Times are UTC Toggle Colours
00:00:16 *** glx [glx@2a01:e35:2f59:c7c0:6945:53c8:2a8b:dc8c] has quit [Quit: bye] 00:07:10 *** [com]buster [~Combuster@82-171-220-59.ip.telfort.nl] has joined #openttd 00:07:10 *** Combuster [~Combuster@82-171-220-59.ip.telfort.nl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:07:13 *** [com]buster is now known as Combuster 00:21:34 *** racetrack [~racetrack@pyro.its.monash.edu.au] has joined #openttd 00:43:17 *** KenjiE20|LT [~Kenji@host86-171-246-6.range86-171.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 00:45:40 *** DephNet[Paul] [~paul@host86-131-53-35.range86-131.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:45:56 *** KenjiE20 [~KenjiE20@92.23.182.91] has quit [Quit: HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <- \o/] 00:48:03 *** DephNet[Paul] [~paul@host86-131-53-35.range86-131.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 00:48:22 *** fjb_ [~frank@p5485DAF8.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 00:52:12 *** fjb [~frank@p5485DA7D.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 00:58:22 <Eddi|zuHause> exit 00:58:31 <Eddi|zuHause> wrong window... 00:58:41 *** racetrack [~racetrack@pyro.its.monash.edu.au] has quit [Quit: no. just, no.] 01:03:58 <Eddi|zuHause> <TrueBrain> what is this lately about new ideas and stuff? Never seen it that active :p <- it's spring... makes people do... weird stuff 01:10:15 *** SHADOW-XIII [~Miranda@78.149.135.217] has joined #openttd 01:14:45 *** welshdragon [~welshdrag@80.247.163.137] has joined #openttd 01:27:56 *** Klanticus [~quassel@189.103.17.245] has joined #openttd 02:36:01 *** SHADOW-XIII [~Miranda@78.149.135.217] has quit [Quit: Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, THE BEST ! - http://miranda-im.org] 03:04:21 *** Dred_furst [~Dred@resnet517.bournemouth.ac.uk] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:08:11 *** Frostregen [~sucks@dslb-084-058-187-113.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: und weg] 03:08:46 *** TinoDidriksen [~projectjj@port432.ds1-od.adsl.cybercity.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 03:12:35 *** TinoDidriksen [~projectjj@port432.ds1-od.adsl.cybercity.dk] has joined #openttd 03:12:50 *** Klanticus [~quassel@189.103.17.245] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 03:22:02 *** NukeBuster [~wouter@80.101.115.82] has left #openttd [] 03:27:12 *** DephNet[Paul] [~paul@host86-131-53-35.range86-131.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:34:32 *** DephNet[Paul] [~paul@host86-131-47-109.range86-131.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 03:38:50 *** TinoDidriksen [~projectjj@port432.ds1-od.adsl.cybercity.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 03:42:56 *** TinoDidriksen [~projectjj@port432.ds1-od.adsl.cybercity.dk] has joined #openttd 03:42:58 *** const86 [const@tower.mimas.ru] has quit [Quit: I'll be back] 03:45:07 *** KenjiE20|LT [~Kenji@host86-171-246-6.range86-171.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:53:56 *** csokisnyuszi [~matrix@5403C69A.catv.pool.telekom.hu] has joined #openttd 03:54:02 <csokisnyuszi> heil-o 03:54:24 <csokisnyuszi> anybody play ttd here? 04:10:18 <kkb110> not ottd? 04:10:45 <kkb110> . 04:14:08 <csokisnyuszi> i just tried openttd 04:14:31 <csokisnyuszi> its cool, but i miss the bugs from ttd ;> 04:20:27 <kkb110> hahaha 04:20:37 <kkb110> what bug for example? 04:20:40 <csokisnyuszi> :) 04:22:16 <csokisnyuszi> for example the cheap water blowup using a dock, and place a flag to don't let water go back 04:24:10 <csokisnyuszi> while was bored, i've built a path for the maglev trains on water from the oil-refinery to the oil-platform in the middle of some ocean 04:30:57 <kkb110> haha 04:31:11 <kkb110> making seaworld is also funny 04:31:37 <kkb110> flat all the map at once to water level 04:34:11 <csokisnyuszi> you can make some jokemap too 04:34:30 <kkb110> jokemap? 04:35:07 <csokisnyuszi> let map be at sea-level, place a square water somewhere hidden 04:35:20 <csokisnyuszi> let player notice after a while 04:35:28 <csokisnyuszi> waterworld is coming 04:35:37 <kkb110> lol 04:35:42 <kkb110> that's awesome hah 04:35:48 <csokisnyuszi> ;> 04:36:12 <csokisnyuszi> did you know original TTD money counter overflows at longint to negative? 04:36:52 <kkb110> no I didn't know but it seems it'll take like 100 years to reach that negative balance 04:38:29 <csokisnyuszi> with effective railroad system you can overflow it faster 04:39:09 <csokisnyuszi> but i guess OpenTTD won't overflow to negative at 32bit limit 04:42:06 <kkb110> I just checked 04:42:13 *** TinoDid [~projectjj@port432.ds1-od.adsl.cybercity.dk] has joined #openttd 04:42:15 <kkb110> in economy_type.h 04:42:23 <kkb110> typedef OverflowSafeInt64 Money; // :D 04:42:52 <csokisnyuszi> <; 04:43:13 <csokisnyuszi> that'd be hard to overflow 04:44:36 <kkb110> and what even more is that. this type actually checks and prevents even if there is an overflow 04:45:00 <csokisnyuszi> cool 04:47:21 <csokisnyuszi> so i can now have 9223372036854775806 euros 04:47:40 <kkb110> :D 04:48:46 *** TinoDidriksen [~projectjj@port432.ds1-od.adsl.cybercity.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 04:50:34 <csokisnyuszi> tried 2048x2048 map 04:54:07 <csokisnyuszi> looking forward for lev-5 maglev breaking mach-1 with a sonic boom and lev-6 @ mach-2 and lev-7 @ mach-3 04:58:22 <csokisnyuszi> like lev-5 be 50000hp lev6 be 200000hp lev7 be 1000000hp 04:58:29 <csokisnyuszi> heheh http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mach_number 04:58:36 <csokisnyuszi> cool pic 05:01:01 *** phidah [~phidah@1305ds3-oebr.0.fullrate.dk] has joined #openttd 05:02:06 *** NukeBuster [~wouter@80.101.115.82] has joined #openttd 05:02:16 <csokisnyuszi> hi 05:10:31 *** phidah [~phidah@1305ds3-oebr.0.fullrate.dk] has quit [Quit: phidah] 05:21:55 *** ohnoitsavram [avram@123-243-10-69.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #openttd 05:22:13 *** Cybertinus [~Cybertinu@a82-95-167-159.adsl.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 05:22:55 <csokisnyuszi> heil-o 05:32:20 *** NukeBuster [~wouter@80.101.115.82] has left #openttd [] 05:32:36 <DaleStan> Eddi|zuHause, planetmaker, SmatZ, and anyone else who is having problems with NFORenum: Please post in the thread on the forums. Anything said here will be forgotten before I have time to touch the source. 05:33:11 *** el_en [~lanurmi@dyn-xdsl-83-150-113-243.nebulazone.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 06:35:27 *** ohnoitsavram [avram@123-243-10-69.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Quit: Bye for now!] 06:47:07 *** maristo [~maristo@host217-114-156-151.pppoe.mark-itt.net] has joined #openttd 06:50:41 <dihedral> morning lads :) 06:58:22 *** Singaporekid [~notme@cm94.psi148.maxonline.com.sg] has joined #openttd 07:13:02 <planetmaker> good morning 07:36:01 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1F202.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 07:38:46 *** Dred_furst [~Dred@resnet517.bournemouth.ac.uk] has joined #openttd 07:41:10 *** Chris_Booth [~chatzilla@82-32-210-243.cable.ubr07.newt.blueyonder.co.uk] has joined #openttd 07:45:12 *** Combuster [~Combuster@82-171-220-59.ip.telfort.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 07:54:42 <TrueBrain> "Anything said here will be forgotten before I have time to touch the source." <- you will all forget it, before he touches the source. Just so you know :p :p :p 07:55:11 * Forked fondles the source 07:55:53 *** Singaporekid [~notme@cm94.psi148.maxonline.com.sg] has quit [Quit: ur a smel] 07:57:02 *** fonsinchen [~alve@BAEddf3.bae.pppool.de] has joined #openttd 07:59:40 <TrueBrain> Either way, a very good morning to you all 08:08:42 *** fonsinchen [~alve@BAEddf3.bae.pppool.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:10:43 <Forked> morning, sir TB 08:16:35 <planetmaker> g'day TrueBrain 08:31:43 *** fonsinchen [~alve@BAEddf3.bae.pppool.de] has joined #openttd 08:31:54 <Ammler> hello ladies and gentlemen :-/ 08:32:57 <Ammler> (and you) 08:37:59 <planetmaker> :-o 08:39:49 <Ammler> :-) 08:46:59 <guru3> Good morning. 08:54:31 *** Hirundo [~chatzilla@5355F5FD.cable.casema.nl] has joined #openttd 08:57:55 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-590c394e.pool.einsundeins.de] has joined #openttd 09:10:43 *** kkb110 [~kkb110@c-68-82-181-52.hsd1.de.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:11:16 *** kkb110 [~kkb110@c-68-82-181-52.hsd1.de.comcast.net] has joined #openttd 09:16:27 *** Exl [~myself@cp1224652-a.roemd1.lb.home.nl] has joined #openttd 09:17:24 *** Vikthor [~novotv6@pc404-9.feld.cvut.cz] has joined #openttd 09:18:00 <TrueBrain> so what am I going to do today Pinky? 09:21:19 <petern> something different 09:22:19 <frosch123> teach DorpsGek to kick everyone who joins 5 times within one hour 09:23:53 <TrueBrain> I considered that :p 09:24:38 <blathijs> So they can join _again_ ? :-p 09:25:02 <frosch123> yeah, so if they have autojoin, dorpsgek will kick them 10 times in a row, and then ban them 09:29:46 *** Rexxars [~rexxars@62.73.249.23] has joined #openttd 09:39:45 *** Zahl [~Zahl@f050214193.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #openttd 09:45:16 *** Executioner [Executione@dslb-094-223-192-177.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd 09:45:52 <Executioner> http://3x3cut10n3r.mybrute.com/ <--- have fun & good luck 09:46:00 *** Executioner [Executione@dslb-094-223-192-177.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [] 09:47:18 <Forked> right 09:48:03 <frosch123> bad luck, noone was fast enough to kick him, so no fun 09:48:13 <TrueBrain> frosch123: exactly what I was thinking :p 09:53:04 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: rubidium * r16238 /trunk/ (4 files in 3 dirs): -Change: improve/clarify some network related debug "error" messages by adding more information to them. Also give some clues on how to fix certain issues (like failing advertising). 09:56:18 *** stuffcorpse [~rick@121.98.136.241] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 09:57:14 <Hirundo> Can differences in the yapf cache cause desyncs? 09:57:33 *** stuffcorpse [~rick@121.98.136.241] has joined #openttd 09:57:48 <frosch123> hopefully not :) 09:58:05 <TrueBrain> if YAPF caches differ on client and server, desyncs happens 09:58:14 <TrueBrain> (well .. not immediatly, but in the near future) 09:59:25 <Hirundo> OK, thanks for the information 09:59:43 * Hirundo runs and fixes desync in IS 10:00:23 <TrueBrain> last time I did track sharing ... YAPF needed a bit of patching ;) (and became somewhat slower :p) 10:02:42 <Hirundo> some YAPF patching has been done ... but notifying it that tracks have changed wasn't done at all 10:02:53 <TrueBrain> that will cause desyncs for sure :) 10:03:45 *** phidah [~phidah@1305ds3-oebr.0.fullrate.dk] has joined #openttd 10:03:47 <Hirundo> fortunately the refresh algorithm isn't that sophisticated 10:04:15 <TrueBrain> a I-want-to-be-100%-sure-nothing-fucks-up-when-the-track-changes algorithm, if I am not mistaken ;) 10:04:17 *** mikl [~mikl@90.184.195.240] has joined #openttd 10:04:35 <Hirundo> Although I fear... I will have to do more yapf patching, so segments end on owner changes :S 10:05:13 *** orava [~orava@a88-114-52-67.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 10:05:13 *** phidah [~phidah@1305ds3-oebr.0.fullrate.dk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:07:10 *** orava [~orava@a88-114-52-67.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #openttd 10:11:51 *** fjb_ is now known as fjb 10:14:21 *** phidah [~phidah@1305ds3-oebr.0.fullrate.dk] has joined #openttd 10:27:06 <Chris_Booth> hello 10:29:25 <petern> i've not noticed any desyncs with IS2, oddly 10:35:57 *** Vikthor [~novotv6@pc404-9.feld.cvut.cz] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:39:15 *** ohnoitsavram [avram@123-243-10-69.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #openttd 10:43:10 <ohnoitsavram> Query: Cargo destinations/distributions - I have one powerplant A and I have some coal mines X Y Z, if I connect power plant B do I get more coal produced? 10:43:43 <ohnoitsavram> Is there any incentive to connect powerplant B to the network 10:44:01 <Chris_Booth> no 10:44:17 <Chris_Booth> just the fact you will need to run trains from a - b 10:47:11 <ohnoitsavram> Well that's ok cause even in the current game there is no incentive to hook up more than one primary industry other than overloading 10:48:00 <ohnoitsavram> Then query number two: when it comes to passengers, why would I ever build a network, wouldn't it be the most profitable to just set up routes from one point on the map to the point furthest away 10:48:07 <ohnoitsavram> and keep all these routes exclusive 10:48:22 <ohnoitsavram> cause then I have all possible cargo going the furthest possible distance 10:50:34 <Noldo> yes, you are on to something 10:50:52 <ohnoitsavram> where as soon as I add another node to that network I have cargo going there and my profits actually decrease 10:51:45 <Noldo> I really starting to feel like writing the forums post about the different demografies of openttd players 10:53:51 <ohnoitsavram> Unless Unless Unless as I thought originally adding more nodes just means more passengers and cargo, then there's no problem 10:54:16 <ohnoitsavram> but if thats not the case then cargodest is seriously flawed in that it encourages players not to make networks 10:55:17 <fonsinchen> ohnoitsavram: read my last post in the cargodist forum 10:55:43 <fonsinchen> it's easy to implement passenger/cargo supply scaling on top of the linkgraph but I won't do it for now 10:57:04 <ohnoitsavram> I actually haven't used your patch yet but have been doing thought experiments about it in my head 10:57:15 <ohnoitsavram> what do you mean by supply scaling 10:58:37 <ohnoitsavram> Do you mean pre-emptive supply scaling, so things know where they want to go before any route there has been made 10:58:39 <fonsinchen> supply scaling := generate more cargo if more destinations are available. 