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Last step should always be photoshop 09:04:15 *** FLHerne has quit IRC 09:04:40 *** FLHerne has joined #openttd 09:06:01 *** synchris has quit IRC 09:18:52 *** Wolf01 has joined #openttd 09:20:16 <Wolf01> o/ 09:26:45 <Wolf01> I should buy a new router, 9 classes of QoS rules aren't enough :( 09:26:57 <Wolf01> I think I'll buy a firewall 09:29:32 <__ln__> can you even buy a router that isn't also a firewall? 09:29:53 <Wolf01> The firewall part on routers is usually limited 09:30:24 <Wolf01> Even the NAT on my router allows just 10 services 09:33:38 *** sla_ro|master has quit IRC 09:34:51 *** mindlesstux has quit IRC 09:35:21 *** mindlesstux has joined #openttd 09:36:28 *** sla_ro|master has joined #openttd 09:36:53 <peter1138> Depends if it's a shit router or not. 09:37:22 <peter1138> Also why do you need so much QoS. 09:38:14 <Wolf01> Limit bandwidth used by every device to allow at least a 15% to be used by others 09:40:03 <peter1138> So you have 6.666 devices? 09:40:59 <Wolf01> No, 2 classes for every device, Up/Down have a different class and they are shared 09:42:29 <Wolf01> I have 5 devices: 10 classes, max 9 09:46:46 <Wolf01> I grouped the wifi devices using the mask to save 3 classes to be used for specific services device-independent like VOIP (2 classes), I now have 1 class left 09:49:51 <__ln__> does your shitty router support flashing OpenWRT on it? 09:50:09 <Wolf01> No, also I don't think there's openwrt with adsl module 09:50:35 <__ln__> hmm, keep adsl and router as separate devices and you'll have more choice 09:51:05 <Wolf01> Eh that's why I want to buy a firewall 09:52:02 <__ln__> i have https://www.ubnt.com/edgemax/edgerouter-lite/ and it's pretty nice 09:53:16 <Wolf01> I considered ubiquity 09:57:02 <__ln__> in many ways it's a professional product, but in the price range that a consumer would pay 10:01:02 <Wolf01> I have a linksys WRT54G, but it's just for the living room, the entire network relies on the adsl modem router 10:03:23 <Wolf01> Clearly the WRT54G has dd-wrt installed because I needed it to split the wifi, I considered to install openwrt but the configuration of the split was a bit tricky, and I don't want to touch something which works fine 10:04:16 <Wolf01> But if I'll move all the network stuff to the living room I could use that as main gateway 10:04:23 <__ln__> is it a WRT54GL? 10:04:52 <__ln__> well, probably if you installed dd-wrt on it. 10:07:53 <Wolf01> The only problem I have is that if I disable the dhcp server on the adsl router the WRT54G doesn't supply the dhcp to the lan, only to wifi 10:08:07 <__ln__> unfortunately any modern version of OpenWRT doesn't fit into WRT54GL's rom. 10:09:04 <Wolf01> Yes, I read the warnings, and it already has 84% of memory full with dd-wrt 10:09:26 <Wolf01> 16MB aren't really much :P 10:11:08 <Wolf01> Also I remember I had to stick to an exact version of dd-wrt because others have huge problems with the WRT54G/GL/GS devices 10:24:05 *** Wormnest has joined #openttd 10:27:59 <peter1138> Gonna get myself a couple of wAP ACs I think. 