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00:05:07 *** sim-al2 is now known as Guest586 00:05:08 *** sim-al2 [~sim-al2@108-221-158-76.lightspeed.mmphtn.sbcglobal.net] has joined #openttd 00:10:06 *** Guest586 [~sim-al2@108-221-158-76.lightspeed.mmphtn.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 00:13:03 *** drac_boy [~oftc-webi@modemcable027.125-163-184.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #openttd 00:13:06 <drac_boy> hi 00:13:16 <drac_boy> been quite a while heh....anyone up to anything interesting grf-wise? :) 00:33:01 *** gelignite [~gelignite@x4db5a5e9.dyn.telefonica.de] has quit [Quit: http://bit.ly/1kso8Ta] 00:35:51 *** smoke_fumus [~smoke_fum@188.35.176.90] has joined #openttd 00:37:59 <drac_boy> hi smoke 00:38:23 *** mntasauri [~motesorri@192.73.232.107] has joined #openttd 00:41:19 *** Biolunar [Biolunar@x4d025b1f.dyn.telefonica.de] has joined #openttd 01:03:50 <drac_boy> mm going upstairs for now...perhaps tomorrow 01:03:53 *** drac_boy [~oftc-webi@modemcable027.125-163-184.mc.videotron.ca] has left #openttd [] 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[slamaster@89.136.141.100] has joined #openttd 07:30:09 *** HerzogDeXtEr1 [~farci@i59F6BE3E.versanet.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:36:10 *** Alberth [~alberth@2001:981:c6c5:1:be5f:f4ff:feac:e11] has joined #openttd 07:36:13 *** mode/#openttd [+o Alberth] by ChanServ 07:52:55 *** Supercheese [~Superchee@cpe-76-178-136-186.natnow.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Valete omnes] 08:26:17 *** day [~day@101.165.99.116] has quit [Quit: off to save the cats] 08:59:17 *** Progman [~progman@p57A19024.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 09:03:07 *** oskari89 [oskari89@83-102-63-32.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined #openttd 09:34:06 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@0001288e.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 09:35:17 <Wolf01> o/ 09:42:08 *** Wolf03 [~wolf01@95.232.234.56] has joined #openttd 09:42:09 *** Wolf01 is now known as Guest642 09:42:09 *** Wolf03 is now known as Wolf01 09:48:07 *** Guest642 [~wolf01@0001288e.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 09:48:10 <Wolf01> bah... the Venice-Mestre tram now derails on curved tracks... I'm still of the opinion that a trolleybus was really better for the roads we have here :| 09:57:53 <Alberth> o/ 10:05:05 *** Mucht [~Martin@000128e2.user.oftc.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:44:32 *** Wormnest [~Wormnest@s5596abd2.adsl.online.nl] has joined #openttd 10:55:07 *** Rejf [rejf@nintendos.pl] has quit [Quit: leaving] 10:55:19 *** Rejf [rejf@nintendos.pl] has joined #openttd 11:29:26 *** [dpk] [~dpk@xn--ht-1ia18f.nonceword.org] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:31:17 *** [dpk] [~dpk@xn--ht-1ia18f.nonceword.org] has joined #openttd 11:32:30 *** gelignite [~gelignite@f048016229.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #openttd 11:37:52 *** FLHerne [~flh@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has joined #openttd 11:55:03 *** LadyHawk- [~LadyHawk@5751e87a.skybroadband.com] has joined #openttd 12:00:50 *** SpBot [spbot@109.204.237.153] has joined #openttd 12:01:00 *** Guest9512 [spbot@109.204.237.153] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:01:24 *** You're now known as Guest659 12:04:59 *** day [~day@101.165.99.116] has joined #openttd 12:06:16 <andythenorth> o/ 12:07:56 *** LadyHawk [~LadyHawk@5751e87a.skybroadband.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 12:07:59 *** LadyHawk- is now known as LadyHawk 12:17:27 <andythenorth> cat plays monopoly? 12:17:38 *** iostat [~iostat@p2003006A6C5EDD00157C8C1820A6E561.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 12:19:08 <Wolf01> no, but it play risk for sure 12:21:05 <Wolf01> ah, andy, yesterday I purchased again the 42009 and 42030 :> 12:22:40 <V453000> cat shits brix 12:22:51 <V453000> machine gun mode atm 12:22:57 <V453000> many brix 12:28:34 <Alberth> /me orders extra containers to catch all brix 12:35:08 <andythenorth> Wolf01: 42009 really? o_O 12:35:12 <andythenorth> for parts or to build? 12:35:18 <Wolf01> yeah 12:35:21 <andythenorth> both? 12:35:23 <argoneus> have you guys ever used a shared_ptr? 12:35:35 <Wolf01> both 12:35:52 <andythenorth> I didnât build the crane from 42009 12:36:03 <andythenorth> my kids wanted the B model 12:37:15 <Wolf01> I want to build the b model first, then I'll use them to build a backhoe loader 12:37:29 <andythenorth> the B model is quite good, there is nothing else in technic like it 12:37:42 <andythenorth> but mine shredded a gear inside the boom 12:37:46 <andythenorth> and I cba to fix it 12:38:42 <Wolf01> I think the volvo loader is a bit too big, so I'll order both the front and rear pieces from bricklink 12:38:53 *** Hydros [Hydros@188-230-140-226.dynamic.t-2.net] has joined #openttd 12:40:04 <Alberth> argoneus: yep 12:41:28 <argoneus> Alberth: I can't find a usecase 12:41:48 <Alberth> that's good 12:42:02 <andythenorth> Wolf01: as backoes goe, this one is surprisingly good http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/81wKTvNOqQL._SL1500_.jpg 12:42:15 <andythenorth> mostly because itâs really simple, and perfomative 12:42:25 <Alberth> shared pointers are a bit meh, and should be avoided if possible 12:42:47 <Wolf01> yeah, too bad I missed that one :( 12:43:01 <Alberth> basically if yo need them, you have an ownership problem with your objects 12:43:12 <Alberth> *you 12:43:22 <V453000> fuck we are back at lego again 12:43:26 <andythenorth> Wolf01: itâs an easy build from parts :) 12:43:43 <andythenorth> V453000: between that and toy trains, my pixel days are over, eh? 12:43:47 <Alberth> V: do we ever not talk about lego? :) 12:44:11 <Wolf01> andy, it is, but I miss the excavator and the loader pieces :P 12:44:29 <andythenorth> bricklink ;) 12:45:01 <Wolf01> yes, that's what I'm doing 12:45:03 <andythenorth> I dunno, the Lego foamers on forums get excited about 27 million power functions, gearboxes, or whatever 12:45:12 <andythenorth> but I like the simple models with direct control over functions best 12:46:00 <Wolf01> I like them too, but they are impractical when on the stand where you need to do some show for kids 12:46:09 <Wolf01> so power functions come handy 12:46:37 *** oskari89 [oskari89@83-102-63-32.