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If so, can I place two stations adjacent without connecting them as one? 05:54:47 <Eearslya> Train stations, to clarify. 05:56:47 *** ivan` [~ivan`@000130ca.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 06:00:59 <Supercheese> You can have two adjacent stations that are logically separate (i.e. different station signs) 06:01:17 <Supercheese> Hold ctrl while building and select separate station 06:06:08 <Hazzard> Stations can hold multiple types of resources at once 06:06:22 *** Hazzard [~quassel@c-67-174-253-44.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:10:36 <Eearslya> Well then I'm confused as to why this iron ore mine isn't giving up its ore D: 06:11:37 <planetmaker> moin 06:12:24 <planetmaker> Eearslya: does the wagon transport the wrong cargo? 06:13:29 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc10-aztw26-2-0-cust867.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has joined #openttd 06:13:49 <planetmaker> ho andythenorth^Wearly 06:14:04 <andythenorth> quite late :P 06:14:10 <andythenorth> usually Iâm up at 5.30 06:14:32 <planetmaker> kids are like that, I always hear ;) 06:14:47 <planetmaker> I find 8am very early for Sundays. 7 even worse :) 06:16:23 <Eearslya> Ahhhh I didn't realize I had to refit it... 06:16:50 *** tokai|mdlx [~tokai@port-92-195-14-253.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #openttd 06:16:54 <rubidium> well... my circadian rhythm wakes me up every day around the same time (07:00) 06:20:35 <planetmaker> :) not the worst thing (nor time) 06:23:09 *** tokai|noir [~tokai@00012860.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 06:28:27 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc10-aztw26-2-0-cust867.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 06:29:58 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc10-aztw26-2-0-cust867.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has joined #openttd 06:33:10 <andythenorth> hmm 06:33:21 <andythenorth> someone is wrong on the internet.... 06:33:53 <Supercheese> zounds 06:35:19 <planetmaker> wrong on the internet? Impossible! 06:35:37 <andythenorth> I donât know how many times I can be arsed to correct this GPL crap 06:35:41 <andythenorth> itâs only a game 06:35:50 <andythenorth> do we really care about the legality of newgrfs? 06:36:09 <Supercheese> Ehh, seemingly only for flagrant breaches of conduct 06:36:29 <Supercheese> such as posting binaries without license on the official forums 06:36:29 <andythenorth> kamnet is just talking shit here http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=1114258#p1114258 06:36:42 <andythenorth> you donât get to pick and choose bits of a license as you see fit 06:36:43 *** Alberth [~hat@2001:981:c6c5:1:be5f:f4ff:feac:e11] has joined #openttd 06:36:44 *** mode/#openttd [+o Alberth] by ChanServ 06:36:44 <Supercheese> although that's not newgrf 06:36:53 <Alberth> moin 06:36:56 <andythenorth> moin Alberth 06:37:06 <planetmaker> hi Alberth 06:37:18 <planetmaker> andythenorth, I fear, it should be clarified there. Will you? 06:37:25 <andythenorth> I donât want to derail Phreezeâs thread :( 06:37:31 <andythenorth> but itâs just plain wrong 06:37:41 <andythenorth> Kamnet always _sounds_ so authoritative 06:37:49 <andythenorth> but is seriously an armchair expert 06:38:14 <andythenorth> Phreeze: going to derail your thread, sorry 06:38:31 <planetmaker> but then, not sure it's worth the effort here 06:39:28 <planetmaker> is cc-by-sa incompatible with gpl? 06:39:54 <andythenorth> absolutely 100% 06:40:01 <andythenorth> on both sides (I think) 06:40:28 <rubidium> -nc definitely is incompatible with GPL 06:41:12 *** Flygon [~Flygon@147.18.214.218.sta.commander.net.au] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:41:48 <andythenorth> https://www.gnu.org/licenses/license-list.html#ccbysa 06:43:24 <planetmaker> -nc and -nd undoubtly are incompatible for sure 06:45:54 <planetmaker> andythenorth, not worth. it's gplv2 on bananas ;) 06:47:27 <planetmaker> https://rhodecode.openttdcoop.org/pota-ghat/files/6d42aae1fb1f94ab4c14d02cf953b447174a5030/docs/license.txt <-- Am I at fault? :) 06:47:28 <Phreeze> just woke up, and again a license discussion ^^ 06:47:42 <planetmaker> moin :) 06:48:20 <andythenorth> planetmaker: dual-license? 06:48:38 <Phreeze> i think some newgrfs are dual license 06:48:40 <andythenorth> youâre not incorporating material solely licensed under one license into a project with incompatible licensing 06:48:43 *** talebowl [~delltvgat@ip-83-134-116-91.dsl.scarlet.be] has joined #openttd 06:48:49 <Phreeze> from what i've reda in their readmes at least ;) 06:49:00 <andythenorth> dual licensing is *always* valid if you are are the copyright holder of the licensed work 06:49:03 <planetmaker> andythenorth, not exactly dual-licensed. The 32bpp there are only cc-by-sa 06:49:11 <planetmaker> there=with pota-ghat 06:49:15 <andythenorth> the problems only kick in for stuff youâre not the copyright holder on 06:49:48 *** Flygon [~Flygon@147.18.214.218.sta.commander.net.au] has joined #openttd 06:49:49 <planetmaker> and I can't change the cc-by-sa for the textures. they're not mine. 06:50:01 <planetmaker> But found in the same license bundling in its original form 06:50:38 <Phreeze> imo the SA says: credit that guy for exactly his parts 06:51:01 <planetmaker> that's the BY part. SA means share the stuff under the same conditions you got it 06:51:08 <Phreeze> i think it's within the license, if you just credit all theguys 06:51:15 <Phreeze> yeah, BY , never know what part ^^ 06:51:26 <andythenorth> planetmaker: youâd have to do wavey-hands about the texturs being content, not part of the program 06:51:46 <planetmaker> there's grfstrip to get rid of the 32bpp here, too ;) 06:52:51 <planetmaker> Phreeze, anyhow, I think that there's not a problem for you but only in how kamnet understands licenses :) 06:53:31 <planetmaker> now back to more productive stuff.... 06:53:31 <andythenorth> Phreeze: yes the issue was some 100% incorrect advice 06:53:38 <andythenorth> licenses = boring :( 06:53:48 <planetmaker> 100% boring 06:53:54 <Phreeze> yeah...should have defines that all newgrfs must be gpl ;) 06:53:59 <Phreeze> *defined 06:54:05 <planetmaker> yes 06:54:36 <Phreeze> afk feeding dog and taking a shower...damn it's before 9h00... 06:54:52 <Phreeze> (and is still dont get it, why my PC woke up from sleep at 4h27 or so) 06:56:47 <andythenorth> for the record :| 06:57:03 <andythenorth> licensing isnât particularly interesting, and it will never come to a court 06:57:15 <andythenorth> but when people do it wrong, it causes boring forum drama 06:57:35 <andythenorth> âartistsâ get annoyed, other people issue cease-and-desist on our ISPs etc 06:57:45 <Supercheese> license disputes are blergh 06:58:22 <Phreeze> i think, ottd artists want others use their grf 06:58:28 <Phreeze> but some want credit 06:58:31 <andythenorth> they would be a non-issue if fuckheads would stop giving bad advice 06:58:54 <Phreeze> therefore a CCBYSA...they don't care or know or think about getting others into a dilemma ;) 06:59:24 <Phreeze> nevertheless, I've redrawn those CCBYSA pixel by pixel anway 06:59:38 <Phreeze> it's not that much effort with those small sprites ;) 06:59:49 <Phreeze> (*redrawn the parts i wanted to use 07:01:28 *** Pensacola [~quassel@h220216.upc-h.chello.nl] has joined #openttd 07:01:38 *** DanMacK [~0a0a6574@188.cimarosa.openttdcoop.org] has joined #openttd 07:01:45 <DanMacK> Hey hey 07:01:47 <andythenorth> hey Dan9550 07:01:48 <Alberth> hi hi danmack 07:01:49 <andythenorth> oops 07:01:51 <Flygon> A rrelative who used to work at an ISP noted they got C&Ds daily from all sorts of companies (@ andythenorth) 07:01:54 *** zeknurn [~sup@hd9483b0c.seveveb.