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00:21:09 *** debdog has quit IRC 00:23:40 *** debdog has joined #openttd 01:08:59 *** Arveen2 has joined #openttd 01:12:15 *** Arveen has quit IRC 01:12:42 <Wolf01> 'night 01:12:45 *** Wolf01 has quit IRC 01:28:39 *** sim-al2 is now known as Guest2334 01:28:40 *** sim-al2 has joined #openttd 01:33:44 *** Guest2334 has quit IRC 01:42:51 *** Flygon has joined #openttd 01:51:14 *** glx has quit IRC 02:20:50 *** Sylf has joined #openttd 02:22:39 *** minisylf has quit IRC 03:00:18 *** Eearslya has joined #openttd 03:00:26 *** silly-tux has quit IRC 04:12:57 *** Eearslya has quit IRC 05:28:51 *** Cubey has quit IRC 05:30:35 *** sla_ro|master has joined #openttd 05:57:36 *** Guest2323 has quit IRC 06:18:18 <V453000> the piece of shit dropbox disabled public links even for paying users! 06:18:25 <V453000> that's fucking disgusting 06:18:59 *** HerzogDeXtEr1 has quit IRC 06:21:38 *** orudge` has quit IRC 06:21:44 *** orudge` has joined #openttd 06:21:44 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o orudge` 06:35:12 <peter1138> welcome to the cloud - "somebody else's computer" 06:40:53 <V453000> well if the service is free I expect anything 06:41:10 <V453000> if it's paid, changing the terms and removing important features is just not nice to say the least 06:44:31 *** dark_pingus has joined #openttd 06:54:44 <Eddi|zuHause> V453000: well, you're free to cancel the service 06:57:47 <V453000> obviously 06:58:02 <V453000> with 1 year pre-paid plan 07:00:04 <Eddi|zuHause> with changes to terms of service you have a special cancel option, even if they don't tell you that 07:02:49 <V453000> well let's see 07:03:00 <V453000> regardless, fuck them is the final outcome of this anyway 07:15:50 *** Markk has quit IRC 07:16:33 *** Biolunar has joined #openttd 07:23:01 *** orudge` has quit IRC 07:23:34 *** orudge` has joined #openttd 07:23:34 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o orudge` 07:25:16 *** Markk has joined #openttd 08:41:37 *** Hiddenfunstuff has joined #openttd 08:54:09 *** sla_ro|master has quit IRC 08:55:42 *** debdog has quit IRC 08:57:20 *** debdog has joined #openttd 09:00:10 *** dark_pingus has quit IRC 10:10:27 *** FLHerne has joined #openttd 10:32:50 <Thanark_> do I need to set my trains to do something to upgrade them? I selected them to replace just like I did last upgrade but this time nothing is replacing. even fast forwarded months 10:43:34 <Thanark_> figured it out. need to change over to electric railways to build the electric trains 10:54:06 *** Wolf01 has joined #openttd 10:54:11 <Wolf01> Moin 10:57:16 <Wolf01> Woke up and read this: https://translate.google.it/translate?sl=it&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=it&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.corriere.it%2Feconomia%2F17_agosto_11%2Fritorno-dell-apprendista-piu-27percento-confronto-agevolazioni-le-assunzioni-giovani-b8ff445c-7ed0-11e7-9e20-fd5bf758afd2.shtml%3Fcmpid%3DPA178012501DCOR&edit-text=&act=url ... I've already got enough for today and want to sleep again 10:57:31 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd 10:57:33 <andythenorth> https://twitter.com/VoxelTycoon 10:57:51 <Wolf01> Yes 10:59:27 <andythenorth> V453000: ^ 10:59:36 <andythenorth> there’s an SDK http://voxeltycoon.xyz/sdk 11:00:35 <V453000> voxel hate still happening 11:00:39 <V453000> sorry :> 11:01:24 <andythenorth> all that is needed is to make voxels look like this https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=blocky+roads&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiEueqfydbVAhVCKsAKHasXB2IQ_AUICygC&biw=1229&bih=781#imgrc=1IvUCC_YeDFWaM: 11:01:29 <andythenorth> which is clone of minecraft style 11:01:41 <andythenorth> which is clone of OpenTTD style crossed with Doom 11:02:02 <andythenorth> so we’re back at Simon Foster and the ID guys just invented everything worth having 11:02:07 <andythenorth> and that is all 11:02:15 <V453000> haha yes 11:02:26 <andythenorth> if I wasn’t busy I’d solve it :P 11:02:44 <V453000> I just really hate that everyone feels like it's easy to make voxels and minecraft does it so let's all do it 11:02:50 <andythenorth> not easy 11:02:54 <andythenorth> like pixels not easy 11:03:00 <V453000> it's not easy to do it right 11:03:05 <V453000> it's easy to make something shitty with it 11:03:32 <andythenorth> such crappy 11:03:42 * andythenorth back to work 11:03:45 <andythenorth> fixing your democracy 11:08:03 *** andythenorth has left #openttd 11:09:58 <peter1138> but voxeltycoon looks ok 11:10:11 <peter1138> slopes would be nicer than just cobes though 11:24:33 <Wolf01> I want to shit my lifey fix... I mean, I want to fix my shitty life 11:29:32 <__ln___> Wolf01: sure, some day i will visit venice. i've already been to venice beach, california; does that count? 11:29:37 *** FLHerne has quit IRC 11:29:55 <Wolf01> I don't think so :P 11:32:40 <__ln___> what about the Venetian casino in las vegas? been there too. 11:41:37 <Wolf01> It's like going to disneyland :P 11:59:45 *** mescalito has joined #openttd 12:03:46 *** FLHerne has joined #openttd 12:13:55 *** eekee1 has left #openttd 12:32:15 *** JacobD88 has joined #openttd 12:34:50 *** silly-tux has joined #openttd 13:23:31 *** roidal has joined #openttd 13:34:19 <supermop> yo 14:00:57 *** sla_ro|master has joined #openttd 14:08:54 *** debdog has quit IRC 14:11:57 *** debdog has joined #openttd 14:24:32 *** sla_ro|master has quit IRC 14:24:52 *** sla_ro|master has joined #openttd 14:26:24 *** Alberth has joined #openttd 14:26:24 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o Alberth 14:26:39 <Alberth> o/ 14:27:39 *** Cubey has joined #openttd 14:28:04 <Wolf01> o/ 14:33:26 *** JacobD88 has quit IRC 14:46:52 *** silly-tux has quit IRC 14:50:06 *** sla_ro|master has quit IRC 15:19:55 <crem> \o 15:31:05 *** sla_ro|master has joined #openttd 15:39:09 *** Gja has joined #openttd 15:42:02 *** Wormnest has joined #openttd 15:47:50 *** Maraxus has joined #openttd 15:52:17 *** Maraxus has quit IRC 15:56:36 *** orudge` has quit IRC 15:56:40 *** orudge` has joined #openttd 15:56:40 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o orudge` 16:03:59 *** supermop has quit IRC 16:04:45 *** orudge` has quit IRC 16:04:50 *** orudge` has joined #openttd 16:04:50 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o orudge` 16:08:17 *** Flygon has quit IRC 16:14:13 *** glx has joined #openttd 16:14:13 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v glx 16:21:19 <Wolf01> It took me the entire afternoon to clearly understand the adapter pattern... I'm becoming more stupid every day 16:27:04 *** Progman has joined #openttd 16:51:55 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd 16:51:57 <andythenorth> isn’t it? 16:55:38 *** HerzogDeXtEr has joined #openttd 17:00:31 <Alberth> o/ 17:03:30 <andythenorth> hi 17:12:43 <LordAro> it is 17:13:36 *** Zuu has joined #openttd 17:13:41 <Alberth> o/ 17:14:16 <Zuu> Hello 17:16:56 <planetmaker> \o 17:22:16 <andythenorth> bbls 17:22:16 *** andythenorth has left #openttd 17:38:27 *** Stimrol has joined #openttd 17:46:31 *** Stimrol has quit IRC 17:48:27 *** orudge` has quit IRC 17:48:28 *** orudge` has joined #openttd 17:48:29 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o orudge` 17:51:05 *** frosch123 has joined #openttd 18:07:47 <V453000> how does roadhog save 8bpp? Something in python has to check the palette, right? 18:07:50 <V453000> andythenorth: 18:07:53 <V453000> oh he no here 18:08:38 <frosch123> you mean pixa? 18:09:12 <V453000> there seems to be some putpalette thing 18:09:25 <V453000> yeah in pixa :) 18:14:56 <Wolf01> Quak 18:22:55 *** Gumle2 has joined #openttd 18:23:09 *** Wormnest_ has joined #openttd 18:23:39 *** Geth has joined #openttd 18:25:11 *** orudge` has quit IRC 18:25:32 *** orudge` has joined #openttd 18:25:32 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o orudge` 18:26:45 *** ericnoan has quit IRC 18:27:49 *** ProfFrink has joined #openttd 18:28:35 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd 18:29:12 *** TrueBrain has quit IRC 18:29:20 *** Gja has quit IRC 18:29:26 *** Gumle2 is now known as Gja 18:29:30 *** Keridos has quit IRC 18:29:35 *** Prof_Frink has quit IRC 18:29:35 *** ProfFrink is now known as Prof_Frink 18:29:36 *** TrueBrain has joined #openttd 18:29:37 *** Keridos has joined #openttd 18:29:40 *** Hiddenfunstuff has quit IRC 18:29:55 *** Wormnest has quit IRC 18:30:29 <andythenorth> so eh 18:30:49 *** ericnoan has joined #openttd 18:32:39 <andythenorth> so how did it used to work? 18:32:46 <andythenorth> I only started playing around 0.6 or so 18:32:55 <andythenorth> and not much in irc until maybe 0.7 18:33:00 * andythenorth hasn’t actually checked versions 18:33:17 <andythenorth> there were just more people? 18:33:22 <andythenorth> or bigger gaps? 18:33:25 <andythenorth> less intertia? 18:33:33 <andythenorth> lower standards? 18:36:30 <V453000> everything going to shit? 18:38:11 *** FLHerne has quit IRC 18:39:15 <andythenorth> everything 18:43:04 <frosch123> in 2007 it would have been easy to just dump everything on github 18:43:24 <frosch123> no bananas and stuff 18:43:28 <andythenorth> o_O 18:44:14 <frosch123> the discussion topic have not really changed since then 18:44:21 <frosch123> that's why the suggestion forum is so boring 18:44:33 <frosch123> just the easy things got done 18:44:41 <andythenorth> we mostly don’t need suggestions imho 18:44:46 <frosch123> and some easy things made other things harder 18:45:13 <andythenorth> classic 18:45:33 <andythenorth> what are the strongest examples of that? 18:45:40 <frosch123> well, some things which were hard back then, would be easier today 18:45:49 <frosch123> like order lists got rewritten like twice? 18:46:10 <frosch123> if we had todays order lists in 2007, we would never got the weird group gui 18:46:55 <andythenorth> the state is remarkably similar to the big commercial app that is the main product my business sells 18:47:13 <andythenorth> round about 2008 we made some architectural decisions which hurt now and make development sometimes glacial 18:47:29 <andythenorth> other things move because we have paying customers :) 18:47:44 <andythenorth> but we are totally blocked in some areas by our choice of user+groups implementation 18:48:30 <andythenorth> other things are slow because we have >5k admin users who are used to things working a certain way 18:48:43 <frosch123> i have it easier at work :) the stuff i work on is mostly based on science and math 18:48:51 <frosch123> so there is a definite right thing to do 18:49:05 <frosch123> if you need to you can dump a subcomponent and rewrite it 18:49:41 <frosch123> you do not need to worry about breaking some esoteric use-case of some users, there is a correct thing to do 18:49:55 <andythenorth> we have that 18:50:00 <andythenorth> and old browsers 18:50:13 <andythenorth> and the need to preserve absolute integrity of data, and all savegames 18:50:22 <andythenorth> ‘savegames’ is perhaps misleading, it’s not games :) 18:50:57 <andythenorth> our customers can end up in court if we make mistakes, or break content 18:51:09 <andythenorth> so innovating is challenging :) 18:51:38 <andythenorth> meanwhile, how about we ask Kamnet to do release announcements? o_O 18:51:53 <frosch123> he wanted to do that two years ago :) 18:52:08 <andythenorth> too busy? 18:52:21 <frosch123> i think he also has twitter access 18:52:47 <andythenorth> is anyone actually in charge here these days? o_O 18:52:53 <andythenorth> or is it some kind of whuffie collective? 