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit [] 12:47:00 <argoneus> Alberth: the only thing I could think of was thread stuff, if multiple threads need access to an object which should then die 12:47:07 <argoneus> but im not sure if they are thread safe 12:47:10 <Wolf01> and sbrick comes more handy, 2 volvo loaders, a truck and a caterpillar all moving together loading and carrying candies to kids 12:47:35 <Alberth> argoneus: they are not, unless you take care of it 12:47:44 <argoneus> welp 12:47:58 <Alberth> threads are hardly ever the solution, in my experience 12:49:08 <Alberth> in my case, I had a bunch of objects that were created, and then given away and used (read-only) to other parts of the code, where it was not clear when the last owner was done with it. 12:49:33 <argoneus> I see 12:50:01 <argoneus> Alberth: shouldn't you pass a non owning ptr in that case though? 12:50:11 <argoneus> and keep it uniquely in the host 12:50:23 <Alberth> perhaps, but how do you decide nobody uses it then? 12:50:44 <argoneus> ah right 12:50:54 <Alberth> my objects were all "use once" 12:51:06 <Alberth> but at various points in the code 12:51:21 <Alberth> eg like messages that you distribute 12:54:23 <argoneus> Alberth: actually 12:54:28 <argoneus> what usecase is there for pointers in general? 12:54:38 <argoneus> I read somewhere that either when the object is heavy or if you need to defer initialization 12:54:48 <argoneus> otherwise make it on the stack and pass references 12:54:50 <Alberth> sharing information 12:55:03 <Alberth> references cannot be null 12:55:21 <Alberth> ie pointers can express "there is no information" 12:55:36 <argoneus> hm, that makes sense I guess 12:55:47 <argoneus> if a function requires std::list<int>& 12:55:51 <argoneus> you can't pass NULL 12:55:55 <argoneus> or can you? 12:55:59 <argoneus> I can't say I've tried this 12:56:07 <Alberth> but in modern C++, the need for pointers is highly reduced, you can write most code without ever using a pointer explicitly 12:56:31 <Alberth> no, a reference needs a proper object 12:56:56 <Alberth> you can cast stuff to convince the compiler, but it won't do much good 12:59:41 <argoneus> mhm 13:00:14 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc87201-aztw31-2-0-cust156.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 13:01:46 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~farci@i59F6BE3E.versanet.de] has joined #openttd 13:11:59 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc87201-aztw31-2-0-cust156.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has joined #openttd 13:12:05 <andythenorth> eh? disconnected :P 13:12:07 <andythenorth> nvm 13:13:56 <andythenorth> eh, I just donât much like this new FIRS economy 13:14:01 <andythenorth> post-colonial 13:14:07 <andythenorth> you have to build your own industries 13:14:19 <andythenorth> maybe I shouldnât play that with Busy Bee :P 13:15:12 <V453000> xd 13:16:09 *** Defaultti [defaultti@lakka.kapsi.fi] has quit [Quit: Quitting.] 13:17:23 *** Defaultti [defaultti@lakka.kapsi.fi] has joined #openttd 13:20:29 *** smoke_fumus [~smoke_fum@188.35.176.90] has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.2.0 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/] 13:23:45 *** fonso [~fonsinche@188.cimarosa.openttdcoop.org] has quit [Killed (NickServ (Too many failed password attempts.))] 13:24:13 *** fonsinchen [~fonsinche@188.cimarosa.openttdcoop.org] has joined #openttd 13:27:07 *** frosch123 [~frosch@x4d010eee.dyn.telefonica.de] has joined #openttd 13:28:55 <andythenorth> quak 13:29:19 <frosch123> hoi 13:29:49 <argoneus> ayy 13:31:56 <frosch123> argoneus: think of a shared_ptr as something multiple things need access to, and it is unknown when they are finished 13:32:42 <frosch123> for example a signal/slot thingie in qt or whatever 13:32:57 <frosch123> something can trigger it, others register to it 13:33:20 <frosch123> when receivers are destroyed they need to unregister, similar when the sender is destroyed 13:33:50 <frosch123> so, all of them need to know when each of them is destroyed, and this "still exists" information is shared between them 13:34:56 <frosch123> another example: your browser downloads a zip file with a pdf in it. you want to open it with a pdf viewer, thus the browser extracts the zip to a temporary location 13:35:29 <frosch123> when to delete that temporary location? answer: when all instances of pdf viewers accessing that files exit, and when the reference from the broweser download list is removed 13:35:50 <frosch123> funnily shared_ptrs do not exist for windows file systems 13:36:02 <frosch123> at least in times i was still using windows 13:37:53 <argoneus> hm 13:38:15 <Alberth> hola 13:39:11 <frosch123> argoneus: so mostly, you need shared_ptrs when programming generically, and you do not know in advance what stuff will be used for, and in what order it will be used 13:50:46 <argoneus> modern