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If I set a train to load "wood" at a sawmill it won't load anything, if I don't set the filter it works well 10:03:16 *** lugo has joined #openttd 10:19:36 *** supermop_work has quit IRC 10:20:15 *** supermop_work has joined #openttd 10:36:30 <peter1138> Why would Team Fortress 2 have a cargo filter? 10:37:22 <Wolf01> Why not? 10:42:25 *** Samu has joined #openttd 10:42:29 <Samu> hi 10:42:42 <Wolf01> Btw, it's a bit like locomotion now, replace vehicle works when running, not in depot, you set the maintenance cost (normal|high|very high) and it just keeps your vehicles in "good" shape, you can't set when to replace a vehicle with a new model, you have wrong traffic side for train signals and it don't seem to be changed 10:46:03 <Wolf01> Cloning vehicles is a pita. They always appear in the wrong depot 10:46:36 *** Progman has joined #openttd 10:47:40 <SpComb> I've only had a chance to test out the first Campaigns so far, planning on playing more today 10:47:49 <nielsm> yeah destination depot for cloning is really bad 10:48:14 <nielsm> the campaigns are more like puzzles than challenges, at least the first part 10:48:25 <Wolf01> Yup 10:48:26 <SpComb> the combined pax/cargo stations with separate icons rrally tripped me up badly 10:49:02 <SpComb> I can't imagine very many players would be able to figure it out immediately 10:50:28 *** supermop_work has quit IRC 10:50:59 *** supermop_work has joined #openttd 10:53:27 *** asymptotically has joined #openttd 10:54:21 *** D-HUND is now known as debdog 10:54:51 <Wolf01> The date speed is nice, too bad it's limited to 1/4, I liked the 1/8 of TF1 mod, but you can totally pause the date 10:55:01 <Wolf01> You can play 1860 forever 10:55:30 <SpComb> whyyy would you do that 10:56:17 <Wolf01> I wouldn't, I'll paly 1920 forever :> 10:56:20 <Wolf01> *play 10:56:23 <SpComb> I was greatly amused by the orange plastic traffic cones around the 1850 industry mine pits / factory buildings 10:56:29 <SpComb> safety first 10:56:48 <Wolf01> Ahahah, really 10:57:18 <SpComb> yeah, they also have electric outside lighting and HVAC system vents :P 10:57:32 <Wolf01> Also the mines which seem a rollercoaster... 10:59:08 <nielsm> what I miss in TF2 as much as in TF1 are industries changing over time 10:59:27 <Wolf01> Oh, they won't? 10:59:33 <nielsm> why are there plastic industries in 1850 10:59:44 <nielsm> industries never close and new ones never open 11:00:00 <nielsm> and industry production levels are entirely deterministic on your performance 11:01:00 <Wolf01> Time to ruin my performance by building a cargo hub 11:02:25 <Wolf01> I hate not being able to rotate with a finer angle to align to existing roads... 11:02:39 <Wolf01> At least on TF1 it self aligned when placed near a road 11:02:53 <nielsm> shift+N/M do finer rotation 11:03:12 <nielsm> but I keep hitting B (bulldoze) when I reach for N/M blindly 11:03:15 <Wolf01> Hmmm, I even tried it 11:03:29 <nielsm> and pressing B again does not return to the tool you were using before, just to no tool 11:05:49 <nielsm> pondering whether to stream some? 11:09:32 <SpComb> I remapped N/M to Q/E right away 11:10:21 <nielsm> that's a good idea 11:10:22 <SpComb> also remapped the number hotkeys for construction to include things like railway signals, which is probably the most common thing you need... 11:11:11 <SpComb> the tilt/rotation controls are also inverted by default... 