Config
Log for #openttd on 26th June 2009:
Times are UTC Toggle Colours
00:00:04  * petern remembers that time when bjarni got ripped for claiming something was faster without testing it
00:00:22  <SmatZ> hehe
00:00:42  <glx> and it was not true IIRC :)
00:00:56  <SmatZ> :)
00:00:56  <petern> KUDr did the opposite :D
00:01:35  <SmatZ> on the other hand, r16654 shows ~3% improvement :)
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00:04:49  <tokai> wrong menu.
00:04:57  <tokai> oups.. and wrong channel too
00:05:45  <SmatZ> :-)
00:06:38  <Eddi|zuHause> imho, slopes should have a bigger impact
00:06:54  <Eddi|zuHause> on acceleration/speed
00:06:56  <SmatZ> finally, they mentioned Jackson in news here...
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00:16:48  <Akoz> later guys
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00:21:02  <SmatZ> @calc (19260+19260+19230)/(17090+17170+17070)
00:21:02  <DorpsGek> SmatZ: 1.12507305669
00:21:15  <SmatZ> about 13% faster than 0.7.0 ;)
00:21:31  <SmatZ> 1000 ticks, http://www.openttdcoop.org/files/publicserver_archive/PublicServerGame_122_Final.sav
00:21:42  <glx> not bad
00:21:49  <SmatZ> without asserts
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00:39:59  <Eddi|zuHause> @devs: there doesn't seem to be any debug output on where the openttd.cfg was found, and whether writing to it was successful
00:42:09  <glx> Eddi|zuHause: openttd -d misc3
00:42:32  <Eddi|zuHause> glx: no, that only lists the search directories, and whether it found some tars
00:42:38  <Eddi|zuHause> but not the cfg file itself
00:42:51  <glx> level 3 shows where personnal dir is
00:43:01  <glx> and this dir contains openttd.cfg
00:43:03  <Sacro> hmm
00:43:23  <Eddi|zuHause> and still, it does not say if it could write to it
00:43:34  <glx> that's another thing :)
00:43:34  * Sacro writes on Eddi|zuHause
00:43:54  <Eddi|zuHause> http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=44095 <- referencing that
00:43:56  <glx> it's written on exit, but we don't check if it worked
00:44:39  <Eddi|zuHause> and it does not say whether the personal dir actually has a cfg
00:46:06  <glx> D:\developpement\ottd\trunk>touch openttd.cfg
00:46:06  <glx>
00:46:06  <glx> D:\developpement\ottd\trunk>bin\openttd.exe -dmisc3
00:46:06  <glx> dbg: [misc] D:\developpement\ottd\trunk\ found as personal directory
00:46:30  <Eddi|zuHause> glx: on a clean install, no cfg is present
00:46:34  <glx> personnal dir is where openttd found the cfg else it's ~/.openttd
00:46:36  <Eddi|zuHause> (yet)
00:46:52  <glx> or mydocs\openttd
00:47:11  <glx> as explained in readme.txt
00:47:11  <Eddi|zuHause> so from the debug output, one can not differenciate whether there was a cfg in the personal dir, or it chose the default one
00:47:57  <glx> the cfg is "always" in personnal dir
00:48:10  <glx> it will be created there if none found on start
00:48:24  <glx> created on exit of course
00:49:27  <glx> so this guy have a non writable ~/.openttd it seems
00:49:33  <glx> and that's weird
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00:58:34  <Eddi|zuHause> the world is coming to an end...
00:58:41  <Eddi|zuHause> i'm even starting to help alain...
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00:59:07  <torrin> Need Sex? Get Laid! famouspornstars.com
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01:00:27  <Eddi|zuHause> the weird thing about this is... what is the actual relation between "porn" and "getting laid"?
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01:10:57  <cnk> the former is more often than enough staged
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01:34:25  <marhta> Need Sex? Get Laid! famouspornstars.com
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01:41:11  <Sacro> whoah
01:41:14  <Sacro> totally zoned out
01:44:22  <Eddi|zuHause> what's up with all the IRC spam suddenly?
01:44:29  <Eddi|zuHause> first the join-flood, now this...
01:46:37  <Sacro> dunno
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07:01:42  <z-MaTRiX> hello
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07:40:50  <dihedral> morning
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07:45:43  <SirSquidness> greetings dihedral
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08:04:24  <andythenorth_> morning
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08:34:53  <dms> Need Sex? Get Laid! famouspornstars.com
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08:35:15  <SmatZ> what, it's not dead? :(
08:35:20  <SmatZ> hello :)
08:35:42  <Rubidium> SmatZ: a botnet that's dead?
08:37:25  <SmatZ> :-)
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08:49:02  <vannie> Need Sex? Get Laid! famouspornstars.com
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09:16:58  <z-MaTRiX> hmm
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09:21:18  <dihedral> \o/ - just got a spare part for my mac :-)
09:23:17  <z-MaTRiX> cool, now you can use it as a pc
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09:34:22  <dihedral> z-MaTRiX, wtf!
09:34:31  <dihedral> ^^
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10:03:47  <De_Ghosty> spare part
10:03:50  <De_Ghosty> of a mac?