c++ actually doesn't look that terrible 13:50:50 <argoneus> it's extremely verbose though 13:50:58 <argoneus> and I don't get why you need ownership, why just refcount isn't enough 13:52:40 <Alberth> those are different concepts 13:53:06 <argoneus> okay let me rephrase 13:53:08 <Alberth> ownership is about deciding who can access the data, and more importantly, who can change it 13:53:21 <argoneus> a non-owning pointer can change data too, no? 13:53:24 <argoneus> it's not read-only 13:53:32 <Alberth> sure 13:53:43 <argoneus> the only thing it can't do is delete the data 13:53:55 <argoneus> but you don't generally delete pointers inside random functions 13:54:03 <argoneus> that's usually up to the destructor 13:54:29 <Alberth> normally, yes 13:54:38 *** Clockworker [~Clockwork@189.73.141.98] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:54:58 <argoneus> so why does it matter which pointer is the "master" pointer and isn't it just simple refcount? 13:54:58 <Alberth> although if you pass data for processing, it's quite normal to discard it after being done with it 13:56:02 <Alberth> so you can give away the object to anyone, and everybody can write in it as they like? 13:56:12 <Alberth> how do you keep consistency? 13:56:36 <argoneus> well, you can give away non-owning pointers and they can write in it anyway 13:56:44 <Alberth> I may have used some value to base a other computations on, but then someone else changes those values 13:56:51 <Alberth> making my computation invalid 13:57:32 <Alberth> yes, ownership is not about the technical ability to write, it's about a set of agreements how to behave 13:57:46 <Alberth> just like the irc channel 13:57:59 <Alberth> we can all type here at the same time, yet we don't 13:58:12 <Alberth> we have an informal set of agreements on how to use the channel 13:58:34 <argoneus> so ownership mostly tells me "okay this function is the one supposed to modify this value" and other pointers can just receive or work with the value but shouldn't be intrusive? 13:58:36 <Alberth> that's ownership, imho 13:59:08 <Alberth> you want to have clear at all times who can read what and who can write what 13:59:28 <Alberth> the easiest solution is to have one owner that handles writing 13:59:36 <Alberth> ie the owner of the object 13:59:45 <Alberth> that is thus a very common pattern 14:00:22 <Alberth> you can invent other patterns, and that's fine, they are just different form of ownerships, different sets of agreement 14:01:18 <Alberth> refcount is just that nobody deletes the object while you still have it. However, technically, the refcount has no meaning without the ownership agreement that everybody uses the refcount rules 14:02:07 <Wolf01> mmmh 254MB free on the disk 14:02:30 <Alberth> E_TOO_MUCH_LEGO_STACKED_ON_DISK 14:02:45 <Wolf01> no, too much D&D stacked on disk 14:03:04 <Alberth> it's not lego, can't be interesting :p 14:03:25 <argoneus> hm, I guess I get the point kinda 14:03:59 <Wolf01> I think I'll go play with lego while it's moving the stuff in the ext drive 14:04:33 <argoneus> try not to step on it 14:04:49 <Alberth> 245mb is a lot of text, it would take a few hours to fill that :p 14:05:06 <Wolf01> it's PDF 14:05:34 <Alberth> oh, bloaty wrapper crap... pdf2text? :) 14:05:56 <argoneus> looking at some code though, christ 14:06:01 <argoneus> I remember people laughing at java for being too verbose 14:06:08 <argoneus> and then there's c++11 code 14:06:13 <Alberth> ? 14:06:22 <Wolf01> I need the tables and the images, also not everything is recognized by OCR 14:06:34 <argoneus> Alberth: there's container declarations almost longer than 80 cols 14:06:52 <argoneus> or, well, there can be 14:07:03 <Alberth> unlike Java, you can use typedef in c++ :) 14:07:22 <argoneus> oh, right 14:07:27 <argoneus> I can typedef a map to something more readable 14:07:45 <Alberth> I do that all the time 14:08:06 <frosch123> argoneus: you need to avoid reference cycles 14:08:14 <argoneus> hm 14:08:19 <argoneus> typedef is a compiler, not a preprocessor token 14:08:21 <argoneus> interesting 14:08:22 <Alberth> and if you have a smart compiler, it even folds your typedef back in the error messages 14:08:24 <frosch123> not everything can be a ref-counting pointer, else A refers to B, B to C and C to A 14:08:26 <frosch123> and you are stuck 14:09:06 <Alberth> frosch123: just like shapes with at least 2 eyes in Go, they live forever :) 14:09:08 <argoneus> well, I guess it's time to give C++ a try again 14:09:17 <argoneus> any of you guys used CLion by chance? 14:09:24 <argoneus> or are you mostly linux peeps 14:09:49 <Alberth> mostly unix, except apple-unix 14:09:55 <Alberth> here at least 14:32:47 <V453000> why do cantliever and tubular pillar sprites have 2 versions per direction? XD 14:32:56 <V453000> the sprites in original base set do not even have any difference 14:35:57 <Alberth> the original author is not here, and even if he was, he would probably not remember why :) 14:36:30 <V453000> well yeah but couldn't we make openttd use them differently if they are the same in all so-far-made base sets? 14:39:26 <frosch123> V453000: did you try bridge lengths 4,5,6,7 ? 