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00:25:57 *** pjpe [ade6a119@ircip2.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 00:31:33 *** guifre [~guifre@aopcgr.uab.es] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 00:36:03 *** guifre [~guifre@aopcgr.uab.es] has joined #openttd 02:13:36 *** supermop__- [~daniel_er@cpe-67-243-25-39.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #openttd 02:19:22 *** glx [glx@2a01:e35:2f59:c7c0:4ce4:9562:6f90:116] has quit [Quit: bye] 03:03:13 *** Keiya_ [~kyevan@171.64.42.221] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:42:27 *** pjpenispump [ade6a119@ircip4.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 03:46:55 *** pjpe [ade6a119@ircip2.mibbit.com] has quit [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client] 04:15:05 *** pugi [~pugi@dyndsl-091-096-061-096.ewe-ip-backbone.de] has quit [Quit: I reject your reality and substitute my own] 04:20:09 *** Pikka [~Figgy@d58-111-82-182.rdl800.qld.optusnet.com.au] has joined #openttd 04:33:22 <Pikka> gintlepongs 04:39:48 <supermop__-> hello 04:47:54 *** supermop__- [~daniel_er@cpe-67-243-25-39.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: supermop__-] 04:53:18 *** DDR__ [~chatzilla@142.179.78.88] has joined #openttd 04:56:39 *** Eddi|zuHause2 [~johekr@p54B7436B.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 04:58:53 *** DDR_ [~chatzilla@142.179.78.88] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 04:59:01 *** DDR__ is now known as DDR_ 05:03:28 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B74790.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 05:26:13 *** DDR_ [~chatzilla@142.179.78.88] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:26:47 *** Prof_Frink [~proffrink@5e0a9627.bb.sky.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 05:37:04 *** DDR_ [~chatzilla@142.179.78.88] has joined #openttd 06:01:43 <peter1138> there's a bug in welsh 06:02:19 *** Cybertinus [~Cybertinu@tunnel3304.ipv6.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 06:02:22 <peter1138> for STR_SETTINGS_MENU_GAME_OPTIONS it has "Dewisiadau Ge^m" instead of "Dewisiadau Gêm" 06:02:51 <peter1138> there's some more like that actually 06:02:56 <peter1138> w^ instead of ŵ 06:09:43 *** devilsadvocate_ [~quassel@109.200.19.188] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:09:46 *** devilsadvocate_ [~quassel@109.200.19.188] has joined #openttd 06:11:53 *** Maarten [~dutchusa@99-73-209-18.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:12:05 *** Maarten [~dutchusa@99-73-209-18.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #openttd 06:16:19 <Pikka> mm, welsh 06:19:46 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc15-aztw25-2-0-cust3.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 06:20:52 *** sla_ro|master [~slaco@95.76.27.160] has joined #openttd 06:21:57 <Pikka> good morning andy a north 06:32:26 *** Zuu [~Zuu@h-114-141.a98.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #openttd 06:32:44 * Pikka listens to chameleon and codes all the things 06:34:26 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@vpn91.ext.espci.fr] has joined #openttd 06:35:26 <planetmaker> good mourning 06:41:55 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: peter1138 * r23039 /trunk/src/lang/welsh.txt: -Fix: Replace e^ and w^ with ?5?0 and ?7?1 respectively. 06:42:01 <peter1138> lol 06:43:30 <planetmaker> ehm... that's what wt3 is for? 06:44:14 <peter1138> nah 06:44:32 <peter1138> it's part of our source code 06:45:08 <planetmaker> ... 06:47:25 *** DDR_ [~chatzilla@142.179.78.88] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:52:04 <peter1138> i'm with tron there 06:52:44 <peter1138> if the translators don't care to notice something is wrong for 2 years... 06:54:22 *** erik1984 [~erik1984@vhe-490300.sshn.net] has joined #openttd 06:54:42 <peter1138> nearly 3 06:55:59 *** DDR_ [~chatzilla@142.179.78.88] has joined #openttd 06:57:22 * andythenorth has been talking to peopl in australia 06:57:30 <andythenorth> and now australian peopl are talking here 06:57:32 <andythenorth> how odd 06:59:33 *** DDR_ [~chatzilla@142.179.78.88] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:01:01 *** DDR_ [~chatzilla@142.179.78.88] has joined #openttd 07:03:07 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@vpn91.ext.espci.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 07:03:23 <Pikka> is it odd andy? 07:03:38 <Pikka> there's a lot of it (ie, australians) about, you know. 07:04:42 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc15-aztw25-2-0-cust3.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 07:07:01 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc15-aztw25-2-0-cust3.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 07:09:18 *** hanf [~Klaus@host-89-240-253-76.as13285.net] has joined #openttd 07:17:23 *** DayDreamer [~DayDreame@ip-86-49-59-175.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #openttd 07:28:06 *** Zuu [~Zuu@h-114-141.a98.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 07:34:17 *** DDR_ [~chatzilla@142.179.78.88] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.87 [Firefox 7.0.1/20111008085652]] 07:43:21 <Pikka> http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=67&t=57094 and now to wait for the bug reports to roll in. 07:45:35 *** DDR_ [~chatzilla@142.179.78.88] has joined #openttd 07:46:06 <andythenorth> hoo 07:46:10 <andythenorth> new planes from Pikka 07:46:36 <andythenorth> 62 vehicles :) 07:46:51 <Pikka> was meant to be 64 but I didn't quite make it :P 07:47:29 <Pikka> actually I've done nothing for the last three weeks, then today I modelled, rendered, cleaned and coded the last two planes that made it in. :] 07:48:09 <Pikka> and yes, 62 vs 29 in the original av8. :o 07:48:13 * andythenorth should do similar for FISH :P 07:48:50 <andythenorth> I am currently at 29 07:48:56 <Pikka> well there you go 07:49:03 <planetmaker> what you were lazy?! 07:49:07 <andythenorth> drawing boats is rather a chore... 07:49:12 <Pikka> you've got 5 years to make another 33! :D 07:49:20 <planetmaker> incredible... ;-) 07:50:06 <planetmaker> sweet thing, Pikka :-) 07:50:57 <Pikka> ehhh 07:51:30 <planetmaker> or should I say aluminum thing(s)? :-P 07:51:52 <planetmaker> and yes: "happy birthday" :-) 07:52:13 <Pikka> happy birthday to av8 :] 07:52:24 <Pikka> and to me last week :o I'm old now! 07:52:28 <planetmaker> yes, I was sure you could relay that ;-) 07:52:34 <planetmaker> oh... then belated to you, too :-) 07:52:38 <Pikka> ty :P 07:52:48 * andythenorth will have to start new game for playing game purposes 07:52:54 <andythenorth> but now - other things 07:52:55 <andythenorth> bye 07:53:00 <Pikka> bye andy 07:53:05 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc15-aztw25-2-0-cust3.