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:01:57 <andythenorth> DanMacK :) 07:02:03 <Flygon> The workers in the NOC would basically torrent everything they could 07:02:13 <Flygon> It's baffling the ISP never got sued 07:02:36 *** zeknurn [~sup@hd9483b0c.seveveb.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has joined #openttd 07:04:55 <Phreeze> for those not familiar with this: C&D and NOC means WHAT ? :) 07:07:35 <Supercheese> Cease & Desist, I presume 07:07:52 <Supercheese> dunno about NOC 07:09:52 <andythenorth> network operating centre or such 07:12:05 <Dan9550> hello 07:12:07 <Supercheese> My professor would be displeased; I've borrowed some translations from the Latin translation of Harry Potter 07:12:48 <Supercheese> he never liked those books, for some reason 07:14:43 <Supercheese> well, dormiturus sum, valete omnes 07:14:51 *** Supercheese [~Superchee@76.178.136.186] has quit [Quit: Valete omnes] 07:20:45 <Eddi|zuHause> <andythenorth> v is a diplomatist <-- is that a person who hates diplomats? 07:25:40 *** sla_ro|master [slamaster@95.76.164.39] has joined #openttd 07:26:34 <Phreeze> paypal is great 07:26:44 <Phreeze> at least for donations and for the economy, not for my account ^^ 07:27:18 <Phreeze> i donated 3eur to wikipedia. If there wasn't that "click click done" method, e.g. a normal bank transfer, i'd be too lazy 07:27:58 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc10-aztw26-2-0-cust867.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 07:29:54 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc10-aztw26-2-0-cust867.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has joined #openttd 07:32:39 <Eddi|zuHause> <Phreeze> how do you all sort your trains in newgrfs ? i'm not sure if i should sort by engine, then name <-- https://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/cets/repository/entry/scripts/helper.py (basically: cargo, traction type, intro date, original company, name)) 07:33:41 <Eddi|zuHause> name is like the least important to sort for 07:34:12 <Eddi|zuHause> the "cargo" part is mostly for wagons 07:34:43 <andythenorth> railytype, intro date, 07:34:57 <andythenorth> except rail and elrail are same 07:35:18 <andythenorth> just do what seems right and play test it tbh 07:35:22 <andythenorth> thereâs no golden rule 07:41:16 <andythenorth> hmm 07:41:21 <andythenorth> this is going to go badly 07:42:24 *** Devroush [~dennis@dD5765BAC.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd 07:50:25 <DanMacK> ?? 07:50:54 <planetmaker> quite. I'll split that, andythenorth 07:55:13 *** Progman [~progman@p57A18B56.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 07:57:51 <andythenorth> ta 07:58:05 <Phreeze> hm i forogot to mention that the newgrf starts 1949 and that original trains are disabled. i should add a parameter for that 07:58:09 <planetmaker> no worries 08:02:48 <Phreeze> are there bots that download Newgrf automatically ? 08:03:15 <Phreeze> just seen that my old LUnames grf was downloaded nearly 41k .... can't imagine that people want luxembourgish town names ^^ 08:05:41 <planetmaker> people want everything 08:12:15 * LordAro appearo 08:12:31 <Phreeze> oh a Lord appears 08:12:46 <LordAro> bow before me, peasant 08:13:23 <LordAro> :p 08:13:39 <Phreeze> can someone tell me, why in my ingame bananas, i always have 2 versions of Av8 ? 08:13:55 <Phreeze> in my content_download, i have 1.81 and 2.21. the 1.81 has a NEWER timestamp 08:14:23 <Phreeze> same goes for basemod 3.2.1 which was "updated" yesterday, and i have basemod 4.0 from 2012 08:14:55 <Phreeze> is it cause i use "older" versions in some savegame ? 08:15:11 <LordAro> you downloaded the 1.81 after 2.21, as it was a dependency of a scenario or something 08:15:15 <LordAro> i think 08:15:28 <Alberth> it may be because your openttd is too old? 08:15:46 <Phreeze> 1.4.0 08:15:58 <Phreeze> i think it's cause of an older savegame 08:16:09 <Phreeze> i just delete those, and start openttd and see what happens 08:16:17 <Phreeze> OpenGFX_Industries-0.3.4.tar 08:16:21 <Phreeze> OpenGFX_Industries-VERSION.tar 08:16:25 <Phreeze> version ? :D 08:16:43 <Alberth> technically, you can have newer versions than 1.4.0, but it's unlikely 08:16:53 <Eddi|zuHause> i think there's some old av8 addon set that has 1.81 as dependency 08:17:12 <Eddi|zuHause> that's why it's also available 08:17:13 <Phreeze> apache heliciopter perhaps, i got that one too 08:17:16 * Phreeze wipes it 08:17:33 <LordAro> why are you so concerned by it? 08:17:40 <Eddi|zuHause> it has nothing to do with what you downloaded 08:17:46 <Phreeze> i want to have it clean 08:18:01 <Alberth> ha ha :) 08:18:11 <Phreeze> i want to select or deselt av8, not "err what's the latest av8 then...click click click ah that one" 08:18:30 <Alberth> it's an open source project, with distributed control. It's not ever going to be clean 08:24:07 <LordAro> surely only the latest will be displayed in the 'select newgrf' list ? 08:25:31 <planetmaker> don't mention the $VERSION :P 08:25:37 <Eearslya> Can I have a station be an intermediary for a resource? ie. Train picks up mail in city 1, drops it off at a station, and a road vehicle comes by to bring it the rest of the way to the city 08:26:08 <planetmaker> Eearslya, transfer orders are your friend. Also check the wiki for it 08:27:36 <planetmaker> Phreeze, I'm always amazed by the obsession of 'clean' folders people want. But gather zillions of unused mp3 or so which each is larger in size than the average grf 08:27:46 <planetmaker> worse gather unseend video files... 08:27:51 <planetmaker> *unwatched 08:28:09 <Alberth> Eearslya: http://wiki.openttd.org/Feeder_service 08:28:18 <Phreeze> aaand found a bug ^^ a diesel that has a design date of 195 08:28:20 <Phreeze> ;) 08:28:52 <Alberth> planetmaker: perhaps the unclear mechanism is the problem? 08:29:02 <planetmaker> Alberth, of feeder services? 08:29:21 <Alberth> of wanting clean newgrf folders 08:29:22 <planetmaker> or of how grf deps work? :) 08:29:59 <planetmaker> maybe, yeah. dunno. I never got the idea to want a 'clean' folder there. The more less issue in trying to debug some crappy savegame ;) 08:30:19 <planetmaker> and the startup time is no concern even with ~1.5k grfs around on my hdd to search for 08:33:16 <planetmaker> but how to explain the 'mechanism'? What *is* the actual mechanism and the issue with it? 08:33:42 <planetmaker> OpenTTD - at least at one point in time - needed the stuff it put there or which you put there actively yourself 08:34:03 <planetmaker> and if you treasure your savegames, you'll need it again, most likely 08:35:25 <planetmaker> so... which actions convert water into land or vice versa? 08:35:38 <planetmaker> raising or lowering land. and levelling land. and clearing land. Anything else? 08:35:57 <Alberth> flooding 08:36:28 <planetmaker> oh, of course :) thanks 08:36:51 <planetmaker> building rivers, I guess 08:36:57 <planetmaker> or canals 08:37:02 <Alberth> :) 08:37:02 <Phreeze> in fact, i dont want a clean folder, i want a clean list 08:37:15 <Phreeze> as the in the GRF download, there are 2 av8 downloads 08:38:01 <Alberth> Phreeze: nobody ever looked at it from a user perspective in the general sense, just like all gui stuff 08:38:22 <planetmaker> probably needs a 'hide' button :) 08:38:34 <planetmaker> though we should call it 'delete' ;) 08:38:36 <Phreeze> yeah hide ;) 08:38:52 <Alberth> "make it go away" :p 08:38:56 <Eearslya> planetmaker: So from what I'm reading, it's not possib le to have the train drop off all its mail, then pick up coal at the same place, without also getting the mail back 08:38:56 <Phreeze> i just deselected them and i use av9 ;) 08:39:00 <planetmaker> ho begone! ;) 08:39:30 <Alberth> Eearslya: correct, at least without cargodist 08:39:33 <Phreeze> Eearslya: use 2 trains. Mail and coal on 1 train...hm bad idea, fast freight and slow freight combined 08:39:37 <planetmaker> Eearslya, that's possible, if you have *one* wagon which carries mail one-way, refit to coal and then loads coal 08:39:44 <planetmaker> but those wagons might not exist :) 08:39:58 * Alberth hates coal dust on his mail 08:40:15 <planetmaker> :) 08:40:36 <planetmaker> refit includes cleansing of the wagon. It won't be coal-dusted. But soap-soaked ;) 08:40:53 <Eearslya> Alright, well barring all that, can I just make this train stop accepting mail? The engines themselves can hold mail, so I can't exactly just remove it 08:41:23 <Alberth> can you refit the engine? 