Times are UTC Toggle Colours
00:00:11 <Wolf01> 'night 00:00:12 <TrueBrain> ah, the world has entered 00:00:14 <TrueBrain> we are now all safe 00:00:30 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@host205-174-dynamic.60-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.] 00:00:31 <WhiteRhino> Night, Wolf. 00:01:47 <Sacro> petern: i created a custom shell script to pass it 00:01:50 <Sacro> and that doesn';t work 00:02:20 <Sacro> ah, sorted it 00:02:31 <Sacro> you changed it after 0.6.3 00:02:51 <petern> ... 00:03:05 <Sacro> you shoudl ask what version someone is running in future 00:03:23 <TrueBrain> what a nasty thing to say :( 00:04:08 * Sacro hugs TrueBrain 00:04:13 * Sacro listens to the TTD music 00:06:31 <petern> well you were the one talking about it "working before" :p 00:06:40 <Sacro> i'm sure it was 00:06:41 <Sacro> but then 00:06:47 <Sacro> that might have been using pulseaudio... 00:07:08 <Yexo> Any dev that can help me with this? http://paste.openttd.org/178600 00:08:03 <TrueBrain> Yexo: do it like NoAI 00:08:30 <Yexo> I was afraid that was going to be the answer 00:08:31 *** ecke [~ecke@xbl.dnsbl.oftc.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:08:36 <petern> why have a MAX_REGIONS? 00:08:38 <TrueBrain> not 'the' 00:08:39 <TrueBrain> just mine 00:09:18 <Yexo> petern: that'll be removed since I have to write custom save/load code anyway 00:10:15 *** cond_zenith [~blah@60-242-48-182.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #openttd 00:10:16 <TrueBrain> Yexo: or do: town_name1, disallow_industries1, disallowed_industries1, town_name2, disallow_industries2, ... 00:10:26 <petern> lol 00:10:31 <Yexo> :p 00:10:51 <petern> TrueBrain has all the best ideas 00:11:10 <cond_zenith> who do I talk to if I am having trouble logging into the wiki? 00:11:38 <Eddi|zuHause> the admin of the internet 00:11:38 <TrueBrain> only the easiest ones petern ;) 00:12:01 <cond_zenith> lol Eddi|zuHause, I'll get right on that 00:12:53 <cond_zenith> seriously though, I had to try about 10-15 times to login yesterday 00:13:00 <cond_zenith> and today it just wont login 00:13:08 <Eddi|zuHause> just talk about terrorism, bomb building and "raubmordkopieren", and at least mister SchÀuble will get to you shortly 00:13:09 <cond_zenith> and I'm sure I have the right password 00:13:12 <TrueBrain> but you did succeed in the end? 00:13:28 <cond_zenith> yesterday I succeeded, today I didn't 00:14:05 <cond_zenith> maybe I need to try typoing my password, and I fluked it yesterday 00:14:54 <cond_zenith> the other thing that doesn't help is it doesn't tell me if I got the captcha right 00:15:46 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-590fcadf.pool.einsundeins.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:15:52 <Sacro> when openttd closes, timidity keeps playing 00:15:53 <Sacro> DEVS D: 00:16:01 <TrueBrain> Sacro: a feature! 00:16:07 <petern> yes 00:16:14 <Sacro> that's a lie and you know it D: 00:16:15 <petern> this is because timidity is shit 00:16:19 <Sacro> well yes 00:16:24 <Sacro> but does OSS have midi support 00:16:33 <TrueBrain> finish the sdl_mixer patch, and stop using MIDI sound 00:16:45 *** OtherRhino [White@modem169.tmlp.net] has joined #openttd 00:16:47 *** WhiteRhino [White@modem169.tmlp.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:16:49 <petern> sdl_mixer plays midi fine ;) 00:17:00 *** OtherRhino is now known as WhiteRhino 00:17:13 <TrueBrain> even so, I would usggest to stop using MIDI :p 00:17:34 <knl> :\ 00:17:49 <petern> Sacro, run timidity an alsa sequencer mode, then call pmidi instead of timidity 00:17:50 <Eddi|zuHause> if you have a proposal for FOSS compatible music... 00:18:02 <Sacro> yes 00:18:10 <Sacro> petern: pmidi eh 00:18:10 <petern> *in 00:18:26 <TrueBrain> Eddi|zuHause: WAV not good enough? 00:18:33 <knl> wait, you can load your own MIDIs on ottd? 00:18:40 <knl> other than the stock .gm files 00:18:42 <petern> also, are you still stuck with oss? haha 00:18:44 <Eddi|zuHause> i mean the music, not the music format 00:18:51 <cond_zenith> the gm files are midi files 00:18:54 <petern> knl: well you can replace the .gm files with ... other midi files... 00:19:01 <Nite_Owl> Need to feed - later all 00:19:14 *** el_en [~lanurmi@dyn-xdsl-83-150-113-243.nebulazone.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 00:19:14 <Aali> knl: you could also play whichever music you like in another stand-alone player! 00:19:15 *** Nite_Owl [~Nite_Owl@c-65-34-177-131.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Read You Soon] 00:19:22 <knl> I can live with that 00:19:26 <Aali> unbelievable, isn't it? 00:19:31 <knl> yeah aali that's really amazing 00:19:35 <Aali> :P 00:19:37 *** Splex [~splex@121.165.245.124] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:19:38 <TrueBrain> Eddi|zuHause: I am sure we can find a few composers :) 00:19:38 <cond_zenith> I've been playing OTTD music in another player 00:19:47 <cond_zenith> cause timidity sucks 00:19:51 <knl> hmm 00:20:03 <knl> well I dunno about you, but all I had to do to get the music to work was to >install< timidity 00:20:18 <knl> i didn't even have to reopen TTD, it started working right there >_> 00:20:34 <cond_zenith> I had to do that and flip a coin every time I started ottd 00:20:41 <knl> :\ 00:20:42 <Eddi|zuHause> TrueBrain: but, please, make them not as depressed as the opengfx creators... 00:20:51 <TrueBrain> hehehehe 00:20:54 *** Vikthor [~Vikthor@161-18-80-78.strcechy.adsl-llu.static.bluetone.cz] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:20:55 <TrueBrain> why you say that? 00:20:59 <TrueBrain> (what is depressed about it?) 00:21:09 <Eddi|zuHause> the dark colours 00:21:22 <TrueBrain> ah 00:21:23 <Sacro> petern: running timidity++ as a daemon faiols :( 00:21:26 <Eddi|zuHause> the empty looking buildings 00:21:29 <TrueBrain> make a 8bpp-bright blitter ;) 00:21:29 <Sacro> ALSA lib seq_hw.c:457:(snd_seq_hw_open) open /dev/snd/seq failed: No such file or directory 00:21:41 <Sacro> probably cos I don't have alsa 00:21:51 <petern> oh you and your fucking stupid oss only sound card 00:22:01 <Sacro> yes 00:22:17 <petern> and you removing alsa support from your kernel? 00:22:18 <glx> seems you don't have hardware sequencer 00:22:22 <cond_zenith> people still use OSS? 00:22:29 <TrueBrain> does it still exist? 00:22:32 <knl> also I can't get over the fact linux only allows a single software to deliver sound to the speakers 00:22:32 <Sacro> oss is lovely 00:22:36 <world> it is exist. 00:22:37 <knl> maybe my PC is just old. 00:22:40 <Sacro> and yes, 4.1 just came out 00:22:43 <energetic> linux? 00:22:45 <world> deprecated, but exist ) 00:22:47 <knl> er, ubuntu 00:22:55 <cond_zenith> knl: depends on sound card and driver 00:22:58 <Sacro> world: not deprecated 00:23:13 <cond_zenith> and recent ALSA's set up software mixing by default 00:23:16 <glx> knl: you just need a "mixer" 00:23:18 <world> Sacro: linux-2.6.28 says that 00:23:21 <knl> mmhm 00:23:25 <TrueBrain> pulseaudio feeds multiple sounds to my soundcard :) 00:23:30 <glx> and force all apps to use it 00:23:32 <knl> but I don't really mind, I don't use ubuntu for pretty much anything 00:23:33 <Sacro> world: it's not part of the kernel source but it is still in dev 00:23:44 <Sacro> hmm, i should try kicking pulseaudio again 00:23:48 *** Splex [~splex@121.165.245.124] has joined #openttd 00:24:00 <TrueBrain> pulseaudio doesn't like my pausing mplayer .. 00:24:00 <cond_zenith> this fucking wiki is pissing me off 00:24:03 <TrueBrain> I can't resume after that 00:24:12 <world> by the way: what is "oss-only soundcard"? 00:24:16 <TrueBrain> cond_zenith can't win from simple software :) 00:24:34 *** Brianetta [~brian@client-82-14-72-109.glfd.adsl.virgin.net] has joined #openttd 00:24:49 <petern> world, one without alsa support 00:25:28 <world> petern: never mind that possible ) 00:25:33 <petern> probably some creative piece of shit that makes great claims but turns out to actually just be a DAC and everything done in software 00:25:36 <petern> maybe ;) 00:26:19 *** world [~world@213.178.53.208] has quit [Quit: ooops! reboot] 00:26:49 <cond_zenith> well I think I solved half the problem 00:27:07 <cond_zenith> firefox was remembering the wrong password 00:27:27 <knl> that's probably an issue, maybe 00:27:43 <cond_zenith> what firefox was remembering should be the right one 00:27:45 *** world [~world@213.178.53.208] has joined #openttd 00:27:49 <cond_zenith> but I guess I made a typo 00:27:59 <Aali> petern: actually, its the other way around, creative makes okay cards, their drivers suck balls 00:27:59 <cond_zenith> and duplicated that typo when I logged in yesterday 00:28:58 <petern> "okay" but nothing special 00:29:03 <petern> usually with hidden gotchas 00:29:10 <petern> like the emu10k's fixed 48000... 00:29:33 <petern> hehe, gravis did that :D 00:29:54 <petern> gravis ultrasound with 32 polyphony midi 00:30:28 <petern> except it ran at some stupidly low sample rate when using all the voices 00:30:41 <petern> and the sb 64 gold... 00:30:52 <petern> was 32 with the rest done in software :D 00:31:00 <petern> hmm, 00:30 00:31:03 <petern> goodnight 00:31:16 <TrueBrain> night petern 00:31:19 <TrueBrain> tnx for your monologe :) 00:31:27 <petern> you're welcome 00:32:00 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r14949 /trunk/src/ (126 files in 17 dirs): -Cleanup: pointer coding style 00:32:14 <TrueBrain> nice patch killer Rubidium :p 00:32:28 <petern> :D 00:32:31 <petern> anti-tron! 00:32:48 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B77DAD.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [] 00:33:02 <Rubidium> should we de-DeMorgan some stuff too? 00:33:06 <Rubidium> ;) 00:33:11 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B76641.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 00:37:50 <cond_zenith> well that's embarrasing 00:37:59 <cond_zenith> turns out my password was blank 00:38:40 <cond_zenith> why does the wiki even allow that 00:39:19 <petern> just to make you come on irc and embarrass yourself 00:39:51 *** cond_zenith is now known as ConditionalZenith 00:40:32 <knl> and then post it on bash.org! 00:40:51 <petern> oh, yeah, nini 00:41:05 <Sacro> sigh, stupid oss 00:43:06 *** world [~world@213.178.53.208] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:47:52 *** const86 [~const@xbl.dnsbl.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 00:49:08 *** [com]buster [~Eternal@cust-03-55bf402e.adsl.scarlet.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 00:49:18 *** KritiK [~Maxim@78-106-61-173.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:53:36 *** const86 [~const@xbl.dnsbl.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: I'll be back] 00:54:04 <ConditionalZenith> do signals still need to be 2 way for a train to pick the free one? 00:54:39 <Aali> no 00:55:41 <Aali> if they are two-way, a train will NEVER pick the red one, which may be useful (and may also be bad) but is a bit of a hack 00:56:01 <Aali> in short, build one-ways unless you know you need a two-way 00:56:07 <ConditionalZenith> I just remember in the past, if they were one way, they would always pick the closest 00:56:17 <Aali> its not like that anymore 00:56:24 <Aali> pathfinders are much smarter 00:56:44 <ConditionalZenith> yes, it's come a long way since the origianal 00:56:59 *** const86 [~const@tower.mimas.ru] has joined #openttd 01:01:27 <goodger> the original pathfinder didn't seem to bother finding a path, but instead just drove in the general direction of the target 01:02:15 <Aali> thats how my "pathfinder" works when I'm going somewhere I've never been before :P 01:02:24 *** TinoM [~Tino@i59F5EA83.versanet.de] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 01:05:13 *** StarLionIsaac [~chatzilla@user-54453b5d.lns4-c11.dsl.pol.co.uk] has joined #openttd 01:05:53 *** Zahl [~Zahl@g228021233.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Quit: Rhabarberbarbarabarbarbarenbartbarbierbierbar] 01:06:17 <Eddi|zuHause> <Aali> if they are two-way, a train will NEVER pick the red one, which may be useful (and may also be bad) but is a bit of a hack <- there is a setting to turn that off... 01:06:25 <Eddi|zuHause> it should be default off, imho... 01:06:54 <Eddi|zuHause> but mo is too h, i suppose... 01:07:11 <ConditionalZenith> in which case should a train pick a red 2 way signal? 01:07:36 <Aali> if the red two-way signal leads to a better path :) 01:07:36 <ConditionalZenith> unless we make the pathfinder start looking at which way a train is going 01:08:44 *** NukeBuster [~NukeBuste@xbl.dnsbl.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: http://www.interplay.com/] 01:09:32 *** xahodo [~xahodo@xahodo.demon.nl] has joined #openttd 01:18:34 *** FR^2 [frr@oscar.frquadrat.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:21:16 *** StarLionIsaac [~chatzilla@user-54453b5d.lns4-c11.dsl.pol.co.uk] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.84 [Firefox 3.0.5/2008120122]] 01:29:27 <Eddi|zuHause> i found that treating signals as dead end generally only leads to lost trains 01:33:11 *** Bergee [~bergee@c-68-40-190-70.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has joined #openttd 01:35:50 *** Aitor [~aitor@118.Red-213-97-221.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #openttd 01:36:55 *** OwenS [~OwenS@host86-128-252-186.range86-128.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:40:25 *** Aitor [~aitor@118.Red-213-97-221.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [] 01:40:37 *** Aitor [~aitor@118.Red-213-97-221.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #openttd 01:40:44 *** Aitor [~aitor@118.Red-213-97-221.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has left #openttd [] 01:43:25 *** Tefad [~tefad@c-75-75-1-141.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has joined #openttd 01:45:53 *** world [~world@213.178.53.208] has joined #openttd 01:46:07 *** knl [~sauce@200-206-182-46.dsl.telesp.net.br] has quit [] 01:59:24 *** world [~world@213.178.53.208] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:25:09 *** Tim [~Tim@p5B37E0BF.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:27:32 <Belugas> !seen someone 02:27:38 <Belugas> @seen someone 02:27:38 <DorpsGek> Belugas: someone was last seen in #openttd 50 weeks, 0 days, 7 hours, 35 minutes, and 15 seconds ago: * Someone here is gay 02:27:46 <Belugas> hahaha!!!! 02:28:48 <ConditionalZenith> how will we get someone to do all our stuff if he wont come on IRC 02:29:22 <goodger> ConditionalZenith: go to his house and poke him? 02:29:34 <ConditionalZenith> I don't know where he lives :( 02:30:31 <goodger> yell "Someone! help!" and follow the first person who comes running toward you 02:31:59 * Belugas runs away from the hail 02:32:50 <Yexo> Belugas: about FS#2520, I think coolerkry wants to set the start date for new games to a specific date instead of only to a year. Your close messages seems to indicate you understood him differently 02:34:34 <Yexo> anway, I need sleep! good night all 02:35:26 *** energetic [~opera@ip82-139-119-221.lijbrandt.net] has left #openttd [] 02:36:14 *** stillunknown [~stillunkn@82.136.228.38] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 02:37:37 <Belugas> well... one day, people should really learn to express themselves more clearly 02:37:52 <Belugas> cannot GUESS what they want all the time 02:38:35 <goodger> Belugas: actually, in english, you are expected to. sentences mean more than the sum of their parts and sometimes are completely unrelated to their parts, it's maddening 02:39:32 <Belugas> shall we turn bugs.openttd.org to french only ? 