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00:40:45 *** Flygon has joined #openttd 00:41:26 *** heffer has quit IRC 00:41:37 *** heffer has joined #openttd 01:39:09 *** heffer_ has joined #openttd 01:39:44 *** heffer__ has joined #openttd 01:44:36 *** heffer has quit IRC 01:47:16 *** heffer_ has quit IRC 02:52:17 *** heffer__ has quit IRC 03:49:19 *** D-HUND has joined #openttd 03:52:44 *** debdog has quit IRC 04:06:44 *** glx has quit IRC 04:36:43 *** snail_UES_ has quit IRC 04:46:55 *** urdh has quit IRC 04:48:12 *** urdh has joined #openttd 05:09:02 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Montandalar commented on issue #7831: Crash on placing vehicle in group that used to contain 1 vehicle https://git.io/JerJc 05:16:43 *** tokai has joined #openttd 05:16:43 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai 05:23:36 *** tokai|noir has quit IRC 05:34:56 *** Gustavo6046 has quit IRC 05:41:05 *** Gustavo6046 has joined #openttd 06:21:01 *** arikover has joined #openttd 06:34:56 *** sla_ro|master has joined #openttd 06:46:04 *** nielsm has joined #openttd 06:55:00 *** reldred has quit IRC 07:05:00 *** reldred has joined #openttd 07:25:10 *** longtomjr has joined #openttd 07:26:17 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd 07:53:50 *** HerzogDeXtEr has joined #openttd 08:44:38 <andythenorth> https://twitter.com/LukeVernon/status/1324158574646480897 08:44:43 <andythenorth> roadtype! 08:44:45 <andythenorth> tramtype! 08:44:47 <andythenorth> FMLtype! 08:54:55 <LordAro> ha 09:00:35 *** DasPoseidon has joined #openttd 09:05:52 *** WormnestAndroid has quit IRC 09:06:05 *** WormnestAndroid has joined #openttd 09:09:03 <SpComb> a bus disguised as a tram 09:12:28 <reldred> shhhh, let that bus be all that it can be 09:30:02 <Eddi|zuHause> i'm pretty sure we discussed these before 09:30:56 <Eddi|zuHause> and i'm pretty sure we concluded that these lines on the road fail as soon as there's dirt, snow, or heavy usage 09:50:06 <andythenorth> can we delete inflation? 09:50:15 <andythenorth> we could do it on 1 of 2 grounds 09:50:27 <andythenorth> 1) it doesn't work, and causes newgrf bug reports 09:50:29 <andythenorth> 2) it's unrealistic 09:51:29 <LordAro> i wouldn't be opposed to disabling it by default 10:07:40 <andythenorth> hmm 10:08:08 <andythenorth> mostly I draw vehicles that are mostly symmetric along the long axis 10:09:59 <andythenorth> but contemporary small ships often have cranes offset to one side https://shiptrade.nl/images/For-Sale/DRY/3000_DWT_geared_MPP_for_sale.jpg 10:16:06 *** virtualrandomnumber has joined #openttd 10:16:20 *** virtualrandomnumber has quit IRC 10:30:46 *** iSoSyS has joined #openttd 10:31:06 *** Extrems has quit IRC 10:31:34 *** Extrems has joined #openttd 10:31:45 <longtomjr> andythenorth, are those cranes for loading? 10:32:15 <andythenorth> yup 10:34:54 <longtomjr> Those pipes on the side of the hull is interesting, that is probably too small for ttd scale? 10:54:37 <andythenorth> the welded ribs on the hull? 10:55:21 <andythenorth> I tend to stick a few highlight / shadow pixels in to give the impression that surfaces aren't flat 10:55:31 <andythenorth> trying to actually draw them won't work, scale issues 11:07:27 *** dot_Sp0T has joined #openttd 11:07:34 <dot_Sp0T> Hello, anybody round? 11:09:34 <dot_Sp0T> That is a shame.... Anyway in case anybody happens by and reads this: I was hoping to find some help in regards to working with the OpenTTD sources. But I seemingly cannot write any messages in the dev channel 11:13:59 <longtomjr> If you have questions, feel free to ask here. Someone might see your message and be able to help. 11:15:37 <LordAro> you waited 2 minutes 11:15:46 <LordAro> @topic get 3 11:15:46 <DorpsGek> LordAro: Don't ask to ask, just ask 11:19:16 <dot_Sp0T> It seems most of the openttd codebase is in C++ so I was looking around for what tools are recommended/necessary to work with the codebase (have just found the Development Wiki after some more searching, so scouring that right now...). In the meantime: Is there any currently recommended way to go about writing a mod/patch for the game? 11:23:30 <dot_Sp0T> The simplest way I see right now is forking the base-repo and branching off that. From there I wonder if there's any process in place commonly used that is different from somehow just filtering out modified files and / or 'simply' recompiling and installing the modded game 11:30:21 *** iSoSyS has quit IRC 11:40:08 <LordAro> that's basically it, yeah 11:40:18 <dot_Sp0T> sad 11:40:22 <LordAro> don't need to "install" it, just run it from the resulting folder 11:40:23 <dot_Sp0T> but expected 11:40:25 <LordAro> sad? 11:40:53 <dot_Sp0T> was hoping there might be some sort of process, especially considering interaction of mods and downloadsizes 11:41:27 <LordAro> that is the process 11:41:32 <LordAro> i'm not sure what else you were expecting 11:41:50 <LordAro> (also, just standard C++ development environment for working with the codebase, every developer has their own preferences) 11:41:53 <longtomjr> Patches and mods are 2 different things. You can write scripts and graphics to change the game in certain aspects, without having to patch the source code. 11:42:37 <dot_Sp0T> yes, using newgrf 11:42:52 <longtomjr> that is "mods" though. In openttd land we have newGrfs: Add more vehicles, rails, industries, objects etc. 11:42:53 <dot_Sp0T> but that only allows touching aspects of the game that are already designed to be modified/extended 11:43:12 <LordAro> newgrf development is very different to OTTD development 11:43:20 <longtomjr> Then there is gamescripts as well, that can add some goal oriented layer on top of the game. 11:44:30 <longtomjr> Gamescripts and Newgrfs are both developed in different ways, and can be distributed with the ingame content downloader. 