10:03:51  <De_Ghosty> LIES
10:04:28  <Eddi|zuHause> he means he took it apart and rebuild it. and now he has leftover parts
10:05:05  <De_Ghosty> o
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10:28:36  <dihedral> eh...
10:28:47  <dihedral> well - i needed to replace the DC-in board
10:29:25  <dihedral> and, it's a mac, so those parts are not soldered on to the logic board
10:30:03  <petern> you just have to saw the case open to get to it
10:30:40  <z-MaTRiX> that's no problem, i used to replace BGA ics
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10:38:10  <petern> heh
10:38:12  <petern>               http://www.openbsd.org/cgi-bin/cvsweb/src/lib/libc/string/strlen.c?rev=1.7;content-type=text%2Fplain
10:38:16  <petern> openbsd
10:38:17  <petern> vs
10:38:23  <petern>               http://www.openbsd.org/cgi-bin/cvsweb/src/lib/libc/string/strlen.c?rev=1.7;content-type=text%2Fplain
10:38:26  <petern> linux
10:38:29  <petern> er
10:38:33  <petern> http://sources.redhat.com/cgi-bin/cvsweb.cgi/libc/string/strlen.c?rev=1.1.2.1&content-type=text/x-cvsweb-markup&cvsroot=glibc
10:40:01  <Rubidium> sense and simplicity vs wtf
10:40:33  *** De_Ghosty is now known as BoooooOOOOOOOOOOOOoooooo
10:41:47  <petern> yup
10:43:27  <z-MaTRiX> :)
10:43:38  <z-MaTRiX> nicer in ASM optimized form
10:43:43  <Rubidium> hmm, does that look like we can fool strlen if using a character '\x80' at the word boundary?
10:43:57  <SmatZ> did anyone say "optimisations"?
10:44:33  <Rubidium> oh no, you can just make it do extra work ;)
10:45:33  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: smatz * r16662 /trunk/src/ (roadstop.cpp roadstop_base.h roadveh_cmd.cpp station_cmd.cpp): -Codechange: replace GetRoadStopByTile() by RoadStop::GetByTile()
10:45:36  <Eddi|zuHause> hehe... "magic_bits", "himagic", "lomagic"
10:45:52  <Rubidium> I'm missing "toomagic"
10:45:56  <SmatZ> :-)
10:46:11  <z-MaTRiX> its black magik
10:46:20  <z-MaTRiX> not imagemagick <;
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10:49:16  <z-MaTRiX> http://board.flatassembler.net/topic.php?t=10193
10:53:01  <Noldo> petern: did you profile them?
10:53:10  <petern> Noldo, no
10:53:11  <SmatZ> memcpy_s(dst,sizeof(dst), src,len);
10:53:13  <SmatZ> wtf
10:53:36  <SmatZ> as if dst wasn't a pointer in many cases
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10:55:11  <SmatZ> "This is just a publicity stunt. Microsoft has to stop letting marketing people write code." :)
10:55:54  <Eddi|zuHause> petern: probably the second version kills all chances of compilers to optimise the damn thing theirselves
10:56:47  <petern> i'm going to assume it is actually faster
10:56:52  <petern> otherwise there's no point
10:57:10  <SmatZ> hehe
10:57:17  <petern> it just *seems* to be doing a lot more :)
10:57:23  <Noldo> it's somewhat safe to asume it has been profiled by someone
10:57:24  <Eddi|zuHause> e.g. by unfolding the for loop and then do 4 8-bit operations simultaneously (e.g. MMX-operations)
10:59:18  * Rubidium wonders whether he understands that function correctly
11:00:09  <Rubidium> oh, it's just strange coding style
11:00:15  <petern> yeah, that too
11:00:26  <petern> there's going to be some overhead in setting up the magic bits
11:00:42  <petern> on 64 bit, anyway
11:01:30  * petern ponders profiling it anyway :D
11:01:33  <SmatZ> :-)
11:01:53  <Noldo> petern: go for it!
11:02:52  *** Sacro_ is now known as Sacro
11:03:05  <Eddi|zuHause> at a quick glance: the first version is doing 2 8-bit operations per loop (x4), the second one is doing 5 32-bit operations per loop
11:04:05  <Eddi|zuHause> plus the jump
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11:22:21  <petern> simple 307912, glib 514992
11:22:29  <petern> hmm
11:22:50  <SmatZ> time or performance?
11:23:03  <SmatZ> (ms or chars/s?)
11:24:42  <petern> simple 196738808, glib 264293684
11:24:47  <petern> pom te pom
11:24:53  <petern> using rdtsc
11:24:59  <SmatZ> hehe
11:25:06  <SmatZ> very interesting
11:26:00  <Eddi|zuHause> so lower=faster?
11:26:12  <Eddi|zuHause> or higher=faster?
11:26:29  <petern> higher = more ticks
11:27:04  <Eddi|zuHause> @calc 307912*8/5
11:27:04  <DorpsGek> Eddi|zuHause: 492659.2
11:27:16  <petern> ?
11:28:17  <petern> simple 1263148, glib 2075964
11:28:18  <petern> :s
11:28:38  <Yexo_> petern: are the strings you're testing long or short?
