pmcnet.ca] has joined #openttd 12:31:19 * Celestar just got an EVIL idea 12:31:20 <Brianetta> Trams and inner city elevated monorails. 12:31:23 <Brianetta> That's the solution. 12:31:35 <Gekz> Trams? 12:31:41 <Gekz> a permanent fixture on a road 12:31:45 <Gekz> that takes up yet more space 12:31:51 <Gekz> with a fixed route 12:31:54 <Brianetta> http://images.google.co.uk/images?hl=en&q=sydney+monorail&btnG=Search+Images&gbv=2 12:32:03 <Celestar> limit the speed in YAPP blocks that are not safe waiting locations to 100km/h :P 12:32:07 <Brianetta> Gekz: They're less polluting, and more predictable 12:32:12 <Gekz> that monorail is quite useless tbh 12:32:20 <Gekz> it's for tourists 12:32:36 <Celestar> or just limit the speeds on switches in general 12:32:48 <Gekz> Celestar: its a suicide mission! 12:32:52 <peter1138> What about my high-speed junctions? 12:33:03 <Brianetta> Celestar: How do you tell a safe waiting location apart from a block without one? 12:33:16 <eekee> trams get stuck in traffic, involved in collisions and =I think= actually cost as much to install as elevated monorail 12:33:24 <Celestar> Brianetta: I wasn't 100% serious about it 12:33:38 <Gekz> busses are still cheaper 12:33:44 <Gekz> and less useless in Australia 12:33:49 <Gekz> where the population is sparse 12:33:51 <Celestar> Brianetta: but think of it. Trains usually don't cross the "big junction" in front of a terminal station with maximum speed (and that's nothing to do with the station being there) 12:33:56 <Rubidium> Celestar: then new operator may, by specs, never return NULL 12:34:29 <Celestar> Rubidium: our overloaded operator in oldpool might? 12:35:03 <Rubidium> Celestar: it won't 12:35:25 <Rubidium> cause at OOM it goes BOOM 12:35:31 <Celestar> Rubidium: what happens if no more pool items can be allocated? 12:35:37 <Celestar> not OOM ... pool limit .. 12:35:57 <welshdragon> Brianetta, are your buses as posh as http://www.ukbusawards.org.uk/content/images/stories/Harrogate.gif? 12:35:58 <Brianetta> Celestar: I'd say a train should slow when it crosses more than one junction at once 12:36:02 <Brianetta> Even if they're on the same tile 12:36:07 <Rubidium> for cargopackets it'll do the wrong thing I reckon 12:36:11 <Brianetta> That way, a "high speed switch" can still be used 12:36:20 <Rubidium> the rest checks whether there's space before it try too create them 12:36:36 <Celestar> Brianetta: something like that 12:36:40 <Brianetta> welshdragon: That's a Wright Gemini 12:36:42 <Brianetta> and yes 12:36:55 <Celestar> Brianetta: high-speed switches are rare. Especially on the "splitting" (correct term?) track 12:37:00 <welshdragon> but it's a special bus 12:37:01 <Brianetta> In fact, those are getting old and there are nicer buses around here 12:37:30 <Brianetta> welshdragon: It's not special, it's common as mutt 12:37:31 <Celestar> dunno if there are any high-speed switch with more than 250km/h in the world 12:37:32 <Brianetta> http://www.wrightbus.com/site/default.asp 12:37:52 <Brianetta> Celestar: Not that rare. Our mainlines have them. 12:38:00 <peter1138> You could limit the junction speed based on the number of connections on it. 12:38:05 <Brianetta> SOmetimes, sure, they flip a train into a nearby hill... 12:38:07 *** glx [glx@bny93-6-82-245-156-124.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #openttd 12:38:08 *** mode/#openttd [+v glx] by ChanServ 12:38:10 <Brianetta> ...but they work most of the time. 12:38:21 <Celestar> Brianetta: well, > 160km/h on the splitting line? 12:38:27 <Brianetta> peter1138: I was thinking number of connections under the train at once 12:38:38 <Rubidium> Celestar: they have those in Japan :) 12:38:42 <Celestar> Rubidium: rare. 12:38:45 <Brianetta> Celestar: Yes. 200kmh running. 12:38:59 <Celestar> Brianetta: oh. I thought on the straight part only 12:39:08 <Rubidium> Celestar: well, basically every "small" Shinkansen station has a couple of them 12:39:13 <peter1138> What about that grade crossing? heh 12:39:16 <Brianetta> Yes; a train that's actually switching slows down 12:39:21 <Brianetta> *but* 12:39:28 <Brianetta> it woul dhave more than one connection under the wheels 12:39:30 <Celestar> Rubidium: yes, but not only on the straight tracks. 12:39:34 <Brianetta> which ties with my suggestion 12:39:45 <Forked> Celestar: (late reply) .. sourceview.png - I only use the view where I see people are going (to D via C via B via A). So far I don't really care where they originate, as long as they get where they want to go asap 12:40:37 <Celestar> peter1138: grade crossings are limited to 160km/h in Germany. There are few per-instance-exceptions for 200km/h 12:41:32 <Celestar> well, the 200km/h permission has been dropped in 1992. I'm not up-to-date 12:42:05 *** welshdragon is now known as welshdra-gone 12:42:31 <peter1138> I can't remember where it is :o 12:42:56 *** Jerimiah40 [~jerimiah4@h66-244-213-147.pmcnet.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 12:43:14 <roboboy> gnight 12:43:46 <peter1138> Why does eBay keep giving me a list of tractors... 12:43:46 * Celestar fails to see the difference between 200km/h and 160km/h when a 500-ton IC crashes into the side of your car. You're likely to be goo anyway 12:44:26 <Brianetta> Celestar: It's all about how far down the line they have to retrieve your remains. 12:44:32 <eekee> peter1138: you checked the prices of them once? someone hacked your account and saved a search for tractors? :D 12:44:53 <Celestar> :S 12:45:31 <Celestar> Trivia: the ICE-line from Munich to Stuttgart has a minimum curve radius of about? 2400m, 1200m, 600m, 300m ? 12:46:05 <Rubidium> Celestar: the correct term for the result of such collisions is "that's toast" (J. Clarkson) 12:46:30 *** Jerimiah40 [~jerimiah4@h66-244-213-147.pmcnet.ca] has joined #openttd 12:46:52 *** lobster_MB [~michielbr@bib-theater42.hku.nl] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 12:47:25 <Brianetta> Bah, *that* collision looked more spectacular because the car had no engine 12:47:32 <Brianetta> They didn't want to break the loco 12:47:36 <Brianetta> or derail it 12:48:42 *** roboboy [3aad2910@67.207.141.120] has quit [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client] 12:48:43 <Celestar> timeout of trivia. you lose. :P 12:48:59 <Rubidium> Brianetta: but that was only going 100 km/h, not 200 km/h ;) 12:49:43 <Brianetta> I suspect if it was 200 they'd have need kevlar umbrellas. 12:53:20 *** lobster_MB [~michielbr@bib-theater42.hku.nl] has joined #openttd 12:53:35 * Celestar wonders whether realistic acceleration is too .. gentle .. with curve speed limits 12:53:57 <Gekz> Celestar: stop breaking the matrix 12:54:01 <Gekz> it's unacceptable 12:54:02 <Gekz> :< 12:55:02 <Brianetta> Celestar: It's not too gentle, and in the future when trains know to slow down in advance, curves will be slower as a result. 12:55:29 <Kloopy> Trains are going to do that in the future? 12:55:47 <Brianetta> I look forward to that wonderful day in the future where our trains can SPAD because they had no time to stop. (: 12:56:00 <Celestar> Brianetta: sounds reasonable 12:56:02 <Celestar> Brianetta: SPAD? 12:56:10 <Celestar> Kloopy: yeah they will 12:56:25 <Brianetta> Signal passed at danger 12:56:28 <Celestar> ah 12:56:42 *** stillunknown [~stillunkn@82-136-225-75.ip.telfort.nl] has joined #openttd 12:56:44 <Kloopy> Is someone coding a decent "look ahead" for trains, then? 12:57:03 <Rubidium> it already looks hundreds of km ahead ;) 12:57:11 <peter1138> "realistic" acceleration sucks. 12:57:25 <Celestar> Kloopy: YAPP _is_ a decent look ahead. It's just not being used for that purpose 12:57:28 <Celestar> peter1138: the reason being? 12:57:36 <peter1138> It's not ;) 12:57:37 <Brianetta> Magic brakes. 12:57:51 <Brianetta> Trains slow down in a lovely way for a station stop 12:58:00 <Rubidium> Celestar: realistic being less realistic than the non-realistic acceleration (according to some train drivers) 12:58:05 <Brianetta> but come a red light, they just let the passengers pile into the driver's cab 12:58:32 <Kloopy> Rubidium, Celestar: So it's not far from realistic (de|a)cceleration, then? eg slowing down before red signals. 12:58:37 *** Jerimiah40 [~jerimiah4@h66-244-213-147.pmcnet.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 12:58:57 <Celestar> Kloopy: someone 'just' needs to do it 12:59:04 <Celestar> but methinks yapp has all the capability that is needed 12:59:12 <Celestar> except a guestimation of the brake distance 12:59:31 <Rubidium> Celestar: I hope any train can stop in 686 km :) 12:59:40 <Celestar> (maybe increase by 50% above snow line) 12:59:43 <Celestar> Rubidium: why 686km? 12:59:52 <Kloopy> Perhaps the train drivers could use trial and error. They could break less and less hard each time they approach a red singal until their bodies stop turning into mush because of the extreme G forces. 