10:59:08 <ohnoitsavram> How would that work for industries 10:59:30 <fonsinchen> you connect power plant B and get more coal for each coal mine connected. 10:59:38 <ohnoitsavram> Would it bypass the monthly production or would it determine monthly production 10:59:47 <fonsinchen> doesn't matter 11:00:01 <fonsinchen> someone suggested modifying the cargo ratings at the stations 11:00:06 <fonsinchen> that sounds good 11:00:18 <fonsinchen> but you could also modify the production of the industries 11:00:33 <ohnoitsavram> Well it would be silly to have industry A produce 200 tonnes of coal a month but the station being capable of shipping 500 or something 11:00:47 <fonsinchen> you know what cargo rating is? 11:01:04 <fonsinchen> that's those percentage things you see in the station window 11:01:20 <fonsinchen> it determines how much of the produced cargo shows up at the station. 11:01:46 <ohnoitsavram> Yes I see 11:03:00 <ohnoitsavram> But then comes the problem for when station ratings are maxxed out 11:03:21 <fonsinchen> have you ever seen a 100% rating anywhere? 11:03:50 <ohnoitsavram> But I guess that's not even a problem at all 11:03:56 <fonsinchen> also you could artificially keep them low if fewer destinations are available. 11:05:10 <fonsinchen> as I said: that's details. The framework is there. As soon as the link graph is stable and accepted as the way to do things like this, someone can go and write a patch doing supply scaling. 11:05:32 <ohnoitsavram> Well alright but there's nothing wrong with talking about it 11:05:46 <fonsinchen> no, of course not. Did I say that? 11:05:54 <ohnoitsavram> nope :D 11:06:00 *** Sapakara [~chatzilla@84-245-33-124.dsl.cambrium.nl] has joined #openttd 11:06:54 <ohnoitsavram> Station ratings would need to be very low for only one connection 11:07:28 <ohnoitsavram> You don't want it starting with 70% or something and going up by increments of 5% for each node added 11:07:35 <fonsinchen> no one said the scaling is linear. 11:07:56 <fonsinchen> you can make the starting value configurable. 11:08:19 <ohnoitsavram> On larger maps it'd need to be smaller, I'd think 11:08:26 <fonsinchen> and then apply some function to the number of destination to determine the actual rating. 11:08:28 <ohnoitsavram> Ideally the value would depend on possible nodes 11:08:36 <ohnoitsavram> I mena possible destinations 11:08:53 <ohnoitsavram> as in to get a 100% station rating you'd need to have all posible destinations hooked up 11:10:13 <ohnoitsavram> Just as long as you're getting marginal profits for each new destination you hook up the supply scaling is doing its job well 11:10:15 <fonsinchen> Well, personally I'd implement it by modifying the production values as the rating system is fairly fragile. 11:11:37 <ohnoitsavram> Thats a good idea but it might be hard to make compatible with grfs and the like 11:12:36 <ohnoitsavram> It makes economic sense too cause once two suppliers are competing for the same demander they'd both be trying to outdo eachother 11:12:40 <ohnoitsavram> and production would increase 11:15:44 <ohnoitsavram> yeah makes more sense than station ratings 11:16:26 <ohnoitsavram> Is there some kinda base modifier for production increases that grfs call from or do they just put their own values in and aren't affected by ottd source 11:17:42 *** KenjiE20 [~KenjiE20@92.8.220.135] has joined #openttd 11:18:36 <Noldo> connection from competition to more stuff suplied isn't very clear to me 11:19:11 <Noldo> maybe if the prices dropped and that would lead to increased demand 11:19:22 <ohnoitsavram> Well think of it this way 11:19:30 <ohnoitsavram> We have one demander and one supplier 11:19:51 <ohnoitsavram> Its int he suppliers interest to be hitting demand elasticity and produce no more than that 11:19:56 <ohnoitsavram> as that's where he has max revenue 11:20:20 <ohnoitsavram> however as soon as you add a competitor, its in the competitors interest to lower the price and provide the same amount 11:20:40 <ohnoitsavram> in response to this the once-monopolist would have to do the same 11:20:48 <ohnoitsavram> and you would have a lowering of prices and an increase of supply 11:21:02 <ohnoitsavram> on both parts 11:21:21 <ohnoitsavram> generally the mroe competition there is the more there is of every good and the more efficient every competing firm needs to be to stay in the game 11:21:30 <ohnoitsavram> If you can't produce at the low prices you're effed 11:21:31 *** Roujin [~chatzilla@mnch-5d85f20b.pool.einsundeins.de] has joined #openttd 11:21:36 <Roujin> cheers 11:22:42 *** Cybertinus [~Cybertinu@a82-95-167-159.adsl.xs4all.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:23:01 <Roujin> @seen alberth 11:23:01 <DorpsGek> Roujin: alberth was last seen in #openttd 14 hours, 49 minutes, and 43 seconds ago: <Alberth> Hmm, I knew it was a bad idea to stay up and commit stuff :( 11:23:47 <Eddi|zuHause> <Noldo> connection from competition to more stuff suplied isn't very clear to me <- there are very easy examples for that. consider the "browser war". while internet explorer had the competitor netscape, a lot of new browser versions were produced in short time, then IE had a monopoly, and there was almost no improvement for several years. suddenly, a new competitor Firefox appeared and took significant market share, again, there were 11:23:49 <Eddi|zuHause> several new IE versions in short time. 11:24:27 *** thingwath [~thingwath@morana.sks2.muni.cz] has quit [Quit: It's all over.] 11:24:27 <Roujin> hmm.. who else regards himself as an expert about the openttd GUI system? 11:24:56 <Noldo> I'm feeling there is a difference in how coal and browsers work 11:25:09 <Noldo> in the economycal sence that is 11:26:09 <Eddi|zuHause> not in the sense that monopolys generally hurt the customers if they are not regulated 11:26:24 *** Singaporekid [~notme@cm94.psi148.maxonline.com.sg] has joined #openttd 11:26:32 <ohnoitsavram> Consider Coal mine A which is a monopoly 11:26:36 <Noldo> that is true 11:26:39 <ohnoitsavram> it can charge any price it wants right? 11:26:44 <Roujin> is there a way to use a WWT_TEXT widget so it automatically takes up the space it needs (depending on the selected language)? 11:27:23 <Noldo> ohnoitsavram: There need to be a increase in demand anyway 11:27:33 <ohnoitsavram> well yes but there's an optimal price for it to charge cause if it charges to much P(price)*Q(quantity) is smaller than it owuld have been for a price below that 11:27:55 <Roujin> I'm currently working on the content list, planning to introduce filters for each type of content {On/Off} 11:28:36 <ohnoitsavram> the point where it has the most revenue is where the monopolist is going to charge 11:28:55 <ohnoitsavram> As soon as a competitor comes in this point on your supply and demand curve moves to the right 11:29:07 <ohnoitsavram> which means more quantity 11:29:14 <ohnoitsavram> Also if you're not familiar with it 11:29:18 <ohnoitsavram> Say's Law 11:29:23 <ohnoitsavram> Supply creates its own demand 11:29:29 <Roujin> For this I changed the "Tag/name filter" text which is currently just drawn onto the window into a WWT_TEXT widget - drawback is that it may be too small for some languages 11:29:32 <ohnoitsavram> aggregate and real 11:30:24 <ohnoitsavram> yeah your demand curve become smore and more horizontal the more competitors there are 11:30:39 <ohnoitsavram> some economists will tell you it becomes perfectly horizontal in the perfect competition model 11:30:42 <ohnoitsavram> but that's b/s 11:30:47 <ohnoitsavram> but it DOES get more horizontal 11:31:55 *** Cybertinus [~Cybertinu@a82-95-167-159.adsl.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 11:32:21 <Noldo> I've always been a bit sceptical about the supply-side-economics 11:35:18 <ohnoitsavram> the easiest way to think about it is with a falling price more people will be able to buy the said product 11:35:27 <ohnoitsavram> and competition makes prices fall (obviously) 11:36:00 <Noldo> I thought that was what I originally said 11:36:31 *** Dred_furst [~Dred@resnet517.bournemouth.ac.uk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:38:53 <Noldo> but this is a part of the game that really needs some unrealisim because in single player game there is a monopoly of transport services 11:39:18 <ohnoitsavram> Transport services maybe but not industries 11:39:33 <ohnoitsavram> the way I think of it is you are paid for transporting 11:39:41 <ohnoitsavram> but the industries striek deals amongst themselves 11:40:04 *** Dred_furst [~Dred@resnet517.bournemouth.ac.uk] has joined #openttd 11:40:07 <ohnoitsavram> so two coal mines are trying to outbid eachother for the power stations dollar 11:40:16 <ohnoitsavram> but you don't play part in that 11:40:22 <ohnoitsavram> you just transport from a to b 11:40:23 <Noldo> but it might be realistical that the monopolistic transport company doesn't want to connect certain industries 11:40:49 <Noldo> in the original case the coal plant b 11:41:22 <Noldo> connecting is in the interest of the coal mines though 11:41:40 <ohnoitsavram> why isn't it in the interest of the transport company? 11:42:06 <Noldo> there is no money in it 11:42:34 <Noldo> all the coal is already transported to the coal plant and the infrastructure to do that is already paid for 11:42:57 <ohnoitsavram> But you can transport more coal by connecting another mine 11:43:02 <ohnoitsavram> why would you make less money? 11:43:36 <Noldo> that's true, but you can't make more money by connecting another coal plant 11:43:54 <ohnoitsavram> :S howcome you say that 11:44:58 <ohnoitsavram> You charge a tonne of coal lets say cause charging anymore will mean you get less revenue (i.e is monopoly price) 11:45:10 <ohnoitsavram> you connect more coal, the powerplant is happy to have more coal at the same price 11:45:14 <ohnoitsavram> you make more money 11:45:31 <ohnoitsavram> Maybe the price falls a little maybe 11:45:42 <ohnoitsavram> cause of the diminishing utility of extra units of coal to the powerplant 11:46:13 <ohnoitsavram> but it won't fall too much and if it does then it would be in your itnerest to connect another specific factor such as a powerplant 11:46:19 <Noldo> that's true, but you can't make more money by connecting another powerplant 11:46:21 <ohnoitsavram> and put the utility of coal back up 11:46:51 <ohnoitsavram> no you can't 11:47:05 <ohnoitsavram> but but but externalities come into play here 11:47:35 <ohnoitsavram> What I mean is when you hook up another plant you create a competition among suppliers for the coal on the industry side of things (not related to your transport empire) 11:47:35 <Noldo> my hidden asumption seems to be that the one plant can burn it all 11:48:02 <ohnoitsavram> I mean among demanders 11:48:09 <ohnoitsavram> and when there is more demand there is more supply 11:48:31 <ohnoitsavram> So you SHOULD have an incentive to do so both in real world terms and in the game 11:48:49 <ohnoitsavram> that's what I was originaly talking to fonzo about 11:49:05 <Noldo> I agree about the in the game part 11:49:20 <ohnoitsavram> ? 11:49:42 <Noldo> real word is too complicated to agree about anything 11:49:51 <ohnoitsavram> Well in this example 11:50:15 <ohnoitsavram> when you have competition among demanders that raises the price right? 11:50:41 <Noldo> and is increases suply 11:51:23 <ohnoitsavram> Not in the short term 11:51:41 <ohnoitsavram> But in the long term increases in demand increase supply 11:51:47 <ohnoitsavram> if there is competition 11:52:16 <ohnoitsavram> even without competition come to think of it :S 11:55:02 *** Yexo [~Yexo@32-88-ftth.onsneteindhoven.nl] has joined #openttd 11:55:13 <Yexo> hello 11:56:55 <Roujin> hi yexo 12:02:24 <fonsinchen> that's all yadda. Try thinking about balanced gameplay, not about reality. If you create a perfectly realistic game that's unplayable what have you achieved? On the other hand if you create a really weird and unrealistic game which is very interesting to play I can see a utility for that. 12:06:11 <ohnoitsavram> I think giving the player incentive to connect as many industries as possible leads to good gameplay 12:06:31 <ohnoitsavram> It just so happens that it reflects reality, do we need to reject the idea just because it happens to do this? 12:08:22 *** lewymati [~lewymati@aeje1.