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11:29:27  <petern> 1000 chars
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11:30:01  <petern> hmm
11:30:11  <petern> the glibc is faster for short strings
11:30:54  <petern> simple 30760, glib 1888
11:30:56  <petern> for 20 chars
11:31:22  <Noldo> how is that possible
11:32:36  <petern> after about 200 chars, the simple method is faster
11:32:51  <petern> wonder if that's cache related
11:33:00  <petern> i'm using the same buffer
11:33:45  <petern> must be
11:33:57  <petern> it depends on the number of loop iterations too
11:34:29  <Eddi|zuHause> try placing 1000 20-char strings in a row, to check caching relevance
11:35:03  <dihedral> heh
11:35:17  <petern> yeah
11:38:19  <petern> lol
11:38:21  <petern> i'm an idiot
11:38:36  <petern> i accidentally included the buffer fill in the test timing
11:38:43  <petern> now the openbsd method is always faster
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11:42:49  <petern> simple 10702204, glib 18790640, sys 80
11:42:50  <petern> haha
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11:44:46  <SmatZ> petern: http://paste.openttd.org/183527 I got different results
11:45:11  <petern> simple 10734980, glib 16345840, sys 5566008
11:45:12  <petern> more like it
11:45:20  <Eddi|zuHause> what's "sys"?
11:45:23  <SmatZ> strange
11:45:35  <petern> standard strlen
11:45:35  <SmatZ> petern: did you try -O3 ?
11:45:58  <petern> yes
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11:47:08  <petern> with "sys 80" it had optimised the strlen away because i wasn't using the result
11:47:12  <SmatZ> http://devs.openttd.org/~smatz/strlen_test.c my test program
11:47:31  <petern> not text/plain :(
11:48:00  <SmatZ> http://devs.openttd.org/~smatz/strlen_test.txt ;)
11:48:32  <z-MaTRiX> are you optimizing strlen?
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11:48:57  <SmatZ> just benchmarking
11:49:14  <z-MaTRiX> can you check ASM too? :)
11:49:22  <z-MaTRiX> would be interested
11:50:02  <petern> SmatZ, 32 or 64 bit?
11:50:24  <SmatZ> http://devs.openttd.org/~smatz/strlen_test.S.txt
11:50:26  <SmatZ> petern: 64bit
11:51:14  <SmatZ> 	uint64 r[3] = { 0, 0, 0};
11:51:17  <SmatZ> is better for 32bit system
11:51:19  <SmatZ> :)
11:52:35  <SmatZ> the system strlen() is probably optimised in such a way
11:52:57  <SmatZ> that the gcc knows it always returns the same value
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11:53:51  <SmatZ> http://devs.openttd.org/~smatz/strlen_test.txt so it doesn't have that advantage
11:55:09  <SmatZ> http://paste.openttd.org/183528 32b, http://paste.openttd.org/183529 64b
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12:16:21  <rasco> hullo
12:18:15  <rasco> is there a reason why CMD_MONEY_CHEAT has to be CMD_OFFLINE?
12:18:32  <rasco> the server doesen't allow it anyways if not in debug mode
12:18:36  <lolman> rasco: to prevent multiplayer cheating, I would have supposed
12:19:41  <rasco> but it's like checking twice
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12:26:05  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: smatz * r16663 /trunk/src/station_cmd.cpp: -Codechange: make removing of railway station tiles faster
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12:27:30  <Eddi|zuHause> rasco: client side vs. server side check?
12:27:57  <Eddi|zuHause> it's not like this check could be performance critical
12:29:47  <Rubidium> rasco: checking for invalid characters in a string doesn't need to happen either, after all the window input checks that
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12:31:19  <rasco> it's not because it could be performance critical
12:32:00  <rasco> not, it's because i'm a server admin and would like to do something funny with the server
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12:32:18  <Yexo> if either of these checks was removed, it should be the one in CmdMoneyCheat
12:32:25  <rasco> e.g. make things more expensive with moneycheat
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12:32:44  <Yexo> if you remove the CMD_OFFLINE flag without changing CmdMoneyCheat you introduce an easy desync
12:32:54  <Eddi|zuHause> rasco: i'm not sure if you understand how multiplayer works
12:32:56  <rasco> yexo: why easy desync?
12:33:08  <rasco> if someone sends a cmd_money_cheat it's his own fault
12:33:15  <Yexo> because if you compile the server in debug mode, the server will allow the money cheat, but the clients won't
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12:33:49  <rasco> yexo: that's exactly the problem. i'd like the money cheat to be configured server-side only
12:33:58  <Yexo> so if client A sends CMD_MONEY_CHEAT, the server will increase the amount of money A has, but none of the clients will accept it
12:33:58  <rasco> you need a debug client to not go desync
12:34:10  <Bjarni> hello everybody
12:34:17  <Bjarni> any ubuntu user here?
12:34:25  <rasco> yexo true
12:34:32  <Yexo> rasco: if you want users to have a debug client, either you have to compile it for them or they have to compile themserlf
12:34:38  <Yexo> so you might as well use a small patch
12:34:49  <Yexo> Bjarni: only occasionally
12:34:56  <lolman> Bjarni: I can quickly chuck a VM together if wanted
12:35:03  <rasco> the problem is: most users don't want to download a patch or custom version
12:35:08  <Chris_Booth> i have a ubuntu VM
12:35:39  <Bjarni> I have a running VM with ubuntu right now
12:35:55  <rasco> so the check could be disabled on client side, but enabled on server side
12:35:57  <Chris_Booth> what do you want to know or want me to do?