02:39:32 <Belugas> heheh 02:39:43 <goodger> that might be amusing 02:40:06 <ConditionalZenith> until you get people who just run their bug reports through google translate 02:41:18 <Eddi|zuHause> in german, sentences mean exactly what they say, but you need at least a push down automaton to parse them, and when you translate them to english, they end up as three separate sentences 02:41:29 <goodger> *nod* 02:41:42 <goodger> actually google translate is shockingly capable nowadays 02:41:50 <goodger> it even correctly translated "superlative" into russian 02:42:39 <Eddi|zuHause> well, you notice with my sentences, they would never be as long as this if i were native english speaker 02:42:55 <ConditionalZenith> I'm not sure 02:43:14 <ConditionalZenith> I'm a native english speaker, and my sentences can get pretty long 02:43:34 <goodger> sentences can be pages long 02:43:43 <goodger> you just have to use a semicolon instead of a full stop 02:44:51 <Eddi|zuHause> i used sentences of half a page in an essay in german class. 02:44:57 <Belugas> anyway, fs2520 should be meaningless, even if he expressed it better, saying stuff like"you should be able to indicate the exact date at which the game should start" 02:45:01 <Aali> I can make infinitely long words and still be grammatically correct in my native language 02:45:05 <Eddi|zuHause> gave me bonus points for grammar, but malus points for style... 02:45:28 <Belugas> like... who fucking care about the 13th or 15th of june 1935 to start it? 02:45:30 <Belugas> blaaaaaaa 02:45:40 <ConditionalZenith> "malus points", I'm not quite sure that's right 02:46:15 <goodger> ConditionalZenith: in latin, "bon" is the opposite of "mal" 02:46:24 <Eddi|zuHause> the funny thing with german sentences is, you can not only attach them to one another, but also split a sentence, and embed another whole sentence in them. the meaning of the original sentence can be completely changed by the last word, which may be several pages futher :p 02:46:27 <Aali> Belugas: and if you really want that, you could just start it in singleplayer, fast forward to that date and save it again 02:46:36 <goodger> heh, joy 02:47:17 <ConditionalZenith> in english, malus doesn't mean "negative" or "penalty", like your context suggests 02:47:34 <ConditionalZenith> it can mean "evil", etc. 02:47:48 <Eddi|zuHause> you occasionally end up with huge stacks of finite verb forms, which you need to close the sentence-brackets ;) 02:48:12 <goodger> ConditionalZenith: it can mean whatever the speaker wants it to mean 02:48:14 <Eddi|zuHause> ConditionalZenith: sure you don't mean "malicious"? 02:48:46 <Eddi|zuHause> malus is the opposite of bonus, that is what i learned, and that is what i mean 02:48:58 <goodger> *nod* malus is a genus of apples, it has no other defined meaning 02:49:18 <goodger> it being the opposite of bonus would make absolute sense etymologically 02:50:11 <Eddi|zuHause> "das wÀre ja logisch, wo kÀmen wir denn da hin" 02:51:23 <goodger> allerdings# 02:51:32 *** energetic [~opera@ip82-139-119-221.lijbrandt.net] has joined #openttd 02:53:15 <ConditionalZenith> malicious can mean that too 02:53:34 <ConditionalZenith> but that is generally put with an action, rather than a noun 02:53:55 <goodger> ConditionalZenith: you're saying malicious is an adverb? 02:54:24 <ConditionalZenith> I think technically it is an adjective, it is just mostly used as an adverb 02:54:56 <goodger> er... no, it is an adjective 02:55:01 <goodger> the adverb form is "maliciously" 02:55:02 <ConditionalZenith> and malus is hardly used at all 02:55:16 <ConditionalZenith> you are right 02:55:22 <goodger> I know I am 02:55:40 <ConditionalZenith> I was meaning in common usage, one would usually apply malicious only to an action 02:56:09 <ConditionalZenith> as in "that action was malicious" 02:56:28 <ConditionalZenith> and typically one wouldn't say "that person is malicious" 02:56:45 <ConditionalZenith> even though it is probably technically correct 02:57:41 <ConditionalZenith> anyway, I'm no linguist, and it's probably showing 02:58:11 <goodger> I've said that before 02:58:21 <goodger> but I'm trolling... sorry 02:58:32 * goodger resumes writing 02:59:20 <ConditionalZenith> your trolling is more subtle than I am used to 02:59:39 <Eddi|zuHause> http://dict.leo.org/forum/viewUnsolvedquery.php?idThread=205106&idForum=1&lp=ende&lang=de <- i think i am not the only person having a problem properly translating "malus" into a language that has so many latin roots... 03:00:06 <goodger> heh, ludicrous situation 03:00:27 <goodger> the top three quarters of english are latin 03:00:49 <goodger> in fact, the word "quarter" is latin 03:00:58 <goodger> or latinate, at least 03:01:35 <ConditionalZenith> I thought most european languages had many words largely rooted in latin 03:02:04 *** TinoDidriksen [~projectjj@port432.ds1-od.adsl.cybercity.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 03:02:11 <Eddi|zuHause> english and german are fundamentally different in these aspects 03:02:43 <Eddi|zuHause> because england was konquered and developed by the romans, while the germans defeated them and drove them out of their territory 03:03:03 <ConditionalZenith> konquered should be conquered 03:03:11 <ConditionalZenith> more english craziness 03:03:14 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, i noticed ;) 03:03:58 <goodger> ConditionalZenith: french, spanish, catalan, italian and portugese are all latinate; german, norwegian, swedish and dutch are germanic. english is germanic by grammar and common words, and latinate by complex words 03:04:01 <Eddi|zuHause> in germany, latin was only used by the highly edjucated people, for example clerics 03:04:31 *** Ridayah [~ridayah@173-19-228-199.client.mchsi.com] has quit [Quit: The Rise and Fall of the Heavens themselves is dependant upon Humanity's belief and disbelief.] 03:04:32 <goodger> the same in england, but french merged into the common tongue around 1200 03:04:55 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: belugas * r14950 /trunk/ (3 files in 2 dirs): -Codechange: MSVC projects and source list update 03:05:21 <goodger> we have three words for the same thing: "royal", "regnant" and "kingly" --- french, latin, germanic respectively 03:05:37 <goodger> it's a sordid mess in theory, but it has produced a lovely rich language 03:05:45 <Eddi|zuHause> the basic people spoke their germanic language ("theodisce" ~> "deutsch" meaning "spoken by the people") 03:05:45 *** TinoDidriksen [~projectjj@port432.ds1-od.adsl.cybercity.dk] has joined #openttd 03:06:00 *** Ridayah [~ridayah@173-19-228-199.client.mchsi.com] has joined #openttd 03:06:23 <Eddi|zuHause> it has traded a rich grammar for a rich vocabulary 03:06:29 <goodger> ah, that's where deutsch comes from. I always wondered why germany's name is different in all languages --- I suppose "allemand" is french for the same thing? 03:07:07 <Eddi|zuHause> no, "allemand" in french comes from a germanic tribe "Allemannen", which resided in the south west of modern germany 03:07:10 <goodger> it doesn't need a rich grammar, it has an incomprehensible system of auxiliaries and idiom \o/ 03:07:21 <goodger> ah, "all men"? 03:07:24 <goodger> goodo 03:07:33 <Eddi|zuHause> not sure about that deduction ;) 03:07:37 <goodger> that just leaves the issue of the word "germany" 03:07:49 <Eddi|zuHause> that's of latin roots 03:07:59 <goodger> which as far as I can tell was plucked from the air by the English in the late 19th century 03:08:31 <Eddi|zuHause> they called the land they were trying to conquer "germania" 03:08:44 <goodger> ah 03:08:49 <Eddi|zuHause> until they were driven out of there at 9 A.D. 03:09:02 <Belugas> ho... shit... 03:09:03 <goodger> 9 AD? sounds a bit specific? 03:09:11 <Eddi|zuHause> in the so called "battle of teutoburg forest" or "varus battle" 03:09:12 <goodger> do you mean C9 AD? 03:09:18 <goodger> oh, 9 AD 03:09:19 <goodger> goodo 03:09:42 <goodger> the roman empire amuses me because the US has clearly not learned from the story of its collapse 03:09:45 <Eddi|zuHause> 9 A.D., as in the year 9 after christ's supposed birth 03:10:20 *** Brianetta [~brian@client-82-14-72-109.glfd.adsl.virgin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:10:20 <goodger> thought you meant the ninth century until you specified a battle 03:10:45 <Eddi|zuHause> that's one of the few battles that were called after the losing side 03:10:54 <goodger> I really should sit down and read up on history. my understanding even of 1970s britain is pretty appalling 03:11:25 <Eddi|zuHause> it's one of THE most influential turning points in europe's history 03:12:10 * goodger dutifully looks it up here and now 03:13:08 <Eddi|zuHause> there's a saying in germany 03:13:17 <Eddi|zuHause> "what happend in the year 59 A.D.?" 03:13:31 <Eddi|zuHause> "the 50th anniversary of the battle of teutoburg forest" 03:13:58 <goodger> heh 03:14:39 <goodger> I feel weird talking to foreigners because my country has been politically stable since the 1500s. it's something of a unique case 03:15:00 <goodger> germany has not even been stable since I was born :S 03:15:01 <Eddi|zuHause> that was after you were invaded 6 times ;) 03:15:03 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: belugas * r14951 /trunk/ (3 files in 2 dirs): -Revert: partly what has been done on r14950. That would teach me to update repos before 03:15:37 <ConditionalZenith> My country just has not much history 03:15:55 <ConditionalZenith> (Australia that is) 03:15:57 <goodger> ConditionalZenith: indeed :P 03:16:29 <goodger> "if we dumped a load of convicts on an island and left them to it for 200 years, what would they say to us on our return?" "g'day." 03:16:33 <Sacro> about as much history as strangeways 03:16:50 <ConditionalZenith> well there were a lot of non-convicts who came too 03:16:59 <goodger> yeah, I know, it's a joke :P 03:17:04 <ConditionalZenith> and most of the convicts had only committed minor crimes 03:17:30 <ConditionalZenith> and personally, I don't say g'day 03:17:45 <Eddi|zuHause> goodger: incidentally, the inherent instability of germany can be traced back to the outcome of the battle in 9 A.D. ;) 03:17:50 <Sacro> goodger: just don't go to brisbane 03:18:16 <goodger> the worrying thing is that for 100 years, the US was doing rather better than the UK, despite being founded by a lot of religious nut-jobs we had effectively deported; and now australia is doing _much_ better than us, despite being founded by a lot of convicts that we had officially deported 03:18:19 <Eddi|zuHause> (several times removed, of course) 03:18:26 <goodger> Eddi|zuHause: indeed 03:18:42 <ConditionalZenith> how are you defining "better"? 03:19:42 <goodger> ConditionalZenith: well, the US was a beacon of freedom and egalitarianism (unlike the UK even now), and (again unlike the UK) australia does not have record-breaking budget deficits and a recession 03:19:57 <ConditionalZenith> ahh, well we don't yet 03:20:04 <Eddi|zuHause> the sad thing is, the USA started to perform "better" once germany started to evict... people... 03:20:19 <ConditionalZenith> wait a bit until the US gives us a recession 03:20:35 <Eddi|zuHause> you mean like 2 months ago? 03:20:50 <ConditionalZenith> yeah, it will take time to hit us badly tohugh 03:21:24 <goodger> ConditionalZenith: I am informed that the australian dollar has collapsed along with the iron ore export market, but that unemployment is not skyrocketing due to the use of a large budget surplus to fund a civil engineering programme that will shortly create internal demand for the same iron ore 03:21:46 <ConditionalZenith> well I haven't followed things that closely 03:21:51 <goodger> Eddi|zuHause: "people"? are we talking about 1946? 03:21:52 <ConditionalZenith> but that sounds about right 03:22:09 <Eddi|zuHause> goodger: you seriously need to learn history... 03:22:38 <Eddi|zuHause> 1933-1945, nazi-reigned germany 03:22:50 <goodger> Eddi|zuHause: you said worryingly. I know a number of germans were naturalised into the US in the years after the war ended 03:22:52 <ConditionalZenith> 1945 or 1944? 03:23:33 <ConditionalZenith> I thought the allies occupied Germany in 1944 03:24:13 <Eddi|zuHause> they hardly managed to set foot on continental europe in 1944 03:24:38 <goodger> ergo, if those germans included former nazis, who might be assigned the status of "people" including the quotes rather than people, then one might think it a sad thing that they improved the situation in the US 03:24:58 <goodger> do you mean the 19th-century US immigration from europe? 03:25:47 <Eddi|zuHause> no, i mean the massively increased amount of "non-aric" people who were fleeing from suppression and imprisonment, potentially death 03:25:53 <goodger> ConditionalZenith: comparatively, the UK is almost entirely dependent upon its banking sector, which is of course collapsing due to the subprime mortgage cock-up, and its retail sector, which is collapsing because it requires funds from the financial sector. we have barely any manufacturing industry left. to top it off, we have massive budget deficits, caused by a chancellor who for ten years thought he could spend more and 03:25:53 <goodger> tax less, but conceal it by awarding contracts to private companies 03:26:02 <Sacro> In Windows Internet Explorer 7, a Web site cannot set a cookie if the following conditions are true: 03:26:02 <goodger> ...ah. I see :S 03:26:05 <Sacro> * The Domain attribute is in uppercase characters. * The Domain attribute has an odd number of characters. 03:26:43 <ConditionalZenith> "In Windows" well there's your problem :P 03:26:45 <goodger> Sacro: send the complete text of what you're reading to the Daily WTF 03:28:29 <goodger> the subject of 1933-1945 germany makes me squirm. I constructed a few political ideas that I later realised were implemented by the nazis, and felt rather sick at having thought they were good 03:29:04 <Belugas> hahahaha!!!! "I take it upon myself to" <----- lovely!! 03:29:22 <goodger> Belugas: what?! 03:29:46 *** roboboy [7248ca68@webchat.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 03:29:51 <Eddi|zuHause> several "concepts" that were implemented under the nazi reign are still valid 03:30:04 <glx> like ICBM 03:30:06 <Eddi|zuHause> for example that the government collects taxes for the churches 03:30:26 <Eddi|zuHause> or the "Autobahn" system that they used to reduce unemployment 03:30:35 <goodger> yes, they were good ideas 03:30:48 <goodger> I refer to the practise of shooting disabled people 03:31:06 <goodger> or, if The Pianist is anything to go by, throwing them off balconies 03:31:07 *** OtherRhino [White@modem172.tmlp.net] has joined #openttd 03:31:10 <Eddi|zuHause> that is a less common practice, nowadays :p 03:31:14 <goodger> yes 03:32:04 *** TinoDidriksen [~projectjj@port432.ds1-od.adsl.cybercity.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 03:32:12 <ConditionalZenith> goodger: Belugas: what?! <--http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=38343&start=20 03:32:12 <Sacro> shame really 03:32:18 <Sacro> it's kind of stopping evolution 03:32:46 <joachim> "04:09 < goodger> we have three words for the same thing: "royal", "regnant" and "kingly" 03:32:49 <joachim> " 03:32:58 <goodger> yes, that's what I thought --- could we accelerate the evolutionary process by allowing people to die where they would die in the wild? 03:33:12 <thingwath> No. :-) 03:33:17 <goodger> no, I later concluded, we must not 03:33:19 <joachim> so do we (.no), not special 03:34:12 <goodger> ConditionalZenith: heheh 03:35:10 *** WhiteRhino [White@modem169.tmlp.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 03:35:22 *** glx [glx@bny93-6-82-245-156-124.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Quit: bye] 03:35:45 <goodger> my current ethical dilemma is, is it ethical to kill a potential human because they will be born with cystic fibrosis or the "breast cancer gene" or Down's syndrome? currently I think "yes" for nonviable foetuses 03:35:49 *** TinoDidriksen [~projectjj@port432.ds1-od.adsl.cybercity.dk] has joined #openttd 03:36:36 <goodger> the difficulty lies in determining when something stops being an organism and starts being a human 03:36:55 <joachim> did you consider any human will probably contribute in earth's destruction? 03:37:13 <Tefad> holy crap is this #openttd or #crazyethics 03:37:30 <joachim> goodger: what? is a human not an organism? 03:37:43 <Tefad> humans have sentience 03:37:44 <thingwath> umm, being human and not organism is not very easy 03:38:03 <Tefad> but yes that is an ambiguous statement 03:38:13 <goodger> I mean an organism as in, a life-form but not a person 03:38:30 <Tefad> sadly organism has no exceptions 03:38:30 <goodger> when does a fertilised egg turn into a person? 