Times are UTC Toggle Colours
00:25:33 *** kero [~keikoz@202.4.69.86.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Quit: kero] 00:43:23 *** oskari89 [oskari89@62-241-226-106.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit [] 00:49:24 *** gelignite [~gelignite@i528C3082.versanet.de] has quit [Quit: http://bit.ly/nkczDT] 00:54:29 *** KritiK [~Maxim@0001264a.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:04:39 *** fjb is now known as Guest7389 01:04:40 *** fjb [~frank@000158aa.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 01:11:31 *** Guest7389 [~frank@000158aa.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 01:22:58 *** glx [~glx@000128ec.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: Bye] 01:47:35 *** roadt [~roadt@114.96.139.225] has joined #openttd 01:54:08 <Eddi|zuHause> meybe we should get rid of these hysterical names "DOS palette" and "Windows palette" 01:54:25 <Supercheese> +1 01:54:48 <Eddi|zuHause> suggestions for alternative names? 02:13:18 <planetmaker> openttd and crippled 02:13:38 <planetmaker> (as openttd anyway converts everything to DOS palette) 02:16:13 <Eddi|zuHause> i was aiming for something slightly more neutral... :) 02:16:22 <planetmaker> :-) 02:16:23 <Eddi|zuHause> like "original" and "alternate" 02:17:38 <planetmaker> problem is... renaming that to new 'standard names' will be like http://xkcd.com/927/ 02:18:07 <Eddi|zuHause> i'm sure of that :) 02:18:13 <planetmaker> I wonder though whether we should disable the 'palette' button when the NewGRF supplies an action14 which defines palette 02:18:30 <Eddi|zuHause> that probably makes sense 02:18:44 <planetmaker> (unless newgrf developer :) ) 02:18:55 <Eddi|zuHause> was about to say that :) 02:19:05 <planetmaker> hm... but we haven't read the newgrf in that window... gah 02:19:15 <planetmaker> hm... or we do? 02:19:21 <planetmaker> we likely do 02:22:06 <Eddi|zuHause> i'm pretty sure that info is available 02:22:54 <planetmaker> likely 02:22:59 <planetmaker> somehow 02:23:15 <Eddi|zuHause> but do we distinguish between "set by action14" and "guessed by advanced setting"? 02:23:24 <planetmaker> dunno 02:24:35 *** namad7 [~aaaaa@pool-96-236-139-72.pitbpa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #openttd 02:25:26 <planetmaker> I hope GRFConfig would know 02:31:24 *** roboboy [~robotboy@0001164c.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 02:31:56 <planetmaker> should know it... newgrf.cpp:7195 ChangeGRFPalette 02:33:27 <planetmaker> but ... GRF_P_GRF_UNSET is not propagated... 02:34:20 <Eddi|zuHause> that is what i meant 02:47:26 <planetmaker> newgrf_config.cpp:59ff... should be available :-) 02:47:54 <planetmaker> default values of 0 means: no info provided. That can be queried 02:53:40 *** Sarah-Beth [~Sarah-Bet@cpe-67-255-86-176.maine.res.rr.com] has joined #openttd 02:53:40 <Sarah-Beth> I'm in a Live Adult Video Chat Room Naked - http://bit.ly/1aV6Bk4 02:53:42 *** Sarah-Beth [~Sarah-Bet@cpe-67-255-86-176.maine.res.rr.com] has left #openttd [] 02:58:13 *** SarahBeth-CHAT [~SarahBeth@cpe-67-255-86-176.maine.res.rr.com] has joined #openttd 02:58:13 <SarahBeth-CHAT> I'm in a Live Adult Video Chat Room Naked - http://bit.ly/1aV6Bk4 02:58:15 *** SarahBeth-CHAT [~SarahBeth@cpe-67-255-86-176.maine.res.rr.com] has left #openttd [] 02:58:55 <planetmaker> @kban *!*SaraBeth@*!* 02:58:55 <DorpsGek> planetmaker: Error: *!*SaraBeth@*!* is not in #openttd. 02:59:27 *** mode/#openttd [+b *!*SarahBeth@*!*] by planetmaker 02:59:56 *** mode/#openttd [+b *!*@cpe-67-255-86-176.main.res.rr.com] by planetmaker 03:11:17 <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause, http://devs.openttd.org/~planetmaker/patches/no_palette_change.diff 03:33:41 *** Japa [~Japa@117.201.97.27] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:57:18 *** retro|cz [~retro@ip-78-45-93-251.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #openttd 04:55:25 *** xT2 [~ST2@2.81.249.40] has joined #openttd 04:56:01 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p5DC66C19.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [] 04:56:16 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p57BD429D.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 04:58:14 *** ST2 [~ST2@37.189.144.29] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 04:58:14 *** xT2 is now known as ST2 05:37:46 *** roadt_ [~roadt@114.96.131.160] has joined #openttd 05:44:30 *** roadt [~roadt@114.96.139.225] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 05:46:51 *** Pereba_ [~UserNick@177.98.115.89] has joined #openttd 05:52:52 *** Pereba [~UserNick@177.40.221.62] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 05:52:56 *** Pereba_ is now known as Pereba 06:58:09 *** sla_ro|master [slamaster@85.186.160.35] has joined #openttd 07:17:41 *** Pensacola [~quassel@h220216.upc-h.chello.nl] has joined #openttd 07:40:08 <V453000> hmmm, any hints on how could I make a *0.7 expression into a switch block? If I just use X: 50*0.7; then I get this expression cannot be used if I use 0.7 , 0,7 gives "invalid token" 07:40:30 <V453000> *7/10? :D 07:41:46 <V453000> hm that seems to work, lets see which value I get 07:46:27 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc10-aztw26-2-0-cust867.18-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 07:53:19 *** Alberth [~hat@a82-95-164-127.adsl.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 07:53:20 *** mode/#openttd [+o Alberth] by ChanServ 07:53:20 *** Djohaal_ [~Djohaal@177.43.128.175] has joined #openttd 07:53:37 *** ntoskrnl [~not@a91-153-231-146.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #openttd 07:53:37 <Alberth> hi hi 07:57:52 *** Alice3 [~Alice@cpc18-grim14-2-0-cust478.12-3.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 07:59:26 <V453000> hi 07:59:37 <V453000> yay x*7/10 works :D 08:00:40 *** Djohaal [~Djohaal@186.212.211.20] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 08:00:45 <Alberth> euhm, ok :) 08:01:10 <andythenorth> o/ 08:01:12 <andythenorth> also bye 08:01:16 <Alberth> bye 08:01:19 <andythenorth> chores 08:01:20 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc10-aztw26-2-0-cust867.18-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has left #openttd [] 08:01:26 <V453000> is there any more sane way to do -30% ? 08:01:38 <V453000> meh, this thing works, good enough 08:01:40 <V453000> dont bother :D 08:02:03 <Alberth> I think 7/10 is a good solution for -30% :) 08:02:54 <Alberth> although I am always troubled by the fact that (X-30%)+30% is not X 08:03:01 <V453000> :d 08:03:03 <V453000> :) 08:03:10 <V453000> dont need that 08:04:16 <Alberth> I know, but it means there is a mathematical bug in the % concept ;) 08:04:43 <V453000> XD 08:04:50 <V453000> feature 08:04:53 <Alberth> :D 08:05:25 <Rubidium> Alberth: it's just because you write it with the syntactic sugar 08:05:52 <Rubidium> > X * 0.7 * 1.3 08:06:37 <Alberth> >>> 0.7*1.3 08:06:37 <Alberth> 0.9099999999999999 <-- see, not 1.0 08:07:18 <Rubidium> Alberth: without the syntactic sugar it's clearer that it's not going to yield the same 08:08:03 <Alberth> true 08:09:32 <Alberth> it sort-of defeats the idea of relative increasing/decreasing :( 08:11:24 <V453000> nver do math on meth 08:11:48 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1AE9C.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 08:16:46 *** Elukka [~Elukka@a91-152-213-89.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #openttd 08:19:04 *** mouseym [~mouseym@host-92-3-230-74.as43234.net] has joined #openttd 08:39:31 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@host180-136-dynamic.244-95-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #openttd 08:39:42 <Wolf01> hi hi 08:44:11 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1AE9C.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:49:29 <Alberth> o/ 08:50:19 *** TomyLobo [~foo@91-65-113-111-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #openttd 08:57:53 *** Pensacola [~quassel@h220216.upc-h.chello.nl] has quit [Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.] 08:58:11 *** Pensacola [~quassel@h220216.upc-h.chello.nl] has joined #openttd 08:59:33 *** Supercheese [~Superchee@98.145.157.55] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90.1 [Firefox 23.0.1/20130814063812]] 09:04:21 *** montalvo [~montalvo@host86-176-132-167.range86-176.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 09:12:10 *** oskari89 [oskari89@62-241-226-106.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined #openttd 09:12:10 *** jjavaholic [~jjavaholi@grahamg63.plus.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:17:27 *** jjavaholic [~jjavaholi@grahamg63.plus.com] has joined #openttd 09:17:35 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@s55978e11.adsl.online.nl] has joined #openttd 09:27:56 *** Biolunar [mahdi@blfd-4d08e035.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 09:29:22 *** valhalla1w [~valhallas@s55978e11.adsl.online.nl] has joined #openttd 09:31:10 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@s55978e11.adsl.online.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 09:31:22 *** Pensacola [~quassel@h220216.upc-h.chello.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:38:16 *** Devroush [~dennis@dD5765BAC.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd 09:39:58 *** DDR [~chatzilla@154.20.134.39] has quit [Quit: DDR is not Dance Dance Revolution.] 09:47:27 *** gelignite [~gelignite@i528C3FE1.versanet.de] has joined #openttd 09:50:52 *** tokai|mdlx [~tokai@port-92-195-45-115.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #openttd 09:56:04 *** tokai|noir [~tokai@00012860.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 10:14:54 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc10-aztw26-2-0-cust867.18-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 10:15:05 <andythenorth> 'because I really like bubble land' 10:15:06 <andythenorth> :( 10:16:09 <NGC3982> I had a dream this night about being abled to put go-to orders depending on the state of a signal. 10:20:42 <Alberth> andy, kid didn't want to get out of the bath? 10:35:31 <andythenorth> toyland 10:36:03 * Alberth likes toyland too! \o/ 10:36:11 *** montalvo [~montalvo@host86-176-132-167.range86-176.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzzâŠ] 10:37:11 * V453000 doesnt say anything 10:39:36 <Eddi|zuHause> the opposite of -30% is +40%, obviously :) 10:40:20 <V453000> Eddi is evil I almost went to check it with calculator 10:40:37 <Eddi|zuHause> @calc 0.7*1.4 10:40:37 <DorpsGek> Eddi|zuHause: 0.98 10:40:44 <Eddi|zuHause> close enough :) 10:41:36 <Eddi|zuHause> @calc sqrt(2) 10:41:36 <DorpsGek> Eddi|zuHause: 1.41421356237 10:41:42 <Eddi|zuHause> @calc sqrt(2)/2 10:41:42 <DorpsGek> Eddi|zuHause: 0.707106781187 10:42:00 <Eddi|zuHause> those are exact opposites :) 10:42:22 *** perk11 [~perk11@broadband-46-242-13-101.nationalcablenetworks.ru] has joined #openttd 10:42:36 <Alberth> duh, it's the definition of sqrt :D 10:46:48 <V453000> ._. 10:47:04 <V453000> what have I done with a simple question on train power 10:47:43 <Eddi|zuHause> Alberth: well it's not THAT obvious from the definition of sqrt that sqrt(2)/2 = 1/sqrt(2) 10:48:12 <Alberth> fair enough :) 10:52:46 *** Hendrick [~Hendrick@212.93.100.47] has joined #openttd 10:53:10 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-590fe227.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 10:57:13 *** LordAro [~LordAro@host81-148-242-150.range81-148.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 10:59:10 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc10-aztw26-2-0-cust867.18-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 11:03:13 <frosch123> to continue the topic from last night: i guess renaming the palettes to "original" and "win9x" might work 11:03:23 <frosch123> or even "normal" and "win9x" 11:03:37 <V453000> do the palettes have slugs? 11:04:50 <frosch123> does nuts have charmaelion trains meanwhile? 11:05:03 <frosch123> which try to hide on purr rails by changing their colours? 11:05:41 <V453000> charmaelion? :D 11:05:46 <V453000> you mean chameleon? 11:05:56 <V453000> chamelons are there but they change speed based on length of consist 11:06:11 <frosch123> yeah, chameleon is better. the other one is a pokemon, right? 11:06:18 <V453000> charmeleon is pokemon 11:06:25 <V453000> charmelion is a mix of charmeleon and a lion 11:06:50 <V453000> also, 0.6.0 will have trains which change stat bonuses based on which purr they are on - and obviously also some colour adaptations probably 11:07:02 <V453000> but you totally didnt rea that, top secret :> 11:07:30 <frosch123> you drank too much beer 11:07:38 <frosch123> you already told me that 3 days ago 11:09:55 <V453000> wasnt sure you connected it with your colour changing suggestion :P 11:11:49 <Eddi|zuHause> <frosch123> or even "normal" and "win9x" <-- but that still won't prevent people from thinking "i play on windows, i must change this" 11:12:25 <frosch123> sure it does. "7" is normal "9x" is old crap 11:12:53 <Eddi|zuHause> and in 5 years when windows 9 comes out? :p 11:12:55 <V453000> XD 11:13:12 <V453000> how about normal / BAAAD 11:13:13 <V453000> ? 11:13:15 <V453000> :P 11:13:32 <frosch123> hmm, maybe ms skips that number for that reason 11:13:57 <Eddi|zuHause> "Windows A" :p 11:14:11 <frosch123> Windows One ? 11:15:18 <V453000> I wouldnt call it windows if possible :D 11:15:26 <Alberth> +1 on that 11:15:27 <V453000> what is the win palette for anyway? 11:15:36 <frosch123> so "normal" and "legacy win9x-compatible"? 11:15:37 <Alberth> V453000: some people use it :( 11:15:53 <V453000> normal / wtf 11:15:58 <frosch123> V453000: for old crap, and old douchbags who use old crap even today 11:15:59 <V453000> or some similar name :) 11:16:16 <V453000> well that doesnt mean it needs to be called win, does it 11:16:23 <Eddi|zuHause> "normal" and "legacy" sound good 11:16:24 <Alberth> frosch123: I like the "legacy" idea 11:16:36 <V453000> I know many new people get confused and want to use "win" because they are on "windows" 11:16:42 <V453000> which doesnt make sense but go ask them 11:17:09 <frosch123> maybe we can obfuscate the windows: "normal (D)", "legacy (W)" 11:17:39 <V453000> normal / hysterical? 