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 07:55:56 <z-MaTRiX> oh i have accidentally added opera's and google's spyware server domains to blocklist using a wildcard 07:56:47 <planetmaker> ah, sweet. The seaplanes are there but need a parameter. Sounds like exactly the right thing for that, Pikka :-) 07:58:45 <planetmaker> I should try at some stage to get an experimental seaport going. Possibly also requiring a parameter ;-) 07:59:05 <planetmaker> ... or (alternatively, also) checking that parameter? ;-) 07:59:12 <Pikka> well 07:59:31 <Pikka> the parameter is just there because there's no standard way of checking if an airport is a seaport yet 07:59:48 <Pikka> if the parameter is on, the plane can operate from any airport, if it's off, it can't operate from any 08:00:00 <Pikka> so it's really just a temporary thing 08:00:21 <Pikka> once we get a standard in for aircraft and airports to communicate with each other, I'll update the grf 08:00:57 <planetmaker> yes, I understand that 08:02:44 <planetmaker> that's why the parameter thing is IMHO the best solution to this. With default "not available" 08:04:21 <Pikka> it's always buildable, it just won't leave the hangar. :) 08:04:46 <Pikka> but I don't see why the airport would need any such parameter 08:05:06 <planetmaker> he 08:05:44 <planetmaker> Pikka, for the same reason: any plane could land on it and it would incur possibly bug reports if a A380 lands in the sea and all is fine 08:06:07 <Pikka> perhaps 08:06:51 <Pikka> although by the time it's a widely released grf hopefully the spec will have moved to the point that it can be handled "properly". :) 08:22:45 <Pikka> later maker! 08:22:49 *** Pikka [~Figgy@d58-111-82-182.rdl800.qld.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 08:26:22 *** DDR_ [~chatzilla@142.179.78.88] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.87 [Firefox 7.0.1/20111008085652]] 08:32:26 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1C5C4.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 08:36:10 *** hanf [~Klaus@host-89-240-253-76.as13285.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 08:47:11 <Terkhen> good morning 08:50:52 *** Eddi|zuHause2 is now known as Eddi|zuHause 09:06:45 *** Sacro [~ben@150.237.48.99] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 09:10:18 *** Sacro [~ben@150.237.48.99] has joined #openttd 09:11:29 *** pjpenispump [ade6a119@ircip4.mibbit.com] has quit [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client] 09:18:42 *** DayDreamer [~DayDreame@ip-86-49-59-175.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 09:24:38 *** Sacro [~ben@150.237.48.99] has quit [Quit: leaving] 09:25:07 *** Sacro [~ben@150.237.48.99] has joined #openttd 09:25:36 *** Sacro [~ben@150.237.48.99] has quit [] 09:40:33 *** Sacro [~ben@150.237.48.99] has joined #openttd 09:57:37 *** pugi [~pugi@dyndsl-091-096-061-096.ewe-ip-backbone.de] has joined #openttd 09:58:25 *** sla_ro|master [~slaco@95.76.27.160] has quit [] 10:19:19 <__ln__> http://www.engadget.com/2011/10/19/googles-street-view-takes-to-the-rails-in-switzerland/ 10:23:54 <MINM> cool 10:25:52 <dihedral> aye 10:25:55 <Terkhen> heh 10:33:45 *** Elukka [Elukka@89-166-103-135.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined #openttd 10:37:19 *** Sacro [~ben@150.237.48.99] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 10:37:39 *** Sacro [~ben@150.237.48.99] has joined #openttd 10:40:55 *** michi_cc [~michi@dude.icosahedron.de] has left #openttd [] 10:40:55 *** michi_cc [~michi@dude.icosahedron.de] has joined #openttd 10:40:58 *** mode/#openttd [+v michi_cc] by ChanServ 10:51:26 *** Biolunar [mahdi@blfd-4d0863ae.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 11:05:25 <Eddi|zuHause> no, google, i do not want to give you my phone number... 11:05:53 <Noldo> but why???! 11:06:38 <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: just use +1.6502530000 11:07:06 <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: what's that? 11:07:43 <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: (obviously) one of Google's phone numbers ;) 11:09:35 <__ln__> Eddi|zuHause: every good citizen shares not only their own phone number but their whole contact lists with google. 11:16:43 <Elukka> every citizen will have their contact lists recreated by facebook from data taken from your acquaintances who let them use theirs, whether you want it or not or have anything to do with facebook 11:18:14 <Eddi|zuHause> none of my acquaintances really uses facebook 11:19:28 <__ln__> facebook also collects data on people who are not members. 11:20:33 <Eddi|zuHause> yes 11:21:04 <Eddi|zuHause> but the more removed the next person using facebook is from me, the less data they get 11:23:28 <Elukka> yeah 11:24:22 <Elukka> i don't use facebook, don't want anything to do with it, still got a LOOK, ALL THESE FRIENDS OF YOURS USE IT TOO email 11:24:51 <Eddi|zuHause> i never got one of those 11:25:15 <__ln__> and spotify made the ingenious decision that new users can only register through facebook. 11:31:42 <Eddi|zuHause> luckily, spotify is not available in my country, then. 12:04:54 *** Brianetta [~brian@188-220-91-30.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd 12:05:33 <Yexo> Eddi|zuHause: random_switch works if you apply that simple patch? 12:05:41 <Eddi|zuHause> looks like it 12:06:19 <Yexo> thanks :) 12:08:08 *** Adambean [AdamR@82.hosts.reece-eu.net] has joined #openttd 12:09:06 *** Neon [~Neon@dslb-178-004-191-222.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd 12:09:53 *** glx [glx@2a01:e35:2f59:c7c0:c4f7:1428:2ea1:1b93] has joined #openttd 12:09:56 *** mode/#openttd [+v glx] by ChanServ 12:10:45 <Eddi|zuHause> next i need the cb23 patch commited :) 12:10:57 <Yexo> right :p 12:11:49 <Eddi|zuHause> when is devzone's nml updated so i know when it's safe to push my changes? 12:17:43 <Yexo> the nml nightly is build about 10 minutes before the grf nightlies are build 12:17:52 <Yexo> so around 18:10 12:18:22 <Eddi|zuHause> oberhÃŒmer enabled build on push for some reason 12:21:54 <planetmaker> Then... it'll fail till the nightly is built 12:25:34 <Eddi|zuHause> exactly. and that's why i asked when that is 12:30:04 <planetmaker> 19:20 or so 12:30:35 <planetmaker> it's in cet 18:10 iirc 12:36:30 <planetmaker> yes. NML is compiled at 19:10h CEST 12:53:15 *** enr1x [~kiike@62.57.225.29.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #openttd 12:56:54 *** erik1984 [~erik1984@vhe-490300.sshn.net] has quit [Quit: Doei!] 12:59:44 <z-MaTRiX> bb 13:02:10 *** z-MaTRiX [~matrix@index.linuxsecured.net] has quit [Quit: rehashing] 13:10:39 *** blathijs_ is now known as blathijs 13:13:40 *** Kurimus [~stabbity@dsl-tkubrasgw3-fe93dd00-34.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #openttd 13:27:49 <Belugas> hello 13:27:58 <planetmaker> hallo Belugas 13:28:07 <Belugas> salut mec! 13:28:16 <Belugas> it's THURSDAY!!!! 13:30:42 <Eddi|zuHause> yesterday was WEDNESDAY!!! 