13:00:08 *** Jerimiah40 [~jerimiah4@h66-244-213-147.pmcnet.ca] has joined #openttd 13:00:09 <Rubidium> Celestar: http://wiki.openttd.org/index.php/Game_mechanics#Vehicle_speeds 13:01:00 <Kloopy> haha Rubidium. When you put it like that, it's perfect as it is :P 13:01:07 <Tefad> doesn't that also mean that the vehicles are huge as hell 13:01:15 <Kloopy> lol, yes. 13:01:29 <Kloopy> A passenger carriage is about 215miles long. 13:01:30 <Rubidium> Tefad: no, because the length of vehicles isn't measured in km/h 13:01:44 <Tefad> yes but it is 686km per tile 13:01:57 <Tefad> that means each vehicle is tens of km long 13:02:00 <Rubidium> graphically a tile is 10 to a few hundred meters long 13:02:24 <Kloopy> You'd be a bit upset if a carriage 343km long pull in to the platform and there were only doors at each end, none in the middle. :/ 13:02:24 <Tefad> hehe. 13:02:25 *** Milloflex [~ABC123@h-87-111.A175.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #openttd 13:02:30 <eekee> haha 13:02:59 <Tefad> the reality in which the game exists is quite amusing and distorted 13:03:08 <eekee> yeah 13:03:12 <Tefad> for a while, air travel was several factors slower than ground 13:03:36 <Celestar> Rubidium: yeah yeah 13:04:33 <Celestar> for me: A tile is 50mx50m for graphical reasons, 500mx500m for airports, and 5000mx5000m when it comes to map/town size 13:05:11 <peter1138> I want to see more urban sprawl. 13:05:29 <Tefad> move to suburbia? 13:05:36 <Celestar> but not before we have SOME way to transport passengers into and out of cities 13:05:52 <peter1138> buses... trams... 13:05:54 <Celestar> either underground stations, or the possibilty to move roads .. 13:06:03 <Celestar> remove* 13:06:18 <eekee> I remove roads all the time, it's a patch option 13:06:33 <Celestar> connected roads 13:06:44 *** Fuco [~dota.keys@ip-105.imafexbb.sk] has joined #openttd 13:06:47 <eekee> yep yep 13:07:11 <eekee> still difficult to get a station into the center of town 13:07:23 <Kloopy> ..it would be in real life. 13:08:25 <Tefad> not really 13:08:28 *** fonso [~fonso@brln-d9bac5f3.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 13:08:42 <Tefad> there's a station downtown here that has a rail crossing in it. 13:08:43 <eekee> true. passenger destinations would help, althouhg honestly even stations part-way in can get swamped with passengers as things are 13:08:53 <Tefad> plus a small yard 13:09:00 <Tefad> right off main street : ) 13:09:19 <eekee> well if the town grows around the station you're alright 13:10:14 <eekee> hmm shouldn't stations be ok under bridges? 13:10:23 <eekee> I have to go, but been wanting to ask that for ages :) 13:10:48 <Tefad> probably but i doubt the game would like it 13:11:26 <eekee> well anything else track-ish can go under. oh, station canopies couldn't go under 13:12:12 *** welshdra-gone [~vista@host81-157-252-208.range81-157.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 13:12:16 *** Jerimiah40 [~jerimiah4@h66-244-213-147.pmcnet.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 13:14:32 <fjb> How does a 32bpp GRF get created? 13:14:50 <peter1138> It doesn't. 13:15:48 <Kloopy> That is the world WORST joke. 13:15:58 *** Jerimiah40 [~jerimiah4@h66-244-213-147.pmcnet.ca] has joined #openttd 13:15:59 <Kloopy> Punch line fail. 13:16:05 <peter1138> ... 13:18:07 <peter1138> fjb, GRF only supports 8bpp. 32bpp is done by providing PNGs, numbered appropriately for the GRF. 13:18:08 <fjb> Hm, how it it done? Just putting PNGs into a tar? But where does the programming logic for that graphics go? 13:18:34 <peter1138> If you want a 32bpp only GRF, you'll need to provide dummy 8bpp sprites. 13:19:31 <fjb> A standard 8bit GRF + an aditional tar with the 32bpp sprites? 13:20:28 *** reldred is now known as reldred|gone 13:22:37 *** lobster_MB [~michielbr@bib-theater42.hku.nl] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 13:24:57 *** shodan [user@ppp101-219.static.internode.on.net] has joined #openttd 13:31:12 <peter1138> Yes. 13:34:51 <Kloopy> Celestar, peter1138: What's the stability of cargodests with regard to multiplayer desyncs at the moment? 13:36:28 <Celestar> Kloopy: closing in on 100% 13:36:43 <Celestar> Kloopy: we've had 3 tests. 13:36:52 <Kloopy> Awesome news :) 13:37:11 *** lobster_MB [~michielbr@dhcp-077-251-157-101.chello.nl] has joined #openttd 13:37:19 <Celestar> first was a fiasco. second and third had a single problem which is (hopefully) fixed ... worked around ... 13:37:27 <Kloopy> hehe 13:37:47 <Celestar> peter1138: I'm still wondering whether to keep resetting the whole routing system when a station-xy is changed. 13:37:57 <Celestar> then again, it's not really slower than anything else 13:38:11 <Celestar> it just looks ... clumsy :P 13:39:40 *** yorick [~Yorick@s55924da0.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has joined #openttd 13:40:19 <Celestar> Kloopy: there will be a large openttdcoop test this week. wanna join? 13:40:43 <Kloopy> Depends when it is, I've got my Mum's birthday and two TF2 clan matches this week. :) 13:40:56 <Kloopy> But if I am free, I would love to join. 13:41:45 <Celestar> We plan to start wednesday 13:41:54 <Kloopy> ok 13:41:58 <Celestar> 1500UTCish 13:42:03 <Celestar> or 1500ish UTC? 13:42:28 <Celestar> Kloopy: can you compile? 13:43:31 <Kloopy> Yeah 13:44:20 <Kloopy> I haven't installed hg or boost before, but it can't be hard :P 13:44:28 <Kloopy> Last time I compiled, it was a straight trunk build from svn. 13:44:53 <Celestar> heh 13:45:05 <Celestar> it actually MIGHT work with buildottd 13:45:18 <Forked> oh? 13:45:24 *** lobster_MB [~michielbr@dhcp-077-251-157-101.chello.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 13:45:34 <Forked> give svn link and I'll try :) 13:45:56 <Celestar> http://mz.openttdcoop.org/dev/redirect.php?patch 13:46:04 <Celestar> you need boost installed ... somewhere :P 13:46:17 *** lobster_MB [~michielbr@82-171-89-81.ip.telfort.nl] has joined #openttd 13:46:25 <Celestar> this assumes revision 14214, Forked 13:46:57 <Forked> okies 13:47:02 <Forked> sorta figured from the filename :) 13:47:15 <Celestar> heh 13:47:18 <Celestar> dunno the filename 13:47:25 <Forked> rn14214.diff =p 13:47:42 <Celestar> oh P 13:53:23 <Kloopy> Is the desync due to autoreplace/renew fixed? I think it was recoded wasn't it? 13:54:00 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r14216 /branches/0.6/ (14 files in 4 dirs): [0.6] -Backport from trunk: makefile/installer changes to support the new compile farm. 13:55:45 <Celestar> Kloopy: it was? 13:55:58 <Kloopy> Maybe not, then :( 13:56:26 <Celestar> Kloopy: was it cargodest-related or general? 13:56:30 <Kloopy> General 13:56:42 <Kloopy> Yeah, r14083 13:59:03 <Celestar> if it was fixed back then, it's working (= 13:59:18 <Kloopy> :) 13:59:25 <peter1138> 100% sure? 14:02:33 <Celestar> dunno I don't mess with autoreplace 14:02:37 <Celestar> (yet) 14:02:48 <Celestar> I'll talk to frosch later on and test some things myself 14:03:03 <Celestar> http://www.fvfischer.de/profile.txt 14:03:07 <Celestar> *sigh* 14:05:48 *** lobster_MB [~michielbr@82-171-89-81.ip.telfort.nl] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 14:06:52 <peter1138> Sigh? 14:07:45 <Celestar> peter1138: blitter ... (= 14:09:07 <peter1138> Change your resolution :) 14:12:27 <SmatZ> interesting, maybe even 8bpp blitter should be optimized even more 14:12:58 <peter1138> Compilers can optimize everything ;) 14:13:05 <Celestar> SmatZ: that's a 200 vehicle game with cargodest on (= 14:13:35 <SmatZ> :) 14:25:53 *** shodan [user@ppp101-219.static.internode.on.net] has quit [Quit: Client Exiting] 14:27:06 <peter1138> Have you removed all the std:: stuff yet, SmatZ? ;) 14:27:36 <SmatZ> peter1138: not... though I have "SmallMap" ready for several weeks :) 14:29:00 <Celestar> what smallmap? 14:29:28 <dih> @seen Brianetta 14:29:28 <DorpsGek> dih: Brianetta was last seen in #openttd 1 hour, 31 minutes, and 22 seconds ago: <Brianetta> but come a red light, they just let the passengers pile into the driver's cab 14:29:33 <dih> pft 14:29:40 <dih> he's ignoring me :P 14:29:44 <SmatZ> Celestar: replacing std::map, works better for maps with few items 14:30:07 <SmatZ> that are usually in OTTD (drivers, towns affected by exectuing a command) 14:30:25 <Brianetta> dih: I ignore activity on coop.members in general 14:30:30 <dih> oh 14:30:34 <dih> even highlights? 14:30:44 <SmatZ> :-( 14:30:48 <Brianetta> Yes. They're usually autopilots after people say !version 14:31:03 <dih> not in that channel :-P 14:31:08 <dih> at least not anymore :-P 14:31:15 <dih> no more autopilots in there 14:31:17 * Brianetta shrugs 14:31:31 <dih> moved to another channel 14:31:38 <Brianetta> Here's where the conversation is. 14:31:54 <dih> about autopilot development? 14:31:59 <dih> hehe 14:32:01 <Brianetta> About openttd 14:32:08 *** Sacro [~Ben@adsl-83-100-155-14.karoo.KCOM.COM] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:32:11 <Brianetta> autopilot development is as on-topic here as anywhere 14:32:15 *** jimmy [~jimmy@bas5-kitchener06-1096638572.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #openttd 14:33:34 <Forked> oh, BuildOTTD not working too well these days huh 14:33:55 <jimmy> hello there everyone. I have a question... a few of my trains seem to get stuck in their depots and will leave maybe once every 2 - 3 months then repeat. ive tried replacing the depots / trains moving track and it keeps happening. I am sending to trains to very large stations i have setup. Any advice would be much appreciated 14:35:02 <Yexo> jimmy: can you post a screenshot or savegame somewhere? 14:35:03 <peter1138> Signals. 14:35:09 *** Sacro [~ben@adsl-83-100-155-14.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd 14:35:34 <jimmy> i dont have any signals setup... i even put non-stop order in and it doesnt seem to work 14:35:43 <Forked> no signals? 