11:17:40 <V453000> :P 11:18:12 <Alberth> frosch123: yeah, I was thinking "D palette" and "W palette" but your idea better expresses preference of D :) 11:18:16 <frosch123> V453000: we need a "V" palette, which makes all colours animated 11:18:45 <Eddi|zuHause> there are pills for that :p 11:18:48 <V453000> I only make wetrails animate :( 11:18:49 <V453000> XD 11:18:53 <V453000> lol 11:19:08 <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: oh, i did not know V pillls also work that way 11:19:19 <Alberth> lol 11:19:25 *** Hendrick [~Hendrick@212.93.100.47] has quit [Quit: Truly, the end of days.] 11:19:43 <Eddi|zuHause> i'm not entriely sure either, never used any such pills :p 11:20:47 <V453000> frosch123: eat a flash disc with nuts and purr on it 11:20:51 <V453000> might have side effects 11:28:35 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc10-aztw26-2-0-cust867.18-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 11:29:31 <planetmaker> hello 11:29:48 <planetmaker> frosch123, I though maybe "default" and "legacy"? 11:30:02 <V453000> default sounds good too 11:30:11 <V453000> or default and fault? :D 11:30:18 <planetmaker> lol 11:32:04 <planetmaker> but normal and legacy... yeah, why not 11:34:25 <Alberth> the good and the bad :p 11:35:15 <planetmaker> hm... if we name D and W, we should use 'default (D)' and legacy (W) 11:35:20 <planetmaker> as then d = default :-) 11:35:23 <planetmaker> and w = wrong :P 11:35:48 <V453000> XD best 11:36:00 <Alberth> 'wegacy' :) 11:36:27 <planetmaker> w is for wimps ;-) 11:36:44 <V453000> I am surprised frosch123 isnt suggesting rainbow palette 11:36:55 <andythenorth> bonsoir 11:37:35 <V453000> hi andythenorth 11:37:43 <V453000> how in the hell does on draw shyps 11:37:47 <V453000> one* 11:37:54 <andythenorth> it takes bloody ages 11:38:03 <andythenorth> ideally one gets DanMacK and Coxx to do it 11:38:08 <V453000> I had a look at some of yours and took some slight inspiration but idk how ._. 11:38:09 <V453000> mhm :D 11:38:10 <andythenorth> ideally one starts from a render 11:38:18 <V453000> render is fakof 11:38:23 <andythenorth> shrug 11:39:15 <planetmaker> http://devs.openttd.org/~planetmaker/patches/no_palette_change.diff kinda, Alberth :-) 11:39:47 <planetmaker> 2nd hunk is kinda independent. it disables 'toggle palette' button when the newgrf defines a palette via action14 11:40:20 <planetmaker> which imho makes sense whether we rename palettes or not :-) 11:40:48 <frosch123> is "c" the right grfconfig in the second hunk? 11:41:26 <frosch123> i.e. the one from the filescanner, or the one from the game/savegame 11:41:53 <frosch123> (though i guess that only makes a difference if newgrf-tools are disabled, and scenario-tools are enabled) 11:42:14 <planetmaker> https://paste.openttdcoop.org/show/2654/ 11:42:34 <frosch123> planetmaker: STR_CONFIG_SETTING_NEWGRF_DEFAULT_PALETTE_ are missing 11:42:47 <planetmaker> hm? 11:43:03 <frosch123> there are more occurrenes of "dos" and "windows" 11:43:16 <planetmaker> ah, that you mean 11:43:19 <frosch123> anyway, i cannot tell from that code snippet whether it's the right palette 11:43:31 <frosch123> s/palette/grfconfig/ 11:43:52 <frosch123> i would just try loading a savegame with newgrf tools disabled and scenario enabled, and see whether you can change the palette 11:44:25 <planetmaker> that's what I did :D 11:44:35 <frosch123> ok :) 11:44:45 <planetmaker> though I'm unsure about my scenario_editor status 11:45:03 <frosch123> well, without it you shouldn't be able to change anything 11:45:13 <frosch123> STR_NEWGRF_ERROR_DOS_OR_WINDOWS <- there is also that one 11:45:26 <frosch123> i guess nothing we can change about that 11:45:33 <frosch123> but i guess noone uses it anyway 11:47:45 <planetmaker> yeah, that probably should stay. And only will trigger for old, umnaintained NewGRFs which try to check palette :-) 11:48:47 <planetmaker> updated patch with string change 11:49:22 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc10-aztw26-2-0-cust867.18-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 11:50:34 <frosch123> did you upload it somewhere? 11:51:42 <planetmaker> http://devs.openttd.org/~planetmaker/patches/no_palette_change.diff 11:52:34 <planetmaker> 10 minutes ago. Forgot to highlight you :D 11:52:38 <frosch123> so, you didn't :p 11:52:53 <frosch123> no, but you said you updated the patch, so i checked it again 11:53:22 <planetmaker> oh... :D 11:54:12 <planetmaker> well, now 11:54:52 <planetmaker> I'd actually keep the last hunk separate. It's something different IMHO 11:54:59 <frosch123> Default uppercase and legacy lowercase? 11:55:06 <frosch123> i guess both should be uppercase 11:55:11 <planetmaker> yup 11:55:18 <frosch123> sure, last hunk should be different patch 11:55:34 <frosch123> i am unsure whether to trash the translations from all languages 11:55:51 <planetmaker> hm, string rename you mean? 11:56:05 <planetmaker> Might be a good idea actually 11:56:30 <frosch123> no, just "sed '/STR_CONFIG_SETTING_NEWGRF_DEFAULT_PALETTE_[WD]/ D' *.txt" 11:56:31 <planetmaker> or it will linger around for... ages :-) 11:56:52 <planetmaker> hm :-) 11:56:54 <planetmaker> or that 11:57:31 <planetmaker> it would probably trash 5 Polish translation strings. Unless I commit at 20:15h or so :-) 11:57:39 <frosch123> keeping the string ids is fine, since you also keep the GRFP constants 11:58:06 <frosch123> planetmaker: it's unlikely that polish translated just those 11:58:35 <frosch123> wt3 does not drop pending changes on commit if you mean that 11:58:39 <planetmaker> ah, you mean it's fine to touch the lang files? I always though if we commit to them, translations are... ^ 11:59:10 <frosch123> wt3 updates just fine. but noone knows what happens if you change a string via svn which is also pending 11:59:26 <frosch123> so, we usually wait when changing lots of strings 12:00:29 <planetmaker> I see 12:03:47 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc10-aztw26-2-0-cust867.18-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 12:08:01 <planetmaker> so shall I go for the two patches and commit, including string wipe? 12:08:30 <frosch123> yes 12:08:39 <frosch123> you can also put the string wipe in a third commit 12:09:00 <frosch123> if you hunger for the next party :p 12:09:10 <planetmaker> :D 12:10:02 <Eddi|zuHause> anybody as excited about the election as i am? :p 12:11:15 <planetmaker> I was already voting... I'm kinda excited. But bored by the choice 12:11:39 <planetmaker> mutti oder stinkefinger ;-) 12:11:53 <Eddi|zuHause> i'm considering voting for something i'm completely against, just to spite everybody :p 12:12:18 <planetmaker> how would you spite that way anyone but you? 12:12:35 <planetmaker> vote for something roughly in your direction, but a tiny party 12:12:46 <planetmaker> that way it has a chance to actually make a difference 12:12:54 <planetmaker> and hurt the establishment 12:13:00 <Eddi|zuHause> no, the theory is that everybody does something completely different than what they promised. so if i vote for something where i'm against most of it, they do what i want in the end :p 12:13:05 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc10-aztw26-2-0-cust867.18-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 12:13:37 <planetmaker> you sold your vote and promised to vote for <X>? :-P 12:14:20 <Eddi|zuHause> the second problem is i just ate and now i'm even more lazy than usual... 12:14:45 *** Dr_Tan [~nat@00179a279bbd.click-network.com] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 12:14:51 <V453000> PLEASE vote for a party which involves re-invading czech republic 12:14:52 <V453000> ty 12:15:09 <V453000> the mess here needs some redoing 12:16:50 *** Dr_Tan [~nat@00179a279bbd.click-network.com] has joined #openttd 12:17:25 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc10-aztw26-2-0-cust867.18-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 12:19:21 <planetmaker> V453000, then you want our current chancelor. She knows it all. And buys her will ;-) 12:20:08 <V453000> :D 12:20:11 <Eddi|zuHause> there is nearly no way the current chancellor won't be the next one, that's one of the problems with this election :) 12:20:17 <V453000> y 12:20:20 <V453000> I read that 12:21:21 <Eddi|zuHause> because "the opposition" is no uniform block, so even if the current government doesn't get a majority, the "alternate" government won't get a majority either 12:21:42 <V453000> look, communists will probably win in our election 12:21:46 <V453000> can always be worse? :D 12:21:49 <Eddi|zuHause> and any possible coalition that could come out of that situation will result in a chancellor merkel 12:24:05 <planetmaker> we shall see :-) 12:24:10 <planetmaker> in 3.5 hours 12:24:13 <frosch123> V453000: you are lucky, you are neighboured to bavaria. 50% of parties and 60% of votes are right wing here 12:25:03 <frosch123> there are usually online tests to aid you choosing your party. usually they have 1 question to separate you from right wing stuff. but in bavaria half of the questions was to differentiate the differen right wing parties :s 12:25:57 <frosch123> other than that... i just aborted a paypal payment because the site i was redirected to did not properly validate it's idenity :s 12:26:14 <frosch123> let's try a different online shop :p 12:31:29 <planetmaker> http://www.wen-waehlen.de/ is quite interesting 12:32:08 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc10-aztw26-2-0-cust867.18-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 12:32:30 <NGC3982> Darn. 12:32:38 <NGC3982> Our planning went to a complete waste 12:32:44 <NGC3982> We are to change apartment in a month 12:32:58 <planetmaker> hm, should scenario_developers be allowed to change palette as now? 12:33:24 <frosch123> you can change newgrf, then you can also change palette 12:33:26 <NGC3982> And we are already done with almost all the packaging. 12:34:02 <planetmaker> ok, so that needs changing so that it still can do that :-) 12:35:06 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc10-aztw26-2-0-cust867.18-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 12:37:35 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc10-aztw26-2-0-cust867.18-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [] 12:44:09 *** Devroush367 [~dennis@dD5765BAC.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd 12:49:39 *** Devroush [~dennis@dD5765BAC.access.telenet.be] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 12:50:50 <frosch123> hmm, i don't get the difference of the two results on wen-waehlen 12:52:52 <Eddi|zuHause> i think one is the questions that you answered, and the other is the priorities that you set in the beginning 12:53:05 <Eddi|zuHause> not entirely sure 12:53:37 <Eddi|zuHause> in the direct candidate section, it shows pretty much opposite results :p 12:53:38 <frosch123> well, one of them is as expected 12:53:55 <frosch123> but the other one has one party in the front, which is second-last on the other 12:54:12 <frosch123> that's weird :p 12:54:18 <Eddi|zuHause> i think i'll prepare to go now... 12:54:53 <Eddi|zuHause> somewhere between here and there i'll probably make up my mind :) 12:55:14 <Alberth> bring a few dice along, just in case :) 12:55:32 <Eddi|zuHause> 2x W20 :) 12:55:39 <Eddi|zuHause> there are A LOT of parties :) 12:56:03 <frosch123> well, you should be able to reduce it to 4 choices at most 12:56:17 <frosch123> otherweise you really have no opinion :p 12:56:31 <Eddi|zuHause> :) 12:58:23 <frosch123> he, the blog is nice 12:59:30 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc10-aztw26-2-0-cust867.18-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 12:59:46 *** tmsft [~id@37.140.124.50] has joined #openttd 13:00:05 <DorpsGek> Commit by planetmaker :: r25792 /trunk/src (lang/english.txt newgrf_gui.cpp) (2013-09-22 12:59:59 UTC) 13:00:06 <DorpsGek> -Change: Clarify the relevance of the permissible palettes 13:00:35 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc10-aztw26-2-0-cust867.18-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [] 13:01:24 <DorpsGek> Commit by planetmaker :: r25793 /trunk/src/lang (53 files) (2013-09-22 13:01:18 UTC) 13:01:25 <DorpsGek> -Change: Trigger update of translations for palette names 13:02:47 <AndreasB> Days in transit. Does it start after production, after loaded on train, or after train leaves station? 13:03:09 <frosch123> after loading 13:06:14 <DorpsGek> Commit by planetmaker :: r25794 trunk/src/newgrf_gui.cpp (2013-09-22 13:06:09 UTC) 13:06:15 <DorpsGek> -Change: No point to toggle a NewGRF's palette if its author declared one. 13:08:30 <AndreasB> frosch123: Ok, but % transported is based on loads not being on stations, and trains leaving quickly? 13:08:33 *** sla_ro|master [slamaster@85.186.160.35] has quit [] 13:09:19 <AndreasB> nvm 13:09:20 <AndreasB> reading now 13:10:44 <frosch123> % transported of industries is average of station rating during production periods 13:11:05 <V453000> yay :D 13:11:41 <frosch123> well, actually that's only true if there is only one station for the industry 13:11:52 <frosch123> if there are multiple stations it gets more complicated :) 13:12:00 <AndreasB> : p 13:12:05 <AndreasB> Buyt 13:12:12 <AndreasB> Basicly, im looking at game mechanics here 13:12:16 *** Dozer [Dozer@0x5e912f54.adsl.cybercity.dk] has joined #openttd 13:12:24 <AndreasB> One needs to change the trains every year 13:12:30 <AndreasB> to keep station rating up 13:12:31 <Dozer> Holy crap, didn't expect there's actually be people in here. 13:12:40 <Dozer> Didn't think the openTTD community would be this big :) 13:12:49 <V453000> pf 13:12:51 <frosch123> Dozer: you are mistaken 13:12:52 <AndreasB> Well, most are idiots doing citybuild 13:12:56 <frosch123> there is almost noone hre 13:12:57 <V453000> XD 13:13:05 <V453000> AndreasB wins a point 13:13:10 <planetmaker> measured by downloads, not even 1% ;-) 13:13:20 <AndreasB> planetmaker: what? 13:13:23 <Dozer> AndreasB what does it mean doing citybuilds? :) 13:13:29 <frosch123> Dozer: you can easily reduce the number of members here by 100 people who have never said anything 13:13:35 <AndreasB> Dozer: Om Ã¥ gjÞre Ã¥ bygge den stÞrste byen 13:13:47 <Dozer> Yeah, that's usually how IRC works :D 13:13:47 <planetmaker> English only 13:13:48 <V453000> dafuq 13:13:50 <AndreasB> Ohh :( 13:13:52 <Dozer> hahaha 13:13:56 <Dozer> Norwegian ftw :D 13:14:00 <V453000> :D 13:14:02 <AndreasB> Thats discriminating. 13:14:02 <V453000> awesome 13:14:17 <AndreasB> : p 13:14:41 <AndreasB> Kick everyone who hasnt said a word last 24 hours 13:14:42 <AndreasB> :D 13:14:47 <LordAro> D: 13:14:51 <planetmaker> would become empty 13:14:54 <AndreasB> For ops the limit is 12 hours 13:15:01 <planetmaker> lol 13:15:02 <AndreasB> planetmaker: I guess 13:15:19 <planetmaker> I'd then write a script to say '.' every 11 hours for me 13:15:23 <frosch123> oh, V's language also has fancy character, but i guess neither Ã¥ or Þ 13:15:23 <planetmaker> no-one wants that 13:15:25 <AndreasB> planetmaker: No seriously. Evne in-game.. There should be a higher .. requirement for admins to be active than players 13:15:42 <AndreasB> ÊÞå öÀ 13:15:53 <planetmaker> AndreasB, then play on servers which fulfill your 'requirement' 13:15:56 <Alberth> easily solved, make everybody a non-admin 13:16:00 <AndreasB> I'd be stuck alone :( 13:16:13 <AndreasB> Most servers never have admin presernt 13:16:14 <AndreasB> -r 13:16:27 <V453000> most :) 13:16:29 <Alberth> it sucks that you cannot make the world do what you want eh? :) 13:16:30 <planetmaker> important is that they're present when someone calls for them 13:16:39 <frosch123> oh, maybe ottd should exit after 24 hours of no rcon command 13:16:44 <AndreasB> Alberth: yeah, that bothers me daily... 