18:53:06 <andythenorth> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whuffie 18:53:21 <michi_cc> andythenorth: Going by chat lines I would guess you :p 18:53:27 <andythenorth> absolutely not 18:53:34 <andythenorth> I would be the worst BDFL ever 18:53:54 <andythenorth> but I would be quite happy to go around FS etc saying ‘no’ to things 18:54:18 <andythenorth> I think the current goals are pretty clear and solid https://wiki.openttd.org/FAQ_development#What_are_the_goals_of_the_offical_branch.3F 18:54:34 <frosch123> andythenorth: for a start, there is noone to maintain the compile farm 18:54:58 <frosch123> i keeps on building binaries for deprecated distributions 18:55:04 <andythenorth> we have quite a lot of various web infrastructure eh? 18:55:08 <andythenorth> for a small group 18:55:53 <frosch123> it wasn't that small in the past 18:56:08 <frosch123> i think in 2008 there were > 10 active developers 18:56:24 <frosch123> most of them students 18:56:31 <andythenorth> classic 18:56:33 <Shoshonite> and now? 18:56:35 <andythenorth> oh we talked about this before 18:56:43 <andythenorth> Shoshonite: ~1 18:56:59 <Wolf01> <Shoshonite> and now? <- I can count them in one hand 18:57:02 <frosch123> Shoshonite: i think lordaro may be the only student in this channel who can code 18:57:23 <andythenorth> either they are doing other projects, or GFC drove them away from open source 18:57:33 <andythenorth> or we caught a wave who could remember original TTD from 1994 18:57:34 <Alberth> except no longer student :p 18:58:45 <Shoshonite> the implication being non-students have no time to code? I know I don't, or ability for that matter 18:59:07 * andythenorth wonders if the students also are working more now 18:59:09 <andythenorth> dunno 18:59:29 <andythenorth> I was looking at this today https://docs.plone.org/4/en/develop/plone-coredev/agreement.html 18:59:36 <andythenorth> “Patches: Historically we encouraged people to submit patches to the ticket collector. These tickets are usually ignored forever. " 18:59:39 <frosch123> Shoshonite: i started on ottd because i couldn't stand working all day on my thesis 18:59:45 <Wolf01> In Italy sure they are working more... evil students stealing my job 18:59:46 <andythenorth> sounds like familiar territory ^^ :D 18:59:52 <frosch123> so, thesis in the morning, ottd in the afternoon, irc in the evening 19:00:12 <frosch123> oh yeah, i were coding off-line and only came for patch review :o 19:00:35 <andythenorth> probably quite a focussed way to do it eh 19:01:09 *** FLHerne has joined #openttd 19:01:20 <andythenorth> Plone added a lot of bureacracy for improvements https://docs.plone.org/4/en/develop/plone-coredev/plips.html 19:01:24 <frosch123> after that i think i had a pretty constant though possibly low commit rate, until factorio appeared :p 19:01:26 <andythenorth> but then people rely on it to make money 19:02:01 <andythenorth> also frosch123 you added ~all the newgrf features I wanted :P 19:02:05 <andythenorth> there’s few ponies left 19:02:14 <Wolf01> Like NRT 19:02:21 <andythenorth> NRT is more than a pony :) 19:02:39 <andythenorth> NRT is a test of how we can change a core game mechanic :) 19:02:40 <Wolf01> Yeah, that's in andy's patchpack 19:02:44 <andythenorth> will we win, or will we fuck up>? 19:03:02 <frosch123> i always liked patchpacks 19:03:08 <Wolf01> It doesn't change anything that hasn't been changed before with railtypes 19:03:17 <andythenorth> I wondered about encouraging a fork or something 19:03:25 <frosch123> 15 years ago i played a lot with povray 19:03:30 <andythenorth> but then….fragmentation 19:03:37 <frosch123> there was this inofficial version "megapov" 19:03:56 <frosch123> which had all kind of weird features. forums talked a lot about them 19:04:19 <frosch123> me and my friend always wondered why they did not make it into the main povray 19:04:26 <frosch123> until we actually tried them out 19:04:43 <frosch123> wow, did they have lots of corner cases and downsided... 19:05:00 <andythenorth> the Bootstrap CSS framework has a really strong approach on contributions 19:05:01 <andythenorth> https://github.com/twbs/bootstrap/issues/11292 19:05:09 <andythenorth> (and a few comments down mdo comments again) 19:07:08 <andythenorth> “We don't aim to solve every problem—doing so would just add bloat to the framework for tons of other folks. I'm generally super hesitant to add anything these days only because there is already so much here. 19:07:08 <andythenorth> These kind of extensions are great add-ons to put in another repo on GitHub. Tell folks about, get feedback, gauge usage, and extend Bootstrap. We love that stuff.” 19:08:26 <frosch123> yep, my opinion on ottd is pretty much: the main branch is only for add-on apis 19:08:42 <frosch123> except that we have noone interested in ai and gs stuff :p 19:09:19 <andythenorth> if I _did_ do a patch pack, it would be a fork-and-dump 19:09:23 <andythenorth> I’d delete a bunch of things :P 19:09:33 <andythenorth> not going to find many internet fans with that approach 19:09:52 * andythenorth also has small problem of not being actual programmer 19:10:03 <peter1138> hi 19:10:06 <frosch123> oh, there were teenagers on the forums in the past: they claimed to first delete all of newgrf 19:10:21 <andythenorth> ? o_O 19:10:51 <frosch123> well, just the type of teenager who annuonce their big plans before coding one line 19:10:57 <andythenorth> ha 19:11:05 <frosch123> nothing wrong with that, just teenager stuff 19:11:08 <andythenorth> been there, done that 19:11:16 <andythenorth> lo peter1138 19:12:48 <milek7> gs api is too limited for any bigger modifications 19:13:27 <andythenorth> well then it’s c++, easy no :) 19:14:13 <frosch123> ottd does not have that engine <-> mod separation as modern games have 19:14:39 <frosch123> in modern games the main game itself is implemented with the same interfaces as for the mods 19:15:09 <frosch123> in ottd stuff has always been asymmetric: there is a base game in c++, and gs/ai/newgrf which modify that stuff in a completely different way 19:15:25 <andythenorth> eh well, migrating OpenTTD to that model would be....interesting 19:15:29 <andythenorth> also...challenging 19:15:30 <frosch123> which makes the add-ons very hard if they work against the c++ base 19:15:49 * andythenorth doesn’t play games 19:16:04 <andythenorth> how do games ensure MP safety with mods? 19:16:12 <frosch123> they don't :p 19:16:23 <andythenorth> also, based on my limited exposure to minecraft mods, they are broadly buggy as 19:16:31 <frosch123> factorio has a special section for desyncs with mods 19:16:39 <frosch123> *bug tracker section 19:16:50 <andythenorth> right 19:17:06 <andythenorth> hmm 19:17:26 <frosch123> other complex games like europa universalis 4 desync all the time 19:17:56 <frosch123> you can even tell by how the gui behaves in single player what is likely to cause desyncs 19:18:40 <frosch123> like there were exploits where you can do stuff by using a fast-clicker, which you were not allowed