13:31:19 <Eddi|zuHause> 11EINUNDELFZIG 13:35:14 <Belugas> wednesday... what a boring day... 13:37:28 <TrueBrain> pink! 13:37:38 <Belugas> floyd! 13:37:45 <TrueBrain> President! 13:42:26 *** Wolfsherz [~Wolfsherz@46.115.21.117] has joined #openttd 13:44:42 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~Flex@i59F6A77C.versanet.de] has joined #openttd 13:50:02 *** HerzogDeXtEr1 [~Flex@i59F6D347.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 13:57:34 *** Wolfsherz [~Wolfsherz@46.115.21.117] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:17:01 *** TWerkhoven [~twerkhove@cpc14-linl7-2-0-cust28.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 14:34:55 *** z-MaTRiX [~matrix@index.linuxsecured.net] has joined #openttd 14:37:00 <z-MaTRiX> hi 14:37:42 <planetmaker> 'lo 14:39:39 <z-MaTRiX> 10 seconds of recording took 6MB on my "new" webcam 14:41:10 <planetmaker> sounds little 14:41:29 <z-MaTRiX> recompressed using lavc and got 1.1MB 14:41:35 <z-MaTRiX> ;/ 14:42:16 <z-MaTRiX> maybe if i get the lighting right there will be less noise that must be compressed 14:43:23 <planetmaker> what format was the 6MB in? 14:43:33 <z-MaTRiX> ogv 14:43:53 <z-MaTRiX> 640x480x30fps i guess 14:44:21 <planetmaker> do you care about lossless or not lossless? 14:44:38 <Eddi|zuHause> i'd care about latency 14:44:41 <z-MaTRiX> no, just tried out 14:44:50 <z-MaTRiX> latency is low 14:44:57 <z-MaTRiX> i have realtime kernel 14:45:05 <Eddi|zuHause> but better compression is usually taking longer 14:45:11 <z-MaTRiX> 30fps looks ok 14:45:17 <z-MaTRiX> ahm i see 14:45:32 <planetmaker> @calc 30*640*480*3 14:45:32 <DorpsGek> planetmaker: 27648000 14:45:37 <planetmaker> @calc 30*640*480*3 / 1024**2 14:45:37 <DorpsGek> planetmaker: 26.3671875 14:45:46 <z-MaTRiX> dont know havent tried any special programs yet 14:46:04 <planetmaker> any computer should be able to stream that to disk w/o compression 14:46:33 <z-MaTRiX> probably :) 14:46:37 <planetmaker> thus you can use the strongest one which just doesn't pile up memory (if the campera writes images into a queue) 14:46:53 <z-MaTRiX> its usb 2.0 14:47:14 <Eddi|zuHause> that is really unimportant... 14:47:53 <z-MaTRiX> yes well was thinking about bandwidth will not cause images to queue 14:48:19 <z-MaTRiX> usb 1.1 would be 12Mbit/s and should be enough for 640x480x30fps anyway 14:48:35 <Eddi|zuHause> but my personal experience is that a/v asynch gets noticeable at around 100ms 14:48:45 <Eddi|zuHause> that's up to 3 frames 14:49:03 <Eddi|zuHause> so that's around the time it should take at maximum to compress one frame 14:49:04 <z-MaTRiX> dont know what would cause that 14:49:20 <planetmaker> it *really* depends on what you want to do and record with the webcam, Eddi|zuHause 14:49:37 <Eddi|zuHause> (at least if you want to transmit stuff) 14:49:56 <z-MaTRiX> ahm you thinking about streaming it through net right? 14:50:01 <z-MaTRiX> not recording video 14:50:02 <planetmaker> even then. Who cares about 100ms latency on the status of the coffee machine? 14:50:39 <Eddi|zuHause> depends on whether the communication is one-way or two-way 14:51:36 <z-MaTRiX> btw you can get very cheap webcams nowadays, and they are better than security cameras 14:51:48 <z-MaTRiX> - for a webcam... 14:52:04 <Eddi|zuHause> latency is the time between initiating an action and seeing the result of that action 14:52:13 <planetmaker> so you "misuse" on as security cam? 14:52:25 <z-MaTRiX> misuse :) haha 14:52:31 <z-MaTRiX> a camera is a camera no? 14:52:43 <planetmaker> mostly yes 14:53:10 <z-MaTRiX> well actually thinking about warranty-vioding it 14:53:15 <planetmaker> but I'd not do everything with every camera and some are suited better for one thing or the other 14:53:23 <Eddi|zuHause> occasionally people disagree whether a "Quellen-TKÃ"-trojan is a "Onlinedurchsuchung"-trojan :p 14:54:11 <planetmaker> which is by rule of the constitutional court (and also otherwise) very different things 14:54:22 <planetmaker> If only our minister for internal affairs would see that... 14:54:48 <planetmaker> he's supposed to protect the constitution and not advocate violation of it despite contrary rulings... 14:54:50 <z-MaTRiX> its funny this cam doesnt have new windows drivers, but works instantly on linux 14:56:40 <z-MaTRiX> btw did you know opera and google has spyware servers? 14:57:26 <planetmaker> ? 15:09:55 *** LordAro [~lordaro@host86-156-236-122.range86-156.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 15:10:05 <z-MaTRiX> lpp01m01-in-f120.1e100.net:http ; fx-in-f147.1e100.net:http 15:10:15 <z-MaTRiX> sitecheck2.opera.com 15:10:54 <LordAro> afternoons 15:18:44 <Terkhen> hi LordAro 15:18:58 <LordAro> hi Terkhen 15:20:49 *** sla_ro|master [~slaco@95.76.27.160] has joined #openttd 15:22:44 *** hanf [~Klaus@host-78-146-186-132.as13285.net] has joined #openttd 15:31:22 <LordAro> i'm getting bored of ubuntu's little problems 15:31:30 <LordAro> how does changing to debian sound? 15:32:38 <Terkhen> that's was my reason for trying debian after years of ubuntu being the only distro I knew how to use 15:37:12 <LordAro> and your result? 15:38:15 <Eddi|zuHause> so... how do i set train property 1A (sort purchase list) in nml? 15:38:45 <Terkhen> debian is fine, but I ended up changing to arch because I wanted to experiment a bit 15:38:50 <Terkhen> next time, I'll probably install debian agian 15:40:57 <Yexo> Eddi|zuHause: you'd have to wait for #2856 to be implemented 15:42:54 <Eddi|zuHause> i'd do that right away, but i don't know enough about the internals of nml 15:43:27 <Yexo> sort_vehicles(veha, vehb, vehc, ...); <- is that syntax ok for you? 15:44:36 <Eddi|zuHause> it should be a fairly trivial thing, something like: for vehicle in vehicle_list[:-1]: write(prop_1A = vehicle_list[-1]) 15:44:48 <Yexo> that was my plan exactly 15:45:14 <Eddi|zuHause> syntax looks alright 15:47:56 <LordAro> Terkhen/whoever: cool, i think i'll probably do that in the near future. just 1 thing to check - (most) programs that run under ubuntu will also work with debian, yes? 15:48:08 <Yexo> I'll make it sort_vehicles(FEAT_TRAINS, veha, vehb...); for easier coding 15:49:02 <Terkhen> LordAro: debian and ubuntu are very similar (ubuntu is still using a lot of stuff from debian IIRC) so it should feel similar 15:49:07 <Eddi|zuHause> or make it sort(FEAT, [a, b, ...])? 15:49:18 <Eddi|zuHause> may make it more obvious 15:49:22 <Terkhen> also, a program that works in a linux distribution should work in all of them 15:49:27 <Yexo> that sounds good 15:49:35 <Terkhen> unless something strange happens or you are not running the same DE 15:49:50 *** Brianetta [~brian@188-220-91-30.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:50:13 <LordAro> DE? (development environment?) 