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #openttd 12:09:10 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-590c394e.pool.einsundeins.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:10:18 <fonsinchen> no, but the discussion about the reality aspects of the idea is irrelevant. 12:14:31 *** Roujin_ [~chatzilla@mnch-5d85f20b.pool.einsundeins.de] has joined #openttd 12:14:46 <ohnoitsavram> Maybe, but it was fun. I already made it clear earlier that I think the best solution to the problem was to make adding destinations increase production 12:15:15 <ohnoitsavram> Then I went on to explain to Noldo how it reflects reality 12:15:28 <ohnoitsavram> Gee talking about all things real is really really taboo around these parts 12:18:40 <petern> you're learning :D 12:20:22 *** Roujin [~chatzilla@mnch-5d85f20b.pool.einsundeins.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 12:20:28 *** Roujin_ is now known as Roujin 12:20:28 * Yexo wonders whether ohnoitsavram has already spotted the channel title 12:20:48 <ohnoitsavram> Yeah I got grilled the other day trying to figure out if the huge maps patch would lead to maps bigger than the surface area of the earth O_O 12:20:52 <planetmaker> hahaha :) 12:20:55 <planetmaker> hello Yexo :) 12:21:05 <Yexo> hi planetmaker :) 12:21:52 <petern> yeah, cos x by y arbitrary size tiles translate to surface area really well ;) 12:22:07 <ohnoitsavram> I assumed they were only one metre! 12:22:11 <ohnoitsavram> hell even if they were only one cm 12:22:28 <petern> good luck with that :D 12:22:35 <Roujin> ah! the content list window has resize step x set to 2 to make the half/half resizing work! what a hack! 12:22:44 <planetmaker> cos y can be anything between -1 and 1 12:22:59 <Roujin> and a nowhere-documented-hack on top of that! :P 12:31:22 <petern> it's self documenting :D 12:37:38 <Roujin> the problem is that I now introduced six buttons on the left half 12:37:58 *** ohnoitsavram [avram@123-243-10-69.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Quit: Bye for now!] 12:38:20 <Roujin> that means each will be resized 1/6th of 1/2th of the resizing amount -> i need to set resize step to 12 or resizing will be borked 12:48:37 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: yexo * r16239 /trunk/src/ai/api/ai_order.cpp: -Fix (r16199): Use the stop/non-stop intermediate orderflags AIs can give for goto-depot orders 12:50:23 <Sacro> Anyone here used VBOs with OpenGL? 12:50:28 <DASPRiD> http://pixcrawler.isp4p.net/.de/2009-02-24-Confessions.png 12:53:07 <Roujin> hm, changing resize step to 12 opens up a can of worms... then the window size (min + default) must also be a multiple of 12... 13:07:38 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-590c394e.pool.einsundeins.de] has joined #openttd 13:09:31 *** Klanticus [~quassel@143.107.231.49] has joined #openttd 13:10:46 <Belugas> [00:37] <csokisnyuszi> let map be at sea-level, place a square water somewhere hidden <--- i had an idea of towns on piles (therfor on water). I guess water world is not that far away... 13:15:03 *** ecke [~ecke@213.195.202.11] has joined #openttd 13:15:21 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: frosch * r16240 /trunk/src/vehicle.cpp: -Fix: Make 'stop in depot'-orders only apply on the target depot, not those which are entered on the way to them. 13:42:43 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: rubidium * r16241 /trunk/src/3rdparty/squirrel/squirrel/sqvm.cpp: -Fix (r16181): regression failing due to wrongly initialised amount of traps 13:50:06 *** Roujin_ [~chatzilla@mnch-5d85f20b.pool.einsundeins.de] has joined #openttd 13:53:19 *** Milloflex [none@h-84-24.A175.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #openttd 13:53:27 *** thingwath [~thingwath@morana.sks2.muni.cz] has joined #openttd 13:54:11 <guru3> wow, if you take the top 10 used words of this channel, you could create an entire sentence 13:55:21 *** Roujin [~chatzilla@mnch-5d85f20b.pool.einsundeins.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 13:55:33 *** Roujin_ is now known as Roujin 13:56:17 <guru3> could think about something because which really should still would 13:56:22 <guru3> makes sense... sort of 13:57:10 *** Dred_furst [~Dred@resnet517.bournemouth.ac.uk] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:57:24 *** Dred_furst [~Dred@resnet517.bournemouth.ac.uk] has joined #openttd 13:59:21 <frosch123> yup, that is said twenty times a day in this channel. no surprise they end up in the top 10 14:04:13 *** divo [~asd@0x3e42e6e6.adsl.cybercity.dk] has joined #openttd 14:04:48 <Milloflex> howdy people 14:05:01 <Milloflex> i was wondering if it is possible to auto-follow a player in spectator mode? 14:05:22 <Milloflex> cause that would be a very good feature to learn others to play the game 14:05:49 <Roujin> there's no information sent to the server where the player is currently viewing 14:06:00 <Milloflex> i see 14:06:17 <Belugas> plus, a player can be in fact multiple users behind the same "company" 14:07:25 <Milloflex> yeah that i know of... just though it would be good to spectate a player directly aswell 14:07:43 <Forked> and a single user can have multiple views 14:07:55 <Milloflex> heh 14:08:12 <Milloflex> yes but yet again not what i'm after 14:08:25 <Aali> its possible to follow a company's actions with the center_company patch 14:08:32 <Belugas> Makes me think of "Being Malkovich" or whatever the title in english :) 14:08:45 <Aali> so you see what they do, but not what they're looking at 14:09:01 <Milloflex> hm seam pretty good 14:09:05 <Milloflex> where do i find this 'patch'? 14:09:55 <Roujin> yeah! no "nested widgets gave different results" message anymore! 14:10:06 <Roujin> man, nested widgets are a hassle :P 14:10:47 <Yexo> initially, yes, but I prefer to build a new gui window with the nested widgets above the old system 14:12:23 <Roujin> yeah, it's true that the old system is unflexible... 14:13:11 *** tkjacobsen [~tkjacobse@wnn72112.wireless.dtu.dk] has joined #openttd 14:14:01 <Belugas> Milloflex, i just had a though: your idea would be perfect too to spy on your opponent (taking for granted that NOW, you can efficiently play) and sabotage his efforts... 14:14:25 <Milloflex> could always be disabled 14:14:34 <Milloflex> dont have to be enabled on public servers 14:14:44 <Milloflex> more for private ones when you learn your friends to play etc 14:15:03 <Progman> Milloflex: there is a patch from the openttdcoop community 14:15:41 <Milloflex> does that mean i need to recompile code? 14:15:58 <Milloflex> or is it a in-game patch? 14:17:03 <Progman> every patch need to recompile the code 14:17:04 <Belugas> in-game patch it not for Openttd, quiote not possible, for nightlies at least.... You have to recompile the code indeed 14:18:26 <Milloflex> oh i see. then its not for me. no hurry with such a feature, just through it would be a good thing to have and that's what brought me here. :- ) 14:18:55 <Milloflex> very cool to see how ttd has developed this past years. was a long time since i've played it now. 14:19:22 <Milloflex> really love the 'online content'. got great potential. 14:21:00 <Milloflex> one other thing. is it possible to magnify the game (kind of "zoom in")? cause i got a pretty big monitor for my computer, and the grafic and texts are a litle small to me in some situations... 14:23:01 <petern> no 14:23:08 <petern> sit closer :D 14:23:13 <Milloflex> heh 14:23:25 <Milloflex> yeah, or use vistas magnifyer ;- ) 14:25:20 *** snorre_ [~snorre@cF6FC00C3.dhcp.bluecom.no] has joined #openttd 14:25:39 <Milloflex> there are some really odd stuff going on with the trains pathfinder... it tells me that a train is lost even though its right on track 14:26:24 <Milloflex> i even have put put some waypoints in the charp turn, but didn't help 14:27:06 *** snorre [~snorre@cF6FC00C3.dhcp.bluecom.no] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:27:24 <Yexo> can you upload a savegame somewhere reproducing that problem? 14:29:44 *** TinoM [~Tino@i59F5DCA6.versanet.de] has joined #openttd 14:30:14 <Milloflex> sure thing 14:33:08 <Milloflex> of course it just stopped happening even though i didn't change anything. ;- ) 14:33:25 <Milloflex> i'll try to catch it next time 14:33:50 <Ammler> Milloflex: don't you use YAPF? 14:33:57 <Milloflex> default settings 14:34:00 <Milloflex> didn't change anything 14:34:06 <Milloflex> just downloaded the game yesterday 14:34:17 <Milloflex> so i have no idea :- ) 14:34:32 <Ammler> maybe the train get lost, because you just changed some track tiles 14:34:43 <Ammler> and fixed it later 14:36:19 *** Cybertinus [~Cybertinu@a82-95-167-159.adsl.xs4all.nl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:38:01 *** Cybertinus [~Cybertinu@a82-95-167-159.adsl.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 14:43:19 *** tokai [~tokai@p54B807CB.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:43:23 *** snorre_ is now known as snorre 14:43:47 *** Roujin [~chatzilla@mnch-5d85f20b.pool.einsundeins.de] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.84 [Firefox 3.0.10/2009042316]] 14:45:37 *** tokai [~tokai@p54B80B37.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 14:45:41 *** mode/#openttd [+v tokai] by ChanServ 14:51:22 *** stuffcorpse [~rick@121.98.136.241] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:52:16 *** Hirundo_ [~chatzilla@5355F5FD.cable.casema.nl] has joined #openttd 14:53:02 *** Klanticus [~quassel@143.107.231.49] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:59:22 *** Hirundo [~chatzilla@5355F5FD.cable.casema.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:03:31 *** kkb110 [~kkb110@c-68-82-181-52.hsd1.de.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:07:11 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: rubidium * r16242 /trunk/src/ (29 files in 5 dirs): 15:07:11 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: -Codechange: rework pausing 15:07:11 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: -Fix [FS#2864]: autopause and manual pausing conflict with eachother 15:07:11 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: -Fix: new game + pause on new game + autopause make the game not unpause on the first join 15:14:09 *** Biolunar [mahdi@blfd-4db00e61.pool.einsundeins.de] has joined #openttd 15:14:59 *** tkjacobsen [~tkjacobse@wnn72112.wireless.dtu.dk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:16:26 *** kkb110 [~kkb110@c-68-82-181-52.hsd1.de.comcast.net] has joined #openttd 15:18:00 <Chruker> Is it possible for the game to utilize additional CPU cores for the AIs? 15:18:06 <petern> no 15:19:13 <Chruker> But would it be trivial to add it? Like starting a new thread for the squirrel engine for each AI (or something like that) 15:19:39 <petern> no 15:21:43 <Progman> Chruker: what about players (in the same multiplayer game with AIs) who don't have a multi core system? 15:22:12 <planetmaker> Progman, that's not an argument. 15:22:19 <Belugas> plus, if it was possible, it would have already been done 15:22:31 <planetmaker> the same could be argued with different processor speeds otherwise. 15:23:30 <Progman> Chruker: http://wiki.openttd.org/Rejected_features#Multithread.2FMulticore_support 15:25:11 <Belugas> bad bad bad devs 15:26:00 <Chruker> progman, there is a huge difference between running the game engine (and all its data structures) as multicore. However the AI script engine should just be calling the game engine using thread safe functions (since it is essentially like a user). 15:26:51 <Belugas> what a marvelous idea 15:27:38 <petern> i'm pretty sure it was tried and removed 15:28:16 <petern> there is no threadsafe way to 'look at the map' 15:33:17 <Belugas> and that has always been the primary reason for no multi-core coding 15:33:45 <petern> there's always the hilarious suggestion of making a copy of the map... 15:33:49 <petern> hehe 15:34:04 <Belugas> :) 15:34:22 <Belugas> funny no one came up with a XML'ed map... 15:34:27 <Belugas> o... yeah...they did... 15:34:41 <Belugas> but for saving, not for using 15:35:06 <Rexxars> 4096x4096 map... <Tile x="3403" y="590"></Tile> 15:35:09 <petern> did they? 15:35:12 <petern> only the suggestion, no? 15:35:18 <Rexxars> that would be a massive XML file :p 15:38:00 <Belugas> yup, only suggestion 15:38:11 <Belugas> luckily 15:39:20 *** Polygon [~Poly@x0581b.wh7.tu-dresden.de] has joined #openttd 15:39:26 *** TheMask96 [martijn@greed.vhost.ne2000.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:44:02 <petern> # jeux sans fronti?res 15:45:10 * Belugas whistles frantically 15:46:03 *** TheMask96 [martijn@greed.vhost.ne2000.nl] has joined #openttd 15:46:14 * totalwormage bites away the last bit of what used to be his nails 15:46:43 <Belugas> how long was it? Hope it was Nine Inch 15:46:58 <totalwormage> hehe 15:47:04 <totalwormage> would've been fun hm ;] 15:47:44 *** Wolle [DrJekyll@p57B0BF2C.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 15:49:37 <Xaroth> hah @ that multicore support topic 15:49:42 <Xaroth> poster posted only once.. that... 15:49:46 <Xaroth> never to be seen from again :P 15:50:17 <petern> those with grand ideas... 