03:38:40 <Tefad> i claim sentience 03:38:55 <Tefad> but others disagree. 03:38:56 <joachim> goodger: what is your earliest memory? 03:39:01 <goodger> sentience appears only at age three-ish 03:39:26 <Tefad> i think i remember being two 03:39:40 <Tefad> like five memories or something 03:40:00 <goodger> joachim: my third birthday party, only brief glimpses though. earliest memory I have of having an opinion on something specific is when I was four 03:40:27 <goodger> oh, I remember moving house aged three, as well 03:40:29 <Tefad> i remember killing a hamster when i was 3 or so 03:40:32 <joachim> ok. you started being a person about three then, should be okay to kill you until that 03:40:46 <goodger> I find that morally unacceptable 03:40:49 <thingwath> I have no real memories about anything before ten years :) just random fragments 03:40:52 <Tefad> i didn't know about suffocation and air-tight containers... 03:40:57 <goodger> dunno why 03:41:04 <Tefad> ten? 03:41:06 <goodger> Tefad: ah. I'll bet you didn't know about death either 03:41:09 <Eddi|zuHause> you can have centuries worth of discussions on this topic 03:41:10 <joachim> well, i think the transition you're asking for happens well after birth, not before 03:41:15 <Tefad> goodger: not really : D 03:41:27 <Tefad> i think i was more along the lines of "aw i broke it" 03:41:40 <Tefad> but i knew my mother would be pissed so i hid it from her 03:42:10 <goodger> :S 03:42:11 <Eddi|zuHause> the catholic church thinks even "potential humans" (as in sperms) should be cared for the same way as humans 03:42:32 <Tefad> also at age 7 i knew how certain things worked better than how my mother did 03:42:54 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, they are called "computer" :p 03:43:05 <goodger> I would be profoundly disgusted if someone proposed killing babies aged two because they had a hereditary disease. I think we have to go on the date when the organism can survive outside its mother 03:43:27 <Tefad> goodger: homeostasis it is. 03:43:39 <goodger> yeah, that'll do 03:43:48 <goodger> Tefad: I remember initially not being able to fathom reading and then suddenly finding it pathetically easy 03:43:51 <Eddi|zuHause> whatever point you chose, there are unlimited amount of people who will argue against you 03:44:07 <joachim> yeah, it's pointless 03:44:16 <Tefad> Eddi|zuHause: indeed. i don't find it a topic to have a firm opinion in 03:44:19 <thingwath> they are all going to die anyway, so why should I care... 03:44:20 <joachim> we need to focus on defending against AI 03:44:21 <Tefad> more of a consensus thing. 03:44:27 <goodger> and also the twenty-four-hour clock; I couldn't understand that at all for ages, and then, shortly afterward, I didn't know about analogue clocks 03:44:29 *** energetic [~opera@ip82-139-119-221.lijbrandt.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 03:44:32 <ConditionalZenith> viability outside the womb depends on the level of medical technology available 03:44:48 <Tefad> ConditionalZenith: zero medical technology permitted. 03:44:49 <goodger> ConditionalZenith: shall we say an absence of medical technology? 03:44:57 <joachim> shall we not? 03:44:58 <Tefad> that isn't homeostasis if machines are involved. 03:45:19 <ConditionalZenith> well there are premature births, which would have resulted in the baby's death 03:45:25 <Eddi|zuHause> let's head back to the stone ages, where child death rate was >70% 03:45:25 <Tefad> yup. 03:45:34 <Tefad> Eddi|zuHause: sounds like a plan 03:45:36 <thingwath> Tefad: then expect like 1/5 of losses, at least 03:45:38 <Eddi|zuHause> and often dragged the mother with them 03:45:49 <Tefad> would keep stupid people from having sex 03:45:51 <thingwath> maybe even 1/3 03:46:06 <Tefad> if they know it could end in death or great emotional discomfort 03:46:20 <goodger> wait, wait, we're not talking about withholding medical treatment 03:46:29 <Eddi|zuHause> i don't think that idea worked back then, either :p 03:46:40 <goodger> we're talking about the age at which a foetus has human rights 03:46:56 <goodger> I agree with "homoeostasis" 03:47:10 <thingwath> 18 or 21, depending on country where you are ;) 03:47:11 <joachim> you are assuming a philosophy where humans have rights 03:47:18 <Eddi|zuHause> goodger: sure, if you argue about withholding genetic treatment, you may as well argue about medical treatment 03:47:36 <goodger> I'm not talking about withholding genetic treatment at all 03:48:07 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, you are doing "genetic conditioning" of a population 03:48:25 <goodger> I'm talking about the age at which a human foetus goes from being something that can be discarded because it's broken to being a human being that you must not murder 03:48:53 <goodger> which is the problem with genetic screening 03:49:26 <goodger> if you detect that a foetus has Down's syndrome, should you abort it? what should be the maximum age beyond which you must _not_ abort it? 03:49:33 <goodger> etc. 03:50:03 <Eddi|zuHause> you can also argue the same way the other way around, when does someone stop to have the right of maintaining his "alive" status (as in aided deaths in hospitals) 03:50:33 <joachim> or should there be a maximum age... 03:50:36 <Eddi|zuHause> when do you judge "higher values" over something that the person in question might object to, if it had the chance? 03:50:37 <goodger> my cold clinical mind tells me to abort it unless it is capable of homeostasis, because its quality of life will be so poor, but I'm not sure I could bring myself to kill a living thing 03:51:08 <ConditionalZenith> joachim: age isn't the sole determiner of quality of life 03:51:08 <joachim> how do you know it's quality of life will be "so poor"? 03:51:09 <Eddi|zuHause> or when do you let the next-of-kin decide? 03:51:26 <goodger> Eddi|zuHause: when the patient is incapable of making a rational decision 03:51:42 <joachim> many people live great lives with down's 03:51:57 <goodger> yes, but their lives would be infinitely improved without it 03:52:14 <Eddi|zuHause> goodger: exactly, so then turn that around again, when does a person start to be able to do "rational" decisions? 03:52:14 <ConditionalZenith> goodger: that argument can be made with almost any condition 03:52:35 <Eddi|zuHause> 3? 7? 16? 21? 03:52:37 <goodger> Eddi|zuHause: a foetus can't make any form of decision, you have to decide for it 03:52:40 <goodger> oh... 03:52:50 <goodger> I'd say you should analyse the individual's psyche 03:53:05 <goodger> ConditionalZenith: I know, I'm using Down's as an example 03:53:34 <Eddi|zuHause> so it would be ok to kill a 3 year old that is diagnosed with down's syndrome, because it cannot make a rational decision? 03:53:35 <ConditionalZenith> I just don't see where you are going. Is that an argument for aborting? 03:53:52 <Eddi|zuHause> simply by their parent's decision? 03:54:05 <goodger> if I conceived a child [not bloody likely] and the screening process revealed cystic fibrosis, as a better example, I would find myself wanting to abort it because such a child does not deserve such suffering throughout its shortened life, but not wanting to kill the baby because it deserves life anyway 03:54:42 <goodger> Eddi|zuHause: no, that baby has already been born --- and no, I do not know why that makes a difference to me 03:54:42 <Eddi|zuHause> not sure what that is... 03:55:01 <Eddi|zuHause> does that have a german name? 03:55:14 <thingwath> do you really want to care about child with Down syndrome, if you don't really have to? 03:55:32 <ConditionalZenith> do you want to care for any children if you don' 03:55:35 <ConditionalZenith> t have to? 03:55:38 <joachim> Eddi|zuHause: 04:09 < goodger> we have three words for the same thing: "royal", "regnant" and "kingly" 03:55:39 <thingwath> No :-) 03:55:40 <goodger> Eddi|zuHause: Mukoviszidose 03:55:40 <Eddi|zuHause> it's also an interesting fact... most medical terms have a perfectly simple german variant, but the english use latin-based terminology 03:55:41 <ConditionalZenith> damn my keyboard 03:55:41 <joachim> wops 03:55:46 <joachim> Mukoviszidose 03:56:59 <goodger> thingwath: I don't consider the parents wanting to care for the child a valid point. to say "abort, I don't want to have to deal with a Down's child" would be incredibly weak and selfish 03:57:36 <joachim> have you met anyone with down's? 03:58:52 <goodger> joachim: yes. I can't imagine he was aware of having it. it was decidedly... well, pitiful is too harsh, but I can't think of a better word 03:59:07 <goodger> I am aware of sounding like a monster while saying that sentence 03:59:19 <joachim> did he seem to suffer? 03:59:49 <goodger> not explicitly, but his quality of life was certainly reduced 04:00:07 <joachim> i know about a bunct of people "suffering" from down's, and they live richer lives than many of us normals 04:00:07 *** fjb [~frank@p5485F0DA.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [] 04:00:08 <thingwath> goodger: Is it selfish to expect something in return when having a child, which is... very expensive and hard work? 04:00:10 <goodger> down's is a very bad example, sorry 04:00:33 <joachim> might be our social system, but i don't think down's is a very good example 04:00:43 <goodger> thingwath: "you touch it, you bought it!" 04:00:57 <OtherRhino> You could think that a child with Down's syndrom doesn't have the same Quality of Life scope that someone without it has. Maybe for him, he's at the high end of his scope. 04:00:59 *** Zorn [zorn@e177233208.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #openttd 04:01:24 <goodger> OtherRhino: I consider absolute values more important 04:01:34 <OtherRhino> ...dang. 04:01:34 <joachim> absolute values? 04:01:35 *** OtherRhino is now known as WhiteRhino 04:01:46 <goodger> joachim: of quality of life. I know it's not measurable 04:01:49 *** elmex_ [~elmex@e180068116.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #openttd 04:01:57 <joachim> but it's absolute? 04:02:04 <goodger> in a sense 04:02:14 <WhiteRhino> If a person is born blind, they know nothing but being blind; their scope of Quality of Life involves being blind. 04:02:35 <goodger> to say that a man's quality of life is good compared to his expectation does not negate the fact that his quality of life is poor compared to others' 04:02:56 <joachim> good luck with that 04:03:03 <joachim> i'm pulling out 04:03:35 <thingwath> goodger: But I think we assume, that I know this before the birth. 04:04:02 <WhiteRhino> I dunno. I think that if someone doesn't know more than what they were born with, then you can wish they had been born "normal" but feeling sorry for them doesn't fit as well. The person could be having a happier life than most "normal" people. 04:04:22 <goodger> well, if they are, then fine 04:04:42 <thingwath> Most likely he has. But what about the parents? 04:05:04 <joachim> what about people who experience life on a higher level than you, goodger 04:05:34 <goodger> if he is not happier with the condition, as in the vast majority of heritable diseases, then it would be better for him not to have it; and at that point, you must compare having the condition to not living, in terms of suffering 04:05:39 <Eddi|zuHause> "relative" to which "authority" do you define "absolute" "values"? 04:05:43 *** OtherRhino [White@modem170.tmlp.net] has joined #openttd 04:05:44 <goodger> joachim: what about them? 04:05:50 <joachim> should they abort you? 04:06:09 <goodger> they didn't need to, I very nearly aborted myself 04:06:09 <joachim> you won't reach their absolute value of "true life" 04:06:49 *** elmex [~elmex@e180068043.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 04:06:52 *** elmex_ is now known as elmex 04:07:07 <goodger> Eddi|zuHause: I think you have to define it as an index 04:07:55 <goodger> joachim: if I am suffering with the condition I hypothetically have, then it may well have been more humane to abort me rather than allow me to live and suffer 04:08:07 <joachim> that is true 04:08:20 *** Zorni [zorn@e177238066.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 04:08:33 <joachim> but then, most people will suffer during many and long periods of their lives, it's part of it 04:09:07 <goodger> I would certainly be happier without asperger syndrome, but not to the extent that I would rather not exist than have it 04:09:43 <joachim> well, humans aren't objective when it comes to not existing 04:09:46 <joachim> ;) 04:09:55 <goodger> joachim: basic principle of sentience: sentient beings shun suffering. if you think suffering is part of the human experience you're correct, but if you think it should not be minimised, then that would class you as some sort of sadist 04:10:28 <goodger> yeah, I prefer to exist 04:10:47 <thingwath> Hm, I'm not sure. 04:10:53 <OtherRhino> What about the medical saying "If it hurts, that means it's working?" =P 04:11:19 <thingwath> It is not so great to be. 04:12:01 <joachim> infinitely greater and worse than not to be. 04:12:03 *** WhiteRhino [White@modem172.tmlp.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 04:12:11 *** OtherRhino is now known as WhiteRhino 04:12:16 <goodger> yeah 04:12:20 <goodger> unfortunately if I had been tested positive for some heritable condition, my parents could not ask me [as I am now] whether I would rather not exist, nineteen years ago, because I [as I am now] didn't exist nineteen years ago. they would have had to make the decision themselves 04:13:37 <goodger> ^ the preceding sentence contained clauses of extreme temporal complexity and should not have been read by young children 04:15:09 <goodger> hmm 04:15:39 <goodger> trying to explain that sentence causes me to think of myself as an emergent property of a neural network. this is getting rather metaphysical 04:16:06 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, like the kind of young children that sits up at 5AM and reads IRC channels of supposed train simulation games 04:16:33 <thingwath> 5AM CET 04:16:37 <WhiteRhino> Supposed? Now you're saying TTD may or may not exist? >.> 04:16:45 <goodger> heh 04:16:57 <goodger> Eddi|zuHause: a joke. "the following program contains scenes of extreme violence and should not be viewed by young children" is used on US television 04:17:18 <WhiteRhino> Day is night and night is day. The rain is falling up! 04:17:24 <joachim> up? 04:17:50 <Eddi|zuHause> in germany they only use phrases like "Diese Sendung ist fÃŒr Zuschauer unter 16 Jahren nicht geeignet" 04:18:45 <goodger> we just have a watershed hour 04:19:02 <goodger> before 9pm, very limited content restrictions 04:19:06 <goodger> after 9pm, anything goes 04:19:46 <WhiteRhino> Meanwhile over here I can still watch stuff like Curious George at like 2am. 04:20:02 <goodger> WhiteRhino: I didn't know the president had his own television programme 04:20:16 <Eddi|zuHause> it's more differentiated here, i think, something like: at 20:00, 12 years, 22:00, 16 years, 23:00, 18 years 04:20:20 <WhiteRhino> That's just bad. =P 04:20:39 <goodger> WhiteRhino: you must admit, there are definite similarities 04:20:48 <goodger> Eddi|zuHause: makes limited sense ^_^ 04:21:02 <WhiteRhino> Just because the President of the last eight years looks vaguely simian.. >.> 04:21:23 <goodger> ha! "vaguely" indeed... 04:21:37 <Eddi|zuHause> goodger: means if you show 24 at 22:00, you have to cut more scenes than if you show it 23:00 04:21:55 <Eddi|zuHause> and before that, you shouldn't even bother 04:22:18 <goodger> you have to cut scenes even at the 18 rating? :S 04:22:38 <WhiteRhino> You can say "asscrack" and "bitch" on TV, but one radio station I know of will cancel out the word "porno" in a particular song. *shrug* 04:22:48 <Eddi|zuHause> i'm not sure if they "have to", but it is very common 04:22:57 <WhiteRhino> And those words are said at 7pm weekdays. 04:23:17 <Eddi|zuHause> usually scenes of extreme violence... 04:23:18 <joachim> Eddi|zuHause: in germany? 