13:16:44 <planetmaker> lol 13:16:53 <AndreasB> planetmaker: That I can agree on 13:17:03 <AndreasB> frosch123: haha 13:17:06 <AndreasB> noo 13:17:19 <AndreasB> but satellite stations shouldnt be possible 13:17:19 <planetmaker> AndreasB, and that requires me not to be connected to my server. 13:17:23 <V453000> ^ 13:17:27 <AndreasB> too many use them to cheat 13:17:29 <planetmaker> I'll just get a highlight on IRC ;-) 13:17:34 <V453000> admins can be on IRC, not just in game :) 13:17:44 <AndreasB> As long as people can get a hold of you from ingame 13:17:44 <V453000> in fact admins generally do not play almost at all 13:17:46 <AndreasB> then thats fine 13:17:51 <V453000> ye 13:18:10 <AndreasB> most servers dont even have admin paging system 13:18:16 <planetmaker> instructions on how to get admin attention are usually supplied by the 'better' servers 13:18:25 <AndreasB> planetmaker: Doesnt work 13:18:38 <AndreasB> take n-ice, admins are rarely even on IRC imo 13:18:43 <planetmaker> are they? 13:18:52 <AndreasB> are they what? on irc? 13:19:05 <planetmaker> I would expect them to be around 13:19:13 <AndreasB> .Me too, good luck with that though 13:19:21 <planetmaker> but... I don't play there, so I can't tell. And... take your complaint to the individual servers 13:19:23 <AndreasB> Many servers think that satellite stations are a good thing 13:19:33 <planetmaker> yes, I do think so, too 13:19:38 <AndreasB> Yeah, I can start cheating in BF3 because "some" servers have "no rules" 13:19:39 <planetmaker> sometimes 13:19:45 <AndreasB> So its OK that I cheat on every server in bf3 13:20:08 <AndreasB> no, satellite stations that are used only for coverage, is not fine. 13:20:15 <V453000> you already player on our openttdcoop servers didnt you 13:20:22 <AndreasB> huh? 13:20:27 <planetmaker> oh, you suddenly talk of another game. I would not know BF3 13:20:32 <V453000> hm guess not :) 13:20:37 <AndreasB> I am talking openttd planetmaker 13:20:43 <V453000> well, all openttdcoop servers have basically all the time at least someone present 13:20:44 <AndreasB> I just compared 13:20:46 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc10-aztw26-2-0-cust867.18-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 13:20:49 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc10-aztw26-2-0-cust867.18-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [] 13:20:56 <AndreasB> I have no idea what openttdcoop is 13:21:07 <Alberth> AndreasB: BF3 does not ring any bell here :) 13:21:11 <AndreasB> Sounds like a merge between BF3 and openttd 13:21:18 <planetmaker> elite openttd servers ;-) And yes, no idea what bf3 stands for even 13:21:29 <AndreasB> are you guys serious? 13:21:32 <planetmaker> yes 13:21:33 <AndreasB> You HAVE heard of bf3? 13:21:34 * Alberth nods 13:21:38 <AndreasB> battlefield 3... 13:21:49 <V453000> who cares tbh 13:21:54 <AndreasB> Eh 13:21:55 <planetmaker> ^ 13:21:56 <AndreasB> Entire world.. 13:22:02 <V453000> k 13:22:03 <AndreasB> waiting for bf4 13:22:04 <Alberth> wrong type of game 13:22:12 <AndreasB> Alberth: o.O 13:22:20 <AndreasB> I get to shoot people in that game 13:22:24 <AndreasB> It sure is the right kind :D 13:22:33 <V453000> kind of not the similar one to openttd 13:22:41 <AndreasB> Ok, that I cant argue on 13:24:37 <frosch123> AndreasB: you are more likely to find starcraft or dota people here 13:24:45 <AndreasB> e 13:24:46 <AndreasB> w 13:24:54 <AndreasB> Those two games are total crap, pardon me for saying so 13:24:57 <frosch123> but i guess even then the majority does not play games newer than 10 years 13:25:07 <AndreasB> Commander Keen <3 13:25:24 <frosch123> i think i played that 13:25:42 <frosch123> but there were better ones 13:25:44 * planetmaker did. a bit 13:25:49 <V453000> starcraft is crap 13:25:49 <V453000> k 13:25:54 <AndreasB> Yep 13:26:00 <AndreasB> Red Alert is aaawaeeesome! 13:26:06 * planetmaker played vgaplanets ;-) 13:26:13 <V453000> have you even played sc2? :o 13:26:21 <V453000> because I dont understand how can someone say sc2 is a bad game 13:26:38 <AndreasB> sc2 is crpa 13:26:46 <AndreasB> I guess. 13:26:52 <V453000> crpa? 13:26:57 <AndreasB> yes, crpa 13:27:04 <AndreasB> its like crap, only worse 13:27:11 <AndreasB> Its so bad if you spell it right, world goes BOOM 13:27:24 <V453000> any reasons why or it is just crap "because" ? 13:27:25 <frosch123> AndreasB: are you also one of those old guys who dislike every remake of a game? and only play stuff older than 10 years? 13:27:36 <AndreasB> frosch123: Like what? 13:27:44 <V453000> frosch123: battlefield 3 and 4 are apparently fine :) 13:27:45 <AndreasB> V453000: It's just crpa 13:27:55 <AndreasB> Dont forget BFBC2 13:27:57 <AndreasB> And ArmA 2 13:27:59 <V453000> that sounds like not the best argumentation AndreasB :) 13:28:07 <AndreasB> V453000: Never said it was. :D 13:28:17 <AndreasB> now WoW, thats crap right there 13:28:30 <planetmaker> and CLCK and QRST and AmmA and BllOOp and PooP 13:28:32 <frosch123> WoW is about old gods afaik 13:28:40 <V453000> I suppose all that just because it is not "the game where you shoot people" 13:28:41 <AndreasB> planetmaker: whaat? 13:28:54 <AndreasB> what games are that? hah 13:28:55 <planetmaker> makes as much sense as your abbreviations ;-) 13:29:00 <AndreasB> sense? 13:29:05 <AndreasB> the games name IS ArmA 2 13:29:15 <AndreasB> http://www.arma2.com/agegate/agegate.html 13:29:35 <Alberth> let me guess, you can shoot people? 13:29:41 <V453000> cant say I care about army games what so ever 13:29:59 <frosch123> i played lasertag last week with some colleagues, does that count? 13:30:11 <AndreasB> Alberth: It's an military simulator 13:30:48 <AndreasB> so yes, you can shoot people :P 13:31:14 <Alberth> I am starting to wonder why you are here :) 13:31:21 <AndreasB> Tell me, can a railroad track be too long? 13:31:27 <planetmaker> I guess OpenTTD falls into that category on grounds of the attack helicopter and fighter plane included ;-) 13:31:38 <AndreasB> lol 13:31:39 <frosch123> or because of bullet trains? 13:31:55 <planetmaker> or because of the apache newgrf 13:32:02 <AndreasB> meh 13:32:12 <AndreasB> is longer rail always better? 13:32:18 <Alberth> AndreasB: too long in what sense? some people connect everything to everything, and fill the entire world with tracks :) 13:32:25 <AndreasB> haha 13:32:33 <AndreasB> Say I want to move passengers from A to B 13:32:34 <planetmaker> what defines 'good' and what 'better'? What's your scale for success? 13:32:52 <planetmaker> amount? speed? money? station rating? 13:33:02 <AndreasB> Speed vs money vs length 13:33:15 <planetmaker> that's a 3D data cube ;-) 13:33:24 <AndreasB> %€€%&//&% 13:33:45 <AndreasB> What I mean is: lets say I move 10 people 10 blocks, and get 100$ 13:33:58 <AndreasB> I move them 20, and get 250$ 13:34:04 <AndreasB> but if I move them 30, I only get 200$ 13:34:31 <planetmaker> possibly. loading takes time and moves cargo not an inch :-) 13:34:46 <AndreasB> Am I just an idiot at explaining? 13:34:48 <Alberth> it's not that simple; train length and loading time also count, as well as eg mountains that slow down the train 13:34:51 <AndreasB> or are youtrolling me? 13:35:04 <AndreasB> Lets say straight line 13:35:11 <AndreasB> no hills 13:35:22 <AndreasB> will further always be better? 13:35:27 <planetmaker> you didn't understand my answer and call me 'trolling'? Oh well 13:36:16 <AndreasB> As days in transit increase, money decreases per unit. At some point it declines faster, do we agree? 13:36:16 <Alberth> your example already shows the counter example, right? 13:36:43 <Alberth> yep, cargo ages faster when it's beyond some age 13:37:06 <Alberth> but bringing it further gives more money, so it's a balance 13:37:06 <AndreasB> yep, so in that sense, longer isnt always better unless you can deliver in 10 days? 13:37:25 <Eddi|zuHause> ... so... how do i know i've won something now? 13:37:47 <Alberth> I don't know, I don't care for making money at all 13:37:48 <V453000> Eddi and election lottery, chapter 1? :D 13:37:52 <AndreasB> The cargo payment rates are estimated with a distance of 20 squares. Is there an easy way to recalculate? 13:38:05 <V453000> money doesnt matter in opetntd at all AndreasB 13:38:16 <AndreasB> in order to get more money for trakcs it does 13:38:23 <Eddi|zuHause> the payment graphs are somewhat useless 13:38:26 <AndreasB> But, is it possible, taking aging into account 13:38:36 <V453000> you have enough money for tracks after ~30 minutes of playing 13:38:42 <Alberth> hardly, in a matter of years you make more money than you can spend 13:38:58 <AndreasB> That maybe if I move cargo 120 squares instead of 150, I could get more money because I get more per cargo due to lower days in transit? 13:38:58 <planetmaker> that depends on your settings and choice of newgrfs and their parameters, V453000 ;-) 13:39:04 <planetmaker> we just make it easy for us 13:39:18 <V453000> sure pm but using higher costs is rather dumb, it only slows the game down, but doesnt change the logic 13:39:56 <planetmaker> V453000, but is it stupid? It's actually a challange of sorts 13:40:23 <Eddi|zuHause> it depends on if you find the "early game" or "late game" more entertaining 13:40:45 <V453000> well you wont build anything too differently 13:40:48 <V453000> just slower 13:40:54 <planetmaker> yes... and if you use GS all bets are off :-) 13:41:16 <planetmaker> will be interesting to see when the first "tax the successful players" GS appears :D 13:41:20 <Eddi|zuHause> exactly, "slower" means you have longer "early game" 13:41:39 <planetmaker> first million income in the year is free. the rest taxed with 90% :-P 13:41:41 <AndreasB> Initial cargo payment values are for delivering 100 pieces of cargo 1 tile. 13:41:43 <V453000> you have longer "early game" because you "wait more for money" Eddi, in nothing else 13:42:01 <Eddi|zuHause> there was a civ4 mod where after 50 turns, you automatically take over the lowest civ 13:42:09 <AndreasB> does that mean 10 passengers 1 tile is 3.9£ ?if initial cargo payment is 39 13:42:17 <Alberth> AndreasB: longer in the train costs money, more cargo is more money, that's the simple rule. What that means exactly depends on a lot of things, like loading time, what train you use (powerful versus fast), hills, and settings in the game. The simplest way to find out is to try it 13:43:00 <Eddi|zuHause> V453000: yes, so you try to run more trains over less track, have totally different management options/requirements, ... 13:43:02 <AndreasB> I'm looking for a way to calculate it 13:43:09 <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: in addition, or instead of your starting civ? 13:43:10 <planetmaker> openttd does it 13:43:16 <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: instead 13:43:20 <frosch123> :o 13:43:23 <Alberth> V453000: not entirely, you also have to think more what to spend your money on 13:43:43 <V453000> that becomes routine very quickly Alberth :) 13:43:55 <Alberth> could be :) 13:43:59 <AndreasB> 1 unit of oil is 100000 liters? 13:44:21 <planetmaker> the game tells you, no? 13:44:25 <V453000> 1k I think 13:44:28 <Eddi|zuHause> 1000 13:44:30 <AndreasB> eh 13:44:37 <AndreasB> Then I dont understand your wiki 13:44:47 <AndreasB> Deliver 200,000 liters of oil 20 squares in 10 days: 13:44:47 <AndreasB> 2 * £54 * 20 squares * 100% = £2160 13:44:57 <AndreasB> 2 units * 54£ 13:45:08 <Eddi|zuHause> that is 200 units 13:45:30 <AndreasB> :S 13:45:59 <AndreasB> Initial cargo payment values are for delivering 100 pieces of cargo 1 tile., that means 100 000 litres is 54£? 13:46:19 <Eddi|zuHause> what exactly are you reading? 13:46:25 <AndreasB> http://wiki.openttd.org/Game_mechanics 13:46:34 <AndreasB> Delivery payment rates 13:46:59 <V453000> moo moo moo mooo moo mooooo mooooo You just witnessed the mad nutcow herd going home from work. 13:46:59 <V453000> bai 13:47:17 <planetmaker> :-) ciao, V453000 13:47:30 <V453000> I go draw some animals :> 13:47:40 <AndreasB> lol 13:47:49 <Eddi|zuHause> also i think the page is wrong "days" should be "payment decay time units" (default = 2.5 days) 13:49:04 <AndreasB> so 100 passengers is 1*£39*1square*100%= 39$ ? 13:49:06 <AndreasB> @ * 13:49:09 <Eddi|zuHause> AndreasB: so what is unclear? 13:49:40 <AndreasB> If I move 100 passengers 100 squares in 10 days, thats 3900£ ? 13:49:48 <AndreasB> with no inflation 13:50:58 <Eddi|zuHause> no, because passengers are immetiately in the second phase, so you don't get 100% ever 13:51:03 <AndreasB> oh right 13:51:10 <AndreasB> But I dont get this one then: Income = cargo units * cargo value * 0,4 13:51:23 <AndreasB> where does it take squares into account? 13:53:09 <Eddi|zuHause> that paragraph makes no real sense to me either 13:54:04 <Eddi|zuHause> it's like the formulas you learn in driving lessons... totally taken out of thin air 13:54:30 <Eddi|zuHause> "safety distance in cities is 3 times the length of your car" 13:54:40 <AndreasB> 3 second rule 13:54:40 <AndreasB> :D 13:54:54 <AndreasB> Is what we use here 13:55:03 <planetmaker> 3? 13:55:04 <AndreasB> in 80kmh thats 66 meters 13:55:08 <Eddi|zuHause> so if i drive a smart i don't have as much safety distance? 13:55:08 <AndreasB> Yep 13:55:34 <AndreasB> I think they can even give you a ticket for driving too close (closer than 3 seconds) 13:55:35 <Eddi|zuHause> "safety distance outside cities is half the number on the speed-meter" 13:55:49 <AndreasB> Eddi|zuHause: what? 13:56:00 <AndreasB> so if 80kmh, its 40 meters? 