15:52:34 <Xaroth> the bigger the idea 15:52:39 <Xaroth> the harder the disappointment :P 15:52:53 <Xaroth> though i do see his idea, somewhat 15:52:58 <Xaroth> he just doesn't know it won't work :P 15:56:25 <petern> ah well, mr ottd+500 spammer hasn't complained yet either 15:56:34 <Xaroth> ..yet 15:56:42 <Xaroth> anyways, time to go home 15:57:17 <petern> "I'll be back next weekend!" ah :D 15:58:13 <petern> # oh biko 15:59:57 <Belugas> # Illamajo, Illamajo 16:00:07 <Belugas> #the man is dead, the man is dead 16:00:25 <petern> # ah ah aaaaaaaaaaaaaah 16:00:29 <petern> # ooooooooh 16:00:35 <Belugas> :D 16:01:08 *** davis` [~iloveme@p5B28DD26.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 16:03:23 <Belugas> i really wonder how far SirXavius will be able to go, this time... 16:03:33 <Belugas> lat time he gained what? a few ground tiles, one industry or so? 16:03:34 <planetmaker> :) 16:03:50 <planetmaker> what? did he really produce something? 16:03:58 <planetmaker> or was he given by others? 16:04:17 <petern> he's able to produced a fuck-load of topics 16:04:20 <petern> -d 16:04:30 <planetmaker> ok. rephrase: 16:04:42 <planetmaker> did he really produce something valuable? 16:05:35 <Chris_Booth> evening all 16:05:44 *** Chris_Booth is now known as Booth 16:05:51 <Belugas> it was given to him by others, planetmaker. of course of course 16:06:12 <planetmaker> he :) 16:06:20 <Belugas> one thing he can produce is indeed vaporware 16:06:25 <Belugas> of course of course 16:06:30 <planetmaker> of course 16:06:37 <Belugas> hey Booth 16:06:43 <Booth> hello 16:06:56 <planetmaker> maybe that's why he's so "elevated" over the real problems for his tasks at had... 16:07:02 <Booth> i promise i wont annoy you all today 16:07:05 <planetmaker> *hand 16:07:15 <Belugas> on the other hand, the least that can be said is that he cares for his ideas. just too bad he only has ideas 16:07:40 <planetmaker> :) 16:07:56 <Belugas> Booth? you annoyed someone? don't remember seen you around. sorry, didnot want to be arsh 16:08:06 <planetmaker> we shall see what will come of it. But I haven't really seen substantial replies. 16:08:25 <Booth> black python 16:08:33 <Booth> the spin off from black adder 16:08:36 <Belugas> [12:09] <planetmaker> maybe that's why he's so "elevated" over the real problems for his tasks at had... <--- yeah... welll... the look at his avatar gives a good idea on the man behind 16:08:36 <planetmaker> Belugas, he's usually hanging around in our channels :P 16:08:46 <planetmaker> hehe, yes Belugas :) 16:09:14 <Booth> i also asked you to hack 127.0.01 16:09:34 <Belugas> hanging around is fine, i don't care :) as long as no connect-disconnect franzy occurs... 16:09:47 <Belugas> Booth ? 16:09:53 <Booth> me 16:10:03 <Belugas> hack 127.0.0.0? 16:10:06 <Belugas> 1 16:10:08 <Belugas> not 0 16:10:14 <Belugas> whatever 16:10:19 <Booth> i know its an IP loop 16:10:32 <Booth> i gave you permision to ahck my PC aswell 16:10:32 <planetmaker> this is weired... 16:10:43 <Booth> and we talked about black adder 16:10:45 * planetmaker will relax, watch and enjoy the firework 16:10:49 <Booth> or subtractor 16:11:12 *** mikl [~mikl@90.184.195.240] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:12:03 *** phidah [~phidah@1305ds3-oebr.0.fullrate.dk] has quit [Quit: phidah] 16:13:25 * Belugas did not remember any of these 16:13:38 * Belugas does not remember any of these 16:13:39 <Booth> i am sure it was you 16:13:57 <Belugas> don't even know what is black adder 16:14:04 <Sacro> black udder? 16:14:11 <Booth> black adder is a british comedy program 16:14:47 <Booth> i also wanted under sea tunnels 16:15:01 *** |Jeroen| [~jeroen@94-224-31-113.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd 16:15:01 <frosch123> Booth: there is no need to hack your computer, belugas is already at the source of your money 16:15:17 <planetmaker> lol :) 16:15:18 <Booth> lol 16:15:28 <Booth> thats good i have no money 16:15:33 <frosch123> exactly 16:15:37 <Booth> i actualy have ?3000 in loans 16:15:41 *** Vikthor [~Vikthor@161-18-80-78.strcechy.adsl-llu.static.bluetone.cz] has joined #openttd 16:15:43 <Booth> and ?1500 overdraft 16:16:14 <planetmaker> frosch123, you mean access to something like that: http://www.cs.ucsb.edu/~seclab/projects/torpig/torpig.pdf 16:17:54 <Belugas> http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=29&t=26092 <-- there... sir xavius earlier project 16:18:27 <frosch123> they do not have any rule of their mail adresses, do they? 16:18:41 <planetmaker> he. ty, Belugas :) read about the same. Just a lot shorter 16:19:19 <planetmaker> at least by quickly skimming through it 16:19:24 <frosch123> ah, that is the thing he meant when he told he started thinking about it years ago 16:19:54 <planetmaker> frosch123, who's "they"? 16:20:19 <frosch123> Belugas: have you read TrueBrain's post in that topic oO 16:20:41 <frosch123> planetmaker: [bstone,marco,sullivan,rgilbert,msz,kemm,chris,vigna]@cs.ucsb.edu 16:21:01 <planetmaker> oh :) 16:21:10 <Booth> i hate wirelss mice 16:21:16 <Booth> that go flat at the wrong time 16:22:20 *** tokai [~tokai@p54B80B37.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Quit: Icebears are cute. Please, take care of them!] 16:22:23 <Belugas> nope, not yet, frosch123 16:22:24 <Xaroth> Belugas: and most of em said 'yes' :P 16:22:31 <Xaroth> next time rig the votes to say no :-) 16:22:32 *** Frostregen [~sucks@dslb-084-058-187-113.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd 16:22:45 <frosch123> "It sounds like a very cool and fun idea :) Work it out and make something of it :) If you need in-depth help, you can always ask me (although I will not help you with programming or what so ever). Also if you need SVN, webpage or access to the compile-farm, just let me know :)" 16:23:03 <frosch123> esp. the "work it out" part :p 16:23:08 <planetmaker> that's what TB wrote? Nice! 16:23:19 <frosch123> Sun Jul 09, 2006 2:05 pm 16:23:26 <planetmaker> :O 16:23:28 <Xaroth> lol 16:23:34 <Xaroth> back in the days he was supportive :P 16:23:37 <Xaroth> now look at him 16:23:42 <Xaroth> "Idea!?!?" ... "NO!" 16:23:44 <frosch123> so we can easily blame TB for all that 16:24:53 <Xaroth> oo, EvE online turned 6 today 16:24:59 <planetmaker> nice to have found scape goat. 16:25:04 <planetmaker> And such a nice one :) 16:28:13 <Belugas> hehe... that is soo TrueBrain :) 16:28:40 <Belugas> but take note, he never said "I'll do it", and that is exactly what SirXavius would love to see happen 16:29:54 *** NukeBuster [~wouter@80.101.115.82] has joined #openttd 16:30:10 <planetmaker> sure :) 16:32:35 *** tokai [~tokai@p54B80B37.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 16:32:38 *** mode/#openttd [+v tokai] by ChanServ 16:33:18 *** fonsinchen [~alve@BAEddf3.bae.pppool.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:37:31 *** const86 [const@tower.mimas.ru] has joined #openttd 16:39:56 *** Frostregen_ [~sucks@dslb-084-058-187-113.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd 16:40:17 *** Hirundo_ [~chatzilla@5355F5FD.cable.casema.nl] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.84 [Firefox 3.0.10/2009042316]] 16:42:04 *** Lachie [whitey@creep.bur.st] has joined #openttd 16:42:31 *** Netsplit synthon.oftc.net <-> larich.oftc.net quits: Bergee, ecke, Lachie_, Frostregen, @Belugas 16:42:36 *** Frostregen_ is now known as Frostregen 16:45:31 *** Netsplit over, joins: Belugas 16:45:31 *** mode/#openttd [+o Belugas] by ChanServ 16:46:35 *** orava [~orava@a88-114-52-67.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 16:46:46 *** Bergee [~bergee@c-68-40-190-70.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has joined #openttd 16:51:21 *** Brianetta [~brian@client-82-3-238-168.glfd.adsl.virgin.net] has joined #openttd 16:53:30 *** Frostregen [~sucks@dslb-084-058-187-113.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: und weg] 16:54:04 *** Klanticus [~quassel@143.107.231.49] has joined #openttd 16:55:42 *** orava [~orava@a88-114-52-67.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #openttd 16:56:11 <Milloflex> why is there two diffrent sets of signals? 16:57:22 <Xaroth> ones are semaphores, others are signals 16:57:31 <Xaroth> the difference, is the existance, or lack, of electricity 16:58:36 *** tokai [~tokai@p54B80B37.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:00:49 *** tokai [~tokai@p54B80516.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 17:00:52 *** mode/#openttd [+v tokai] by ChanServ 17:03:15 *** Brianetta [~brian@client-82-3-238-168.glfd.adsl.virgin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:10:50 *** Klanticus [~quassel@143.107.231.49] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:11:26 <Eddi|zuHause> the answer is: 17:11:32 <Eddi|zuHause> a) they look cute 17:11:51 <Eddi|zuHause> b) there are many more, but only two can be active at the same time 17:13:09 <frosch123> c) you can set the "automatically build semaphores before"-setting to 1492 and never question yourself what signal you just built 17:19:30 *** stuffcorpse [~rick@121.98.136.241] has joined #openttd 17:25:08 *** Klanticus [~quassel@monowall.cisc.usp.br] has joined #openttd 17:29:55 <Ammler> what happens 1492? 17:30:56 <Chruker> the indians lose america 17:32:24 *** Singaporekid [~notme@cm94.psi148.maxonline.com.sg] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:33:27 *** el_en [~lanurmi@dyn-xdsl-83-150-113-243.nebulazone.fi] has joined #openttd 17:33:39 *** davis- [~iloveme@p5B28DB18.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 17:34:31 <Ammler> oh, indeed, expected something ttdish 17:36:42 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@host241-236-dynamic.9-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #openttd 17:36:53 <Wolf01> hello 17:37:15 <el_en> buonasera 17:38:11 <Sacro> buenos nachos 17:40:19 <Eddi|zuHause> Ammler: "random number below any sane start date" 17:40:56 *** davis` [~iloveme@p5B28DD26.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:41:02 <Eddi|zuHause> hm... i really can't play this game without cargodest anymore... 17:41:09 <Ammler> hehe, even random numbers have sense, if frosch uses them. 17:41:42 <Ammler> another strike? 17:43:02 <Ammler> did you try cargod_i_st 17:43:12 <Ammler> ? 17:43:36 <Eddi|zuHause> not yet 17:43:52 <Eddi|zuHause> anyway: http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/1492 17:44:43 *** Brianetta [~brian@client-82-3-238-168.glfd.adsl.virgin.net] has joined #openttd 17:56:09 *** divo [~asd@0x3e42e6e6.adsl.cybercity.dk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:05:34 <csokisnyuszi> hi:) 18:07:29 <Milloflex> in the train details there should be the total lenght of train aswell as total capacity sum of each cargo 18:07:50 <Milloflex> ah, foudn total cargo 18:08:59 <Milloflex> is there a way to default to 'totalt cargo' when opening up the train details? 18:18:47 <petern> no 18:22:47 *** Klanticus [~quassel@monowall.cisc.usp.br] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:27:20 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~Flex@88.130.186.86] has joined #openttd 18:29:26 * Belugas envisions a patch that would save all visual window properties with horror 18:30:54 *** Wolle [DrJekyll@p57B0BF2C.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: http://www.lagerwiki.de - das Wiki rund um's Thema Lager und Logistik] 18:32:33 *** Azrael- [~azraeluk@cpc4-papw2-0-0-cust778.cmbg.cable.ntl.com] has joined #openttd 18:34:21 *** HerzogDeXtEr1 [~Flex@88.130.183.48] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:49:00 * frosch123 envisions a gui that can save its state itself 18:51:16 *** TinoDid is now known as TinoDidriksen 18:56:19 *** Zahl_ [~Zahl@e183149226.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #openttd 19:01:30 <Milloflex> you only need to save the latest train detail windows, or the latest plane detali window... and restore the last used tab 19:01:33 * Eddi|zuHause would like a way to configure the "speed buttons" on the order window 19:02:31 <frosch123> yeah, I guess the hardest part is to decide whether the gui shall be described using xml or using squirrel 19:03:34 *** Zahl [~Zahl@f050214193.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:03:34 *** Zahl_ is now known as Zahl 19:04:14 <Eddi|zuHause> lmao :p 19:05:02 <Eddi|zuHause> a propos... did anything ever come out of the squrirrel-grf thingie? 19:05:26 <Belugas> welll... obviously not in trunk 19:06:05 <Belugas> [14:51] * frosch123 envisions a gui that can save its state itself <- you stole my vision! 19:09:50 <frosch123> and I did not even credit you :p 19:10:28 <Eddi|zuHause> last time i checked, visions did not fall under copyright... 19:11:00 <Belugas> nor under implementations :) 19:11:05 <Belugas> unfortunately... 