11:12:01 <SpComb> I would have wanted to return the game for a refund if it didn't have an option to re-invert those back to their correct behavior :P 11:12:07 <nielsm> yeah took me 3 tries to get the rotation and tilt to make sense 11:12:30 <nielsm> and very annoying they can only be changed from the main menu, not in game 11:12:36 <SpComb> yeah, and toggling them is a full game restart... 11:12:58 <SpComb> I left pan/zoom at the default and toggled tilt/rotate 11:20:49 <nielsm> https://youtu.be/VPZvPvXTC_Y 11:21:12 *** supermop_work has quit IRC 11:21:58 *** supermop_work has joined #openttd 11:51:56 *** supermop_work has quit IRC 11:52:43 *** supermop_work has joined #openttd 11:55:11 <Wolf01> Is it me or it's really easier to earn money compared to TF1? 11:55:52 <Wolf01> All seem to work out of the box here 11:56:51 <SpComb> pax or cargo? The industry supply/prodction economy should have been simplified 11:57:28 <Wolf01> Both 11:58:08 <SpComb> haven't gotten that far yet 11:59:08 <Wolf01> I have a double line between 2 cities with pax and cargo, in one city I deliver tools and the other food, so they exchange... and even with little amounts of cargo the trains are profitable 11:59:36 <SpComb> what about when they age 12:02:47 *** HerzogDeXtEr has joined #openttd 12:02:57 <Wolf01> It's nice how they can fit a house in the smallest space you left between a road and a station... 12:04:26 <nielsm> that's something cities:skylines has received a lot of critique about yeah 12:04:41 <nielsm> how house sizes are inflexible 12:05:06 <SpComb> strict zoning regulations 12:06:22 <SpComb> how well do multiple overlapping passenger routes work? In TF1 I've always avoided setting up more than one route between two stations, because passengers seem to always want to prefer one and the other one runs empty 12:07:08 <nielsm> not sure yet 12:13:50 *** frosch123 has joined #openttd 12:18:12 *** Pikka has quit IRC 12:22:54 *** supermop_work has quit IRC 12:24:48 *** supermop_work has joined #openttd 12:45:15 <milek7_> ..how these trains reverse without being push-pull? ;P 12:45:47 <SpComb> gameplay magic 12:45:48 <Wolf01> I'll tell when I'll connect to the next city, but for sure 3 points routes works fine (wood->planks->factory) 12:46:25 <frosch123> it took me some time to learn that you can put engines at the end of trains in factorio 12:46:41 <Wolf01> Ha :D 12:48:36 <Wolf01> Hmm, I don't know if it's better to separate the farms and the food routes, and put a hub to get all the grain from all the nearest farms before bringing it to the food industry 12:55:01 *** supermop_work has quit IRC 12:56:50 *** supermop_work has joined #openttd 12:57:43 *** Flygon has quit IRC 13:27:02 *** supermop_work has quit IRC 13:27:32 *** supermop_work has joined #openttd 13:30:06 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd 13:30:39 <andythenorth> yo 13:31:20 <Wolf01> o/ 13:34:03 <frosch123> https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/blob/master/src/rail.cpp#L218 <- funny function, isn't it? 13:35:38 <frosch123> no idea what to do with it 13:35:46 <frosch123> it makes no sense when using newgrf railtypes 13:36:08 <frosch123> yet if i remove it, some non-newgrf players will complain that the "select latest railtype in gui" setting does no longer work 13:37:48 <andythenorth> is it worth removing? 