14:35:48 <jimmy> i dont have a screenshot atm... 14:36:00 <jimmy> just one train on a track to a station 14:36:04 <Forked> you should have some signals :) 14:36:13 <Forked> if it's more than one train on the same track 14:36:16 <peter1138> Forked, not if it is only point-to-point. 14:36:23 <jimmy> its one train on one train 14:36:33 <Yexo> jimmy: without a savegame/screenshot we really can't help you 14:37:08 <jimmy> how do i take a screen ? 14:37:11 <Forked> ctrl-s 14:38:07 <Celestar> SmatZ: faster than std::map? 14:38:31 <jimmy> where does it put the screens ? 14:38:39 *** Pikkaa [PikkaBird@58.173.248.50] has quit [] 14:38:45 <Brianetta> What OS are you using? 14:38:55 <jimmy> xp pro 14:39:08 <Brianetta> My Documents\OpenTTD 14:39:10 <Yexo> my documents\openttd\... 14:39:18 <jimmy> k 14:40:08 <SmatZ> Celestar: linear time search, and it has a better chance to use cache better, so it should have better times in those cases 14:40:39 <SmatZ> eg. not jumping around memory as with binary tree 14:40:42 <Celestar> SmatZ: a normal map as a search of log(n) 14:41:09 <Celestar> so it may be helpful for a handful of items 14:41:46 <SmatZ> [16:29:45] <SmatZ> Celestar: replacing std::map, works better for maps with few items 14:43:03 <SmatZ> fetching data from memory takes 100s of ticks 14:43:27 <SmatZ> while accessing them in an array allows better prefetching and using the same cache block 14:43:43 <jimmy> http://www.iphoneontario.ca/Ronnley-Transport-7th-Jun-2035.png ya i know messy hehe 14:43:58 *** tokai [~tokai@p54B80B38.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:44:13 <SmatZ> also it needs more cache - as cache block is 32-64B in size, and one element of map is usually smaller 14:45:17 <SmatZ> jimmy: near flintown, there is a track crossing two tracks 14:45:22 <SmatZ> making the signal block bigger 14:45:55 <jimmy> there www.iphoneontario.ca/Ronnley-Transport-22nd-Jun-2035.png 14:45:57 <planetmaker> jimmy: with the use of signals it would look way better :) - and you'd save zillions 14:46:19 <jimmy> :/ i should look into train tuts i suppose 14:46:45 <SmatZ> jimmy: remove that unneeded track at Flintown 14:46:52 <jimmy> yup removing those crossings fixed things right away 14:46:57 <jimmy> thanks 14:47:05 <SmatZ> np :) 14:47:07 *** tokai [~tokai@p54B83572.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 14:47:07 *** mode/#openttd [+v tokai] by ChanServ 14:48:55 <jimmy> another weird thing ive noticed in this game i am playing their r no forests yet paper mills and wood plants everywhere... is that normal ? 14:49:02 <jimmy> and no oil rigs 14:49:48 <jimmy> sub artic climate thing ? 14:50:11 <yorick> there are no oilrigs in arctic 14:50:19 <planetmaker> forrests are only above(?) snow line. So you might have too many low lands. 14:50:24 <yorick> other things might need some change in snowlines 14:51:03 *** Tim [~Tim@p5B37D568.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 14:56:23 <peter1138> Bikinilines? 14:57:44 *** Dr_Jekyll [Dr_Jekyll@p57B0DC6D.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 14:57:56 *** Jerimiah40 [~jerimiah4@h66-244-213-147.pmcnet.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:59:28 *** Jerimiah40 [~jerimiah4@h66-244-213-147.pmcnet.ca] has joined #openttd 15:02:22 *** |Bastiaan| [~Bastiaan@dsl-087-195-031-183.solcon.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:02:30 <SmatZ> cargodest patch adds ~7% to compilation time and ~5% to binary size 15:05:20 *** fjb_ [~frank@p5485F854.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 15:09:11 <peter1138> That's a bit./ 15:09:18 *** fjb [~frank@p5485DAAB.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:11:00 <SmatZ> a bit more than YAPP :) 15:11:13 <yorick> only the first compile :) 15:11:42 <yorick> the second time you compile, the compile time will be same as always(assuming you didnt make any modifications) 15:11:53 <peter1138> Great logic. 15:12:05 <SmatZ> when you change any headers, tens of files may need to recompile 15:12:36 <SmatZ> or lang file... 15:15:40 <Celestar> oh man 15:15:46 <Celestar> sometimes I love our code 15:15:53 <Celestar> #define assert_compile(expr) extern const int __ct_assert__[1 - 2 * !(expr)] <= Best. Macro. Ever. 15:22:26 *** Dred_furst [~Dred_furs@user-54470bf2.wfd82a.dsl.pol.co.uk] has joined #openttd 15:22:47 * peter1138 ponders allowing GRFs to have more than one error message. 15:23:34 <SpComb> and each error message should get its own popup/alert box 15:23:45 <SpComb> .grfs can have something akin to for loops, can't they? 15:24:36 *** Zahl [~Zahl@e179201193.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #openttd 15:37:48 *** fmauNeko [~fmauNeko@thor.fmauneko.eu] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:42:29 *** thingwath [~thingwath@heimdall.palisada.net] has joined #openttd 15:45:14 *** fjb_ is now known as fjb 15:49:15 <De_Ghosty> yo 15:49:19 <De_Ghosty> i have a problem 15:49:28 <peter1138> SpComb, popup would be annoying :) 15:49:45 <peter1138> Maybe a single popup saying there were GRF errors... 15:51:59 *** Tim [~Tim@p5B37D568.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:55:20 <De_Ghosty> is there a comman to quickly reinstall package? 15:55:56 <blathijs> De_Ghosty: On what OS/distribution? 15:56:08 *** Purno [~Purno@5350931D.cable.casema.nl] has joined #openttd 15:58:41 *** Jerimiah40 [~jerimiah4@h66-244-213-147.pmcnet.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:58:46 *** Jerimiah40 [~jerimiah4@h66-244-213-147.pmcnet.ca] has joined #openttd 15:59:18 <De_Ghosty> debian 16:00:28 <blathijs> De_Ghosty: aptitude reinstall openttd 16:05:31 <De_Ghosty> errr 16:05:36 <De_Ghosty> i wanna reinstall sshd 16:05:37 <De_Ghosty> lol 16:05:58 <peter1138> Why? 16:06:05 *** Sacro [~ben@adsl-83-100-155-14.karoo.KCOM.COM] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:06:09 <De_Ghosty> Starting OpenBSD Secure Shell server: sshdfdopen failed: Invalid argument 16:06:09 <De_Ghosty> Could not load host key: /etc/ssh/ssh_host_rsa_key 16:06:09 <De_Ghosty> fdopen failed: Invalid argument 16:06:09 <De_Ghosty> Could not load host key: /etc/ssh/ssh_host_dsa_key 16:06:09 <De_Ghosty> Disabling protocol version 2. Could not load host key 16:06:11 <De_Ghosty> Missing privilege separation directory: /var/empty 16:06:15 <glx> how did you manage to break it? 16:06:31 <Celestar> wrohg permissions on the host keys?! 16:06:52 <De_Ghosty> o? 16:06:53 <De_Ghosty> relaly? 16:06:55 <Celestar> glx: do you get any warnings in cargodest::src/console_cmd.cpp with mingw? 16:06:57 <Celestar> De_Ghosty: possibly? 16:06:57 <De_Ghosty> how do i fix it? 16:07:01 <De_Ghosty> no idea 16:07:02 <SpComb> peter1138: I advocate the possibility for inifinite popups 16:07:11 <Celestar> De_Ghosty: remove the host key and make new ones 16:07:22 <De_Ghosty> i did 16:07:24 <De_Ghosty> like 10 times 16:07:47 <Celestar> De_Ghosty: and what are the permissions on those keys? 16:08:08 <blathijs> Any chance the box has been compromised? 16:08:32 <De_Ghosty> root 16:08:36 <De_Ghosty> rw r r 16:08:37 <De_Ghosty> no 16:08:40 <De_Ghosty> nothing else is running 16:09:10 <De_Ghosty> ps 16:09:10 <De_Ghosty> PID TTY TIME CMD 16:09:10 <De_Ghosty> 1 ? 00:00:00 init 16:09:10 <De_Ghosty> 10236 ? 00:00:00 syslogd 16:09:10 <De_Ghosty> 11306 ? 00:00:00 mysqld_safe 16:09:11 <De_Ghosty> 11347 ? 00:00:00 logger 16:09:11 <De_Ghosty> 11447 ? 00:00:00 cron 16:09:13 <De_Ghosty> 11461 ? 00:00:00 apache 16:09:13 <De_Ghosty> 11497 ? 00:00:00 miniserv.pl 16:09:15 <De_Ghosty> 14103 ? 00:00:00 miniserv.pl 16:09:15 <De_Ghosty> 14104 ? 00:00:00 sh <defunct> 16:09:17 <De_Ghosty> 14127 ? 00:00:04 server_linux 16:09:17 <De_Ghosty> 5762 ? 00:00:00 miniserv.pl 16:09:19 <De_Ghosty> 5774 ? 00:00:00 su 16:09:19 <De_Ghosty> 5775 ? 00:00:00 ps 16:09:21 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-590fd8c3.pool.einsundeins.de] has joined #openttd 16:09:45 <Celestar> De_Ghosty: and be happy that sshd doesn'T run with those permissions 16:09:51 <Celestar> it's the PRIVATE host key 16:10:09 <De_Ghosty> private? 16:11:01 <Celestar> yes 16:11:01 <blathijs> Hmm, world-readable is not good 16:11:10 <blathijs> though the error message doesn't say anything about that 16:11:12 <Celestar> make NEW host keys with 600 or 640 16:11:24 <Celestar> blathijs: "Missing priviledge separation" ? 16:11:26 <De_Ghosty> how? 16:11:27 <peter1138> Reinstall the OS :) 16:11:54 <blathijs> purging the openssh-server (IIRC) package and reinstalling it should help I think 16:12:19 <blathijs> alternatively, removing the key files and running "dpkg-reconfigure openssh-server" should probably do the trick as well 16:12:25 <Celestar> that too 16:12:30 <Celestar> ssh-keygen ? 16:13:05 <blathijs> Though I'm not sure what the error about /var/empty means, nor all those fdopen errors 16:13:09 <De_Ghosty> sh: line 1: 7332 Segmentation fault stty -a 2>/dev/null 16:13:09 <De_Ghosty> sh: line 1: 7334 Segmentation fault stty -a 2>/dev/null 16:13:09 <De_Ghosty> debconf: unable to initialize frontend: Dialog 16:13:09 <De_Ghosty> debconf: (TERM is not set, so the dialog frontend is not usable.) 