11:46:22 <longtomjr> Mods in any game only allows touching aspects of the game that were designed to be modded and extended. With openttd being open source, you can however extend the game beyond that by creating a patched version of the game. 11:47:26 <longtomjr> This seems pretty normal to me, so like LordAro said, what did you expect this process to look like? 12:01:41 <dot_Sp0T> I was not expecting anything, I was merely hoping there might be something :) 12:01:46 *** HerzogDeXtEr1 has joined #openttd 12:05:29 *** DasPoseidon has quit IRC 12:07:02 <andythenorth> there is some dev documentation in the wiki dot_Sp0T https://wiki.openttd.org/Development 12:07:08 <andythenorth> it's not official, it's not comprehensive 12:07:22 <andythenorth> I did tidy it up last year and removed junk, but eh 12:07:45 <andythenorth> it's community contributed so it is what it is 12:07:54 *** HerzogDeXtEr has quit IRC 12:08:41 <andythenorth> dot_Sp0T there are a couple of official docs also https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/blob/master/CONTRIBUTING.md and https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/blob/master/COMPILING.md 12:08:44 <dot_Sp0T> the wiki is very nice, once i find pages :)) 12:09:54 <dot_Sp0T> am currently going through all that, but trying to respond in here in parallel once somebody writes something (don't wanna seem ungrateful) 12:10:04 <andythenorth> there are a few other official docs here also https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/tree/master/docs 12:10:07 <andythenorth> quite sparse 12:11:58 <dot_Sp0T> sparse but efficient, right now i'm just trying to find my way around cmake, as in the past i have never had to use it 12:23:31 *** DasPoseidon has joined #openttd 12:27:56 <TrueBrain> damn, frosch really has been busy with the export ... things are now nice and lovely in separate folders .. it is really nice 12:28:00 <TrueBrain> let me get this to staging in a bit :D 12:48:21 <TrueBrain> hmmm .. having folders in categories does show the problem of having the same category-name in different folders 12:48:25 <TrueBrain> that might be somewhat confusing I guess 12:58:37 *** snail_UES_ has joined #openttd 13:11:41 <dot_Sp0T> well that took me way too long to find the issue i am having. Is any dev here that works on windows and perchance not with visualstudio? 13:13:45 <LordAro> @topic get 3 13:13:45 <DorpsGek> LordAro: Don't ask to ask, just ask 13:15:52 <dot_Sp0T> that's lit what i did 13:16:30 <LordAro> don't ask if there's anyone around to ask your question to either 13:16:37 <LordAro> just ask your damn question 13:20:04 *** dot_Sp0T has quit IRC 13:20:13 <TrueBrain> breath LordAro , breath! 13:20:18 <TrueBrain> bread? 13:20:23 <TrueBrain> well, you get what I mean :P 13:20:26 <LordAro> oh dear 13:22:52 *** longtomjr has left #openttd 13:22:57 *** dot_Sp0T has joined #openttd 13:22:59 *** longtomjr has joined #openttd 13:23:32 <dot_Sp0T> Sorry, had to restart to get powershell to behave. probably missed your last msgs 13:24:32 <TrueBrain> it felt like a ragequit :P 13:24:52 <TrueBrain> but seriously dot_Sp0T , in these communities, like most open source, just tell what you are doing and what you are seeking help with 13:24:57 <longtomjr> having to restart bc powershell might be rage inducing 13:25:05 <TrueBrain> don't try to connect with someone first, to ask the question .. it makes for very very slow conversations :) 13:25:25 <TrueBrain> it sounds a bit rude, it really isn't :) 13:25:45 <TrueBrain> dev-expertise is all over the place, so finding "a dev" is not going to help you :) Asking what you have issues with, most of the time will ;) 13:26:09 <TrueBrain> longtomjr: fair point, honestly :P 13:26:13 <longtomjr> sometimes they even email you to offer you a deal on building a mobile app. these dev 13:26:14 <longtomjr> s 13:26:40 *** arikover has quit IRC 13:26:42 <TrueBrain> ......... longtomjr stop reminding me :P 13:27:24 <longtomjr> Why, is the offer starting to seem more and more appealing? 13:27:35 <TrueBrain> ONLY IF WE ALL START TALKING LIKE THIS 13:27:46 <longtomjr> hahah 13:28:14 <dot_Sp0T> anyway it's mostly what i implied but not stated explecitile: DId you get the buildprocess to run on windows without using visual studio, and if yes, how? (I am in the process of slogging through the cmake doku to understand what the lists file tells me and to config env vars accordingly) 13:28:39 <TrueBrain> if not using VS, what are you using? 13:28:41 <TrueBrain> kinda important :P 13:29:19 <dot_Sp0T> in my case CEVELOP which is built on top of eclipse CDT. But i could be using anything to edit the files and then run a compiler/debugger per command line for all i care 13:29:36 <LordAro> cmake does have a workable gui 13:30:14 <TrueBrain> never heard of CEVELOP, no clue if there is CMake support for that :D You are exploring new territoria :D 13:30:24 <LordAro> https://cevelop.com/faq/ looks like it might have an answer 13:30:49 <TrueBrain> not a promising answer ... 13:31:05 <LordAro> not a great one, but presumably workable 13:31:07 <TrueBrain> well, the second step is pretty solid 13:31:19 <longtomjr> What are you using to build on pipelines? 13:31:19 <dot_Sp0T> yeah no the answer there is a good pointer, but I figure i need to get CMAKE running first 13:31:37 <longtomjr> ah vs 13:31:42 <dot_Sp0T> i was hoping to only build locally^^ 13:31:54 <TrueBrain> longtomjr: MSVC simply gives the best binaries, we found out over 15 years :P 13:31:55 <LordAro> work out where the cmake gui is, use that 13:32:06 <longtomjr> Nah, were asking True what openttd uses in their pipelines. 13:32:09 * LordAro disappears 13:32:20 <longtomjr> https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/blob/master/azure-pipelines/templates/windows-build.yml 13:32:22 <dot_Sp0T> ah nvm 13:32:23 <TrueBrain> dot_Sp0T: honestly, most Windows people simply use MSVC 13:32:40 <TrueBrain> so you are a bit on your own here, most likely ... 13:32:53 * LordAro has no real issues with MinGW, but it wouldn't try to use it for "serious" development work 13:33:07 <TrueBrain> well, I use WSL, and cross-compile 13:33:11 <TrueBrain> but I might be a bit weird :P 13:33:12 <LordAro> mkdir build && cd build && cmake .. works just fine 13:33:20 <dot_Sp0T> no bother 13:33:20 <TrueBrain> I just love VSCode, and I love WSL2 :) 13:33:35 <LordAro> TrueBrain: just a bit weird 13:33:45 <longtomjr> TrueBrain is windows your daily driver? 