otherwise 19:18:59 <andythenorth> ok so seems there’s no obvious winning strategy here 19:18:59 <andythenorth> we found one winning strategy in my day job 19:18:59 <andythenorth> - make it as fast as possible to get new developers productive 19:19:09 <andythenorth> we focussed a lot of effort on that 19:19:12 <andythenorth> still haven’t won it 19:19:26 <frosch123> like: normally you are only allowed to press a button once, and then it is disabled for 5 minutes. if you could click fast enough (with an autoclicker) you could click it mutliple times and get multiple time the effect, before it disabled the button 19:20:34 <milek7> andythenorth: well, patching is much easier than working around limitations in gs api 19:21:05 <milek7> but then users cannot just download gs from bananas 19:22:20 <Alberth> patching should extend gs api, in that case,imho 19:22:45 <frosch123> Alberth: that only works if you do not fight ottd's core mechanics 19:23:12 <Alberth> and you don't have that in c++ ? 19:23:17 <frosch123> most gs want to remove city and station rating, which is just a very core mechanic of ottd 19:24:02 <andythenorth> most GS seem pretty uninspired 19:24:42 <Alberth> there isn't much power in gs, like milek says 19:25:00 <Alberth> pretty much NoAI + some extensions 19:25:19 * andythenorth can’t tell if we have a social problem, or an architecture problem :) 19:26:02 <andythenorth> but there are 147 patches in FS 19:26:06 <andythenorth> https://bugs.openttd.org/index.php?string=&project=1&search_name=&type%5B%5D=4&sev%5B%5D=&pri%5B%5D=&due%5B%5D=&reported%5B%5D=&cat%5B%5D=&status%5B%5D=open&percent%5B%5D=&opened=&dev=&closed=&duedatefrom=&duedateto=&changedfrom=&changedto=&openedfrom=&openedto=&closedfrom=&closedto=&do=index 19:26:33 <andythenorth> I am pretty happy just closing feature requests, especially if they conflict with published goals 19:26:38 <andythenorth> closing patches…dunno 19:26:50 <_dp_> town growth is pretty much the only "something else" in GS 19:27:05 <andythenorth> well there’s no control over industry 19:27:06 <andythenorth> or vehicles 19:27:07 <_dp_> that's probably why there are 10 cb GS and nearly nothing more 19:27:08 <andythenorth> so eh 19:27:50 <frosch123> andythenorth: did you play and of the cb gs? :p 19:28:01 <Alberth> 146 :p 19:28:25 <frosch123> i only played ncg and sv. all cb gs appeared incredible boring, just like the competitive servers 19:28:31 <frosch123> andythenorth: so yeah, it's a social problem 19:31:17 *** glx is now known as Guest2401 19:31:18 *** glx_ has joined #openttd 19:31:18 *** glx_ is now known as glx 19:31:18 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v glx 19:31:25 <_dp_> frosch123, boring? why? 19:31:50 <_dp_> when I'm playing cb it's very intense 19:32:32 <frosch123> well, i said multiple times. there multiple interest groups around ottd. the competitive guys are those i understand the least :) 19:32:43 <_dp_> xD 19:33:06 <andythenorth> frosch123: I tried city-builders a couple of times, but boring as all hell 19:33:42 <frosch123> andythenorth: gs feature requests are dominated by competitive players and citybuilders :) 19:34:10 <andythenorth> timetable feature requests are dominated by people making model train sets 19:34:31 <frosch123> the patches are as boring as the gameplay they are intended for 19:34:34 <_dp_> frosch123, ofc they are, you can't just go with a suggestions gs like BB on a competitive server 19:35:08 <_dp_> it needs to have some influence over the gameplay 19:35:38 <frosch123> why don't you just play starcraft :p 19:35:43 <andythenorth> only 145 patches left :) 19:35:56 <_dp_> are there trains in starcraft?) 19:36:02 <_dp_> i like trains :p 19:36:33 <andythenorth> _dp_ I don’t think it’s an argument that cb shouldn’t exist :) 19:37:04 <frosch123> factorio doesn't have competitive multiplayer 19:37:13 <frosch123> instead they go for competitive speedruns 19:37:21 *** Guest2401 has quit IRC 19:37:24 <Wolf01> It does, you can organize players in forces 19:37:28 <andythenorth> a lot of the MP stuff in FS I feel really lost with :) 19:37:33 <andythenorth> I just don’t know enough 19:37:34 <Wolf01> Turrets attack other forces 19:37:38 <frosch123> which looks insane if you see it first. but would be incredible boring to me 19:37:40 <_dp_> competitive openttd isn't that much different from a speedrun 19:38:04 <frosch123> _dp_: do compeitive ottd players repeat building the same network on the same map 19:38:09 <frosch123> just trying to beat the previous time? 19:38:12 <Wolf01> OTTD is a speedrun anyway 19:38:28 <andythenorth> speedrun = Doom for me 19:38:38 <andythenorth> what’s a speedrun in OTTD context? o_O :P 19:38:41 <_dp_> frosch123, not exactly the same but overall strategy is so refined that it usually stays the same 19:38:55 <_dp_> what to transport, when and on what distance 19:39:01 <peter1138> and i just build stuff while trying to make it look nice :p 19:39:07 <andythenorth> +1 19:39:15 <frosch123> well, factorio speed runs are about palying the exact same map, and memorizing the building plan of two hours 19:39:23 <frosch123> and not mess up by putting something off by one tile 19:39:24 <andythenorth> in fact, I make things look ugly just to troll coop 19:40:21 <frosch123> andythenorth: i guess speed runs in ottd fail because the player actions affect the random seed and then change the game progression 19:40:26 <_dp_> frosch123, I though about letting players replay same maps in openttd, but it's not that important since map doesn't matter much 19:40:42 <andythenorth> actually my 7 year old has asked us to put the game seed back in map gen window :P 19:40:51 <andythenorth> he seems to have learnt about seeds from minecraft or something 19:40:55 <frosch123> but if you disable all random production changes and industry spanws, you can make a ottd speed run by playing a fixed map and trying to reach 1M pounds in the fastest time 19:41:28 <V453000> do you even automate 19:41:31 <frosch123> people will try to figure out the best order in which to build routes and repeat that over again 19:41:57 <frosch123> V453000: can you imagine building the exact same factorio factory twice? 19:42:13 <andythenorth> what if…? 