12:35:58  <Yexo> rasco: in that case users won't have a debug build either
12:35:59  <Bjarni> the question is how do I install java runtime environment in firefox
12:36:09  <Bjarni> preferably without too many steps, which can go wrong
12:37:15  <Yexo> sudo apt-get install sun-java6-jre sun-java6-plugin sun-java6-fonts <- from a quick google search
12:37:19  <rasco> Yexo: yes. but if the "standard" official version of openttd would *allow* cmd_money_cheat in multiplayer, a server could choose to enable or disable it
12:37:34  <Yexo> true, but we won't allow cheating
12:37:48  <rasco> why not? cool things are possible with it
12:38:07  <rasco> a server can have price differences without grfs
12:38:10  <rasco> and stuff like that
12:38:13  <Yexo> because it can destroy the fun for people who want to pla fair
12:38:34  <rasco> yes, but a server with cheating does not mean that everyone can cheat
12:38:40  <rasco> you have to enable it first
12:38:47  <rasco> (i mean enable it serverside=
12:38:54  <Rubidium> the money cheat actually working in network in debug mode is PURELY for debugging purposes
12:39:06  <Bjarni> thanks Yexo
12:39:12  <Bjarni> looks like it's installing something now
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12:39:29  <Bjarni> the question is what if it will work when it's done :/
12:39:43  <rasco> Yexo: Rubidium: I understand your guys concernc about cheating
12:40:11  <rasco> but it's no problem as long as the server can CHOOSE to allow/disallow it
12:40:27  <rasco> concerns, taht is
12:40:28  <Yexo> it is, evern a server owner can cheat
12:40:49  <rasco> Yexo: i can cheat as server owner even WITHOUT CMD_MONEY_CHEAT
12:41:04  <Yexo> how would you do that?
12:41:13  <rasco> hehe discard client commands
12:41:22  <SmatZ> useful :-p
12:41:34  <rasco> or inject fake client commands
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12:41:35  <SmatZ> you don't have to run game server after all
12:41:39  <Yexo> it'll be clear very quick if you do that
12:41:59  <rasco> yep, but using a money cheat to cheat will also be clear very quickly
12:42:21  <SmatZ> it's for debugging purposes
12:42:34  <SmatZ> so you can cheat yourself money even in multiplayer
12:42:57  <Yexo> if you want everyone to have a lot of money, create a savegame in mp, load it in sp and cheat every company a lot of money, then load it in mp again
12:43:11  <rasco> Yexo: let me explain what i'd like to do
12:43:27  <rasco> i have a competitive server (speedy)
12:43:33  <rasco> people get scores each game
12:43:46  <rasco> those scores go to a database
12:43:58  <rasco> now, aircraft are disabled on my servers
12:44:10  <rasco> why? because they are veeeery quick money without any work
12:44:31  <rasco> with CMD_MONEY_CHEAT i could make aircraft more expensive quite easily
12:44:46  <Yexo> huh?
12:44:47  <rasco> not only their buy price, but also running costs
12:44:57  <Yexo> what has CMD_MONEY_CHEAT to do with aircraft prices?
12:45:13  <Eddi|zuHause> you could, like, just use a basecost newgrf...
12:45:21  <Belugas> hello
12:45:26  <Yexo> hello Belugas
12:45:39  <rasco> every 10 ticks i could inject a cmd_money_cheat for each airplane, that takes away some of the company's money
12:46:07  <Eddi|zuHause> that's completely silly...
12:46:12  <rasco> heh
12:46:26  <Yexo> just use a base cost newgrf
12:46:41  <rasco> well how easy is it then to get my own GRF's to the official site?
12:46:50  <Yexo> very easy
12:46:56  <Eddi|zuHause> there is already one
12:47:00  <Yexo> as long as you created them, you can just upload them
12:47:07  <rasco> oh well ok
12:47:18  <Yexo> and for a basecost newgrf, you could even unload it since the base costs are stored in the savegame
12:47:21  <Belugas> it's for sure faster than to write your hack :)
12:47:22  <planetmaker> important part is "as long as you created them" :)
12:47:24  <Yexo> that way users don't need the newgrf
12:47:37  <rasco> since the new auto-grf-download maybe people will be more open to joining grf servers
12:47:46  <planetmaker> yes, they are.
12:47:51  <planetmaker> I *think*
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12:48:12  <rasco> Eddi|zuHause: that base cost grf can change all vehicle's running costs?
12:48:14  <planetmaker> would be interesting to see hard facts on that though.
12:48:23  <planetmaker> not only vehicles...
12:48:33  <rasco> sounds good..
12:48:38  <Eddi|zuHause> it comes with a readme...
12:48:51  <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause, it's surely a do-not-readme :P
12:50:28  <Bjarni> oh dear
12:50:44  <Bjarni> now I wonder how to accept the EULA presented by apt-get
12:51:00  <Bjarni> there is an Ok marker, but I can't click it
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12:51:12  <Yexo> press enter?
12:51:12  <Bjarni> enter or writing ok doesn't help either
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12:51:26  <Ammler> Y?
12:51:42  <Yexo> using tab to select the ok 'button'?