13:34:16 <TrueBrain> "daily driver"? Sorry, I don't know that slang, what do you mean? 13:34:33 <longtomjr> As in the operating system you mainly use? 13:35:02 <TrueBrain> I only use Windows these days 13:35:09 <TrueBrain> but I do all coding work via WSL2 13:35:12 <longtomjr> ✝✝✝ 13:35:17 <TrueBrain> vscode also runs in WSL2 13:35:40 <TrueBrain> wait, you want to start an OS war? :D 13:35:47 <longtomjr> No, mostly just joking 13:35:52 <longtomjr> were interested 13:36:02 <TrueBrain> I used all OSes ... in the end, they are all the same 13:36:12 <TrueBrain> I like MacOS because it means it "just works", 99% of the time 13:36:24 <TrueBrain> I like Windows because games "just work", 99% of the time 13:36:30 <TrueBrain> I like Linux, because FUCK OFF I CAN DO THIS MYSELF 13:36:40 <longtomjr> Proton is nice 13:36:58 <TrueBrain> but WSL2 + Windows is a really strong platform to work with 13:37:11 <TrueBrain> today I was in a store where they had installed xfce as desktop for the employees 13:37:17 <TrueBrain> HILARIOUS when she opened up Firefox 13:37:19 <TrueBrain> took 3+ minutes 13:37:23 <TrueBrain> guess they have Raspberries :P 13:37:49 <TrueBrain> Proton is nice, Stadia is nicerrrrrrr 13:38:11 <longtomjr> Yep, I used WSL as well when working mostly in C#, installed it on the company machine, got a visit from the secops guys... 13:38:25 <longtomjr> Something something cpu code injection something something 13:38:33 <TrueBrain> well, if you run WSL, you might as well be local administrator, honestly 13:38:51 <TrueBrain> good for them they detected it, but why could you install it in the first place? :D 13:39:00 <longtomjr> They gave up, so all the coders were local admins. 13:39:43 <longtomjr> Otherwise they would non stop be getting requests like, "I need emacs for note taking", "new vs version is out", "I want my screensaver to be a cute puppy" etc. 13:39:57 <TrueBrain> yeah ... putting developers in their own vlan is a very smart thing to do .. and give them very limited network access :D 13:40:20 <longtomjr> They gave us access to the guest network, otherwise we will not be able to download vs code 13:40:23 *** dot_Sp0T has quit IRC 13:40:33 <TrueBrain> I gave a lot of training in companies, for security-related stuff .. developers were the most fun :) 13:40:41 <longtomjr> We are a terrible bunch 13:40:52 <TrueBrain> mostly, I love "hacking" into developers laptops 13:40:58 <TrueBrain> it is .. like ... really quick 13:41:10 * longtomjr unplugs router 13:41:13 <TrueBrain> as there is always this one person that has a Tomcat or what-ever outdated running on a weird port 13:41:24 <TrueBrain> like .. "yes, now it is hidden" 13:41:51 <TrueBrain> and always with passwords that are .. euh ... well, simple? :D 13:41:55 *** dot_Sp0T has joined #openttd 13:42:39 <longtomjr> TrueBrain, hmm, did not know I belonged to a demographic with bad password discipline 13:43:05 <TrueBrain> local setups always run the most simplest of passwords 13:43:13 <TrueBrain> I have that myself even ... and I should know better :P 13:43:25 <TrueBrain> so a local apache 13:43:27 <TrueBrain> or a local tomcat 13:43:30 <TrueBrain> or a local database 13:43:37 <TrueBrain> they often have logins like root/root, or test/test 13:43:48 <TrueBrain> as .. which developer constantly wants to use his Password Manager to enter his local database? 13:43:53 <longtomjr> Aaah yep, but those should not be exposed to the network? 13:43:59 <TrueBrain> SHOULD not be 13:44:10 <TrueBrain> but often enough either firewalls are not configured 13:44:19 <longtomjr> (I might be that developer, religously use my password manager, because I can forget root/root) 13:44:28 <TrueBrain> or, my favorite: I just exposed it for a few minutes to my colleague could see what I was doing 13:44:42 <longtomjr> That is like only running around naked for 5 minutes 13:44:44 <TrueBrain> s/to/so/ 13:44:59 <longtomjr> you are still running around naked in public 13:45:00 <TrueBrain> and, as it goes: out of the 10 developers, only 1 needs to have this attitude :) 13:45:42 <longtomjr> Yep. Turns out developers know enough to be a security threat, but not enough to mitigate it. 13:46:07 <TrueBrain> I have been in the cybersecurity field for over 5 years now, and I still make those mistakes .. it is VERY difficult to keep track of that all constantly 13:46:14 <longtomjr> Something something a little bit of knowledge is more dangerous than no knowledge 13:46:49 <longtomjr> I think it is easier to make those mistakes on your local setup, somehow you feel less is at stake 13:48:04 <TrueBrain> and often: I will do this quickly and clean up after 13:48:17 <TrueBrain> I once put my Docker on a TCP socket, as I needed to connect to it remotely 13:48:18 <TrueBrain> forgot about it 13:48:26 <TrueBrain> within 3 days it had coinminers running 13:48:36 <longtomjr> oof 13:49:04 <TrueBrain> it happens; simple as that 13:49:43 <longtomjr> Luckily it were just docker 13:49:52 <longtomjr> or did it have filesystem permissions? 13:50:10 <TrueBrain> Docker API access == root access 13:50:13 <TrueBrain> nothing you can do about that 13:50:23 <longtomjr> Oof. 13:50:27 <TrueBrain> for me, in this case, I am the type of person that isolates EVERYTHING 13:50:33 <TrueBrain> so the Docker host was... just a Docker host 13:50:36 <TrueBrain> with only images it pulled 13:50:42 <TrueBrain> but .. it is a mistake easily made 13:51:16 <dot_Sp0T> anyway, gotta fiddle with it some more another day. thanks for all the help!!!! 13:51:20 *** dot_Sp0T has quit IRC 13:52:38 <TrueBrain> https://github.com/TrueBrain/TrueWiki/pull/26 <- so many fixes to deploy ... and new featuresssssss :D 13:53:58 <TrueBrain> lets see how long it takes to get this to staging :) 13:54:04 <longtomjr> I were still reviewing :P 13:54:22 <TrueBrain> good for you :D Let me know if you find anything wrong :) 13:54:40 <longtomjr> I think I will probably not find anything, but I will learn a bit 13:54:58 <TrueBrain> pretty sure there are mistakes somewhere hiding in there, but as it goes .. after a while you go blind on these things :) 13:55:04 <TrueBrain> downside of your own code, honestly 13:55:27 <longtomjr> Yep, best to outsource it to a company when you want to develop apps. Then you don't have to deal with your own code ;) 13:55:39 <TrueBrain> .......... 13:55:41 <TrueBrain> :P 13:56:05 <TrueBrain> "Python overtakes Java to become the second-most popular programming language" <- what a silly headline 13:56:25 <longtomjr> There is a lot to unpack there 13:56:33 <TrueBrain> it reads like: gratz, you are still failing 13:56:42 *** sla_ro|master has quit IRC 13:59:45 <longtomjr> Let me know what the warm up time is 14:05:53 <TrueBrain> https://wiki.staging.openttd.org/File/en/OpenttdManual.png 14:05:57 <TrueBrain> https://wiki.staging.openttd.org/Category/en/Template%20Images 14:06:27 <TrueBrain> PRETTY 14:06:28 <TrueBrain> ish 14:06:59 <TrueBrain> I like it tells you when a page is on another language than you are on now 14:07:23 <longtomjr> Ooh 14:09:19 <TrueBrain> pretty happy with most of it now, honestly :) 14:11:27 <TrueBrain> the editing is not completely done yet, but otherwise I think the viewing part is pretty much complete .. 