13:38:21 <frosch123> i am quite sure i used that setting as well when playing 13:38:48 <frosch123> when you load a savegame you forget to select the railtype that you always use 13:39:19 <frosch123> iirc there is also a setting "select most used railtype", but unless you upgrade everything that may be wrong as well 13:42:47 <frosch123> ah, tracktype have a sorting order property 13:42:50 <frosch123> so it should use that one 13:43:18 <frosch123> easy fix then 13:57:46 *** supermop_work has quit IRC 13:58:17 *** supermop_work has joined #openttd 14:03:39 *** Progman has quit IRC 14:12:51 <peter1138> frosch123, you'd think. That's buggy, and I didn't bother unbugging it ;) 14:13:10 <peter1138> In fact, I don't think I ever mentioned or documented that, heh. 14:13:24 <peter1138> (It broke with the 16 to 64 upgrade) 14:16:17 <frosch123> huh? it never worked with non-default railtypes. the 64 upgrade does not matter, does it? 14:21:05 <peter1138> I mean the sorting order property. 14:26:53 <frosch123> ah, the default value thingie 14:28:30 *** supermop_work has quit IRC 14:29:00 *** supermop_work has joined #openttd 14:32:55 <nielsm> argh I keep building the wrong wagon types especially when replacing trains... 14:59:14 *** supermop_work has quit IRC 14:59:44 *** supermop_work has joined #openttd 15:00:06 *** WormnestAndroid has quit IRC 15:00:06 *** Wormnest_ has quit IRC 15:01:32 *** Wormnest has joined #openttd 15:21:30 *** snail_UES_ has joined #openttd 15:26:53 *** WormnestAndroid has joined #openttd 15:29:58 *** supermop_work has quit IRC 15:30:52 *** supermop_work has joined #openttd 15:57:50 <andythenorth> oh 15:58:04 <andythenorth> depot drag only drags the first 2 units of an articulated vehicle? 15:58:08 <andythenorth> that's lolz 15:58:22 * andythenorth doesn't normally have more than 2 units 16:01:05 *** supermop_work has quit IRC 16:01:35 *** supermop_work has joined #openttd 16:11:58 <andythenorth> https://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/9548/torpedo_car.png 16:15:48 <frosch123> no, it draws N pixels 16:16:01 <frosch123> there is no limit on the number of vehicle parts 16:16:09 <frosch123> but it won't draw the mouse cursor over half the screen 16:17:21 <andythenorth> agreed :) 16:17:38 <andythenorth> that would be silly 16:18:27 *** Progman has joined #openttd 16:18:30 <andythenorth> I was just surprised, a 2 unit 12/8 vehicle is drawn 100%, but a 3 unit 12/8 vehicle only draws the first 2 units 16:18:38 <frosch123> ah, looks like N is 16/8 vehicle length :) 16:19:26 <andythenorth> I could make a video, but eh it's overkill, just checking I didn't write a broken grf 16:19:45 <frosch123> i thought it would truncate the sprite, but apparently it draws whole articulated parts 16:20:03 <andythenorth> I doubt anyone will notice except people like me 16:20:13 * andythenorth about to test https://github.com/OpenTTD/nml/pull/66 16:21:37 <andythenorth> @seen glx 16:21:37 <DorpsGek> andythenorth: glx was last seen in #openttd 17 hours, 14 minutes, and 8 seconds ago: <glx> it is still windy here 16:30:57 <andythenorth> hmm, not sure how to use that yet 16:31:49 *** supermop_work has quit IRC 16:32:47 *** supermop_work has joined #openttd 16:33:44 <andythenorth> can't see anything that makes a switch a procedure 16:34:43 <frosch123> there is an example 16:35:15 <frosch123> if your switch is named "foobar", just use "foobar()" in some expression 16:35:33 <frosch123> and it will use the result of the switch, or whatever temp storage you modify 16:42:58 <andythenorth> I was looking at https://github.com/OpenTTD/nml/pull/66/commits/35d8551dd5781d841bb31856a3e117706d9c1d9d 16:43:01 <andythenorth> oh I missed the () 16:44:19 <FLHerne> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hMonLkerBSA&t=48 16:44:35 <FLHerne> Needs middle-of-road tramways :P 16:45:57 <andythenorth> bizarrely reminds me of https://i.pinimg.com/originals/64/47/62/644762dfcc0844cb70a81b465decf51f.jpg 16:49:12 <andythenorth> FLHerne: tell me about your bus needs 16:49:24 <andythenorth> couple of people mention that Hog isn't enough