14:39:34 <frosch123> they have different parts in the middle 14:51:59 <V453000> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/20419525/BRIX/bridge-pillars-current.png https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/20419525/BRIX/bridge-pillars-better.png 14:53:04 <V453000> rest is other sprite 14:53:08 <V453000> for some wtf reason it always is pillar n 1 14:53:21 <frosch123> "better" is 404 14:53:28 <V453000> reason is hard to find because both of the sprites are 100% the same 14:53:38 <V453000> tried with original base set, but I bet ogfx does the same 14:54:39 <Wolf01> http://img-9gag-fun.9cache.com/photo/ajAqBBw_460sv.mp4 ahahah 14:54:53 <frosch123> V453000: the original baseset has double pillars 14:55:07 <frosch123> maybe it is important wrt. whether to draw pillars at the bridge start/end 14:55:23 <V453000> but the sprite is the same 14:55:28 <Eddi|zuHause> the 404 is very... escher 14:55:33 <frosch123> i..e sprite 2527 draws a pillar at the south border, but 2528 does not 14:55:39 <V453000> double pillars are not for tubular or cantliever 14:55:56 <frosch123> still, the sprites are associated to tiles 14:56:03 <frosch123> what tile do those sprites belong to 14:56:23 <frosch123> the northern tile may not draw a pillar at the north border (bridge end) 14:56:23 <V453000> how do I know? XD 14:56:38 <frosch123> and the soutern tile may not draw a pillar at the south border (other brdige end) 14:56:57 <V453000> both of the sprites are still identical ._. 14:57:15 <frosch123> thus, if start/end of the bridge are not identical to the other tiles, there must be a different sprite at least at one end of thje bridge 14:57:24 <frosch123> V453000: but maybe different offsets? 14:57:26 <V453000> I think I understand 14:57:34 <V453000> no, exactly the same 14:57:38 <Mazur> Yeah, you gotta watch out for those brdige ends, they can cause havoc. 14:57:42 <frosch123> mabye 2528 is offseted so that it is drawn over the 2527 form the other tile 14:57:49 <V453000> sure but does that change anything? 14:58:08 <frosch123> V453000: ah, i get it 14:58:16 <V453000> ah you mean offset somewhere in game code, not in nml 14:58:18 <frosch123> the thing is: OTTD got smarter around 1.1 or something 14:58:30 <frosch123> it now cuts the sprites in the middle and draws the pilars in different lengths 14:58:41 <V453000> offsets are the first two parameters in template https://paste.openttdcoop.org/pl0lahmdp 14:58:42 <frosch123> you may need to use an older ottd version to see the difference 14:58:56 <V453000> :d aha 15:00:09 <frosch123> https://wiki.openttd.org/images/2/29/Higher_bridges.png <- in older versions you can see which tile draws which pillar 15:00:32 <frosch123> while newer ottd cuts the pillar sprite in the middle to create two fake sprites 15:00:32 <V453000> suspended bridges work differently 15:00:35 <V453000> they do not have this wtf 15:00:38 <V453000> only cantliever and tubular 15:01:26 <frosch123> i would expect sprite 2527 to have a pillar in the south, while sprite 2528 should be empty 15:02:49 <V453000> it is just weird shit. :) 15:03:16 <V453000> but using them like https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/20419525/BRIX/bridge-pillars-better.png would give more freedom to the graphics 15:03:44 <V453000> esp if the difference is not visible in any graphics atm (hence would not break anything) 15:03:49 <V453000> esp if the difference is not visible in any graphics atm (hence would not break anything) 15:05:39 <frosch123> that change is definitely NewBridges stuff :p 15:05:49 <frosch123> nothing for a baseset 15:06:01 <V453000> but it is just swapping 2 identical sprites... 15:06:05 <frosch123> also you change does not work 15:06:24 <V453000> I do not mean on side of newgrf or base set, on openttd side 15:06:24 <frosch123> as said: the most northern tile and most southern tile must draw different sprites 15:06:36 <frosch123> else you have a stall pillar at one end of the brdige 15:06:40 <V453000> k but cant the game take those from the same image? 15:07:10 <frosch123> what you try to achieve does not work with 2 sprites, you would need 4 15:07:11 <V453000> and use the second image for something useful? 15:07:20 <V453000> ok :D lets leave it at that 15:07:20 <andythenorth> hmm, all my industries need to be cartoon-ish, like the copper refinery? o-O 15:07:29 <frosch123> the second image is already used for something useful 15:07:40 <frosch123> namely to not have a stall pillar at the bridge end 15:08:10 <V453000> yes that I understand now 15:14:42 *** drac_boy [~oftc-webi@modemcable027.125-163-184.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #openttd 15:14:50 <drac_boy> hi 15:17:51 *** FLHerne [~flh@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has quit [Quit: There's a real world out here!] 15:18:08 *** FLHerne [~flh@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has joined #openttd 15:29:01 *** liq3 [liq3@CPE-120-148-51-74.gdfw1.lon.bigpond.net.au] has quit [] 15:30:17 <supermop> yo 15:30:24 <Alberth> oi 15:30:30 <supermop> andythenorth: agave in firs? 15:31:03 <drac_boy> hows you two? 15:31:29 <supermop> plant fibers, sugar, alcohol, fruit, or some selection thereof? 15:31:42 <supermop> alright i quit my job 15:32:42 <V453000> :d 15:34:13 <andythenorth> hmm 15:34:29 <supermop> trying to draw a little agave/maguey sprite that could replace a cactus and show up on a plantation 15:35:09 <supermop> i just got back from a week and a half in mexico, and had lots of mexcal and pulque 15:35:21 <supermop> no tequila though 15:35:21 <argoneus> some teacher from my uni just told me he's impressed with my iOS skills 15:35:26 <argoneus> ...I've never done anything with iOS 15:35:36 <Alberth> lol 15:35:47 <supermop> argoneus: did he see you using an iphone? 15:35:57 <argoneus> supermop: I've never owned or even touched a single apple product 15:36:04 <Alberth> so either he has very low standards, or he wants something from you :p 15:36:11 <argoneus> he posted some sort of programming quiz on our school's fb group 15:36:14 <argoneus> and I filled it because I was bored 15:36:21 <argoneus> and I guess he assumes I know iOS from my responses 15:36:36 <Alberth> you mean there are other systems??? 