14:11:41 <TrueBrain> well, yes, the export needs some fixing, but .. that is just a matter of doing, more than anything else 14:15:27 <LordAro> very nice 14:15:56 <TrueBrain> tnx :) 14:25:49 <TrueBrain> let me know if you find any non-content related bugs pretty please (in the view part) 14:40:55 <andythenorth> TrueBrain 96% of the time 15:02:29 <TrueBrain> do I want to know why you are throwing percentages at me andythenorth ? :D 15:02:37 <andythenorth> no 15:02:47 <andythenorth> was it lunch time yet? 15:02:52 <TrueBrain> 4 hours overdue 15:02:53 <TrueBrain> sure 15:24:11 <supermop_Home> coffee time? 15:24:44 <andythenorth> no 15:28:03 <FLHerne> andythenorth: There's quite a difference between 60s/70s ships and more recent ones 15:28:29 <supermop_Home> hydrofoil bulk carriers? 15:29:22 <FLHerne> The older ones tend to have angled decks and very smoothly-faired hulls, like https://workboatdc-static.s3.amazonaws.com/uploads/2018/02/rsz_el_faro_hi_res-702x336.jpg or https://i.ytimg.com/vi/ML0gzTQJdos/maxresdefault.jpg 15:29:29 <andythenorth> FLHerne there is if things like X-bow are included 15:29:52 <FLHerne> Also, forward control on boxships was much more common in that era 15:30:19 <andythenorth> find some 1000grt coasters and report back :D 15:30:38 <andythenorth> shortsea ships, the 1990+ ones often have things like elevating house 15:30:45 <andythenorth> and the hull is more angular 15:31:15 <FLHerne> Then the yards realized it's cheaper to use identical prefab sections 15:32:17 <FLHerne> So modern ones have have perfectly-square/flat decks for most of the length, and the bow is obviously sort of tacked on the end with the minimum length of custom steel possible 15:32:49 <andythenorth> the current 1960s-70s small GCV is similar to http://www.shipspotting.com/gallery/photo.php?lid=676807 15:33:04 <FLHerne> Like http://maritime-connector.com/ships_uploads/ever_lambent-9595436-container_ship-8-160636.jpg 15:33:08 <andythenorth> https://grf.farm/images/shackleton-longstone.png?region=eu-west-2&tab=overview 15:33:57 <FLHerne> You can go some way just by making the wheelhouse an ugly square box :p 15:34:05 <FLHerne> Maybe with bridge wings 15:35:22 <andythenorth> https://products.damen.com/en/ranges/combi-coaster/combi-coaster-2750 15:35:31 <andythenorth> square off the rear hull 15:35:38 <FLHerne> https://www.flherne.uk/files/IMG_20200312_153725.jpg is a very little coaster I found on holiday 15:36:07 <andythenorth> hmm 15:36:16 * andythenorth looks up the grt 15:36:53 <FLHerne> I went on this at the same time https://www.fleetmon.com/vessels/condor-liberation_9551363_2032797/ 15:36:58 <FLHerne> It's a beautiful ship 15:37:17 <FLHerne> SQUID doesn't do fast ferries currently, does it? 15:37:28 <andythenorth> can't remember 15:37:39 <andythenorth> I am going to bring the hydrofoils back for Sam 15:37:51 <FLHerne> Little fast river catamarans like the Thames Clippers or NYC Ferries ones would be nice 15:38:27 <andythenorth> I spent a lot of time looking at incat and austal https://www.incat.com.au/ 15:38:31 <FLHerne> SQUID has basically one small passenger boat with a useful capacity, which gets boring to look at 15:38:38 <andythenorth> it does 15:39:03 <andythenorth> I think for the general cargo ships, I want to keep the crane 15:39:10 <andythenorth> most coasters aren't geared now 15:39:27 <andythenorth> and those that are have hydraulic cranes offset to one side 15:39:33 <FLHerne> ACL's new conros are quite different-looking 15:39:35 <FLHerne> http://3kbo302xo3lg2i1rj8450xje-wpengine.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/Atlantic-Star-voor-StS-800x533.jpg 15:39:49 <FLHerne> And surprisingly small compared to current large container ships 15:39:52 <andythenorth> like a spaceship 15:40:06 <andythenorth> it's like a vegas hotel set sail 15:40:18 <andythenorth> paint it gold, put 'Trump' down the side 15:40:30 <FLHerne> Hm? 15:40:41 <FLHerne> The big racks are to stop containers falling off the side 15:40:56 <FLHerne> Because the North Atlantic has famously bad weather 15:41:31 <FLHerne> Most of the big ships go much further south, out of Gibraltar or so 15:41:54 <FLHerne> But ACL's niche is relatively frequent, low-transit-time shuttles between the NE US and Northern Europe 15:41:56 <andythenorth> don't know why, but reminded me of https://assets.trump.com/website/business/vegas_main_main_use_compressed.jpg 15:42:20 <FLHerne> So they have to go straight across the Atlantic regardless of weather 15:42:36 * FLHerne isn't seeing it 15:43:13 <andythenorth> nvm :) 15:43:36 <andythenorth> anyway, I'm quite open to 'modern' ships, but it takes 1 week to draw each ship 15:43:39 <FLHerne> Are you doing vehicle carriers? Those are distinctive 15:43:51 <andythenorth> I am probably going to do a fake small shortsea one 15:44:03 <andythenorth> there are real shortsea vehicle carriers, but they aren't interesting 15:44:13 <andythenorth> I want to squash one of the big WW type 15:44:49 <FLHerne> https://i.redd.it/l23dfz7zasv51.png ? 15:44:56 <FLHerne> Don't forget the basketball court :p 15:45:20 <andythenorth> http://www.shipspotting.com/gallery/photo.php?lid=1387051 15:45:29 <andythenorth> actual shortsea edition 15:45:31 <andythenorth> maybe 15:45:58 <FLHerne> https://www.flherne.uk/files/IMG_20200318_175811.jpg -- smallish ro-pax ferry, mostly freight 15:46:23 <FLHerne> Oh, that's interesting, I've not seen one like that 15:46:33 <andythenorth> so many ship types :P 15:46:45 <andythenorth> designing a UK-based train set is much easier to research 15:46:50 <andythenorth> there are only so many wagon types 15:47:54 <FLHerne> https://www.hafen-hamburg.de/images/0/fotos/news/Atlantic_Star_091215-21.jpg has more scale 15:48:18 <FLHerne> Big ship, but not as big as it looks :p 15:51:09 *** DasPoseidon has quit IRC 15:52:05 <andythenorth> the small ferry though 15:52:14 <andythenorth> that's a candidate 15:52:17 <andythenorth> oof so many ships to draw 15:56:17 <supermop_Home> andythenorth that one up there i thought was "City of Lettuce" 15:56:17 *** _dp_ has quit IRC 15:59:11 *** nielsm has quit IRC 16:02:02 *** DasPoseidon has joined #openttd 16:05:01 *** Flygon has quit IRC 16:11:43 *** Wormnest has joined #openttd 17:23:04 *** Progman has joined #openttd 17:28:35 *** frosch123 has joined #openttd 17:34:37 <andythenorth> are there any devs here? 17:34:48 <andythenorth> or who is a newgrf expert I could ask a question to? 17:44:32 <TrueBrain> @kick andythenorth go sit in the corner 17:44:33 *** andythenorth was kicked by DorpsGek (go sit in the corner) 17:44:47 <TrueBrain> 1002 17:45:42 *** nielsm has joined #openttd 17:46:19 <longtomjr> harsh 17:46:28 <TrueBrain> is it? really? :) 17:46:43 <longtomjr> Not even a warining, how could he have knows 17:46:49 <longtomjr> known* 17:46:54 *** andythenorth_corner has joined #openttd 17:47:02 <TrueBrain> good boy andythenorth_corner :) 17:47:37 <andythenorth_corner> pls, send me the codez? https://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=1237697#p1237697 17:48:48 <longtomjr> andythenorth_corner, JGR's daylength modifies running cost 17:49:15 <longtomjr> That is most likely what is happening 17:50:55 <longtomjr> So I think it might be 16 daylength factor since that is the mulitple 17:51:12 <andythenorth_corner> why the fuck would it do that :D 17:51:12 <longtomjr> but I am not 100% sure how daylength scales that factor 17:51:26 <frosch123> TrueBrain: if i move some templates (like {{!}} or {{-}}) into the template root folder (without en/). does that cause problems on your side? do you expect a language code? 17:51:32 <longtomjr> because otherwise trains are insanely cheap to run 17:51:39 <longtomjr> on higher daylengths 17:51:59 <TrueBrain> frosch123: today I added code that makes link without langauge code invalid, yes :P 17:52:01 <TrueBrain> doesn't mean we can't add it 17:52:05 <TrueBrain> but maybe in its own "language"? 17:52:15 <longtomjr> So the actual running cost per tick might be the same, but because the year has more ticks (to make money and travel) the running costs scale up with it 17:52:26 <frosch123> TrueBrain: okay, sounds like v2 :) 17:52:32 <TrueBrain> how else will we prevent people from making language-specific ones, is my wondering there :) 17:52:48 <andythenorth_corner> oof 17:52:52 <andythenorth_corner> longtomjr sounds plausible 17:52:58 <longtomjr> TBH if the daylenth factor is 16 in that screenshot, that running cost is pretty ok 17:53:20 <andythenorth_corner> why is even daylength 17:53:25 <longtomjr> Especaially for a train that is that quick and powerfull 17:54:15 <longtomjr> I like daylength, makes server games last a lot longer ;). The 90% menu scrolling players like that :) (I am one of them) 17:54:21 *** andythenorth_corner is now known as andythenorth 17:55:25 <andythenorth> daylength is a plague, for newgrf bug report purposes 17:55:57 <longtomjr> The ideal is that folks will know daylength affects running costs 17:56:05 <longtomjr> they obviously don't 17:56:20 * andythenorth wishes daylength wasn't in the standard version of OpenTTD :P 17:56:36 <SpComb> wait what, there's daylength in the standard version of OpenTTD? 17:56:51 <TrueBrain> SpComb: with a fixed value of 1, yes 17:56:54 <andythenorth> JGRPP is the standard version 17:56:57 <SpComb> or did you mean JGRPP = standard version :P 17:56:59 <andythenorth> reddit declared some time last yeart 17:57:03 <andythenorth> year * 17:57:13 <SpComb> "Legacy OpenTTD" and "JGRPP" 17:57:21 <andythenorth> yes 17:57:26 <longtomjr> seriously 17:58:00 <andythenorth> JGRPP is what reddit (and to a lesser extent) forums direct new players to 17:58:30 <longtomjr> new players, hmm ok 17:59:01 <longtomjr> don't get me wrong, I love playing with JGRPP, but I can easily see it not being the best for new players. 17:59:55 <longtomjr> I mean milage will vary 18:05:14 * andythenorth learns about it 18:05:16 <andythenorth> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PEzFIgf4Jaw&t=262s 18:05:22 <andythenorth> what are timetables for anyway? 18:07:50 <longtomjr> Most powerful part is scheduled dispatch. It allows you to fine tune how many trains per hour goes on a route etc. 18:09:28 *** matt21347 has joined #openttd 18:11:08 <FLHerne> The OTTD timetabling system sucks for that, though 18:11:21 <longtomjr> Why? 18:12:47 * andythenorth experiments 18:13:37 <andythenorth> yeah I just don't understand timetables, no matter how many people explain them :P 18:14:05 <SpComb> TpF has some kind of spreading for trams/busses, but I don't think it has anything for trains. They sometimes get all bunched up 18:14:14 <FLHerne> Because it takes a vast amount of micromanagement to achieve useful results, and then everything breaks whenever you add more vehicles or upgrade something 18:14:34 <andythenorth> 1) why are timetables needed 2) how do they work? 18:15:04 <FLHerne> (the design issue being that the interface is vehicle-oriented rather than service/route-oriented) 18:15:33 <longtomjr> Scheduled dispatch makes the micro not that bad tbh 18:15:54 <FLHerne> andythenorth: (1) to stop vehicles bunching up, or to avoid conflicts at junctions or single-line sections 18:16:20 <andythenorth> but how does the game speed up or slow down the vehicle? 18:16:25 <FLHerne> (2) You set running times for each leg, and dwell times for each station, for each set of orders 18:16:28 <andythenorth> that's the part I don't understand 18:16:35 <FLHerne> For each vehicle, you set a start date 18:16:38 <andythenorth> the maximum speed is set by newgrf 18:16:47 <andythenorth> so how does the vehicle catch up if late? 18:16:52 <FLHerne> If the vehicle is too early, it waits at a station until it isn't 18:16:54 <longtomjr> andythenorth, if it is early, it waits at stations till its calculated departure I think 18:16:59 <FLHerne> If it's too late, it gets endlessly later 18:17:12 <FLHerne> (so, your timetable needs some slack) 18:17:19 <andythenorth> but it will inevitably be late 18:17:23 <andythenorth> due to traffic, breakdowns etc 18:17:40 <andythenorth> so slack 18:17:43 <andythenorth> ok 18:17:59 <andythenorth> and the game literally reduces the speed of the vehicles if early? 18:17:59 <FLHerne> andythenorth: I mean, real trains do that too 18:18:06 <longtomjr> That is where the automatic timetabling helps in some cases, it continually adjust for the changes 18:18:16 <FLHerne> andythenorth: Well, if "stopped" is a kind of reduced, yes 18:18:24 <andythenorth> but timetables need the speed setting? 