16:13:09 <De_Ghosty> debconf: falling back to frontend: Readline 16:13:11 <De_Ghosty> sh: line 1: 7336 Segmentation fault stty -a 2>/dev/null 16:13:11 <De_Ghosty> sh: line 1: 7338 Segmentation fault stty -a 2>/dev/null 16:13:13 <De_Ghosty> debconf: unable to initialize frontend: Readline 16:13:13 <De_Ghosty> debconf: (This frontend requires a controlling tty.) 16:13:15 <De_Ghosty> debconf: falling back to frontend: Teletype 16:13:15 <De_Ghosty> sh: line 1: 7340 Segmentation fault stty -a 2>/dev/null 16:13:17 <De_Ghosty> sh: line 1: 7342 Segmentation fault stty -a 2>/dev/null 16:13:17 <De_Ghosty> fdopen failed: Invalid argument 16:13:19 <De_Ghosty> Could not load host key: /etc/ssh/ssh_host_rsa_key 16:13:19 <De_Ghosty> fdopen failed: Invalid argument 16:13:21 <De_Ghosty> Could not load host key: /etc/ssh/ssh_host_dsa_key 16:13:21 <De_Ghosty> Disabling protocol version 2. Could not load host key 16:13:23 <De_Ghosty> Missing privilege separation directory: /var/empty 16:13:23 <De_Ghosty> invoke-rc.d: initscript ssh, action "restart" failed. 16:13:24 <Celestar> wth? 16:13:36 <De_Ghosty> dpkg-reconfigure openssh-server 16:13:37 <blathijs> De_Ghosty: You should use paste.openttd.org for such long pastes, btw 16:13:52 <Celestar> you have a bigger problem than a b0rked sshd I think 16:14:00 *** lobster_MB [~michielbr@86.89.201.189] has joined #openttd 16:14:03 <blathijs> Any chance that this machine's memory is fubar/ 16:14:09 <blathijs> or other hardware failure? 16:14:18 <De_Ghosty> well 16:14:22 <De_Ghosty> other stuff is working 16:14:27 <blathijs> Or perhaps out-of-diskspace? Shouldn't have this much fallout, but can be pretty nasty sometimes 16:14:32 *** welshdra-gone [~vista@host81-157-252-208.range81-157.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 16:14:36 <De_Ghosty> no have lots of disk left 16:14:41 <SpComb> mmh, stty segfaulting? 16:14:49 <Rubidium> or it's rooted? 16:14:57 <De_Ghosty> http://pastebin.com/d8e06f8d 16:15:02 <De_Ghosty> rooted? 16:15:11 <De_Ghosty> i though if ur rooted it's suppose to be hidden? 16:15:15 <De_Ghosty> not break everything 16:15:16 <De_Ghosty> lol 16:15:39 <Celestar> heheh 16:15:47 * SmatZ roots De_Ghosty 16:15:52 <Celestar> maybe someone failed to root it? 16:16:05 <Rubidium> well, you could've got an unsafe key and some script kiddo rooted you 16:16:19 <hylje> either way the doubt is up 16:16:24 <SpComb> 777 sshd_config? 16:16:34 <SpComb> faaaaailure detected 16:16:51 <SpComb> have you or someone else run a `sudo chmod -R 777 /`? 16:17:12 <SpComb> I've seen a couple servers where someone decided they were too lazy to use sudo, so they did that 16:17:13 <De_Ghosty> should i do that? 16:17:17 <De_Ghosty> no 16:17:18 <Celestar> better not ... 16:17:18 <SpComb> (plus nopasswd sudo, of course 16:17:26 <De_Ghosty> i'm always on rot no need for sudo 16:17:27 <De_Ghosty> :D 16:17:28 <peter1138> SpComb... Jolteon? ;) 16:17:40 <peter1138> Always root :o 16:17:42 <SpComb> no, an internal company server 16:17:51 <De_Ghosty> no this is a private server 16:18:14 <peter1138> Always root is bad. 16:18:19 <De_Ghosty> so i heard 16:18:31 <Celestar> sudo on a box with a single admin O_o 16:18:53 * peter1138 ponders updating his NewGRF sanity checking patch. 16:19:45 <De_Ghosty> ponder how to fix my sshd :d 16:20:23 <De_Ghosty> blah maybe i'll get a fresh slate 16:22:26 *** LilDood [~IceChat7@cpc2-bolt5-0-0-cust370.manc.cable.ntl.com] has joined #openttd 16:25:38 <SpComb> Celestar: sudo on *every* box 16:28:03 <fjb> A friend was always root on his provate Linux box till the day he did a "rm -R *" and realizing too late that it was the wrong directory. He was in "/". 16:28:59 <FauxFaux> sudo on every box indeed, sudo sudo -u lulz -s is far more convenient than su -c 'su lulz' ¬_¬ 16:29:29 <planetmaker> gah. People who work as root deserve a rm -rf / once in a while... 16:30:24 <Brianetta> I work as root on many boxen 16:30:32 <fjb> He never did his daily work as root again. Now root was the account for admin puposes only. 16:30:36 <Brianetta> but I am a network technician 16:30:42 <Brianetta> working as root is a requirement 16:31:12 <Brianetta> The only machine here where I'm not root is the one I have my hands on 16:31:13 <planetmaker> Brianetta: when it's necessary, it's fine. But even then I'd only run those commands as root which require it necessarily. 16:31:13 <fjb> >For admin work it is, but not for the daily text editing etc. 16:31:44 <Brianetta> planetmaker: Believe me, they're necessary. Routing changes, restarts, daemon killing, etc 16:31:47 <FauxFaux> alias su=fakeroot and be happy. :) 16:31:52 <planetmaker> Brianetta: sure :) 16:32:11 <Brianetta> This box here, though (pat-pat) is logged in as a regular user. 16:32:11 <peter1138> Hmm, it compiled... 16:32:48 <Celestar> SpComb: I don't use it 16:33:10 <peter1138> Does CopyGRFConfigList() actually need to copy errors? 16:33:43 <fjb> I prefer to have a dedicated root shell fpr admin work over prefixing every command with sudo. Sudo is like the Vista security boxes after a while, just annoying and no additional security because you don't think about which commands need that prefix, you just type it. 16:36:06 <Ammler> I use su mostly 16:38:26 <fjb> Yes, su, ssh doesn't accept root login. 16:38:35 <glx> Celestar: no warnings with mingw 16:38:59 <Celestar> glx: interesting 16:39:04 <fjb> And only users of group "wheel" are allowed to become root. 16:39:08 <glx> gcc 3.4.5 16:39:17 <SpComb> Brianetta: but you usually don't need to run e.g. ls or less as root 16:40:07 <Celestar> fjb: sounds like fBSD to me (= 16:40:47 *** [com]buster [~Combuster@82-171-220-59.ip.telfort.nl] has joined #openttd 16:40:57 <Brianetta> SpComb: No; just things like rm 16:41:02 <Brianetta> What's the additional risk? 16:41:59 <fjb> Yes, BSD. BSD, like most other kinds of UNIX don't allow everybody to become root. That is a special "feature" of the GNU people. (Free access to everything by everyone. No specal class of users who are allowed to have more rights.) 16:42:01 <Brianetta> http://xkcd.com/149/ 16:42:04 *** Volley [~worf@84-119-53-183.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:42:18 <Celestar> fjb: well you can configure it easily 16:42:28 <Brianetta> fjb: Debian derived Linux distributions don't allow anybody to become root. 16:42:45 <Brianetta> well, by anybody, I mean just anybody 16:42:53 <Brianetta> not that they allow nobody 16:43:01 <fjb> Ah, then they adapted the more secure behavior of the usual UNIX. 16:43:22 <Brianetta> They did. They always did. 16:43:31 <Celestar> it's just not configged by default 16:43:33 <Brianetta> Linux is a kernel; not all distributions are alike 16:44:00 <Brianetta> Redhat/Fedora/Suse are all less secure in this respect 16:44:22 <Celestar> They all come with SELinux 16:44:25 <Celestar> and apparmor 16:44:30 <Celestar> you just need to configure it :P 16:44:33 <Brianetta> SElinux is just a kernel too 16:44:34 <fjb> Not the kernel is the problem here, GNU su is. Hurd would have the same security risk because that is the GNU phylosophy. 16:45:06 <Brianetta> GNU su requires root's password. Ubuntu, by default, comes with the root account disabled (password hash is a *) 16:45:24 *** michi_cc [5c14167e6e@dude.icosahedron.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:45:28 <fjb> SELinux is a totally different beast. You need a lot of knowledge to handle it. 16:45:35 <Celestar> yeah 16:45:43 <De_Ghosty> i demand fix my ssh 16:45:48 <Brianetta> SElinux is great if you know your system 16:45:49 <Celestar> but with a PROPER root password, things are less insecure 16:46:03 *** michi_cc [93c035f824@dude.icosahedron.de] has joined #openttd 16:46:03 *** mode/#openttd [+v michi_cc] by ChanServ 16:46:06 <fjb> Brianetta: sudo sh ... 16:46:18 <Prof_Frink> fjb: sudo -i 16:46:20 <Brianetta> fjb: sudo -s 16:46:46 <Brianetta> my /etc/sudoers file allows *me* to do anything I like, but not everybody 16:47:04 <fjb> There is always a way to get a full root shell if you are allowed to do something as root. 16:47:05 <Brianetta> There are a couple of commands my autopilot account can do; sh isn't one of them. 16:47:11 *** Marine [~chatzilla@92.16.241.57] has joined #openttd 16:47:24 <Celestar> being able to execute root commands without specifying a password is not prudent imho 16:47:39 <Marine> hey guys, i have a question. When my train goes to the next station, i want it to fill up and then continue when the station is empty, but it will sit there, i presume, until its full 16:47:47 <Marine> how can i get it to move on when nothing is left? 16:47:47 <Brianetta> fjb: No, there is not. login runs as root in BSD, from the shell. Go, try and exploit that. 16:48:11 <Prof_Frink> fjb: I dunno, allowing anyone to run /bin/true as root is probably fairly safe 16:48:25 <fjb> And that is all some kind of hacking around the security risk in GNU su to not obey a special wheel group like traditional UNIX does. 16:49:06 <De_Ghosty> Marine jsut use go to station 16:49:16 <De_Ghosty> don't use wait for full load 16:49:19 <Marine> yeah but it seems like its sitting there when there is nothing in the station 16:49:24 <Marine> and no i havent got fiull load set 16:49:37 *** welshdra-gone is now known as welshdragon 16:49:41 <De_Ghosty> what did u set? 16:49:55 *** Volley [~worf@84-119-53-183.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #openttd 16:50:08 <fjb> Prof_Frink: Do you cofigure evey possible command that could be allowed as root in sudo? Don't forget one you will need and don't have one too much there. 