15:36:39 <Alberth> :) 15:36:40 <supermop> well you probably could figure out how to use an ipad, and maybee that's all he wants 15:36:46 <argoneus> well 15:36:51 <argoneus> it's a teacher at my uni who teaches iOS 15:36:54 <argoneus> and owns a startup 15:37:09 <supermop> needs seed funnding and/or cheap devs 15:37:20 <argoneus> probably the latter lmao 15:37:52 <argoneus> what is seed funding actually 15:38:21 <Alberth> you talking about him at random places 15:38:46 <argoneus> oy 15:39:03 <supermop> andythenorth: agave could replace sugar cane in arid areas, but unfortunately any map with a desert will also have tropics, so maybe pointless 15:39:10 <andythenorth> yair 15:39:27 * andythenorth needs a manor house type building or similar 15:39:31 <andythenorth> for a vineyard 15:39:44 <Alberth> castle! 15:39:48 <supermop> but mezcal is good and agave plants would look cute in arid inland mountains 15:39:58 <andythenorth> where can I steal a sprite from 15:40:06 <supermop> i guess in tropic all mountains are rainforests 15:40:30 <supermop> andythenorth: french? colonial? english? spanish? 15:40:49 <andythenorth> has to work for any 15:40:59 <andythenorth> generic mediterranean style 15:41:00 <andythenorth> would do 15:41:27 <supermop> i guess generic Mediterranean would fit the most number of wine producing areas 15:41:41 <andythenorth> maybe I can adapt the grain mill 15:41:42 <andythenorth> http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/firs/push/LATEST/docs/html/industries.html#grain_mill 15:41:57 <supermop> lots of guys in napa valley build med. style houses 15:42:02 <andythenorth> needs to look different to this though http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/firs/push/LATEST/docs/html/industries.html#coffee_estate 15:42:07 <supermop> less so in auz 15:42:39 <supermop> should look more stately than coffee one 15:42:52 <drac_boy> if I had to pick an existing phone-ready mobile os..hm well..I would have had to say android 15:42:54 <supermop> they've got to put in on the bottle lable! 15:42:55 <drac_boy> to our own on that tho 15:43:03 <andythenorth> supermop: agreed 15:43:23 <supermop> do you have a wine with a house on the label at hand? 15:43:46 <supermop> all of mine here have modernist or hipstery designs on them 15:44:24 <supermop> i kind of tired of french wine though, and only have s. american and australian 15:44:34 <supermop> why pay $$$ 15:45:45 <Alberth> it casts lots of $$$, it must be good? 15:45:56 <supermop> http://static1.squarespace.com/static/55d505bde4b036ba5df7cc15/t/55f4742de4b07856e0072036/1442083890843/Sherry+Valdespino+tasting.jpg 15:46:14 <supermop> more italian ones are less symmetrical 15:46:40 <supermop> ideally, base set would have a mansion, and you would just reference that 15:46:55 <supermop> and then region specific house sets could replace it 15:47:14 <supermop> so you could get a manor in the style of whatever house set you use 15:49:09 <supermop> just use the grain mill for now 15:52:40 *** glx [~glx@000128ec.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 15:52:43 *** mode/#openttd [+v glx] by ChanServ 16:00:00 <andythenorth> maybe I should worry less about the buildings 16:00:04 <andythenorth> and more about the vines 16:00:07 <andythenorth> currently it uses trees :P 16:00:30 <supermop> haha 16:00:47 <supermop> can make wine out of apples 16:01:02 <supermop> most people would call it cider though 16:02:21 <andythenorth> hmm 16:02:39 <andythenorth> so now I have a feature for FIRS 2.0: âremoved Heart of Darknessâ economy 16:02:41 <drac_boy> apple + glass = food :) 16:02:45 <andythenorth> and no replacement :( 16:03:02 <andythenorth> balls 16:07:13 <andythenorth> anyone prepared to play test FIRS for me? 16:08:52 <andythenorth> this economy too big, too blah http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/firs/push/LATEST/docs/html/economies.html#hopes_and_impediments 16:16:59 <ConductorCat> :3 16:18:05 *** Clockworker [~Clockwork@2804:14d:2c82:1d43:64c4:6866:5bbd:2eae] has joined #openttd 16:21:16 <supermop> sure i'll try 16:22:36 <andythenorth> itâs got a âpost-colonialâ idea that 50% of the industries arenât available at map gen 16:22:47 <andythenorth> I think thatâs dumb for gameplay, and Iâm about to scrap it :P 16:22:54 <andythenorth> supermop: ^ 16:23:50 <Alberth> that's a new experience for industry sets :) 16:24:03 <andythenorth> scrapping it? 16:24:11 <andythenorth> or 50% of industries missing :P 16:29:43 <Alberth> missing industries 16:29:59 *** roidal [~roland@193-154-143-43.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #openttd 16:30:26 <supermop> andythenorth: is this in nightly? 16:30:41 <andythenorth> yea, but I am changing it :P 16:31:07 <andythenorth> hmm 16:31:16 <andythenorth> we only have RHS â chars in game :P 16:31:23 <andythenorth> partial smart quote? 16:31:47 <supermop> four agaves per tile or 16? 16:32:53 <andythenorth> really thereâs no char for LH quote mark? :o 16:32:58 <supermop> also do farms control the animation of crops? or does it alwas take the same amount of time for a tile to mature? 16:33:21 <supermop> i guess non-grain fields can't be real fields so doesn't matter 16:33:55 <andythenorth> yes 16:34:42 <Alberth> use unicode? 16:36:06 * andythenorth wonders if the char is present in original baseset font 16:37:55 <andythenorth> eh, the in-game license viewer uses plain " chars 16:38:15 <andythenorth> maybe there's a way :( 16:39:30 <Eddi|zuHause> what font do you use? 16:40:33 <andythenorth> TTD base set 16:42:07 <andythenorth> hmm 16:42:17 * andythenorth cuts out the post-colonial history lesson from FIRS 16:42:19 <andythenorth> definitely better 16:42:32 *** Mucht [~Martin@000128e2.