13:56:10 <Eddi|zuHause> something like that 13:56:10 <AndreasB> How do you .. know what 40 meters is? 13:56:30 <Eddi|zuHause> the posts at the side of the road are 50m apart 13:56:32 <AndreasB> Thats just insane, if you think 3 seconds instead, you are golden 13:56:49 * planetmaker learnte 2 seconds 13:56:59 <planetmaker> -e 13:57:02 <AndreasB> 2 seconds? And then you use 1 second toreact 13:57:12 <AndreasB> boom 13:57:37 <planetmaker> if your reaction time is 1 second, you definitely need to use 3 second rule, yes 13:57:46 <Eddi|zuHause> AndreasB: the police fine you for like below 10m distance 13:57:52 <AndreasB> Ok, i googled, I agree, haha 13:58:02 <AndreasB> from .15 seconds and up 13:58:27 <Eddi|zuHause> i generally try to have rather large distance 13:58:36 <Eddi|zuHause> but even that didn't suffice this one time... 13:58:44 <AndreasB> I g ot 275 ms 13:58:50 <AndreasB> http://www.humanbenchmark.com/tests/reactiontime/ 13:59:00 *** Japa [~Japa@112.79.37.61] has joined #openttd 13:59:07 <Eddi|zuHause> that is probably useless test :p 13:59:08 <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause, 2 seconds is on German roads HUGE. At least two cars will overtake and fit in between ;-) 13:59:35 <AndreasB> 268, 273, 424, 264 13:59:48 <AndreasB> 2 seconds isnt that much 14:00:04 <planetmaker> indeed not 14:00:16 <AndreasB> 2 seconds ~tailgater 14:00:35 <planetmaker> eh... no? 14:00:52 <AndreasB> I'd be pissed if I had a car 40 meters behind me while driving 80kmh 14:01:05 <AndreasB> cause he should be at least 66 meters behind me 14:01:23 <AndreasB> planetmaker: is lanesplitting allowed in germany? 14:01:39 <AndreasB> (motorcycles) 14:01:42 <planetmaker> what's "lanesplitting"? 14:01:49 <AndreasB> driving between the lanes 14:01:57 <AndreasB> like when there is a lot of traffic 14:02:00 <AndreasB> and traffic jam 14:02:02 <planetmaker> not allowed 14:02:06 <AndreasB> really? 14:02:17 <AndreasB> thats a threat to motorcycle safety o.O 14:02:28 <AndreasB> remind me never to go to germany 14:02:30 <blathijs> But does it happen? :-) 14:02:39 <blathijs> I'm no sure if it's allowed in .nl, but it happens a lot 14:02:45 <AndreasB> It should 14:02:54 <planetmaker> blathijs, it happens a lot, yes 14:02:55 <Alberth> it's allowed in .nl afaik 14:02:57 <AndreasB> Its the only sensible way to allow motorycles to travel 14:02:58 <planetmaker> and imho very dangerous 14:03:01 <AndreasB> Alberth: Nice 14:03:02 <AndreasB> No 14:03:04 <AndreasB> Its not dangerous 14:03:27 <AndreasB> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JNGD9AAIfFU 14:03:31 <blathijs> AndreasB: How is that a threat to motorcycle safety? I always think it's courageous of motorcyclists to drive between the cars. If a car isn't payint proper attention, they can easily get rammend... 14:03:40 <Alberth> planetmaker: it's only allowed at low speed, ie traffic jams and traffic lights 14:03:49 <AndreasB> Cause I dont want a car up my ass 14:03:59 <Eddi|zuHause> i think it's allowed in cities 14:04:10 <Eddi|zuHause> but not on motorways and stuff 14:04:10 <AndreasB> Theres no law in norway to stop it 14:04:19 <AndreasB> Eddi|zuHause: that depends here 14:04:26 <AndreasB> If there is a traffic jam, I will lanesplit 14:04:41 <Eddi|zuHause> besides, on motorways you're supposed to leave a lane free for emergency vehicles 14:04:53 <AndreasB> at all times? 14:04:56 <planetmaker> I found a link which says "not forbidden, but you need to ensure enough side-way distance to other vehicles 14:05:05 <AndreasB> planetmaker: Well yes 14:05:18 <AndreasB> When lanesplititng it is my responsibility not to crash 14:05:23 <Eddi|zuHause> i don't really care if it's allowed, i'd find it dangerous 14:05:34 <planetmaker> but passing through within a jam is judged as overtaking on the right side by courts... so... you'll be fined 14:05:42 <Eddi|zuHause> someone could open a door and stuff 14:05:43 <planetmaker> and you're at least partially at fault, if you crash 14:06:03 <AndreasB> You dont pass on right side 14:06:04 <AndreasB> ever. 14:06:09 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: you can overtake on the right if traffic is "slow" 14:06:27 <planetmaker> http://motorrad.wikia.com/wiki/StVO 14:06:27 <AndreasB> If you have 2 lanes each way, you pass inbetween your two lanes 14:06:40 <AndreasB> I dont read german 14:07:09 <AndreasB> I dont knmow how this is in your countries 14:07:19 <AndreasB> but in norway, the law states that if someone wants to pass you 14:07:31 <AndreasB> You have to slow down, stop if nessecary to let that person pass you 14:07:37 <planetmaker> you will hardly find concise treatise on German road traffic laws which are NOT in German ;-) 14:08:16 <AndreasB> Den homologation regulerer hvilke biler har lov til Ã¥ kjÞre bil. 14:08:17 <AndreasB> LOL 14:08:53 <AndreasB> it says something about cars passing motorcycles? 14:09:13 <planetmaker> vice versa 14:09:22 *** Dozer| [Dozer@0x5e912f54.adsl.cybercity.dk] has joined #openttd 14:09:27 <AndreasB> what is DurschlÀngelns 14:09:37 <planetmaker> passing in the middle 14:09:44 <AndreasB> So there is no law against it? 14:09:47 <AndreasB> not explicit law 14:09:49 <AndreasB> -t 14:10:09 <AndreasB> And one has to have enough side-clearance. 14:10:21 <planetmaker> [16:03] 14:10:21 <planetmaker> <planetmaker> but passing through within a jam is judged as overtaking on the right side by courts... so... you'll be fined 14:10:23 <planetmaker> ... 14:10:44 <AndreasB> aha 14:11:00 <AndreasB> Because I am passing on the right side of the car to the left? 14:11:12 <planetmaker> yes 14:11:13 <AndreasB> Ok 14:11:18 <AndreasB> So say you have 4 lanes each way 14:11:29 <AndreasB> And someone is driving slow in left lane 14:11:40 <AndreasB> you should NOT pass him in any other lane, because you are passing on right side? 14:11:46 <AndreasB> That doesnt make sense ;) 14:11:50 <Eddi|zuHause> he is violating the law, and should move to the right 14:12:02 <planetmaker> in a jam that usually is difficult ;-) 14:12:06 <AndreasB> we please just go on standing columns with a maximum of 20 km / h over, make it two eyes and put your fingers on the brake. 14:12:16 <Eddi|zuHause> jams are special situation 14:12:30 <AndreasB> I always have fingers on clutch and brake in that situation 14:12:48 <AndreasB> You never know when a fu**tar* of a driver wants to try to kill.. err block you 14:12:59 <planetmaker> it's not exactly specified in the law, But courts rules are thus that you're at least partially at fault, if you crash doing so 14:13:18 *** KritiK [~Maxim@128-69-6-121.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #openttd 14:13:25 <planetmaker> anyway... I don't really care 14:13:25 <AndreasB> Ok, lanesplitting is imo the only sensible way to drive a motorcycle 14:13:34 <AndreasB> Norwegian cars should be happy we are allowed to do it 14:13:41 <AndreasB> otherwise jam would be A LOT bigger 14:13:50 <planetmaker> Norway virtually has no traffic 14:14:00 <planetmaker> honestly 14:14:04 <Eddi|zuHause> "(8) Ist ausreichender Raum vorhanden, dÃŒrfen Rad Fahrende und Mofa Fahrende die Fahrzeuge, die auf dem rechten Fahrstreifen warten, mit mÀÃiger Geschwindigkeit und besonderer Vorsicht rechts ÃŒberholen." 14:14:13 <AndreasB> hey wait 14:14:20 <AndreasB> planetmaker: If the left lane is standing still 14:14:29 <AndreasB> Passing a PARKED vehicle on right side is allowed? 14:14:51 <AndreasB> planetmaker: i think germany can benefit from allowing lanesplitting 14:15:25 <AndreasB> Eddi|zuHause: That sounds to me to be 2 lane road 14:15:28 <AndreasB> (1 each way) 14:15:31 <Eddi|zuHause> so passing standing cars on the right is allowed, if you are on a bike, but not on a motorbike 14:15:38 <planetmaker> it would benefit more by limiting highways to 130km/h 14:15:38 <AndreasB> WTH? 14:15:48 <AndreasB> (8) If sufficient space is available, bike and motorbike Propelled Propelled may overtake the vehicles waiting in the right lane at a moderate speed and caution right. 14:15:59 *** roboboy [~robotboy@0001164c.user.oftc.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 14:16:01 *** Dozer [Dozer@0x5e912f54.adsl.cybercity.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:16:01 *** Dozer| is now known as Dozer 14:16:12 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc10-aztw26-2-0-cust867.18-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 14:16:14 <andythenorth> hmm 14:16:17 <Eddi|zuHause> "Mofa" is some bike-motorbike-hybrid thing 14:16:25 <andythenorth> nml spritecache just cached a changed sprite 14:16:28 <andythenorth> afaict 14:16:33 <andythenorth> or I have some other weirdness 14:16:42 <andythenorth> that means compiles are indeterminate for the same rev 14:16:46 <AndreasB> "Done it in all 4 of the countries you mention, even gone past LEOs. Not a problem in any of them. If it's not legal then it's certainly accepted." 14:17:12 <planetmaker> andythenorth, how can I reproduce? 14:17:57 <andythenorth> planetmaker: no idea, never seen it before 14:18:14 <andythenorth> I changed a spritesheet locally 14:18:18 <planetmaker> just didn't save in photoshop is not a possible cause? 14:18:21 <andythenorth> no 14:18:24 <andythenorth> couldn't get the change to show up in game 14:18:36 <andythenorth> used make clean, make install 14:18:39 <andythenorth> issue resolved 14:18:50 <Alberth> and in grfcodec decoding? 14:19:19 <andythenorth> I don't have the grf anymore :( 14:20:13 <andythenorth> the specific sequence of events: 14:20:18 <AndreasB> The main safety reason for splitting lanes is to avoid a rear end collision, and to avoid excess heat dangers such as over heated bike and possible heat stroke (it is entirely possible when sitting between cars at 103 degrees). 14:20:27 <andythenorth> I have sprite_gen_1.png and sprite_gen_2.png 14:20:40 *** Japa [~Japa@112.79.37.61] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:20:42 <andythenorth> I renamed sprite_gen_2.png to sprite_gen_3.png 14:20:58 <andythenorth> then copied sprite_gen_1.png and named it sprite_gen_2.png 14:21:20 <andythenorth> sprite_gen_2.png should have appeared same as sprite_gen_1.png, but was showing same as sprite_gen_3.png 14:21:30 <andythenorth> so I figure something about that set of ops confused the cache 14:21:44 <andythenorth> ah 14:21:51 <andythenorth> I don't think I did the move with hg 14:22:01 <andythenorth> hg can cope with me changing stuff like that fine 14:22:07 <andythenorth> maybe nml can't 14:22:19 <planetmaker> nml should not care about hg mv or simple mv (or cp) 14:22:25 <andythenorth> ok 14:22:26 <planetmaker> it should be agnostic to that 14:22:28 <andythenorth> hmm 14:22:36 <andythenorth> I haven't tried to reproduce - have to go out :P 14:22:44 <planetmaker> :-) 14:24:41 *** Mucht [~Martin@000128e2.user.oftc.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:24:43 <andythenorth> make clean fixed it 14:24:57 <planetmaker> yes, that removes nml's caches 14:25:02 <andythenorth> never seeen it before, done thousands of compiles 14:25:22 <andythenorth> corner case :P 14:25:25 *** Zuu [~Zuu@ns.sdrf.se] has joined #openttd 14:25:41 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc10-aztw26-2-0-cust867.18-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has left #openttd [] 14:26:41 <Eddi|zuHause> "(2a) Wenn auf der Fahrbahn fÃŒr eine Richtung eine Fahrzeugschlange auf dem jeweils linken Fahrstreifen steht oder langsam fÀhrt, dÃŒrfen Fahrzeuge diese mit geringfÃŒgig höherer Geschwindigkeit und mit ÀuÃerster Vorsicht rechts ÃŒberholen." i think that paragraph applies to motorbikes in traffic jams as well 14:26:42 <AndreasB> Did any of you watch taht video? 14:26:51 <Eddi|zuHause> so you can only be fined if you drive "fast" 14:27:12 <AndreasB> Thats it 14:27:23 <AndreasB> if I pass you and planetmaker, you are both doing 10mph 14:27:29 <AndreasB> And I pass between you at 15mph 14:27:35 <planetmaker> I never drive in mph ;-) 14:27:37 <AndreasB> I havent really broken that law 14:27:39 <AndreasB> bah 14:27:47 <AndreasB> 20kmh, and 30 kmh then 14:28:16 <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: but what is 'langsam'? 14:28:19 <planetmaker> AndreasB, yes, then I consider tha reckless driving of yours 14:28:25 <planetmaker> probably rightfully 14:28:32 <AndreasB> But its not 14:28:35 <AndreasB> Its safe driving 14:28:39 <AndreasB> its less reckless 14:28:46 <planetmaker> it's overtaking the left-lane driver on the right 14:28:47 <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: something a court can decide :) 14:28:52 <AndreasB> Watch that video 14:28:54 <planetmaker> which is forbidden 14:28:56 <AndreasB> Or wth 14:28:58 <AndreasB> Nevermind 14:29:04 <AndreasB> You have already made up your mind 14:29:09 <AndreasB> Not taking facts into account 14:29:16 <planetmaker> no, I know German laws better than you ;-) 14:29:33 <AndreasB> Well yes 14:29:39 <AndreasB> of course you do 14:29:51 <planetmaker> and you simply argue like "I think it should be like <whatever>" 14:29:54 <AndreasB> But lanesplitting is SAFER than not lanesplitting 14:29:57 <AndreasB> Im not 14:30:00 <AndreasB> Watch the video. 14:30:03 <V453000> SHOOT PEOPLE 14:30:21 <planetmaker> treating motorbikes just like cars is what is safer 14:30:25 <AndreasB> noš 14:30:29 <AndreasB> So you can rear end me? 14:30:41 <AndreasB> Whats safe is giving the motorcycle control 14:30:57 <planetmaker> sure. you know what's best 14:31:02 <planetmaker> I trust you. totally 14:31:09 <AndreasB> My god 14:31:13 <AndreasB> Just watch the damn video 14:31:22 <AndreasB> If you still think its reckless, thats up to you 14:31:32 <AndreasB> I bet you are the kind that tries to kill those that do lanesplit 14:31:40 <AndreasB> That tries to block them from passing 14:32:15 <Zuu> I noticed that Simutrans now got scripted scenarios. What may be a clever thing in their solution is that within one zip file they store both the scenario file and the script file + translations. On http://scenarios.simutrans.com/list they list 6 scripted scenarios. 2 of them look somewhat advanced (Berlin & New York City). 14:33:07 <Zuu> Would we (OpenTTD) get more interesting scripted scenarios if 1) it would be easier to upload them. 2) they would be shown as a category of its own in the content download window so that they will not be lost among all other scenarios 14:33:28 <planetmaker> AndreasB, it's a video of motorbike freaks who advocate reckless and unsafe driving for the sake of their own speed 14:33:28 <Zuu> Or is OpenTTD players more open to free play without any rules? :-) 14:33:48 <planetmaker> the type of driving they show is scary to say at least 14:33:53 <AndreasB> planetmaker: It gets you faster from A to B 14:33:54 <planetmaker> and rightfully forbidden 14:33:58 <AndreasB> You as in CAR DRIVER 14:34:10 <AndreasB> Bullshit 14:34:15 <AndreasB> Lets just drop the subject 14:34:19 <planetmaker> AndreasB, I don't care about 1 minute on a 3 hour trip. But I care about people getting there *safely* 14:34:22 <AndreasB> You are alreadsy brainwashed 14:34:27 <AndreasB> yeah 14:34:39 <planetmaker> and it will exactly gain me *one minute* 14:34:40 <AndreasB> And making motorcyclists stand still in traffic IS NOT SAFE 14:34:41 <Alberth> Zuu: scenarios need getting rid of the newgrfs first, 1 is not the main problem I think, as it affects only the author 14:34:44 <AndreasB> 1) Rear ending 14:34:48 <AndreasB> 2) Over heating 14:34:52 <Rubidium> 2) hitting an opened door 14:35:00 <AndreasB> Doors shouldnt be open! 14:35:08 <AndreasB> And if y5ou get hit by a door, you are riding TOO FAST 14:35:10 <AndreasB> Cant you see that? 14:35:14 <Rubidium> AndreasB: and you shouldn't be rear ended 14:35:17 <planetmaker> 4) pulling over to the right and being overtaken right at the same time 14:35:23 <AndreasB> Rubidium: I have NO control of that 14:35:23 <Alberth> about 2, I'd say scripting is a property of a scenario itself 14:35:31 <AndreasB> Lanesplititng gives me control over that 14:35:32 <Zuu> Alberth: Well a well designed scenario should use NewGRFs as a way to paint their story on the canvas that is the map and game rules. 