19:42:26 <andythenorth> 1. ...what if we moved it all to github and pull requests? 19:42:40 <andythenorth> 2. ….what if we just rejected all patches not touched for 12 months? 19:42:41 <_dp_> frosch123, don't think production is enough, there is way too much random in openttd 19:42:43 <frosch123> andythenorth: you can use the seed on the console 19:42:51 <andythenorth> frosch123: saw that in a FS today :) 19:43:03 <V453000> yeah speedrunners do it, now they even gave it a cherry on top by literally blueprinting the whole factory in 1 blueprint and slapping it down at the beginning ... then it's just like a colouring book 19:43:04 <andythenorth> https://bugs.openttd.org/task/6604 19:43:22 <Alberth> vs2012 still a relevant thing? 19:43:33 <andythenorth> deprecate old crap :P 19:44:06 <frosch123> V453000: oh, that sounds like there should be a group talking about the good old times where you had to remember the layout 19:44:46 <V453000> eh not entirely, both approaches are quite dumb 19:44:56 <frosch123> Alberth: no idea what the compile farm runs 19:44:57 <V453000> but the newer just makes sure it's dumb 19:44:59 <frosch123> could be 2012 19:45:03 <Alberth> ok 19:45:21 <_dp_> btw, there is actially a bit of an issue with cb in openttd that town growth is so random that you get about +-10% population for the same growth speed even with a good layouts 19:45:29 <andythenorth> one goal I would change, if I was BDFL https://wiki.openttd.org/Objectives 19:45:35 <V453000> I don't really see why would you even try to build the factory youself, you can just make a script which does it for you, and just invent the strategy for the script 19:45:49 <andythenorth> addendum to support for minor platforms: not for dead ones 19:46:03 <andythenorth> I know it’s economically discriminatory 19:46:28 * andythenorth checks his privilege 19:46:41 <frosch123> V453000: i like the coloring-book analogy 19:46:53 <andythenorth> is it mindfulness colouring? 19:47:53 <V453000> yeah, no 19:48:19 <V453000> of course you have to think about some stuff like do I have XY yet, but yeah 19:48:36 <V453000> still there is something to the execution, like if you get the 4th mining drill before or after 19479th transport belt, but ... 19:48:47 <V453000> iterating it with AI would be so much simpler and better result 19:48:59 <andythenorth> this is the most bonkers FS I left open https://bugs.openttd.org/task/5147 19:49:00 <V453000> if computers can do something better then they should do it 19:49:09 <andythenorth> does it have the record for comment counts? 19:49:17 <milek7> some time ago i made "city-network builder" gs 19:49:23 <milek7> which tried to compute town growth on basis of metric estimating how well-connected it is with other towns 19:49:33 <andythenorth> neat ikdea 19:49:35 <Wolf01> https://wiki.openttd.org/FAQ_development#What_are_the_goals_of_the_offical_branch.3F <- we already fucked up on this one 19:49:36 <andythenorth> -k 19:49:50 <andythenorth> Wolf01: ? 19:50:02 <Wolf01> In contrast, extending or altering the gameplay of the base game is not encouraged. 19:51:38 <frosch123> Wolf01: i wrote that only this year, so it's mostly my opinion. but noone complained when i posted it here 19:51:51 *** sla_ro|master has quit IRC 19:52:25 <andythenorth> it’s pretty sound imho 19:52:45 <Alberth> there are a few nice patches in there 19:53:57 <andythenorth> quite a few seemed like they met the goals 19:54:04 <andythenorth> dunno if the patches are crap or not though 19:54:08 <_dp_> then why do even need a clone of a game? if you want a base game play a base game 19:54:50 <andythenorth> no newgrf in base game :D 19:55:12 <andythenorth> tbf, many other things missing too :) 19:55:16 <frosch123> the original game was already unplayable when i tried last in 2010(?) 19:55:17 <V453000> one thing I saw on novapolis or where ever that was really nice were the extra tile highlights like for station catchment areas etc 19:55:21 <LordAro> frosch123: i am no longer a student :) 19:55:29 <frosch123> the interface did not stand the time 19:55:29 <LordAro> graduated a month ago :) 19:55:32 <_dp_> V453000, still in citymania client ;) 19:55:38 <V453000> ye 19:55:40 <frosch123> LordAro: nice :) 19:55:41 <V453000> I probably saw it in both 19:56:04 <frosch123> V453000: yes, they are on my todo list, but meh 19:56:15 <andythenorth> I liked this one https://bugs.openttd.org/task/385 19:56:23 <_dp_> they kinda poorly implemented though 19:56:25 <frosch123> none of the patches convinced me, so i probably have to do it myself 19:56:45 <V453000> :D 19:56:46 <V453000> well 19:57:16 <V453000> if someone gave me new brix sprites I probably wouldn't add them either 19:57:47 <Alberth> wait until you meet your future self :p 19:57:58 <frosch123> he, yeah, that's the nice thing about decentral stuff :) just fork your own stuff 19:58:09 <LordAro> andythenorth liked a bug report? :o 19:58:29 <Alberth> patch :) 19:58:45 <andythenorth> if we closed all patch tickets that haven’t been edited for 5 years 19:58:48 <andythenorth> 62 would be gone 19:58:50 * andythenorth is tempted 19:59:04 <frosch123> andythenorth: i remember trolling the forums by telling them that voting on fs it to vote for closure 19:59:19 <frosch123> s/closure/reject/ 19:59:51 <frosch123> andythenorth: some of them are in patchpacks 19:59:59 *** supermop has joined #openttd 20:00:06 <andythenorth> if the patch queue was kept very small, there might be more fun in reviewing, because the game is to keep it small 20:00:27 <andythenorth> also, on balance many people appreciate at least an answer even if it’s ‘no’ 20:00:34 <andythenorth> silence is demotivating 20:01:15 <frosch123> well, most patches fail on basic stuff like indenting 20:01:23 <frosch123> it''s hopeless to explain that to people 20:01:43 <andythenorth> ach, I’m going to close 62 20:01:44 <frosch123> when i reviewed a patch, it usually ended up with rewriting it 20:01:48 <andythenorth> it can’t be worse than current 20:01:54 <andythenorth> how much more offense can I cause? 