10:29:26 *** frosch123 has joined #openttd 10:29:31 <Wolf01> Quak 10:30:20 <frosch123> moi 10:42:21 <Wolf01> https://imgur.com/a/4hRQI I think it rendered fine 10:44:35 *** Gja has joined #openttd 11:09:09 <Wolf01> BBL 11:23:08 <andythenorth> such Horse 12:10:08 *** roidal has joined #openttd 12:30:19 *** orudge` has quit IRC 12:30:23 *** orudge` has joined #openttd 12:30:24 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o orudge` 12:52:39 *** chomwitt has joined #openttd 13:19:02 *** andythenorth has quit IRC 13:42:20 *** orudge` has quit IRC 13:42:24 *** orudge` has joined #openttd 13:42:24 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o orudge` 13:52:50 *** Cubey has quit IRC 14:07:21 *** Biolunar_ has quit IRC 14:40:14 *** Alberth has joined #openttd 14:40:14 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o Alberth 14:48:04 *** mindlesstux has quit IRC 14:48:39 *** mindlesstux has joined #openttd 14:53:18 *** Flygon has quit IRC 15:23:45 *** tokai has joined #openttd 15:23:45 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai 15:30:37 *** tokai|noir has quit IRC 16:19:26 *** Alberth has left #openttd 16:26:50 *** Gja has quit IRC 16:28:26 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd 16:32:03 <andythenorth> o/ 16:32:13 <supermop_home> yo 16:32:31 <supermop_home> roll up doors for cargo trams, or sliding box car doors? 16:33:13 <andythenorth> varies by generation 16:33:21 <supermop_home> 70s 16:33:25 <andythenorth> sliding 16:33:29 <supermop_home> 80s? 16:33:35 <andythenorth> roller 16:33:39 <supermop_home> 60s? 16:33:46 <andythenorth> sliding, chunky 16:33:55 <supermop_home> canvas sides? 16:34:00 <andythenorth> maybe 16:38:05 <supermop_home> http://www.railpage.org.au/tram/images/work11w.jpg 16:38:14 <supermop_home> ding ding 16:38:28 <supermop_home> panto+pole 16:54:50 *** sla_ro|master has quit IRC 16:56:35 *** sla_ro|master has joined #openttd 16:59:32 *** glx has joined #openttd 16:59:32 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v glx 17:05:13 <andythenorth> anyone help me improve Iron Horse makefile? 17:05:21 <andythenorth> currently I have to use ‘make clean && make install’ every time 17:05:29 <andythenorth> this negates any caching benefit 17:05:39 <andythenorth> but otherwise it doesn’t see changes 17:05:55 <andythenorth> http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/iron-horse/repository/entry/Makefile 17:07:20 <andythenorth> - lang changes aren’t detected 17:08:26 <andythenorth> - graphics changes aren’t detected 17:09:34 <andythenorth> - changes to .py source files that affect nml output are detected 17:09:36 <frosch123> fixing makefiles always means rewriting them :p 17:10:15 <frosch123> it easier to rewrite them with your own tricks and looking up whether the rules of someone else work 17:10:37 <frosch123> in this case: directories as targets make no sense in my book, but maybe there is some hidden make feature 17:10:39 <andythenorth> these are rewritten ;) 17:10:48 <andythenorth> I rewrote them :P 17:11:16 <frosch123> s/and/than/ 17:11:17 <andythenorth> - changes to .py source that affects graphics aren’t detected 17:12:04 *** Gja has joined #openttd 17:13:47 <andythenorth> last time I tried to fix this I made some kind of recursion :P 17:14:49 <glx> make works on file targets, not dirs I think 17:16:51 <glx> anyway you don't seem to add deps for lang dir, so make will never be triggered without cleaning 17:17:06 <glx> same for graphics 17:19:02 <andythenorth> ok 17:19:09 <andythenorth> so how do I do that? ;) 17:19:22 * andythenorth has read the make docs twice, but never makes any sense 17:20:10 <andythenorth> why does changing png need the nml rebuilt? 17:20:15 * andythenorth is confused 17:22:20 <andythenorth> unrelated to that, doesn’t L81 cause the graphics to be built when the grf is built? 