12:51:50  <Ammler> or maybe it is less, so q would help :-)
12:52:02  <Bjarni> tab to ok was the solution :)
12:52:28  <Ammler> which strange distro to you try now?
12:52:43  <Bjarni> once you realise stuff like that it looks so simple and you wonder why you got stuck
12:52:51  <Bjarni> <Ammler> which strange distro to you try now? <-- ubuntu
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12:53:29  <Bjarni> I decided on something more mainstream so I could find people to ask if I got stuck
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12:54:07  <Ammler> that should also support the mouse, I guess.
12:54:32  <Bjarni> it does
12:54:38  <Bjarni> just not in that EULA window
12:54:45  <Bjarni> which is actually the terminal window
12:55:30  <Bjarni> I mean even windows can execute applications which will not listen for mouse input
12:57:36  <Ammler> well, linux <whatever> can be much mre clicky i.e. the middle button.
12:57:54  * Bjarni does the happy dance
12:58:05  <Bjarni> firefox can execute java code :D
12:58:28  <Bjarni> took me hours to get working and some GB downloads
12:58:40  <Bjarni> and I thought it would be so simple....
12:59:20  <Ammler> well, 1st time :-)
13:00:12  <Ammler> usually you install a whole linux system in < 1h, same you need for windows half a day
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13:00:41  <Ammler> (mostly searching for drivers)
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13:01:01  <Bjarni> the main issue was preconfigured VMs without java and/or network access
13:01:15  <Bjarni> who would make a VM without network access???
13:01:36  <Ammler> maybe a license issue?
13:01:44  <Bjarni> maybe
13:01:47  <Ammler> you could "buy" the one with
13:02:05  <Bjarni> but if there is such an issue the documentation could say so
13:02:05  <Ammler> it
13:02:09  <Bjarni> there is no buy option
13:02:37  <planetmaker> Bjarni, for certain tests a VM w/o network access makes sense IMO :)
13:02:46  <Bjarni> yeah
13:02:53  <planetmaker> and hello :)
13:03:00  <Bjarni> it's not completely insane
13:03:12  <Bjarni> but one would assume that it would have it unless mentioned otherwise
13:03:19  <Bjarni> there is a description and it wasn't mentioned
13:03:28  <planetmaker> he...
13:03:37  <planetmaker> there I have to agree.
13:06:05  <Eddi|zuHause> hehe "i believe many people do not like vi because they only use it in stress situations"
13:06:18  <planetmaker> haha :)
13:06:44  <Bjarni> the same could be said for vim
13:06:56  <Bjarni> I usually end up with it if no other editor is installed
13:07:12  <Eddi|zuHause> on which modern system is vi not a symlink to vim?
13:07:27  <Bjarni> I have no idea
13:07:36  <Bjarni> but I type vim, not vi
13:07:36  <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: openwrt
13:09:00  <Eddi|zuHause> "and what do you do when no editor is installed at all?" "touch blah; echo XYZ >> blah"
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13:11:36  <rasco> echo "<source code of an editor>" >> editor.c && gcc editor.c
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13:44:27  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: smatz * r16664 /trunk/ (17 files in 4 dirs): -Codechange: move house-related stuff from town.h and town_type.h to separate files
13:46:35  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: smatz * r16665 /trunk/src/ (newgrf_house.cpp saveload/town_sl.cpp town.h town_cmd.cpp): -Codechange: replace GetTownByTile() by Town::GetByTile()
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14:02:42  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: smatz * r16666 /trunk/src/ (7 files in 2 dirs): -Codechange: replace GetHouseSpecs() by HouseSpec::Get(), hide _house_specs[]
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14:15:35  <rasco> so, i'll set up one of my servers with a base-cost grf
14:15:52  <rasco> and will tell you guys how many people join that server compared to the standard without grfs
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14:18:47  <rasco> about the auto-download:
14:19:02  <rasco> couldn't it be done easier for stupid users to download grfs-ingame?
14:19:18  <rasco> currently if you wanna join you have to click through 4 buttons
14:19:23  <rasco> "newgrf settings" - "find missing content online" - "select all" - "download"
14:19:42  <rasco> for stupidheads one or two clicks would be preferable
14:20:17  <rasco> e.g. clicking the join button would make the game ask "do you want to download following grfs? yes/no"
14:20:33  <Sacro> no
14:20:42  <Sacro> it's better to keep the stupid people at bay
14:21:08  <Ammler> "someone" should make a patch for parameter--autodownload or alike.
14:21:54  <rasco> Ammler: what do you mean
14:22:30  <Ammler> well, if join or load a save, just download all grfs needed, if available.
14:23:47  <Ammler> (would also help the stupid admins)
14:24:23  <Belugas> rasco, no matter how idiot-proof a system can be, they always come with a better idiot
14:24:37  <Belugas> even if there was only one single freaking button on the screen
14:25:14  <Belugas> "hey dude... can you make it like i don't need to do anything and let the game work by itself? That'd be coooool"
14:25:15  <Belugas> :P
14:25:19  * Sacro pushes the button
14:25:25  <Belugas> POOOOOF
14:25:31  <Belugas> that was a virus!!!!