14:35:37 <Rubidium> AndreasB: neither do you have control over someone opening their door 14:35:44 <Zuu> At least for a scripted scenario which aim to tell a story or so. 14:35:51 <AndreasB> Why would anyone do that? 14:35:54 <AndreasB> They are in traffic 14:36:07 <planetmaker> AndreasB, but I don't want you to take control over the intengrity of my car. Just stick to the traffic rules like all. 14:36:10 <Rubidium> because they have been standing still for 20 minutes? 14:36:15 <Rubidium> (or an hour) 14:36:17 <AndreasB> Oh well, It's legal here 14:36:22 <planetmaker> Motorbikes are not special. Simple easy. safe. 14:36:24 <AndreasB> So I will continue being safe :) 14:36:51 <AndreasB> http://motorcycles.about.com/u/ua/readerrides/Should-Lane-Splitting-Be-Legal-For-Motorcycles.htm 14:36:52 <AndreasB> That one then 14:37:02 <AndreasB> All types of people replying, not only motorcyclists 14:37:04 <Rubidium> having said that, apparantly it's allowed to overtake in a traffic jam... if the jam is stationary and you're going less than 10 kph 14:37:05 <planetmaker> that's where you err, AndreasB. It's not safe :-) It's only what you want to believe. 14:37:12 <Alberth> Zuu: I agree, you do want newgrf capabilities in the scenario, but not in the current setup imho. scripting also makes a lot of sense, so it should be an integral part of the scenario rather than an add-on, or a special type 14:37:18 <AndreasB> http://rideapart.com/2013/04/neveda-lanesplitting-bill-passes-transportation-committee/ 14:37:24 <planetmaker> Rubidium, yes... but the video clearly adocates a quite different approach ;-) 14:37:24 <AndreasB> Why would they pass bills if it wasnt safe? 14:37:30 <Rubidium> ... and loads of other rules and regulations 14:37:57 <AndreasB> [16:37:25] <@planetmaker> Rubidium, yes... but the video clearly adocates a quite different approach ;-) 14:38:01 <AndreasB> Why do you say that? 14:38:07 <AndreasB> 15-20mph over is safe 14:38:24 <AndreasB> 15 mph is 24 kmh 14:38:26 <planetmaker> with like 1m distance to cars. overtaking in between. yeah, sure 14:38:33 <AndreasB> yep 14:38:37 <Zuu> Alberth: It could just be a tar with the scenario + specialized GS from a technical point of view. But in practice it will make it easier to upload and with an own category to find. 14:38:37 <AndreasB> Well no 14:38:39 <planetmaker> it's insane 14:38:41 <AndreasB> Nor with 1M 14:38:45 <AndreasB> 1M is too little 14:39:03 <AndreasB> But usually there is more than that between cars 14:39:20 <planetmaker> anyway, it's discussed ad nauseam. you got your opinion. Drive safely. It's kinda become boring and... slightly off-topic here 14:39:26 <planetmaker> eod for me 14:39:45 <AndreasB> :) 14:40:11 <AndreasB> I do drive safely, I hope you do too. And if you encounter someone "breaking the law", try to make as much roo mfor him as you can :) 14:40:22 <planetmaker> why? 14:40:32 <Rubidium> well... I almost hit a door of a car when on my bicycle going something like 15 km/h and had barely enough time to stop. This was on a dedicated busy bike lane next to a road where there wasn't really a reason to expect someone to get out after standing in a queue for a while 14:40:41 <AndreasB> " It is allowed in California and has proven to be safe" 14:40:51 <planetmaker> wth do I care about US laws? 14:40:55 <Alberth> Zuu: it should be a tar imho, especially with the new format by T3rkhen. A new category may make sense to differentiate them from the "old" scenarios, which would be good probably 14:40:56 <AndreasB> Rubidium: Dont worry 14:41:01 <AndreasB> We hate you cyclists too 14:41:07 <AndreasB> get the F*** off the road 14:41:14 <AndreasB> :) 14:41:22 <planetmaker> a car door caught me once. My bike was broken. So was the door 14:41:49 <Rubidium> ah well, I'm likely faster at my work by bicycle than you would be, if you were obeying the law ;) 14:41:56 <planetmaker> :-) 14:42:21 <AndreasB> I am obeying norwegian law 14:42:28 <AndreasB> ther eis no law against lanesplitting 14:42:42 <planetmaker> Where you drive you need to obey luckily local law ;-) 14:43:06 <Rubidium> in any case, lane splitting won't help you win my "race" ;) 14:43:20 <Rubidium> it's the traffic lights that make you loose 14:43:34 <AndreasB> Rubidium: Are you on the road with your bicycle? 14:43:36 <planetmaker> indeed. I'm faster at work with my bicycle than by any other transport means 14:43:39 <AndreasB> If yes: Stop for the red light 14:43:44 <AndreasB> otherwise YOU are the one breaking the law 14:43:48 <AndreasB> (At least here) 14:43:57 <AndreasB> If you are on a bicycle, you are considered a vehicle 14:44:01 <AndreasB> and the law applies to vehicles.- 14:44:18 <AndreasB> You have to stop for the same red light that I have to stop for 14:44:25 <Rubidium> AndreasB: I'm on the bicycle path, where you aren't allowed to drive with your motorcycle, that goes over all the roads that you need to cross using traffic lights 14:44:29 <planetmaker> no. Bicycles have separate lanes ;-) 14:44:34 <planetmaker> and separate traffic lights :-) 14:45:22 * Rubidium knows places where traffic lights for bicyclists are green four times more often than those for cars/motorcycles 14:45:27 <planetmaker> and as long as they do exist, I'm not even allowed to drive on the road 14:48:12 <AndreasB> Rubidium: Ah, you mean on the side.. Normally you have a lights there too, yes? 14:48:24 <AndreasB> We also have bicycle paths, but they have to stop for red signal 14:49:13 <Rubidium> the bicycle path I'm talking about has a bridge over the roads, where the cars/motorcycles need to cross it at level 14:49:16 <AndreasB> most just keep on going at red lights 14:49:24 <AndreasB> ah, ok 14:49:28 <AndreasB> well thats good. 14:49:41 <AndreasB> But you get green at same time as cars, of course? 14:49:52 <AndreasB> Or same time as those who are walking across? 14:50:01 <Rubidium> depends on the location 14:50:03 <AndreasB> ok 14:50:11 <AndreasB> Say you are coming down the pathway 14:50:15 <AndreasB> where people walk 14:50:20 <AndreasB> And want to cross the road 14:50:26 <AndreasB> You HAVE to get off the bike? 14:51:02 <AndreasB> Her in .no I do not stop for cyclists that doesnt get off their bikes, even if light is green for crossing 14:51:24 <Rubidium> I know a place where all cyclists from all sides are getting green at the same time, then one direction of cars, then cyclists, then another direction of cars, then cyclists, then the third direction of cars, then cyclists (all of them), then the fourth direction for cars and then the cycle starts again 14:51:50 <AndreasB> eh 14:51:53 <AndreasB> I didnt get that 14:52:05 <AndreasB> So first all cyclists gets green 14:52:11 <AndreasB> no matter what direction 14:52:16 <Rubidium> exactly 14:52:28 <AndreasB> then one direction of cars 14:52:29 <AndreasB> eh 14:52:32 <AndreasB> Thats weird 14:52:36 <AndreasB> illogical 14:52:48 <planetmaker> that's netherlands. and cycling works exceptionally well there. 14:52:52 <AndreasB> Northbound and southbound should get green at the same time 14:53:14 <Rubidium> AndreasB: then you haven't been in the Netherlands, because that will cause deadlocks 14:53:20 <AndreasB> how so? 14:53:27 <AndreasB> I think you misunderstood me kinda 14:53:32 <AndreasB> I know I misunderstood myself 14:53:55 <Rubidium> those from the south going to the west and from the north going to the east will have to basically wait on eachother 14:54:01 <AndreasB> Example: Northbound going straight and southbound going straight gets green at the same time 14:54:11 <AndreasB> yes, but they didnt get green yet 14:54:42 <AndreasB> N->E and S->W can drive at the same time 14:54:51 <AndreasB> and N-W and S-E 14:54:57 <AndreasB> N-N, and S-S 14:55:06 <AndreasB> W->W and E->E 14:55:12 <AndreasB> do you understand? 14:55:20 <Rubidium> still, then you have different 'states' of the junction 14:55:27 <AndreasB> yes 14:55:55 <Rubidium> instead of everyone coming from the south goes in state 1, everybody from east in state 2, etc 14:56:55 <AndreasB> http://goo.gl/maps/XVaGU 14:57:00 <AndreasB> thats a place near where I live 14:57:13 <AndreasB> left lane = goes left, right lane = straight + right 14:57:27 <AndreasB> When the red light goes green, both lanes can go 14:57:42 <AndreasB> Then the light becomes red again, and the little box on the side becomes green 14:57:47 <AndreasB> meaning only those going left 14:58:10 *** planetmaker [~planetmak@188.cimarosa.openttdcoop.org] has left #openttd [Verlassend] 14:58:15 *** planetmaker [~planetmak@188.cimarosa.openttdcoop.org] has joined #openttd 14:58:41 *** tycoondemon2 [~ashnohoe@ip503d7ac1.speed.planet.nl] has quit [] 14:59:34 <AndreasB> can you find me a crossing like the one you are talking about? 15:00:50 <AndreasB> http://goo.gl/maps/jQw1p 15:00:54 <AndreasB> is that what you mean Rubidium? 15:02:07 <Rubidium> that's just a massive mess 15:03:16 <AndreasB> lol 15:03:23 <AndreasB> amsterdam :P 15:05:01 <Rubidium> stupid Google... 15:05:20 <Rubidium> they went to the place where I know it works like I just explained when they were doing road works there :( 15:05:35 <AndreasB> aww 15:05:54 <AndreasB> next intersection then? :D 15:06:25 <AndreasB> But 15:06:48 <AndreasB> It was said that if 10% of car drivers in belgium switched to motorcycles 15:06:59 <AndreasB> there would be 40% less .. trafficjams? 15:07:10 <AndreasB> I dont know the correct english word for it lol 15:07:20 <planetmaker> one hour to go... until "Mutti vs. Stinkefinger" comes to its final show-down 15:07:20 <AndreasB> Directly translated its like queue 15:08:12 <AndreasB> do you know what its called? 15:08:20 <Rubidium> http://goo.gl/maps/TKb5I though you can't really see the traffic light of the cyclists there 15:09:08 <AndreasB> ok, so one direction gets green at a time? 15:09:09 <NGC3982> That look so ..swedish. 15:09:16 <AndreasB> no it doesnt 15:09:16 <AndreasB> lol 15:09:20 <AndreasB> ok 15:09:22 <AndreasB> maybe it does 15:09:33 <Rubidium> AndreasB: yes, cars coming from one direction (going to the three others) 15:09:34 <AndreasB> NGC3982: I was in gothenburg yesterday 15:09:46 <AndreasB> Rubidium: That sounds like it creates more traffic than it solves 15:09:50 <NGC3982> Grey, brown and bad weather. 15:09:58 <NGC3982> AndreasB: Neat. Aren't you Swedish in the first place? 15:10:01 <planetmaker> lol, I trust the Swedish person more in the judgement "swedish" ;-) 15:10:04 <AndreasB> I would let N->N and S->S go first 15:10:28 <AndreasB> maybe even N-E and S-W at the same time 15:10:37 <AndreasB> jeg er norsk ffs 15:10:38 <Rubidium> you still have the same number of states 15:10:40 <AndreasB> :D 15:10:46 <AndreasB> no 15:10:51 <NGC3982> AndreasB: :D 15:10:54 <AndreasB> you do? 15:11:10 <AndreasB> With your thingie you have 4 car states, plus 4 cyclist? 15:11:23 <Rubidium> AndreasB: yes 15:11:37 <AndreasB> with mine you have ... 4 15:11:37 <AndreasB> lol 15:11:50 <planetmaker> lol. no way. You neglect cyclist in your "solution" 15:11:52 <Rubidium> AndreasB: and with your thingie, *and* the pro cyclist 'rules' you still have 4 car states + 4 cyclist states 15:12:02 <AndreasB> planetmaker: Not counting cyclicsts 15:12:07 <AndreasB> yep 15:12:10 <AndreasB> Rubidium: Thats true 15:12:12 <AndreasB> BUT 15:12:17 <planetmaker> thus you compare apples and pears 15:12:20 <AndreasB> With mine, you could have as low as 2 car 15:12:22 <planetmaker> and say apples are 'better' 15:12:26 <AndreasB> Because if noone is going left 15:12:31 <Rubidium> because after each car state, there must be an opportunity for all cyclists to cross the junction 15:12:31 <AndreasB> the light will never go green for left 15:12:34 <AndreasB> but skip it 15:12:49 <AndreasB> allowing better flow of traffic since n-n and s-s can drive at the same time 15:12:57 <planetmaker> not happening the densest populated country in Europe 15:13:10 <planetmaker> (maybe except Luxembourg, Malta,...) 15:13:35 <AndreasB> what does dijk mean? 15:13:39 <AndreasB> is that like street? 15:13:51 <planetmaker> Deich ;-) 15:13:57 <AndreasB> kuipers street kuipersdirjk 15:14:12 <Rubidium> causeway 15:14:28 <AndreasB> -r 15:14:31 <AndreasB> what? 15:14:33 <AndreasB> causeway? 15:14:48 * planetmaker enjoys the popcorn 15:15:00 <Rubidium> http://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dijk_%28weg%29 / http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Causeway 15:15:28 <Eddi|zuHause> "A causeway is a road or railway route across a broad body of water or wetland raised up on an embankment." 15:15:45 <Eddi|zuHause> [Wikipedia] 15:16:02 <AndreasB> :S 15:16:09 <AndreasB> That was in the middle of city, but ok 15:16:19 <Rubidium> s/was/is/ 15:16:20 <Eddi|zuHause> the netherlands are all wetland :p 15:16:34 <Rubidium> it *was* outside of the city... some time ago 15:16:39 <AndreasB> hahaha Rubidium 15:16:42 <AndreasB> +1 15:16:58 <AndreasB> but lanesplitting allowed in .nl? 15:17:08 <AndreasB> NGC3982: Is it allowed in sweden? 15:17:35 <AndreasB> But really 15:17:45 <AndreasB> Its fun how study in belgium showed that if 10 15:17:50 <AndreasB> 10% changed to motorycle 15:17:50 <Rubidium> AndreasB: at traffic standing still and you not going faster than 10 km/h and the lane not being closed and the lane not being an emergency lane and ... 15:17:54 <AndreasB> 40% less traffic 15:18:11 <AndreasB> you have own emergency lanes? 15:18:43 <AndreasB> Lets say its 70kmh zone, and traffic is going at 45, I can pass at 55 ? 15:18:51 <Rubidium> no 15:19:01 <AndreasB> ok, because? 15:19:18 <AndreasB> Im not going faster than 10kmh over 15:19:29 <Rubidium> but the traffic is moving 15:19:32 <AndreasB> so? 15:19:38 <AndreasB> they are still under speedlimit 15:19:43 <AndreasB> and I will lanesplit 15:20:10 <AndreasB> bah, who am I kidding 15:20:14 <AndreasB> I dont give a fuck what speed is 15:20:29 <AndreasB> As long as its under the speedlimit, and I have enough room, I will pass cars 15:21:00 <planetmaker> I want to see motorcyclist doing that both ways ;-) 15:21:07 <AndreasB> Cars have to stop envying us motorcyclists 15:21:16 <AndreasB> planetmaker: That could be exciting 15:21:48 <planetmaker> yup. head-on-crash two motor-cycles and 4 damaged cars. fun. 15:22:00 <planetmaker> but faster 15:22:08 <planetmaker> I'm already envious :-) 15:22:26 <planetmaker> you even can then ignore red lights. Lawfully. In the ambulance 15:23:01 <AndreasB> planetmaker: Not really 15:23:11 <AndreasB> I would have to move into my lane, he into his lane 15:23:21 <AndreasB> But normally there are 2 lanes each way 15:23:36 <Rubidium> http://goo.gl/maps/qSjkT <- where would you overtake this bunch? 