16:50:10 <Marine> Goto 16:50:28 <Marine> maybe it is filling up but before it finishes more comes in 16:50:52 <Brianetta> My sudo setup is like that, for all accounts but my own, on my server 16:51:01 <Brianetta> That is, my server's as secure as my account 16:51:02 <De_Ghosty> yea that can happen if it's a really busy station 16:52:04 <Brianetta> One of the accounts can run chown :www-data 16:52:12 <Brianetta> but that's made secure by trust 16:52:32 <fjb> But it is way more complex than a simple wheel group. And more complex things are prone to error. 16:52:50 <Brianetta> I wouldn't say "way more" 16:53:01 <Prof_Frink> fjb: My system has one user. 16:53:09 <Brianetta> in tital, about five commands are allowed. All but one are scripts that I wrote. 16:53:44 <fjb> Oh, sripts are fun. :-) 16:54:11 <Brianetta> They're Tcl scripts (: 16:54:46 <fjb> That doesn't matter that much. Still fun, just other fun as sh scripts. 16:55:01 <Brianetta> Doesn't matter? Tcl rocks 16:55:14 <Brianetta> Tcl vs Perl was a Holy War back in the 80s 16:55:30 <Brianetta> Doesn't matter indeed. I bet you're an Emacs user. 16:56:04 <fjb> Why do you bet that? 16:56:26 <fjb> Tcl just is not more secure as sh or perl. 16:56:33 *** LilDood [~IceChat7@cpc2-bolt5-0-0-cust370.manc.cable.ntl.com] has quit [Quit: When the chips are down, well, the buffalo is empty] 16:57:10 *** Bjarni [~Bjarni@0x50a46ad5.virnxx14.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #openttd 16:57:12 *** mode/#openttd [+o Bjarni] by ChanServ 16:58:13 <Prof_Frink> Bjarni! 16:59:49 <Bjarni> that's my name 17:01:14 *** Yeggs-work is now known as Yeggstry 17:02:35 <Brianetta> I never said it was more secure. Just that the fact I'm using Tcl says which side of a very old Holy War I'm on. 17:02:46 <Brianetta> [17:54] <Brianetta> They're Tcl scripts (: 17:02:46 <Brianetta> [17:54] <fjb> That doesn't matter that much 17:02:51 <Brianetta> That's all I disagreed with 17:03:34 <Brianetta> If I were an Emacs user I'd have bet you were a vi user. 17:03:44 <yorick> python is still betterer :) 17:03:57 <fjb> And I say that every script can be compromised. 17:04:01 <Brianetta> Python is a young whipper-snapper newfangled newbie of a language. 17:04:30 <fjb> And I still don't get your jump to Emacs. 17:04:38 <Brianetta> fjb: Every script? Even a one-liner?: puts {Hello, World!} 17:04:57 <Brianetta> fjb: The jump to emacs was basically a call for a fight (: 17:05:44 <fjb> Every script, because you can get access to the interpreter. And I bet your 5 admin sripts are no oneliners. 17:05:55 <fjb> And I don't see any reason for a fight. 17:06:08 <Brianetta> You said it didn't matter that I used Tcl (a sensitive area, that) and so I accused you of being an Emacs user, and therefore the enemy. 17:06:21 <Brianetta> since i'm on the vi side of that one. 17:06:39 <Brianetta> I just assumed you were aware of some Unix culture, sorry. 17:06:49 *** Farden [~jk3farden@ram94-7-82-232-189-236.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #openttd 17:07:19 *** rortom [~rortom@p57B7C263.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 17:07:33 <fjb> Being aware of culture doesn't mean to take any fight, especially not if we are talking about system security. 17:07:33 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@host245-236-dynamic.9-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #openttd 17:07:47 <Wolf01> hello 17:07:54 <fjb> Hello Wolf01 17:09:06 <Brianetta> fjb: The fight is part of the culture, and it's all in jest. 17:10:09 *** Brainstorm [~Brainstor@82-171-5-111.ip.telfort.nl] has joined #openttd 17:10:28 <fjb> I don't take senseless fights, even if I know that other people do. Believing that one scripting language is unvulnarable is even foolish. 17:11:00 <Brianetta> "Believing that one scripting language is unvulnarable is even foolish." 17:11:08 <Brianetta> and THAT was you, jumping to a conclusion. 17:11:11 <Brianetta> I never made that claim. 17:11:51 *** |Jeroen| [~jeroen@78-21-228-27.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd 17:13:20 *** nekx [~asd@0x3e42e6e6.adsl.cybercity.dk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:13:21 *** Jezral [~projectjj@users113.kollegienet.dk] has joined #openttd 17:14:05 <fjb> I said tcl is not better than sh, it only is different. 17:15:15 <Brianetta> I never claimed otherwise 17:15:23 <Brianetta> I just said my scripts were Tcl 17:15:29 <Marine> nah, its still doing it. My station says Waiting: Nothing but the train doesn't move on 17:15:42 <Marine> i have to manually skip that station 17:15:51 <Brianetta> I also said that Tcl rocks, because it does 17:16:14 <Brianetta> but all Polish Notation languages are things of beauty 17:16:38 <peter1138> Hmm, that didn't work so well. 17:16:48 <Brianetta> but anyway, I have a train to catch. 17:16:58 <Brianetta> later peeps (: 17:17:01 *** Brianetta [~brian@client-86-27-115-128.bmly.adsl.virgin.net] has quit [Quit: TschÃŒÃ] 17:18:08 *** Volley [~worf@84-119-53-183.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:18:50 <peter1138> I now need to check if an error has already been added :o 17:19:00 <Celestar> I gotta go 17:19:07 <peter1138> (Non-fatal errors are done multiple times) 17:19:44 *** TinoDidriksen [~projectjj@users113.kollegienet.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:21:15 *** Celestar [~Jadzia_Da@129.187.69.65] has quit [Quit: leaving] 17:22:59 *** Volley [~worf@84-119-53-183.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #openttd 17:23:50 <peter1138> Heh, tons of warnings from this OTTDC game. 17:23:57 <peter1138> Somebody hasn't read any readmes... 17:24:30 <Wolf01> smell of roasted chicken... no, it's not the computer... I hope it's not the dinner too 17:29:08 *** Zahl_ [~Zahl@e179182077.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #openttd 17:29:08 *** Zahl [~Zahl@e179201193.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:29:08 *** Zahl_ is now known as Zahl 17:29:13 *** Brainstorm [~Brainstor@82-171-5-111.ip.telfort.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:29:26 *** lobstar is now known as lobster 17:29:35 <Kloopy> Oh man, latest nightlies crash on run. (Win32) 17:29:59 <peter1138> Hmm, that brick's a bit tough. 17:31:24 <Marine> what the hell in one of my stations it had 80000 litres of oil waiting, and then with no train there it just shot down to Nothing waiting? 17:31:34 <FauxFaux> It does indeed, Kloopy. 17:31:47 <FauxFaux> It probably rotted, Marine. 17:31:53 <Marine> it rots? 17:31:55 <Marine> :S 17:33:24 <glx> Kloopy: wait for 30 minutes 17:33:55 *** Alberth [~hat@a82-95-164-127.adsl.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 17:35:19 <Kloopy> Is that when the farm recompiles? 17:35:22 *** Sacro [~Ben@adsl-83-100-155-14.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd 17:36:30 <FauxFaux> Is there any particular reason why the repo has no bugtraq properties on it? 17:37:52 *** rortom [~rortom@p57B7C263.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:40:02 <Marine> http://wiki.openttd.org/wiki/index.php/Image:2_track_-_4_track.png HOLY FUCK 17:40:25 <FauxFaux> Sharp corners. :( Agh! 90deg corners. 17:41:44 <peter1138> Nasty! 17:42:30 <Rubidium> FauxFaux: what's bugtraq anyway? 17:42:54 * peter1138 notes that the old trac used to link to flyspray. 17:43:19 <FauxFaux> Rubidium: It's info for prettier clients (ie. tortoise) to make commit-messages have urls in, and provide UI support, etc. 17:43:28 <peter1138> Hmm, I need to make the bottom bit of the NewGRF window scrollable too :o 17:44:51 <peter1138> http://svn.bucks.net/~petern/erroroverload.png 17:46:25 <Kloopy> You have a very small monitor, peter1138. 17:46:27 <Kloopy> :) 17:46:43 <FauxFaux> http://rafb.net/p/6lQU1h78.html is potentially a diff (on trunk/) if you want to try it, Rubidium. 17:46:48 <glx> Kloopy: the problem is not really a compilation thing, but some required files are not in the zip and that will be fix when the compile farm will pack the new nightly 17:47:01 <peter1138> I resized the window to get a smaller screenshot. The NewGRF window is at its default size. 17:47:02 <Kloopy> Ah, ok then. Which is in 15 mins or so? 17:49:23 *** Marine [~chatzilla@92.16.241.57] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:49:49 *** Marine [~chatzilla@92.16.241.57] has joined #openttd 18:01:07 *** stillunknown [~stillunkn@82-136-225-75.ip.telfort.nl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:01:14 <peter1138> Hmm. Duplicates now handled. 18:01:37 *** lobster_MB [~michielbr@86.89.201.189] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 18:04:27 *** stillunknown [~stillunkn@82-136-225-75.ip.telfort.nl] has joined #openttd 18:05:07 <Kloopy> glx: Thank you, the new nightly does indeed run :D 18:07:34 <peter1138> Nice lot of errors :D 18:13:17 <Rubidium> FauxFaux: I dislike that feature as it means adding the same information to many many places in the repository 18:14:13 <FauxFaux> Rubidium: Mm, does adding it to the root not work? You most certainly don't need to add it to every folder. 