18:18:33 <andythenorth> I have to set all the speed limits and crap 18:18:42 <longtomjr> You dont have to 18:18:47 <andythenorth> I don't? 18:18:51 <FLHerne> andythenorth: The only direct effect of a timetable on a vehicle is to prevent it leaving a station if it's early 18:18:53 <andythenorth> I've never used timetables 18:18:55 <FLHerne> It just keeps loading 18:19:01 <andythenorth> I just do that thing where you set waiting time in stations 18:19:03 <FLHerne> (even if it's full) 18:19:06 <andythenorth> that seems to work fine 18:19:16 <andythenorth> I never understood why people even want timetables 18:19:20 <andythenorth> just set the waiting time 18:19:28 <FLHerne> Because otherwise all your vehicles bunch up 18:19:40 <andythenorth> yeah but if you control the amount of vehicles per station 18:19:43 <andythenorth> and set waiting time 18:19:45 <andythenorth> they can't 18:19:51 <andythenorth> it's like a flow rate control 18:19:55 <FLHerne> That sounds like it would be ugly and messy 18:20:11 <FLHerne> Timetables would be elegant if they worked 18:20:53 <longtomjr> FLHerne, have you used scheduled dispatch before? 18:21:04 * andythenorth considers screen recording current game 18:21:17 <andythenorth> I have a non-contrived example with trains 18:21:19 <andythenorth> trams * 18:21:41 <FLHerne> longtomjr: This is a JGR thing? 18:21:57 <FLHerne> I don't think so 18:22:07 <longtomjr> I think it is a jgr thing yep 18:22:31 <longtomjr> I am by no means an expert on it, but it seems to work really well for a lot of cases. 18:22:57 <andythenorth> this is a simple route, but the trams just have 'wait for 5 days' at one of the stations https://grf.farm/images/trams-spaced.png 18:23:01 <andythenorth> so that naturally spaces them 18:23:05 <andythenorth> no timetables at all 18:23:22 <andythenorth> they do bunch outside the 'wait' station sometimes though 18:27:42 <TrueBrain> frosch123: what do you think of the language postfix on links I added? 18:28:15 <TrueBrain> https://wiki.staging.openttd.org/Category/en/Manual/Base%20Set/Manual <- I also now removed the "Other languages" category, in favour of this way of presenting it 18:31:01 <TrueBrain> https://wiki.staging.openttd.org/en/Archive/Lists/New%20Features%20since%200.7.0 <- what is wrong with release notes? Lol . this feels so double :P 18:31:45 <andythenorth> it's misplaced diligence :) 18:31:57 <andythenorth> you know how it goes :) 18:32:12 <FLHerne> longtomjr: This seems a bit kludged onto the existing system, but it is a big improvement 18:32:22 <TrueBrain> frosch123: https://wiki.staging.openttd.org/en/Community/Scenarios/Size/2048x2048.mediawiki <- pages as templates aren't fixed properly yet? 18:33:04 <TrueBrain> (I was looking for a {{Page: example to see if my implementation really works :D) 18:34:03 <TrueBrain> hmm .. 3 minutes and 45 seconds to render all pages .. that time is decreasing while we are adding features :P 18:34:28 <LordAro> TrueBrain: don't suppose i could convince you that spaces in URLs are ugly and should be replaced with underscores? 18:34:31 <TrueBrain> not sure why, honestly .. I am guessing more and more shit is removed from the export, speeding things up :D 18:34:44 <TrueBrain> LordAro: "ugly" for who? 18:34:54 <LordAro> me, looking at the links you're posting :p 18:35:02 <TrueBrain> yes .. don't look at links, click them :P 18:35:08 <TrueBrain> so much prettier that way :D 18:35:11 <LordAro> putty doesn't have clickable links :( 18:35:31 <TrueBrain> ..... I .... well, the 1% can fuck off :P :P :P 18:35:32 <TrueBrain> <3 :D 18:35:39 <TrueBrain> no, I really don't care, spaces or _ 18:35:43 <LordAro> i imagine your matrix client is doing something fancy with them 18:35:45 <TrueBrain> but know that in the wiki a lot of escaping is needed of URLs 18:36:05 <TrueBrain> https://wiki.staging.openttd.org/zh/Manual/%E4%BF%A1%E5%8F%B7%E7%81%AF 18:36:12 <TrueBrain> I mean ... links really do not get prettier 18:36:19 <LordAro> mm, you're not wrong 18:36:26 <TrueBrain> so we all kinda have to give up on making links pretty, tbh :) 18:36:42 <TrueBrain> in the browser, there it should be pretty :D 18:37:12 <LordAro> :p 18:37:20 <LordAro> https://wiki.staging.openttd.org/en/Community/Scenarios/(Don't)%20Hurt%20Your%20Eyes%20;-) should there be files here? 18:37:28 <LordAro> s/files/images/ 18:38:36 <TrueBrain> Upload 'File:Scn-DontHurtYourEyes-Screenshot.png' does not exist 18:38:36 <TrueBrain> Upload 'File:Scn-DontHurtYourEyes-Minimap.png' does not exist 18:39:41 <TrueBrain> currently, we have: 1025 invalid namespaces in links, 1069 missing templates, 1478 missing uploads and 16914 missing pages 18:39:51 <TrueBrain> NO clue how many are currently not on the wiki too 18:39:56 <TrueBrain> so those stats mean nothing :D 18:41:40 <LordAro> https://wiki.openttd.org/Scenario:(Don%27t)_Hurt_Your_Eyes_;-) well they work here :p 18:42:59 <frosch123> TrueBrain: page templates are on the list for this evening 18:43:05 <TrueBrain> frosch123: ah, sweet :) 18:43:17 <frosch123> and i am gainst replacing spaces with underscores 18:43:23 <frosch123> that adds ambiguity again 18:43:24 <TrueBrain> LordAro: yes .. together with 1476 other missing images ;) frosch123 is still busy with it :) 18:43:28 *** Gustavo6046 has quit IRC 18:43:31 <TrueBrain> frosch123: he already was convinced, I think :P 18:44:27 <LordAro> very good :) 18:44:31 *** Gustavo6046 has joined #openttd 18:44:34 <TrueBrain> frosch123: I am fixing some more errors on the live wiki btw :) 18:44:39 <TrueBrain> like the broken gallery tags in a few, etc 18:45:08 <TrueBrain> LordAro: basically, frosch123 is reading the wikitext and fixing links and figuring out what files are used etc ... but people did some weird-ass shit 18:45:12 <TrueBrain> in this case, it is an image behind a template 18:45:16 <TrueBrain> which is VERY hard to deduce 18:45:21 <TrueBrain> but we will get there :) 18:45:34 <TrueBrain> the numbers above, were over 70k errors last week :P 18:45:42 <LordAro> :) 18:46:33 <TrueBrain> but if you notice issues with how things are rendered or anything else non-content related, please let me know 18:46:36 <TrueBrain> as that for sure is not intended :) 18:46:54 <frosch123> TrueBrain: the links (language) are nice when you do not expect a link to another language. but they are confusing when you look at images which are used in all languages. https://wiki.staging.openttd.org/File/en/OpenttdManual.png <- it would be easier to read if the "used on english page" also had that language tag 18:47:25 <frosch123> TrueBrain: btw. do the link tooltips ever show something else than the link text? 18:47:30 <TrueBrain> that would require a lookup from "en" to "english", but I agree 18:47:42 <TrueBrain> frosch123: 99% of the time, no .. 