20:02:01 <andythenorth> and you can all blame me if kittens die :P 20:02:16 <frosch123> would be interesting if cirdan complains :) 20:02:35 <andythenorth> I’ll check them first in case I’m being really stupid 20:02:37 <frosch123> they ignored my patch for 10 years and then closed it because of statistics 20:03:12 <andythenorth> High sea level? https://bugs.openttd.org/task/983 20:03:45 <Wolf01> <frosch123> it''s hopeless to explain that to people <- that's why IDEs should have a configurable code layout settings per project 20:04:01 <frosch123> i doubt there will be a good solution to tsunami flooding 20:04:14 <andythenorth> no mass closure option? :( 20:04:20 <andythenorth> I don’t want to blame the technology 20:04:23 <frosch123> Wolf01: people even fail with indenting when using ides which auto-indent 20:04:33 <andythenorth> but FS is only slightly better than trac :P 20:04:34 <frosch123> i don't know how, but i have seen it multiple times at work 20:04:46 <andythenorth> which is the worst ticket system I ever used, including the one we wrote in house 20:05:12 <frosch123> fs is better than those e-mail based systems like bugzilla 20:06:25 <_dp_> frosch123, it's very easy to miss indentation when using tabs 20:06:41 <_dp_> and openttd is like the only project I know that uses tabs 20:06:43 *** cHawk has quit IRC 20:06:49 <milek7> tabs are only sane option 20:06:59 <Alberth> fix your editor to show tabs vs spaces, and trailing white-space 20:07:22 <frosch123> i know, tabs are complicated 20:07:31 <frosch123> spaces are easier to explain to people 20:08:08 <frosch123> but in the end there is no point in argueing over "const int* a", "const int *a" and "int const *a" 20:08:41 <frosch123> the consistency matters more than some correctness 20:10:22 <andythenorth> incoming FS spam :P 20:11:08 <milek7> with tabs everybody can have different tab length set in their editor 20:11:13 <milek7> and with spaces this is impossible 20:11:31 <frosch123> milek7: yes, but that assumes that people are smart enough to understand spaces vs tabs 20:11:43 <frosch123> spaces are easier to teach to the average developer 20:12:03 <_dp_> milek7, for that to work you should only have tab indents and never mix tab+spaces 20:12:12 <_dp_> milek7, so no indent to brackets and such 20:12:18 <Wolf01> milek7, and maybe breaking those wonderful ascii art comments to explain things in the code? 20:12:33 <Wolf01> Also you may have a lot of mixed tabs+spaces 20:12:42 <Wolf01> Best is use only spaces 20:12:50 <peter1138> tabs are literally designed for aligning... 20:13:07 <milek7> _dp_: to indent to brackets you do tabs do indentation level, and then spaces to match with braces 20:13:27 <_dp_> milek7, yeah, and if someone changes tab size it all falls apart 20:13:30 <milek7> no 20:13:39 <andythenorth> are we really having a tabs vs spaces debate? :o 20:13:42 <peter1138> yes 20:13:45 <peter1138> it's important 20:13:47 <andythenorth> someone call the stereotype police :P 20:13:48 <peter1138> it's on the internet 20:13:57 <andythenorth> python vs php vs perl next? 20:14:03 <milek7> tab size only changes tabs, which should be used for identation level 20:14:04 <frosch123> _dp_: tabs do indeed work when done correctly. but as is just being proven here. milek7 will need 4 hours to explain it to someone else 20:14:23 <frosch123> all spaces, fixed indent is dead easy in comparison 20:15:10 <_dp_> frosch123, milek7 for one indentation mb, but if there are nested ones no, or stuff like assigment aligning when it's more than one tab it breaks 20:16:15 <andythenorth> ach 20:16:21 <andythenorth> semaphore versus colour signals 20:16:25 <andythenorth> that’s a feature that should have died :P 20:16:55 <frosch123> i like the signal gui on fs, whcih adds a separate toggle for semaphore/light 20:17:01 <frosch123> instead of two full rows 20:17:23 <andythenorth> +1 20:17:46 <_dp_> and I'd like a setting to completely remove semaphores from the game xD 20:17:50 <Wolf01> I would have liked a feature which allowed to convert all the semaphores to light signals, maybe one for railtypes too, maybe even one which plays for me 20:17:53 <LordAro> _dp_: tabs for indentation, spaces for alignment 20:17:55 <LordAro> it's quite easy 20:18:11 <andythenorth> Wolf01: there are (were) a few requests for mass converting semaphore -> light 20:18:13 <andythenorth> maybe 3 or so 20:18:17 <frosch123> LordAro: ottd failed at it :p 20:18:25 <andythenorth> I rejected a bunch of them 20:18:42 <andythenorth> frosch123: is this actually legit? About to close it… https://bugs.openttd.org/task/3044 20:19:01 <andythenorth> also seems harmless and possibly even useful? https://bugs.openttd.org/task/3117 20:19:15 *** Progman has quit IRC 20:20:20 <_dp_> moar hotkeys! 20:21:15 <_dp_> this one doesn't seem to be particularly useful though, there is hardly anyone to talk with on servers nowdays :/ 20:21:57 *** Alberth has left #openttd 20:22:36 <V453000> cats cats cats 20:24:10 <andythenorth> brix brix brix 20:25:09 <_dp_> funny thing is I'm a bit reluctant to add more hotkeys to citymania client nowdays simply because there are so freaking many of them already xD 20:25:24 <_dp_> out of keys on keyboard :/ 20:25:44 <peter1138> support joystick buttons 20:26:24 <_dp_> yeah, would be awesome actually 20:26:28 <frosch123> we need ribbons 20:26:29 <_dp_> and dehardcode some keys 20:28:00 <andythenorth> ribbons :D 20:28:47 <V453000> andythenorth: if I understand correctly , the part of pixa which adds palette does a deepcopy of a sample PNG just for palette, and pastes it by putpalette to your desired PNG? 20:29:03 <andythenorth> words 20:29:05 <andythenorth> ach 20:29:07 <V453000> anus 20:29:15 <andythenorth> probably 20:29:24 <andythenorth> deepcopy because sometimes PIL is changing stuff otherwise 20:29:26 <andythenorth> because python 20:29:38 <V453000> whatever I just do the same :) 20:29:43 <andythenorth> I’d have to go read it :P 20:29:45 <V453000> if it works, works 20:29:50 * andythenorth is having fun closing tickets 20:30:05 <V453000> I finally have everything solved, it outputs one big file as it should 20:30:08 <V453000> just not paletted yet 20:31:30 * andythenorth wishes timetables weren’t 20:31:43 <andythenorth> they attract a particular level of detailed request 20:32:25 *** Progman has joined #openttd 20:34:24 *** Progman has quit IRC 20:36:45 <V453000> hm 