15:50:20 <Terkhen> desktop environment 15:50:44 <Terkhen> gnome, kde and so on 15:50:52 <Terkhen> even then they should work too 15:51:02 <Terkhen> but you can get some strange things :P 15:52:06 <Eddi|zuHause> for KDE apps it should usually only require to have KDE installed, they usually run under all other DEs as well 15:52:33 <LordAro> ah :) 15:52:53 <LordAro> that leads onto the next question: which DE? 15:53:07 <Terkhen> debian uses gnome 15:53:08 <LordAro> (do you use/like most) 15:53:19 <Terkhen> gnome 2, which is the one I'm used to work with 15:53:21 <Eddi|zuHause> don't ever ask such questions 15:53:34 <Terkhen> :P 15:54:34 <Eddi|zuHause> with 100 people in the channel, chances are you'll get 120 different answers and 3 flamewars 15:54:55 <Terkhen> don't teach everyone how to troll easily either :P 15:55:21 <LordAro> :) 16:08:01 *** Bluelight [~chatzilla@47.80-202-82.nextgentel.com] has joined #openttd 16:24:09 *** Prof_Frink [~proffrink@5e0a9627.bb.sky.com] has joined #openttd 16:33:15 *** joho^_^ is now known as joho 16:35:29 <Eddi|zuHause> Yexo: actually this would be enough for me right now: www.informatik.uni-halle.de/~krause/vehicle_list_sort.diff 16:38:23 <Yexo> I'll have an implementation of "sort(feat, [veh_a, veh_b]);" within an hour 16:38:51 <Eddi|zuHause> well, you have only half an hour until nml is built :) 16:39:09 <Eddi|zuHause> and i'm sure it makes sense to provide both methods 16:39:49 <peter1138> the original music sounds weird with fluidsynth 16:40:03 <peter1138> (with the fluid sf2) 16:47:41 <LordAro> within an hour? within 10 mins more like :) 16:47:44 <Yexo> Eddi|zuHause: sort-statement is in 16:47:52 <peter1138> hurr 16:47:55 <Yexo> I've attached your patch to the issue tracker but won't commit it now 16:48:03 <peter1138> midi on the sb live sounds a bit flat 16:48:37 <peter1138> hmm, the end of the intro theme seems to have the start of the next track 16:48:57 <Eddi|zuHause> alright 16:49:17 <Eddi|zuHause> now i need to ponder sorting algorithms 16:49:26 <Eddi|zuHause> i mean ordering 16:49:32 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: yexo * r23040 /trunk/src/build_vehicle_gui.cpp: -Add: [NewGRF] allow use of newgrf textstack during callback 23 16:49:35 <Eddi|zuHause> not how-to-sort :) 16:51:01 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: yexo * r23041 /trunk/src/strings.cpp: -Codechange: rename slightly unclear parameter name 16:51:33 <peter1138> hurr, the 4-6-0 king arthur is broked :S 16:51:55 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: yexo * r23042 /trunk/src/ (strings.cpp strings_func.h): -Codechange: make case_index an explicit parameter of GetStringWithArgs instead of hiding it in the stringid parameter 16:52:09 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@nsc.ciup.fr] has joined #openttd 16:52:59 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: yexo * r23043 /trunk/src/strings.cpp: -Fix: allow the use of cases only for those cases where strgen allows them and reset the case_index properly after {DATE} and {DATE_LONG} codes 16:53:35 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: yexo * r23044 /trunk/src/strings.cpp: -Codechange: reorder parameter order so we can make use of the default=0 more often 16:57:09 *** valhalla1w [~valhallas@vpn91.ext.espci.fr] has joined #openttd 16:58:58 <Eddi|zuHause> http://paste.openttdcoop.org/show/657/ <-- what am i doing wrong? get "unexpected token: ';'" 16:59:08 <Eddi|zuHause> without ; i get "unexpected end of file" 16:59:55 <planetmaker> remove the last , 17:00:12 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: that should really not be a problem 17:00:13 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@nsc.ciup.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:03:30 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: also happens without that , 17:05:03 <Eddi|zuHause> + raise generic.ScriptError("Second parameter is not an array of one of the items in it could not be reduced to a constnat numer", self.pos) <-- typo "of"->"or" 17:05:06 <Yexo> Eddi|zuHause: the function is called "sort" as you suggested, not "sort_vehicles" 17:05:14 <Eddi|zuHause> oh 17:05:46 <Yexo> the comma is allowed 17:06:07 <Yexo> the error should be improved, but that's more work 17:06:33 <Eddi|zuHause> right, getting new error now. this time a real one :) 17:06:39 <Eddi|zuHause> i can solve that one :) 17:08:00 *** Brianetta [~brian@188-220-91-30.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd 17:08:21 <Eddi|zuHause> i need another refactoring, i think... 17:10:52 *** Alberth [~hat@a82-95-164-127.adsl.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 17:10:55 *** mode/#openttd [+o Alberth] by ChanServ 17:18:34 *** pugi [~pugi@dyndsl-091-096-061-096.ewe-ip-backbone.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:19:17 *** pugi [~pugi@dyndsl-091-096-058-010.ewe-ip-backbone.de] has joined #openttd 17:28:02 *** TWerkhoven2 [~twerkhove@cpc14-linl7-2-0-cust28.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 17:32:07 *** TWerkhoven [~twerkhove@cpc14-linl7-2-0-cust28.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:42:29 <z-MaTRiX> nahm 17:42:37 <z-MaTRiX> voided warrant of my webcam 17:42:52 <z-MaTRiX> now it can see infrared 17:43:29 <peter1138> useful 17:43:40 <z-MaTRiX> :) 17:44:47 <z-MaTRiX> sounds like you dont like the idea 17:45:09 <peter1138> my video camera has a switch to enable "night mode", heh 17:45:19 <z-MaTRiX> cool 17:45:27 <z-MaTRiX> and i have remoed the IR filter 17:45:34 <peter1138> though it goes all green, heh 17:45:57 <z-MaTRiX> *removed 17:46:38 <z-MaTRiX> my mobile phone had night mode too 17:46:52 <z-MaTRiX> but that only adds blur 17:46:59 <peter1138> heh? 17:47:10 <z-MaTRiX> (more exposure time) 17:47:44 *** supermop [~daniel_er@rrcs-72-43-171-87.nyc.biz.rr.com] has joined #openttd 17:47:51 *** mahmoud [~KEM@ALyon-158-1-13-84.w90-29.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #openttd 17:48:29 * SpComb sets aperture to f/0.8 17:49:08 * planetmaker just bought 70mm @ f/2.8 ;-) 17:49:23 <z-MaTRiX> ;> 17:49:35 <z-MaTRiX> do you make IR photos? 17:49:49 <planetmaker> no, why? 17:49:58 <z-MaTRiX> i saw some interesting ones 17:50:01 <planetmaker> at least not normally 17:50:14 <planetmaker> making IR photos usually requires also some hardware modification 17:50:19 <LordAro> hai Alberth, get my pm? 17:50:20 <planetmaker> and specific lenses 17:50:36 <Alberth> yep, you got mine? :) 17:50:51 <LordAro> nope! :) 17:50:56 <planetmaker> z-MaTRiX, but... if I need it... I have an IR camera 4 doors further down the hallway :-P 17:51:05 <LordAro> (i.e. haven't looked) 17:51:40 <z-MaTRiX> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infrared_photography 17:51:56 <Alberth> phew! (was afraid I didn't press 'send') :) 17:52:53 <Eddi|zuHause> anyone have python magic to shorten expressions like "x if f(x) else y", to avoid repeating the x? 17:53:39 <peter1138> "f(x) ? x : y" ? :p 17:54:08 <peter1138> or i don't quite understand you 17:54:21 <b_jonas> Eddi|zuHause: make a function for it 17:54:34 <b_jonas> so you just write foo(x,f,lambda: y) 17:54:34 <planetmaker> https://picasaweb.google.com/107191069901530811927/Beobachtungen#5656433830612933586 <-- rather a bit of HDR, z-MaTRiX ;-) 17:54:44 <b_jonas> use a better name instead of foo 17:54:55 <Alberth> LordAro: http://www.google-melange.com/gci/homepage/google/gci2011 <-- just found this 17:55:23 <SpComb> Eddi|zuHause: x = ... 