04:23:25 <goodger> the problem with having the 18 rating at 2300 is that, by the time a film ends that starts at 2300 for ratings purposes, it will be 0040, which is too late for most >18-year-olds to go to bed 04:23:41 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, they cut like 10 minutes off each dexter episode... 04:23:54 <Eddi|zuHause> which aired after 23:00 04:24:07 <goodger> WhiteRhino: the BBC has subtly introduced the word "bitch" into EastEnders, which is watched by people aged 8 and up, and is broadcast at 7:30 04:24:21 <goodger> Eddi|zuHause: some scheduling thing, surely? 04:24:24 <Eddi|zuHause> i didn't watch it, because the dubbing is so extremely bad 04:24:35 <goodger> heh 04:24:43 <WhiteRhino> Criminy. 04:24:44 <goodger> dubbing is always extremely bad. 04:24:46 <Eddi|zuHause> not only scheduling 04:24:51 <joachim> goodger: true 04:24:51 <goodger> subtitles FTW 04:24:58 <thingwath> dubbing is sometimes good :) 04:25:05 <goodger> trouble is, subtitles are not accessible to the blind 04:25:16 <joachim> only if you can choose audio channels 04:25:20 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, dubbing is potentially degrading quality, but even then, dexter was at the extreme lower end of the scale 04:25:40 <goodger> so you kind of have to dub it _and_ provide subtitles in order to make it accessible 04:25:45 <Eddi|zuHause> it was done by the second cheapest dubbing company in germany 04:25:50 <goodger> heh 04:25:55 *** roboboy [7248ca68@webchat.mibbit.com] has quit [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client] 04:25:57 <Eddi|zuHause> and dubbing is a big market in germany 04:26:10 <Eddi|zuHause> so it's not like there are only 2 companies 04:26:52 <Eddi|zuHause> shows that are known to have exceptionally good dubs are "House" and "Scrubs" 04:26:54 <goodger> hm 04:27:01 <goodger> :O 04:27:17 <goodger> you're missing out on the legendary voice of hugh laurie! 04:27:27 <joachim> i think the last time there were complaints about norwegian tv were when the public state broadcasting showed porn 04:27:36 <Eddi|zuHause> actually, i have not seen a single episode of house 04:27:43 <joachim> other than that, anything goes :) 04:27:47 <goodger> you know, his american accent is so good that most of the production staff never realised he was English 04:27:57 <goodger> including the director and casting agent 04:28:13 <Eddi|zuHause> there is a law in germany against broadcasting pornography 04:28:18 <goodger> (he uses the accent all the time on the set, to stay in character) 04:28:22 <WhiteRhino> I know I didn't 'til I saw him on something like Conan O'brien. 04:28:23 <goodger> yes, in england too 04:28:32 <Eddi|zuHause> which lead to the invention of the "soft porno" 04:28:32 <goodger> WhiteRhino: you fail 04:29:01 <goodger> WhiteRhino: I suggest you investigate "Blackadder the Third" 04:29:23 <goodger> it involves hugh laurie in his natural habitat: an english accent and a silly costume 04:29:31 <goodger> and it's genius 04:29:37 <Eddi|zuHause> i associate "blackadder" with something mr. bean-ish 04:29:41 <joachim> and then he says his limp is fake 04:29:48 <joachim> and that he's not really a doctor 04:29:53 <joachim> right! 04:30:22 <goodger> Eddi|zuHause: it has the same actor, but with spoken dialogue :P it's very good indeed, very biting satire 04:30:41 <Eddi|zuHause> it aired a long time ago, here... 04:30:43 *** ConditionalZenith [~blah@60-242-48-182.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 04:31:35 <goodger> here also, it was made in the 80s 04:31:41 <goodger> we repeat it every so often ^_^ 04:42:03 *** Splex [~splex@121.165.245.124] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 04:43:40 *** xahodo is now known as xahodo|afk 05:01:59 *** Lakie [~Lakie@91.84.251.149] has quit [Quit: Sleep.] 05:04:08 <WhiteRhino> Hmm. Perhaps I should play some Diablo tonight. 05:08:19 <Eddi|zuHause> whatever "night" is at your place 05:08:46 <WhiteRhino> Well, as it's 12:08am, I suppose it's technically Saturday morning now. 05:09:35 <WhiteRhino> I just have to decide between a standard character with which I could later play online or multiplayer, or a character in the Hellfire addon which I also own. >.> 05:19:35 *** Splex [~splex@121.165.245.9] has joined #openttd 05:26:21 <WhiteRhino> I think Battle.net is down. >.> 05:27:46 <goodger> oh well :P 05:29:24 <WhiteRhino> I could still play via lan. It seems I'm having trouble finding a v1.09 patch for the game that's not a dead link. 05:30:08 <WhiteRhino> If the one at FilePlanet doesn't work then I guess I email Blizzard and ask why all the links on their support page are dead. =P 05:30:35 *** De_Ghosty [~s@69-196-129-95.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 05:30:55 <goodger> WhiteRhino: suggest you try gameshadow 05:33:23 <goodger> I think I need a new CO detector 05:33:36 <goodger> this one is emitting a faint whistling noise and has "made in west germany" written on it 05:34:13 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~Flex@89.246.181.143] has joined #openttd 05:34:26 <Eddi|zuHause> well, probably it is 20 years old then... 05:34:35 <goodger> precisely 05:34:49 <goodger> also, when I plugged it in this afternoon, it tripped the circuit breaker 05:36:11 <goodger> hmm, apparently the sensor elements are meant to last three years 05:37:26 *** Fuco [~dota.keys@fuco.sks1.muni.cz] has quit [Quit: Quit] 05:39:21 <goodger> I am concerned that wikipedia contains advice on how best to commit suicide using carbon monoxide 05:39:49 <goodger> "as carbon monoxide poisoning via car exhaust has become less of a suicide option, there has been an increase in new methods of carbon monoxide poisoning such as burning charcoal or other fossil fuels within a confined space, such as a small room, tent, or car." 05:42:03 <WhiteRhino> That's not advice, that's just information. =P 05:43:10 <goodger> it sounds very much like advice 05:43:11 <goodger> good night 05:43:28 <WhiteRhino> With a busted CO detector, is sleep the best option? >.> 05:43:36 <Eddi|zuHause> it's wikipedia, you can always edit it... 05:43:50 <goodger> Eddi|zuHause: the admins appear to dislike me 05:45:00 <goodger> WhiteRhino: the wood burner on the other side of this wall is not currently running, and I only installed the detector yesterday [after complaining that the new wood-burner might generate CO and I might get poisoned by it _again_] 05:45:27 <WhiteRhino> Ah. Just sayin'. =) 05:45:34 <goodger> I think if the air contained an acutely toxic dose I'd have been knocked out by now 05:45:56 <goodger> but I will buy another detector tomorrow 05:46:11 <goodger> I'm surprised to find that the incidence of fatal CO poisoning is so high 05:46:45 <goodger> anyway, must sleep. night 05:47:20 <WhiteRhino> Nighto. 05:51:14 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~Flex@89.246.181.143] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 06:04:28 *** xahodo|afk [~xahodo@xahodo.demon.nl] has quit [Quit: Goodbye.] 06:10:52 *** Alberth [~hat@a82-95-164-127.adsl.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 06:12:34 *** De_Ghosty [~s@69-196-129-95.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #openttd 06:36:07 *** OtherRhino [White@modem169.tmlp.net] has joined #openttd 06:40:21 *** WhiteRhino [White@modem170.tmlp.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 06:44:19 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~Flex@89.246.181.143] has joined #openttd 06:45:45 *** OtherRhino is now known as WhiteRhino 06:53:18 *** OtherRhino [White@modem169.tmlp.net] has joined #openttd 06:53:19 *** WhiteRhino [White@modem169.tmlp.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:18:01 *** OtherRhino [White@modem169.tmlp.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 07:36:57 *** WhiteRhino [White@modem169.tmlp.net] has joined #openttd 08:36:06 *** WhiteRhino [White@modem169.tmlp.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 08:37:19 *** WhiteRhino [White@modem169.tmlp.net] has joined #openttd 08:40:06 *** Brianetta [~brian@client-82-14-72-109.glfd.adsl.virgin.net] has joined #openttd 08:52:25 *** Brianetta [~brian@client-82-14-72-109.glfd.adsl.virgin.net] has quit [Quit: TschÃŒÃ] 08:59:25 *** world [~world@213.178.53.208] has joined #openttd 09:01:56 *** world is now known as worldemar 09:08:02 *** M4rk [~M4rk@5351EC68.cable.casema.nl] has joined #openttd 09:08:07 *** M4rk is now known as Mark 09:19:29 *** OtherRhino [White@modem170.tmlp.net] has joined #openttd 09:20:00 *** helb [~helb@84.244.90.26] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 09:21:51 *** OtherRhino [White@modem170.tmlp.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:22:20 *** WhiteRhino [White@modem169.tmlp.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 09:22:26 *** WhiteRhino [White@modem171.tmlp.net] has joined #openttd 09:26:24 *** el_en [~lanurmi@dyn-xdsl-83-150-113-243.nebulazone.fi] has joined #openttd 09:38:57 *** helb [~helb@84.244.90.56] has joined #openttd 09:42:51 *** WhiteRhino [White@modem171.tmlp.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 09:47:18 *** Vikthor [~Vikthor@161-18-80-78.strcechy.adsl-llu.static.bluetone.cz] has joined #openttd 09:50:14 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@host205-174-dynamic.60-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #openttd 09:50:34 <Wolf01> hello 09:51:26 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r14952 /trunk/src/ (6 files): -Codechange: unify the "can vehicle go to station" tests 09:52:44 *** worldemar [~world@213.178.53.208] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:55:31 *** worldemar [~world@213.178.53.208] has joined #openttd 09:59:05 *** Ctibor [~ctibor@77.48.228.43] has joined #openttd 10:00:43 <Alberth> good morning 10:02:55 *** Roujin [~chatzilla@mnch-5d861607.pool.einsundeins.de] has joined #openttd 10:07:42 *** worldemar [~world@213.178.53.208] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:09:26 *** worldemar [~world@213.178.53.208] has joined #openttd 10:17:24 <dihedral> morning 10:27:32 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1DB8F.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 10:34:04 <dihedral> http://fun.barnal.de/bilder/11morbidbastid.jpg 10:34:59 *** Quaver [spirit@azrael.silverfang.net] has quit [Server closed connection] 10:35:01 *** Quaver [spirit@azrael.silverfang.net] has joined #openttd 10:41:37 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r14953 /trunk/src/build_vehicle_gui.cpp: -Fix (r14952): the "available aircraft" list caused a crash 10:42:06 <edeca> dihedral: Heh 10:42:13 <edeca> dihedral: Photoshop? :) 10:44:22 *** Wolf01 is now known as Guest928 10:44:22 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@host148-232-dynamic.4-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #openttd 10:46:25 <Roujin> rubidium: GetStationByTile(this->window_number); <-- the window number is a tile? 10:46:58 <Rubidium> yup 10:47:14 <Rubidium> depends on the window what the exact meaning is 10:47:40 <petern> cos using the stationid wouldn't make sense ;) 10:48:00 <Rubidium> petern: yup 10:48:10 <Rubidium> mixing stationids and depotids == trouble 10:48:24 <Eddi|zuHause> not if you want a chance to unify these between transport type 10:48:27 <Rubidium> after all Roujin's talking about the depot window 10:48:46 * Alberth fall-through in switch() is confirmed to work 10:48:53 <Eddi|zuHause> plus, an airport may have multiple hangars 10:49:16 *** Guest928 [~wolf01@host205-174-dynamic.60-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 10:49:18 *** worldemar [~world@213.178.53.208] has quit [Quit: An exit status of zero indicates success, and a nonzero value indicates failure.] 10:49:47 <Eddi|zuHause> that's one of the most useless quitmessages i have ever seen 10:50:35 <Rubidium> better than hydra's impossible to fulfill quit message 10:51:55 <Roujin> if an exit status of zero indicates success and a nonzero value indicates failure, an exit status of "an exit status of zero indicates success, and a nonzero value indicates failure" indicates failure, because "an exit status of zero indicates success, and a nonzero value indicates failure" is nonzero. 10:52:38 <Roujin> thus, worldemar failed. 10:53:17 <Alberth> Roujin: under the assumption that there are no other outcomes than success and failure 10:53:52 <petern> that is what was stated 10:54:00 <Roujin> well, his statement was not only that 0 means success, but also that everything else means failure 10:54:22 <Roujin> there may be other outcomes than success and failure, but they are NOT_REACHED() ;) 10:54:28 *** worldemar [~world@213.178.53.208] has joined #openttd 10:54:30 <Rubidium> but what if it exited without an exit status? 10:54:48 <Rubidium> e.g. power loss 10:56:35 <Eddi|zuHause> reminds me of "the 'finally' clause of a try statement is always exectuted" 10:57:16 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~Flex@89.246.181.143] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 11:01:54 <Alberth> or a non-numeric status 11:09:16 *** Yeggstry [~mind@cpc2-rdng14-0-0-cust631.winn.cable.ntl.com] has joined #openttd 11:17:17 *** TinoM [~Tino@i59F5E553.versanet.de] has joined #openttd 11:18:17 <edeca> Heh, realistic acceleration rocks. Two trains in a straight line, one has +140 extra bags, the other overtakes it 11:18:24 *** Dr_Jekyll [Dr_Jekyll@p57B0E3F4.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 11:20:55 *** FR^2 [frr@oscar.frquadrat.de] has joined #openttd 11:22:24 *** Wolle [Dr_Jekyll@p57B0ED60.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:22:43 <Eddi|zuHause> Alberth: non-numeric is also non-zero 11:24:15 <petern> edeca, what does that have to do with 'realistic' acceleration? 11:27:00 <Alberth> Eddi|zuHause: unfortunately, most languages seem to think so, although not always: http://paste.openttd.org/178605 11:27:56 <Eddi|zuHause> Alberth: because the language definition does not say "if checks for zero-ness" 11:28:29 <Eddi|zuHause> it says "check anything that could vaguely resemble a boolean" 11:28:57 <edeca> petern: I thought realistic acceleration was based on how loaded it was 11:30:04 <dihedral> acceleration does not influence max speed you know :-P 11:30:25 <dihedral> but how fast you can ......... accelerate to it :-P 11:30:39 <edeca> Yes, indeed, both reached full speed in the end 11:32:33 <Eddi|zuHause> what makes you think that "unrealistic" acceleration is not based on how loaded it was? 11:32:38 *** [com]buster [~Eternal@cust-03-55bf402e.adsl.scarlet.nl] has joined #openttd 11:33:10 <edeca> That's a good point, was unrealistic acceleration based on how loaded it was? 11:33:55 *** [alt]buster [~eternal@cust-03-55bf402e.adsl.scarlet.nl] has joined #openttd 11:34:34 *** [com]buster [~Eternal@cust-03-55bf402e.adsl.scarlet.nl] has quit [] 11:34:54 *** [alt]buster is now known as [com]buster 11:36:34 <petern> ... 11:36:52 <TrueBrain> grrr ..... my email client hangs AGAIN :( 11:36:58 <TrueBrain> always on one account .. 11:37:02 <petern> yes 11:37:15 <petern> simply power/weight for original acceleration 11:37:28 <petern> therefore, a vehicle with less in it will accelerate faster 11:37:42 <petern> (or rather, have a higher acceleration ;)) 11:38:53 <edeca> Ah, I didn't know that :) 11:40:09 <edeca> What does realistic acceleration get based on then? Friction between the pixels? ;) 11:41:03 <petern> velocity, friction, air drag 11:41:29 <edeca> Hm, that's pretty complicated! 11:42:26 <Eddi|zuHause> it's actually rather simple 11:42:49 <edeca> Cool, "special features: tilt" 11:43:24 <Eddi|zuHause> tilting gives higher speed in curves 11:43:34 <Eddi|zuHause> or at least it is supposed to 11:43:47 <Eddi|zuHause> some vehicle sets also make tilting visible 11:44:31 <edeca> I'm using pikkabirds set at the moment 11:44:51 <edeca> But the Eurostar train has 3 times the power and a higher top speed, so I probably wont bother with pendolinos 11:47:47 *** Splex_ [~splex@121.165.245.9] has joined #openttd 11:47:57 *** Splex_ [~splex@121.165.245.9] has quit [] 11:50:45 *** OwenS [~OwenS@host86-128-252-186.range86-128.