bus variety 16:50:14 <FLHerne> andythenorth: I said before, my bus needs from Hog are "let me turn the buses off", because Bob's British Buses has plenty ;-) 16:50:24 <FLHerne> I can hide them manually, of course 16:50:37 <andythenorth> I'm possibly open to parameter 16:50:59 <andythenorth> I'll ask Jake what he's missing from Hog bus 16:51:06 <FLHerne> That being the case, I can't really tell you what's wrong with them except that I'm not a fan of the art style 16:51:35 <andythenorth> yup ok 16:51:37 <FLHerne> EGRVTS has parameters by vehicle category, which is what I was using before Hog 16:51:59 <FLHerne> (I'm not really sure why I'm using Hog now, curiosity?) 16:52:36 <andythenorth> I'm not very satisfied with Hog 16:52:41 <andythenorth> it was ok in a pre-NRTworld 16:53:12 <andythenorth> also the sprites are poor, with hindsight 16:53:46 <andythenorth> I have nearly learnt to draw now 16:56:38 <FLHerne> Unrelated Hog thing, why do I only seem to have steam lorries in 1936? 16:57:04 <FLHerne> I think the Hog buses are very TTD-ish? 16:57:52 <FLHerne> Which is nice in a generally vanilla game, but doesn't fit well with the lots-of-tiny-details style used by many grfs 16:58:06 <FLHerne> (ISTR saying the same thing about Horse) 16:58:24 <FLHerne> So...it's fine, just not what I want 16:58:29 <andythenorth> it does seem to be only steam trucks in 1936 16:58:38 <andythenorth> I think I went on an alt-history bender 16:59:10 <andythenorth> steam trucks were extant for a longtime (although not majority) 17:00:08 <andythenorth> wow no diesel trucks until 1945 :D 17:00:23 <andythenorth> that's opinionated 17:03:00 *** supermop_work has quit IRC 17:03:24 *** supermop_work has joined #openttd 17:05:20 * andythenorth wonders who makes this stuff 17:16:23 <frosch123> maybe pikka convinced you that 5 vehicles is enough 17:16:38 <frosch123> so there was no room for early diesel 17:22:37 <peter1138> We let you create thousands, because a hundred wasn't enough... 17:31:10 *** sla_ro|master has quit IRC 17:33:37 *** supermop_work has quit IRC 17:34:26 *** sla_ro|master has joined #openttd 17:35:36 *** supermop_work has joined #openttd 17:45:19 <andythenorth> imagine the compile time with thousands :P 17:46:18 <andythenorth> Horse does have 408 trains though 18:05:50 *** supermop_work has quit IRC 18:09:39 *** supermop_work has joined #openttd 18:35:19 *** Lejving has joined #openttd 18:37:41 *** lugo has quit IRC 18:39:54 *** supermop_work has quit IRC 18:40:58 *** supermop_work has joined #openttd 18:49:44 *** snail_UES_ has quit IRC 19:11:11 *** supermop_work has quit IRC 19:11:37 *** supermop_work has joined #openttd 19:41:37 * andythenorth wonders what vars are safe inside a stored procedure 19:41:50 *** supermop_work has quit IRC 19:41:54 <andythenorth> e.g. if I try to access vehicle random bits, will that work? 19:42:25 *** supermop_work has joined #openttd 19:43:19 <frosch123> it's the same as every other switch 19:45:08 <andythenorth> thanks 20:03:36 <andythenorth> I'm missing something 20:03:49 <andythenorth> what's different between using a stored procedure, and just having a global switch? 