17:55:40 <planetmaker> http://devs.openttd.org/~planetmaker/patches/m51_color.jpg <-- like that 3*30min exposure 17:55:50 <Eddi|zuHause> SpComb: that cannot be used inside an expression 17:56:23 <Eddi|zuHause> peter1138: that's exactly what this already is 17:56:28 <SpComb> use a statement then :p 17:56:54 <Eddi|zuHause> SpComb: but functional programming is way more beautiful :) 18:00:34 <Alberth> you're using the wrong language :) 18:01:49 <z-MaTRiX> http://www.smashingmagazine.com/2009/01/11/40-incredible-near-infrared-photos/ 18:01:51 <z-MaTRiX> :) 18:02:54 *** LordAro [~lordaro@host86-156-236-122.range86-156.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:07:24 *** Borgso [~nirox@94-246-44.52.3p.ntebredband.no] has joined #openttd 18:08:53 *** Zuu [~Zuu@h-114-141.a98.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #openttd 18:15:25 <Alberth> Eddi|zuHause: x or y :) 18:17:02 <Alberth> it is only a few miles outside 'pythonic' 18:20:38 <Eddi|zuHause> Alberth: that requires lazy evaluation on "bitwise" or :) 18:20:45 <blathijs> Alberth: (filter(f, [x]) + [y])[0] ? 18:21:02 <blathijs> uh, s/Albert/Eddi|zuHause/ 18:21:15 <Alberth> Eddi|zuHause: luckily python does that :) 18:21:33 <blathijs> Alberth: Isn't the f() gone in your "x or y" ? 18:22:19 <Alberth> good point, forgot about f() :( 18:22:28 <blathijs> Eddi|zuHause: (I know the filter thing is quite ugly, but it doesn't repeat the x, like you asked, and 'filter' was the first thing that came to my mind when you said something about "return x if f(x) is true) 18:22:49 <Yexo> (lambda a,b: a if a else b)(x, y) <- even more ugly 18:22:56 <Eddi|zuHause> blathijs: hm, that might be interesting 18:23:22 <Alberth> Yexo: if f(a) :) 18:23:26 <Yexo> yes, ok :) 18:24:16 <Alberth> Eddi|zuHause: write a function like the one by Yexo, and use that 18:24:49 <Eddi|zuHause> basically i have a sequence of operations, and i need the first non-zero result 18:25:08 <Eddi|zuHause> so filter may do exactly that 18:26:06 <blathijs> Eddi|zuHause: sequence of operations, or sequence of operands? 18:26:16 <blathijs> filter does the latter, but a smart lambda might of course fix that 18:26:17 <Eddi|zuHause> sequence of operations 18:27:08 *** mahmoud [~KEM@ALyon-158-1-13-84.w90-29.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:28:54 *** hanf [~Klaus@host-78-146-186-132.as13285.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:29:09 <Alberth> print next(x for x in [0,0,0,12,13] if x) 18:29:28 <Alberth> oh 'if f(x)' of course 18:29:28 <SpComb> for x in l: if x: return x 18:29:48 <Yexo> spcomb: that's a statement, no longer an expression 18:30:00 <SpComb> it's a function definition body 18:30:23 <Eddi|zuHause> that's the same thing 18:30:59 <Eddi|zuHause> i don't think SpComb has quite grasped the meaning of functional programming :) 18:32:02 <SpComb> I don't think Eddi has grasped the point in writing Python code :p 18:32:07 <Yexo> def getval(list): return list[0] if f(list[0]) else getval(list[1:]) 18:32:22 <SpComb> unles this is all esoteric something 18:32:49 <SpComb> what concrete state/code do you have now? Pastebin? 18:32:50 <Eddi|zuHause> the filter thing works well, thanks blathijs 18:33:19 <Eddi|zuHause> https://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/cets/repository/revisions/8447189ba06b/diff/scripts/generate.py 18:33:44 <Eddi|zuHause> still room for improvement :) 18:34:01 <SpComb> uck 18:34:05 *** pjpe [ade6a119@ircip1.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 18:34:20 <SpComb> slightly wtf 18:34:30 <Eddi|zuHause> SpComb: it's a simple sorting function :) 18:37:00 <Terkhen> see you tomorrow 18:37:06 <Alberth> bye Terkhen 18:37:22 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc15-aztw25-2-0-cust3.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 18:37:23 <SpComb> Eddi|zuHause: you're trying to be too clever or something 18:37:37 <SpComb> it's obfuscated code 18:37:47 <Alberth> except filter filters over all values instead of upto the first non-zero one :) 18:37:50 <Eddi|zuHause> SpComb: i'm trying to remove redundancy 18:37:57 <SpComb> then write helper functions 18:38:08 <Eddi|zuHause> Alberth: small detail 18:38:12 <SpComb> first(cmp(table[key1][item], table[key2][item]) for item in ("...", ...)) 18:38:29 <SpComb> and define those string keys somewhere not-inline 18:38:53 <SpComb> or something 18:39:09 <SpComb> takes way too much seeking to read that code 18:39:34 <Alberth> and it has too many lambdas :) 18:41:12 <michi_cc> Eddi|zuHause: There are quite some "pure white" warnings in CETS, is that the code or the sprites? 18:41:27 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-590fc388.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 18:42:00 <Eddi|zuHause> michi_cc: https://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/2924#note-190 but i have not heard back from oberhÃŒmer yet 18:43:21 <Eddi|zuHause> Alberth: ooh, i was about to add more lambdas :p 18:46:15 <Alberth> you should use 'def' instead :) 18:48:31 *** Zuu [~Zuu@h-114-141.a98.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:50:25 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@95.237.235.128] has joined #openttd 18:50:46 <Wolf01> evenink 18:54:29 <Eddi|zuHause> http://paste.openttdcoop.org/show/658/ <-- new state of the code 18:55:32 <Eddi|zuHause> should use more "map", i think... 19:02:08 <valhalla1w> Eddi|zuHause: I prefer the (x["allowed" for x in (table[key1], table[key2])) syntax 19:02:14 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: yexo * r23045 /trunk/src/build_vehicle_gui.cpp: -Change: copy 6 registers to newgrf textstack after cb23 instead of 4 19:02:30 <andythenorth> good day 19:02:43 <Eddi|zuHause> valhalla1w: maybe 19:02:47 <valhalla1w> and besides, it would be more readable to extract a cmp(a,b) method 19:03:23 <planetmaker> hello andythenorth 19:03:28 <Alberth> hi andythenorth 19:03:31 <Eddi|zuHause> valhalla1w: how do you mean? 19:03:44 <valhalla1w> Eddi|zuHause: sec, let me get creative 19:04:07 * Alberth ponders about 'metal fabrication plant' 19:04:10 <Eddi|zuHause> valhalla1w: most of these things are strings 19:04:47 <andythenorth> Alberth: ponders about the translation? 19:04:58 <Alberth> yep 19:05:11 <Alberth> especially the 'metal' part :) 19:05:15 <andythenorth> it's a bit of a cheat industry 19:05:38 <andythenorth> in the current economy it's mostly this: http://www.stonebridgeiron.com/Metal-Fabrication-Plant-c14.html 19:05:39 <Alberth> I have now a 'parts factory' 19:06:15 <Eddi|zuHause> does that fabricate metal, or fabricate stuff from metal? 