17:22:20 <andythenorth> http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/iron-horse/repository/entry/Makefile#L81 17:22:38 <glx> because iron-horse.nml depends on .py .pynml .pt .png .lng 17:22:39 <andythenorth> that should build graphics, lang, docs, nml 17:22:59 <andythenorth> it only builds nml unless I use clean 17:23:02 <glx> as $SOURCE tells it 17:23:34 <andythenorth> so I should remove .png from L18 17:24:21 <andythenorth> one fix down 17:24:21 <glx> you should split the source list and group by target 17:24:25 *** WegeClausen has joined #openttd 17:24:29 <andythenorth> right 17:24:43 <WegeClausen> hi where is the setting to see the boarders of a city 17:24:43 <andythenorth> NML_SOURCES, GRAPHICS_SOURCES etc 17:24:51 <glx> line 78 tells nml file depends on all source 17:25:10 <glx> but line 69 and 72 depends on nothing 17:25:16 <andythenorth> but doesn’t L81 tell to always build graphics, docs etc? 17:25:48 <glx> only if they don't exist 17:25:57 <andythenorth> righty 17:26:00 <glx> as they have no deps 17:26:14 <andythenorth> right 17:26:25 <andythenorth> one day understanding will arrive 17:26:47 <andythenorth> make is some kind of symbol chaining :P 17:27:32 <glx> writing deps is a pain :) 17:28:49 <andythenorth> probably SOURCES doesn’t need to be a var 17:29:15 <glx> it can 17:30:00 <WegeClausen> someone can help me or is this not posible 17:30:09 <glx> using a var is a good idea if you write some kind of generic makefile 17:30:40 <glx> but you should split it for each sub part 17:30:52 <andythenorth> each var only needs consumed once, so eh 17:30:54 * andythenorth testing 17:31:12 <glx> like one group of source files for graphics, one for langs, one for nml 17:32:12 <andythenorth> thanks glx 17:32:18 <andythenorth> graphics changes now detected 17:32:23 <glx> but I'm not sur how make handles a target dir 17:34:36 <glx> WegeClausen: I don't think this settings exist but I may be wrong 17:34:50 <andythenorth> use JGR Patchpack 17:34:53 <andythenorth> from forums 17:34:56 <andythenorth> has town boundaries 17:35:13 <glx> so yeah not in base game :) 17:36:41 <_dp_> CityMania client also has all kinds of town boundaries if you want it for mp 17:40:33 *** Stimrol has joined #openttd 17:41:42 <andythenorth> that cuts a normal compile time by 50% :P 17:41:48 <andythenorth> 30s is a lot better than > 1 min 17:48:12 *** WegeClausen has left #openttd 17:58:07 <V453000> andythenorth: the FIRS coal mine is just excellently well drawn 17:58:26 <V453000> I kind of still like some of the details about the original one more, but overall, fucking amazing 18:06:02 <andythenorth> it’s mostly just the original, except not a direct copy :P 18:06:11 <V453000> yes 18:06:12 <andythenorth> but thanks :) 18:06:33 <V453000> overall the level of quality of especially the newer industries is just outstanding 18:06:44 <V453000> it's really making progress over the years 18:07:08 <andythenorth> I prefer http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/firs/push/LATEST/docs/html/industries.html#diamond_mine 18:07:30 <andythenorth> full on mental roof colour, like original TTD 18:08:11 <V453000> haha 18:08:15 <V453000> yeah that one is nice 18:08:55 <andythenorth> now just needs converting to 32bpp EZ 18:09:05 <andythenorth> ‘to attract more players 18:09:08 <andythenorth> and look modern' 18:09:25 <V453000> there is a whole bunch of really awesome things 18:09:32 <V453000> yeah just draw 16 times more pixels 18:09:36 <V453000> what could possibly go wrong 18:09:43 <V453000> no 32bpp 18:09:46 <andythenorth> ‘looks more modern' 18:09:49 <andythenorth> for 2002 18:09:53 <V453000> haha 18:13:50 <andythenorth> do I make Horse nml super-complicated in hope of faster compiles? 