19:11:18 <frosch123> last time someone claimed right about an idea got flamed on the forums and then decided to pretend it would have been fun :) 19:11:53 <csokisnyuszi> someone knows why time flies so fast? 19:12:12 <Belugas> because of fun? 19:12:22 <csokisnyuszi> :) 19:12:25 <Belugas> because there is wind? 19:15:38 <Milloflex> i think its because we are trying to grasp to much at once 19:16:26 <Belugas> in my case, it's because i'm crumbling under work :S 19:19:58 *** Booth [~chatzilla@82-32-210-243.cable.ubr07.newt.blueyonder.co.uk] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.84 [Firefox 3.0.10/2009042316]] 19:20:30 *** Booth [~chatzilla@82-32-210-243.cable.ubr07.newt.blueyonder.co.uk] has joined #openttd 19:27:11 *** fonsinchen [~alve@BAEddf3.bae.pppool.de] has joined #openttd 19:30:38 <Eddi|zuHause> hm... anyone got a spare RMB? mine is really failing right now... 19:31:05 <Belugas> ReadMyBook? 19:31:11 <Belugas> RightMostBall? 19:31:17 <petern> gah 19:31:28 <petern> laptop not fast enough :d 19:31:52 <Booth> RMB? 19:31:59 <petern> right mouse button 19:32:26 <Booth> i have some elbow greese so you fix the old one 19:33:33 <Booth> that killed the convo 19:34:02 <davis-> :D 19:38:43 <Booth> hello davis 19:40:02 <davis-> hi 19:41:06 <el_en> when will the first international openttd meeting be held? 19:42:04 <frosch123> when? no idea, but if you ask 'where?', then here 19:42:52 <SmatZ> there have been several meetings, just nobody cared to invite you, el_en 19:43:14 <el_en> frosch123: do you mean germany, or some more specific 'here'? 19:43:43 <petern> there was the r10000 meet of may 2007 19:44:00 <el_en> i remember, but was it international? 19:44:16 <petern> dunno 19:44:18 <dihedral> with the fake cake :-P 19:44:24 <frosch123> hmm, that is also an idea, I am right in the middle between smatz and the dutchies, and near enough to an airport for belugas 19:44:32 <petern> and there were the irc developer meetings 19:44:33 <SmatZ> :-D 19:44:36 <petern> they were international... 19:45:01 <Booth> can i get the euro start to where you are? 19:45:08 <Booth> or will i have to use the plane? 19:47:26 <el_en> what about Copenhagen? 19:48:28 <Belugas> this channel is already international... 19:48:39 <Belugas> wat about Montreal? 19:49:13 <frosch123> or at pikka's house 19:49:43 <el_en> Montr?al might be too expensive for poor little europeans. otherwise not a bad idea. 19:49:43 <Belugas> Depends which pikka you're talking about... 19:49:50 <Booth> what about a location incovenient for all of us 19:49:53 <Booth> but very nice 19:49:56 <Booth> such a dubai 19:49:58 <Belugas> tahiti! 19:50:03 <el_en> north korea 19:50:16 <Booth> tahiti it is then 19:50:16 <petern> south pole 19:50:20 <frosch123> I think at pikkabird is already fine 19:50:35 <Belugas> great! I'll bring hy wetsuit :D ICE DIVING!!! 19:50:57 <PierreW> hi, i got 2 train grf's included, but most of the trains do not show up - are there also other grf-types, that could break up train-grf's? 19:50:59 <Booth> dont go to france they might think we are invading 19:51:14 <Booth> no 19:51:34 <Booth> have you activated the mutli train grf option? 19:53:11 <Booth> ooh alpine skiing in the south pole 19:53:17 <PierreW> crap, that one i forgot 19:53:42 *** Bjarni [~Bjarni@0x3ef3a188.virnxx14.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #openttd 19:53:45 *** mode/#openttd [+o Bjarni] by ChanServ 19:53:45 <Eddi|zuHause> i have an idea, everybody gets some football-enthusiastic friends to sponsor a ticket to south africa for the world cup there 19:53:54 <Belugas> PierreW, it might becasue you've not reached the introduction date 19:54:01 <Eddi|zuHause> then we can ignore the football, and have a TTD-meeting instead 19:54:10 <el_en> speaking of the Copenhagen.... 19:54:15 <PierreW> Belugas, i did 19:54:22 <Booth> has that fixed it? 19:54:41 <PierreW> can other (non-train) sets also overwrite train-sets? like tram/bus etc? 19:55:10 <petern> no 19:55:18 <PierreW> hm, weird 19:55:19 <Booth> only trains 19:55:26 <Booth> if they are using the same ID's 19:55:30 <Booth> then they dont work 19:56:08 <petern> el_en, you evil man, you summoned him 19:56:15 <petern> or should that be 'ellen' hehe 19:56:37 <PierreW> k thx for your replies 19:56:50 <Booth> you summoned whom? 19:56:52 <Bjarni> hello nice people 19:56:59 <Booth> black python 19:57:06 <Booth> monty adder 19:57:13 <Bjarni> money adder 19:57:33 <Booth> lol 19:57:46 <Booth> you hacked my pc yet? 19:58:30 <Bjarni> not yet 19:58:36 <Bjarni> I was busy with an exam 19:58:41 <Bjarni> :/ 19:59:04 *** TinoM [~Tino@i59F5DCA6.versanet.de] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 20:00:27 <el_en> petern: it should not. 20:02:15 *** KritiK [~Maxim@78-106-137-136.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #openttd 20:06:07 *** UFO64 [~jmurray@murrayjm8.umeres.maine.edu] has joined #openttd 20:08:36 *** maristo [~maristo@host217-114-156-151.pppoe.mark-itt.net] has quit [Quit: Adia?.] 20:13:27 *** Combuster [~Combuster@82-171-220-59.ip.telfort.nl] has joined #openttd 20:18:45 *** UFO64 [~jmurray@murrayjm8.umeres.maine.edu] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:19:38 *** Biolunar [mahdi@blfd-4db00e61.pool.einsundeins.de] has quit [Quit: gn8] 20:21:59 <TrueBrain> [18:23] <Xaroth> "Idea!?!?" ... "NO!" <- That AINT NICE! :'( 20:24:34 *** |Jeroen| [~jeroen@94-224-31-113.access.telenet.be] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:25:33 <TrueBrain> Xaroth: if anything, I always help out people with subprojects .. for example IS2 .. I hate the idea, I still compile it in the CF! So that is not a nice comment of yours .. pfffffff :p 20:25:46 *** Klanticus [~quassel@143.107.231.49] has joined #openttd 20:26:28 <SmatZ> but there are many people who like it :) 20:26:35 <SmatZ> and users are very important... 20:26:41 <TrueBrain> so? Should I change my opinion because of others? :p 20:27:01 <SmatZ> you are doing the right thing now 20:27:48 <TrueBrain> cool :) What is it? :p 20:27:53 <Booth> true brain dont you like IS2? 20:27:53 <Belugas> let's vote on features! 20:28:16 <Eddi|zuHause> he just said that, why ask again? 20:28:17 * Belugas is personnaly so freaking against it... 20:28:19 <Booth> tunnel to built at a level less that 0M (under sea tunnels) 20:28:57 <TrueBrain> I hate (and really hate) newgrf ... so what? :) I hope I can have my opinion ... although in this world I am not sure about that :) 20:29:11 <Xaroth> [TrueBrain]: Xaroth: if anything, I always help out people with subprojects .. for example IS2 .. I hate the idea, I still compile it in the CF! So that is not a nice comment of yours .. pfffffff :p << har har har 20:29:14 <TrueBrain> but I am very sure that line above will be abused in some conversation saying all devs don't like newgrf ... that always happens :p 20:29:21 <TrueBrain> Xaroth: I am going to kill your servers at Evo! 20:29:26 <TrueBrain> as soon as I found them ..... 20:29:28 <Xaroth> hehe 20:29:33 <Xaroth> one of our servers is called... evo... 20:29:36 <petern> i hate noai :p 20:29:40 <Xaroth> .. and it died the one day i had the day off :P 20:29:55 <TrueBrain> Xaroth: har har! 20:30:06 <TrueBrain> petern: good for you ;) 20:30:08 <Xaroth> yeh, not har har to me, i was queueing for rollercoasters :P 20:30:19 <Xaroth> boss called me 'uh, we have an issue' 20:30:30 <Xaroth> i replied 'yeh, same here, this queue is taking fooking forever' 20:30:34 <Bjarni> <Belugas> let's vote on features! <-- great idea 20:30:35 <Xaroth> .. he didn't like that reply :/ 20:30:38 <TrueBrain> correct reply :) 20:30:38 * Bjarni votes 20:30:55 * SmatZ votes for features 20:31:06 <Booth> i like no GRF game 20:31:11 <Booth> but i love IS2 20:31:37 <Bjarni> SmatZ: I don't think we are supposed to tell what we vote. You know it's kind of like electing a government. You vote for somebody and then you will not tell anybody what you voted 20:31:38 <TrueBrain> I am also pro features! 20:31:40 <TrueBrain> very pro ... 20:32:24 <TrueBrain> Booth: good for you, I hope you enjoy IS2 :) 20:32:40 <Booth> i do and i thank you for it 20:32:45 <Booth> its a great addition 20:32:47 <SmatZ> Bjarni: actually... it doesn't work this way here :) most people say who they voted for... at least among friends :) 20:32:55 <TrueBrain> I believe that I made parts of IS2 ... not sure if they ever used my patch :p 20:32:59 <SmatZ> fooo Lisboa Treaty was accepted by senate :-x 20:33:17 <TrueBrain> (just to highlight the fun in it .. that I dislike a feature I worked on myself ... :p) 20:33:31 <TrueBrain> I am even not 100% sure I like NoAI .. but that is an other story :) 20:33:45 <Booth> what is no ai? 20:33:53 <Bjarni> <SmatZ> fooo Lisboa Treaty was accepted by senate :-x <-- are you surprised? 20:34:01 <TrueBrain> you should stop putting spaces between words ... 'true brain' .. 'no ai' ... 20:34:33 <Bjarni> EU told all member countries to accept it and since some countries had elections which rejected the treaty the new EU order was not to have an election 20:34:35 <SmatZ> Bjarni: it wasn't 100% sure, maybe 75%... 20:34:36 <frosch123> [22:34] <Bjarni> <SmatZ> fooo Lisboa Treaty was accepted by senate :-x <-- are you surprised? <- I am 20:34:55 <Ammler> around 40 downloads for IS2, is that much? 20:35:04 <TrueBrain> that is nothing :s 20:35:13 <TrueBrain> (sorry, not meant in a bad way) 20:35:18 <Bjarni> EU is screwing up atm 20:35:36 <TrueBrain> Ammler: can I suggest to get a dev behind IS2, so it can be put on openttd.org? Mostly gives a slightly bigger crowd 20:36:00 <Bjarni> and is controlling all countries in a way that will eventually make countries leave the union 20:36:09 <TrueBrain> (oh wait .... I already suggested that ... damn, I always repeat myself :) Sorry about that ;)) 20:36:12 <Ammler> or course it would 20:36:26 <TrueBrain> mostly = most likely 20:36:35 <TrueBrain> why do my brains work faster than my fingers?! 20:36:53 <Xaroth> because you have a true... brain? 20:36:55 <Bjarni> TrueBrain: because you are on speed? 20:37:04 <petern> i've been playing IS2 20:37:06 <Xaroth> wait, scratch that, i agree with Bjarni :P 20:37:06 <petern> it has issues 20:37:15 <Bjarni> maybe I shouldn't joke about that 20:37:17 <TrueBrain> Xaroth: are you ... sure? 20:37:27 <TrueBrain> petern: doesn't all 'great new features' have? :) 20:37:46 <Ammler> petern: in "gameplay" or codewise? 20:38:00 <Bjarni> last time I joked about it the target for the joke started telling about his experience with speed and other drugs and he assummed that everybody did drugs regularly :s 20:38:03 <petern> gameplay mostly 20:38:19 <petern> some simple technical things 20:38:24 <petern> some impossible social things 20:38:45 <Booth> what are the issues? 20:38:45 <TrueBrain> haha, the social aspect .. always a bitch :) 20:38:53 <Booth> we havent found them in our testing yet 20:38:58 <Ammler> hmm, devs aren't around. 20:39:11 <Ammler> (of IS2) 20:39:19 <petern> sharing costs aren't affected by inflation 20:39:25 <Booth> we found that 20:39:37 <Booth> but you just raise them yuor self 20:39:41 <TrueBrain> [22:38] <Booth> we havent found them in our testing yet 20:39:42 <TrueBrain> [22:39] <Booth> we found that 20:39:45 <petern> TrueBrain, good isn't it 20:39:47 <TrueBrain> that should be a bash quote :) 20:39:56 <Ammler> Booth: and you did report it? 20:40:04 <Booth> planetmaker did 20:40:05 <petern> Booth, you can but there's a limit 20:40:12 <Ammler> or was Swallow around? 20:40:23 <petern> when inflation is really high you still basically give your stuff away, heh 20:40:29 <Booth> i just said planetmaker reported it 20:40:40 <Booth> well inflation works at 1.03 20:40:53 <Ammler> IRC has sometimes lags, sorry ;-) 20:41:03 <Booth> unless you play for millions of year you will never reach a limit as far as i can see 20:41:21 <Yexo> inflation is capped at 180 years iirc 20:41:37 <TrueBrain> oeh, a Yexo!!! :) Hello Yexo :) 20:41:46 <Yexo> hello TrueBrain :) 20:41:51 <petern> even so, everything else tracks inflation... 20:41:51 <TrueBrain> how are you doing? :) 20:42:03 <Yexo> I'm fine now :) 20:42:13 <Yexo> have some time for openttd again :) 20:42:15 <petern> possibly finer controls are desired on who can do what, and how much is costs them 20:42:21 <TrueBrain> always a good thing ;) 20:44:18 <Booth> when is cargo dest going into trunk (if ever),(if it has a date) 20:44:25 <Yexo> when it's done 20:44:27 <TrueBrain> when it is done :) 20:44:28 <Booth> ? 20:44:33 <TrueBrain> oeh, I love saying that :) Can't get enough of that :) 20:44:42 <petern> i'd say 20:44:44 <petern> IF it is done 20:44:48 <Eddi|zuHause> <Bjarni> SmatZ: I don't think we are supposed to tell what we vote. You know it's kind of like electing a government. You vote for somebody and then you will not tell anybody what you voted <- wait... i learned that you tell everyone what you voted and if it is the wrong vote, you will get all kinds of visits that will convince you to change your vote... 20:44:55 <Eddi|zuHause> is that not how it works? 20:46:11 <Bjarni> that is how it works if you are stupid enough to tell who you voted for 20:46:41 <PierreW> is 0.9 the newest version of DBset? 20:47:02 <frosch123> I have a newgrf labeled dbsetxl 0.9 :) 20:47:22 <PierreW> only have 0.82 and don't knwo where to fetch a newer one 20:47:42 <Bjarni> if somebody calls you and tell they are making a survey and ask you who you voted for then I have been informed that they have "interesting" questions after being told which party you voted for last time 20:47:59 <Yexo> frosch123: that one isn't a publicly available version, right? 