20:36:56 <V453000> ValueError: illegal image mode 20:37:35 <andythenorth> 82 patches in FS :) 20:37:38 <andythenorth> https://bugs.openttd.org/index.php?string=&project=1&search_name=&type%5B%5D=4&sev%5B%5D=&pri%5B%5D=&due%5B%5D=&reported%5B%5D=&cat%5B%5D=&status%5B%5D=open&percent%5B%5D=&opened=&dev=&closed=&duedatefrom=&duedateto=&changedfrom=&changedto=&openedfrom=&openedto=&closedfrom=&closedto=&do=index 20:37:55 <andythenorth> I wonder how many could be closed as ‘basically, this is bollocks’ :) 20:39:42 <Wolf01> I think you could spare time by wiping out the database and start fresh 20:40:00 * _dp_ backups his patches 20:40:15 <frosch123> then you would break my bookmarks 20:40:33 <frosch123> which would destroy my dreams of ever making the list shorter 20:40:41 <andythenorth> frosch123: we could write a FS clone that just does http redirects to something else :P 20:41:02 <andythenorth> I have access to a python url redirection framework for that :P 20:41:08 <frosch123> also, old fs tasks are actually useful 20:41:23 <frosch123> sometimes you can only figure out the meaning of a commit by reading the linked fs task 20:41:40 <andythenorth> there is that 20:41:54 <andythenorth> also FS rewards masochism 20:42:05 <andythenorth> it’s hard to use, so it’s like doing some kind of exercise :P 20:42:13 <andythenorth> btw, it’s also broken :P 20:42:22 <andythenorth> I can’t reopen any tasks :P 20:42:25 <frosch123> did you crash it again? 20:42:28 <andythenorth> yup 20:42:38 <andythenorth> doesn’t like percentage complete being null 20:42:45 <andythenorth> logs are probably showing my errors 20:46:09 <Zuu> A patch I forgot that I have written shown up in my inbox :-) 20:46:32 <andythenorth> I have given that experience to about 50 people tonight :) 20:46:35 <Zuu> Ctrl+Tab focus cycling :-) 20:46:37 <andythenorth> it’s like being Bad Santa 20:47:32 *** Progman has joined #openttd 20:47:33 *** bwn has quit IRC 20:47:33 <andythenorth> https://bugs.openttd.org/task/5872 why? 20:47:35 * Wolf01 is going to vent his frustrations on TF 20:48:04 <Zuu> TF as in TransportFever? 20:48:13 <Wolf01> Yes 20:49:03 <Zuu> Oh.. I stopped playing it long ago. It was rewarding but frustrating. You had to learn what things to just accept and not try to fix. 20:49:39 <_dp_> andythenorth, isn't it still playable while doing threaded autosave? 20:49:52 <Zuu> The patches/updates made it less frustrating though compared to when it came out. 20:50:09 <andythenorth> _dp_: dunno, test it? :) 20:50:13 <andythenorth> and comment on the issue? o_O 20:50:30 <_dp_> andythenorth, I don't even sp, no idea how autosave works :p 20:51:55 *** cHawk has joined #openttd 20:52:31 <V453000> well it's creative https://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/8550/BRIDGES_0000_8bpp_combined.png 20:52:48 <andythenorth> so a patch needs to comply with: 20:52:51 <andythenorth> - MP safety 20:52:55 <andythenorth> - savegame safety 20:53:06 <andythenorth> - code style 20:53:08 <andythenorth> - performance 20:53:11 <V453000> apparently pasting a RGBA image into a "L" image, whatever that is, does not give what I would expect :D got to handle it differently 20:53:19 <andythenorth> - provide / not break APIs 20:53:27 <andythenorth> - ‘is it a good idea' 20:54:28 <andythenorth> and it need play-tested for bugs 20:54:50 <frosch123> nah, the letter is not needed 20:54:54 <frosch123> it has never worked 20:55:27 <andythenorth> V453000: what are you trying to do? Apply the palette? o_O 20:55:46 <V453000> I actually managed to apply it, that image is index and seems like it has the right palette from deepcopy 20:56:05 <V453000> it's just that when I paste the image into the "L" image, I guess that's where colours go fucked 20:56:33 <andythenorth> it will be getting palette translated somehow 20:56:36 <V453000> https://paste.openttdcoop.org/pweg4msy2 20:56:41 <andythenorth> there’s always crap with this job 20:56:45 <V453000> well yeah I guess that's what is happening 20:56:52 <V453000> I'm thinking I can do it easier 20:57:12 <V453000> and have the picture which goes into the combiner already be in index 20:57:23 <V453000> I know the index when comparing it to the 32bpp after all 20:57:31 <V453000> so it should be just slight tweak to the comparer function 20:58:02 <V453000> and then paste has a masking option so I can just set which area to copy, which I know from the thread splitting parameters 20:59:02 <andythenorth> V453000: I am too brain-fried tonight to look more :) 20:59:27 <V453000> I -think- that it will work, I just need to do it 20:59:35 <V453000> but brain is borkd too 20:59:47 <V453000> probably good time to gtfo 21:00:10 <V453000> did progress, main thing works 21:02:37 *** Thanark_ has quit IRC 21:02:55 *** Thanark has joined #openttd 21:03:04 *** bwn has joined #openttd 21:05:10 *** frosch123 has quit IRC 21:05:25 <V453000> ._. 21:05:30 <V453000> index 3 gives me alpha pink 21:05:33 <V453000> index 1 too 21:05:37 <V453000> index 128 seems to work 21:05:38 <V453000> XD 21:06:15 <V453000> maybe it's inverse 21:07:23 <V453000> it isn't 21:07:24 <V453000> hmmm 21:07:25 <andythenorth> :) 21:07:43 <andythenorth> should I close more FS? o_O 21:07:50 <andythenorth> later it gets, worse my judgement :P 21:08:19 <peter1138> more whisky? 21:08:59 <andythenorth> moar 21:09:14 <andythenorth> just 80 patches to review now eh peter1138 :D 21:09:20 <andythenorth> be done by Wednesday probs 21:09:30 <_dp_> andythenorth, have you considered changing some bugs to confirmed instead? ;) 21:09:40 <andythenorth> I did confirm one :P 21:09:45 <Shoshonite> judgement? I had envissioned a wack-a-mole type secnario! 21:09:47 <andythenorth> patch reviews 21:09:52 *** Zuu has quit IRC 21:09:56 <andythenorth> ‘Closed: outdated against trunk' 21:10:03 <andythenorth> ‘Closed: doesn’t compile’ 21:10:14 <andythenorth> ‘Closed: ignores basic coding style guidelines' 21:10:21 <andythenorth> ‘Closed: clown shoes' 21:10:32 <andythenorth> :P 21:11:05 <V453000> ok 21:11:14 *** Progman has quit IRC 21:11:17 <V453000> index 1-9 gives me pure pink 21:11:20 <V453000> wtf. :D 21:11:31 <andythenorth> your palette got sorted somewhere? o_O 21:11:32 <_dp_> 'Closed: doesn't have a patch' 21:11:40 <_dp_> with this should be enough to close them all :p 21:11:49 <V453000> I just and only deepcopy from my nuts image 21:11:58 <V453000> and I set an index manually 21:12:00 <V453000> no sorting 21:12:13 *** roidal has quit IRC 21:12:19 <V453000> currently just trying flat singlecolor images to see how indexes work 21:12:25 <andythenorth> fuck me V453000 now I have to go read code :P 21:12:34 <andythenorth> and I haven’t had ‘stay awake’ coffeee 21:12:46 <V453000> index 0 works too ._. 