Config
Log for #openttd on 24th November 2012:
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01:41:19  <ChileStuff> Anyone alive?
01:43:07  <ChileStuff> oh well
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01:44:27  <Eddi|zuHause> yes.
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01:45:36  <supermop> Eddi|zuHause: that guy has a graphics problem, was asking about it in the other channel
01:45:46  <supermop> sounds like a problem with his card
01:46:14  <supermop> anyway
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01:47:14  <ChileStuff> Guess I left too soon eddi
01:47:33  <ChileStuff> :P
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01:48:23  <Eddi|zuHause> good.
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08:08:29  <Terkhen> good morning
08:08:37  <Sturmi> u2
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08:59:44  <planetmaker> moin
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11:02:46  <Wolf01> hello
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11:08:04  <Alberth> moin Wolf01
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11:27:37  <planetmaker> hello Alberth :-)
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11:45:34  <MNIM> Bah.
11:45:42  <MNIM> my depots are bottlenecking.
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11:55:23  <Flygon> I recommend multiple depots and lines
11:55:35  <Flygon> A bit like how stables/depots work irl
11:56:00  <Flygon> Basically, long multiple tracks
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12:56:07  <MNIM> I had two depots and waiting lines in and out for each in each direction, and a quad mainline passing by them
12:56:40  <MNIM> now there's three depots with waiting lines.
12:56:57  <MNIM> so now in both directions that piece of track is 10 wide.
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13:47:53  <Flygon> MNIM, can you show me what you mean?
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14:17:02  <Wolf01> bbl
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15:27:46  <MNIM> Flygon: wait a sec, not sure if I still have a save from before
15:28:53  <MNIM> nope, sorry
15:30:37  <MNIM> (WARNING unresized screen) http://www.fileden.com/files/2009/1/1/2248324/OTTD/Sendtown%20Transport%2C%204th%20Mar%201992.png
15:30:43  <MNIM> current situation.
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15:40:09  <Sturmi> you could build one depot per waiting bay
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15:47:20  <ChileStuff> Greetings
15:48:02  <ChileStuff> Any functionally cognitive denizens available?
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15:49:52  <frosch123> nope, only bots
15:50:12  <ChileStuff> heh
15:50:37  <ChileStuff> I have an odd video bug I could use help with
15:51:17  <frosch123> win8?
15:51:38  <ChileStuff> colors go all pastel and rainbow on me and looks somewhat pixelated ... no w7
15:51:50  <frosch123> fullscreen?
15:51:55  <ChileStuff> yup
15:52:10  <frosch123> disable desktop slideshow (or whatever it is called)
15:52:15  <ChileStuff> It also does it very briefly when loading, just a flash
15:52:21  <frosch123> or go to openttd.cfg and set fullscreen_bpp to 32 or something like that
15:52:32  <ChileStuff> Kewl
15:52:36  <ChileStuff> Thanx
15:52:38  <Rubidium> i.e. what is documented in known-bugs.txt
15:53:38  <frosch123> told him we are only bots :p
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15:55:58  <ChileStuff> lol
15:56:59  * ChileStuff goes back to building empires
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16:07:33  <supermop> hi
16:07:41  <Alberth> hi
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16:08:14  <supermop> how's it going?
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17:11:59  * peter1138 ponders ... playing ...
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18:45:24  <DorpsGek> Commit by translators :: r24761 /trunk/src/lang (german.txt lithuanian.txt) (2012-11-24 18:45:16 UTC)
18:45:25  <DorpsGek> -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
18:45:26  <DorpsGek> german - 2 changes by planetmaker
18:45:27  <DorpsGek> lithuanian - 48 changes by Stabilitronas
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19:17:51  <andythenorth> lo
19:17:55  <peter1138> no
19:18:49  <andythenorth> k
19:19:06  <andythenorth> I'll try again later, maybe it will be then
19:21:34  <Alberth> andythenorth:  http://paste.openttdcoop.org/show/1952/
19:22:41  <andythenorth> Alberth: \o/
19:23:12  <Alberth> hmm, bad diff; basically  s/ {}/{}/   and  't' of supplies -> crates
19:25:40  <andythenorth> want to commit?
19:25:46  <andythenorth> might as well ;)
19:30:04  <Alberth> done :)
19:35:50  * andythenorth pulls
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19:55:55  <andythenorth> any forum stuff?