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 16:47:51 *** Biolunar [Biolunar@x4d025b1f.dyn.telefonica.de] has quit [Quit: leaving] 16:52:51 <drac_boy> going eat now so bye :) 16:52:53 *** drac_boy [~oftc-webi@modemcable027.125-163-184.mc.videotron.ca] has left #openttd [] 17:06:26 <andythenorth> anyone feel like doing a West African town names grf? 17:08:42 *** Snail [~jacopocol@cpe-98-14-130-227.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #openttd 17:09:20 <Alberth> pop up a warning "no west-african town names detected" whenever you start firs :p 17:12:14 <andythenorth> how hard is a town names grf? 17:12:19 * andythenorth doesn't want another project :P 17:21:28 <Alberth> not 17:22:06 <Alberth> find a list of names, wrap some blurb text around it, throw it at nml, done 17:23:53 <andythenorth> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lists_of_cities_in_Africa 17:23:54 <andythenorth> :P 17:24:23 <andythenorth> ho, this even http://fantasynamegenerators.com/west-african-town-names.php#.Vpp8lXiLj7U 17:25:04 <Alberth> http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/dutchtowns/repository/entry/dtnames.nml 17:25:45 <Alberth> for advanced uses, you can have a sequence of parts, eg common suffixes 17:26:04 <Alberth> or common prefixes, or both 17:26:54 <Alberth> ie action F without the stupid limits :p 17:33:00 <andythenorth> so I have 330 names :P 17:33:09 * andythenorth should read some dutchtowns code 17:35:14 * andythenorth checks FIRS 18:01:32 * andythenorth wonders why FIRS didn't build :| 18:04:26 <Alberth> https://jenkins.openttdcoop.org/job/firs/960/console 18:22:00 <andythenorth> yair 18:22:06 <andythenorth> "that's not valid python" 18:22:50 <frosch123> is it a colubrid? 18:24:30 * andythenorth tries again 18:24:56 <supermop> damn it i am halfway across this 1024 map and i've only got the bronx part of my pelham line done 18:28:08 <supermop> that's with making everything short and stubby too 18:30:33 *** Mucht [~Martin@000128e2.user.oftc.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:33:10 <andythenorth> supermop: if you want to try this :) âŠ. http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/firs/push/LATEST/docs/html/economies.html 18:34:04 <andythenorth> specifically http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/firs/push/LATEST/docs/html/economies.html#in_a_hot_country 18:35:07 <supermop> going to get lunch first 18:37:01 <andythenorth> ok :) 18:37:53 * andythenorth not sure about iron ore 18:38:08 <andythenorth> it's already in 2 other economies, and I've got a possible Australian economy in mind, where it will be needed 18:38:20 * andythenorth considers uranium 18:38:27 <andythenorth> there was some reason I didn't want to do that before :P 18:38:32 <andythenorth> can't remember it 18:38:35 <supermop> idk iron seems to be a bit of a big deal 18:38:52 *** glevans2 [~glevans2@68-116-139-65.dhcp.ftwo.tx.charter.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:39:07 <supermop> perennial favorite with people for the last 10-20 thousnd years 18:39:24 <andythenorth> channel search is broken :D http://irclogs.qmsk.net/channels/openttd/search?count=5000&q=uranium 18:40:30 <supermop> i always thought that the issue with nuclear fuel in game was less anything political, and more, so little of it gets moved around so seldomly 18:41:01 <supermop> no fun to refuel a power plant with a 1-car train once every 2 years 18:41:29 *** glevans2 [~glevans2@68-116-139-65.dhcp.ftwo.tx.charter.com] has joined #openttd 18:42:19 <supermop> without electricity in game you can't even rationalize that as a benefit ("at least I don't need to clog up my rails with long coal trains to still get power!") 18:43:06 <Alberth> driving at 5km/h :) 18:43:24 <supermop> i mean i love weird overzealous timetabling, so i would schedule a train once every other year, but i don't know how station or industries in game would understand that 18:44:06 <supermop> CD would drop link between processing plant and power station 18:44:15 <planetmaker> haha, that would make for awesome wagon speed limits: 80 or 120 km/h usually. Except for uranium, then it's 5km/h :P 18:44:24 <planetmaker> so much for the dreaded r-word 18:44:26 <andythenorth> oh yeah, it's the stupid low volumes 18:44:37 <andythenorth> but it could be done in flasks or whatever 18:44:45 <andythenorth> instead of tonnes 18:44:57 <supermop> you can't run it at night either - it's always rushhour in ottd land 18:45:06 <planetmaker> that doesn't make it really better, andythenorth 18:45:20 <andythenorth> because...? 18:45:28 <supermop> andythenorth: its still like 5 flasks per decade 18:45:48 <andythenorth> I was delivering it to ports :) 18:46:05 <andythenorth> and I don't think input amounts to black holes matter in this game much anyway 18:46:11 <supermop> unless the power company is paying you to run decoys regularly as well 18:46:14 <andythenorth> 2000 tonnes of cement to your hardware store? 18:46:16 <andythenorth> no problem 18:46:29 <planetmaker> andythenorth, I doubt the uranium quay is in heavy use at any port 18:46:31 <Alberth> isn't industry like diamond mines having that low production? (or gold or so?) 18:46:40 <planetmaker> yes, they do 18:46:42 <andythenorth> diamonds have <100 bags / month 18:46:44 <andythenorth> as valuables 18:46:47 <andythenorth> I find them a bit boring tbh 18:46:53 <andythenorth> but uranium could be same 18:47:00 <supermop> maybe a local dam builder buys all his cement at the hardware store 18:47:02 <andythenorth> but it doesn't encourage long trains etc 18:47:29 <andythenorth> 1 flask of uranium per vehicle? 