15:23:46 <Rubidium> there's lots of space on the left and right of the road ;) 15:23:50 <AndreasB> Do you guys have own bus-lanes? 15:23:57 <AndreasB> Can motorcycles drive there? 15:24:04 <planetmaker> can yes. 15:24:20 <AndreasB> Well, this seems like a trick question 15:24:28 <AndreasB> I take it the leftmsot lane is emergency lane 15:24:32 <AndreasB> Since the X 15:24:35 <AndreasB> and long stripes 15:24:41 <Rubidium> AndreasB: I wouldn't do that in Enschede. Even if it's allowed, it would be extremely slow to travel over it 15:24:48 <planetmaker> looks like the typical dutch highway near cities 15:25:00 <AndreasB> But I might pass between lane 1 and 2, or 2 and 3 15:25:11 <AndreasB> In norway there is a law that states "keep to the right" 15:25:19 <AndreasB> The first vehicle there would break that law 15:25:32 <planetmaker> no vehicle in the image breaks that rule 15:25:35 <Rubidium> mostly because the traffic lights are triggered by a transponder in the bus that you won't have 15:25:40 <AndreasB> Eh planetmaker 15:25:42 <AndreasB> keep the RIGHT 15:25:44 <AndreasB> not LEFT 15:25:50 <planetmaker> yes. None violates it, though 15:26:00 <AndreasB> Rubidium: here its triggered by thingie in the ground 15:26:06 <AndreasB> planetmaker: He does 15:26:07 <planetmaker> They overtake slower traffic on the right 15:26:11 <AndreasB> He is keeping the the left 15:26:16 <AndreasB> in his lane 15:26:18 <Rubidium> AndreasB: for normal roads it is, but for bus lanes it generally isn't 15:26:21 <AndreasB> He has 1 meter to the right 15:26:27 <AndreasB> he should be more to the right imho 15:26:40 <planetmaker> it's my lane. where I drive there is my beer 15:26:59 <AndreasB> But judging on their position, I'd pass them between the two rightmost lanes 15:27:02 <planetmaker> it's fit for exactly one vehicle. Not more. Lest one vehicle and one motor cycle 15:27:13 <AndreasB> planetmaker: Bullshit 15:27:23 <AndreasB> That lane is wide enought to fit both motorcycle and car 15:27:28 <AndreasB> Considering two lanes are used 15:27:31 <planetmaker> not with safety margin 15:27:34 <AndreasB> Yup 15:27:35 <AndreasB> :) 15:27:48 <AndreasB> 5 feet should be enough 15:27:57 <AndreasB> 3 for me, then one feet on either side 15:27:58 <planetmaker> no. 1.5m 15:28:08 <planetmaker> each side 15:28:11 <AndreasB> nope 15:28:18 <AndreasB> I disagree 15:28:18 <planetmaker> look up in the legislation ;-) 15:28:29 <AndreasB> well yes, but we all know laws are stupid 15:28:32 <Dozer> Rubidium in Denmark we're starting to pass laws about allowing the emergency lane to be used during peak hours as well. 15:28:33 <AndreasB> Or, many of them are 15:28:44 <AndreasB> Dozer: you have emergency lanes? :S 15:28:49 <AndreasB> I've never seen that in norway 15:29:00 <Dozer> AndreasB on the motor-ways, yes. 15:29:14 <AndreasB> Dozer: do you have bus-lanes like we do?= 15:29:16 <AndreasB> for bus + taxi 15:29:28 <Dozer> AndreasB in copenhagen I know they do have it. 15:29:37 <AndreasB> Can MC's drive in it? 15:29:43 <Dozer> Otherwise they would never go anywhere, besides being stuck in traffic. 15:29:49 <AndreasB> and can I lanesplit in denmark? 15:29:52 <Dozer> No clue, but my guess would be no. 15:29:58 <Dozer> What is lanesplit? 15:30:01 <planetmaker> haha :-) 15:30:16 <Rubidium> Dozer: actually the lane with the red X isn't an emergency lane, it's an extra lane for rush hour 15:30:25 <Dozer> Rubidium I know :) 15:30:27 <AndreasB> Why isnt it always open? 15:30:46 <Dozer> I just noticed that they were using the lane to the far right, which for me, is the emergency lane. 15:30:49 <AndreasB> whats the lane on the right side? 15:30:57 <Rubidium> problem is that due to legal reasons... yay greens, you can either have the two lanes open and drive 120 or have three lanes open and drive 100 15:31:15 <AndreasB> what? 15:31:20 <AndreasB> So speedlimit with 2 lanes = 130 15:31:22 <Rubidium> the lane of the right side is the emergency lane (for when you have car trouble) 15:31:23 <Dozer> Rubidium either way, it would still be better with 3 lanes. 15:31:24 <AndreasB> 3 lanes = 100? 15:31:24 <planetmaker> Rubidium, is 3 lanes per direction limited to 100km/h in NL? 15:31:29 <AndreasB> WTF 15:31:33 <Dozer> You could still push way more traffic through. 15:31:33 <AndreasB> that doesnt make sense 15:31:35 <Rubidium> planetmaker: nope, depends on the situation 15:31:44 <AndreasB> We have 100 max no matter how many lanes :D 15:31:46 <planetmaker> aye ok. I just wondered. 15:31:47 <Rubidium> but in this case the third lane is narrower 15:31:59 <AndreasB> Rubidium: I see 4 signals over the road 15:32:01 <AndreasB> but 3 lanes.. 15:32:02 <planetmaker> not suitable for trucks :-) 15:34:09 <Rubidium> they can show a green arrow above the emergency lane in case of a collision to tell people it's okay to drive on that lane to pass the accident 15:34:18 <AndreasB> I drove to gothenburg yesterday 15:34:21 <AndreasB> And I was.. 15:34:35 <AndreasB> baffled by how much better swedes are at looking in the mirror 15:34:44 <AndreasB> People actually moved out of the way to let me pass on motorcycle 15:35:03 <Dozer> AndreasB but I was thinking about your earlier statement when I first entered the channel, about peoplle just doing "city builds". Are there other ways to make an even more profitable company in the game besides that? 15:35:35 <Dozer> An easy start is ofc just wailing some planes out, and some trains, and transport whatever pays the most, fast. 15:36:10 <planetmaker> Dozer, it can be very profitable to transfer all local passengers to an ICE terminal. And ship passengers from there to another large metropolitan area on the other side of the map 15:36:30 <Dozer> What is an ICE terminal? 15:36:36 <planetmaker> planes, btw, are not a good choice. airports are VERY limited in throughput. Any train station easily beats that 15:36:41 <planetmaker> inter city express :-) 15:37:03 <planetmaker> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intercity-Express < those ;-) 15:37:21 <Rubidium> likewise with cargo; transfer iron ore to one corner of the map (preferably the one furthest away), then move the steel to a factory at the complete opposite of the map, and move the goods back to a town near the steel mill 15:37:31 <Dozer> Yeah I know about their very limites throughput, but if you can throttle that to the maximum, without overdoing the planes pr airfield, you can make a ton of money. 15:37:36 <Rubidium> you just moved one stream of cargo about 4 times over the whole map 15:37:42 <AndreasB> Rubidium: +1 15:37:51 <AndreasB> how did we get back on topic? o.O 15:37:52 <planetmaker> Dozer, yes... but it needs (usually) maintenace. planes crash. trains not 15:37:58 <planetmaker> when unmaintained and with default settings 15:38:00 <Dozer> True. 15:38:10 <planetmaker> and one train can make more money than a plane 15:38:10 <AndreasB> Tell me 15:38:17 <planetmaker> and succession can be quicker 15:38:19 <AndreasB> is there an easy way to swap out old trains? 15:38:21 <AndreasB> for new ones 15:38:22 <Dozer> Rubidium I'm just thinking, how is it profitable to transfer it THAT much across the map? 15:38:33 <planetmaker> hm... :-) let me look 15:38:34 <AndreasB> Considering you should get new trains every year 15:38:55 <AndreasB> Age in years of last vehicle entering station <--- 15:38:57 <Dozer> planetmaker I know the german ICE trains ;) I just though it was a certain type of transportation in the game. 15:39:24 <AndreasB> Also make sure that every turn is at least the size of train 15:39:28 <AndreasB> so it doesnt slow down 15:39:33 <Dozer> ye 15:39:46 <planetmaker> http://wiki.openttdcoop.org/PublicServer:Archive_-_Games_81_-_90#gameid_84 for instance :-) 15:40:00 <AndreasB> I see many people use 15:40:00 <AndreasB> WOW 15:40:02 <AndreasB> THAT CITY 15:40:34 <AndreasB> why are there 4 statsions after eachother? 15:40:34 <planetmaker> Dozer, well. in coop we have a certain "game style" which we sometimes employ. we call that s-bahn and ice. Which means local transport and inter-city (long distance) 15:40:38 <Rubidium> Dozer: I'm not quite sure, though a fast train makes money when it moves, so it should be moving most of the time instead of waiting/slowing down at stations 15:41:08 <planetmaker> AndreasB, the station doesn't otherwise fit into 64x64 tiles with the required capacity 15:41:49 <AndreasB> huh? 15:41:51 <planetmaker> the four small maglev stations there are the city-local transport 15:42:05 <AndreasB> Sorry, dont get it lol 15:42:10 <planetmaker> and for space reasons the different lines are put next to each other at the hub terminal 15:42:12 <AndreasB> they are all connected? 15:42:16 <planetmaker> download the savegame and see yourself 15:42:19 <AndreasB> ok 15:42:31 <planetmaker> you might need the #openttdcoop grfpack, though 15:42:55 <planetmaker> http://wiki.openttdcoop.org/GRF <-- download and unzip into your newgrf dir 15:43:16 <planetmaker> http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/grfpack/releases/LATEST/ottdc_grfpack_8.0.zip direct link 15:43:33 <AndreasB> ah 15:43:39 <planetmaker> AndreasB, and yes, every station is used. to its capacity limit 15:44:12 <Dozer> Where is the newgrf folder placed planetmaker? 15:44:47 <planetmaker> dunno, what OS do you have? 15:44:55 <planetmaker> readme section 4.2 :D 15:44:58 <V453000> my god pm showing game 84 when we are at 260s is a bit old XD 15:45:15 <planetmaker> V453000, well... I remember best the games... I played myself :D 15:45:21 <Dozer> planetmaker windows 7 :P 15:45:22 <planetmaker> forgive me :-) 15:45:27 <AndreasB> I dont get where to put them 15:45:32 <AndreasB> C:\Users\unknown\Documents\OpenTTD\newgrf\ottdc_grfpack 15:45:42 <Dozer> ah there. 15:45:44 <Dozer> ty 15:45:52 <V453000> I realize that :D perhaps you might want to have a look at the hall of fame for a short overview :P 15:46:07 <planetmaker> yes... just looking for that tbh :-) 15:46:59 <AndreasB> planetmaker: Cant get it to work xD 15:47:22 <planetmaker> http://wiki.openttdcoop.org/PublicServer:Archive_-_Games_91_-_100#gameid_96 <-- but this one I was looking for really. 3 cities. 2.9M population overall :-) 15:47:33 <AndreasB> where do i unzip to? 15:47:40 <V453000> 201 is highest population with 50%+transported 15:47:47 <V453000> games before that often had low transported rates 15:47:50 <planetmaker> with each city having one ICE terminal. turn-over of ~20000 passengers per *month* 15:48:14 <V453000> 101 was record with 3M population, but idk, like 10% actually transported 15:48:21 <planetmaker> game 96 had low transport, too 15:48:28 <planetmaker> at least in "my" city 15:48:29 <V453000> aye 15:48:35 <planetmaker> not low transport. but station rating 15:48:48 <V453000> transfer station rating is always low 15:48:49 <planetmaker> that's different things really :-) 15:48:54 <planetmaker> yeah 15:49:00 <V453000> what matters is % transported 15:49:03 <planetmaker> ^ 15:49:04 <AndreasB> :| 15:49:09 <AndreasB> oh well, screw it then 15:49:16 <planetmaker> AndreasB, you said it yourself where to unzip the grfpack to 15:49:17 <AndreasB> wiki doesnt even say where to put them 15:49:20 <AndreasB> I DID 15:49:22 <planetmaker> not sure what more advice you need 15:49:23 <AndreasB> It didnt work 15:49:23 <V453000> I say 50%+ is a rule, 60% is okay, 70% is good, 80% very good, and above 90% perfect 15:49:43 <planetmaker> nor does my crystal ball, you know ;-) 15:49:48 <planetmaker> (no, you don't) 15:49:51 *** sla_ro|master [slamaster@85.186.160.35] has joined #openttd 15:50:08 <AndreasB> I am missing grf's 15:50:11 <AndreasB> Canadian stations set 15:50:14 <AndreasB> Dutch station set 15:50:18 <V453000> thats the grf pack 15:50:27 <Dozer> I get some of the same issues. 15:50:29 <AndreasB> C:\Users\unknown\Documents\OpenTTD\newgrf\ottdc_grfpack 15:50:32 <AndreasB> Well, I have that there.. 15:50:37 <Dozer> I did download the grf pack, but it still says I have some files missing. 15:50:42 <Dozer> I could find some of the online. 15:50:44 <Dozer> But not all. 15:50:48 <V453000> did you unzip the pack? 15:50:48 <planetmaker> what is missing? 15:50:52 <AndreasB> yes V453000 15:51:06 <V453000> well then idk how did you achieve that :D 15:51:33 <AndreasB> I am missing: Canadian stations set v0.3d, dutch station set, modern tram set, new water 0.7, north american roads set v.19, ottd_grfpack/8_cehivles/trams 15:51:40 <Dozer> CanadianStations V0.3d 15:51:49 <Dozer> Dutch stations set 15:51:54 <Dozer> Modern Tramset 15:51:55 <V453000> yes clearly the grf pack 15:52:00 <Dozer> New Water 0.7 15:52:17 <Dozer> NOrth American Road Set V1.0 15:52:20 <V453000> same for Dozer 15:52:20 <V453000> .. 15:52:25 <AndreasB> if I move the grf pack out, I get more missing stuff 15:52:27 <planetmaker> sounds all like what's in the grfpack 15:52:32 <AndreasB> but clearly something still missing 15:52:38 <planetmaker> ok... missing but compatible found? 15:52:45 <AndreasB> no 15:52:51 <Dozer> My list was way longer at first. 15:52:56 <Dozer> But managed to find it online. 15:53:00 <Dozer> So it auto-downloaded. 15:53:04 <AndreasB> let me delete all newgrf I ahve downloaded 15:53:06 <AndreasB> then put it back in 15:53:12 <Dozer> But it still has 6 things missing. 15:53:45 <planetmaker> 2_landscape/newwater/newwaterw.grf is there in the pack 15:54:06 <AndreasB> nope, still missing the same 15:54:18 <planetmaker> do you guys have your openttd.cfg next to your openttd.exe? and not in c:\Users\blah\Documents\OpenTTD? 15:54:21 <Alberth> you unzipped it to a directory tree? 15:54:33 <Dozer> I have the config file in my documents folder. 15:54:37 <Dozer> Not in the install location. 15:54:40 <AndreasB> eh 15:54:52 <planetmaker> then try moving the ottdc_grfpack dir to the newgrf dir next to openttd.exe 15:54:57 <AndreasB> Config file is : C:\Users\unknown\Documents\OpenTTD 15:55:01 <AndreasB> ok 15:55:42 <AndreasB> There is no newgrf dir there 15:56:09 <Eddi|zuHause> 4 minutes to go... 15:56:24 <planetmaker> create it. put the ottdc_grfpack dir inside that newly created newgrf dir 15:56:40 <Dozer> Still not working. 15:56:58 <AndreasB> misisng files 15:57:31 <AndreasB> but it says, "This is a replacement for an existing NewGRF" 15:57:41 <planetmaker> that's ok 15:57:44 <AndreasB> k 15:58:03 <planetmaker> those mentioned newgrfs are only provided as compatible ones 15:58:43 <Dozer> Yeah I get the same. 15:58:51 <Dozer> I think it's the MD5 checksum that isn't identical. 