19:56:14  <Alberth> nah, nothing there
19:56:31  <andythenorth> lame :P
19:57:26  <Alberth> yeah, I am wondering what is happening; perhaps everybody is buying xmas stuff?
19:58:16  <andythenorth> some kind of online sales or something this weekend
20:00:13  <andythenorth> Alberth: seen the regions stuff from fr*sch123
20:00:14  <andythenorth> ?
20:00:33  <Alberth> I have, looks good
20:02:45  <Alberth> so the whole world is online shopping?
20:05:32  <andythenorth> not me :P
20:05:42  <andythenorth> I have everything I need and everything I want :P
20:05:51  <andythenorth> or at least that I can buy easily :P
20:06:20  <andythenorth> oh, perhaps they're buying for other people :o
20:06:23  <andythenorth> how odd :P
20:07:39  <Alberth> the only thing I bought today was a bit of electricity, some heat, and some Internet bandwidth :)
20:08:43  <Alberth> I tried playing FIRS today, but I got annoyed at the problems of finding cargo connections
20:09:25  <Alberth> someone should extend the industry chain window with a cargo to select from
20:20:38  <frosch123> yeah, you always have to find a industry first, which procudes stuff :p
20:23:14  <Alberth> would "FS#3799 - Would be nice to have a way to get cargo acceptance/production for a station" be useful to add to the TODO list?
20:24:59  <frosch123> looks like half of it was done
20:25:11  <frosch123> Yexo wanted to have a thought about the other one :p
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20:26:05  <frosch123> ah, we do not have any flag currently at stations whether cargo is supplied
20:26:38  <frosch123> oh, i guess what the issue is...
20:26:43  <frosch123> what should it actually return?
20:27:04  <frosch123> the cargo that is currently produced? or the cargo that could be produced if the industries would be serviced with input?
20:27:17  <Alberth> in my view, the set of cargoes also displayed by the station picker window
20:27:39  <frosch123> does not sound useful at all to me
20:27:56  <frosch123> you want to know whether a specific industry is in the catchment area
20:28:26  <frosch123> so ais would rather have a function with industry id and then figure out a station location
20:28:28  <Alberth> you don't want to know whether you can get/deliver cargo X ?
20:28:44  <frosch123> why would an ai want to know whether some random industry (which produces nothing) is in range?
20:29:02  <frosch123> delivery is fine, but we already have such a function
20:29:24  <frosch123> and it returns whether cargo _is_ currently accepted (i.e. considering stockpiles denying it)
20:29:28  <andythenorth> Alberth: the industry chain window has that feature :P
20:29:31  <frosch123> but for production this makes no sense
20:29:46  <frosch123> also players it makes no sense
20:30:07  <frosch123> players want to see which industries they cover, the "supplies" display is only a rough approximation of that
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20:30:27  <frosch123> we should rather highlight the industry tiles when dragging the station area over them
20:30:52  <frosch123> ^^ we could put that on the todo list :p
20:32:08  <Alberth> #3799 is for getting that kind of information after the station has been built
20:32:33  <frosch123> then again you want a list of industries, not a list of cargos
20:32:38  <MNIM> M'fucker.
20:32:57  <frosch123> @kick mnim
20:32:57  *** MNIM was kicked from #openttd by DorpsGek [frosch123]
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20:33:09  <frosch123> anyone want to rant about autojoin? :p
20:33:11  <MNIM> Oops. language. sorry
20:33:39  <Alberth> yeah, MNIM please turn off auto-join :)
20:33:40  <MNIM> I got an epic deadlock that reaches across half of of my 1024*1024 map.
20:33:40  <frosch123> Alberth: i really see no use in a list of cargos which might be produces under unknown circumstances
20:33:52  <Alberth> ok
20:33:52  <frosch123> even for humans there should be a better way
20:36:36  <Alberth> MNIM: nice!   /me likes solving deadlocks
20:41:11  <MNIM> Alberth: have fun! XD
20:41:12  <MNIM> http://www.fileden.com/files/2009/1/1/2248324/OTTD/Alpine%202B.sav
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20:45:33  <MNIM> D'oh. I see the cause.