08:41:33 <planetmaker> Eearslya, can you refit the engine to *not* hold mail? you can't otherwise stop it 08:41:39 <Phreeze> just leave those mail in it ^^ 08:41:54 <Phreeze> like in real life "oh i'm sure that mail was delivered correctly!" 08:42:21 <Phreeze> to be honest: do not use those engines to transport coal ^^ ever seen a TGV with coal wagons ? ;) 08:43:22 *** DanMacK [~0a0a6574@188.cimarosa.openttdcoop.org] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 08:43:50 <Eearslya> I'm using it because it's currently the fastest I have 08:43:54 <Taede> i have actually, in my old savegames 08:43:54 <Eearslya> And yes, I could refit it 08:44:02 <Eearslya> Will the station eventually stop collecting mail? 08:45:10 <planetmaker> no, it won't 08:46:39 *** strohalm [~smoofi@80.84.209.151] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:46:47 <andythenorth> reift is awesomely powerful, it allows petrol <-> milk 08:46:59 *** strohalm [~smoofi@80.84.209.151] has joined #openttd 08:47:27 <Phreeze> i failed hard :X 08:47:36 <Phreeze> disabled default trains in grf 08:47:40 <Phreeze> now i have no wagons ;) 08:47:53 <Phreeze> gotta look up the ids for those hehe 08:48:48 <Eearslya> I'm having fun with FIRS 08:50:23 <andythenorth> which economy? 08:52:05 <Phreeze> what version does the bananas read ? the one i indicate when uploading, or the: "version: 1;" from the source code ? 08:53:05 <Phreeze> in the source code, i cant use 1.1 !? for some reason it wants an integer 08:53:45 <Eearslya> Economy? 08:53:53 <Eddi|zuHause> the version in the source code is for determining which one is newer 08:53:53 <andythenorth> itâs a parameter on FIRS 08:54:03 <andythenorth> hmm 08:54:08 <andythenorth> why do we still call them parameters? 08:54:15 <andythenorth> why donât we call them options, or settings? 08:54:17 <Eddi|zuHause> it does not need fancy sub-versioning 08:54:27 <andythenorth> âparameterâ is exposing the implementation to user 08:54:43 <Phreeze> ahhh ok, so i just increment by 1 in the source code, and in banas i call it 1.1 and so on 08:54:52 <Eearslya> FIRS economy, whatever that may mean 08:55:01 <andythenorth> Eearslya: thatâs the really big one :) 08:55:09 <andythenorth> I no longer like it 08:55:09 <Eearslya> In what way? 08:55:10 <andythenorth> too big 08:55:29 <Eddi|zuHause> Phreeze: basically, whenever you upload your grf anywhere, the internal version must be higher than all before. 08:55:31 <planetmaker> Phreeze, source code versions are integer. How you call it for user purposes is up to you 08:55:52 <planetmaker> you can also call it monkey, zebra, zealot, frog, beaver.... 08:56:14 <Eearslya> Why are my engines backwards D: 08:56:18 <Eddi|zuHause> give it fibonacci numbers 08:56:30 <planetmaker> Eearslya, try ctrl+click? 08:56:56 <Phreeze> i'll give them binary numbers...starting decimal 13424532 08:57:02 <andythenorth> Eearslya: http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/firs/push/LATEST/docs/html/get_started.html 08:57:10 <andythenorth> or better http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/firs/push/LATEST/docs/html/economies.html 08:57:26 <Eddi|zuHause> there are binary fibonacci numbers 08:58:16 <Eearslya> FIRS is the one I like then, I added it to have more industries after all 08:58:40 <andythenorth> he :D 08:59:51 <Phreeze> bananas error: A pack should contain only one type. 08:59:56 <Phreeze> what am i doing wrong ? 09:00:16 <Phreeze> in the zip, i got the grf, tne PNGs and the readme.txt 09:00:23 <Phreeze> and language and license 09:01:15 <Phreeze> removed gfx...now it says Unknown file in pack: english.lng 09:01:43 <andythenorth> donât include the source? 09:01:52 <Phreeze> k, with just text files and grf it works 09:08:23 <Eearslya> It's amazing how 3 buses can turn a population 3000 city into a sprawling population 37000 metropolis 09:08:33 <Eearslya> Just gotta give it 43 years 09:08:34 <Phreeze> after years, yes ;) 09:09:00 <Phreeze> i have a city like that, with a train station served by 2 trains and 3 buses with 10000 people waiting ^^ 09:09:21 <Phreeze> i then realised that the town has become like 10times the size as before 09:10:15 <Eearslya> Yeah, this was the first city I set up in, then moved away and spent 30 years getting my train system working proper..come back and see it's huge now 09:10:25 <Phreeze> ^^ 09:10:33 <Phreeze> gotta go, see you 09:10:38 *** Phreeze [~p@vodsl-4744.vo.lu] has quit [] 09:14:04 <andythenorth> fricking autorefit 09:14:11 * andythenorth canât figure out why itâs failing 09:14:26 <andythenorth> I have a vehicle with orders set to refit between pax and mail 09:14:29 <andythenorth> fixed cargos 09:14:44 <andythenorth> it does the first refit from pax -> mail 09:14:51 <andythenorth> but then wonât refit mail -> pax 09:14:58 <andythenorth> no feedback, no error mesages 09:15:02 <andythenorth> just broken orders 09:15:21 <andythenorth> thereâs no cargo on the vehicle, nor any waiting 09:16:03 <andythenorth> depot refit works 09:18:17 <andythenorth> refit between mail and ENSP works 09:18:50 <andythenorth> but wonât refit back to pax at stations 09:48:10 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~flex@i59F6BF6F.versanet.de] has joined #openttd 09:48:55 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@s55978e11.adsl.online.nl] has joined #openttd 09:51:44 <andythenorth> present in tip too 09:52:48 <andythenorth> Iâm not running the autorefit cb 09:52:55 <andythenorth> do I need to use that as well as the property? 09:54:00 <andythenorth> specs say not 09:54:19 <planetmaker> refit in stations requires that afaik 09:54:44 <planetmaker> but not 100% positive 09:54:46 *** MJP [~mjp@hq.z77.fr] has joined #openttd 09:55:00 <andythenorth> weird that it would only be required for PAX? 09:58:06 <planetmaker> andythenorth, iirc, the refit *property* describes the possible refits in a depot 09:58:17 <planetmaker> if you want station-refit, you need to call the callback 09:58:20 <andythenorth> nah 09:58:27 <andythenorth> specs say set refit_cost to 0 09:58:29 <andythenorth> and set the flag 09:58:36 <andythenorth> this is a bug with PAX 09:58:48 <andythenorth> either in my code, or ttd, or nml 09:59:03 <andythenorth> but my codeâŠthere isnât any specific to this 09:59:53 <planetmaker> hm, good news... my job funding is safe beyond next year. Unless Russians kill access to the space station :P 10:00:33 <andythenorth> :P 10:01:48 <andythenorth> yeah autorefit is still just bugged 10:02:54 <planetmaker> ah, I wasn't aware of the "or prop 1C specifies zero cost" 10:02:56 <andythenorth> Iâll have to make a save and post :P 10:03:42 <andythenorth> think Iâve seen this before with ships too 10:06:51 <andythenorth> planetmaker: if you fancied verifyingâŠIron Horse is on bananas. Tin Rocket (1998) auto-refits all freight cargo, wonât auto-refit to PAX 10:06:56 <andythenorth> but depot refits are fine 10:07:07 <andythenorth> this is at an empty station with no cargo waiting etc 10:07:32 <andythenorth> and cdist set to manual 10:07:58 <andythenorth> I wouldnât rule out a bug in my code, but I suspect that auto-refit continues to have issues 10:08:06 <andythenorth> every time itâs looked at, something is found :P 10:08:20 <andythenorth> I have tested with compile of tip 10:08:36 * andythenorth has to go do chores 10:08:38 <andythenorth> bbl 10:08:40 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc10-aztw26-2-0-cust867.