18:50:48 <supermop> although there is no crime, terrorism, or war in openttd world, so you don't need to heavily guard it 18:52:18 <V453000> join yeti in uranium :D 18:52:38 *** Progman [~progman@p57A19024.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:56:00 <supermop> what to get for lunch 19:00:47 <andythenorth> cheese 19:04:38 *** FLHerne [~flh@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has quit [Quit: There's a real world out here!] 19:04:58 *** FLHerne [~flh@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has joined #openttd 19:17:44 <Alberth> bread 19:17:49 <Alberth> butter is nice too 19:21:37 <andythenorth> spiral concentrators for sand mining http://i01.i.aliimg.com/img/pb/039/902/686/686902039_839.jpg 19:21:45 <andythenorth> a bit wtf looking 19:22:13 <peter1138> wtf 19:22:24 <Alberth> looks awesome :) 19:24:56 <andythenorth> http://www.muinebeach.net/Vietnam-black_sand-radiation-titanium-uranium-ilmenite-monazite-rutile-zircon.htm 19:25:03 <andythenorth> floating on barges for lagoon dredging 19:25:38 <andythenorth> http://www.electrum.com.au/images/portfo/5.png 19:25:46 <andythenorth> (illegal dredging apparently) 19:29:44 *** glx is now known as Guest707 19:29:44 *** glx [~glx@000128ec.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 19:29:47 *** mode/#openttd [+v glx] by ChanServ 19:32:25 <Alberth> heart of darkness all over again :( 19:33:51 <sim-al2> But default OTTD does have those armored vans for valuables.... 19:34:31 <andythenorth> this one is pretty serious http://www.tizir.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/untitled3.png 19:35:25 <__ln__> and it's a png 19:35:59 *** Guest707 [~glx@000128ec.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:43:02 *** FLHerne [~flh@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:45:10 * andythenorth wonders about ilmenite mine 19:46:40 *** Snail [~jacopocol@cpe-98-14-130-227.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Snail] 19:57:47 *** DanMacK [~63f949b5@188.cimarosa.openttdcoop.org] has joined #openttd 20:00:32 *** Wormnest [~Wormnest@s5596abd2.adsl.online.nl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:00:53 *** Wormnest [~Wormnest@s5596abd2.adsl.online.nl] has joined #openttd 20:42:36 *** DanMacK [~63f949b5@188.cimarosa.openttdcoop.org] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 20:46:31 * andythenorth needs one more kind of import / export industry 20:46:43 <andythenorth> got Bulk Terminal, Port, Trading Post currently 20:48:09 <andythenorth> could do a petro-chemical terminal, but it's basically same as oil refinery 20:48:17 <andythenorth> oil in, petrol, chemicals out 20:48:25 <andythenorth> or petrol, chemicals in, nothing out 20:52:15 <andythenorth> could do 'deepwater terminal', but eh 20:52:19 <andythenorth> or 'quay' 20:52:40 <andythenorth> when translated, the difference between those and 'bulk terminal' or 'port' might be meaningless 20:54:24 <andythenorth> I could do a totally generic 'merchant' 20:56:21 <Eddi|zuHause> do an economy that is only import-export, no producing industry. 20:56:38 <Eddi|zuHause> and all the industries cluster at one point of the map 20:57:36 <frosch123> Add an exploration camp 20:57:54 <frosch123> accepts food, tools and glass 20:58:02 <frosch123> supplies gold and diamonds 20:58:12 <andythenorth> frosch123: I quite like that :D 20:58:17 <andythenorth> the diamond mines are boring 20:58:29 <andythenorth> prospectors camp 20:58:36 <andythenorth> maybe conflates with 'prospecting' 20:59:00 <andythenorth> 'import / export merchant' ? :P 20:59:03 <andythenorth> seems bland 20:59:07 <Eddi|zuHause> simulate the office of the bank guy who gets the diamonds from the miners and pays them 20:59:19 <andythenorth> yeah 20:59:28 <andythenorth> was going to do that 20:59:34 <andythenorth> but it's just a boring black hole? 21:00:33 <Eddi|zuHause> no, it's the source of the diamonds, not the destination. 21:01:27 <andythenorth> oic :) 21:03:44 <andythenorth> still, where do they go? :) 21:03:59 <frosch123> girls 21:04:17 <andythenorth> diamons -> merchant -> wives? 21:04:25 <andythenorth> are wives a cargo? 21:04:56 <frosch123> don't add a merchant that supplies wives :/ 21:05:39 <frosch123> add a "wedding fair" 21:06:19 <andythenorth> this economy gets interesting 21:06:22 <andythenorth> what to call it? 21:06:26 <frosch123> though judging your excessive chemical usage 21:06:35 <frosch123> how about delivering diamonds to the glass works :p 21:06:39 <frosch123> for cutting the glass 21:07:19 <andythenorth> industrial diamonds? 21:08:06 <frosch123> you mean, deliver coal to diamond plants instead of power plants? :p 21:08:19 <andythenorth> ho 21:08:22 <frosch123> removes another blackhole :p 21:08:29 <andythenorth> such many ideas :) 21:08:56 <supermop> my fiance just bought a wedding dress for 21:09:18 <andythenorth> wedding dress cargo 21:09:19 <supermop> i don't think i can find a suit for that price outside of vietnam 21:09:41 <frosch123> supermop: sounds like barbie size 21:10:21 <frosch123> here you rent wedding dresses for 1/3 of the purchase price 21:10:46 <supermop> sounds still cheaper 21:10:52 <frosch123> you just need to be rational enough to not want to keep it 21:10:57 <andythenorth> supermop: try vietnam? 