18:47:47 <TrueBrain> it is one of those things mediawiki does 18:47:57 <TrueBrain> I was considering just dropping that honestly 18:48:02 <frosch123> can we show the full path in the tooltip then? 18:48:10 <TrueBrain> sure 18:48:13 <TrueBrain> we can do anything :P 18:48:15 <TrueBrain> sounds like a good idea 18:48:26 <TrueBrain> I wrote it down! 18:49:19 <frosch123> we will get a lot of pages/templates with identical names 18:49:40 <frosch123> currently we have a lot "Main Page", and i am planning to do the same for "TOC" templates 18:49:49 <frosch123> not sure yet how to name them 18:50:24 <TrueBrain> you should never see "Main Page" anywhere btw :P Well, except for source/edit 18:51:10 <frosch123> LordAro: btw. i moved all changelogs into "archive", so in the future we have a reason to only link to the website changelog, instead someone copying it to the wiki 18:51:28 <LordAro> but the links! 18:52:09 <frosch123> but i won't be surprised when translators translate the archive 18:52:25 <frosch123> i mean, they translated 10 year old talk pages... 18:52:51 <frosch123> i wonder when they translate the forums 18:53:19 <TrueBrain> haha :D 18:54:39 *** DasPoseidon has quit IRC 18:54:48 <TrueBrain> hmmm ... "View Source" doesn't show the source, it seems :P 18:55:15 <TrueBrain> yeah, pretty sure it isn't :D 18:57:33 <TrueBrain> hahahaha, oooooppppssss 18:57:41 <TrueBrain> parser functions are resolved in the source :D 18:58:54 <TrueBrain> hmmm ... opinion time frosch123 18:59:07 <TrueBrain> should "[[ File:bla.png ]]" work? (a space between [[ and File) 18:59:13 <TrueBrain> the syntax is, strictly seen: [[File 18:59:15 *** gelignite has joined #openttd 19:00:04 *** glx has joined #openttd 19:00:04 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v glx 19:00:49 <LordAro> TrueBrain: i would say no 19:00:57 <TrueBrain> an example where it breaks: https://wiki.openttd.org/?title=Template:Emoticon&action=edit 19:00:59 <frosch123> TrueBrain: yes, that should work. we also support \n in template parameters and more, so wikilinks/images should not be different 19:01:04 <TrueBrain> all those spaces break it :) 19:01:11 <frosch123> however, my conversion fixes File:\s*foobar 19:01:30 <TrueBrain> I do strip results of switches, as example 19:01:30 <frosch123> no idea how that worked in mediawiki, but maybe only in templates 19:01:44 <TrueBrain> so removing the space between [[ and {{ should be sufficient 19:02:33 <TrueBrain> it does fix it :P 19:03:10 <FLHerne> Can someone explain why action6.free_parameters belongs to action6 (and not actionD) ? 19:03:23 <TrueBrain> asking the real questions here FLHerne :) 19:03:42 <TrueBrain> frosch123: I am tempted to not support it for now, as it only breaks very rarely, and really seems easy to fix .. let's see how it goes, I would say :) 19:04:18 <FLHerne> I mean, even its own status message says "Concurrent ActionD registers: ..." 19:04:59 <frosch123> i am the culprit for naming the latter :) 19:05:05 <frosch123> no idea who put it in action6 19:05:15 <frosch123> maybe action6 was the first thing to use them 19:06:32 <TrueBrain> hmmm ... my cache file became corrupted ... oh-oh 19:06:38 <frosch123> but we have all the fancy names :) a0properties, va2variables, va2registers, a679Dparameters 19:06:54 <frosch123> properties, variables, registers, parameters :) all different 19:06:54 <FLHerne> mm 19:07:47 <FLHerne> I think that message should be 'parameters' for consistency with everything else? 19:08:35 <frosch123> then they ran out of words and had to resolve to combined terms like "patch variables" (recoined to gamesetting somewhen) 19:09:23 <FLHerne> And the generic 'storages' when you're not sure which word applies :p 19:09:39 <frosch123> FLHerne: i am not sure how consistent those terms really are. it's better to add redundancy for unambiguoty 19:10:00 <frosch123> FLHerne: do you mean temporary or persistent storage? :p 19:10:38 <FLHerne> No, permanent storage 19:10:51 <frosch123> FLHerne: i think i picked "action d registers", since nml uses "parameters" for user-defines parameters only, not those auto-allocated ones 19:11:26 <FLHerne> The code uses 'parameter' for almost everything to do with them 19:11:43 <frosch123> and the docs? 19:12:06 <FLHerne> Well, the docs don't have anything to say about NML's internals 19:20:49 *** longtomjr has quit IRC 19:25:25 <TrueBrain> frosch123: I fixed all the image errors and gallery issues on the live wiki 19:25:40 <TrueBrain> we have 36 "{{TALKPAGENAME}}" entries .. not sure what we want to do with that 19:26:24 <frosch123> TrueBrain: didn't i already fix the File: in the conversion? 19:26:40 <TrueBrain> "the File:", what are you referring to, sorry? 19:26:52 <frosch123> the image errors you are refering to 19:27:10 <TrueBrain> no, these were things you don't want to fix in your script :) 19:27:17 <TrueBrain> like people typing "grame" instead of frame 19:27:29 <TrueBrain> in the "--validate-all" it reported a few cases 19:27:57 <frosch123> https://wiki.openttd.org/?title=XUSSR_Set%2FScreenshots_gallery%2FRu&diff=101713&oldid=101159 <- pretty sure i auto-fixed that at some point, maybe i broke it again :p 19:28:26 <TrueBrain> its fixed now :P 19:28:34 <TrueBrain> sometimes it is easier to do the work than to add glue for it 19:29:07 <TrueBrain> [[:OpenTTD:Village Pump|OpenTTD:Village Pump]] 19:29:08 <TrueBrain> lol 19:29:11 <TrueBrain> stupid village pump :D 19:30:16 <frosch123> i think i trashed it, but things get confusing :p 19:30:44 <TrueBrain> https://wiki.openttd.org/OpenTTD:Taverna/Ca 19:30:49 <TrueBrain> it is ... a special page, to say the least 19:31:16 <TrueBrain> the banner links to a page that doesn't exist 19:31:54 <TrueBrain> fixed the link .. just ... because I can! 19:31:55 <TrueBrain> :D 19:32:48 <frosch123> i am not sure what to do with links to trashed pages, or TALKPAGENAME :) 19:33:04 <TrueBrain> just leave them as "dead" pages, honestly 19:33:13 <TrueBrain> and add them to your list of "known dead links" :) 19:33:29 <TrueBrain> a, I meant "dead" links, not pages 19:33:49 <TrueBrain> it will be a while before all the old crap is really removed .. it will require some manual labor, I am sure 19:34:04 <TrueBrain> we do have an active translation team by now on GitHub, hopefully they can also fix the translation on the wiki :P 19:35:32 *** DasPoseidon has joined #openttd 19:36:05 <TrueBrain> right, when-ever you make a new API export, few more issues should be fixed .. nothing more I can do for you there :) Mostly it is up to you now .. sorry :P 19:41:58 <TrueBrain> https://github.com/TrueBrain/wikitexthtml/pull/10 <- small QoL going a long way :) 19:42:42 <frosch123> hmm. when i have {{Foobar}}... what does it check first? Template:Foobar or Main:Foobar ? 