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 10:16:22 *** gelignite [~gelignite@i528C3DC3.versanet.de] has joined #openttd 10:17:32 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-4d009d27.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 10:18:16 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@0001288e.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 10:25:32 <Wolf01> moin 10:32:21 *** kais58|AFK is now known as kais58__1 10:32:21 <planetmaker> o/ 10:34:05 *** Pikka [~Octomom@d110-32-11-122.rdl800.qld.optusnet.com.au] has joined #openttd 10:36:34 *** oskari89 [oskari89@83-102-63-32.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined #openttd 10:47:48 <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: Commit by frosch :: r26460 /branches/1.4 (13 files in 3 dirs) (2014-04-13 10:47:39 UTC) 10:47:49 <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: [1.4] -Backport from trunk: 10:47:50 <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: - Fix: Do not crash when supplying an invalid filename without extension to cmd parameter -q (r26423) 10:47:51 <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: - Fix: Some road constructions used the rail sound effect [FS#5946] (r26422) 10:47:52 <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: - Fix: Goal GUI failed to shade [FS#5948] (r26420) 10:47:53 <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: (...) 10:50:51 *** MagisterQuis1 [~Adium@71.206.53.147] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:51:18 *** MagisterQuis [~Adium@71.206.53.147] has joined #openttd 10:51:25 <planetmaker> uh, what? 10:52:22 <planetmaker> hm, looks like frosch using hgsubversion :P 10:52:29 <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: Commit by frosch :: r26461 /branches/1.4 (8 files in 5 dirs) (2014-04-13 10:52:19 UTC) 10:52:30 <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: [1.4] -Backport from trunk: 10:52:31 <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: - Fix: Avoid division by 0 when scaling flow values [FS#5970] (r26448) 10:52:32 <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: - Feature: Draw links to match _settings_game.vehicle.road_side [FS#5961] (r26445) 10:52:33 <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: - Change: Use pkg-config for libpng as well (r26435, r26433, r26432) 10:52:34 <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: (...) 10:53:11 <frosch123> planetmaker: no, why? 10:53:37 <planetmaker> time difference. But I guess the two hours is just the clock difference between dorpsgek and local time 10:54:01 <frosch123> 10:47 UTC and 12:47 CEST look fine to me 10:54:34 <planetmaker> yup. But I first wondered. Then realized ;) 10:54:52 <planetmaker> first talk. Then think :P 11:05:29 *** yorick [~yorick@ip51cd0513.speed.planet.nl] has joined #openttd 11:10:11 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc10-aztw26-2-0-cust867.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has joined #openttd 11:18:14 <LordAro> dem TrueBrain highights 11:20:32 <TrueBrain> @kick LordAro please dont highlight me unneededly; it is rude *trolls* 11:20:32 *** LordAro was kicked from #openttd by DorpsGek [please dont highlight me unneededly; it is rude *trolls*] 11:20:38 <TrueBrain> he so had that coming :P 11:21:53 <planetmaker> don't mess with da FalseBrain ;) 11:22:02 <Pikka> TrueBrain, "needlessly" or "unnecessarily" ;) 11:22:12 *** LordAro [~LordAro@213.138.101.13] has joined #openttd 11:22:13 <andythenorth> lo bob 11:22:14 <LordAro> :( 11:22:15 <planetmaker> :D 11:22:19 <Pikka> lo bob andy 11:22:25 <TrueBrain> Pikka: what can I say .. I am special :D 11:22:28 <andythenorth> it is a pikka 11:22:36 <TrueBrain> <3 Lord Aro 11:23:07 <Pikka> isn't it 11:23:24 <andythenorth> did anyone make a GS yet? 11:23:33 <Pikka> did you? 11:24:05 <Pikka> if not, then probably not. 11:24:05 <andythenorth> no 11:24:10 <andythenorth> looks like real programming 11:24:13 <andythenorth> Iâm not smart enough 11:25:38 <andythenorth> also newgrfs 11:25:38 *** MagisterQuis [~Adium@71.206.53.147] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:25:49 <Pikka> what of newgrfs? 11:25:54 *** MagisterQuis [~Adium@71.206.53.147] has joined #openttd 11:26:07 <andythenorth> making 11:26:34 <andythenorth> GS and newgrf canât both be making 11:26:51 <andythenorth> 12 degrees C here 11:26:53 <andythenorth> must be summer 11:27:06 <Pikka> must be 11:28:04 * andythenorth considers a GS 11:28:05 <planetmaker> https://rhodecode.openttdcoop.org/pm-openttd/changeset/e8f54f5611363d6e0256f61a7a231e5829ab215f and https://rhodecode.openttdcoop.org/pm-openttd/changeset/78587412e6a7b94beb59c6078655fc39ae79681a might do the trick for caching of the GetClosestWaterDistance values 11:28:17 <andythenorth> simple GS 11:28:31 <andythenorth> after random number of years, it puts up message: âYou won!â 11:28:33 <planetmaker> first player to build a HQ wins? 11:28:51 <andythenorth> maybe also âYou lost!â 11:28:54 <andythenorth> as option 11:29:00 <planetmaker> might actually not be a bad idea, andythenorth :) 11:29:03 <andythenorth> then game is over 11:29:11 <planetmaker> For players who need an ending, that's great :) 11:29:17 <andythenorth> play until youâre dead 11:29:22 <andythenorth> bit too realistic 11:29:41 <planetmaker> after 5 million years we'd not only be dead, but long de-composed 11:29:52 <Pikka> can't be having realism 11:29:57 <planetmaker> unless you prepare your dead such that you'll be fossilised 11:30:06 <planetmaker> Like finding a good swampy marshland or so 11:34:11 * LordAro attempts to rebase http://www.icosahedron.de/openttd/git/newmap.git/commitdiff/7e616d2388acaaa475b736fa476685d556c82eb5 against http://vcs.openttd.org/git?p=openttd/trunk.git;a=commitdiff;h=0566a6cfdaa3a4b1e28676b076e2f833bd39bd8f;hp=94d326dc7dcc3f5d8850f32a1e02b93fb233b710 11:46:37 *** strohalm [~smoofi@80.84.209.151] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:47:00 *** strohalm [~smoofi@80.84.209.151] has joined #openttd 11:55:53 *** Superuser [~superuser@cpc11-lewi15-2-0-cust98.2-4.cable.virginm.net] has joined #openttd 12:02:44 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc10-aztw26-2-0-cust867.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 12:09:13 *** Superuser [~superuser@cpc11-lewi15-2-0-cust98.2-4.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Quit: Hi, I'm a quit message virus. Please replace your old line with this line and help me take over the world of IRC.] 12:49:49 <Pikka> first player to build a HQ wins... hmmm... :) 12:55:49 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc10-aztw26-2-0-cust867.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has joined #openttd 12:57:44 *** Natio [~Natio@x1-6-e0-46-9a-98-35-7a.cpe.webspeed.dk] has joined #openttd 12:59:12 <andythenorth> âAnd I would argue that a NewGRF falls under an artistic and entertainment work, and not software or documentation. â 12:59:14 <andythenorth> FFS 12:59:21 <andythenorth> thatâs just stupid 12:59:35 <Pikka> all license arguments are stupid 13:00:03 <andythenorth> well yes 13:00:45 <andythenorth> anyway 13:00:47 <andythenorth> maybe heâs right 13:01:22 <andythenorth> planetmaker: strictly newgrfs arenât an interactive program, and they donât display the GPL notification at startup 13:01:26 <andythenorth> so we should stop using GPL 13:01:36 * Pikka stopped using GPL 13:02:01 <andythenorth> well done Pikka :D 13:02:08 *** pthagnar [~pthagnar@cpc7-pres17-2-0-cust28.18-3.cable.virginm.net] has joined #openttd 13:02:17 <andythenorth> is there food here? 13:02:32 *** Progman [~progman@p57A18B56.