20:48:01 <frosch123> PierreW: search for dbsetxl ecs extension, then you have the newest stuff of it 20:48:10 <Bjarni> like they assume no education if you vote for certain parties 20:49:02 <petern> tell? 20:49:09 <frosch123> Yexo: it is some test newgrf with a single engine I got somewhere, where the author was to lazy to replace the title, and iirc it was publicity available 20:49:10 <petern> here they know who you voted for anyway... 20:49:22 <Bjarni> they know? 20:49:23 <Bjarni> how? 20:49:39 <Belugas> # He knows you know 20:49:42 *** lewymati [~lewymati@aeje1.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [] 20:49:43 <Ammler> grfcodec -d dbset.grf && cat sprites/dbset.nfo | sed s/0.82/0.9/ > sprites/dbset0.9.nfo && grfdocec -e dbset.grf or something like that. 20:49:45 <petern> it all has tracking numbers on 20:50:33 <Yexo> cat sprites/dbset.nfo | sed <- that's so useless, sed can input from files itself 20:50:34 <Bjarni> isn't that violating the principle about anonymity at elections? 20:50:52 <TrueBrain> Yexo: convention :) To keep the pipe clear :) 20:50:54 <frosch123> Ammler: maybe "sed -i 's/0.82/0.9 /' dbsetxlw.grf" also works :p 20:50:54 <Ammler> :-D I said something like that 20:51:36 <Bjarni> http://www.worldnetdaily.com/images2/iraqballot.gif <-- if everybody knows who you voted for then you will end up like this 20:51:44 <petern> no doubt the excuse is it's used to prevent voting fraud... 20:51:45 <Eddi|zuHause> <Bjarni> that is how it works if you are stupid enough to tell who you voted for <- well, in "real democracies", i.e. in ones that have "democratic" in their name, the voting cabin is just there "pro forma", and when you make a single step towards it, your name gets written down, as it is likely that you voted with "no" then :p 20:51:47 <Yexo> TrueBrain: I still don't like those useless uses of cat 20:52:17 <TrueBrain> Yexo: I always use it :) As I tend to postfix or prefix a grep or something in it later on 20:52:38 <Yexo> I can see some uses for it, but not in this case 20:52:53 <Bjarni> Eddi|zuHause: single step? 20:52:54 <Vikthor> Eddi|zuHause: That's also true for "democracies" have word socialistic in the name :) 20:52:55 <TrueBrain> as I said: convention .. that is what it is for me 20:54:12 <TrueBrain> habbit .. would fit too :p 20:55:06 <Eddi|zuHause> Yexo: the problem is, when you do not use "cat", the filename is at the end of the command, so when you want to change the replacement/search/whatever command, you have a lot of cursor movement 20:55:13 <Yexo> it works, and that's what counts most of the time for those simple bash scrits 20:55:45 <Eddi|zuHause> like "grep <pattern> <filename>" vs. "cat <filename> | grep <pattern>" 20:56:04 <Eddi|zuHause> you reverse the order, and can access the pattern more easily on the command line 20:56:07 <Yexo> true, then I use it sometimes myself too 20:56:47 <Eddi|zuHause> often those command lines grow incrementally 20:56:57 <TrueBrain> pipes .. you got to love them :) 20:56:59 <Xaroth> grep <pattern> <filename> | less 20:57:15 <TrueBrain> cat <filename> | grep <pattern> | less 20:57:19 <Xaroth> or that 20:57:21 <TrueBrain> I always fuck up the pattern .. rarely the filename :p 20:57:48 <Xaroth> and never the less :) 20:58:04 <Yexo> so put the less before grep too :p 20:58:11 <TrueBrain> wish that worked .... :( 20:58:16 <TrueBrain> worked = works 20:58:21 <TrueBrain> wish = wishes 20:58:23 <TrueBrain> oh, I give up 20:58:25 <SmatZ> :( 20:59:02 <Eddi|zuHause> you should pipe your thoughts through sed ;) 20:59:11 <TrueBrain> mind controlled computers ... 20:59:14 <TrueBrain> not far away 20:59:32 <Xaroth> mind controlling computers, just as far away :P 20:59:41 <csokisnyuszi> hi 20:59:42 <csokisnyuszi> :) 20:59:50 <Xaroth> hi 20:59:51 <Xaroth> o_O 21:00:46 <csokisnyuszi> tried 2048x2048 map 21:00:50 <csokisnyuszi> looking forward for lev-5 maglev breaking mach-1 with a sonic boom and lev-6 @ mach-2 and lev-7 @ mach-3 21:01:06 <TrueBrain> you already said that once ... 21:01:16 <Booth> lev-7? 21:01:19 <csokisnyuszi> yep :) 21:01:26 <Booth> you own trains? 21:01:43 <Xaroth> to be exact, you said the exact same 15 hours ago O_O 21:01:48 <Belugas> he owns a train? man.. what a rich guy... 21:01:57 <csokisnyuszi> didn't know everybody logs 21:01:58 <TrueBrain> Belugas: I own trains too ... very small ones 21:02:12 <Belugas> hey... got a few millions to spare? we'd like to buy back the rights of TTD 21:02:17 <Booth> i own HO scale trains 21:02:17 <Belugas> booh... 21:02:20 <Xaroth> csokisnyuszi: you're in a channel full of geeks (and geekettes) ... ofcourse we log 21:02:30 <csokisnyuszi> ;> 21:02:32 <Belugas> my son owns THOMAS trains! 21:02:37 <TrueBrain> well .. all he knows for sure I log :p 21:02:40 <csokisnyuszi> Belugas, sure, just bought 71 aeroplanes 21:02:48 <TrueBrain> Belugas: mwhahahahaha :p 21:03:10 <csokisnyuszi> but i like maglev trains more 21:03:13 <Booth> how much are the copy rights to ttd? 21:03:19 <Belugas> csokisnyuszi, just in gold. only need one plane... 21:03:24 <Xaroth> Booth: how much? 21:03:27 <Xaroth> 1. 21:03:32 <Booth> 1? 21:03:40 <Belugas> Booth, no one even know who have the rights 21:03:52 <Booth> chris saywer? 21:03:57 <Xaroth> there's no value to 'copyright' ... it doesn't have a set value. 21:03:59 <Belugas> done snot look like it 21:04:12 <Booth> does the copy right even stand anymore? 21:04:18 <Booth> hasnt it run out? 21:04:25 <Belugas> technically yes, they are still valid 21:04:25 <TrueBrain> stop putting spaces between words where they don't belong! 21:04:29 <Eddi|zuHause> noone is admitting to own the rights because it would cause a legal debate on who REALLY owns the rights 21:04:40 <Eddi|zuHause> and neither side sees it worth the effort 21:04:58 <Eddi|zuHause> so the situation is unlikely to change 21:05:02 <petern> run out? no, ttd is not yet 50/70 years old... 21:05:27 <TrueBrain> Eddi|zuHause: not really ... there is only a debate who owns the distribution rights 21:05:30 <Belugas> gottagobye 21:05:33 <petern> or is it life + 50 years... never mind 21:05:37 <Xaroth> er 21:05:42 <TrueBrain> Belugas: bye :) 21:05:42 <Xaroth> US copyright used to be 14/28 years 21:05:49 <Yexo> bye Belugas 21:05:58 <TrueBrain> Xaroth: wasn't CS from uk? 21:06:02 <Yexo> petern: it's that I think 21:06:09 <Eddi|zuHause> european copyrights are usually life of the author + 70 years 21:06:10 <dihedral> Yexo, i like your post ^^ 21:06:12 <TrueBrain> copyright law changed, didn't it? 21:06:22 <Xaroth> it changed several times 21:06:23 <TrueBrain> in US I believe ..read something about that this week ... 21:06:38 *** worldemar [~world@62.106.106.126] has joined #openttd 21:06:45 <Xaroth> http://uspolitics.about.com/od/electionissues/a/copyright.htm 21:06:48 <Eddi|zuHause> the european commission changed the performer's rights recently 21:06:49 <TrueBrain> either way, CS has most of the rights, that is for sure 21:06:56 <Yexo> dihedral: the one to Alain? all you said was true, but I feared he'd take only the negative points again 21:07:08 <Xaroth> A work that is created on or after January 1, 1978, is automatically protected from the moment of its creation for the period of the author's life plus an additional 70 years after the author's death. 21:07:19 <csokisnyuszi> everybody here only plays OpenTTD ? 21:07:26 <TrueBrain> yes, only, we play no other games 21:07:30 <TrueBrain> we signed an agreement for that 21:07:33 <Xaroth> Works for hire or those published anonymously are protected for 95 years from date of publication or 120 years from date of creation, whichever is the shorter period. 21:07:37 <Xaroth> according to that page. 21:07:42 *** Azrael- [~azraeluk@cpc4-papw2-0-0-cust778.cmbg.cable.ntl.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:07:51 <dihedral> Yexo, yeah ^^ 21:08:04 <TrueBrain> so games ar enot running out any time soon :p 21:08:11 <dihedral> though i must say, i enjoyed "i cannot say you did not come very far - that'd be wrong - you started from 0 and got to 1 (on a scale from 1 to 10)" 21:08:16 <Xaroth> so technically, by that, it'd mean that copyright runs out in 2048 at it's earliest 21:08:26 <Xaroth> and that's only if CS made it in 78, and died shortly after.... 21:08:38 <TrueBrain> neither are true :) 21:08:41 <Xaroth> exactly 21:08:55 <Xaroth> expect.. somewhere around 2079 at earliest :P 21:09:12 <TrueBrain> but we are only interested in the distribution rights 21:09:20 <TrueBrain> then we can supply the ttd-graphic files with it 21:10:04 <Wolf01> 'night all 21:10:08 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@host241-236-dynamic.9-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.] 21:10:08 <csokisnyuszi> i thought there is an open graphiic set already available 21:10:13 <TrueBrain> not finished 21:10:44 <csokisnyuszi> oh i see 21:11:07 <Booth> why not just replace all game graphics with sets (such as DB set) 21:11:17 <TrueBrain> go ahead :) 21:11:25 <Booth> or the added TTO graphics 21:11:48 <Xaroth> TTO graphics have the same copyright issues as the TTD graphics 21:11:52 <Xaroth> so don't bother with those 21:12:35 <csokisnyuszi> what do you think about including truecolor photographs with alpha channel in the game for graphics? 21:12:36 *** Frostregen [~sucks@dslb-084-058-187-113.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd 21:12:37 <Booth> how does ttdpatch work with the graphics? 21:12:50 <Xaroth> csokisnyuszi: good luck :) 21:12:56 <TrueBrain> csokisnyuszi: photographs?! 21:12:56 <Xaroth> Booth: what graphics? 21:13:06 <TrueBrain> either way, 32bpp is already supported, including alpha channel ... 21:13:06 <Booth> just use the original game graphics? 21:13:09 <Xaroth> TTDPatch is just a program to 'alter' the original game 21:13:27 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1F202.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:13:28 <Booth> isnt that all openttd is? 21:13:32 <csokisnyuszi> TrueBrain, yep, ? thought real photos instead of drawings 21:13:38 <TrueBrain> good luck! 21:13:39 <Ammler> it does patch the original binary. 21:13:39 <Xaroth> no, ottd doesn't 'alter' the original game 21:13:41 <TrueBrain> would be butt-ugly 21:13:44 <TrueBrain> but good luck! :) 21:13:45 <Xaroth> it re-creates/re-does it 21:14:12 <Booth> aah i see 21:14:21 <Booth> sorry if i just upset people for not knowing 21:14:39 <Xaroth> it's better to not know and be open about it, and not know and pretend to know 21:15:05 <TrueBrain> we have enough of the latter .... 21:15:18 <Ammler> the current 32bpp graphics are very nice. 21:15:23 <csokisnyuszi> TrueBrain, sure game hacking is advanced ;> 21:15:39 <TrueBrain> huh? 21:15:44 <Xaroth> advanced is a relative term 21:15:50 <Booth> what even happened to the 3D stuff smatz was working on? 21:15:59 <csokisnyuszi> is it advanced to park a taxi on the wall? 21:16:09 <Xaroth> depends on the wall 21:16:17 <csokisnyuszi> vertical 21:16:28 <TrueBrain> depends on the size of the taxi 21:16:32 <Xaroth> and the environment 21:16:34 <TrueBrain> I have no problems putting a 3cm taxi on the wall 21:16:43 <Booth> bluetac 21:17:01 <Booth> i could put any taxi on any wall aslong as it was made from iron or steel 21:17:10 <Booth> with my mega electro magnet 21:17:21 <csokisnyuszi> http://matrix.ratesz.hu/mean/gta3/index.html 21:17:50 <Xaroth> .. gta3 21:18:29 <Booth> that is stupid 21:20:08 <Booth> GTA is a great game with out patches 21:20:18 <TrueBrain> stop with those spaces! Grr ... 21:20:26 <Xaroth> TrueBrain: har har 21:20:36 <Booth> what spaces? 21:20:40 <TrueBrain> 'with out' 21:20:42 <TrueBrain> 'true brain' 21:20:44 <TrueBrain> 'copy right' 21:20:45 <csokisnyuszi> without spaces 21:20:51 <TrueBrain> and there was an other one ... 21:20:52 <Booth> cail down 21:20:57 <petern> yeah 21:20:59 <petern> "an other" :p 21:21:07 <TrueBrain> petern: yeah :) But at least I am consistent :p 21:21:21 <Booth> i am consistent 21:21:23 <Booth> i cant spell 21:21:29 <TrueBrain> consistantly wrong :p 21:21:31 <TrueBrain> har har 21:21:32 <csokisnyuszi> another world is just cool 21:21:36 <TrueBrain> (I am a pirate!) 21:21:58 <csokisnyuszi> pirate bay 21:22:05 <Chruker> will the AIRail.BuildNewGRFRailStation function always work, regardless of whatever graphics and settings the user have? 21:22:07 <TrueBrain> do they say Har Har? 21:22:23 <Xaroth> TrueBrain: pirate as in http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZLsJyfN0ICU ? 21:22:33 <Booth> knock knock 21:23:01 <jonty-comp> < TrueBrain> consistantly wrong :p <-- *consistently 21:23:06 <Booth> (omg not lazy town) 21:23:22 <Xaroth> nothing wrong with lazytown.. the girl's legal ffs :P 21:23:25 <Booth> knock knock 21:23:27 <jonty-comp> LAZY TOWN 21:23:40 <jonty-comp> bing bang diggiriggidong 21:23:46 <Booth> knowone want to hear my joke 21:23:49 <Booth> :'( 21:25:02 <TrueBrain> now I am out of candy .... 21:25:14 <Booth> oh well poor you 21:25:35 *** Frostregen [~sucks@dslb-084-058-187-113.