14:26:02  <Sacro> :(
14:26:04  <Sacro> but i'm on a mac
14:26:08  <Sacro> so it doesn't affect me
14:26:17  <rasco> well sure
14:26:18  <rasco> :)
14:26:46  <rasco> but why autodownload in the first place when smart people know where to get the correct grfs in the first place anyway
14:27:18  <Sacro> true
14:27:19  <Belugas> ...
14:27:25  <Sacro> so remove autodownload altogether
14:27:25  <Belugas> that was not the point
14:28:40  <petern> Belugas, you ... available ... tonight?
14:28:43  <Ammler> "smart" and "stupid" might be the wrong words in this case anyway.
14:30:07  <rasco> Ammler: well yea, it would make life easier
14:30:56  <rasco> (even if only a little bit)
14:31:21  <Ammler> well, it does already, if you compare with time before bananas
14:35:14  <Belugas> i'll try petern
14:35:20  <Belugas> late or early?
14:37:16  <petern> er, well it's late for me ,heh
14:40:59  <Belugas> lol
14:41:01  <Belugas> ok
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14:48:02  <Belugas> i won't promise anything, petern, but i'll do my best
14:48:17  <Belugas> i'm eager for another jam indeed
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15:08:20  <Belugas> gaaah....
15:08:22  <Belugas> blind..
15:08:39  <Belugas> i looked at my mouse's laser :S
15:08:59  <Belugas> was not really aware of what i was doing :S
15:09:07  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: smatz * r16667 /trunk/src/ (industry.h industry_cmd.cpp subsidy.cpp town.h town_cmd.cpp): -Codechange: replace GetRandomTown() and GetRandomIndustry() by Town::GetRandom() and Industry::GetRandom()
15:11:23  <SirSquidness> Belugas: I take it you discovered that the light generating element in your mouse is brighter than it needs to be? :P
15:11:53  <Belugas> no.. that it's bright alright
15:12:12  <Belugas> and that WondersOfWondering makes me day-dreaming
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15:22:42  <Belugas> makes me feel like Neil Young playing "Like a hurricane"
15:25:12  <SirSquidness> Is there a way to make OpenTTD use a config file in it's own directory, instead of mydocs or ~ ?
15:26:00  <Eddi|zuHause> yes
15:26:08  <Yexo> openttd -c path/to/openttd.cfg
15:26:14  <SirSquidness> excellent
15:26:15  <SirSquidness> kthnx
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16:24:27  <Belugas> burp
16:24:47  <Belugas> fun fun fun
16:24:59  <Belugas> how to deploy 70 complete stores in 2 days
16:25:10  <Belugas> enjoy hard work guys
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17:35:02  <Wolf01> hello
17:36:27  <Belugas> mister Wolf01 :)
17:37:18  <Wolf01> hello Mr. Belugas :D
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17:41:34  <Alberth> hello
17:42:27  <Wolf01> hello Mr. Alberth :D
17:42:53  <Belugas> Hello Sir Albert
17:43:05  <Alberth> you must be extremely happy or extremely sarcastic :D
17:43:13  <Alberth> Hai Belugas
17:43:21  <Wolf01> oh is he a lord?
17:43:42  <Alberth> I don't know, I don't remember visiting the English Queen
17:43:56  <petern> sirs are not lords
17:44:25  <petern> well technically the word is derived...
17:44:39  <petern> a knight is addressed as sir
17:45:03  <Wolf01> right
17:45:42  <Wolf01> I confused things a bit :P
17:45:48  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: translators * r16668 /trunk/src/lang/ (dutch.txt ukrainian.txt):
17:45:48  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
17:45:48  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: dutch - 43 changes by Yexo
17:45:48  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: ukrainian - 34 changes by Madvin
17:48:49  <Belugas> welll... do yu have Lords and Knights and Sirs in Italy?
17:49:09  <Wolf01> no, we have a lot of idiots :P
17:49:18  *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-590fe139.pool.einsundeins.de] has joined #openttd
17:50:09  <Belugas> so you do not feel like a stranger when reading the forums ^_^
17:51:28  <Belugas> Hello Herr frosch123
17:52:07  <Wolf01> hello frosch123 :D
17:52:33  <frosch123> evening monsieur belugas
17:53:01  <frosch123> evening signore wolf :)
17:53:26  <Alberth> frosch123 knows his languages :)
17:53:39  <Belugas> The Internet.. Connection To the World!
17:53:53  <frosch123> no, I always have to look up the spelling of monsieur, though I used it for at least 10 times now :)
17:53:58  <Xaroth> The Internet.. Connection to the biggest collection of tards!
17:54:03  <Xaroth> there, fixed it for you, Belugas.
17:54:43  <Alberth> well, if by 'the world' you mean mostly people from the western world, then yes.