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:02:35 <Pikka> only coffee 13:02:44 <andythenorth> yes 13:02:51 * andythenorth found rice 13:02:51 <Pikka> I think you should keep using GPL 13:02:53 <Pikka> or 13:03:06 <Pikka> whatever 13:03:45 <Pikka> no-one's going to court over newgrfs. being a good member of the community and being intellectually honest are higher priorities than legalismisms 13:04:20 <andythenorth> the problem comes when we get takedown notices 13:04:27 <andythenorth> and other crap 13:05:04 <Pikka> what licence people use for their newgrfs isn't going to change that though 13:05:08 <andythenorth> also I wanted to switch to http://www.wtfpl.net 13:08:30 <Pikka> the real "problem" is that the plebs all want to reuse one another's sprites, and so that tricksy little viral GPL gets passed around. 13:08:31 <andythenorth> might do that :P 13:08:44 <andythenorth> I like that problem fwiw 13:08:49 <andythenorth> means I can take stuff from anything 13:09:01 <andythenorth> whereas all this âbased on respectâ etc shit is meaningless 13:09:09 <Pikka> yes 13:09:11 *** oskari89 [oskari89@83-102-63-32.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit [] 13:09:17 <Pikka> but so is the GPL if no-one's going to sue 13:09:25 <andythenorth> yeah, but then I just ignore them 13:09:33 <andythenorth> and they canât start sending takedowns to our ISPs 13:10:03 <Pikka> but they can 13:10:10 <andythenorth> well yes 13:10:20 <andythenorth> anyway, itâs all a bit la la la eh 13:10:26 <Pikka> zacly 13:11:24 *** MagisterQuis [~Adium@71.206.53.147] has left #openttd [] 13:11:30 <andythenorth> mostly this is not licenses, mostly âsomeone is wrong on the internets' 13:11:38 <andythenorth> bad andythenorth 13:12:16 <andythenorth> is there food here? only eating coffee causes shakes 13:12:30 <Pikka> I had a banana but I ated it 13:13:10 <andythenorth> shame 13:13:11 * rubidium still got a "the laughing cow" 13:13:16 <andythenorth> you could have sent it to me 13:13:20 <andythenorth> mmm 13:13:23 <andythenorth> laughing cow 13:13:33 <andythenorth> no proper cheese in France 13:13:36 <Pikka> I have a bit of bert in the fridge 13:13:51 * andythenorth considering starting a business, importing real cheese to France 13:14:03 <rubidium> what is real cheese? 13:14:11 <rubidium> "real American imitation cheese"? 13:14:31 <peter1139> 14:01 < andythenorth> planetmaker: strictly newgrfs arenât an interactive program, and they donât display the GPL notification at startup 13:14:43 <peter1139> Pretty much no GPL software does display a notification, heh. 13:15:20 <andythenorth> rubidium: cheddar 13:15:34 <andythenorth> the majority of proper cheese is cheddar 13:15:40 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@s55978e11.adsl.online.nl] has quit [Quit: leaving] 13:15:46 <andythenorth> there are others, but they are much less significant 13:16:14 <andythenorth> ha ha 13:16:16 <andythenorth> âIf I donât actually do what the fuck I want am I in violation of the terms of the license?â 13:16:19 <andythenorth> from the FAQs 13:19:09 <andythenorth> it is a very funny page 13:19:44 <andythenorth> only andythenorth would find a licensing FAQ funny :( 13:22:00 <planetmaker> peter1139, also NewGRFs (can) display the license info ingame where it's nicely user visible 13:22:30 *** dfox [~dfox@94.142.237.120] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 13:33:07 <andythenorth> V453000 is a bit quiet 13:33:10 <andythenorth> is he here? 13:33:27 <V453000> no 13:33:37 <frosch123> if in doubt, he is drunk 13:33:38 <planetmaker> oh there 13:33:47 <planetmaker> in the beer barrel :P 13:34:23 <V453000> rendering a fucking stone 13:34:44 <planetmaker> you didn't start with it? 13:34:56 <V453000> with what? :D 13:35:02 <planetmaker> rendering? 13:35:31 <V453000> wat 13:35:40 <andythenorth> V453000: so farms = slave labour? 13:35:47 <V453000> yes 13:35:52 <planetmaker> I'm asking you, what you render, V453000 ;) 13:36:07 <V453000> oh, beginnings of yeti stone mine planetmaker :P 13:36:17 <andythenorth> V453000: I kind of agree, I was hoping cdist would solve it :P 13:36:39 <planetmaker> he, nice :) 13:36:45 <V453000> we have cdist - firs game on our prozone server atm, cdist isnt helpful. 13:37:19 <andythenorth> worse than helpful 13:37:22 <andythenorth> the opposite 13:37:32 <V453000> :) 13:37:53 <andythenorth> also you hate supplies generally? 13:38:04 <V453000> no! 13:38:12 <andythenorth> just farms 13:38:23 <V453000> supplies are great but every industry needs to be able to contribute to supply produciton 13:38:43 <V453000> farms are the problem in their number, you just have to build X times more in order to get the same (or less) than other industries 13:39:05 <andythenorth> I have serously considered âfarmsâ = a single industry instance 13:39:09 <andythenorth> instead of a cluster of 10 or so 13:39:18 <andythenorth> worked in railroad tycoon 13:39:26 <V453000> the clustering is just weird 13:39:30 <andythenorth> much higher production, single drop off 13:39:54 <andythenorth> weird in which ways? 13:41:10 <V453000> In general for all industries: in multiplayer everybody needs everything to have firs work nicely. Having a cluster of an important industry only somewhere is only for the player who found it first. For farms: slave labour :) 13:41:31 <V453000> if everything was spread over the whole map individually, it would get a lot more playable 13:41:51 <planetmaker> I don't think that's true for FIRS farms 13:41:52 <andythenorth> hmm 13:42:00 <planetmaker> them clustering is one of the selling points for me 13:42:17 <andythenorth> ^ main reason I never changed it 13:42:24 <V453000> what I could see as a working option would be: 1. have e.g. FARMING / MINING area and 2. let ANY primary produce its own supplies 13:42:32 <planetmaker> FIRS generally might not be ideal for small to intermediate maps with multiplayer 13:42:39 <andythenorth> +1 13:43:02 <V453000> what would that mean is, some players would not get to all industry types, but it would not hurt them 13:43:08 <andythenorth> V453000: point 2 means what? 13:43:10 <V453000> which hurts the system of firs majorly, too 13:43:23 <V453000> point 2 means e.g. farms must be able to create farm supplies in all economies 13:43:29 <andythenorth> ok 13:43:47 <andythenorth> that was always ruled out, due to closed feedback loops 13:43:47 <V453000> which isnt a problem only in the case of "each player gets something" but also in general 13:43:58 <andythenorth> but Heart of Darkness does itâŠ.sky didnât fall 13:44:23 <V453000> in that case oil/iron ore/coal/... should not be able to create ES 13:44:29 <V453000> which I would agree with 13:45:00 <andythenorth> V453000: consider realism :P 13:45:05 <V453000> ... 13:45:08 <andythenorth> RL farms definitely donât feed grain to cows 13:45:18 <andythenorth> or use cowshit for growing crops... 13:45:28 <V453000> see 13:49:31 <andythenorth> original design had a farm supply depot 13:50:54 *** Progman [~progman@p57A18B56.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 13:51:40 <andythenorth> V453000: you canât just ignore the farms? o_O 13:51:49 <V453000> exactly 13:51:51 <V453000> you totally can 13:51:58 <V453000> and you have no reason at all not to do so 13:52:01 <V453000> which imo is wrong 13:52:12 <V453000> the player should have some motivation to use everything 13:53:08 <planetmaker> <andythenorth> or use cowshit for growing crops... <-- they definitely do that 13:53:21 <planetmaker> heck, it's even recommended practise 13:53:59 <V453000> yes, I think that would solve the farm self-insufficience 13:54:16 <andythenorth> there is room to add an industry 13:54:27 <andythenorth> grain, livestock -> FMSP 13:54:38 <andythenorth> maybe fruit? 