21:13:21 *** Progman has joined #openttd 21:13:24 <andythenorth> wtf 21:13:53 <andythenorth> so I get a palette around here. http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/road-hog/repository/entry/src/graphics_processor/pipelines.py#L10 21:14:03 <andythenorth> which is from this http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/road-hog/repository/entry/palette_key.png 21:14:24 <andythenorth> which is itself auto-generated from a palette, but eh :P 21:14:32 <andythenorth> clever that eh? 21:14:36 <andythenorth> can’t fuck that one up 21:14:37 <andythenorth> much 21:15:00 <V453000> XD 21:15:17 <V453000> I will try with this one but if it works in NUTS then wtf :) 21:15:35 *** APTX_ has joined #openttd 21:15:37 <V453000> I wonder if some nuts pictures could have windows palette 21:15:45 <V453000> but that sounds awfully unlikely 21:15:51 <andythenorth> then what’s this http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/road-hog/repository/entry/src/graphics_processor/pipelines.py#L204 21:15:57 <andythenorth> create an image with P 21:16:05 <andythenorth> then put the palette in it 21:16:12 <andythenorth> then paste stuff into it 21:16:17 <V453000> yeah that's the same as what I do 21:16:19 <V453000> pretty exactly 21:16:46 <andythenorth> what’s that “L” thing? 21:16:50 * andythenorth looks in PIL docs 21:16:59 <V453000> some palette colour mode 21:17:06 <V453000> like RGB, RGBA, P, there is L 21:17:08 <V453000> what exactly idk 21:17:38 <andythenorth> it’s luminance 21:17:52 <Shoshonite> I take someone elses png and copy my stuff into it, saves learning, because that hurts 21:18:07 <andythenorth> V453000: try P 21:18:15 <V453000> yeah 21:18:21 <Shoshonite> thats what you are talking about right? 21:18:23 <andythenorth> and put the palette in before paste 21:18:43 *** APTX has quit IRC 21:18:46 <andythenorth> V453000: if you paste into image with wrong palette, your paste will get transposed 21:18:50 <andythenorth> iirc 21:19:37 <andythenorth> Shoshonite: not exactly 21:19:40 <V453000> I'll just not paste RGBA, I will make a new "P" or "L" image from the comparer, I'm just wtf about why is grayscale fucked 21:20:27 <V453000> tried to output all indexes with L https://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/8551/test-wtf.png 21:20:38 <andythenorth> teeny tiny 21:20:48 <V453000> trying P https://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/8552/BRIDGES_0000_8bpp_combined.png 21:21:01 <V453000> now I need to try your palette file but this looks like something else is fucked 21:21:20 <V453000> hm 21:21:26 <andythenorth> are you pasting the alpha channel or something? 21:21:42 <V453000> hm 21:21:43 <V453000> not sure 21:21:54 <V453000> I guess I do 21:22:01 <V453000> but still, why would it replace blacks 21:22:31 <andythenorth> err 21:22:39 <andythenorth> L14 defines combined_image 21:22:44 <andythenorth> but L18 will modify it 21:22:46 <andythenorth> intended? 21:23:01 <andythenorth> it’s an alpha composite I guess 21:23:26 <V453000> yeah alpha pasting 21:23:32 <V453000> just puts them together 21:24:05 <andythenorth> what happens if you dump them to disk during each stage of the loop (with a different filename) 21:24:10 <andythenorth> do they look right? 21:24:25 <andythenorth> PIL is funny about reassigning an image sometimes 21:24:47 <andythenorth> “probably fine”, but I’d check that with Image.show() if I was doing it here 21:24:50 <V453000> should try 21:25:01 *** Gja has quit IRC 21:25:51 <V453000> regardless your palette fixes the beginning indexes 21:26:01 <V453000> but as you say, the things get transposed 21:26:54 *** Progman has quit IRC 21:27:08 <V453000> https://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/8553/BRIDGES_0000_8bpp_combined-at-least-correct-palette.png 21:27:38 <andythenorth> yarp 21:29:11 <V453000> image before putting palette and pasting looks right 21:29:30 <V453000> guess I try pasting first and putting palette later, outputting after paste 21:30:35 <V453000> ok 21:30:53 <V453000> apparently the L is literally just luminance (duh), so it converts it to grayscale 21:31:03 <V453000> or something like that 21:31:11 <V453000> and then the palette somehow takes the brightness as index 21:31:12 <V453000> I guess 21:31:33 <V453000> https://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/8554/BRIDGES_0000_8bpp_before_palette.png 21:33:51 <andythenorth> just ship that 21:33:53 <V453000> I will try to rewrite the comparer to output indexed pictures which I can just combine using a mask, it makes too much sense not to do it 21:33:56 <V453000> haha 21:33:58 <andythenorth> looks great in gray 21:35:00 <V453000> well, investigation was interesting, progress was done, using correct palette from you helps a ton XD 21:35:06 <V453000> thank you, such bed 21:37:47 * andythenorth also 21:38:04 <andythenorth> Shoshonite: palettes are pretty easy ;) 21:39:26 <V453000> admittedly I did the same when I was doing NUTS 21:39:28 *** andythenorth has quit IRC 21:39:43 <V453000> was always more sure that it will work rather than applying the palette again for insecurity 21:39:50 <V453000> also my NUTS files usually already include the swatches :) 21:39:53 <V453000> nigth 21:39:55 <V453000> night 21:39:56 <V453000> gg 22:21:01 *** mescalito has quit IRC 22:28:00 *** HerzogDeXtEr has quit IRC 22:37:33 *** Wormnest_ has quit IRC 22:49:11 *** debdog has quit IRC 22:52:45 *** debdog has joined #openttd 23:20:41 *** Geth has quit IRC 23:33:04 <Wolf01> Ha, I modded it too much, daylength x4 + realistic capacity + production x4 and now I have piles of shit everywhere 23:35:13 *** FLHerne has quit IRC 23:47:51 <Wolf01> 'night 23:47:54 *** Wolf01 has quit IRC