18:14:19 <Rubidium> many many meaning 50+ places 18:14:49 <Rubidium> FauxFaux: not quite as nobody should do a full svn checkout (people doing that are *CRAZY* ) 18:15:00 <FauxFaux> Mmm, true. 18:15:32 <Rubidium> so, nice idea, unuseable/unmanageable implementation 18:15:33 <peter1138> Oh, the errors are last nights, heh... 18:15:37 * FauxFaux does it locally, job down. :) 18:15:42 <FauxFaux> Done. 18:20:12 <peter1138> Gah, no milk :( 18:21:41 *** pavel1269 [~pavel.g@48.140.broadband2.iol.cz] has joined #openttd 18:23:36 <Bjarni> peter1138: go get your spouse and the problem is solved 18:24:07 <peter1138> ... 18:24:12 *** Volley [~worf@84-119-53-183.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:24:17 *** Tim [~Tim@p5B37D455.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 18:30:10 *** pavel1269 [~pavel.g@48.140.broadband2.iol.cz] has quit [] 18:36:18 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1E413.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:38:36 *** svippy [~svip@0x50a5b150.boanxx18.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #openttd 18:38:36 *** svippery [~svip@0x50a5b150.boanxx18.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:42:01 *** Jerimiah40 [~jerimiah4@h66-244-213-147.pmcnet.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:42:36 *** Jerimiah40 [~jerimiah4@h66-244-213-147.pmcnet.ca] has joined #openttd 18:46:23 *** Swallow [~chatzilla@5355F5FD.cable.casema.nl] has joined #openttd 18:46:32 *** [com]buster [~Combuster@82-171-220-59.ip.telfort.nl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:46:54 *** [com]buster [~Combuster@82-171-220-59.ip.telfort.nl] has joined #openttd 18:47:10 *** Purno [~Purno@5350931D.cable.casema.nl] has quit [Quit: Always remember you're unique, just like everyone else.] 18:53:29 *** AndiK [~Haahaa@dslb-088-064-223-132.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd 18:53:46 <AndiK> Servus beinand 18:55:51 <fjb> Moin AndiK 19:00:05 *** fonso [~fonso@brln-d9bac5f3.pool.mediaWays.net] has left #openttd [Kopete 0.12.7 : http://kopete.kde.org] 19:05:23 *** helb [~helb@84.244.90.203] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:11:52 *** Jerimiah40 [~jerimiah4@h66-244-213-147.pmcnet.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:15:31 *** Jerimiah40 [~jerimiah4@h66-244-213-147.pmcnet.ca] has joined #openttd 19:21:17 *** Gekz [~brendan@123-243-206-102.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:25:19 *** Gekz [~brendan@123-243-206-102.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #openttd 19:27:40 *** Brianetta [~brian@client-86-27-115-128.bmly.adsl.virgin.net] has joined #openttd 19:33:01 *** Mortal [~mortal@0x573a3da2.odnqu1.static.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [Quit: :brb restarting xchat] 19:33:21 *** Mortal [~mortal@0x573a3da2.odnqu1.static.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #openttd 19:36:45 *** helb [~helb@84.244.90.203] has joined #openttd 19:37:31 *** Zahl [~Zahl@e179182077.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Quit: (~_~]"] 19:39:53 *** Jerimiah40 [~jerimiah4@h66-244-213-147.pmcnet.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:42:18 *** Jerimiah40 [~jerimiah4@h66-244-213-147.pmcnet.ca] has joined #openttd 19:49:55 *** Noob [~gdima07@cpe-72-185-225-167.tampabay.res.rr.com] has joined #openttd 19:50:11 <Noob> Whoa! 19:50:37 <Noob> So much people. 19:51:38 * fjb hides. 19:51:38 *** Sacro [~Ben@adsl-83-100-155-14.karoo.KCOM.COM] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:51:45 <Noob> How do I get the original files inorder to run OpenTTD? 19:52:08 <Jezral> BitTorrent 19:52:12 *** Jezral is now known as TinoDidriksen 19:52:16 <yorick> Noob: google 19:52:36 <FauxFaux> Are there really not enough graphics to ship at least some shitty free ones yet? :( 19:52:53 <yorick> almost 19:53:06 <FauxFaux> Why not just drop the non-existent ones? 19:53:17 <FauxFaux> The installer on most oses already tries to force you to copy it. 19:53:45 <yorick> http://www.google.com/search?q=ttd+original+data+files 19:54:01 <fjb> You could simply buy the original game. 19:54:03 <yorick> not allowed to give direct links here 19:54:07 <yorick> yes, that too 19:54:18 <yorick> but only if you're really really desperate 19:54:19 *** Sacro [~Ben@83.100.229.228] has joined #openttd 19:56:35 <peter1138> s/desperate/sensible/ 19:57:14 <yorick> that's quite the same if he would be any similar to me 19:59:28 *** lobster_MB [~michielbr@5350C1D1.cable.casema.nl] has joined #openttd 19:59:39 <dih> Brianetta, did you have a look at the interp thing i had pasted? 19:59:55 <Brianetta> no 20:00:09 * peter1138 attempts to decipher bjarni-code. 20:00:10 <dih> did you think any further about autopilot stuff? 20:00:17 <dih> peter1138, good luck 20:00:17 <Brianetta> not recently 20:00:23 <peter1138> boxes_in_each_row ... generally knowns as 'columns' 20:00:29 <peter1138> -s 20:00:41 <yorick> or cells 20:01:39 <peter1138> That is not specific enough, and would result in cells_in_each_row :p 20:01:55 <yorick> ooh, depot window drawing code with boxes_in_each_row 20:02:06 <dih> Brianetta, i'll post it again for you 20:02:22 <yorick> 00314 uint16 boxes_in_each_row = this->widget[DEPOT_WIDGET_MATRIX].data & 0xFF; 20:02:34 * yorick is curious where d*h is talking about 20:03:26 <dih> http://paste.openttd.org/72839 20:03:49 <dih> Brianetta, ^ 20:06:26 *** Noob [~gdima07@cpe-72-185-225-167.tampabay.res.rr.com] has left #openttd [] 20:06:28 <Forked> meep meep 20:06:40 <Bjarni> * peter1138 attempts to decipher bjarni-code. <--- you can crack encryption algorithms? 20:07:09 *** lobster_MB [~michielbr@5350C1D1.cable.casema.nl] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 20:07:29 <Bjarni> also it looks like you are looking at depot GUI code 20:08:51 <Forked> just to be sure before I try to get this to work .. it is possible to compile win32 binary in linux 20:09:28 <Bjarni> yes 20:09:39 <Bjarni> if you have the right software and know how to use it 20:09:46 <Forked> and how big of a pita is it to get working? :) 20:09:51 <Bjarni> err 20:09:54 <Bjarni> beats me 20:09:59 <Bjarni> I never actually tried it 20:10:53 <dih> Brianetta, what do you think? 20:11:17 *** Jerimiah40 [~jerimiah4@h66-244-213-147.pmcnet.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:12:26 *** Swallow [~chatzilla@5355F5FD.cable.casema.nl] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.83 [Firefox 3.0.1/2008070208]] 20:12:46 *** Jerimiah40 [~jerimiah4@h66-244-213-147.pmcnet.ca] has joined #openttd 20:12:54 *** yorick [~Yorick@s55924da0.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has quit [Quit: So] 20:13:52 *** yorick [~Yorick@s55924da0.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has joined #openttd 20:13:59 *** yorick [~Yorick@s55924da0.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has quit [] 20:14:11 <dih> yorick you are getting annoying with your quit's :-P 20:15:27 <Ammler> the about window is freaking fast here 20:15:53 *** yorick [~Yorick@s55924da0.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has joined #openttd 20:16:00 *** lobster_MB [~michielbr@5350C1D1.cable.casema.nl] has joined #openttd 20:16:02 <yorick> dih: I'm sorry about that, the irc client tried to rejoin 20:16:17 <dih> cute 20:16:18 *** yorick [~Yorick@s55924da0.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has quit [] 20:16:40 *** Alberth [~hat@a82-95-164-127.adsl.xs4all.nl] has left #openttd [] 20:18:51 *** fmauNeko [~fmauNeko@thor.fmauneko.eu] has joined #openttd 20:22:23 *** nappe1afk is now known as nappe1 20:22:32 <nappe1> sniff... 20:22:50 <nappe1> Infra Sharing latest patch does not work... 20:23:04 <nappe1> posted the report to thread moment ago. 20:23:16 <nappe1> http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=37455&p=724385#p724385 20:23:28 <Forked> and it's not fixed already? 20:23:29 <Forked> ¯\(º_o)/¯ 20:24:07 <SmatZ> r14152 works, but r14180 doesn't? 20:24:33 *** lobster_MB [~michielbr@5350C1D1.cable.casema.nl] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 20:25:10 <nappe1> SmatZ: have you tried 14152? if not, I need to test that... I just hunted down which patch causing that rather odd crash so I didn't have time to check it yet... 20:25:47 <SmatZ> nappe1: no... 20:26:12 <SmatZ> nappe1: does it crash when you start a new game? 20:26:38 <Ammler> the 2 "core" devs of that patch left it alone long time ago 20:26:39 <nappe1> SmatZ: It crashes when the first production newspaper comes visible. 20:28:00 <nappe1> Ammler: wheeh... how the time flies... I thought this new one not being even that old. :D I do remember that one which was not going to make to trunk in 2005 already, but this is new one. :) 20:28:39 <Ammler> nappe1: you might speak about subsididy or how that is called 20:29:02 <Ammler> that one is much better :-) 20:29:42 <Ammler> planetmaker: just keeps it up2date, he might be able to fix it, but don't expect too much 20:30:09 <Rubidium> Forked: it's easier harder to set up that mingw, but way way easier than compiling OSX on Linux 20:30:57 <nappe1> Ammler: yeah, that's the old one... But you already guessed... I am quite casual OpenTTD player. :D 20:31:16 <nappe1> I don't play nor update game that often. :) 20:31:31 <Ammler> oh, I meant with "that one" the current one :-) 20:31:48 <nappe1> Ammler: :D 20:32:09 <Ammler> the subsidy patch wasn't that network stable 20:32:26 <nappe1> Ammler: Infrastructure Sharing Patch is about 2 years younger than Subsidies, which was also great. 