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: und weg] 21:26:32 <csokisnyuszi> not neccesarily complicated combination of constant consistency 21:26:56 <TrueBrain> nice alliteration (is that the correct english translation? :)) 21:28:02 <Yexo> you just replaced 'ie' with 'ion' and hoped it was english too? :p 21:28:14 <TrueBrain> yeah :p It sounded okay ;) 21:28:29 *** Milloflex [none@h-84-24.A175.priv.bahnhof.se] has left #openttd [] 21:32:13 <TrueBrain> ARgh .... I hate it when series stop when it is just getting good!!! (was watching Fringe) 21:32:44 <csokisnyuszi> reason why serial killers don't stop 21:32:55 <TrueBrain> cruwl comparising ... 21:33:53 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, watch Dexter instead :p 21:39:25 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: yexo * r16243 /trunk/src/ai/api/ (ai_tunnel.cpp ai_tunnel.hpp): -Fix [FS#2875]: CmdBuildTunnel could be called with invalid parameters from the api code, causing crashes later 21:41:00 <TrueBrain> Windows 7 MCE is much better than Windows Vista MCE 21:41:03 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: yexo * r16244 /trunk/src/ai/api/ai_tunnel.cpp: -Fix [NoAI]: Make sure AITunnel::BuildTunnel returns what the documentation says it does 21:48:32 *** worldemar [~world@62.106.106.126] has quit [Quit: An exit status of zero indicates success, and a nonzero value indicates failure.] 21:48:47 <TrueBrain> so who killed this conversation? 21:48:57 <Xaroth> I'd say Eddi 21:49:02 <TrueBrain> I tend to agree 21:56:31 *** Nite_Owl [~Nite_Owl@c-76-109-51-190.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has joined #openttd 21:56:51 <Nite_Owl> Hello all 21:57:02 *** nightstalker [~Alex@p5495435E.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 21:57:03 <TrueBrain> hello Nite_Owl 21:57:17 <Nite_Owl> Hello TrueBrain 21:57:30 <Ammler> hg has at least better initial usage, a 500k bzr repo is only 200k converted to hg. 21:57:45 *** nightstalker [~Alex@p5495435E.dip.t-dialin.net] has left #openttd [] 21:57:53 <Ammler> i hope that will change with size. 21:59:36 <TrueBrain> Ammler: repos sizes of such decentralized vcses is a bit tricky 21:59:39 <Ammler> oh, it has no work copy 21:59:45 <TrueBrain> ;) 22:00:03 *** Bjarni [~Bjarni@0x3ef3a188.virnxx14.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:00:41 *** Klanticus [~quassel@143.107.231.49] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:04:11 <TrueBrain> well ... boring :) Night all!! 22:04:25 <csokisnyuszi> what do you think about making openttd an alien vs predator type grafx 3d game? 22:04:26 <Nite_Owl> later TrueBrain 22:04:53 <Ammler> but bzr without work dir is still 10% bigger 22:06:22 *** Cybertinus [~Cybertinu@a82-95-167-159.adsl.xs4all.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:09:07 *** Cybertinus [~Cybertinu@a82-95-167-159.adsl.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 22:09:10 *** Cybertinus [~Cybertinu@a82-95-167-159.adsl.xs4all.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:09:12 <Forked> what happend to the +500 threads? 22:10:06 <Eddi|zuHause> maybe they went 500 years into the future 22:10:08 <Nite_Owl> someone stuck a fork in them 22:12:14 <Yexo> someone merged them to one topic 22:12:22 <Yexo> http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=43449 22:14:03 <Forked> poor mod :) 22:14:31 <Ammler> he should rather merge it to wiki 22:14:51 <Ammler> (the author, I mean) 22:17:31 <Yexo> he should start working on it (making sprites I mean) 22:19:28 *** Polygon [~Poly@x0581b.wh7.tu-dresden.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:21:45 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: rubidium * r16245 /branches/0.7/src/ (7 files in 4 dirs): 22:21:45 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: [0.7] -Backport from trunk: 22:21:45 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: - Fix: Hardcoded (old sized) MAX_COMPANIES constant (r16182) 22:21:45 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: - Fix: Do not try to reserve path for trains crashed in station [FS#2866] (r16178) 22:21:45 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: - Fix: Forbid joining AI companies via the 'move' and 'join' console commands/multiplayer lobby (r16176, r16175) 22:21:45 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: - Fix: The overflowsafe type did not like dividing by int64 larger than MAX_INT32 causing division by negative numbers and small anomolies when drawing graphs [FS#2855] (r16130) 22:23:23 <Eddi|zuHause> preparing a 0.7.1? 22:23:39 <Nite_Owl> I just had the same thought 22:23:45 <Xaroth> 0.8 22:25:03 <csokisnyuszi> btw a teleport gate would mess the gameplay? ;> 22:25:08 <Nite_Owl> 0.8 which just be branched off from the current trunk not backported 22:25:27 <Xaroth> csokisnyuszi: stabbing a spork in your eye will mess your eyesight? :) 22:26:20 <Nite_Owl> spork - spork 22:26:30 <Eddi|zuHause> csokisnyuszi: every change messes with gameplay. what you really should ask is if you can get it balanced somehow, to make it interesting for players 22:27:42 <Nite_Owl> pardon my bad impression of The Muppets Swedish chief 22:27:58 <Eddi|zuHause> the what? 22:28:15 <csokisnyuszi> sure it would be interesting, make teleport station at one edge of the map, and at other edge, people step in, then step out at the other station 22:28:15 *** Zantor64 [46ed808a@webchat.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 22:28:29 <Zantor64> anyone here? 22:28:34 <Nite_Owl> let me see if I can find a reference 22:28:35 <Eddi|zuHause> no. 22:28:43 <Eddi|zuHause> these are not the droids that you search 22:28:48 <Eddi|zuHause> move along 22:28:49 <Zantor64> lol 22:28:53 <csokisnyuszi> ;>> 22:29:11 <Zantor64> I am seeking railroad junction help 22:29:35 <Eddi|zuHause> shoot... 22:29:40 <Zantor64> I am replacing a conventional roundabout with something more sophisticated as to reduce gridlock 22:29:49 <Zantor64> if I have my trains staggered right I don't get it but now and again it happens 22:29:56 <Zantor64> problem is 22:30:22 <Zantor64> on one of the ends of the junction I have a 6-platform terminus station 22:30:31 <Xaroth> Zantor64: http://www.openttdcoop.org/wiki/Junctionary might help a bit 22:30:32 <Nite_Owl> Oops - bad spelling - Chef 22:30:36 <csokisnyuszi> heheh 22:30:36 <Xaroth> has some nice junctions 22:30:43 <csokisnyuszi> ? think ? will make some screenshots 22:30:51 <Zantor64> ok 22:31:19 <Zantor64> well I have 3 platforms on one set of in/out tracks and 3 more on another set of in/out tracks and I was wondering how I could reduce it without holding up traffic 22:31:28 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-590c394e.pool.einsundeins.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:31:35 <Eddi|zuHause> i don't know, my junctions never look like the openttdcoop ones... 22:32:04 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: rubidium * r16246 /branches/0.7/ (16 files in 5 dirs): (log message trimmed) 22:32:04 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: [0.7] -Backport from trunk: 22:32:04 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: - Fix: [Squirrel] the traps variable wasn't restored, causing try/catch blocks to be 'forgotten' during a suspend (r16181) 22:32:04 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: - Add: [NoAI] Two new error codes to AITile: ERR_AREA_ALREADY_FLAT and ERR_EXCAVATION_WOULD_DAMAGE (r16171) 22:32:04 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: - Add: [NoAI] AITile::Get(Min|Max|Corner)Height (r16166) 22:32:05 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: - Add: [NoAI] Several functions to AIOrder to check the what kind of order an order is [FS#2801] (r16165) 22:32:07 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: - Fix: [NoAI] AIOrder::GetOrderDestination and AIOrder::GetOrderFlags didn't work on ORDER_CURRENT when the vehicle was loading/leaving in a station (r16165) 22:32:22 *** tokai [~tokai@p54B80516.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:32:24 <csokisnyuszi> heheh 22:32:26 <csokisnyuszi> http://www.openttdcoop.org/wiki/Image:JunctionaryBBH4.png 22:32:34 <csokisnyuszi> wow that's some insane junction 22:32:46 <Xaroth> i've seen worse 22:33:03 <Zantor64> http://mibbit.com/up/gzDNxYc2.bmp here is a pic of what I'm working on; I used cheats to get a sawmill out of the way 22:33:17 <Zantor64> but no other cheats have been used 22:33:29 <Nite_Owl> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZOKUdMr95Ig Swedish Chef 22:33:41 <Eddi|zuHause> bmp? wtf? 22:33:59 <Zantor64> what? 22:34:03 <Eddi|zuHause> NEVER EVER push BMPs through the internet 22:34:04 <Zantor64> can you not read it? 22:34:12 <Zantor64> jeez 22:34:12 <csokisnyuszi> hehehe 22:34:12 <Xaroth> the intertubes will be clogged! 22:34:17 <Zantor64> I never knew that 22:34:19 <Eddi|zuHause> use PNG 22:34:19 <Zantor64> plus it's nto all that big 22:34:23 <Zantor64> I'll do a png then 22:34:26 <Eddi|zuHause> openttd produces them by itself 22:34:36 <csokisnyuszi> ? pulled it down using gigabit 22:34:44 <Eddi|zuHause> in the game settings, you can chose the screenshot format 22:34:49 <Zantor64> done 22:34:49 <Eddi|zuHause> then press ctrl+s 22:35:04 <Zantor64> I'm not totally unfamiliar with the game. I've been playing it off and on since christmas 22:35:25 <Zantor64> http://mibbit.com/up/BmfXplQw.png here 22:35:41 <Eddi|zuHause> now compare the file sizes ;) 22:35:42 <Zantor64> see the 4 tracks on the north side? that's what I'm trying to figure out what to do with 22:35:51 <Zantor64> I noticed just in the upload, Eddi 22:36:12 <Zantor64> :D 22:36:29 <Zantor64> I considered an advanced roundabout but I thought that a Star would do better 22:37:33 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: rubidium * r16247 /branches/0.7/src/ (11 files in 3 dirs): (log message trimmed) 22:37:33 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: [0.7] -Backport from trunk: 22:37:33 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: - Fix: [NoAI] Make sure AITunnel::BuildTunnel returns what the documentation says it does (r16244) 22:37:33 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: - Fix: [NoAI] CmdBuildTunnel could be called with invalid parameters from the API code, causing crashes later [FS#2875] (r16243) 22:37:33 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: - Fix: [NewGRF] ActionB should use the online parameters from GRFFile instead of 22:37:35 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: the initial user-specified values from GRFConfig. Also use the values as they 22:37:37 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: were set when the ActionB was executed, not as they are set when the message is 22:38:01 <Zantor64> I don't always consider compressed formats because I occasionally scan photographs at 600x600dpi 22:38:17 <csokisnyuszi> go round and roud is cool until all trains fit in it 22:38:25 <Eddi|zuHause> things you have to ask with that kind of junction: do trains really need to get from every entrance to every exit? which directions do the most trains take? 22:38:33 <Zantor64> I have 23 trains 22:38:52 <Zantor64> most frequent are east, west, and north (north being upper-right) 22:39:12 <Eddi|zuHause> directions are always "from-to" 22:39:41 <Zantor64> well I wouldn't have a six platform station if I didn't need it 22:39:49 <Zantor64> to and from the big station is frequent 22:39:51 <Eddi|zuHause> you have 5 bidirectional entrances into your junction 22:39:58 *** fonsinchen [~alve@BAEddf3.bae.pppool.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:40:02 <csokisnyuszi> i guess train's AI searches a path to the destination, and takes the nearest free path 22:40:05 <Zantor64> two of which go to the same station 22:40:21 <Zantor64> I had to split it cuz I was getting bottlenecks 22:40:30 <Zantor64> otherwise I'd only have one set 22:41:15 <Zantor64> http://mibbit.com/up/TjET5j6R.png this is what it looked like before 22:41:42 <Eddi|zuHause> then, why do you use a LRLR setup? an LLRR setup might reduce the number of trains which will have to cross, or you don't need every entrance to be able to reach both station exits 22:41:49 <Eddi|zuHause> would simplify your junction 22:42:36 <Zantor64> http://mibbit.com/up/fBUNs03g.png this is what the station looks like for reference 22:43:16 <Xaroth> why not convert it to just 1 entry/exit line? 22:43:20 <csokisnyuszi> Zantor64, http://www.openttdcoop.org/wiki/Image:Junctionary2SLH.png 22:43:22 <csokisnyuszi> <; 22:43:47 <Zantor64> LOL csokisnyuszi there is no way I need something that large and comples 22:43:48 <Zantor64> complex* 22:44:02 <Xaroth> that's not complex :/ 22:44:07 <Eddi|zuHause> and if you update to 0.7, you might want to check out the path signals 22:44:51 <Eddi|zuHause> are those the shinkansen tracks? 22:44:54 <Zantor64> http://www.openttdcoop.org/wiki/Image:PBS_Non_Ideal.png this would meet the load but it's so complicated there's bound to be problems 22:44:56 <Zantor64> I have 0.7 22:45:30 <Ammler> good night :-) 22:45:32 <csokisnyuszi> hmm interesting 22:45:41 <Zantor64> it looks like it has a presignal 22:45:53 <Xaroth> not really complicated, but 6 stations to 1 entry/exit is easily doable 22:46:21 <csokisnyuszi> how about make connection to every direction? <; 22:46:29 <csokisnyuszi> and use reserve path signal 22:46:40 <Zantor64> that's a good idea, using a path signal 22:46:46 <Zantor64> I'm redoing it and will upload a screenie when I"m done 22:48:40 <csokisnyuszi> have someone tries printout of 2048x2048 map to bmp yet? 22:48:50 <csokisnyuszi> *d 22:48:59 <Zantor64> http://mibbit.com/up/TOi34BYb.png something like this? 22:50:23 <Yexo> if that's a pbs one-way signal, you can remove all the exit signals in front of the station 22:50:31 <Zantor64> really? 