13:54:44 <andythenorth> not milk :P 13:54:46 <andythenorth> or wool :P 13:55:48 *** Dan9550 [~dan9550@173.393.dsl.mel.iprimus.net.au] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:58:15 <V453000> can farms produce livestock poo as a new cargo? 13:58:58 <andythenorth> no slots 13:59:05 <V453000> :D 13:59:48 <V453000> well how about letting towns grow only if you give them food, and grabbing FMSP from a supply depot near towns, town grows = moar FMSP 13:59:50 <V453000> human shit? 14:00:01 <V453000> sounds a lot like yeti though :P 14:00:37 <V453000> perhaps grain farms could feed animal farms, and animal farms could poo on grain farms 14:00:55 <V453000> that would actually be nice 14:01:24 <V453000> or even demolish FMSP as a whole and let ES go to farms too 14:01:29 <V453000> machinery, tractors, ... 14:01:47 <andythenorth> just âsupplies' 14:01:57 <V453000> yea 14:02:36 <V453000> it doesnt help the fact that farms couldnt make supplies tho 14:04:42 *** gelignite [~gelignite@i528C3DC3.versanet.de] has quit [Quit: http://bit.ly/nkczDT] 14:06:04 <andythenorth> that was by design originally 14:06:08 <andythenorth> doesnât make it right 14:06:20 <andythenorth> but the idea was you had to connect up the whole economy to get food to grow towns 14:06:35 <andythenorth> although growing towns is the most boring goal ever never 14:13:02 <pthagnar> coca farms 14:13:21 <pthagnar> the products of which cause towns to shrink 14:13:29 <planetmaker> shrink? Grow! 14:13:53 <planetmaker> citizens are angry / indifferent / happy / hippi ;) 14:15:17 <andythenorth> hmm 14:15:30 <andythenorth> ships can auto-refit pax <-> other cargos 14:15:38 <andythenorth> wtf have I done wrong here :| 14:15:48 <andythenorth> my trains just wonât do it 14:25:14 <andythenorth> Pikka: got any trains that auto-refit pax <-> other ? 14:25:33 <Pikka> I do not 14:25:42 <Pikka> but I see no reason why it shouldn't work 14:25:48 <andythenorth> me neither 14:25:56 <andythenorth> works for ships 14:26:02 <andythenorth> canât see anything wrong in my code 14:26:15 <Pikka> unless your fabulous 3-part-vehicles don't play well with autorefitting... 14:26:20 <andythenorth> fabulouso 14:26:34 <andythenorth> I shall abuse them 14:28:54 *** KritiK [~Maxim@0001264a.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 14:29:20 <andythenorth> dunno what I could do that would only affect PAX 14:34:18 <andythenorth> seems not due to fancy 3 part vehicles 14:51:38 <Pikka> dunno then 14:52:19 <Pikka> I blame peter1139 14:52:35 <LordAro> who doesn't? 14:59:35 <peter1139> What? 15:01:02 *** kais58__2 [~kais58@cpc3-cwma7-2-0-cust221.7-3.cable.virginm.net] has joined #openttd 15:02:44 *** kais58__1 [~kais58@cpc3-cwma7-2-0-cust221.7-3.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:12:55 *** Hazzard [~quassel@c-67-174-253-44.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #openttd 15:19:22 *** kais58__2 [~kais58@cpc3-cwma7-2-0-cust221.7-3.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:26:46 *** Pol [~quassel@h220216.upc-h.chello.nl] has joined #openttd 15:33:01 *** ABCRic [~ABCRic@a79-168-244-115.cpe.netcabo.pt] has joined #openttd 15:33:49 *** Pensacola [~quassel@h220216.upc-h.chello.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:13:49 <andythenorth> spose I could try reading ottd src 16:19:54 <andythenorth> why would PAX even have a special case in src? 16:20:36 <planetmaker> road stops 16:20:43 <planetmaker> town growth 16:20:56 <andythenorth> for rail stations though? 16:21:05 <planetmaker> no :) 16:21:09 <andythenorth> unless itâs an unintended consequence of something else :P 16:21:26 <andythenorth> I kind of want it to be my grf, but I canât find anything wrong 16:27:23 <andythenorth> this is the nml for the vehicle http://paste.openttdcoop.org/show/3225/ 16:27:26 *** Snail [~jacopocol@cpe-66-108-182-178.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #openttd 16:27:39 <andythenorth> someone find the code where I unintentionally blocked PAX auto-refit? 16:27:56 <andythenorth> only thing I can think of is that it doesnât find a capacity for PAX during the refit 16:28:48 <andythenorth> and thatâs just a bad guess going nowhere :P 16:30:36 <planetmaker> is pax default cargo? 16:31:56 <planetmaker> where does that vehicle have any capacity at all, andythenorth ? 16:36:24 <andythenorth> tin_rocket_1_switch_cargo_capacity_by_cargo_0 16:36:28 <andythenorth> and similar 16:40:35 *** Snail [~jacopocol@cpe-66-108-182-178.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Snail] 16:44:23 *** namad7 [~aaaaa@pool-74-111-111-176.pitbpa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:45:54 *** pthagnar [~pthagnar@cpc7-pres17-2-0-cust28.18-3.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:50:31 *** Pol [~quassel@h220216.upc-h.chello.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:53:15 *** Natio [~Natio@x1-6-e0-46-9a-98-35-7a.cpe.webspeed.dk] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:57:57 <andythenorth> been looking for auto-refit code in src 16:57:59 <andythenorth> bit lost 17:00:45 <andythenorth> wonder if thereâs something that prevents going across classes 17:07:37 *** Aristide [~quassel@81.253.6.84] has joined #openttd 17:11:21 *** lofejndif [~lsqavnbok@rainbowwarrior.torservers.net] has joined #openttd 17:16:29 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc10-aztw26-2-0-cust867.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 17:19:40 *** namad7 [~aaaaa@pool-74-111-111-176.pitbpa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #openttd 17:31:04 *** Aristide [~quassel@81.253.6.84] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:45:40 <DorpsGek> Commit by translators :: r26462 /trunk/src/lang (5 files) (2014-04-13 17:45:28 UTC) 17:45:41 <DorpsGek> -Update from WebTranslator v3.0: 17:45:42 <DorpsGek> german - 3 changes by planetmaker 17:45:43 <DorpsGek> hungarian - 5 changes by Brumi 17:45:44 <DorpsGek> italian - 3 changes by lorenzodv 17:45:45 <DorpsGek> turkish - 4 changes by wakeup 17:45:46 <DorpsGek> welsh - 6 changes by kazzie 17:46:44 *** strohalm [~smoofi@80.84.209.151] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:47:06 *** strohalm [~smoofi@80.84.209.151] has joined #openttd 17:54:52 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc10-aztw26-2-0-cust867.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has joined #openttd 18:07:22 *** Aristide [~quassel@81.253.60.140] has joined #openttd 18:17:48 *** oskari89 [oskari89@83-102-63-32.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined #openttd 18:25:14 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc10-aztw26-2-0-cust867.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 18:27:45 *** Progman [~progman@p57A18B56.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:27:47 *** Myhorta [~Myhorta@00018fad.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 18:31:55 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc10-aztw26-2-0-cust867.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has joined #openttd 18:35:13 *** lofejndif [~lsqavnbok@82JAADVJQ.tor-irc.dnsbl.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: gone] 18:44:41 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc10-aztw26-2-0-cust867.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 18:47:00 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc10-aztw26-2-0-cust867.