18:13:58 <andythenorth> every vehicle has a lot of switches 18:14:13 <andythenorth> they could all be one set of shared switches, using registers to pass vehicle ID around 18:14:24 <andythenorth> probably wtf 18:15:31 <V453000> :D 18:15:34 * andythenorth thinks not 18:15:41 <andythenorth> faster to compile, slower to code :P 18:15:42 <V453000> overcomplicate it ftw 18:15:43 <andythenorth> maybe 18:17:44 <andythenorth> every wagon has up to 58 switches just to handle showing cargo 18:17:57 <andythenorth> pretty certain they could just be 58 switches once 18:19:01 <andythenorth> not 58 switches * 115 wagons 18:19:04 <andythenorth> @calc 115 * 58 18:19:05 <DorpsGek> andythenorth: 6670 18:27:15 *** orudge` has quit IRC 18:27:19 *** orudge` has joined #openttd 18:27:19 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o orudge` 18:30:54 <andythenorth> so intermodal eh? 18:30:59 <andythenorth> which cargos? 18:31:14 <andythenorth> same as box cargos (everything but bulk)? 18:31:20 <andythenorth> or everything? 18:32:49 <andythenorth> and how should the containers recolour? White + CC? To specific cargo colours (like Hog tarpaulins)? Just to CC? To random range of colours? 18:33:07 <andythenorth> and does intermodal go at pax speed, or freight speed? 18:33:17 <andythenorth> so many questions :P 18:33:35 <V453000> the fuck does intermodal mean 18:33:41 <andythenorth> containers 18:33:47 <V453000> k 18:33:58 <andythenorth> basically if it’s all cargos, and high speed 18:34:00 <andythenorth> then it’s boss 18:34:03 <V453000> containers are wagons with container sprites, nuff specifics :P 18:34:04 <andythenorth> and no other wagons are needed 19:32:11 *** roidal has quit IRC 19:38:09 *** orudge` has quit IRC 19:38:13 *** orudge` has joined #openttd 19:38:13 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o orudge` 20:03:28 *** frosch123 has quit IRC 20:04:59 *** andythenorth has quit IRC 20:15:27 *** synchris_ has quit IRC 20:16:38 *** synchris has joined #openttd 20:55:08 *** Cubey has joined #openttd 21:20:08 *** HerzogDeXtEr has quit IRC 21:21:18 *** HerzogDeXtEr has joined #openttd 21:30:07 <__ln__> for anyone interested in electric sheep or androids, i can recommend the new movie 21:44:32 *** sla_ro|master has quit IRC 22:29:41 *** synchris has quit IRC 22:32:29 *** Gja has quit IRC 22:54:37 *** Mazur has quit IRC 23:03:31 *** Mazur has joined #openttd 23:05:03 *** tokai|noir has joined #openttd 23:05:03 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai|noir 23:07:55 *** Wormnest has quit IRC 23:08:01 *** tokai has quit IRC 23:15:34 <Wolf01> __ln__: Yep, a lot of people recommended it to me too 23:15:53 <supermop_home> i liked it 23:18:52 <Wolf01> I would like it when I could purchase the dvd, or netflix, since I need to travel 40-70km to go to the nearest cinema 23:36:10 <supermop_home> so there exists a tram with a stripe on it that goes like / 23:36:26 <supermop_home> I assumed the other side would have \ 23:36:40 <Wolf01> Nope, still / 23:37:03 <Wolf01> I've seen some vehicles here like it 23:37:14 <Wolf01> OCD strikes back 23:37:19 <supermop_home> so that sometimes it goes (_.._//_.._) ---> 23:37:59 <supermop_home> and sometimes you see it go (_.._\_.._) ---> 23:38:27 <supermop_home> I reworked my template to have both \ --> and // --> 23:38:49 <supermop_home> but now I find the real tram painters were lazier than me 23:39:46 <Wolf01> I live between 2 roro stations, I always see trains with pulling and pushing engines without any logic 23:40:36 <supermop_home> I guess I will allow the fictitious \ 23:41:05 <supermop_home> or could use that slot in template for an art tram or easter egg livery 23:42:27 <Wolf01> +1 23:43:09 <supermop_home> buy tram on my birthday and get a birthday tram 23:47:32 *** Stimrol has quit IRC 23:50:15 *** Progman has quit IRC 23:50:45 *** Lamp- has quit IRC 23:50:53 *** Lamp- has joined #openttd