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18:04:16  <Belugas> why do you say hat Xaroth?  its not true
18:04:32  <Belugas> there are plenty of retards that do not have access to the internet
18:04:58  <Belugas> true, some do qualify enough to pollute the system, but... ain't the majority
18:12:20  <Wolf01> ok, I must go now, see you :)
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18:18:57  <Xaroth> Belugas: but it is, by far, the biggest collection of em
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18:39:01  <Sacro> talking of retards
18:40:25  <Belugas> :)
18:40:30  <Belugas> hello Bjarni
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18:50:59  <z-MaTRiX> hello
18:51:24  <Bjarni> hello Belugas
18:51:32  <Bjarni> and z-MaTRiX
18:51:57  <Bjarni> Sacro: be careful. I might take offence from your lies
18:52:32  <Sacro> well more fool you for taking offence from lies
18:53:17  <Bjarni> spreading lies is actually a jailing offence
18:57:35  * Prof_Frink arrests Bjarni for dealing cake
18:58:25  <Sacro> i snorted cake once
18:58:34  <Sacro> got a candle stuck up my nose
18:58:53  <lolman> Bjarni: depends on what the lie is regarding, actually :)
18:59:15  <lolman> If it doesn't defame, no it's not :D
18:59:27  <Sacro> lolololololololman
18:59:32  <Sacro> oh noes
18:59:35  <lolman> Sacro: oh yeses
19:00:06  <Sacro> eugh
19:00:12  <Sacro> MJ celebration
19:00:18  <Sacro> lolman: are you still in my house?
19:00:21  <lolman> Sacro: yes
19:00:51  <Sacro> sweet
19:01:16  <lolman> I've also prodded O2 and got them to nudge my tarriff down
19:01:34  <Sacro> niiiiice
19:02:15  <lolman> Will be selling my old phone too \o/
19:02:30  <Sacro> was costat?
19:03:14  <lolman> Well I'm just going for a quick get rid of it job, which will apparently give me ?134
19:07:26  <lolman> (Easily covers the extra money going on the G1)
19:08:14  <Bjarni> "quick get rid of it job".... near Hull that means "get rid of evidence of the stolen goods", right?
19:08:37  <Prof_Frink> Bjarni: No, you're thinking of Liverpool
19:08:47  <Bjarni> right
19:08:57  <lolman> What he said
19:09:01  <Bjarni> in Hull you make teenagers pregnant
19:09:11  <Prof_Frink> And get flooded
19:09:12  <Bjarni> and crash random people's homes
19:09:18  <Noldo> one makes or you make?
19:09:32  <lolman> Noldo: depends how posh you are
19:11:09  <Bjarni> if that you means me, then it's "one makes" because I wouldn't do it
19:11:25  <Bjarni> in Hull it would most likely be a dangerous thing to do
19:11:41  <Bjarni> I mean they are more likely to carry an STD, right?
19:11:58  <Bjarni> besides it would take a sick person to deal with such an age difference
19:12:14  <Bjarni> Sacro on the other hand...
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19:18:26  <Sacro> yes?
19:18:58  <Bjarni> damn do I really have to explain that one to you?
19:19:26  <Sacro> Why not
19:19:43  <Bjarni> I was implying that the mental age difference between you and a teenage girl aren't really present
19:20:04  <Sacro> :(
19:20:30  <Bjarni> but I didn't declare this as a fact
19:20:40  <Bjarni> so you are still able to prove that implication wrong
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20:03:41  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: frosch * r16669 /trunk/src/road_cmd.cpp: -Cleanup (r1): Only animated tiles are... animated.
20:05:42  <z-MaTRiX> wow
20:06:21  <petern> heh
20:06:22  <frosch123> someone knows how levelcrossings look like in tto?
20:07:07  <petern> frosch123, you know that might have to go back in? :p
20:07:27  <petern> although... it'd be more complex than that anyway
20:07:53  <frosch123> if you find a nice place for AddAnimatedTile :p
20:15:04  <frosch123> hmm, I guess we do not support animated waypoints
20:17:07  <Belugas> that exists?  or ... it WILL exist
20:18:04  <frosch123> due to ttdp's interpretation, newgrfs consider waypoints as stations, so they *might* try to use animation :p
20:18:51  <frosch123> or is it ottd's interpretation of newgrfs?
20:21:47  <Belugas> dunno, MB has completely messed up my brain in that matter
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21:06:29  <Belugas> bye
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21:25:39  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: alberth * r16670 /trunk/src/ (intro_gui.cpp widget.cpp widget_type.h): -Codechange: Containers with equally sized children are useful to have.
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22:17:15  <Andel> !seen truelight
22:17:29  <Andel> oops forgot - no seen
22:17:30  <Andel> d'oh
22:18:14  <Xaroth> @seen Truelight
22:18:14  <DorpsGek> Xaroth: I have not seen Truelight.
22:24:05  <frosch123> truelight? who's that? :p
22:24:25  <Andel> can someoen please try www.pregnancyforum.org.uk and tell me if they can access it please?
22:25:10  <goodger> nope
22:25:19  <goodger> connection refused, or whatever HTTP code that translates as
22:25:46  <Xaroth> that's not a http code
22:25:50  <Xaroth> that's a tcp code.
22:26:03  <goodger> meh
22:26:32  <goodger> so, how is everyone these past.... months?
22:26:54  <Prof_Frink> It's the good badger!
22:27:15  <goodger> ?.?
22:27:55  <goodger> ...no.
22:28:02  <Andel> thanks goodger
22:28:50  <goodger> *thumbup*
22:29:25  <goodger> everyone is OK then. super.
22:31:14  <goodger> I'm not very good at this precise moment
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22:41:41  <Nite_Owl> Hello all (Zzzzz)
22:45:28  <goodger> um, yes
22:53:51  <goodger> it is appallingly hot ._.
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23:05:23  <Bjarni> did the forum just die for everybody?