20:04:00 <andythenorth> obvs. there is a difference, but what? 20:04:38 <frosch123> with a global switch you can do: (vehicle specific) -> (global) -> result 20:04:57 <frosch123> with a procedure you can do: (vehicle speicifc) -> (global) -> (vehicle specific) -> result 20:05:27 <frosch123> i.e. from a global switch you cannot continue with vehicle specific code 20:05:29 <andythenorth> because the vehicle can determine what to do withe procedure result 20:05:30 <andythenorth> ok 20:05:39 <frosch123> well, unless you add a switch to distinguish by vehicle id again, but well... 20:05:40 <andythenorth> withe is a word? :P 20:06:09 <frosch123> WHIT!!! 20:06:51 <andythenorth> lol I am banned on coop pastebin :) 20:06:53 <andythenorth> "Your IP address is listed as a malicious IP." 20:06:55 <andythenorth> oh well 20:07:39 <andythenorth> there are > 1400 switches like this, I am thinking there might be a better way https://pastebin.com/raw/6F3ekcHc 20:08:02 <andythenorth> seems like a stored procedure, returning 0 or 1 20:08:22 <frosch123> what are they used for? 20:08:32 <andythenorth> vehicle changes speed with certain engine IDs 20:09:06 <andythenorth> cb36 result 20:09:28 <frosch123> yes, but why? :p 20:09:39 <frosch123> one engine checking for another? 20:09:42 <andythenorth> BAD FEATURE 20:09:43 <frosch123> or engine checking for wagons? 20:09:51 <andythenorth> engine checks for another 20:09:51 <frosch123> why are there so many valid combinations? 20:10:08 <andythenorth> any express engine is valid 20:10:14 <frosch123> is the speed limit not the minimum of both speed limits? 20:10:15 <andythenorth> I could do it with those weird user bits? 20:10:31 <andythenorth> no those user bits are too weird 20:10:33 <frosch123> maximum? sum? :p 20:11:04 <nielsm> oh yeah, a random thought I had in the shower today and just recalled: penalty weight for certain vehicles carrying certain cargo types, e.g. if you load oil on a container flatcar, the car would gain an additional few tons of dead weight from the oil tank in container format 20:11:30 <andythenorth> it's max(engine speed, generation-specific express engine speed) 20:11:45 <andythenorth> if no valid express engine is attached, it's just engine speed 20:12:12 <andythenorth> it's a really stupid feature, I'm not going to try and rationalise it 20:12:38 *** supermop_work has quit IRC 20:13:01 *** supermop_work has joined #openttd 20:14:09 <frosch123> i guess user bits may be the right solution :p 20:14:47 <andythenorth> they have a use? :P 20:14:54 <frosch123> express engine sets user value 0x80. the other engines checks whether anyone did set 0x80 20:15:05 <frosch123> iirc they were invented to check for salon vans 20:15:19 <andythenorth> they seem so likely to go wrong :P 20:15:31 <andythenorth> do they predate engine pool by any chance? 20:15:42 <frosch123> yes, they fail if you mix newgrfs that both want to use them 20:16:02 <andythenorth> no really :) 20:16:16 <andythenorth> is there a fake shock emoticon? 20:16:18 <frosch123> just 8 bits, no 4-byte labels for user properties :p 20:16:37 <frosch123> always use the cookie emoji 20:16:39 <andythenorth> I am going to try this as a stored procedure, I was looking for an excuse 20:16:45 <frosch123> you can eat it at least 20:17:12 <frosch123> i see no usecase for stored procedure 20:17:16 <frosch123> in this example 20:17:31 <andythenorth> could just be a global switch? 20:17:40 <frosch123> if you want less switches, you can replace them all with a single switch with count(a)+count(b)+..+ 20:17:47 <andythenorth> the required speed varies by engine 20:17:50 <frosch123> count(z) > 0 20:18:19 <frosch123> you can also STORE_TEMP the two results in advance 20:18:23 <andythenorth> if I do count(a)+count(b) doesn't nml expand all that to some horror? 