20:45:38  <frosch123> Alberth: i added a comment to the fs task, but yexo and zuu might have a better idea :)
20:45:53  <Alberth> just pull one train into the depot, and it moves again :)
20:45:58  <frosch123> awh, i cannot even highlight zuu :(
20:46:11  <MNIM> and it's some very, very retarded signal placement
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20:52:17  <Alberth> just remove the signal :)
20:54:00  <MNIM> That's what I did, and I added some rail
20:56:25  <Alberth> we need multi-tile depots :p
20:57:17  <andythenorth> 'need' is a strong word :P
20:57:31  <andythenorth> ctrl-click to join?
20:57:35  <supermop> i already did that
20:57:39  <supermop> (fakely)
20:58:02  <Eddi|zuHause> multi-tile depots and switchyards would make a lot of sense if you at the same time limit the number and length of trains that fit in
20:58:33  <andythenorth> even without that
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20:58:38  * MNIM agrees with Alberth
20:58:39  <supermop> also if you let consists change
20:58:41  <andythenorth> it makes routing easier
20:58:44  <MNIM> multitile depots!
20:58:54  <MNIM> do so much want.
20:59:04  <andythenorth> fewer deadlocks when using 'service in depot orders'
20:59:17  <andythenorth> and if breakdowns are on, 'service in depot' orders are essential
20:59:26  <andythenorth> as PBS can't route vehicles to depots
20:59:40  <andythenorth> [reliably]
20:59:42  <supermop> just build a station and rail yard outside the depot
21:00:13  <Alberth> I don't use 'service in depot' orders, I let them find one at their own time instead
21:00:17  <MNIM> It would be nice to retain the buffer function that depots currently have, though
21:00:38  <andythenorth> Alberth: you don't notice that they frequently fail to find a depot?
21:00:48  <andythenorth> especially RVs, which seem to be blind to depots
21:00:58  <Eddi|zuHause> i don't usually play with servicin
21:01:00  <Eddi|zuHause> g
21:01:06  <andythenorth> I turn it off because it's broken
21:01:11  <MNIM> Alberth: I find it brings problems when depots are off the main line, or when you want trains to only go to the depot when they're empty
21:01:26  <andythenorth> hmm
21:01:34  <Alberth> MNIM: don't do that, or don't want that :p
21:01:40  <andythenorth> who wrote all this complicated python stuff without also writing docs? :P
21:01:44  <andythenorth> in FIRS
21:02:29  <Alberth> MNIM: Perhaps it has less impact with my netowrks, as I also play with breakdowns on, so my network has a lot of empty space
21:02:39  <Alberth> andythenorth: someone did, I think
21:02:49  <andythenorth> can't be me
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21:03:05  <andythenorth> I am not responsible for anything I did more than 7 days ago, I am not that person :P
21:03:43  <MNIM> how so empty space with breakdowns on?
21:04:22  <Alberth> you need room for other trains to not block all the time
21:04:42  <Alberth> so you make extra tracks to split the traffic
21:04:56  <frosch123> MNIM: you know there is a go to nearest depot order?
21:05:26  <frosch123> you can give a train a option for multiple depots, by putting a waypoint somewhere, and the putting the depots behind it
21:05:35  <frosch123> send the train to the waypoint, then to nearest depot
21:10:36  <andythenorth> my FIRS class design is flawed.  At least one of the classes behaves significantly differently depending on which parameters are passed
21:10:40  <andythenorth> confusing
21:11:03  <andythenorth> and the parameters are not orthogonal; passing two that conflict will just result in broken behaviour
21:11:10  <MNIM> frosch123: I do know, but I haven't been able to find a good purpose for it so far
21:12:44  <frosch123> i use it to service many vehicles (which a single depot cannot handle) at a defined point on the routr
21:12:47  <frosch123> route
21:13:09  <frosch123> but maybe i missed the topic :p
21:13:30  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: care to elaborate?
21:16:17  <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: this will behave quite differently depending whether a value for 'type' is passed http://paste.openttdcoop.org/show/1955/
21:16:59  <andythenorth> the templates tell the rest of the story, but you don't need to see all that :P
21:17:26  <Eddi|zuHause> so "type" should be a subclass, you mean?