19:43:51 <TrueBrain> well, last we talked about this, you said it shouldn't check either/or 19:44:03 <TrueBrain> so {{Foobar]} resolves to Template/Foobar (which doesn't exist, ever) 19:44:06 <frosch123> yes, for truewiki, for sure :) 19:44:10 <frosch123> but what does mediawiki do? 19:44:12 <TrueBrain> ah :D 19:44:15 <frosch123> i need to convert them :) 19:44:27 <TrueBrain> euh .... we have that ambiguity? 19:44:32 <TrueBrain> I think it does template first 19:44:37 <TrueBrain> but ... honestly no clue 19:44:43 <frosch123> i hope not. i went for Template: 19:44:44 <TrueBrain> I just hope nobody in his right mind would do that :P 19:45:25 *** sla_ro|master has joined #openttd 19:45:48 <frosch123> {{User:Pystro/Template:Link Translation}} <- great... 19:47:05 <frosch123> i hate translators :) 19:47:23 <TrueBrain> the Pystro ones are ... rather annoying to work your way through 19:47:26 <TrueBrain> I know from experience :( 19:48:21 *** WormnestAndroid has quit IRC 19:48:48 *** WormnestAndroid has joined #openttd 19:51:54 <TrueBrain> right, merged a bunch of fixes into truewiki .. now "source" should really be "source" :D 19:52:28 <TrueBrain> this weekend I want to finish editing 19:52:47 <TrueBrain> hopefully that is easy enough :D 20:04:27 *** Wolf01 has joined #openttd 20:08:36 <andythenorth> hmm 20:08:39 <andythenorth> boats aren't trains 20:08:45 * andythenorth realises things 20:09:45 *** D-HUND is now known as debdog 20:11:14 <frosch123> sometimes you implement one thing, and it fixes another thing 20:14:35 <FLHerne> andythenorth: Unless they're barge trains 20:17:45 <FLHerne> andythenorth: Or this https://www.pinterest.co.uk/pin/846817536162428887/ 20:26:19 <andythenorth> yes 20:28:38 <frosch123> TrueBrain: migrated page transclusions. funnily my refactoring for that also fixed a lot of other templates :p 20:31:32 *** jottyfan has joined #openttd 20:33:09 <TrueBrain> Nice!! 20:33:23 <TrueBrain> Will check it out tomorrow :D 20:33:32 <TrueBrain> How many errors left? 20:33:40 <frosch123> 7k3 20:33:50 <frosch123> it goes up and down :) 20:35:40 <TrueBrain> Wasnt it 6k a few days ago? :p 20:35:55 <frosch123> yes, then you detected more issues 20:36:08 <TrueBrain> Owh, yes ... templates missing :D 20:36:14 <frosch123> not blaming you :) 20:36:39 <TrueBrain> :D 20:37:45 <andythenorth> I think the internet has been won https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gxpOch7FapM 20:39:42 *** jottyfan has quit IRC 20:53:23 <andythenorth> oof I thought maybe ship types would be like train types 20:53:28 <andythenorth> so Water Horse, or Water Hog 20:53:34 <andythenorth> doesn't match up though 20:53:43 * andythenorth Redesign! 20:54:13 <frosch123> 6k7 21:06:48 <TrueBrain> Like watching an election in reverse :D 21:32:06 <Heiki> there’s railtypes and roadtypes, but when will we have watertypes? 21:32:27 <frosch123> we have waterclasses 21:33:24 <frosch123> sea, river, canal 21:33:40 *** tokai|noir has joined #openttd 21:33:40 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai|noir 21:33:45 <Heiki> ah, true 21:34:01 <Heiki> but no electrified canals yet 21:34:15 <Heiki> (also airtypes) 21:34:43 <LordAro> short & long runways/planes 21:35:03 <LordAro> :p 21:35:15 <LordAro> and helicopters, of course 21:36:30 <andythenorth> is it naptime? 21:36:36 <frosch123> Heiki: nuts has wetrail 21:36:58 <frosch123> andythenorth: it's weekend for me :p 21:38:04 <andythenorth> cheating 21:38:10 <andythenorth> haxor! 21:40:36 *** tokai has quit IRC 21:42:53 *** bunburya_ has quit IRC 21:44:49 *** DasPoseidon has quit IRC 21:46:42 *** Wolf01 has quit IRC 21:47:29 *** tokai|noir has quit IRC 21:48:02 <frosch123> 5k4 21:48:29 *** iSoSyS has joined #openttd 21:49:44 <andythenorth> x/y% 21:58:45 <frosch123> how weird, my query of WantedPages seems to be incomplete 22:09:17 <frosch123> ok, i hit a mediawiki bug :) 22:09:55 <frosch123> the pagination of wantedpages does not work, it sorts the pages indeterministic 22:10:07 <frosch123> so i get many duplicates and many missing 22:10:45 <frosch123> https://wiki.openttd.org/?title=Special:WantedPages&limit=500&offset=4000 <- yeah, different results on every reload :/ 22:11:01 <frosch123> i guess i just reload it 10 times, and hope to hit most :p 22:19:11 *** jottyfan has joined #openttd 22:20:51 <frosch123> hey, results are stable after 4 reloads 22:21:24 *** jottyfan has quit IRC 22:23:13 <frosch123> 3k6.... 22:23:26 <frosch123> that's the most stupid reduction due to a mediawiki bug :) 22:28:21 <TrueBrain> That is insane.... 22:28:44 <andythenorth> :) 22:28:47 *** sla_ro|master2 has joined #openttd 22:29:06 <TrueBrain> Well, seriously fucked up even :p 22:32:05 <frosch123> ok, 5 cases of " " after "[[" 22:32:19 <frosch123> fixed them with the script, let's rerun the check 22:33:03 <frosch123> hmm, i guess the same applies for " " after "{{" ? 22:33:29 *** sla_ro|master has quit IRC 22:33:57 *** gelignite has quit IRC 22:37:39 *** matt21347 has quit IRC 22:39:25 <TrueBrain> Likely, but possibly not :D 22:39:42 <TrueBrain> Initially I stripped everything .. but that does break some things too :p 22:40:16 *** WormnestAndroid has quit IRC 22:40:29 *** WormnestAndroid has joined #openttd 22:43:03 *** sla_ro|master2 has quit IRC 22:46:28 *** HerzogDeXtEr1 has quit IRC 22:47:44 *** andythenorth has quit IRC 22:49:40 <frosch123> [[<!--AI:Main Page-->SI:Strona_główna/Pl|NoAI Framework]] <- great... 22:49:44 *** Progman has quit IRC 22:55:11 *** tokai has joined #openttd 22:55:11 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai 23:01:44 *** frosch123 has quit IRC 23:03:38 *** k-man has quit IRC 23:05:51 *** k-man has joined #openttd 23:25:11 *** iSoSyS has quit IRC 23:30:37 *** Wormnest has quit IRC 23:47:50 *** Flygon has joined #openttd