20:32:55 <peter1138> Subsidiaries. 20:32:58 <Forked> Rubidium: I'd prefer it on the linuxserver rather than on the windows workstation :) but not sure I should continue on it now, work tomorrow and it's already half past ten 20:33:34 <nappe1> peter1138: exactly. pardon my mistakes on language that (should be) my 3rd. 20:34:04 <nappe1> (but to be honest, I don't like swedish, so english is second language.) 20:34:04 <peter1138> Well... just that subsidies were a part of TTD ;) 20:34:25 <Rubidium> peter1138: but there's a subsidy patch too 20:34:29 * nappe1 is getting confused. 20:34:45 * nappe1 needs a beer. It always fixes these situations... 20:34:53 <Ammler> :-) 20:34:57 * nappe1 makes a note: No Beer. 20:35:02 <Ammler> then I would be drunken all the time :P 20:35:10 * nappe1 makes another note: "remember buy some tomorrow." 20:35:44 <SmatZ> nappe1: http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=37455&p=724392#p724392 20:36:12 <nappe1> SmatZ: excelent. very big thanks. :) 20:36:29 <SmatZ> you are welcome :) 20:36:35 <Ammler> sometimes, you are... 20:36:36 <SmatZ> helped planetmaker a bit ;) 20:37:01 <nappe1> SmatZ: Dare I ask, what was the problem or did the older revision work with just update to trunk revision? :) 20:37:21 <planetmaker> he. Thx SmatZ :) 20:37:29 * Rubidium guesses string vs stringid 20:37:49 <SmatZ> nappe1: too many enum values 20:37:49 <Marine> where do the saves go to? 20:37:58 <SmatZ> + NS_OPENCLOSE, ///< NT_OPENCLOSE 20:38:07 <SmatZ> it was removed time ago and it caused crash 20:38:17 <Rubidium> Marine: to the place as described in (do not) readme.txt 20:38:56 <dih> night 20:39:08 <planetmaker> oh... 20:39:13 <planetmaker> night dih 20:39:13 <Ammler> gute nacht dih 20:41:20 <nappe1> SmatZ: ok. you probably found it about 1000 times faster what that would have took from me. :) 20:41:34 <SmatZ> :) 20:42:28 <planetmaker> mental note to self: proper testing always pais off :P 20:42:46 <nappe1> (besides, I used 5 hours of my today's work as writing SanityChecks for certain excel report generator, due I didn't expect admin of that tool being that stupid, so debuging was not the first on my list to do at home. :D 20:42:56 <planetmaker> but then: patches are like bananas. They ripe at the customer's place ;) 20:43:22 *** Marine_ [~chatzilla@92.16.241.57] has joined #openttd 20:43:30 <SmatZ> :-) 20:43:43 <Mortal> if I start a save with autorenewal disabled, save and abandon, enable autorenew in patches, load old save game, will autorenewing be enabled? 20:43:43 <Marine_> Ok then guys :) i have a save, but its from me being on a server. I want to start that save so how would i do that and still be myself? 20:44:18 <Ammler> Mortal: no, those settings belong to the save 20:44:45 <Mortal> oh shi 20:44:47 <Mortal> ah well 20:44:47 <Ammler> settings, which aren't disabled in MP... 20:44:53 <Marine_> how about my q? :P 20:44:59 <Ammler> which are... :-) 20:45:27 <Marine_> i have a save, but its from me being on a server. I want to start that save so how would i do that and still be myself? 20:45:48 <Ammler> Marine you need to "cheat" to your company 20:45:51 <Marine_> how? 20:45:55 <Mortal> ctrl+alt+c 20:46:02 <Marine_> aah damn 20:46:25 <Marine_> multiplayer 20:46:27 <Marine_> :( 20:47:32 <Ammler> MP is the only reason I play OTTD :-) 20:47:45 <SpComb> MP-co-op 20:47:50 <SpComb> competitive is silly 20:48:02 * SpComb has never understood the point or value of competition in TTD 20:48:07 <Ammler> competitive on SP yes 20:48:17 <Ammler> but against humen, it could be nice, too. 20:48:23 *** Marine [~chatzilla@92.16.241.57] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:48:29 <SpComb> no, it just ends up messy 20:48:34 *** Marine_ is now known as Marine 20:48:47 <SpComb> co-op with shared infrastructure or walking passengers would be interesting 20:49:01 <Ammler> SpComb: indeed. 20:49:04 <AndiK> co-op with shared infrastructure is interesting 20:49:12 <AndiK> I've played that once or twice 20:49:21 <peter1138> Competition is fine, except there's always some muppet complaining that you're stealing *their* goods... 20:49:42 <AndiK> It's only that you should agree on which parts of the network are for freight and which for passengers. ^^ 20:49:48 <Ammler> that is what I am doing mostly on such a server :-) 20:49:51 <Wolf01> 'night 20:49:59 <Ammler> looking for a good factory already producing goods. 20:50:00 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@host245-236-dynamic.9-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.] 20:50:27 <Marine> SpComb: i'd love coop in MP 20:50:35 <Marine> but the others who play with me just want to rob my oil 20:50:49 <Prof_Frink> SpComb: i'd love coop round chickens 20:50:51 <AndiK> One should be able to hire armies of mercenaries 20:50:54 <Brianetta> http://ppcis.org/standard/rules.cgi 20:50:59 <AndiK> And then send them on the armies of other players 20:51:01 <Brianetta> That's my server's rules 20:51:09 <Brianetta> Competitive behaviour's allowed 20:51:14 <AndiK> We should call the patch "Transport & Conquer Deluxe" 20:51:15 <Brianetta> Anti-social behaviour isn't 20:51:15 <AndiK> Or something 20:51:36 <AndiK> With cyborgs! 20:51:37 <AndiK> And Tanja 20:51:51 <Brianetta> As long as Joe Kucan plays Kane 20:52:02 * Prof_Frink builds an airport 20:52:09 <AndiK> No, wait... The cyborgs are for us Krauts only. We can't see blood, you know? 20:52:11 * Prof_Frink clicks on the hangar 20:52:20 <Prof_Frink> KIROV REPORTING 20:52:22 <AndiK> At least that's what the government thinks ^^ 20:52:43 <Marine> is there a way to send money to toher poeple 20:52:50 <Prof_Frink> Marine: Yes. 20:52:54 <AndiK> Yep. Via the client list 20:52:56 <Marine> k 20:53:47 <Forked> OpenCiv2 .. now wouldn't that be something :p 20:54:32 <planetmaker> Well. it's around, isn't it. Just called FreeCiv. 20:54:37 <AndiK> That would only be something if there's Tanya in it. 20:54:39 <AndiK> And/or trains. 20:54:41 <AndiK> With signals 20:54:43 <AndiK> ! 20:55:11 *** |Jeroen| [~jeroen@78-21-228-27.access.telenet.be] has quit [Quit: oO] 20:55:50 <peter1138> Ammler, I get a load of GRF errors from one of the coop games ;) 20:56:25 *** Mortal [~mortal@0x573a3da2.odnqu1.static.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [Quit: [FATAL] Client error: Memory leak - More RAM needed. More! More! More!] 20:57:17 <Ammler> peter1138: which one? 20:57:38 <peter1138> Don't know, it wasn't a save, it was one I had joined. 20:58:10 <peter1138> Has a load of bridge GRFs together :o 20:58:13 <Ammler> hmm, one of the first games with YAPP 20:58:19 <SpComb> yeah, MP co-op is difficult 20:58:34 <peter1138> Total Bridge Renewal Set Version 1.12 complains about all the other bridge sets loaded :p 20:58:55 <peter1138> So many complaints I need to add a scrollbar... 20:58:58 <SpComb> you tend to step on each others' toes, or one person is a bit shy and doesn't end up doing very much, or conflicts of style 20:59:04 <Ammler> yeah, thgergo did a "good" job setup those errors :-) 20:59:06 <SpComb> (other player builds "ugly" networks) 20:59:14 <SpComb> using the "wrong" locomotives :( 20:59:26 <peter1138> SpComb, other people putting down signals every other tile irritates me... 20:59:32 <peter1138> (So ottdcoop is out) 20:59:34 <SpComb> yeah 20:59:40 <Ammler> like keep slots free or memory. 20:59:55 <SpComb> that, and building a double-track railway with signals every four tiles across half the map to service one forest also annoys me 21:00:03 <SpComb> i.e. one train running on it 21:00:25 <AndiK> :D 21:00:57 * AndiK loves to build realistic networks. Start out in 1920 with just a more or less short one track line. 21:01:09 <Ammler> peter1138: we play another type with cargo dest test 21:01:17 <Ammler> only ever 10. tile 21:01:21 <SpComb> yeah, I only reluctantly expand to double-track, and electrified 21:01:39 <AndiK> Over time I'd add stuff here and there and expand in all directions 21:01:46 <Prof_Frink> Whereas I just go for world domination. 21:01:50 <SpComb> and a "very hilly" terrain (or whatever the second-last option is) 21:01:57 <SpComb> with enough lakes/seas to get in the way 21:02:20 <AndiK> After a few decades I have to stop traffic in some corners to do a complete (unique) redesign of a station or joint 21:02:23 <Ammler> well, signals every other tile is plain experience and not beatable for efficency 21:02:38 <AndiK> It looks crappy. :-P 21:03:04 <Ammler> one tile is about 1km, so I think every 2. kilometer a signal isn't that crap. 21:03:13 <draconnier> i do them every 2 tiles 21:03:17 <Prof_Frink> When every coal mine is feeding one power station, it's necessary. 21:03:40 <Prof_Frink> (Around the power station, 4-5 tiles elsewhere) 21:03:44 <AndiK> If one tile is 1 km, then trains are really really fast... 21:04:19 <Ammler> the dimensions vary from thing to thing :-) 21:04:30 <frosch123> no, they are actually quite slow, but very long 21:04:47 <eekee> I typically allow a train length between signals. half a length where efficiency is needed 21:05:13 <AndiK> This discussion is nonsense.. ^_^ 21:05:21 <eekee> ^_^ 21:05:25 <Prof_Frink> This nonsense is a carrot. 21:05:26 <Ammler> noo :P 21:05:37 <AndiK> Mmmm, carrots. 21:05:52 * eekee noms on a carrot :E 21:05:53 <frosch123> we have to enjoy the R word as long as B is not here :) 21:06:31 <fjb> :-) 21:06:32 * AndiK is now going to sleep. 