19:06:24 <valhalla1w> oh, it's slightly more difficult than I thought 19:06:25 <valhalla1w> hmm 19:06:33 <andythenorth> it fabricates and paints metal parts 19:07:16 <andythenorth> depending how you interpret it, they could be anything from large custom parts for construction (building materials), to 10,000 car doors per week 19:07:29 <planetmaker> Alberth: "Metallwaren-Fabrik" 19:07:30 <andythenorth> presses, stamps, cuts, welds metal 19:07:37 <planetmaker> maybe you can Dutch-y-fy that ;-) 19:07:40 <andythenorth> then paints it (hence chemicals) 19:07:40 <Alberth> like metal fabrication plant parts :p 19:08:30 <Alberth> it needs the 'metal' bit too in the name, I guess 19:08:59 <andythenorth> doesn't have to if it translates better another way 19:09:13 <andythenorth> it's only there to make it easy to figure out the chain + what it does 19:09:32 <valhalla1w> Eddi|zuHause: argh, and it's actually pretty elaborate -_- 19:10:10 <Eddi|zuHause> valhalla1w: unless you have a really genious idea, i'll leave it at that now 19:10:32 <valhalla1w> Eddi|zuHause: using 'or' instead of filter might be a start ;-) 19:10:48 <valhalla1w> oh, no, that doesn't work either 19:10:49 <valhalla1w> ARGH 19:10:52 <valhalla1w> ok, ignore me ;-) 19:11:10 <valhalla1w> but adding two lines of comments 'this does this' might be a good idea 19:11:12 <valhalla1w> and a line 19:11:30 *** Brianetta [~brian@188-220-91-30.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Quit: TschÃŒÃ] 19:11:34 <valhalla1w> '# wasted time on improvements: 15 minutes' 19:11:44 <andythenorth> Alberth: is 'metal workshop' clear? 19:12:21 <Eddi|zuHause> valhalla1w: you mean like this? https://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/cets/repository/revisions/1d885e1d5bd3/diff/scripts/generate.py 19:12:36 *** Brianetta [~brian@188-220-91-30.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd 19:14:00 <valhalla1w> Eddi|zuHause: yes, that helps 19:14:36 <valhalla1w> Eddi|zuHause: actually: it does the same as 'or' 19:14:47 <valhalla1w> 0 or -1 or 1 or 0 == -1, 0 or 0 or 1 or -1 or 0 == 1 19:15:08 <Eddi|zuHause> maybe, but the list syntax is cleaner, i think 19:15:19 <Eddi|zuHause> could fold on "or" 19:15:45 <valhalla1w> yeah, the or syntax is not really clear either 19:16:03 <Eddi|zuHause> but that again involves iterating over all items, so it's no improvement 19:17:20 <Alberth> andythenorth: oh, you changed that too, and I really liked my translation :p 19:17:29 <andythenorth> "just saying" 19:18:34 <Alberth> I am working on the list provided by check_language from top to bottom :p 19:20:36 *** Zuu [~Zuu@h-114-141.a98.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #openttd 19:20:46 <Yexo> the check_language script should ignore strings with cases instead of reporting them as superfluous 19:22:06 <Alberth> it should also allow for noting 'current translation is correct' 19:24:05 *** mahmoud [~KEM@ALyon-158-1-13-84.w90-29.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #openttd 19:24:54 <Yexo> that needs either external storage or modifying the language file without changing anything, ie by adding/removing a space before the colon 19:27:55 <Alberth> it needs a proper translation web service :p 19:28:03 <Eddi|zuHause> who wanted to extend webtranslator for grfs again? :p 19:28:23 <Yexo> TrueBrain, where are you? :p 19:30:14 <Alberth> hmm, why do you always see errors after a commit? :p 19:30:49 <Eddi|zuHause> that's some kind of natural law :) 19:31:17 <TrueBrain> Yexo: in Leiden, why? 19:40:57 *** mahmoud [~KEM@ALyon-158-1-13-84.w90-29.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:42:22 *** KritiK [~Maxim@93-80-48-33.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #openttd 19:46:20 *** Kurimus [~stabbity@dsl-tkubrasgw3-fe93dd00-34.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [] 19:49:27 *** Lakie [~Lakie@host86-190-25-185.wlms-broadband.com] has joined #openttd 19:58:13 *** Bluelight [~chatzilla@47.80-202-82.nextgentel.com] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.87 [Firefox 7.0.1/20110928134238]] 19:58:58 <blathijs> Hmm, can you iterate a list-of-lists in a list comprehension in Python? 20:00:08 <andythenorth> probably 20:00:12 <andythenorth> if you're smart enough 20:00:23 <andythenorth> list comprehensions are a bit unpythonic 20:00:36 <Eddi|zuHause> fold the list of lists? 20:00:39 <andythenorth> they're very cool, but can be baffling 20:00:45 <Alberth> blathijs: yep, [x for xl in L for x in xl] 20:01:02 <andythenorth> meh 20:01:19 <andythenorth> what's wrong with lots of 'for i in foo:' stuff 20:01:20 <andythenorth> :P 20:01:26 <blathijs> andythenorth: Are they? I found the pretty functional and neat, having worked with Haskell for a year or so :-) 20:01:27 <Eddi|zuHause> i did something like that once, but don't remember it 20:01:46 <blathijs> Alberth: I don't think that worked 20:02:03 <andythenorth> blathijs: simple ones are very neat, they can get complex 20:02:15 <blathijs> Alberth: Oh wait, it does 20:02:22 <blathijs> Alberth: I had the for's reversed 20:02:45 <TrueBrain> *facedesk* 20:02:46 <TrueBrain> :D 20:02:50 * andythenorth is not a great python coder 20:03:13 <blathijs> I had expected the fors in a list comprehension to be processed in reverse order, but apparently they aren't 20:03:34 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: if you never properly learned functional languages, you'll find no benefits of list comprehensions 20:03:35 <Alberth> no, just from left to right, except for the final expression 20:03:51 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: I never properly learned functional languages :) 20:04:12 <andythenorth> it's when you nest list comprehensions that it can be baffling 20:04:13 <andythenorth> http://docs.python.org/tutorial/datastructures.html#nested-list-comprehensions 20:04:16 *** Biolunar_ [mahdi@blfd-5d82046e.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 20:04:34 <andythenorth> I would prefer the verbose version 20:04:38 <blathijs> Alberth: I guess that's the reason I expected the reverse; the final expression is at the left :-) 20:05:02 <andythenorth> complex nested list comprehension smells of one coder showing off, leaving the next guy thinking 'wtf?' 20:05:29 <Alberth> blathijs: just plain mathematics: { z | x\in X, y\in Y, z = x+y } 20:05:50 <blathijs> Alberth: Good point :-) 20:06:25 <blathijs> andythenorth: In this case, it's finding out the maximum label length from a list of widgets, so that's still pretty clear with a comprehension 20:06:37 <blathijs> it's just that the list got nested just now, so I needed to adapt it :-) 20:06:49 <blathijs> It works now, though. Thanks guys :-) 20:07:29 <Eddi|zuHause> blathijs: it may be better to use a recursive funtion 20:07:45 <Eddi|zuHause> or you'll rewrite this again for the next level of lists 20:08:00 * andythenorth doesn't really grok functional programming 20:08:03 <blathijs> Eddi|zuHause: It's not nested arbitrarily 20:09:13 <Alberth> andythenorth: it is mostly about expressing some algorithm in a neat and tidy way 20:09:54 <Alberth> ie you don't need extra variables, initialization, and other clutter around it 20:10:53 *** Biolunar [mahdi@blfd-4d0863ae.