15:58:55 <Dozer> So it complains about it. 15:59:00 <Dozer> Because the files are actually present. 15:59:01 <planetmaker> yes. I know. But that's ok. They will work 15:59:20 <planetmaker> you'll have yellow indications in the newgrf settings instead of green. but it should load and display fine 15:59:35 <AndreasB> they are red 15:59:53 <AndreasB> in newgrf settings they are yellow 16:00:03 <AndreasB> but 16:00:06 <AndreasB> generictram 16:00:06 <planetmaker> so... what happens when you press 'load'? 16:00:11 <AndreasB> I cant 16:00:14 <AndreasB> It says its missing files 16:00:32 <AndreasB> When I look at the only red file 16:00:48 <AndreasB> its 8_vehicles/generictrams/generictrams_v0.32.grf 16:00:51 <AndreasB> Mathcine file not found 16:00:53 <AndreasB> matching* 16:01:04 <planetmaker> hm... 16:01:11 <AndreasB> but here 16:01:12 <AndreasB> B> 16:01:13 <AndreasB> err 16:01:16 <AndreasB> C:\Users\unknown\Documents\OpenTTD\newgrf\ottdc_grfpack_vehicles\trams 16:01:24 <AndreasB> there are no such dir as "generictrams" 16:02:45 <planetmaker> ok, hold on 16:07:13 <Eddi|zuHause> hm... this prognosis is... inconclusive 16:07:20 <AndreasB> holding on 16:07:22 <AndreasB> for life 16:07:31 <Dozer> Remember to hold your breath as well. 16:08:28 <Eddi|zuHause> CDU/CSU (42%) might have a shot at absolute majority, if FDP is out (4,7%) and AfD (euro-sceptics) is also not in (4.9%) 16:08:37 <planetmaker> hmpf. I don't find that file on my HDD :D 16:08:54 <planetmaker> but I clearly have it :-D 16:09:22 *** Dozer| [Dozer@0x5e912f54.adsl.cybercity.dk] has joined #openttd 16:09:30 <AndreasB> lol 16:10:12 <Alberth> planetmaker: something like Generic_Tram_Set-0.4.tar ? 16:10:49 <planetmaker> http://devs.openttd.org/~planetmaker/patches/Generic_Tram_Set-0.4.tar 16:10:50 <planetmaker> yes 16:11:16 <planetmaker> was in the logical place. Just too stupid to both see it and grep for it :-) 16:16:01 *** Dozer [Dozer@0x5e912f54.adsl.cybercity.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:16:01 *** Dozer| is now known as Dozer 16:17:27 <planetmaker> seems that we removed it as compatible. But compatible isn't downloaded. oh well. 16:18:49 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1AE9C.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 16:29:10 <planetmaker> does it work with that additional grf file, Dozer ? 16:30:49 <V453000> FUCK, is there a maximum file LENGTH for nmlc? 16:30:53 <V453000> like 65k? 16:32:22 <Eddi|zuHause> CETS is much larger than that 16:32:40 <V453000> k so unexpected end of file is some other issue :D 16:33:18 <Eddi|zuHause> that usually means a missing } 16:33:25 <Eddi|zuHause> or maybe ; 16:33:55 <V453000> hm :) fuck 16:35:08 <V453000> aye, found it :) 16:35:13 <V453000> /panic mode off 16:35:31 <Dozer> planetmaker no. I kinda just aborted the mission to get it working. 16:35:37 <Dozer> Was AndreasB able to get it to work? 16:37:22 <planetmaker> no clue 16:38:15 <V453000> he seems to be happy on our server now, idk with the savegame 16:38:28 <Dozer> planetmaker but basically, with or without the GRF's, the trick is to just transfer passengers from towns into a larger terminal, and the transport it from there with larger faster trains to other larger terminals, across the map, near big cities? 16:39:54 <planetmaker> that's the essence, yes. Makes it sound boring though ;-) while building it was loads of fun :D 16:40:19 <Dozer> Nono, I like it like that :D 16:40:28 <Dozer> It's simple as fuck, and I won't run out of ressources on that one. 16:41:30 <Dozer> But I noticed, when I transfer certain types to train terminals, does some sustain there, while other wither away over time? 16:41:48 <Dozer> Like, diamonds, I had them transfer from several sites to a big terminal, but they just disappeared over time. 16:42:12 <planetmaker> default industries don't wither way over time (unless it's oil wells) 16:42:54 <Dozer> Oh okay. The diamonds just.. disappeared from my transfer terminal for some reason. 16:43:31 <Eddi|zuHause> you need to keep rating above 50% at all times 16:43:35 <planetmaker> service frequency / quality might have been too bad 16:44:07 <planetmaker> diamonds have very low production, thus at least intially it needs low-capacity vehicles to pickup stuff 16:46:25 <Dozer> Yeah. But I just figured that, if I collect those from the site, and transfer it to a train terminal, that is sitting with no association to anything, and is in the middle of nowhere, it would just sit there, untill I pick it up with a larger train? 16:46:41 <Dozer> Or do I need to have a train come to that terminal in a high rate, for the stuff to not wither away over time? 16:47:46 <planetmaker> it would start to decay after station rating is <50% 16:48:12 <V453000> VERY slowly mind you XD 16:48:32 <V453000> we lately seem to get values like 600 000 passengers at stations rather often :| 16:48:32 <Dozer> aaaah okay 16:48:34 <Dozer> Now I get it. 16:50:28 *** xT2 [~ST2@bl20-249-40.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #openttd 16:55:30 *** ST2 [~ST2@2.81.249.40] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:55:31 <planetmaker> station rating calculation is a bit... awkward. It doesn't account for turn-over but only for 'currently waiting' 17:00:25 <Eddi|zuHause> hm, newest estimate says CDU absolute majority by 2 seats 17:00:46 <planetmaker> omg. That'd be disasterous :-( 17:01:28 <Eddi|zuHause> under the assumption that both FDP (4.6%) and AfD (4.9%) are out 17:01:35 <planetmaker> yeah 17:02:28 <Dozer> CDU is that the opposition atm, or is it Merkel's party? 17:02:35 <planetmaker> Merkel's 17:02:38 <Eddi|zuHause> that is Merkels party 17:02:54 <Eddi|zuHause> current government is CDU+FDP 17:03:21 <Dozer> ah okay 17:03:28 <Eddi|zuHause> AfD is a new euro-sceptics party, and SPD, Green and Left are the current opposition 17:16:34 *** tmsft [~id@37.140.124.50] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:29:11 <fjb> Moin. 17:29:18 *** Japa [~Japa@112.79.37.49] has joined #openttd 17:33:02 * fjb just came home from counting votes. 17:33:55 <Eddi|zuHause> oh, so it's your fault :p 17:38:16 *** Djohaal [~Djohaal@177.43.128.175] has joined #openttd 17:38:17 *** Djohaal [~Djohaal@177.43.128.175] has quit [] 17:38:49 * fjb is just telling the bad news. 17:45:56 <DorpsGek> Commit by translators :: r25795 /trunk/src/lang (5 files) (2013-09-22 17:45:44 UTC) 17:45:57 <DorpsGek> -Update from WebTranslator v3.0: 17:45:58 <DorpsGek> catalan - 6 changes by juanjo 17:45:59 <DorpsGek> korean - 4 changes by telk5093 17:46:00 <DorpsGek> lithuanian - 2 changes by Stabilitronas 17:46:01 <DorpsGek> polish - 5 changes by lion 17:46:02 <DorpsGek> russian - 2 changes by Lone_Wolf 17:46:13 *** Djohaal [~Djohaal@177.43.128.175] has joined #openttd 17:46:14 *** Djohaal [~Djohaal@177.43.128.175] has quit [] 17:46:41 <Eddi|zuHause> always shoot the messenger :p 17:47:39 * fjb hides. 17:49:42 <AndreasB> Do you guys have any tips on how to create good lines? 17:50:38 <fjb> Experience. 17:50:40 <AndreasB> One mainline going from A to B ? then sidelines supplying it? 17:50:40 <AndreasB> haha 17:50:43 <AndreasB> fjb: +1 17:51:32 * fjb usually lets it grow in an organic way. 17:51:49 <Eddi|zuHause> i'm rather in favour of wide networks instead of "narrow" trunk lines 17:53:44 *** Biolunar [mahdi@blfd-4d08e035.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: My life for Aiur] 18:03:14 <V453000> build stuff rather small, and when it is insufficient, expand it 18:03:17 <V453000> best way to learn 18:03:26 <V453000> and the most fun way to lpay 18:11:45 <AndreasB> But I need long lines. What I usually do is find a industry not too far away just to get income 18:11:49 <AndreasB> then build longer 18:16:03 <V453000> ok, and then you connect more industries 18:16:04 <fjb> Sounds reasonable. 18:16:07 <V453000> and build more trains to that line 18:16:17 <V453000> and from a line is suddenly network 18:16:32 <AndreasB> more resources you mean 18:17:20 <V453000> industries kind of mean resources yes :) 18:18:05 <AndreasB> You bring resources to industries. 18:19:41 <V453000> k so what do you add to your network, industries or resources? 18:19:45 <V453000> either results in more trains 18:20:12 <AndreasB> not really, if you add an industry without having the resources for it :ppp 18:20:47 <V453000> ._. 18:21:00 <V453000> aha you mean industry as the consumer 18:21:30 <V453000> in openttd we call all of those things industries, calling the raw cargo producers primary industries, and the factories etc are generally called secondary industries 18:38:39 *** glx [~glx@2a01:e35:2f59:c7c0:fdb5:39eb:ed9f:1e07] has joined #openttd 18:44:11 <AndreasB> :P 18:44:15 <AndreasB> ok, you win 18:51:04 *** DDR [~chatzilla@154.20.134.39] has joined #openttd 18:51:42 *** mode/#openttd [+o planetmaker] by ChanServ 18:51:42 *** mode/#openttd [+v Alberth] by ChanServ 18:51:42 *** mode/#openttd [+v Belugas] by ChanServ 18:51:42 *** mode/#openttd [+v peter1138] by ChanServ 18:51:42 *** mode/#openttd [+v DorpsGek] by ChanServ 18:51:45 *** mode/#openttd [+o SmatZ] by ChanServ 18:52:13 *** Zuu is now known as Guest25 18:59:27 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc10-aztw26-2-0-cust867.18-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 19:02:04 <Alberth> o/ 19:02:14 <Djohaal_> hey eddi, any progress with the daylenght patch? 19:04:59 <fjb> Moin Alberth 19:05:37 <Alberth> hi hi 19:10:16 *** Supercheese [~Superchee@98.145.157.55] has joined #openttd 19:14:17 *** valhalla1w [~valhallas@s55978e11.adsl.online.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:22:57 *** Bad_Brett [~bad@78-69-118-27-no42.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #openttd 19:39:48 <andythenorth> hmm 19:39:57 <andythenorth> forgotten how to code autoreft :P 19:40:00 <andythenorth> nvm, the spec knows :P 19:43:02 <Supercheese> set the bitflag, make sure refit cost is zero 19:43:17 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@5070A0D5.static.ziggozakelijk.nl] has joined #openttd 19:44:36 <andythenorth> so no need for cb? 19:44:38 <andythenorth> spec says not 19:44:55 <V453000> want my hints on how to code autorefit? :P 19:45:02 <andythenorth> yarp 19:45:04 <andythenorth> love em 19:45:04 <Supercheese> if (IsBitflagSet && refit_cost == 0) then CBNotNeeded 19:45:11 <V453000> dont code autorefit. :) 19:45:15 <Supercheese> hahahaha 19:45:47 <andythenorth> V453000: is autorefit evils? 19:45:53 <V453000> 300% 19:46:11 <Supercheese> if you don't use the refit_cost callback for other reasons, you don't need to add it for autorefit 19:46:21 <V453000> I dont think there is a single feature which would make less sense, including original train acceleration 19:46:55 <andythenorth> I am agreeing, but probably for different reasons to you 19:47:13 <andythenorth> I think the implementation is...needing some love 19:47:17 * Supercheese likes it 19:47:32 *** tycoondemon [~ashnohoe@ip503d7ac1.speed.planet.nl] has joined #openttd 19:47:47 <V453000> from a reason that could be familiar to you, if the player uses X cargoes, that means he needs to treat each one nicely, separately. Having trains automatically adapt means you always play with just one cargo 19:47:52 <V453000> which is boring to say the least 19:48:06 <andythenorth> 'stuff' 19:48:13 <V453000> stuff 19:48:32 <Supercheese> Heh, "Simpleton grf", one cargo produced and accepted by every industry 19:48:33 <V453000> imagine a firs game where all cargoes are basically the same 19:48:43 <Supercheese> someone should code that :P 19:49:14 *** DanMacK [~453f332b@188.cimarosa.openttdcoop.org] has joined #openttd 19:49:29 <juzza1> it would also have wagon speed limits 19:49:32 <Djohaal_> the whole refit mechanic is unecessary gameplay lard IMO 19:49:54 <V453000> you can do refit in depots by orders -> interesting refit networks 19:50:00 <V453000> autorefit -> normal network without anything extra 19:50:08 <Djohaal_> just lard 19:50:31 <V453000> is something that adds interesting things to the game lard? 19:50:35 <Djohaal_> yes 19:50:39 <V453000> ok 19:50:42 <V453000> wont even ask for an argument 19:50:58 <andythenorth> refitting in depots smells of wee imho 19:51:01 <Djohaal_> because it can be done much more elegantly with implicit refitting. In simutrans you can have a peice goods train hauling say... plastics, electronics and finished goods to a destionation 19:51:33 <Djohaal_> or hoppers hauling coal, sand and iron ore without having to refit 19:51:40 <Djohaal_> (obviously each hopper transports only one resource) 19:51:50 <Supercheese> innit dat... autorefit? 19:52:07 <V453000> andy refit is the best solution to firs. :) 19:52:16 <Djohaal_> autorefit has some pitfalls. Say you need to have the good route to exist so cargodist can start sending goods trough that branch 19:52:20 <Djohaal_> it turns into a catch-22 19:52:32 <V453000> lol cargodist 19:52:33 <Djohaal_> plus not all GRFs implement autorefit properly 19:52:36 <V453000> competitor for best feature n2 19:52:36 <Djohaal_> V453000: stfu 19:52:48 <andythenorth> does autorefit work with cdist? 19:52:57 <andythenorth> I suspect strongly that it doesn't 19:52:59 <V453000> some newGRFs like nuts completely ignore autorefit for mentioned reasons 19:53:04 <andythenorth> in fact, I proved that it doesn't 19:53:20 <Djohaal_> andythenorth: I assume it shouldn't unless you manually run a haul first so the link graph forms 19:53:22 <V453000> cdist doesnt make sense even without autorefit :) 19:53:42 <Supercheese> ^ that 19:54:00 <andythenorth> if 'deliver cargo to stations only where there is a demand' isn't turned off, autoreft is silently borked 19:54:08 <Djohaal_> and still, if supply wobbles the graph link might disappear 19:54:40 <andythenorth> I am +0.5 to removing autorefit from the game 19:54:52 <andythenorth> despite that I had to re-enginer my entire ship set to accomodate it 19:54:54 <andythenorth> :P 19:55:11 <Supercheese> I appreciated your work there :) 19:55:12 <V453000> just dont use it andy :) 19:55:18 <Djohaal_> it'd be a far more elegant if you could have carriages being able to carry certain "classes" of goods automatically 19:55:20 <Supercheese> FISH autorefit is very very useful 19:55:23 <Djohaal_> ie, simutrans solution 19:55:37 <V453000> go play simutrans and leave openttd alone Djohaal_ you dont have the brains for it 19:55:48 <Supercheese> keep is civil, gents 19:55:53 <andythenorth> Supercheese: tried it with cdist? 19:55:53 <Supercheese> it* 19:55:57 <V453000> is awesome 19:55:58 <Supercheese> Nein 19:56:02 <Supercheese> I don't like cdist 19:56:02 <Djohaal_> V453000: just go fuck yourself. Preferably with a 5 meter wood dildo. 