21:17:48  <andythenorth> possibly
21:17:54  <Eddi|zuHause> class GroundSpriteset(Spriteset)
21:18:07  <andythenorth> more likely I should subclass for GroundSpriteset yes
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21:18:41  <andythenorth> then elsewhere check what class I have, instead of checking the value of type
21:19:10  <andythenorth> I don't have any bugs from the current code, it's just weird
21:19:22  <Alberth> the code *knows* what class it is in :)
21:20:17  <Alberth> MNIM: don't you get crazy from all those new vehicle announcements?
21:20:48  <andythenorth> as usual, I have code that works, but it will look funny to other people :P
21:28:14  <Alberth> that's normal :p
21:28:23  <MNIM> new vehicle announcements?
21:28:46  <Alberth> the best indication is that you look at your code, and think "that can be done better"
21:28:49  <MNIM> oh, you mean the new available vehicles
21:28:53  <Eddi|zuHause> i get crazy from prototype offers for vehicle types that don't interest me
21:29:06  <Eddi|zuHause> like a dozen trucks of cargos that i don't transport by truck
21:29:10  <MNIM> they can be annoying, but it's not every day
21:29:46  <Alberth> you can't even quietly watch the trains :)
21:29:50  * andythenorth -> bed
21:29:54  <Alberth> good night
21:29:58  <andythenorth> converting these classes will have to wait :P
21:30:00  <andythenorth> bye
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21:33:54  <MNIM> D'oh.
21:34:13  <MNIM> solved one deadlock, created another with all trains trying to go to an inaccessible depot
21:38:54  <Alberth> :)
21:39:15  <Alberth> I added some tracks so trains could get out faster
21:39:45  <Alberth> and then it sorted itself out
21:39:48  <Alberth> good night
21:40:21  <frosch123> upload it as scenario to bananas: resolve the jam :)
21:40:38  <Alberth> this one is too easy :)
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21:41:27  * MNIM prefers 'natural' solutions which don't require (too much) extra rails
21:42:02  <frosch123> "natural solutions"? you mean crash all trains?
21:42:03  <MNIM> but yeah, I'll double-up that depot, the other depot(s) on this line already are doubled
21:42:33  <MNIM> frosch123: no, that's for when Im in a bad mood :P
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21:56:20  <Kitty> 26
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22:00:09  <Wolf01> hello
22:08:41  <Terkhen> good night
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22:20:07  <frosch123> night
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23:24:22  <MNIM> Whoops.
23:24:49  <MNIM> I just realized that one neglected line I'm still running steam engines... in 1998
23:25:28  <MNIM> those are some truly hardy old grampas!
23:25:55  <Pinkbeast> Welp, China's still running QJs...
23:26:06  <MNIM> elswhere on the map Ive got trains regularly passing 300kmh and here I am running a good old little steam line, frequently single-track, too
23:26:35  <MNIM> Pinkbeast: I know, but aren't those only for coal mine transports?
23:26:59  <MNIM> the coal transports were actually the first line to be electrified in this game XD
23:27:25  <Pinkbeast> Yes - the economics of steam are different if you have a lot of cheap labour and you're on top of an open-cast coalmine. :-)
23:29:39  <supermop> MNIM: think of it as a preserved historic line
23:30:44  <Pinkbeast> It's a great pity one can't actually do that
23:31:14  <MNIM> heh. I might actually just electrify the tracks and add some electric trains, but keep the steamers, because I can
23:31:36  <Pinkbeast> In UKRS1 I've certainly run one or two lines with 5ATs
23:31:42  * MNIM looks
23:31:55  <MNIM> nope. won't electrify that just yet
23:32:49  <MNIM> I'll just dieselize it and add another type of train to my growing list.
23:33:40  <Pinkbeast> Ick, diesels
23:34:49  <MNIM> well, it's that or electrifying a pretty long track
23:35:16  <Pinkbeast> Doesn't the track conversion tool still drag out into a square?
23:35:24  <MNIM> yes
23:35:38  <Pinkbeast> Electrify the world!
23:36:04  <MNIM> I can't be bothered... also, electrifying that will likely empty my bank account.
23:36:22  <MNIM> I'm playing with nutracks.
23:36:44  <Pinkbeast> Goodness me, what sort of game are you playing where money's an issue in 1998? Oh, but with nutracks you can't just blindly electrify the world, indeed.
23:38:42  <MNIM> I've got trains that earn me 6mil a year, but electrifying a meandering track of more than 400 squares as the bird flies still costs a bit. :P
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