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:11:29 *** Alberth [~hat@a82-95-164-127.adsl.xs4all.nl] has left #openttd [] 20:12:50 * andythenorth always thinks functional programming looks like lego :P 20:12:52 <Eddi|zuHause> non-functional functions like list.sort are tricky 20:13:03 <andythenorth> map | reduce is usually functional? 20:13:26 <Yexo> Eddi|zuHause: there is also the function "sorted" 20:13:45 <Eddi|zuHause> Yexo: i never remember these things 20:14:20 <blathijs> Strong typesystems associated with some functional languages are also a blessing, IMHO 20:14:34 <blathijs> The typechecker usually found 99% of the bugs I coded into my Haskell programs :-) 20:15:05 <Eddi|zuHause> i could use with some static typechecking in python 20:16:25 <Yexo> me too 20:18:33 <Eddi|zuHause> what also might be useful is a syntax like "def func(param1:type1, param2:type2) that automatically generates an "assert isinstance(param1,type1)" etc. 20:19:54 <blathijs> I guess that's not very duck-typy 20:20:53 <Eddi|zuHause> blathijs: yes, isinstance kinda contradicts this paradigm 20:21:12 *** FFLaguna [FFLaguna@76.85.129.212] has joined #openttd 20:21:29 <Eddi|zuHause> so there also needs to be an isduck(var, type) 20:21:39 <Eddi|zuHause> where type is an interface i need 20:22:25 *** Adambean [AdamR@82.hosts.reece-eu.net] has quit [Quit: Gone fishing] 20:22:41 <FFLaguna> Hello, is there a command or setting to let everyone start with ,000,000 in a multiplayer game? :) 20:22:55 <Eddi|zuHause> FFLaguna: no 20:23:04 *** mahmoud [~KEM@ALyon-158-1-13-84.w90-29.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #openttd 20:23:26 <Eddi|zuHause> FFLaguna: everyone can just go to the finance window, and ctrl+click on lend money 20:24:15 <Eddi|zuHause> (or is it "borrow"?) 20:24:32 <Yexo> borrow 20:24:51 <FFLaguna> Can I change how much they can borrow, initially? 20:25:03 <Yexo> anyway, start the multiplayer game, create all companies, save game, open in singleplayer, cheat money for all companies, save game, load in multiplayer 20:25:12 <Eddi|zuHause> FFLaguna: yes, in the difficulty settings 20:25:34 <FFLaguna> Eddi - Does that work on multiplayer? I seem to recall that even though I could loan 0,000 in a game I was hosting, everyone else could only loan 0k 20:25:46 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: just try casting it 20:25:53 <andythenorth> with try: except: 20:26:00 <Yexo> FFLaguna: yes, it works in a multiplayer game 20:26:06 <andythenorth> first try, then ask forgiveness 20:26:08 <Yexo> as for your example, are you sure everyone was using the same currency? 20:26:20 <Yexo> perhaps you could loan 600k dollar and the other players 300k pounds 20:26:28 <FFLaguna> Odd 20:26:36 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: enough variations on str(var), int(var) etc. will tell you what it is :P 20:27:08 <andythenorth> although you have to pass errors silently, which is considered to be A Very Bad Thing 20:27:11 <FFLaguna> Yexo - I'll try starting multiplayer and editing in singleplayer 20:27:16 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: exceptions don't mix well with functional programming 20:28:04 <planetmaker> FFLaguna: different currency might fool you into believing that different players have available different amounts of loan 20:28:18 <planetmaker> but... yexo said so already :-) 20:42:32 * andythenorth ponders 20:44:49 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-590fc388.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:44:57 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: any ideas about improving the sort order? i'm not finding a good way to ensure passenger and mail wagons stick together 20:45:50 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: patch ottd? 20:45:50 <andythenorth> :P 20:46:23 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: not sure how that's going to help 20:46:25 <andythenorth> what's the issue? 20:46:34 <andythenorth> nml provides the IDs for you? 20:46:51 * planetmaker hasn't yet looked at that. 20:47:11 <planetmaker> What stops you to script it such that passengers are put there first, mail 2nd etc? 20:47:21 <planetmaker> or how is it done currently? 20:47:35 <Eddi|zuHause> currently i sort by refittable cargo classes 20:47:59 <planetmaker> hm 20:48:04 <andythenorth> leave it to players? 20:48:12 <andythenorth> the list is sortable in game... 20:48:25 <Eddi|zuHause> and that is a lexicographic sort 20:48:36 <Eddi|zuHause> so it depends on the names of the cargo classes 20:49:36 <Eddi|zuHause> so i need some exception for the passenger and mail cargo classes 20:51:57 * andythenorth ponders FIRS station rating algo. 20:52:07 <andythenorth> might need tweaking 20:52:13 <andythenorth> or might be near-perfect 20:52:21 <FFLaguna> Does the dev version of OTTD have a lot of important changes not found in the latest stable? 20:52:47 <andythenorth> yes 20:53:12 <andythenorth> you can use dev versions of of several newgrfs for starters 20:53:13 <andythenorth> :) 20:53:18 <FFLaguna> Ah, found the changelog 20:53:18 <Wolf01> 'night 20:53:21 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@95.237.235.128] has quit [Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.] 20:54:03 <FFLaguna> Oh, doesn't really look like that many changes, to be honest 20:55:08 *** Neon [~Neon@dslb-178-004-191-222.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: Python is way too complicated... I prefer doing it quickly in C.] 20:59:15 <Rubidium> there not being a lot of important changes in the dev version means that we release often enough ;) 20:59:37 <Rubidium> also the number of important changes that can be done diminishes over time 21:01:13 * planetmaker wouldn't want to do without the newgrf changes, though ;-) 21:02:54 * andythenorth ponders changing FIRS grfid 21:03:53 * planetmaker brought up that idea but currently thinks "wait till 1.2 beta and don't change it" ;-) 21:04:38 <FFLaguna> Exactly, seems the last release was in September :) 21:05:34 <planetmaker> FFLaguna: releases which bring new features are only once per year really ;) 21:05:53 <planetmaker> so to see what is added you have to go back to everything since about March 21:06:18 <planetmaker> around the year we add to the stable branch only bug fixes 21:06:30 <andythenorth> good night 21:06:35 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc15-aztw25-2-0-cust3.