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 11:50:53 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~Flex@89.246.181.143] has joined #openttd 11:50:57 <edeca> Is there any rason a "close airport" style patch hasn't been introduced? 11:52:36 <Eddi|zuHause> yes. 11:52:51 <edeca> s/rason/reason :) 11:53:05 <edeca> Eddi|zuHause: Nobody has written a good one? It's not a feature for trunk? 11:54:25 *** Zorn [zorn@e177233208.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:57:19 *** Zorn [zorn@e177234051.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #openttd 12:13:40 *** Yexo [~Yexo@32-88-ftth.onsneteindhoven.nl] has quit [Quit: Ik ga weg] 12:15:44 *** Roujin [~chatzilla@mnch-5d861607.pool.einsundeins.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 12:30:49 *** Yeggstry [~mind@cpc2-rdng14-0-0-cust631.winn.cable.ntl.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 12:32:30 *** Tim [~Tim@p5B37D92E.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 12:33:20 <Tim> Good Morning :) 12:33:48 <Tim> In the windows-console, cmd, how can i terminate a process? 12:34:30 <Tim> specifically an endless loop :D 12:35:18 <Rubidium> shutdown -s -t 1 ? 12:35:40 <Tim> nevermind, found it ;) 12:35:43 <Tim> strg + c 12:35:58 <Tim> a process in the console itself ;) 12:39:17 <Rubidium> shutdown -s -t 1 doesn't terminate *a* process? 12:39:34 <Rubidium> and lots of people probably don't know what strg means 12:39:54 <Tim> sorry, ctrl + c ;) 12:40:11 <Tim> And i can't enter shutdown... If it is counting towards infinity :D 12:40:17 <Tim> the console 12:41:11 <Tim> Hm, i am confused... In C++, if i have: int x = 5; for (; x ; x--) { cout << x << endl;}, i do understand that for each loop x decreases by one, but why does it stop if it is zero? The condition for terminating the loop is just "x", right? 12:41:55 <Rubidium> the last thing printed will be 1 12:42:02 <Tim> yes 12:42:07 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~Flex@89.246.181.143] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 12:42:17 <Tim> i would expect the conditio nto be x = 0 12:42:21 <Tim> but just x? 12:42:56 *** Zahl [~Zahl@g228021233.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #openttd 12:44:11 *** Steve-N [~steven@84-245-22-198.dsl.cambrium.nl] has joined #openttd 12:44:30 <Rubidium> x is also an expression 12:45:21 <Tim> hm........... 12:45:55 <Rubidium> even x = 1 is an expression, which might give nice results in loops ;) 12:48:02 <Rubidium> for (int x = 5; "loop till you drop"; x--) .... is a nice infinite loop 12:48:15 <Rubidium> unless you use break/return in the loop body ofcourse 12:50:24 <Tim> Yes, i had an almost similar loop already :D 12:50:32 <Tim> That was the one i wanted to stop... 12:56:18 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-590fc4df.pool.einsundeins.de] has joined #openttd 13:00:24 *** Swallow [~chatzilla@5355F5FD.cable.casema.nl] has joined #openttd 13:00:55 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r14954 /trunk/src/ (lang/english.txt order_cmd.cpp): -Fix [FS#1890]: sharing/cloning/inserting of orders that the/a vehicle (in the shared list) can't go to (wrong station type etc) 13:01:30 * frosch123 prefers commit messages like "fix property xx of feature yy" :/ 13:01:49 <Rubidium> petern: can you now remember what you couldn't remember in FS#1832? 13:02:30 <frosch123> he already remembered, that there are only 256 parts per station 13:02:53 <frosch123> though as TTDP supports 16x bigger stations than OTTD does.... 13:03:19 <Rubidium> TTDP supports 256x256? 13:03:30 <frosch123> yes :) as big as the map 13:03:34 <Rubidium> that's like... more than the map 13:04:18 *** tokai [~tokai@p54B803C0.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 13:04:52 <frosch123> though maybe when you can only build 14x14 parts at once, you cannot reach 256x256 13:07:51 *** stillunknown [~stillunkn@82-136-228-38.ip.telfort.nl] has joined #openttd 13:12:53 <TrueBrain> so ... anyone a nice story to tell? 13:14:56 <Rubidium> @tell >TrueBrain story 13:14:56 <DorpsGek> Rubidium: Error: I haven't seen >TrueBrain, I'll let you do the telling. 13:15:05 <Rubidium> @tell TrueBrain story 13:15:29 <TrueBrain> grr @ Rubidium 13:17:01 *** tom0004 [~Tom@92.4.96.177] has joined #openttd 13:25:34 *** glx [glx@bny93-6-82-245-156-124.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #openttd 13:25:37 *** mode/#openttd [+v glx] by ChanServ 13:27:14 *** Mortal [~mortal@0x573a3da2.odnqu1.static.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #openttd 13:30:59 *** Gekz [~brendan@123-243-206-102.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #openttd 13:33:52 <George> frosch123: About yesterdays question of glx. Would it be possible to provide some flag for articulated vehicle, that would prevent their splitting on turnung? 13:34:05 *** Osai^zZz is now known as osai 13:34:08 *** osai is now known as Osai 13:34:29 <glx> I never asked that 13:34:40 <George> and who it was? 13:34:42 <frosch123> and it is not possible 13:38:04 *** Roujin [~chatzilla@mnch-5d861607.pool.einsundeins.de] has joined #openttd 13:40:56 *** xahodo|afk [~xahodo@xahodo.demon.nl] has joined #openttd 13:41:01 *** tom0004 [~Tom@92.4.96.177] has quit [Quit: http://www.chogie.eu] 13:41:34 <George> Sorry, it was Eddi|zuHause. [01:34:21] <Eddi|zuHause> what i said previously: i believe, what is needed, is a flag/callback/whatever for certain articulated vehicles to specify "no bend", and the drawing code handling them, as drawing them relative to the position of the of the previous vehicle, not on the position of the current vehicle 13:43:29 <George> frosch123: Would there be diagonal roads someday in OTTD? 13:43:48 <frosch123> unlikely 13:45:08 <George> Good, Then I'l make curvature code based on 2 parts, not 3 parts 13:54:08 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~Flex@89.246.181.143] has joined #openttd 13:55:40 *** Dred_furst [~Dred_furs@resnet555.bournemouth.ac.uk] has joined #openttd 13:59:04 <Wolf01> anybody who wants to help me on sloped stations? 13:59:50 <frosch123> he, did you modify GetFoundation_Station in the mean time? 14:00:04 *** snorre_ [~snorre@cF6FC00C3.dhcp.bluecom.no] has joined #openttd 14:00:12 <Wolf01> I tried, but with no effects 14:00:48 <frosch123> no effects? I would expect the vehicles to follow the slope 14:01:09 <frosch123> ah, there is also GetSlopeZ_Station 14:01:28 *** snorre [~snorre@cF6FC00C3.dhcp.bluecom.no] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:01:30 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r14955 /trunk/src/station_cmd.cpp: -Fix: newgrf station specs didn't get deallocated when building a new station part over them. 14:02:13 <frosch123> well copy the needed stuff from GetSlopeZ_Track and GetFoundation_Track 14:02:30 * Wolf01 waits some ages until VS80 is ready 14:04:40 <Wolf01> it's still not ready 14:05:29 <Wolf01> ok, now it seem to be ready 14:05:35 <Wolf01> 3 minutes! 14:08:06 <Wolf01> ok, compiling... let me see if it does work 14:13:17 <Wolf01> good it crashes on start 14:20:50 *** KritiK [~Maxim@78-106-227-2.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #openttd 14:20:50 *** Terkhen [~Terkhen@131.69.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #openttd 14:24:30 *** Roujin [~chatzilla@mnch-5d861607.pool.einsundeins.de] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.84 [Firefox 3.0.5/2008120122]] 14:25:20 *** dvo [~asd@0x3e42e6e6.adsl.cybercity.dk] has joined #openttd 14:26:13 *** eQualizer [~lauri@dyn12-192.dsl.spy.dnainternet.fi] has quit [Server closed connection] 14:26:29 *** eQualizer [~lauri@dyn12-192.dsl.spy.dnainternet.fi] has joined #openttd 14:30:15 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r14956 /trunk/src/ (lang/english.txt newgrf_station.cpp station_cmd.cpp): 14:30:15 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Fix [FS#1832]: building new station parts didn't allocate a new station spec 14:30:15 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: effectively breaking variable 41. This was due to the limited number of station 14:30:15 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: specs that we can have per station. This fix makes newly build station parts 14:30:15 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: create a new spec until one cannot allocate new station specs anymore and it'll 14:30:17 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: revert to the old behaviour (sharing station specs). 14:39:10 <Tim> How about setting realistic acceleration and forbid 90° turns as standard options? 14:39:32 <Alberth> Tim: forbid 90 degrees turn breaks the ai 14:39:55 <petern> i! am! here! 14:39:57 <Tim> hm, okay 14:40:04 <FauxFaux> Clearly replace the AI! 14:40:36 <SmatZ> hello petern 14:40:45 <Alberth> FauxFaux: what do you think is the NoAI branch for? 14:41:06 <petern> Rubidium, i also had a patch that stored the build date for each part individually, but apparently it wasn't want 14:41:09 <petern> +ed 14:41:47 <SmatZ> petern: did you store the date in the map array? 14:41:51 <petern> no 14:41:56 <petern> don't be silly :) 14:41:59 <SmatZ> :-) 14:42:43 <edeca> hello! petern! 14:43:13 <Alberth> SmatZ: we should use a VCS to save map changes :P 14:43:57 <SmatZ> Alberth: do you want a rollback? :-) 14:44:59 <Alberth> yeah, and branching for what-if tests :) 14:45:21 *** xahodo|afk is now known as xahodo 14:47:05 <Tim> http://vcs.openttd.org/svn/browser/trunk/src/settings.cpp#L1265 --> Would it only need changing false to true to have Realistic Acceleration as standard if not written else in the openttd.cfg? :) 14:48:02 <petern> yes 14:48:11 <petern> why does it need changing? 14:48:34 <Tim> dunno, it's just a hell lot better with it enabled... 14:49:21 <Tim> And people new to the game might not change it and then wonder what kind of trains we have that can't climb a slope but go around 2*45° corners without losing speed :) 14:49:55 * SmatZ agrees with Tim 14:50:06 <Tim> They can still change it back, i just think it would make a better default setting... 14:50:09 <Tim> :) 14:50:18 <petern> i'm fairly sure that trains do lose speed around bends... 14:50:42 * SmatZ agrees with petern 14:51:42 <SmatZ> ==> Tim isn't perfectly right in his statements (trains lose speed at each direction change - even in cases where new acc code doesn't cause slowdown), but I like the idea of setting it "true" by default 14:53:02 <Tim> True, i just had a look and they do loose speed, but still they go around very small bends quite fast... And what is really annoying is the slooooow climbing of slopes :) 14:55:31 <Tim> Afk, eating cake :) 15:21:19 *** energetic [~opera@ip82-139-119-221.lijbrandt.net] has joined #openttd 15:28:11 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: frosch * r14957 /trunk/src/train_cmd.cpp: -Fix [FS#2516]: Do not abort train movement, when we are just about to reach the end of the platform. 15:30:32 *** dvo [~asd@0x3e42e6e6.adsl.cybercity.dk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:49:07 *** dvo [~asd@0x3e42e6e6.adsl.cybercity.dk] has joined #openttd 15:52:10 *** ecke [~ecke@xbl.dnsbl.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 15:54:20 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: smatz * r14958 /trunk/src/ (7 files): 15:54:20 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Codechange [FS#1923]: when checking for unique names, compare only with manually set names 15:54:20 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: There are situations that aren't solvable (because of different language files), 15:54:20 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: so if the user really wants to have duplicated name, allow him to do so. It 15:54:20 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: solves desyncs between server and clients using different languages. It behaves 15:54:21 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: the same in SP and MP, so users won't see the different behaviour as a bug (and 15:54:23 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: even checking in SP could be worked around by the user). 15:55:34 *** Swallow [~chatzilla@5355F5FD.cable.casema.nl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:56:00 *** Swallow [~chatzilla@5355F5FD.cable.casema.nl] has joined #openttd 16:02:39 <dihedral> :-) 16:02:57 <TrueBrain> :'( 16:03:05 <petern> [-: 16:03:33 <SmatZ> >:o) 16:04:01 <dihedral> SmatZ: that looks like a nice commit :-) 16:04:10 * dihedral hugs TrueBrain 16:04:12 <dihedral> there there 16:05:19 <SmatZ> dihedral: not very nice, but the only consistent solution :-/ 16:05:34 <dihedral> a solution _is_ nice 16:05:39 <SmatZ> :-( 16:05:41 <SmatZ> :-) 16:05:44 <SmatZ> oops 16:05:46 <dihedral> lol 16:05:55 <dihedral> phew - i was about to give you a hug too :-D 16:06:06 * dihedral chuckles 16:06:38 <SmatZ> :-) 16:06:40 <TrueBrain> gay 16:06:42 <SmatZ> why didn't you? 16:07:13 <Aali> frosch123: your fix for FS#2516 seems to have had an unwanted side-effect 16:08:21 <dihedral> because i thought of TrueBrain - he does not feel comfortable with "man hugs" 16:09:07 <frosch123> yay 16:09:13 <Rubidium> dihedral should really read the manual entry for hugs 16:09:15 <frosch123> Aali: what did I broke? 16:09:17 <Aali> frosch123: trains now fit in the station just fine, but on the way out they "jump" forward and become lost (I get the warning message) 16:09:33 <dihedral> Rubidium: :-P 16:09:41 <Aali> smaller trains dont become lost but still do the jump 16:10:53 <frosch123> this "jump" is weird 16:12:51 <Aali> you can see it clearly by reversing a train while it is loading 16:13:05 <Aali> when you reverse it, it doesn't fit in the station anymore 16:13:44 <frosch123> yeah, the funny thing is, trains never drove to the end of the platform (since r1, so like since TTD), just that it did not matter, when the last wagon was long enough 16:14:40 <TrueBrain> Rubidium: is there already a 'ltstr' (for std::map) on a global level? 16:14:41 <SmatZ> true 16:15:03 <SmatZ> FS#2516 should be invalid then, there should always be a space before the train 16:15:12 <SmatZ> when in station 16:15:20 <SmatZ> but not when in front of a signal... 16:15:44 <SmatZ> people need to know how long the train will be when waiting for green 16:15:50 <SmatZ> and also how long the station should be 16:16:03 <SmatZ> but 16:16:06 <Rubidium> TrueBrain: no idea 16:16:25 <Rubidium> not in OpenTTD itself AFAIK 16:16:27 <TrueBrain> Rubidium: mind if I add one in stdafx.h or so? 16:16:32 <SmatZ> when waiting for green signal, the train is usually few ticks before the tile end, right, frosch123? 16:16:32 <TrueBrain> I keep on defining it now in several files :) 16:16:39 <TrueBrain> struct ltstr { bool operator()(const char *s1, const char *s2) const { return strcmp(s1, s2) < 0; } }; 16:16:45 <TrueBrain> I have 3 of those in different .hpp files now 16:16:49 <SmatZ> no no blah 16:16:51 * SmatZ hides 16:16:53 <TrueBrain> multiple defines to avoid silly include-trees 16:17:11 <frosch123> SmatZ: it just suppressed the reversing 16:17:36 <Rubidium> TrueBrain: do you really need std::map, or is SmallMap enough too? 16:18:10 <TrueBrain> typedef std::map<const char *, int, ltstr> SettingValueList; 16:18:11 <TrueBrain> you tell me 16:18:46 <Rubidium> looks like it, as long as you don't depend on a sorted key list 16:19:29 <TrueBrain> if (key == this->data[i].first) return this->data[i].second; <- doesn't really work for strings ;) 16:19:37 <TrueBrain> so no, SmallMap is not enough 16:20:46 <Rubidium> hmm... true 16:21:05 <TrueBrain> you can introduce a SmallStringMap 16:21:12 <TrueBrain> but I don't see how that would be better than std::map 16:21:47 <SmatZ> TrueBrain: smaller code and compile time 16:22:06 <TrueBrain> ah :) 16:22:14 <TrueBrain> so make me a SmallStringMap, and I will be more than happy to use it :) 16:22:21 <TrueBrain> just runtime would be slower 16:22:26 <TrueBrain> (lineair search instead of optimized search) 16:22:39 <SmatZ> TrueBrain: depends how big the set is :) 16:23:13 <TrueBrain> if n > 2, that already holds 16:23:32 <SmatZ> but if you used std::string (.....), (key == this->data[i].first) would work for strings ;) 16:23:44 <SmatZ> are you sure std::map has special versions for const char *? 