21:11:05 <frosch123> sounds wrong :p 21:11:21 <supermop> i never understood those 00+ dresses 21:11:44 <supermop> i can sort of understand a suit that much if it is bespoke hand made, but even then 21:11:59 <supermop> (and i don't mind expensive clothes) 21:12:02 <frosch123> you don't mass produce dresses 21:12:25 <frosch123> you need to offer a lot of choice, but do not sell many of each at all 21:12:31 <frosch123> that makes the production very inefficient 21:12:45 <supermop> andythenorth: no time to go back before wedding. closest ill get is taiwan and hk in june 21:12:55 <andythenorth> my wedding suit came from HK 21:13:00 <andythenorth> wasn't though 21:13:25 <supermop> frosch123: i understand that part, but i never really like those dresses from a fashion or style standpoint either 21:16:30 <supermop> my grandma got married in a suit that she just wore to the office most days 21:16:38 <Eddi|zuHause> studies have shown that cost of the wedding is reciprocal to length of the wedding 21:16:45 <Alberth> :) 21:16:55 <supermop> but that was in 1949, and they had no ceremony 21:16:58 <frosch123> interesting study :) 21:17:27 <andythenorth> mine was 4 days :P 21:17:37 <Eddi|zuHause> i meant length of the marriage 21:17:51 <andythenorth> as yet unproven, in my case 21:19:22 <Eddi|zuHause> reversely, number of people attending is proportional to length 21:19:42 <andythenorth> hmm 21:19:43 <andythenorth> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thirteen_Factories 21:19:46 <andythenorth> 'merchants' 21:21:01 *** Trollebas [~oftc-webi@ip94-143-240-133.sampo.ru] has joined #openttd 21:21:18 <Trollebas> Heloy 21:21:46 *** Trollebas [~oftc-webi@ip94-143-240-133.sampo.ru] has quit [] 21:22:39 <Eddi|zuHause> yes. 21:22:41 <andythenorth> 'merchants', 'merchants pier', 'merchants landing' ? 21:23:03 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: what are those supposed to do? 21:23:13 <andythenorth> accept / produce high value cargos 21:23:16 <frosch123> andythenorth: contraband bay 21:23:19 <andythenorth> diamonds, gold, goods etc 21:23:23 <andythenorth> 'smugglers' :D 21:23:25 <andythenorth> ha ha 21:23:43 *** sla_ro|master [slamaster@89.136.141.100] has quit [] 21:23:51 <frosch123> yeah, smugglers for high-value, low-volume cargos 21:23:51 <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: three chinese with a contraband? :p 21:24:21 <frosch123> maybe contraband is AE, no idea, andy may know better 21:24:36 <frosch123> i thought 'smugglers' was too german 21:24:50 <andythenorth> smuggles smuggle contraband 21:25:02 <frosch123> ah, ok :) 21:25:03 <Eddi|zuHause> contraband is the product being smuggled, not the smugglers 21:25:32 <frosch123> anyway, it may allow you do create some distinguishable graphics 21:25:38 <frosch123> instead of yet another generic port :p 21:26:12 <andythenorth> merchants and smugglers separate? 21:26:18 <andythenorth> one gives more goods back than the other :P 21:27:31 * andythenorth will think on 21:28:11 <andythenorth> 'pirates' 21:29:09 *** Progman [~progman@p57A19024.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 21:29:28 <andythenorth> generic ports are boring 21:29:37 <andythenorth> bbl or tomorrow 21:29:38 <Eddi|zuHause> i have no clue where you're going with this... 21:29:53 <andythenorth> economy that exports a lot of primary cargo 21:30:00 <andythenorth> and imports most tertiary cargo 21:30:08 <andythenorth> and some secondary 21:30:22 <andythenorth> to make it work, needs export / import industries 21:30:50 <andythenorth> ports instead of refineries, processorts etc 21:31:00 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc87201-aztw31-2-0-cust156.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 21:33:35 *** frosch123 [~frosch@x4d010eee.dyn.telefonica.de] has quit [Quit: be yourself, except: if you have the opportunity to be a unicorn, then be a unicorn] 21:33:58 *** Alberth [~alberth@2001:981:c6c5:1:be5f:f4ff:feac:e11] has left #openttd [] 21:43:28 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc87201-aztw31-2-0-cust156.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has joined #openttd 21:54:42 *** Snail [~jacopocol@cpe-98-14-130-227.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #openttd 22:18:11 *** roidal [~roland@193-154-143-43.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 1.3] 22:25:04 *** Snail [~jacopocol@cpe-98-14-130-227.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Snail] 22:26:34 *** Snail [~jacopocol@cpe-98-14-130-227.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #openttd 22:28:52 *** Snail [~jacopocol@cpe-98-14-130-227.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [] 22:30:28 *** slaca [~laci@185.29.80.230] has joined #openttd 22:37:06 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc87201-aztw31-2-0-cust156.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 22:56:33 *** glevans2 [~glevans2@68-116-139-65.dhcp.ftwo.tx.charter.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:57:07 *** glevans2 [~glevans2@68-116-139-65.dhcp.ftwo.tx.charter.com] has joined #openttd 22:59:42 *** Tirili [~Unknown@2a02:8109:680:910:260:6eff:fe42:7728] has joined #openttd 23:29:40 *** Biolunar [Biolunar@x4d025b1f.dyn.telefonica.de] has joined #openttd 23:32:43 *** Snail [~jacopocol@cpe-98-14-130-227.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #openttd 23:42:53 *** iostat [~iostat@p2003006A6C5EDD00157C8C1820A6E561.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Quit: iostat] 23:43:08 *** slaca [~laci@185.29.80.230] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:50:25 *** gelignite [~gelignite@f048016229.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Quit: http://bit.ly/1kso8Ta] 23:53:46 *** Tirili [~Unknown@2a02:8109:680:910:260:6eff:fe42:7728] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:59:07 *** namad7 [aaaaa@pool-108-17-112-179.pitbpa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #openttd