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 21:06:40 <planetmaker> g'night Andy... 21:18:47 *** DDR_ [~chatzilla@142.179.78.88] has joined #openttd 21:21:25 * Yexo wonders what changelog FFLaguna found 21:25:51 <FFLaguna> http://us.binaries.openttd.org/binaries/nightlies/trunk/r23044/changelog.txt 21:25:52 <FFLaguna> This one 21:25:56 <FFLaguna> Seems it's just for one build, though 21:26:09 *** KenjiE20 [kenjie20@free.blinkenshell.org] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:26:46 <Yexo> that one seems to be fore amore than a single build 21:29:10 <Eddi|zuHause> it's by far not the complete list of changes since last major release 21:29:11 <planetmaker> yeah... that seems like one nightly's changelog 21:29:24 <planetmaker> or a few maybe 21:30:17 <Yexo> http://vcs.openttd.org/svn/browser/ or http://hg.openttd.org/openttd/trunk.hg/shortlog you can browse through all changes 21:30:25 <planetmaker> http://hg.openttd.org/openttd/trunk.hg/shortlog <-- tells me it's the work of 8 days 21:30:55 <Yexo> r22082 was the 1.1 branch, so almost all features introduces after that are not in 1.1 21:31:29 <planetmaker> did we port a single _feature_? 21:32:13 <Yexo> - Feature: [NewGRF] Allow to filter by town of the current industry when using industry variable 0x68 [FS#4591] (r22434) 21:32:22 *** z-MaTRiX [~matrix@index.linuxsecured.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:32:34 <Yexo> and a few more in 1.1.0-RC1, but nothing significant 21:35:38 *** KenjiE20 [kenjie20@free.blinkenshell.org] has joined #openttd 21:42:51 *** Chruker [~no@5634a56d.rev.stofanet.dk] has joined #openttd 21:44:48 *** DDR_ [~chatzilla@142.179.78.88] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:45:39 *** Chruker [~no@5634a56d.rev.stofanet.dk] has quit [] 21:46:20 *** Chruker [~no@5634a56d.rev.stofanet.dk] has joined #openttd 21:51:04 *** mahmoud [~KEM@ALyon-158-1-13-84.w90-29.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:00:19 *** Lakie [~Lakie@host86-190-25-185.wlms-broadband.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:04:57 *** mahmoud [~KEM@ALyon-158-1-126-110.w90-29.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #openttd 22:21:35 <FFLaguna> Can anyone give me the main new features of the latest dev builds, compared to the stables? 22:21:51 <FFLaguna> What are the big changes that come to mind first? 22:23:02 <Eddi|zuHause> lots of new newgrf features 22:23:42 <FFLaguna> Anything that interfaces with 2cc Trainset and NuTracks? 22:24:01 <KenjiE20> ohai FFLaguna 22:24:21 <Eddi|zuHause> not that i know of 22:24:54 <FFLaguna> Subways on NuTracks... you still have to bulldoze the houses and roads in cities to build subways? 22:25:03 <Yexo> yes 22:25:04 *** Biolunar_ [mahdi@blfd-5d82046e.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: All your IRC are belong to us!] 22:25:12 <FFLaguna> Okay 22:25:14 <KenjiE20> nightlies generally you'll get the new features as they get made, and all of their associated bugs 22:25:22 <FFLaguna> Right, Kenji 22:25:34 <KenjiE20> sometimes, that's server breaking :p 22:25:49 <Eddi|zuHause> FIRS uses some of the new newgrf features 22:26:15 <Eddi|zuHause> and CETS, but that doesn't really count yet :) 22:26:49 <KenjiE20> you could probably ask in #openttdcoop.devzone for a more direct/verbose answer 22:26:58 <FFLaguna> Hmm... how does FIRS integrate with ECS? Are they compatible? Nothing on the wiki page about it 22:27:40 <Eddi|zuHause> no. it's an either-or thing 22:27:40 <FFLaguna> Or are they mutually exclusive? 22:27:42 <planetmaker> 100% incompatible 22:27:56 <FFLaguna> I see 22:27:59 <KenjiE20> they both break industires equally? :P 22:27:59 <FFLaguna> So which is better? ;) 22:28:09 <Eddi|zuHause> yes- 22:28:10 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1C5C4.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:28:40 <KenjiE20> FFLaguna: have a dig about in the coop archive's I think we've had both ecs and firs games in the past 22:28:51 <Elukka> my opinion is FIRS is better designed and it has more consistently good graphics 22:29:02 <Elukka> but fundamentally which is better is entirely subjective 22:29:15 <Yexo> heh, I just went over the changelog looking for commits starting with -Feature. From the last 6 months, we have some minor things to do with transparancy, some gui tweaks, and besides that only newgrf features 22:29:30 <KenjiE20> :) 22:29:46 <FFLaguna> Yexo - Oh, thank you very much 22:29:50 <KenjiE20> Yexo: don't forget undocumented features :) 22:30:01 <Eddi|zuHause> Yexo: you miss the "Add YACD" and "Add more height levels" :p 22:31:11 <planetmaker> rivers 22:31:33 <Yexo> hmm, I did miss that one 22:31:56 <planetmaker> -Add: ... probably 22:32:17 <Yexo> yep 22:32:21 <Yexo> (svn r22767) -Add: river generation 22:32:25 <planetmaker> :-) 22:32:56 <Eddi|zuHause> blame Rubidium for being too good at hiding things :) 22:33:00 *** DayDreamer [~DayDreame@ip-86-49-59-175.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #openttd 22:33:21 <Eddi|zuHause> why is nobody interested in this? http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=56112 22:34:16 *** ptr [~peter@c213-89-142-224.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #openttd 22:34:18 *** Cybertinus [~Cybertinu@tunnel3304.ipv6.xs4all.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:34:33 <Elukka> dunno 22:34:35 <Elukka> looks much better to me 22:34:40 <Elukka> might even make me use fences 22:38:09 <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause: was it ever posted to FS? 22:38:22 <Eddi|zuHause> don't think so 22:38:49 <planetmaker> it looks better, yes... but now is really sleeping time :-) Good night 22:39:23 <ptr> guten nacht 22:40:14 *** Zuu [~Zuu@h-114-141.a98.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:01:53 *** sla_ro|master [~slaco@95.76.27.160] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:02:07 *** TWerkhoven2 [~twerkhove@cpc14-linl7-2-0-cust28.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: He who can look into the future, has a brighter future to look into] 23:08:50 *** Pikka [~Figgy@d110-32-24-75.rdl800.qld.optusnet.com.au] has joined #openttd 23:13:34 *** DayDreamer [~DayDreame@ip-86-49-59-175.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:17:36 *** supermop [~daniel_er@rrcs-72-43-171-87.nyc.biz.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:19:14 *** appe [appe@noskapin.krot.se] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:19:16 *** appe [appe@noskapin.krot.se] has joined #openttd 23:45:41 *** ptr [~peter@c213-89-142-224.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Quit: Zzzzzz] 23:46:22 *** appe [appe@noskapin.krot.se] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:47:35 *** Chruker [~no@5634a56d.rev.stofanet.dk] has quit [] 23:50:36 *** appe [appe@noskapin.krot.se] has joined #openttd 23:50:48 *** DDR_ [~chatzilla@142.179.78.88] has joined #openttd 23:51:28 *** orudge [~orudge@owenrudge.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]