16:23:56 <TrueBrain> I dislike using std::string :) 16:23:59 <TrueBrain> for many many reasons :) 16:24:02 * dihedral is gonna make lots 'n lots of food....... 16:24:04 <SmatZ> so do I ;-) 16:24:07 <dihedral> all mine! 16:24:17 <TrueBrain> it doesn't need special version, as you give the sorter function 16:24:27 <SmatZ> true true :) 16:24:50 <SmatZ> not function, but a class 16:24:54 <SmatZ> which is weird :) 16:25:04 <TrueBrain> the () operator of the class 16:25:04 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r14959 /trunk/src/ (lang/english.txt settings.cpp): -Fix [FS#2508]: wrong defaults for service interval when switching between service interval in days and service interval in percentages. 16:25:12 <TrueBrain> which tells you how it is implemented :) 16:25:16 *** lewymati [~lewymati@aeiy82.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #openttd 16:26:29 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r14960 /trunk/src/settings_gui.cpp: -Codechange: add some this where appropriate (Alberth) 16:28:09 *** Guest800 [~Yexo@32-88-ftth.onsneteindhoven.nl] has quit [Quit: Ik ga weg] 16:29:46 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r14961 /trunk/src/ (42 files in 3 dirs): -Update: remove the string from r14960 from the other languages too. 16:30:37 <TrueBrain> but any alternative is welcome, else I would like to put the ltstr at some more global spot 16:30:56 <TrueBrain> core/stdmap.hpp ;) 16:31:04 <TrueBrain> core/stdstringmap.hpp :p 16:31:05 <TrueBrain> haha 16:31:12 <Alberth> Rubidium: which string? 16:31:29 <Rubidium> the warning ;) 16:31:41 <SmatZ> TrueBrain: core/smallstring.hpp ;-) 16:31:52 <Rubidium> oh... /me is messing up ;) 16:32:06 <TrueBrain> that requires me implementing a SmallStringMap ;) 16:32:12 <Rubidium> ah well... the number's close enough 16:32:35 <Alberth> no svn rollback :) 16:33:46 *** Fuco [~dota.keys@fuco.sks1.muni.cz] has joined #openttd 16:34:11 *** Zahl [~Zahl@g228021233.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:34:11 *** Zahl_ [~Zahl@g228007011.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #openttd 16:38:19 <Swallow> Out of curiosity: why is MAX_SPECLIST an enum instead of a static const? (newgrf_station.cpp) 16:39:30 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r14962 /trunk/src/settings_gui.cpp: -Codechange: add the concept of patch entries and patch (sub) pages 16:40:17 <TrueBrain> enums are so much better :) 16:40:26 <TrueBrain> that question can be generalized I guess :) 16:41:34 <Rubidium> maybe because there's no concept of static const in C? 16:42:41 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r14963 /trunk/src/settings_gui.cpp: -Codechange: remember what entry was clicked instead of the index (Alberth) 16:42:59 <frosch123> hmm, that "jump" is normal behaviour when reversing at line end, so not introduced by r14957 16:45:04 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r14964 /trunk/src/settings_gui.cpp: -Codechange: hide the length of a patch page behind a function (Alberth) 16:46:24 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r14965 /trunk/src/settings_gui.cpp: -Codechange: remember the patch entry instead of the page and index of the entry for handling the "input box" (Alberth) 16:47:49 <SmatZ> hmm isn't there a command switch for 'find' to stop after the first match? :-x 16:48:43 <Rubidium> |head -n 1? 16:49:41 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r14966 /trunk/src/settings_gui.cpp: -Codechange: simplify and generalise finding patch entries (Alberth) 16:51:20 <SmatZ> Rubidium: yeah, but it still takes the time until it scans whole filesystem :-/ 16:51:39 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r14967 /trunk/src/settings_gui.cpp: -Codechange: split the drawing of the window into several smaller functions (Alberth) 16:52:10 <Rubidium> -quit? 16:52:38 <SmatZ> Rubidium: that's it, thanks! 16:53:31 *** De_Ghosty [~s@69-196-129-95.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:56:57 *** De_Ghosty [~s@69-196-143-228.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #openttd 16:59:32 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1DB8F.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:10:04 *** mortal` [~mortal@0x573a3da2.odnqu1.static.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #openttd 17:12:35 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r14968 /extra/ottd_grf/split/ (openttdgui.nfo openttdgui.pcx): [OTTD_GUI] -Add: + and - in circle sprites (Alberth) 17:13:53 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r14969 /trunk/ (7 files in 3 dirs): -Codechange: make drawing trees possible (Alberth) 17:15:04 *** Mortal [~mortal@0x573a3da2.odnqu1.static.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:15:11 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r14970 /trunk/src/settings_gui.cpp: -Change: move all (patch) settings to a single "page" (Alberth) 17:23:43 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r14971 /trunk/src/lang/english.txt: -Change: the colour of the patch page text so it becomes more visible as it changed background (Alberth) 17:24:45 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r14972 /trunk/src/lang/ (42 files in 2 dirs): -Update: do r14971 also for the non-English strings (Alberth) 17:26:23 <Wolf01> seem that Rubidium is busy on applying a great patch 17:27:04 <frosch123> revolutionising the gui :) 17:27:22 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r14973 /trunk/src/settings_gui.cpp: -Codechange: recursively fold subpages (Alberth) 17:28:20 <Wolf01> frosch123, I tried playing around with the GetFoundations_Station function, but also if I tell it to return FOUNDATION_NONE doesn't change anything o_O 17:29:00 <frosch123> then you should also take a look at DrawTile_Station 17:29:00 *** Mortal [~mortal@0x573a3da2.odnqu1.static.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #openttd 17:29:09 <frosch123> esp. where DrawFoundation is called 17:29:16 <frosch123> maybe also in newgrf_stations 17:29:48 <frosch123> and keep watching for the walls on the backside of south-neighboured tiles 17:30:09 <Wolf01> I don't think is only a drawing issue, but also the train still fall down from the step between the 2 station tiles 17:30:31 <frosch123> that should be GetSlopeZ_Station 17:30:53 <Rubidium> and prolly CanEnterTile or whatever it's called 17:32:46 *** Dr_Jekyll [Dr_Jekyll@p57B0E3F4.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: http://www.lagerwiki.de - das Wiki rund um's Thema Lager und Logistik] 17:33:06 *** HerzogDeXtEr1 [~Flex@89.246.187.25] has joined #openttd 17:34:13 *** mortal`` [~mortal@0x573a3da2.odnqu1.static.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #openttd 17:34:34 *** mortal` [~mortal@0x573a3da2.odnqu1.static.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:35:36 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r14974 /trunk/src/ (lang/english.txt settings_gui.cpp): -Change: reorder/reorganise the entries of the settings window (Alberth) 17:35:58 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1DB8F.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 17:36:27 *** mortal`` [~mortal@0x573a3da2.odnqu1.static.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [] 17:38:54 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~Flex@89.246.181.143] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:39:54 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: frosch * r14975 /trunk/src/train_cmd.cpp: -Fix (r14957): Do not immediatelly move the train when leaving the station and the destination is not yet known. 17:40:24 <frosch123> Aali: today is the day of experimental commits, so try to break it again :p 17:40:41 <Aali> never thought you'd ask :P 17:40:54 *** Mortal [~mortal@0x573a3da2.odnqu1.static.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:44:08 <Tim> Cool, a new order for all the settings *thumbsup* 17:44:26 *** Swallow [~chatzilla@5355F5FD.cable.casema.nl] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.84 [Firefox 3.0.5/2008120122]] 17:52:22 <Tim> Is it like this one? As you said it is from alberth :) http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=727290#p727290 17:53:37 <petern> think i preferred the tabs :p 17:54:20 <Tim> That is to be in Tabs, which are called according to the headlines (that was the suggestion) 17:55:00 <Tim> Under WinXP, do i need anything else than TortoiseSVN to get the source (and maybe apply patches) and MinGW to compile the game myself? 17:56:30 <energetic> maybe buildootd or any other ide supprting c++ 17:56:37 <energetic> *buildottd* 17:56:58 <energetic> openttd-usefull can be usefull to. 17:57:01 <Alberth> Tim: not exactly, that file included difficulty & options too. 17:58:14 <Tim> So only the advanced-setting-tab-layout was changed to a single-page-layout? 17:58:49 <Tim> Ah right, BuildOTTD, forgot about that :) 17:58:58 <Tim> But can you do it with MinGW too? 17:59:05 <Tim> Since i have that installed anyway... 17:59:25 <Alberth> yep, with a tree-view for the settings 17:59:26 <Rubidium> mingw can compile ottd 18:00:41 <Rubidium> it needs some libaries though 18:00:41 *** ecke [~ecke@xbl.dnsbl.oftc.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:01:41 <Tim> ah, just found it here http://wiki.openttd.org/wiki/index.php/Compiling_on_MinGW 18:03:44 <Wolf01> OH! Finally a difference! the train is below the station and the station is over the foundations 18:05:17 <Aali> this new settings gui will take a while to get used to.. 18:05:40 <Aali> I think we'll be better off though, the old interface gets very messy with so many options on the same page 18:07:50 <Wolf01> AHA!!!! it works it works!!!!! 18:08:04 <Wolf01> now I need only a sloped station graphic 18:09:25 <Wolf01> thank you frosch123 for pointing me in the right direction :D 18:10:35 <Wolf01> http://wolf01.game-host.org/OTTD_related/sloped_station.PNG 18:10:56 <Aali> frosch123: oops, even short trains get lost now 18:11:19 <frosch123> really? 18:11:24 *** Bennythen00b [~Bennythen@40.81-166-86.customer.lyse.net] has joined #openttd 18:11:24 <Aali> yeah 18:11:36 <Aali> no improvement at all :/ 18:12:00 <frosch123> what means "short train" 18:12:18 <Aali> doesn't cover the entire platform 18:13:21 <frosch123> works for me :/ 18:13:33 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: glx * r14976 /branches/noai/src/ai/ (7 files in 2 dirs): 18:13:33 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: [NoAI] -Codechange: move more code from AIController to AIInstance 18:13:33 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: [NoAI] -Codechange: redirect 2 more functions to their right layer 18:13:34 <Aali> using PBS? 18:14:13 <frosch123> drive-through- or terminal-station? 18:14:36 <Aali> ah, it works without PBS 18:14:36 <frosch123> oh yes, now I see 18:14:45 <Aali> terminus stations 18:14:54 <frosch123> without pbs it works, yes :/ 18:15:17 <SmatZ> Wolf01: nice :) 18:15:26 <Aali> with PBS everyone gets lost 18:15:49 <frosch123> so, what is better? current behaviour, or before r14957 ? 18:17:52 <petern> behaviour that works :D 18:18:01 <Aali> without r14957 these trains will block the tile before the station, which is clearly wrong 18:18:31 <Aali> but they shouldn't get lost just because they're leaving a station either :) 18:18:55 <frosch123> well, the problem is the train starts driving before it has found a path or whatever 18:20:05 *** NukeBuster [~NukeBuste@xbl.dnsbl.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 18:20:06 <Aali> ideally, I would also like to see the reversing problem fixed, but that's not nearly as important 18:20:41 <Aali> if you can make the trains not lose themselves that would be fine :P 18:22:28 *** Tim [~Tim@p5B37D92E.dip.t-dialin.net] has left #openttd [] 18:31:11 *** Digitalfox [~Digitalof@bl9-82-198.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #openttd 18:34:12 *** NukeBuster [~NukeBuste@xbl.dnsbl.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: http://www.interplay.com/] 18:38:42 *** Zuu [~Zuu@c-84f0e655.510-8-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #openttd 18:40:06 <Zuu> Probably already mentioned, but i find it funny someone want to download MS Paint. (Graphics Forum) 18:40:27 <goodger> heh 18:40:46 <goodger> that app remained unchanged for...oh... 18:40:56 <goodger> 12 years 18:41:08 *** Bennythen00b [~Bennythen@40.81-166-86.customer.lyse.net] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.84 [Firefox 3.0.5/2008120122]] 18:41:29 *** worldemar [~world@213.178.53.208] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:41:44 <Zuu> And many students insist on argumenting of how nice the program is, while I'm pretty alone using a vector program to draw my figures for my technical reports. :s 18:42:06 <goodger> heh 18:42:24 <goodger> yeah, it's pretty horrendous 18:43:21 <Zuu> Okay for cropping screenshots and copy-paste to word but not for making illustrations from scratch. 18:43:56 <goodger> well, people do use it to create illustrations from scratch 18:44:22 <goodger> but only in the same way that people race double-decker buses round racing circuits 18:44:23 <blathijs> goodger: I heard the office team has been working on Paint and it will get a "ribbon" in Windows 7 18:44:45 <goodger> blathijs: it doesn't need a ribbon, it has only three features 18:44:47 *** Lakie [~Lakie@91.84.251.149] has joined #openttd 18:44:53 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: translators * r14977 /trunk/src/lang/ (15 files): (log message trimmed) 18:44:53 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Update: WebTranslator2 update to 2009-01-10 18:44:17 18:44:53 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: arabic_egypt - 4 fixed by khaloofah (4) 18:44:53 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: brazilian_portuguese - 26 fixed by tucalipe (26) 18:44:53 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: bulgarian - 3 fixed by Ar4i (3) 18:44:55 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: catalan - 3 fixed by arnaullv (3) 18:44:55 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: croatian - 35 fixed by tifached (35) 18:45:17 <blathijs> goodger: Perhaps it'll be a small ribbon then :-p 18:45:26 <Sacro> blathijs: it already has it 18:45:39 <blathijs> it has? 18:45:43 <Sacro> got it in build 6780 18:45:58 <blathijs> Isn't build 6780 of Windows 7? 18:46:06 <Sacro> yeah 18:46:15 <blathijs> Ah, yeah that's what I meant 18:46:27 *** Mortal [~mortal@0x573a3da2.odnqu1.static.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #openttd 18:46:37 <Sacro> http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/0/04/Win7paint.png 18:46:44 <goodger> http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/0/04/Win7paint.png 18:46:48 <mrfrenzy> argh! 18:46:49 <Sacro> goodger: jynx 18:46:50 <goodger> ¬.¬ 18:47:04 <goodger> two tabs kind of ruins the idea of the ribbon IMO 18:48:03 <Zuu> Yea, maybe it has some hided tabs you can enable in settings like the Development tab for Word. 18:48:19 <goodger> possibly 18:49:06 <Sacro> http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/e/e3/Win7wordpad.png 18:49:20 <goodger> the trouble with the ribbon is that it's a good idea with a horrific implementation 18:49:22 <Zuu> Would be interesting if they equipped Paint with VBA macros :p 18:49:59 *** xahodo [~xahodo@xahodo.demon.nl] has quit [Quit: Goodbye.] 18:51:01 <glx> easier to draw fractals ;) 18:51:16 <goodger> would be interesting if they equipped paint with image-editing tools 18:51:47 <glx> does it have real png support now? 18:51:54 <goodger> god knows 18:54:05 <Zuu> Yesterday I had a look on batch/cmd scripting for renaming a bunch of files from a video camera so a directory prefix get added to the file names. Actually I was impressed by the documentation they had for the FOR command. Took me only 2 hours to write the script, with limited knowledge of batch/cmd scripting. 18:55:28 <glx> using powershell or standard cmd ? 