20:18:33 <frosch123> but ok, you can also use a procedure for that 20:19:02 <andythenorth> so this could just be a global switch with 2 registers 20:19:04 <frosch123> i don't recall a limit on the terms in a sum 20:19:39 <andythenorth> oof, wonder why I did this for purchase speed, let's not look too closely "${int(1.60934 * consist.speed)}" 20:19:43 <andythenorth> can't be wise 20:20:15 <andythenorth> apparently works 20:23:04 <frosch123> in callbacks you have to do your own mph->kmh conversion, while nml can do it in properties 20:23:39 <andythenorth> 🍪 20:23:48 <frosch123> :) 20:26:56 *** glx has joined #openttd 20:26:56 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v glx 20:44:16 *** supermop_work has quit IRC 20:45:58 *** supermop_work has joined #openttd 20:48:53 *** sla_ro|master has quit IRC 21:16:12 *** supermop_work has quit IRC 21:16:49 *** supermop_work has joined #openttd 21:18:55 *** frosch123 has quit IRC 21:23:08 <DorpsGek_III_> [OpenTTD/nml] andythenorth commented on pull request #66: Add: allow use of switches and random switches as procedures https://git.io/JeQ1H 21:23:21 <andythenorth> oh glx is here now :) 21:25:07 * andythenorth wonders why the stored procedure compiles 9 seconds faster, must just be local variation 21:26:09 <andythenorth> unless nml store temp is really expensive 21:28:04 <glx> using constant is faster than LOAD_TEMP() 21:28:27 <andythenorth> in compile? No expansion of advanced varact2? 21:28:30 <glx> IIRC LOAD_TEMP() is done via action D 21:28:47 <glx> then action 6 21:28:59 <andythenorth> stored procedure consistently compiles faster than the STORE_TEMP alternative 21:29:16 <andythenorth> it's only a couple of seconds when comparing worst and best times 21:29:21 <andythenorth> and 9s for best and worst times 21:29:56 <andythenorth> so how close to done is PR 66? :) 21:30:24 <glx> it's probably ok, I should undraft it :) 21:30:52 <andythenorth> I don't mind testing in a branch, but I don't want to go too far from master :P 21:31:18 <glx> btw compare the NFO, you'll see why compile takes more time when not using constants 21:31:29 <andythenorth> I can imagine 21:31:44 <andythenorth> I used to write all the advanced varact2 by hand for registers 21:32:48 <glx> IIRC load_temp is compiled as an action D and action 6, so it reads the value then overwrite a placeholder in the varact2 21:34:42 <andythenorth> that's...baroque :) 21:35:46 <andythenorth> Iron Horse nfo with stored procedure is only 3000 bytes smaller :) 21:35:58 <andythenorth> on 18.4MB file :) 21:36:03 <andythenorth> but eh 21:36:10 <andythenorth> 'every little helps' 21:36:28 <glx> yeah, not a big improvement 21:37:12 <andythenorth> there will be bigger improvements 21:37:17 <andythenorth> I picked an easy case to start 21:42:16 <andythenorth> there are 1700 switches dealing just with sticking a red pixel on the last vehicle of the train 21:42:57 <andythenorth> those can't trivially be global-with-register, so stored procedure might help 21:44:17 <andythenorth> hmmm why do I call them 'stored procedures' they're just 'procedures' 21:44:23 <andythenorth> blame years-ago mySQL 21:47:01 *** supermop_work has quit IRC 21:48:28 *** supermop_work has joined #openttd 22:00:35 *** andythenorth has quit IRC 22:20:12 *** supermop_work has quit IRC 22:20:35 *** supermop_work has joined #openttd 22:23:36 <FLHerne> Why is 'snow%' not documented in https://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/NML:Units ? 22:24:01 *** Wolf01 has quit IRC 22:31:35 *** asymptotically has quit IRC 22:50:49 *** supermop_work has quit IRC 22:51:35 *** supermop_work has joined #openttd 23:12:18 *** urdh has quit IRC 23:21:48 *** supermop_work has quit IRC 23:23:54 *** Flygon has joined #openttd 23:24:22 *** supermop_work has joined #openttd 23:45:23 *** Samu has quit IRC 23:52:26 *** nielsm has quit IRC 23:56:06 *** supermop_work has quit IRC 23:57:18 *** supermop_work has joined #openttd