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has joined #openttd 18:49:26 *** Alberth [~hat@2001:981:c6c5:1:be5f:f4ff:feac:e11] has left #openttd [] 18:51:47 *** Supercheese [~Superchee@76.178.136.186] has joined #openttd 18:52:23 *** Pikka [~Octomom@d110-32-11-122.rdl800.qld.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:53:42 *** gelignite [~gelignite@i528C3DC3.versanet.de] has joined #openttd 18:59:34 *** Myhorta [~Myhorta@00018fad.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:02:20 *** avdg_ [~oftc-webi@78-21-58-76.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd 19:03:09 * andythenorth might play a game 19:05:47 *** glx [~glx@000128ec.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 19:05:50 *** mode/#openttd [+v glx] by ChanServ 19:08:57 *** Aristide [~quassel@81.253.60.140] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:09:01 <Supercheese> take care, the only winning move is not to play 19:09:07 <Supercheese> ;) 19:11:43 *** Aristide [~quassel@81.253.60.140] has joined #openttd 19:19:29 *** Progman [~progman@p57A18B56.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 19:22:29 <DorpsGek> Commit by peter1138 :: r26463 /trunk/src (10 files in 2 dirs) (2014-04-13 19:22:23 UTC) 19:22:30 <DorpsGek> -Fix (r10190ish): Add special handling for PALETTE_CRASH to work for non-8bpp-mapped sprites. 19:46:52 *** Djohaal [~Djohaal@186.212.210.167] has joined #openttd 19:55:15 *** oskari89 [oskari89@83-102-63-32.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit [] 19:55:24 *** gelignite [~gelignite@i528C3DC3.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:57:09 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@s55978e11.adsl.online.nl] has joined #openttd 20:05:27 *** gelignite [~gelignite@i5387AB4D.versanet.de] has joined #openttd 20:09:18 *** Bob_ [~oftc-webi@host-69-146-33-215.lar-wy.client.bresnan.net] has joined #openttd 20:09:24 <Bob_> hi 20:18:35 <andythenorth> NCG or SV? 20:19:00 <planetmaker> for what, andythenorth ? 20:19:01 <planetmaker> hi Bob_ 20:19:06 <andythenorth> playing a game 20:19:50 <planetmaker> difficult choice 20:20:07 *** talebowl [~delltvgat@ip-83-134-116-91.dsl.scarlet.be] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 20:21:04 *** Myhorta [~Myhorta@00018fad.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 20:21:23 <andythenorth> SV I think 20:21:36 <andythenorth> more depth 20:21:49 <planetmaker> :) 20:23:55 <Bob_> how's it going guys? 20:24:23 <andythenorth> setting up a game 20:24:30 <andythenorth> takes about 10 mins :P 20:39:58 <Eddi|zuHause> <andythenorth> planetmaker: strictly newgrfs arenât an interactive program, and they donât display the GPL notification at startup <-- neither programs need to be "interactive" nor is a requirement for GPL to show at startup. 20:40:52 *** NucWin [~NucWin@cpc65010-wiga13-2-0-cust260.18-3.cable.virginm.net] has joined #openttd 20:41:22 <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: read licence paragraph 2c 20:42:18 <andythenorth> nah heâs right 20:42:26 <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: starts with a giant "IF" 20:42:39 <NucWin> what is the bare minimum deps for a dedicated server? ubuntu wants to install mesa, pulse and lots of other packages i surely dont need 20:42:45 <frosch123> well, the parantheses at the end are important 20:42:54 <frosch123> if the program does, you have to keep it that way 20:43:24 <frosch123> NucWin: if you compile yourself, do "./configure --enable-dedicated" 20:43:30 <frosch123> that should remove the need for most X libs 20:43:53 <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: but again, NewGRF is not interactive in the first place, so the whole section doesn't apply 20:44:11 <NucWin> so compiling myself will be the best route for dedicated? 20:44:28 <andythenorth> do stations have PBS signals in or not? 20:44:31 <andythenorth> I never figured out it 20:44:36 <frosch123> it is unlikely that you find a dedicated-only package for ubuntu 20:44:43 <valhallasw> andythenorth: no, just out 20:44:48 <NucWin> thanks 20:44:51 <Eddi|zuHause> NucWin: we don't offer precompiled dedicated servers, because there is not enough demand 20:44:56 <valhallasw> andythenorth: PBS signals should be at a place where the train can stop 20:44:59 <frosch123> i guess only gentoo may have such a use flag 20:45:33 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: no, stations don't have builtin signals 20:45:42 <valhallasw> oh, 'in' like that 20:45:51 <andythenorth> but a train wonât forward reserve past a platform where it is stopping? 20:45:52 <NucWin> only get 10GB of space on my vps so dont want to go package crazy, i will build locally and upload :) 20:45:57 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: just trains that reverse check for a free path without a signal 20:46:01 <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: but, wouldn't it be appropiate for newgrf to print "absolutely no warranty"? 20:46:15 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: it will reserve beyond the platform to the next signal 20:46:23 <andythenorth> trying to figure out if my metro stations need signals in front of them or not :P 20:46:31 <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: print to where? 20:46:40 <frosch123> on all sprites 20:46:51 <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: do the sprites read interactive commands? 20:46:53 <frosch123> in the vehicle details 20:47:03 <frosch123> no warranty of any purpose for this vehicle 20:47:07 <andythenorth> +1 20:47:16 <andythenorth> can we have a blink character code? 20:47:26 <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: nuts includes text in some sprites 20:47:48 <frosch123> andythenorth: only in ttdp 20:47:55 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: just use an animated text colour? :p 20:48:01 <andythenorth> good point 20:48:08 <frosch123> ottd no longer uses text colour definitions from the baseset 20:48:12 <andythenorth> fire cycle 20:52:14 *** Aristide [~quassel@81.253.60.140] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:52:18 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~flex@i59F6BF6F.versanet.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 20:52:39 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~flex@i59F6BF6F.versanet.de] has joined #openttd 20:56:08 <planetmaker> 10GB is sufficient, if you don't do anything out of the ordinary. zlib, liblzma, lzo2, icu, dunno about fontconfig for servers 20:56:33 *** retro|cz [~retro@ip-89-176-82-80.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #openttd 20:56:47 *** FLHerne [~FLHerne@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has joined #openttd 20:56:49 <planetmaker> NucWin, unless you have the same system on the VCS as on your compile machine, it's going to be fun :) 20:56:55 <frosch123> what do you want icu for? 20:57:29 <planetmaker> fancy text :P 20:57:32 <rubidium> even lzo2 isn't really needed for servers 20:57:50 <NucWin> both are ubuntu 12.04 x64 20:58:27 <planetmaker> aye, ok. I still find it always easier to compile on server :) 20:58:41 <rubidium> on the other hand, lzma requires pkg-config which might pull in quite a bit of gnome stuff 20:59:04 *** FLHerne [~FLHerne@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has quit [] 20:59:08 *** FLHerne [~FLHerne@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has joined #openttd 20:59:42 <peter1139> bah @ powercut 21:00:14 <planetmaker> https://packages.debian.org/de/wheezy/pkg-config seems small, rubidium 21:00:57 <rubidium> and all it's dependencies? 