18:55:38 <Zuu> standard cmd 18:55:50 <Steve-N> would have taken like 2 seconds with a proper sh 18:56:13 <Steve-N> (ok 2 minutes with the proper man pages with it) 18:56:27 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~Flex@89.246.204.219] has joined #openttd 18:56:45 <Prof_Frink> Steve-N: ABS, not man pages. 18:59:26 *** energetic [~opera@ip82-139-119-221.lijbrandt.net] has left #openttd [] 18:59:45 <Zuu> If you know perl good enough just rename is sufficent in Linux. 19:00:34 <Steve-N> right, anything but a dos script will do 19:01:24 *** HerzogDeXtEr1 [~Flex@89.246.187.25] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:04:32 <Zuu> Sure, but have you actually taken a look on it. I grew up with Mac OS (6-7-8 or so) and have mostly only heard people bashing the batch script format. But after spent some time on it it proved to be far better than I've heard about it. Sure different from sh/bash/zsh/etc. but not impossible to get things done either. 19:07:01 <Steve-N> sure, made quite some $@%%@$ batch scripts on machines on which nothing else was possible/allowed. it totally sucks. still is full of bugs and every new dos version introduces a new incompatibility with previous versions. 19:09:07 *** sigmund_ [~sigmund@91.80-202-245.nextgentel.com] has joined #openttd 19:10:55 *** sigmund [~sigmund@91.80-202-245.nextgentel.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:18:23 *** mortal` [~mortal@0x573a3da2.odnqu1.static.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #openttd 19:18:40 *** Mortal is now known as Guest979 19:18:40 *** mortal` is now known as mortal 19:19:52 *** Zuu [~Zuu@c-84f0e655.510-8-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:22:17 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r14978 /trunk/src/settings_gui.cpp: -Codechange: simplify the control flow of the OnClick of the settings window 19:23:06 *** worldemar [~world@85.114.161.90] has joined #openttd 19:23:14 <Wolf01> no nightly this evening? 19:24:05 <petern> probably still compiling 19:24:42 <Rubidium> it takes roughly half an hour to compile all targets 19:25:19 *** Guest979 [~mortal@0x573a3da2.odnqu1.static.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:30:22 *** tom0004 [~Tom@92.4.96.177] has joined #openttd 19:30:52 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: peter1138 * r14979 /trunk/src/ (lang/english.txt newgrf.cpp): -Fix: Disable a NewGRF from loading if it contains multiple Action 8s 19:31:18 <petern> Wolf01: it's there now 19:31:31 <Wolf01> good 19:48:24 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r14980 /trunk/src/settings_gui.cpp: -Change: shuffle around some more settings to make them more logically grouped/ordered 19:48:43 *** ecke [~ecke@213.195.202.130] has joined #openttd 20:03:40 *** Alberth [~hat@a82-95-164-127.adsl.xs4all.nl] has left #openttd [] 20:16:37 *** Zuu [~Zuu@c-84f0e655.510-8-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #openttd 20:17:52 <Wolf01> argh! refitting a train cost more than its year income 20:20:21 *** Digitalfox [~Digitalof@bl9-82-198.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:23:39 <Wolf01> does anybody want to try my latest wonderful patch? http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=32&t=26105 20:24:54 <Wolf01> (and I think that topic should fit more in the development forum) 20:28:28 *** Moodles [Tallarines@60-242-71-35.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:28:37 *** Moodles [Tallarines@60-242-71-35.tpgi.com.au] has joined #openttd 20:29:40 <Zuu> Sloped stations that's something new :) 20:30:12 <petern> diagonal stations was cooler :p 20:33:05 <Wolf01> maybe next time 20:33:16 <Zuu> That I must have missed, don't remember seeing a diagonal station patch. 20:34:10 <petern> it was a few years ago :) 20:38:18 <petern> err, what 20:38:24 *** Nite_Owl [~Nite_Owl@c-65-34-177-131.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has joined #openttd 20:38:33 <petern> *** petern has joined the game 20:38:33 <petern> *** Game paused (connecting client) 20:38:33 <petern> *** Game unpaused (client connected) 20:38:33 <petern> *** Game unpaused (enough players) 20:38:35 <petern> dbg: [net] Closed client connection 7 20:38:38 <petern> *** petern has left the game (connection lost) 20:38:39 <Nite_Owl> Hello all 20:38:40 <petern> *** Game paused (not enough players) 20:38:43 <petern> Error: [net] Trying to execute a packet in the past! 20:38:45 <petern> openttd: /home/petern/ottd/nightly/src/openttd.cpp:144: void error(const char*, ...): Assertion `0' failed. 20:38:48 <petern> Aborted 20:39:02 <frosch123> Aali: you are good in breaking by stuff, wanna try again? :p http://devs.openttd.org/~frosch/diffs/nexttry.diff 20:39:52 *** sigmund [~sigmund@91.80-202-245.nextgentel.com] has joined #openttd 20:39:56 <petern> that's on a dedicated server... how can it execute a packet if it's paused? heh 20:40:51 <Nite_Owl> Oops - sorry petern - I did not mean to interrupt your lack of game 20:41:41 *** sigmund_ [~sigmund@91.80-202-245.nextgentel.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:43:55 <petern> oh dear 20:44:03 <petern> my server is desynced 20:44:05 <petern> *ing 20:44:09 <petern> on a brand new game 20:44:13 <petern> with no vehicles 20:44:23 <petern> and no company 20:44:26 <petern> and no newgrfs 20:44:46 <TrueBrain> BAD! 20:46:57 <petern> and it messes with pause 20:48:46 <dihedral> [21:39] <petern> that's on a dedicated server... how can it execute a packet if it's paused? heh <- CMD_COMPANY_CTRL 20:49:11 *** NukeBuster [~wouter@80.101.115.82] has joined #openttd 20:49:49 <dihedral> try joining as spectator instead of starting a new company :-P 20:50:11 <Aali> frosch123: not bad 20:50:39 <frosch123> haha, so it survived the first 5 minutes :p 20:50:48 <Aali> trains do get lost when you reverse them in-station with PBS 20:50:57 <Aali> but all the other issues seem to be gone 20:51:39 <petern> dihedral: how would that help? 20:52:26 <frosch123> Aali: at least that is no new issue \o/ 20:53:14 <Aali> and its only an issue if you trigger it on purpose :P 20:53:14 <dihedral> that is like the only docommand i know of, that runs when the game is paused 20:53:30 <dihedral> well - and the unpause 20:53:58 <petern> that is blatantly untrue 20:54:06 <petern> loads of commands work when paused 20:54:12 <dihedral> oh 20:54:13 <dihedral> ok 20:54:28 <petern> and this is the server failing 20:54:30 <petern> anyway 20:54:35 <petern> it seems if you have a server running 20:54:39 <petern> with a client connected 20:55:13 <petern> and then load an existing game or start a new one, the client will try to reconnect (why does it do that?) and the server will from then on not work properly until it's restarted 20:55:29 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~Flex@89.246.204.219] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:55:36 <petern> it needs the client to reconnect to cause it to mess up, though 20:56:03 <petern> if you disconnect first, then newgame, then connect, it's fine 20:56:37 *** vraa [~vraa@h134.79.20.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:56:54 <dihedral> uh - that's new then 20:56:58 *** vraa [~vraa@h134.79.20.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net] has joined #openttd 20:57:05 <dihedral> because with 0.5.3 i never used to see issues with that 20:57:48 <dihedral> again - it would be interesting to see if that happens, when you are spectator 20:58:09 <dihedral> because then your client rejoins to spectator and not some invalid company 21:00:11 <petern> i was spectator 21:00:20 <petern> tried both 21:00:31 <petern> and yes, of course it's new 21:00:40 <petern> why would i run a 0.5.3 server? 21:01:36 <dihedral> ? 21:01:49 <dihedral> when you had clients connected and you ran newgame they would reconnect! 21:02:46 *** NukeBuster [~wouter@80.101.115.82] has left #openttd [] 21:04:27 <OwenS> Hmm - I wonder how difficult it would be for me to write a hardware accelerated blitter 21:05:16 <petern> using what method? 21:05:25 <OwenS> OpenGL 21:05:34 <OwenS> It would firstly be able to offload palette lookups 21:07:06 <OwenS> All 8-bit textures would be uploaded as GL_LUMINANCE textures, then a shader would look up their values in a 256 entry 1D texture using GL_NEAREST mapping (to avoid minification & interpolation artefacts) 21:07:36 <glx> petern: this behaviour happened before but it has been fixed IIRC 21:07:50 <glx> maybe recent changes broke it again 21:08:09 *** lewymati [~lewymati@aeiy82.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [] 21:08:48 <OwenS> Using the correct projection matrix, you could continue to consider the screen as a (0...width-1, 0...height-1) pixel screen then just use GL_QUADs to render sprites 21:10:29 <frosch123> aren't there already two opengl blitters? 21:12:09 <OwenS> Theres apparently an experimental OpenGL blitter 21:15:20 <petern> there are two, yes 21:15:30 <petern> that one and mine 21:15:39 <el_en> or even three 21:15:50 <petern> or four! 21:16:18 * OwenS can't help but wonder what their progress is like 21:16:47 <el_en> a coworker of mine made one back in 2004, and it hasn't been released in public. 21:17:07 <petern> they falter when zoomed out 21:18:23 <OwenS> O_o in what way? 21:18:42 <OwenS> (I'd test but it seems it's not in my (custom compiled) nightly) 21:20:34 <petern> very slow 21:21:04 <OwenS> I'd assume they may be hitting the graphics card's batch limitation :s 21:24:54 *** Roujin [~chatzilla@mnch-5d861607.pool.einsundeins.de] has joined #openttd 21:28:43 <dihedral> oh c'mon, you could run the entire app on todays graphics cards :-P 21:29:09 <TrueBrain> dihedral: make a patch for that :) 21:29:41 <TrueBrain> petern: I made one too :) Makes 4 ;) 21:31:15 <OwenS> dihedral: Graphics cards suck at if()s :p 21:35:00 *** NukeBuster [~NukeBuste@80.101.115.82] has joined #openttd 21:57:10 *** dvo [~asd@0x3e42e6e6.adsl.cybercity.dk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:58:14 *** Terkhen [~Terkhen@131.69.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [] 21:58:40 <dihedral> TrueBrain: not quite my field of .... expertise :-P 21:59:34 <goodger> actually, a recent graphics card is probably more powerful than most PCs in use today 21:59:51 <dihedral> ? 22:00:03 <OwenS> goodger: Not really. GPUs aren't turing complete 22:00:36 <OwenS> Well, they are, but theyre turing tarpits ;-) 22:00:58 <glx> they are dedicated to one task only 22:01:10 <dihedral> goodger: so you average computer's power of those in use to be < 800 MHz? 22:01:24 <OwenS> dihedral: My GPU is 500Mhz. But it has 96 cores ;-) 22:01:28 *** worldemar [~world@85.114.161.90] has quit [Quit: An exit status of zero indicates success, and a nonzero value indicates failure.] 22:01:37 <OwenS> And GPUs are VERY SIMD 22:02:06 <OwenS> The reason why branches are a very bad idea on GPUs is because it can't parallelize the shader nearly as well 22:02:22 <goodger> dihedral: speaking in terms of TFLOPS 22:02:33 <goodger> does your desktop PC deliver 1.5 TFLOPS by itself? 22:02:43 <goodger> new graphics cards do 22:02:52 <dihedral> the one i have at work? :-P 22:03:15 <OwenS> goodger: Yes. But it's integer performance is probably abysmal 22:05:07 <goodger> OwenS: likely. the power remains 22:05:20 <goodger> hello vraa 22:05:24 * goodger waves 22:05:28 <vraa> :) 22:05:41 <Aali> goodger: do you brush your teeth with a chainsaw? 22:05:53 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~Flex@89.246.204.219] has joined #openttd 22:06:21 *** vraa [~vraa@h134.79.20.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 22:06:24 <goodger> Aali: no, but the chainsaw's motor still has more power than the toothbrush's 22:06:57 <Aali> yes, but that power is useless for the task at hand 22:07:01 <OwenS> New graphics cards have good integer performance, but still suffer more from branches than a 32-level pipeline Pentium 4 - and thats saying something! 22:07:14 *** energetic [~opera@ip82-139-119-221.lijbrandt.net] has joined #openttd 22:16:09 <dihedral> http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=36&t=41326 <- check out the voting options :-D 22:16:24 <dihedral> esp the second one 22:17:33 <goodger> WTF does "no,later" mean? 22:17:47 <Zuu> I've never seen the "don't" GRF :) 22:17:58 *** FR^2 [frr@oscar.frquadrat.de] has quit [Quit: Connection reset by caffein depletion...] 22:18:04 <Nite_Owl> The forums have hit a new level of funny lately 22:18:41 <frosch123> goodger: I thought you were the native-speaking one :p 22:18:50 <goodger> frosch123: precisely :P 22:18:51 <frosch123> but yes, the poll is hillarious :) 22:19:20 <goodger> "no, later" is usually considered to mean "do it later, rather than now" --- but this makes no sense as a poll response :S 22:19:54 <frosch123> perhaps you are too busy with playing with other newgrfs, so you cannot survice yet another newgrf to play with :p 22:21:53 <goodger> that makes even less sense :P 22:26:15 *** mortal [~mortal@0x573a3da2.odnqu1.static.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [Quit: Checking whether build environment is sane ... build environment is grinning and holding a spatula. Guess not.] 22:28:12 <George> frosch123: Would it be hard to implement FS2521? 22:29:15 <frosch123> no, I just wondered whether it is correct to add it to that variable. i.e. others would want to get an uphill/downhill bit 22:33:19 *** [com]buster [~eternal@cust-03-55bf402e.adsl.scarlet.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:33:27 *** TinoM [~Tino@i59F5E553.versanet.de] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 22:46:42 <dihedral> night 22:46:50 <TrueBrain> night dihedral 22:47:06 <Nite_Owl> later dihedral 22:47:24 <goodger> night 22:50:16 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: truebrain * r14981 /branches/noai/ (15 files in 5 dirs): 22:50:16 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: [NoAI] -Codechange: reworked how AI settings were stored in Settings (partly based on patch by Yexo) 22:50:16 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: [NoAI] -Codechange: introduced an AIConfig layer, which keeps track of AI settings (partly based on patch by Yexo) 22:50:16 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: [NoAI] -Codechange: reworked most of the codeflow regarding above subjects (partly based on patch by Yexo) 22:53:54 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: truebrain * r14982 /branches/noai/src/ai/ai.cpp: [NoAI] -Codechange: cut down on the includes 22:54:03 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: truebrain * r14983 /branches/noai/src/ai/ (ai.h ai_config.hpp api/ai_controller.hpp): [NoAI] -Codechange: prepare for rename 22:59:18 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: truebrain * r14984 /branches/noai/ (21 files in 5 dirs): 22:59:18 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: [NoAI] -Codechange: renamed ai.h to ai.hpp (we are C++ after all) 22:59:18 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: [NoAI] -Codechange: renamed ai.cpp to ../saveload/ai_sl.cpp, as that was what it was doing 22:59:48 <George> frosch123: of cause using other var is not bad too 23:00:26 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: truebrain * r14985 /branches/noai/projects/ (openttd_vs80.vcproj openttd_vs90.vcproj): [NoAI] -Fix (r14984): paint me yellow and call me a banana, I forgot MSVC again (oh dear ...) 23:00:52 <TrueBrain> 1 commit every 2 minutes .. I wonder if I can keep that up :p 23:01:25 <Eddi|zuHause> please do that 23:03:19 <TrueBrain> hehe 23:03:25 * TrueBrain starts to make oneline-commits :p 23:03:53 *** mikl [~mikl@0x57372ee2.mrbnqu1.static.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [Quit: mikl] 23:03:55 <TrueBrain> enough code-changing for one day ... VERY dull I can tell you ... most boring job ever ... 23:04:18 <frosch123> [00:03] <TrueBrain> 1 commit every 2 minutes .. I wonder if I can keep that up :p <- you won't keep up with finding names of fruits 23:04:41 <TrueBrain> frosch123: you would be suprised ;) 23:05:09 <TrueBrain> never underestimate the creativity of a madman :) 23:05:51 *** Dred_furst` [~Dred_furs@resnet555.bournemouth.ac.uk] has joined #openttd 23:06:04 <Rubidium> TrueBrain: start with mabolo ;) 23:06:30 <TrueBrain> mabolo? 