19:56:05 *** sla_ro|master [slamaster@85.186.160.35] has quit [] 19:56:05 <V453000> :> 19:56:14 <Supercheese> Gentlemen, simmer down 19:56:19 <andythenorth> Supercheese: try cdist :P 19:56:25 <andythenorth> autorefit is borked with it :D 19:56:28 <V453000> nobody gives a fuck and I am done with him Supercheese :) 19:56:37 <andythenorth> sunday = sweary day 19:56:38 <Belugas> Djohaal_ that is quite harsh 19:56:47 <Djohaal_> he deserves it 19:56:49 <Supercheese> andy: no thanks, I've tried cdist several times and never liked it 19:57:00 <andythenorth> still, at least our number one source of quitting is not here 19:57:06 <Belugas> nope, he did call names 19:57:26 <andythenorth> tbh, we are way to polite around here on average 19:57:33 <andythenorth> we should declare one day per month, no holds barred 19:57:39 <andythenorth> it would be fun 19:57:44 <Supercheese> seems like that's today 19:57:48 * DanMacK slaps andythenorth around a bit with a large fishbot 19:58:06 <Djohaal_> if you think the five meter wood dildo is bad I didn't even get started =p 19:58:06 <andythenorth> DanMacK: you're too nice to be rude to ;) 19:58:23 <DanMacK> lol 19:58:33 <Djohaal_> actually, append "with splinters" to it 19:58:33 <andythenorth> Djohaal_: you need to escalate more slowly, you have gone straight for the big stick :P 19:58:42 <andythenorth> a good argument takes time to build :P 19:58:43 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@5070A0D5.static.ziggozakelijk.nl] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 19:58:46 <Djohaal_> I like big things 19:59:04 <Supercheese> The big stick is a Rooseveltian tactic 19:59:25 <Supercheese> although likely not in the same way as was used here :P 19:59:59 <Djohaal_> I am pretty sure wood dildos weren't a thing in teddy's time 20:00:48 <andythenorth> go research some history 20:00:57 <andythenorth> probably as old as tool-making 20:01:03 <Supercheese> I'm not sure. I'd rather stay that way. :P 20:01:32 <Djohaal_> actually I recall reading some news that they found some smooth stone sex toy in germany, dated some thousands of years 20:01:36 <Supercheese> although I suspect andy is right... 20:01:42 <Djohaal_> so yeah soapstone. Seems more confortable than wood full of splinters 20:02:07 <Supercheese> you could do some empirical research ;) 20:02:11 <V453000> your knowledge is shockingly awesome 20:02:37 <andythenorth> hmm 20:02:41 <andythenorth> what is Tourists? 20:02:45 <V453000> ecs XD 20:02:49 <andythenorth> should I make pax cars autorefit to handle it? 20:02:52 <Djohaal_> I'd rather not, I'm not willing to use any material that wasn't invented in the last 4 decades for sexual toys. And somehow chat got derailed from autorefitting to sex toy material 20:03:04 <Supercheese> autorefit to the Passengers cargo class takes care of it IIRC 20:03:15 <V453000> the only derailed one is you Djohaal_ , we keep our topic 20:03:17 <andythenorth> what is this 'autorefit to class' thing? 20:03:29 <Djohaal_> derp 20:03:39 <Supercheese> well, classes handled by the refittable_cargo_classes stuff 20:03:43 <andythenorth> nah 20:03:52 <Supercheese> bitmask(CC_PASSENGERS) or whatnot 20:03:52 <andythenorth> but yeah 20:04:00 <andythenorth> covered 20:04:09 <Supercheese> should be fine to just allow autorefit then 20:04:11 <andythenorth> the autorefit cb should be removed by the way 20:04:20 <andythenorth> frosch123 ^ can I request that for future grf version? 20:04:25 <andythenorth> it's broken fundamentally 20:04:50 <frosch123> why is it broken? 20:04:52 <Supercheese> I'm not sure any grf actually imposes a refit cost and then also allows autorefit 20:05:16 <Supercheese> I think UKRS2 disallows autorefit conditionally, but doesn't impose refit cost 20:05:47 <andythenorth> frosch123: it allows player to create invalid orders 20:05:55 <andythenorth> we have no other case for newgrf controlling orders 20:05:58 <andythenorth> afaik 20:06:16 <frosch123> how do they create invaild orders? 20:06:37 *** Alberth [~hat@a82-95-164-127.adsl.xs4all.nl] has left #openttd [] 20:07:27 <andythenorth> player can set up a 'go to x and refit' order, which the cb can silently deny, according to arbitrary conditions 20:08:17 <frosch123> well, should create a newpaper maybe 20:08:43 <andythenorth> it would be very hard for player to figure out 20:09:23 <frosch123> there are way worse grf mechanics 20:09:30 <frosch123> which make stuff hard to players to figure out 20:09:50 <andythenorth> I think this one is too easy to accidentally include 20:10:08 <andythenorth> I can't in fact see any valid case for the autorefit cb 20:10:15 <Supercheese> I've caused the broken orders like that before 20:10:22 <Supercheese> UKRS2's denial-of-autorefit 20:10:35 <Supercheese> took me a while to figure out why cargo was piling up 20:10:58 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@5070A0D5.static.ziggozakelijk.nl] has joined #openttd 20:11:39 <andythenorth> a vehicle should either be allowed to refit to all of its refittable cargos, xor none 20:12:35 <andythenorth> hmm 20:12:41 <andythenorth> from the spec for CB15E: "Negative cost factors allow refit revenue, useful for example if refits are used to change the number of articulated parts." 20:12:45 <Eddi|zuHause> for andythenorth, everything he doesn't fully understand, is broken :) 20:12:49 <frosch123> the gui filters for the autorefitable cargos 20:13:11 <frosch123> as long as your cb does not depend on time or other silly stuff, it should be fine 20:13:21 <andythenorth> digression - but htf do I even change the number of articulated parts based on refit? 20:13:26 <andythenorth> that's nonsense 20:13:41 <Eddi|zuHause> not the parts, but the "visible" parts 20:14:03 <andythenorth> still nonsense in the spec 20:14:36 <Eddi|zuHause> that half-sentence should probably not be in there 20:15:15 <andythenorth> fixed 20:15:24 <andythenorth> power of wiki :D 20:15:43 <andythenorth> I have savegames somewhere btw showing that autorefit is broken, I don't just make this crap up 20:15:48 <andythenorth> but nbm 20:15:52 <andythenorth> nvm :P 20:16:49 <andythenorth> specifically cb 15E should remain, but bit 14 should always be set 20:16:52 <andythenorth> that would solve it 20:17:08 <andythenorth> or bit 14 should be ignored by the autorefit check 20:19:26 <frosch123> night 20:19:29 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-590fe227.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: be yourself, except: if you have the opportunity to be a unicorn, then be a unicorn] 20:19:34 <Supercheese> andy: Fake subways does the autorefit-change-parts thing 20:19:57 <Supercheese> subtype is no. of carriages 20:20:14 <Supercheese> refitting to "more carriages" costs, refitting to "less carriages" refunds 20:20:22 <Supercheese> of course, autorefit is not allowed 20:21:50 *** Guest25 is now known as Zuu 20:21:55 <andythenorth> fake vehicles ;) 20:22:09 <Supercheese> it doesn't actually change articulated parts, of course 20:22:29 <Supercheese> just changes them from invisible to visible, and their properties 20:22:31 <Eddi|zuHause> the "fake" is not the vehicles but the underground :p 20:22:48 <Supercheese> much like HEQS trams eh? 20:22:52 <Eddi|zuHause> Supercheese: andythenorth knows that, because HEQS works the same way 20:22:56 <Supercheese> ninja'd 20:22:58 <Supercheese> :) 20:23:00 <andythenorth> :P 20:23:40 *** ntoskrnl [~not@a91-153-231-146.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:25:47 <Supercheese> more coffee 20:25:56 <V453000> java 20:26:32 <Supercheese> I love the java jive, and it loves me 20:33:05 *** Devroush [~dennis@dD5765BAC.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd 20:35:48 <Supercheese> Hmm, I should sign up for US English for the OTTD web translator, there's some strings that need fixing 20:36:55 *** smallfly [~smallfly@p5B0B6140.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 20:38:34 *** Devroush367 [~dennis@dD5765BAC.access.telenet.be] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:38:53 <Supercheese> http://account.openttd.org/en/profile "This page is currently incomplete, but it will be finished in the very near feature." 20:38:55 <Supercheese> http://web.archive.org/web/20090909135758/http://account.openttd.org/en/profile 20:39:05 <Supercheese> :S 20:41:28 *** mouseym [~mouseym@host-92-3-230-74.as43234.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:47:05 *** Mucht [~Martin@000128e2.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 20:48:15 *** smallfly [~smallfly@p5B0B6140.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [] 20:49:57 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@5070A0D5.static.ziggozakelijk.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:59:22 <V453000> :ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo nuts compiles without a single error or not refferenced message XD been a while since that 20:59:46 <DanMacK> Thats nuts! 20:59:47 <DanMacK> :P 20:59:54 <V453000> at the time the silent command line for 15 minutes feels kind of boring :| 20:59:59 <V453000> at the same time* 21:00:19 <V453000> when it was outputting errors I was at least sure it is alive :D 21:00:32 <V453000> thats not so nuts :( 21:00:52 <Supercheese> aww, nuts 21:06:02 <V453000> DanMacK: if you wanted to consult something like a table of colours for e.g. hopper cargoes, I have them somewhere :P 21:06:15 <V453000> I have basically every cargo known in ecs/firs/pikka thing 21:06:41 <V453000> so if you wanted to synchronize [or be lazy], I have recolour pixel things in my sprites prepared for sharing 21:07:05 <andythenorth> hmm 21:07:16 <andythenorth> recolour thingy o_O 21:07:22 <V453000> not recolour sprites 21:07:23 <V453000> . 21:07:24 <V453000> :) 21:07:28 <V453000> just pixel tables 21:07:33 <andythenorth> ok 21:07:45 <andythenorth> I could automate those in the compile... 21:07:48 <V453000> also from what I understood, recolour sprites prevent you from using CC1 and CC2 21:07:50 <V453000> which is ass 21:08:43 <andythenorth> yup 21:09:02 *** Dozer| [Dozer@0x5e912f54.adsl.cybercity.dk] has joined #openttd 21:09:20 <V453000> either way, if you wanted that, I have it ready ... better ask me though because I have many of them in many files and vast majority of them arent "latestů 21:09:23 <V453000> "latest" 21:09:25 <DanMacK> lmao 21:09:39 <DanMacK> I planned to pilfer from CHIPS 21:10:01 <V453000> chips has the piles quite ugly tbh :| 21:10:13 <andythenorth> I am not loving chips piles 21:10:16 <andythenorth> they match HEQS 21:10:23 <andythenorth> I am not loving HEQS cargo colours 21:10:25 <Supercheese> Yeah, I prefer ISR piles of stuff over CHIPS piles of stuff 21:10:40 <DanMacK> well, its only a few pixels for hoppers 21:10:52 <andythenorth> I could fix chips if someone could just do it for me :P 21:10:56 <V453000> make it a lot of pixels to make it nice :) 21:11:06 <Supercheese> ISR is GPL... :D 21:11:15 <DanMacK> heh 21:11:41 <andythenorth> ISR piles aren't nice 21:11:51 <andythenorth> they don't fit one tile iirc 21:11:56 <V453000> https://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/nuts/repository/changes/gfx/maglevhopper.png 21:12:11 *** Dozer [Dozer@0x5e912f54.adsl.cybercity.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:12:11 *** Dozer| is now known as Dozer 21:13:40 <DanMacK> V453000, I think I'll use some of that if you don't mind 21:13:51 <V453000> I absolutely dont 21:14:13 <V453000> that is why I suggested them 21:17:44 <V453000> anyway. good night 21:17:57 <V453000> ps note that it also matters how you draw the things :P colours wont do everything 21:18:14 <V453000> I have many hopper wagons in my repository, you could even copypaste some heaps if you want 21:18:38 <V453000> if you need smaller ones, some medium loading stages might have those 21:19:07 <V453000> esp https://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/nuts/repository/entry/gfx/SHI_S_hopper.png 21:19:10 <V453000> bai 21:19:27 *** HerzogDeXtEr1 [~flex@i59F6A450.versanet.de] has joined #openttd 21:23:30 <Supercheese> I'm seeing a lot of conflicts between en_GB and en_US translations regarding {STRING2} vs. {STRING} vs. {RAW_STRING} 21:23:59 *** Elukka [~Elukka@a91-152-213-89.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [] 21:24:14 *** TomyLobo [~foo@91-65-113-111-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Quit: Standby mode...] 21:24:33 <Supercheese> Perhaps the code changed at some point and the en_US translation was never changed to match? 21:24:42 <Supercheese> string-drawing code, that is 21:24:56 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~flex@i59F6B86B.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:28:22 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc10-aztw26-2-0-cust867.18-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has left #openttd [] 21:32:21 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1AE9C.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:32:49 *** Alice3 [~Alice@cpc18-grim14-2-0-cust478.12-3.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [] 21:42:20 *** DanMacK [~453f332b@188.cimarosa.openttdcoop.org] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 21:44:00 *** DanMacK [~d83be6a7@188.cimarosa.openttdcoop.org] has joined #openttd 21:47:04 *** gelignite [~gelignite@i528C3FE1.versanet.de] has quit [Quit: http://bit.ly/nkczDT] 21:53:08 *** perk11 [~perk11@broadband-46-242-13-101.nationalcablenetworks.ru] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:54:34 *** DanMacK [~d83be6a7@188.cimarosa.openttdcoop.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:00:10 <Wolf01> 'night 22:00:15 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@0001288e.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.] 22:01:01 *** perk11 [~perk11@broadband-46-242-13-101.nationalcablenetworks.ru] has joined #openttd 22:04:43 *** Djohaal [~Djohaal@177.43.128.175] has joined #openttd 22:04:43 *** Djohaal [~Djohaal@177.43.128.175] has quit [] 22:05:10 *** oskari89 [oskari89@62-241-226-106.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit [] 22:09:28 *** Dozer| [Dozer@0x5e912f54.adsl.cybercity.dk] has joined #openttd 22:12:43 *** DanMacK [~d83bfde0@188.cimarosa.openttdcoop.org] has joined #openttd 22:14:59 *** Dozer [Dozer@0x5e912f54.adsl.cybercity.dk] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 22:14:59 *** Dozer| is now known as Dozer 22:28:06 *** Prof_Frink [~proffrink@87.114.21.53] has joined #openttd 22:46:51 *** Zuu [~Zuu@ns.sdrf.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:53:18 *** jjavaholic [~jjavaholi@grahamg63.plus.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:09:21 *** Dozer [Dozer@0x5e912f54.adsl.cybercity.dk] has quit [Quit: - nbs-irc 2.39 - www.nbs-irc.net -] 23:28:15 *** DanMacK [~d83bfde0@188.cimarosa.openttdcoop.org] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 23:36:41 *** Devroush [~dennis@dD5765BAC.access.telenet.be] has quit []