21:01:15 <planetmaker> don't I understand the list that way? 21:01:16 <__ln__> its 21:01:50 <rubidium> you mean the architecture list with sizes? That's only for the package itself 21:01:53 <planetmaker> it lists with a red dot the deps 21:02:40 <NucWin> dont think i have build stuff on my vps 21:02:40 *** FLHerne [~FLHerne@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has quit [] 21:02:42 <rubidium> yeah, which lists glib 21:02:44 *** FLHerne [~FLHerne@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has joined #openttd 21:02:53 <NucWin> if it fails this way i will just have to install it 21:03:07 <__ln__> glib is not exactly "quite a bit of gnome stuff" 21:03:40 <frosch123> gnu/gnome/gimp :p 21:03:50 <rubidium> and glib is more or less the root library of GTK/GNOME/... 21:04:17 <rubidium> a lovely 4 MB big library with a 8 MB data appendix 21:05:02 <andythenorth> maybe I should stop station walking and build some trams 21:05:06 <__ln__> it is, but it is a requirement for a lot of other software as well (including a lot of non-gui software), so i'm wondering if anyone has a system without glib installed already. 21:06:45 <__ln__> for example, irssi depends on glib. 21:07:37 <rubidium> seems like the gnome pulling capability of pkg-config is quite limited 21:08:39 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~flex@i59F6BF6F.versanet.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:08:46 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~flex@i59F6BF6F.versanet.de] has joined #openttd 21:09:03 <planetmaker> good night 21:10:48 <peter1139> glib is almost a standard library now 21:21:51 <andythenorth> building these metros is faff 21:22:34 <Supercheese> So many strings to translate 21:25:52 <frosch123> night 21:25:56 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-4d009d27.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: be yourself, except: if you have the opportunity to be a unicorn, then be a unicorn] 21:25:57 <andythenorth> signals in tunnels anyone? :P 21:26:26 <FLHerne> andythenorth: And on bridges, and on underground railways 21:26:26 <Supercheese> cirdan's NMF has that 21:26:35 <Supercheese> https://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=58420 21:26:55 <Supercheese> and much more 21:27:17 <Supercheese> no signals on bridges yet it seems 21:28:05 <FLHerne> And on station tiles (including the diagonal ones). Obviously they have to be restrictive and programmable and speed-limiting and act as waypoints too 21:38:47 *** Pereba [~UserNick@187.59.110.227] has joined #openttd 21:39:12 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@s55978e11.adsl.online.nl] has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:41:21 *** michi_cc [michi@00012723.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: Und weg...] 21:41:36 *** michi_cc [michi@00012723.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 21:41:39 *** mode/#openttd [+v michi_cc] by ChanServ 21:41:46 <andythenorth> how do I fix a train that has no power? 21:41:50 <andythenorth> canât convert the railtype 21:42:34 <andythenorth> crash another train into it? 21:42:53 *** Aristide [~quassel@tok69-5-82-235-150-75.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #openttd 21:42:59 <glx> don't change newgrf in a running game ;) 21:43:24 <andythenorth> I didnât 21:43:31 <andythenorth> some track got flooded 21:43:44 <andythenorth> but that should have nothing to do with railtype 21:44:45 <andythenorth> appears to be no solution :o 21:45:38 <andythenorth> well thatâs fucked my game :) 21:45:55 <Supercheese> why can't you convert? 21:46:05 <andythenorth> just can't 21:46:12 <Supercheese> well fix that 21:46:13 <andythenorth> train on it 21:46:26 <andythenorth> canât convert with a train on it... 21:46:27 <Supercheese> oh, can't convert while the train's there eh 21:46:29 <Supercheese> lame 21:46:30 <andythenorth> yeah 21:46:36 <andythenorth> so how did the train get there? o_O 21:46:37 <Supercheese> patch that sh*t out 21:46:40 <glx> how train can be on a track where it has no power ? 21:46:46 <Supercheese> :O 21:47:02 <andythenorth> glx: is a good question eh? 21:47:36 <glx> that's why my first reaction was newgrf change 21:47:43 <FLHerne> Can't you just leave it stranded there? 21:48:00 <andythenorth> FLHerne: this is definitely the best way to fix bugs, yes 21:48:37 <Supercheese> Crash another train into it 21:48:41 <Supercheese> that'll remove it 21:48:43 <Supercheese> :D 21:48:46 <andythenorth> can't 21:48:49 <Supercheese> awww 21:48:51 <FLHerne> It's a feature, clearly. Discourages allowing your railway to flood by increasing the hassle :P 21:48:52 <andythenorth> incompatible railtype 21:49:15 <Supercheese> well, flood the train then 21:49:16 <glx> hmm so the flooding modified railtype ? 21:49:21 <andythenorth> not sure 21:49:27 <Supercheese> doesn't flooding destroy the train? 21:49:30 <FLHerne> Are there no trains that %will% run on that railtype, then? 21:49:32 <andythenorth> it destroyed one train 21:49:47 <Supercheese> but not the other? O_o 21:49:54 <glx> what does say landscape info ? 21:50:22 <andythenorth> says itâs standard railway track 21:50:25 <andythenorth> not metro track 21:50:37 <andythenorth> Iâve managed to connect more track and crash the train 21:51:08 <Supercheese> huzzah 21:51:28 <andythenorth> interesting issue 21:51:37 <glx> maybe you can try to reproduce it :) 21:51:57 <andythenorth> ugh 21:54:22 <Supercheese> Bug husbandry is a tough profession. Sometimes those issues just don't want to reproduce, despite all attempts at breeding 21:56:45 <Eddi|zuHause> i always wondered what this word "husbandry" actually means 21:57:28 <Supercheese> to wiktionary 21:57:44 <Supercheese> huh, no etymology 22:01:15 <Eddi|zuHause> well, for starters: which language is it derived from 22:01:27 <__ln__> to OED -> etymology: HUSBAND n. + -RY suffix. 22:01:49 <Eddi|zuHause> __ln__: recurse 22:01:55 <__ln__> husband, n.: THe master of a house, the male head of a house. Obs. 22:02:43 <__ln__> Etymology: Late Old English húsbonda , -bunda , < hús house + late Old English ? bónda , bonda , bunda , < Old Norse bóndi , peasant owning his own house and land, freeholder, franklin, yeoman; earlier búandi , bóandi , originally present participle of búa , bóa to dwell, have a household; but the Old English use answered immediately to Old Norse húsbóndi , a man of this rank in his capacity as head or master of the household 22:03:50 <Eddi|zuHause> so, nordic 22:04:31 <Supercheese> http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?search=husbandry 22:05:02 <Supercheese> and yeah Norse 22:12:08 *** dfox [~dfox@94.142.237.120] has joined #openttd 22:14:38 <andythenorth> bye 22:14:38 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc10-aztw26-2-0-cust867.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 22:24:27 *** Snail [~jacopocol@cpe-66-108-182-178.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #openttd 22:25:09 *** Devroush [~dennis@dD5765BAC.access.telenet.be] has quit [] 22:34:27 *** Progman [~progman@p57A18B56.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:35:43 *** avdg_ [~oftc-webi@78-21-58-76.access.telenet.be] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:58:11 *** sla_ro|master [slamaster@95.76.164.39] has quit [] 23:04:25 *** gelignite [~gelignite@i5387AB4D.versanet.de] has quit [Quit: http://bit.ly/nkczDT] 23:20:40 <Wolf01> 'night 23:20:44 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@0001288e.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.] 23:21:39 *** yorick [~yorick@ip51cd0513.speed.planet.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:45:34 *** FrenkyPohodar [~oftc-webi@ip-94-112-184-63.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #openttd 23:48:00 <FrenkyPohodar> Good day to you. 23:54:09 <FLHerne> FrenkyPohodar: Good (very early) morning :-) 23:55:50 <FrenkyPohodar> In the Czech Republic, two in the morning :)