23:06:52 <Rubidium> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mabolo 23:06:55 <TrueBrain> weird piece of fruit 23:07:36 <frosch123> QUESTION to the channel: did anyone ever assigned serviceintervals to individual vehicles? 23:07:57 <glx> I even don't do it generally 23:08:08 <TrueBrain> VERY VERY long ago :) 23:08:20 <TrueBrain> but then the default was 120, and no way to change that ;) 23:08:40 <Rubidium> frosch123: technically yes, in the "mood" of the question I'd've to say no 23:09:26 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, i once tried to set them all higher when breakdowns were off 23:09:44 <Rubidium> conditional age order + service order + autoreplace - breakdowns == autoreplace when the vehicle gets 'old' 23:09:52 <frosch123> I can only remember that I was several times quite annoyed that changing the default interval does not apply to all vehicles 23:10:13 <frosch123> then i got uses to setting it to 800 days and use force-depots or whatever they are called 23:12:41 *** Dred_furst [~Dred_furs@resnet555.bournemouth.ac.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:14:05 <TrueBrain> I ahve to say, I am suprised you can still manage it per vehicle :) 23:14:12 <TrueBrain> 200 trains .. haha :) 23:15:34 <frosch123> would someone notice, if that would be removed :p 23:16:05 <TrueBrain> doubtful; but why would you want to do that? 23:16:09 <Rubidium> yes... your friend from tt-ms.de and then he'd have a 6th point 23:16:47 <frosch123> 6th point, sounds like my recent post :p 23:17:10 <Rubidium> but then, who cares about him 23:17:42 <Rubidium> it's always interesting how wrong people can sometimes be 23:19:05 <TrueBrain> makes me still wonder why someone would want to remove it :) Is it in your way? :p 23:19:24 *** tom0004 [~Tom@92.4.96.177] has quit [Quit: http://www.chogie.eu] 23:19:28 <frosch123> however, TrueBrain: troublesome is changing percentage/time-interval when there are already vehicles built, as well as changing it from disabled to enabled 23:20:15 <frosch123> s/it/serviceintervals/ 23:20:27 <TrueBrain> hehe 23:20:30 <TrueBrain> fair enough :) 23:20:52 <Roujin> how about a button for resetting it to default again? 23:21:07 <Roujin> like you can now reset names of towns, stations etc. to default? 23:21:16 <Roujin> would that also solve your problem? 23:21:51 <frosch123> though percentage... how many in this channel know whether service-percentage means reliability dropping by or to the specified relative or absolute amount 23:21:58 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r14986 /trunk/src/timetable_cmd.cpp: -Doc: small error in a comment (PhilSophus) 23:22:27 <TrueBrain> I always assumed it meant that if the reliability is below N%, it would service itself :p 23:22:56 <frosch123> so "to" and "absolute": both wrong :p 23:23:21 <TrueBrain> haha :) 23:23:26 <TrueBrain> so a failure by design ;) 23:23:37 <Roujin> but speaking about removing stuff.. now after the restructuring of the advanced settings window (and I made a screenshot of it and added information to the wiki), I noticed some options that could in my opinion easily be removed 23:24:00 <Roujin> e.g. show vehicle speed in status bar 23:24:10 <Roujin> who would want to disable that? :/ 23:24:15 * frosch123 is always surprised how many options are already now present in the gui :/ 23:24:24 <TrueBrain> people :) 23:24:37 <Roujin> or Always show long date in the status bar 23:24:40 <TrueBrain> there can't be enough ;) 23:24:43 <frosch123> s/now/not/ 23:24:50 <Rubidium> moar settings! 23:24:55 <TrueBrain> MORE MORE MORE MORE! 23:25:00 <TrueBrain> we want to outdo TTDp! :) 23:25:01 <frosch123> why are my typos always logical inverting? 23:25:18 <goodger> frosch123: sod's law 23:25:25 <Roujin> why the heck would someone want to have only the month and year while unpaused, and the day only when paused? 23:25:48 <Rubidium> because (s)he wants to play TTD 23:26:01 <Roujin> okay, that was TTD behavior.. but hey, it's an improvement 23:26:04 <frosch123> 00:28] <Roujin> why the heck would someone want to have only the month and year while unpaused, and the day only when paused? <- is that a setting oO 23:26:15 <TrueBrain> haha :) 23:26:21 <TrueBrain> welcome frosch123, in the world of endless settings :) 23:26:26 <Roujin> frosch123: IIRC that's the behavior when you deactivate "Always show long date in the status bar" 23:26:54 <frosch123> ah well, I read it as "do not show month and year, but only day" when paused :p 23:27:05 <TrueBrain> I believe I have almost all settings ACTIVE 23:27:07 <TrueBrain> .. :p 23:27:37 <glx> even the mouse related ones? 23:28:00 <TrueBrain> almost ;) 23:28:20 <Roujin> Rubidium: Since when does OpenTTD have the same principle as TTDPatch - "If the player wants he can disable everything so that he plays vanilla TTD" 23:28:23 * glx should start openttd to see how is the "new" GUI 23:28:26 <frosch123> [00:29] <TrueBrain> I believe I have almost all settings ACTIVE <- but only because you play noai :p 23:28:34 <TrueBrain> Roujin: from origin? 23:29:03 <TrueBrain> frosch123: I never played NoAI :$ 23:29:08 <TrueBrain> I wouldn't know how AdmiralAI behaves ... 23:29:19 <TrueBrain> I just noticed I have 50% of the settings OFF in fact .. 23:29:24 <TrueBrain> (well, of interface) 23:29:32 <glx> Roujin: at least you can do that at runtime 23:29:41 <TrueBrain> and Inflation is off :p 23:29:44 <Zuu> glx: I just started OpenTTD for the same reason, what a refreshing thing... 23:29:52 <TrueBrain> the rest is all on :) 23:30:15 <TrueBrain> glx: good idea :) 23:30:31 * glx needs to redo some translations ;) 23:31:08 <frosch123> or increase the default width :p 23:31:23 <Roujin> There are more serious changes to vanilla TTD than displaying the full date when unpaused, or displaying the speed of a vehicle in its window, that are not disable-able. 23:31:24 <glx> no some just look silly 23:31:30 <Eddi|zuHause> <Roujin> Rubidium: Since when does OpenTTD have the same principle as TTDPatch - "If the player wants he can disable everything so that he plays vanilla TTD" <- since elrails got introduced, and people revolted against the fact that disabling elrails was a cheat, not a setting 23:31:33 <Zuu> Will need some time to get used to, but interesting and refreshing change of the advanced settings window. 23:31:36 <Roujin> e.g. the new airports 23:31:39 <glx> but I did them without knowing how it would look 23:31:51 <TrueBrain> Roujin: don't use them ;) 23:31:54 <TrueBrain> simply enough ;) 23:32:30 <Roujin> Will the old ai build new airports? 23:32:44 <TrueBrain> don't talk about the old AI please 23:32:59 <Roujin> but I want to play vanilla TTD, with a vanilla TTD AI... 23:33:02 <Roujin> ;) 23:33:10 <TrueBrain> fuck you :) 23:33:22 <goodger> *shudder* 23:33:28 <Zuu> I would like to suggest some visual spacing under a open group of settings. 23:33:36 <goodger> also *slaps TrueBrain's wrist* 23:33:48 <frosch123> "Automatically build semaphores before: 1600" <- my favorite setting :) 23:33:58 <Eddi|zuHause> Roujin: you can always reimplement the old ai as a new ai 23:34:12 <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: no you can't 23:34:15 <frosch123> no, it would bankrupt 23:34:16 <TrueBrain> Eddi|zuHause: nope, impossible 23:34:32 <Eddi|zuHause> that's a different issue :p 23:34:35 <TrueBrain> no, you simply can't 23:34:39 <TrueBrain> cheating no longer is an option :) 23:34:52 *** Roujin_ [~chatzilla@mnch-5d861607.pool.einsundeins.de] has joined #openttd 23:35:04 <Zuu> TrueBrain: Well, player can cheat, so why shouldn't AI be able to use the Cheat window? ;) 23:35:40 <glx> Zuu: cheat window doesn't prevent you to pay for terraforming 23:35:48 <Eddi|zuHause> Zuu: the ai used different cheats 23:35:54 <Eddi|zuHause> like terraforming for free 23:36:10 <Zuu> Yea I know, but getting lot of money would be almost the same. 23:36:13 <frosch123> though you could call it "seismology AI" in memory of one of the nicest bug reports :) 23:36:14 <Rubidium> free +60 station rating or so 23:36:50 <Zuu> Rubidium: That one would be harder with the player available cheats. 23:38:11 *** vraa [~vraa@h134.79.20.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net] has joined #openttd 23:38:28 <Zuu> hmm, but a AI that uses coop-style money makers, to be able to play as the old AI :) 23:38:34 <Roujin_> anyway, my point is.. there are a bunch of settings that bring only a benefit when activated, and the only reason I can imagine for deactivating those is for having a "nostalgic TTD feel", and those could imo at least be removed from the gui 23:39:13 <Zuu> Or Roujin_ Or have a nostalgic category maybe? 23:39:23 <Roujin_> can still leave it in the .cfg for those hypothetical TTD nuts :) 23:40:14 <Roujin_> (thesis: those who care about such will always stay with TTDPatch anyways :P) 23:40:25 <TrueBrain> I think Zuu has a nice idea there yes 23:40:29 <TrueBrain> put it in their own category :) 23:40:36 <frosch123> "drawing of high bridgepillars" is not even a nostalgic patch option 23:40:59 <frosch123> it is more like a debug option 23:41:38 *** ecke [~ecke@213.195.202.130] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:41:44 *** Roujin [~chatzilla@mnch-5d861607.pool.einsundeins.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:42:22 <TrueBrain> 8bpp-debug blitter is a nice debug option ;) 23:42:40 <frosch123> it should be the default on 1st april 23:42:46 <Roujin_> Another candidate is imo "Enable building of very long trains". 23:42:49 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r14987 /branches/noai/src/ (roadveh_cmd.cpp saveload/oldloader.cpp): [NoAI] -Fix (r14984): compile failure 23:43:15 <frosch123> Roujin_: you can also change it into a configurable length 23:43:23 <Zuu> Roujin_: But disabling that one can have a point in MP. 23:43:24 <frosch123> though you would need to remove the old autoreplace hack 23:43:54 <Zuu> Though I would rather limit it by setting station spread to something small. 23:43:55 <Roujin_> Zuu: I see your point, but then it should be a configurable option like frosch123 just mentioned 23:44:14 <Zuu> yea frosch123 has a point there. 23:44:48 <Roujin_> frosch123: what's about that hack? 23:45:17 <frosch123> the setting limits the number of vehicles, not counting articulated parts, and not caring about vehicle length 23:45:51 <frosch123> i.e. I would expect the train length to be limited, instead of the number of wagons 23:45:55 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: truebrain * r14988 /branches/noai/src/ (6 files in 2 dirs): [NoAI] -Fix (r14984): makedepend failure 23:46:16 *** ecke [~ecke@213.195.202.130] has joined #openttd 23:46:36 <Roujin_> and that would be significantly harder because of newgrfs and callbacks and all that I guess.. 23:46:55 <frosch123> not really anymore 23:48:09 <TrueBrain> I feel a patch coming up :) 23:48:18 <Roujin_> oh? I'd have guessed that it is impossible to guess the length of a wagon before actually buying it and attaching it to the train 23:48:35 <frosch123> Roujin_: the same is done for wagon removal :) 23:48:50 * goodger has an idea for a global warming patch that increases the sea level every 10 years 23:48:53 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1DB8F.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:49:34 <Zuu> I just got the idea to put a search box on the patch window, but I guess I soon become mr Search. :p 23:49:36 <OwenS> goodger: What do you do then when it's at level 16? :P 23:49:48 <Roujin_> OwenS: game over, everybody loses. 23:49:51 <Zuu> OwenS: Install the more height levels patch 23:49:59 <TrueBrain> games of 160 yeras 23:50:01 <TrueBrain> nasty 23:50:14 <Roujin_> you should set it up so that it reaches level 16 exactly at 2050. 23:50:31 <Roujin_> that would then serve as explanation why the game "ends" in 2050 ;) 23:50:36 <goodger> *nod* 23:50:45 <OwenS> The city i'm working on in #ottdc would just have a couple of skyscrapers above the water level (IRL) :P 23:51:14 <goodger> OwenS: you've got a value for the height of a TTD heightlevel then? 23:51:23 <TrueBrain> bah ... then you download a random movie thinking: this should proof interesting ... and after 2 minutes you notice: I have already seen this one!! 23:51:25 <TrueBrain> I hate that .. 23:51:33 <goodger> heh 23:51:48 <OwenS> goodger: Judging by the heighto the skyscrapers vs hills :p 23:51:54 <goodger> ah 23:52:18 <Roujin_> frosch123: then why is it impossible to guess the cost prior to actually buying it? key word NOTEST and such.. 23:52:22 <frosch123> [00:49] <Roujin_> and that would be significantly harder because of newgrfs and callbacks and all that I guess.. <- though vehicles changing their length on refit could cause headache 23:52:40 <Eddi|zuHause> TrueBrain: serves you right for downloading a movie :p 23:52:49 <frosch123> Roujin_: it is? only in 0.6, or? 23:52:52 <TrueBrain> Eddi|zuHause: I guess .. 23:53:29 <frosch123> Roujin_: or do you mean when the train is outside of a depot? 23:53:40 * goodger is amused by latest copyright infringement advertisements 23:53:45 <frosch123> i.e. the fs#"weird autoreplace behaviour" 23:54:36 <OwenS> My 1TB HD is rapidly filling up with ripped DVDs =S (Raw rips that is - left in their original MPEG-2) 23:54:57 <goodger> OwenS: time to whip out the old ffmpeg then... 23:55:09 <goodger> I suggest h264 but I have no idea what bitrate 23:55:11 <OwenS> goodger: That would reduce the quality ;-) 23:55:41 <Roujin_> frosch123: I'm talking about certain comments in code (command.cpp)... 23:55:46 * frosch123 gave up to collect movies, they become boring 23:55:50 <Roujin_> CMD_CLONE_VEHICLE: Both building new vehicles and refitting them can be 23:55:52 <Roujin_> * influenced by newgrf callbacks, which makes it impossible to accurately 23:55:54 <Roujin_> * estimate the cost of cloning a vehicle. */ 23:55:57 <glx> OwenS: with correct settings it reduce size only 23:56:02 <frosch123> clone != autoreplace 23:56:12 <goodger> OwenS: actually you can reduce h264's bitrate to ludicrous degrees without reducing the quality 23:56:18 <goodger> glx: that's not a good thing 23:56:18 <Roujin_> true... 23:56:28 <frosch123> and yes, cloneing could also be done, but it would mean more work 23:56:47 <OwenS> goodger: Unless I have x264 hogging my PC for days, I can see the quality difference 23:57:03 *** Brianetta [~brian@client-82-14-72-109.glfd.adsl.virgin.net] has joined #openttd 23:57:05 <Roujin_> ah. okay. sorry for mixing up things.. 23:57:13 <OwenS> My eyes are too good at detecting blocking artefacts =S 23:57:21 <TrueBrain> OwenS: so it is time to start using bluray :) 23:57:32 <OwenS> TrueBrain: Then my HD would fill up faster! 23:57:40 <goodger> OwenS: it is perfectly possible to reduce bitrate without introducing such artefacts 23:57:46 <TrueBrain> OwenS: yup :) 23:57:49 <TrueBrain> so buy them :) 23:58:01 <OwenS> TrueBrain: I have these DVDs in my collection 23:58:04 <goodger> notably, divx doesn't even seem to introduce blocking artefacts 23:58:15 <glx> the only cheap bluray player is the PS3 23:58:16 <OwenS> goodger: You haven't been paying enough attention! 23:58:32 <Zuu> Night guys 23:58:34 <TrueBrain> glx: yup :) But raw downloads are for free ;) 23:58:37 <goodger> I've been paying plenty of attention 23:58:38 *** Zuu [~Zuu@c-84f0e655.510-8-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:58:40 <goodger> night zuu 23:58:42 <goodger> damn 23:58:43 <TrueBrain> goodger: clearly you are looking with your 11th finger .. 23:58:55 <goodger> shush 23:59:03 <OwenS> TrueBrain, But it's far easier to play them over the network on the PS3 than shuffle through my shelves. And never mind that I have Region 1 DVDs that my PS3 and DVD players refuse to play ;-) 23:59:23 *** WhiteRhino [White@modem176.tmlp.net] has joined #openttd 23:59:34 <WhiteRhino> Evening, folks. 23:59:38 <TrueBrain> crack your DVD player :) But yeah ... I do the same with my xbox :) 23:59:45 <TrueBrain> streamng is always easier :) 23:59:51 *** mib_041m101y [4c7541c7@webchat.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 23:59:58 <TrueBrain> howdi Rhino