22:50:36 <Yexo> yes 22:50:37 <Zantor64> that path signal is one-way 22:50:48 <Zantor64> sdone 22:50:48 <Yexo> it was more a question whether or not it was a path signal 22:50:49 <Zantor64> done* 22:51:06 <Zantor64> http://mibbit.com/up/7mnp46I9.png update 22:51:23 <Yexo> now try it out :) 22:51:26 <Zantor64> one-way path based signal 22:51:27 <Zantor64> okay 22:51:36 <Zantor64> now back to the 4-way junction 22:52:06 <csokisnyuszi> will this be cool at the station? 22:52:07 <Zantor64> I was looking at adv. roundabout, star, or tetrathorp 22:52:17 <Zantor64> did you look at my new station setup? 22:52:22 <csokisnyuszi> yep 22:52:41 <csokisnyuszi> haven't tried this setup before 22:52:54 <Zantor64> oh did I come up with something new? 22:53:16 <csokisnyuszi> maeby but never did a screenshot 22:53:21 <Yexo> that depends what you call new 22:53:21 <Zantor64> oh 22:53:25 <csokisnyuszi> ? have some savegames 22:53:46 <Yexo> it might be new for you and csokisnyuszi, this station setup (with just a single pbs signal) is not new for me 22:53:55 <Nite_Owl> you may want to try it with one way PBS signals facing into the platforms 22:54:02 <csokisnyuszi> btw original ttd savegames will work on openTTD ? 22:54:07 <Nite_Owl> in front of the platforms 22:54:20 <Yexo> Nite_Owl: that's only needed if it's a drive-though station / terminus statino combined 22:54:31 <Yexo> csokisnyuszi: they should, if they don't, poke SmatZ 22:54:35 <Zantor64> well this is my first time trying path-based signals, nite_owl 22:55:10 <csokisnyuszi> cool 22:55:27 <Nite_Owl> Hmmm - I will keep that in mind Yexo 22:55:54 <Zantor64> but I when I learned presignals I used them extensively 22:56:28 <Eddi|zuHause> www.informatik.uni-halle.de/~krause/Ravenswald%20Transport,%2018.%20Dez%201982.png <- check this one 22:57:09 <Eddi|zuHause> draw the individual entrances separated as far as possible 22:57:29 <Eddi|zuHause> those are 4 entrances 22:57:36 <Eddi|zuHause> 3 double track, 1 single track 22:57:46 <Eddi|zuHause> and a 4 track station 22:58:23 *** Zantor64 [46ed808a@webchat.mibbit.com] has quit [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client] 22:58:45 *** Zantor64 [46ed808a@webchat.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 22:58:47 <csokisnyuszi> how can i do cool screenshots in openttd? 22:59:00 <Zantor64> oops doggone mibbit and pushing wrong buttons by accident 22:59:07 <Xaroth> cool screenshots? 22:59:20 <Xaroth> pour liquid nitrogen over your screen 22:59:21 <csokisnyuszi> mean good quality, not zoomed-out 22:59:23 <Xaroth> take a screenshot 22:59:37 <Yexo> csokisnyuszi: sure, just press ctrl+s 22:59:40 *** Exl [~myself@cp1224652-a.roemd1.lb.home.nl] has quit [Quit: Bitches.] 22:59:47 <Yexo> and if you don't want a zoomed-out screenshot, be sure to zoom-in first :p 23:00:02 <csokisnyuszi> ty, trying out 23:00:24 <Zantor64> well I've leveled the area down one level 23:00:28 <Zantor64> hopefully I wil have room for this 23:01:56 <Zantor64> I have another question about path-based signals and one-way stations 23:01:57 <csokisnyuszi> searching for screenshot file... 23:02:18 <Zantor64> is it possible to use one path-based signal for a multiplatform one-way station? 23:02:28 <Eddi|zuHause> csokisnyuszi: on windows, most likely in "My Documents\OpenTTD" 23:02:37 <csokisnyuszi> linux 23:02:45 <Zantor64> eheh 23:02:46 *** KritiK [~Maxim@78-106-137-136.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:02:48 <Eddi|zuHause> then in ~/.openttd 23:03:02 <Zantor64> j/k linux is cool 23:03:03 <csokisnyuszi> o thx found it 23:03:06 *** KritiK [~Maxim@78-106-137-136.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #openttd 23:03:20 <csokisnyuszi> :( 23:03:24 <csokisnyuszi> it's zoomed out 23:03:55 <Eddi|zuHause> maybe your image viewer is zoomed out? 23:03:57 <Yexo> hmm? it should be a copy of the screen you saw at the time you took a screenshot 23:04:15 <csokisnyuszi> Noldo, full size is small 23:04:23 <Xaroth> Zantor64: I think the linux users outnumber the windows users in this channel, so be careful :P 23:04:27 <csokisnyuszi> nooo, full size is small 23:04:33 <csokisnyuszi> i will show you 23:04:46 <Zantor64> I was teasing, xaroth 23:05:07 <Xaroth> I know, but when yer outnumbered 2 to 1 that might be dangerous :P 23:05:47 *** Klanticus [~quassel@189.7.85.187] has joined #openttd 23:06:06 <Eddi|zuHause> that reminds me of a sketch in a tv show a few years ago 23:06:10 <Zantor64> I wish modern commercial games would be ported to linux 23:06:22 <Zantor64> using OpenGL and OpenAL for platforms 23:06:26 <Zantor64> er, APIs 23:06:37 <Eddi|zuHause> there was a scene, people with white pointy hats masking their face, siting around a table 23:07:06 <csokisnyuszi> http://img4.imageshack.us/img4/1828/ztransport15thjun2060.png 23:07:15 <Xaroth> EvE used to be linux compatible 23:07:16 <Eddi|zuHause> one of the guys draws their hat off, it's a black guy shouting "surprise" 23:07:40 <Eddi|zuHause> then the picture stops with an "alert"-noise 23:08:07 <Eddi|zuHause> and the subtitle says "98% of all jokes happen at the wrong party" 23:08:19 <csokisnyuszi> you can't see much out of this... 23:09:44 <Eddi|zuHause> i'm not sure if i really want to see much of this... 23:09:46 <csokisnyuszi> idea is to make 2 one-way lines, and connect the stations 23:09:51 <Eddi|zuHause> it has 90? turns and all... 23:10:01 * Xaroth shudders 23:10:10 <Xaroth> real men play without 90 degree turns 23:10:17 <csokisnyuszi> ;> 23:10:24 <Zantor64> I agree 23:10:35 <Zantor64> my very first successful rail network was a mess 23:10:42 <Zantor64> but then it was on a rather small map, 62x128 23:10:46 <Zantor64> 64* 23:10:50 <Zantor64> but when I went up to 128x128 23:10:53 <Zantor64> boy did I have room to make stuff owrk 23:10:55 <Zantor64> work* 23:11:35 <csokisnyuszi> 2048x2048 gives you much space 23:11:38 <Eddi|zuHause> oh i remember my first networks... 23:11:50 <Eddi|zuHause> boy what had i fun after the AI taught me about signals :p 23:12:12 <Eddi|zuHause> that was with the TT Demo, limited to 2 years of playing, and without manual 23:13:21 <csokisnyuszi> Eddi|zuHause, well i found this the cheapest effective solution 23:13:40 <csokisnyuszi> cost was primary concern 23:13:54 <csokisnyuszi> but it worked 23:15:27 <csokisnyuszi> hmm trees are sometimes confusing even if transparent 23:15:58 <Xaroth> make em full transparent? 23:16:03 <Xaroth> ctrl+x 23:16:19 <Xaroth> I play with full-transparent trees most of the time 23:16:26 <csokisnyuszi> ah i see thx 23:16:44 <csokisnyuszi> yep, they are annoying don't see the traffic lights 23:17:25 *** Brianetta [~brian@client-82-3-238-168.glfd.adsl.virgin.net] has quit [Quit: Tsch?ss] 23:18:42 *** davis- [~iloveme@p5B28DB18.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:19:56 <Zantor64> I'm slowly building up size 23:20:05 <Zantor64> I have a 256x256 in the works, but the size keeps intimidating me 23:20:37 <csokisnyuszi> http://img4.imageshack.us/img4/4296/mtrx.png 23:20:50 <csokisnyuszi> :) 23:21:19 <Zantor64> holy crap 23:21:25 <Zantor64> now to get rid of those 90 degree turns 23:21:30 <Zantor64> :P 23:21:50 <csokisnyuszi> there was no space for this many lines :( 23:21:57 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: rubidium * r16248 /branches/0.7/ (7 files in 3 dirs): 23:21:57 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: [0.7] -Backport from trunk: 23:21:57 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: - Fix: Improve corner case order handling: mark order as done only when actually done, obey non-stop orders, do only stop/refit at the depot in the order (r16240,r16228,r16199,r16198,r16187) 23:21:57 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: - Fix: Use the stop/non-stop intermediate orderflags AIs can give for goto-depot orders (r16239) 23:22:22 <Zantor64> tho that is very impressive 23:22:29 <Eddi|zuHause> i don't see how this is either "cheap" or "effective" 23:22:33 <Zantor64> I haven't even endeavored to do something that complex 23:22:37 <csokisnyuszi> this is a test setup 23:23:22 <Xaroth> [csokisnyuszi]: http://img4.imageshack.us/img4/4296/mtrx.png << unefficient use of space tbh :/ 23:23:34 <Xaroth> you could have done with 2 entry lines and 2 exit lines easily 23:23:37 <Zantor64> tbh? 23:23:42 <Xaroth> to be honest 23:23:57 <Zantor64> o 23:23:58 <Xaroth> or go for 3/3 and add a few more station lines 23:24:17 <csokisnyuszi> here's the other end http://img142.imageshack.us/img142/2471/mtrx2.png 23:24:34 <Xaroth> yeh, as i said, unefficient use of space :P 23:25:45 <Eddi|zuHause> i can guarantee you that this station can be served by 2 parallel lines instead of 7. possibly even 1 (per direction) 23:26:15 <csokisnyuszi> o.c. this is a small town 23:26:39 <Eddi|zuHause> i don't mean the town 23:26:44 <Yexo> csokisnyuszi: how many trains are running between those stations? 23:26:53 <Xaroth> http://users.tt-forums.net/autottd/screenshot.png 23:26:55 <Eddi|zuHause> i mean the number of tracks at the station vs. the number of tracks inbetween stations 23:26:58 <csokisnyuszi> ? have tried 15+ 23:27:18 <Xaroth> that's 2 lines one way, two lines another, and that station can be visited from both ways entrance or exit 23:27:20 <csokisnyuszi> but wasn't enough passengers 23:27:36 <Yexo> only that little? you can easily run 20 trains per track / 3-wide station, at least if there is some distance between those towns 23:27:43 <Nite_Owl> Ooo - late - must go get food - later all 23:27:51 <Xaroth> serves around.. 30-ish trains full load/unloading 23:28:03 <Zantor64> cya owl 23:28:10 *** Nite_Owl [~Nite_Owl@c-76-109-51-190.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Read You Soon] 23:28:14 <csokisnyuszi> :) 23:28:42 <Eddi|zuHause> csokisnyuszi: come back when you have 150 trains runnign on that... 23:28:50 <Xaroth> only 150? 23:28:54 <csokisnyuszi> so ? made some how to inefficiently use 7 lines screenshot :) 23:29:06 <Xaroth> csokisnyuszi: quite :P 23:29:14 <Xaroth> 1-on-1 lines are always inefficient 23:29:27 <Eddi|zuHause> Xaroth: that is around 20 per track 23:29:33 <Xaroth> most stations are more than doable with just 2 lines, one for one way, one for another 23:29:50 <Xaroth> Eddi|zuHause: 256^2 map, both ends of map, should easily hold 30 per track i think 23:29:54 <Eddi|zuHause> which matches what Yexo wrote 23:30:28 <Xaroth> anyways, off to bed 23:30:29 <Xaroth> nn 23:31:03 <Zantor64> cya xaroth 23:31:05 <Zantor64> and thanks for the help 23:32:49 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B77C21.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [] 23:33:19 <csokisnyuszi> Xaroth, made the junction all right? 23:33:23 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B77C37.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 23:33:37 <csokisnyuszi> oh not you 23:33:50 <csokisnyuszi> Zantor64, made the junction all right? 23:33:59 <Zantor64> finishing it up 23:34:10 <Eddi|zuHause> you could check out this savegame: www.informatik.uni-halle.de/~krause/Ravenswald%20Transport,%202.%20Jan%201972.sav 23:34:17 <Eddi|zuHause> it has a few cute junctions 23:34:24 <Zantor64> ein moment, bitte 23:34:36 <Zantor64> http://mibbit.com/up/7BmNmliV.png updated and completed 23:34:48 <Zantor64> now to plant trees and stuff 23:36:00 <Eddi|zuHause> doesn't look too bad, but leaves room for improvement 23:36:06 <csokisnyuszi> plant cute girls there 23:36:10 <Zantor64> lol 23:36:19 <Zantor64> well I'm still learning stuff about laying track and all 23:36:22 <Zantor64> but I have basics down 23:38:11 <Zantor64> how can I conquer the intimidation of large maps? 23:38:30 <Eddi|zuHause> step by step ;) 23:38:40 <Zantor64> how so? 23:38:40 *** tokai [~tokai@p54B83DC7.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 23:38:43 *** mode/#openttd [+v tokai] by ChanServ 23:38:43 <Eddi|zuHause> daylength patch helps ;) 23:38:52 <Zantor64> where can I find that? 23:38:55 * Sacro 's daylength patch! 23:39:55 <Eddi|zuHause> the game above was a 1024x2048 map (i think), and it was played with daylength x4, and even after 50 years, only half the map was connected 23:41:01 <Zantor64> ahh 23:41:07 <Zantor64> where can I find daylength? 23:41:13 <Sacro> I wrote it :D 23:41:15 <Eddi|zuHause> in the forum 23:41:29 <Zantor64> ok 23:41:29 <Eddi|zuHause> sacro contributed one line. 23:42:53 <Zantor64> brb 23:47:42 <Zantor64> bak 23:51:08 *** KritiK [~Maxim@78-106-137-136.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:52:46 <Zantor64> crap 23:52:51 <Zantor64> now I'm having lost trains everywhere 23:53:17 <csokisnyuszi> you can always use waypoints 23:57:58 <Zantor64> I figured it out 23:58:04 <Zantor64> it was a pbs that wasn't working right 23:58:13 <Zantor64> putting presignals back in fixed it