23:05:50  <Bjarni> or is it just my connection?
23:05:51  <Alberth> for me it did
23:05:57  <Bjarni> :(
23:06:17  <Bjarni> it worked a moment ago
23:06:27  <Bjarni> makes it rather tricky to reply to the stuff I just read
23:06:43  <SpComb> verily
23:06:47  <Alberth> http://downforeveryoneorjustme.com/tt-forums.net
23:07:23  <Bjarni> just refound that page too
23:07:56  <goodger> someone just asked me whether http://downforeverybodyorjustme.com/ was down
23:08:06  <SpComb> and what happens when downforeveryoneorjustme.com has some weird routing issues and gives inconsitent results?
23:08:16  <Bjarni> goodger: go to the page and check ;)
23:08:20  <goodger> linking to http://downforeveryoneorjustme.com/downforeverybodyorjustme.com caused severe embarrassment
23:09:55  <Bjarni> clicking the link didn't work for me
23:10:04  <Bjarni> http://downforeveryoneorjustme.com/downforeveryoneorjustme.com <-- trying again
23:10:14  <Bjarni> works this time
23:10:21  *** Splex [~splex@c-24-245-55-70.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
23:10:25  <Bjarni> haha
23:10:32  <Bjarni> you wrote the URL wrong
23:10:47  <Bjarni> it's "everyone", not "everybody"
23:10:56  <goodger> oh bugger
23:11:10  <goodger> oh, wait
23:11:15  <goodger> I clicked your link by mistake
23:11:25  <goodger> no, you have completely missed the joke
23:11:47  <Bjarni> looks like it
23:12:25  <Bjarni> and I still can't see the joke with the wrong URL
23:12:57  <goodger> OK, good luck with that
23:13:29  <Bjarni> either you explain it or you didn't tell a joke :P
23:13:51  <goodger> that's completely not how this sort of thing works
23:14:09  <Bjarni> it is when an op declares so
23:14:59  <goodger> ...so you're now threatening to kick{ban} me for half-heartedly dredging up a joke that you don't understand?
23:16:52  <Tefad>  mutiny.
23:17:13  <goodger> quiet, you.
23:17:28  <Bjarni> no
23:17:37  <goodger> not you
23:18:10  <Bjarni> I made you aware that you might risk a kick for not answering my request
23:18:39  <goodger> sounds quite like a threat to me
23:19:04  <goodger> and I hate to have to point it out, but I can't explain the joke from outside the channel
23:19:32  <Bjarni> good point
23:20:19  <Bjarni> still I can't see that it should be funny to write the wrong URL
23:20:45  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: alberth * r16671 /trunk/src/spritecache.h: -Doc: Documenting Sprite structure.
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23:27:46  <goodger> I am in no immediate danger of self-harm
23:29:44  <Bjarni> but what about harm from other things?
23:29:55  <Bjarni> have you checked all the shadows around you?
23:30:20  <goodger> yes, I check them every few seconds
23:30:50  <Bjarni> good
23:30:56  <goodger> no.
23:31:06  <Bjarni> then I can walk right on and you will not notice because you are busy looking at shadows
23:32:17  <goodger> you'll have a job walking here from denmark
23:32:47  <Bjarni> what makes you say that?
23:32:53  <Bjarni> ever heard of proxies?
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23:33:25  <Chruker> meh, I cant get to http://www.tt-forums.net/viewforum.php?f=65
23:33:46  <goodger> nor I
23:33:54  <goodger> Bjarni: proxies are not you
23:33:59  <Bjarni> Chruker: looks like the entire server went offline
23:34:56  <Chruker> ahh well, it'll bounce back... hopefully :-)
23:35:01  *** Chris_Booth [~chatzilla@cpc1-norw5-0-0-cust3.pete.cable.ntl.com] has joined #openttd
23:35:36  <Bjarni> it will
23:35:40  <Bjarni> eventually
23:43:56  *** FR^2 [~frquadrat@frquadrat.de] has joined #openttd
23:48:19  *** Alberth [~hat@a82-95-164-127.adsl.xs4all.nl] has left #openttd []
23:50:53  *** SHADOW-XIII [~Miranda@92.24.30.180] has joined #openttd
23:55:11  <LadyHawk> hmm
23:55:30  <LadyHawk> where do i enable this 'multiple newgrf engine sets' thing?
23:56:07  <Nite_Owl> what version of OpenTTD are you using
23:56:16  <LadyHawk> not sure
23:56:23  <LadyHawk> 0.7.1 it says in titlebar
23:56:40  <Nite_Owl> go to the advance settings
23:56:54  <Nite_Owl> advanced settings
23:57:28  <LadyHawk> whereabouts
23:58:03  *** marz [~chatzilla@pool-70-105-89-144.chi.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #openttd
23:58:05  <Nite_Owl> I believe it tis under the vehicles tab
23:58:37  <Nite_Owl> Oh wait - not tabs anymore
23:59:02  <LadyHawk> aha, found it
23:59:24  <LadyHawk> under vehicles just like you said =)
23:59:26  *** Chris_Booth [~chatzilla@cpc1-norw5-0-0-cust3.pete.cable.ntl.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
23:59:46  <LadyHawk> thanks
23:59:52  <Nite_Owl> any time

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