21:06:42 <AndiK> Gotta get up early tomorrow 21:06:44 <SmatZ> :-) 21:07:09 <SpComb> I always have five tiles between signals, 2-3 tiles at stations/junctions 21:07:35 <AndiK> Good night! 21:07:47 <SpComb> indeed 21:07:47 <Ammler> I use about 10 on non coop games 21:07:56 <eekee> I have had trouble from too many signals, particularly where they're too close after an exit signal 21:08:43 <fjb> The sprites are too small to paint round things: http://www.imgwelt.de/uploads/0671D39579J.png :-( 21:08:57 <fjb> eekee: Plant fewer signals. 21:08:59 *** AndiK [~Haahaa@dslb-088-064-223-132.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: Pragmatisch, praktisch, gut] 21:09:27 <eekee> fjb: care to read up? 21:09:33 <frosch123> fjb: go 32 bit and use antialiasing 21:11:13 <fjb> frosch123: That is 32bpp, bot no alpha chanel used yet. I guess Ihave to try that. 21:12:08 <fjb> The new locomotives are not that easy to paint as I had hoped. That should be a BR 146. 21:13:34 <fjb> No wonder MB has only two of the modern engines in his 8bpp set. 21:15:09 <fjb> Are the full 8 bit of the alpha channel used for transparency? 21:15:32 <frosch123> sure 21:16:23 <frosch123> though due to optimizing either 1/256 or 255/256 opacity is not possible 21:16:54 <fjb> That should be no problem here. 21:18:08 <fjb> The round edges against the background are the difficult part. 21:21:58 *** welterde [welterde@gandalf.srv.welterde.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:22:03 <peter1138> Generally 4 levels of transparency are enough/ 21:23:10 *** welterde [welterde@gandalf.srv.welterde.de] has joined #openttd 21:24:57 *** Volley [~worf@84-119-53-183.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #openttd 21:25:05 *** Tim [~Tim@p5B37D455.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Trillian (http://www.ceruleanstudios.com] 21:27:08 <fjb> Now I only have to find out how to paint in the alphy channel so that it has the desired effect. 21:33:34 *** Milloflex [~ABC123@h-87-111.A175.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:33:45 *** Volley [~worf@84-119-53-183.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:37:14 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1E413.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 21:38:26 *** Jerimiah40 [~jerimiah4@h66-244-213-147.pmcnet.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:38:48 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-590fd8c3.pool.einsundeins.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:39:41 *** Jerimiah40 [~jerimiah4@h66-244-213-147.pmcnet.ca] has joined #openttd 21:39:43 *** davis- [~asd@p5B28BA91.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:43:18 *** lobster_MB [~michielbr@5350C1D1.cable.casema.nl] has joined #openttd 21:47:41 *** Tekky [~chatzilla@p5493E5A2.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 21:49:44 *** [alt]buster [~Combuster@82-171-220-59.ip.telfort.nl] has joined #openttd 21:49:44 *** [com]buster [~Combuster@82-171-220-59.ip.telfort.nl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:49:46 *** [alt]buster is now known as [com]buster 21:50:58 *** Gekz [~brendan@123-243-206-102.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:56:38 *** Roujin [~Roujin@p54973B32.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 21:57:14 <Roujin> evening 21:57:51 <orudge> G'day 22:04:48 <nappe1> ah... my own build is ready at last... :) took over a week to get it running. thanks peter1138 and SmatZ fixing those small annouances... :) we'll start the server in wednesday with starting year 1810, daylenght 2, Interest rate 25%, eGRVTS, NARS2 beta2 and of course, my own base cost that is not from this world. :) 22:05:12 <peter1138> 1810 :o 22:05:26 <nappe1> (Small Airport you like? 4 million pounds please!) ;) 22:06:13 * peter1138 gives up developing his ÃŒberpatch and goes to sleep 22:06:28 <nappe1> good night peter1138 22:11:45 *** TinoM [~Tino@i59F5C078.versanet.de] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 22:14:08 *** reldred|gone is now known as reldred 22:20:07 *** stillunknown [~stillunkn@82-136-225-75.ip.telfort.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:20:55 *** Farden [~jk3farden@ram94-7-82-232-189-236.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:24:34 *** Vikthor [~Vikthor@snat1.spoje.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:29:53 *** grumbel [~grumbel@i577B856C.versanet.de] has joined #openttd 22:32:52 *** reldred is now known as reldred|gone 22:36:37 *** reldred|gone is now known as reldred 22:36:46 *** Jerimiah40 [~jerimiah4@h66-244-213-147.pmcnet.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:37:46 *** reldred is now known as reldred|work 22:37:57 *** Jerimiah40 [~jerimiah4@h66-244-213-147.pmcnet.ca] has joined #openttd 22:40:51 *** KritiK [~Maxim@78-106-215-246.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:40:55 *** thgergo [~thgergo@members.openttdcoop.org] has left #openttd [] 22:47:11 <Kloopy> Hm. We had a desync on this nightly, haven't got a savegame for it though. Vanilla nightly, no grfs. :( 22:47:31 <Kloopy> The people who reconnected stayed there ok. 22:47:37 <Kloopy> But everyone desynced at the same time. 22:47:40 <Kloopy> No idea what caused it :( 22:47:44 <Kloopy> And now I need sleep. 22:47:45 <Kloopy> :) 22:48:09 *** Yeggstry is now known as Yeggzzz 22:52:32 <SmatZ> [00:47:40] <Kloopy> No idea what caused it :( <=== that's bad 22:53:24 <SmatZ> though I noticed a desync with disasters + YAPP ... 22:53:34 <SmatZ> I couldn't reproduce it... 22:56:36 *** Bjarni [~Bjarni@0x50a46ad5.virnxx14.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:01:25 <Marine> can i ask, why do some trains hit a signal and then turn around and go backwards and forwards? 23:04:23 <SmatZ> Marine: they reverse after a timeout 23:04:40 <SmatZ> then they reach a one-way signal at wrong direction, so they reverse back 23:05:08 <Marine> hmm 23:05:12 <Marine> thats a bit gay tbh 23:05:20 <Marine> cos it was waiting for a tran to exit the station 23:05:32 <SmatZ> it is a relict from TTO and TTD ... 23:05:39 <SmatZ> but sometimes, it may be useful 23:06:15 <SmatZ> though with one-way signals and presignals, the need for that diminished 23:06:27 *** Jerimiah40 [~jerimiah4@h66-244-213-147.pmcnet.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:06:59 <Roujin> night 23:07:03 *** Roujin [~Roujin@p54973B32.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Quit: HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <- Organize your IRC] 23:09:29 *** Jerimiah40 [~jerimiah4@h66-244-213-147.pmcnet.ca] has joined #openttd 23:10:39 *** welshdragon is now known as welshdra-gone 23:15:32 *** SmatZ is now known as SmZ 23:17:39 *** SmZ is now known as SmatZ 23:18:17 <orudge> mv /backup/users/SmatZ /home/tycoon 23:23:07 *** ben_goodger [~ben@host86-153-45-29.range86-153.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:23:31 *** ben_goodger [~ben@host86-153-45-29.range86-153.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 23:27:03 <Tekky> and with YAPP, the need for automatic train reversal is completely gone :) 23:30:37 *** Wezz6400 [~Wezz6400@145-118-111-36.fttx.bbned.nl] has quit [Quit: Zzz] 23:30:37 *** [com]buster [~Combuster@82-171-220-59.ip.telfort.nl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:30:46 *** [com]buster [~Combuster@82-171-220-59.ip.telfort.nl] has joined #openttd 23:31:10 *** Dred_furst [~Dred_furs@user-54470bf2.wfd82a.dsl.pol.co.uk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:35:56 <Marine> another question guys, why would my friends diamond train be costing him money everytime some is delievered? 23:36:10 *** reldred|work is now known as reldred|gone 23:38:26 *** VoiDeD [voided@c-71-194-132-133.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #openttd 23:43:32 <Tekky> Marine: which version of OpenTTD are you using? 23:43:44 *** Yexo_ [~Yexo@32-88-ftth.onsneteindhoven.nl] has joined #openttd 23:43:44 *** Yexo [~Yexo@32-88-ftth.onsneteindhoven.nl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:43:53 *** Brianetta [~brian@client-86-27-115-128.bmly.adsl.virgin.net] has quit [Quit: TschÃŒÃ] 23:44:18 <Marine> 0.6.2 23:49:38 <Tekky> were the diamonds transported with only one train or were they transferred by another train beforehand, using the "transfer" order? 23:50:06 <VoiDeD> Transfered 23:50:19 <VoiDeD> Transfer + unload, from diamond mines to a major hub 23:50:32 <VoiDeD> Where the train that lost money was hauling from the hub to a bank 23:51:47 <Tekky> was the distance between the diamond mine to the hub large compared to the distance from the hub to the bank? 23:51:59 <VoiDeD> Yes 23:54:40 *** roboboy [3aad2910@67.207.141.120] has joined #openttd 23:55:01 *** Marine [~chatzilla@92.16.241.57] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:55:36 *** elmex [~elmex@e180066212.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:58:29 <Tekky> the reason for your problem is that the total income you receive for transport is identical to the money you would have received if you had only used one train. 23:59:46 <Tekky> The first train is paid normally, depending on the distance it transfers the diamonds. And the second train is paid the the total sum minus what the first train has already been paid.