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Log for #openttd on 20th March 2024:
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00:01:52  <xarick> omg, how many trains/wagons exist in iron horse 3.14.0 ?
00:04:01  <peter1138> Some would say ... enough.
00:04:11  <xarick> my poor AI
00:04:43  <xarick> is experimenting all train/wagon compatibility of all available engines
00:04:55  <xarick> attachment testing
00:05:01  <_glx_> oh there are many variants
00:06:07  <xarick> never imagined the cause of my AI apparent slowdown was due to the insane amount of engines being tested
00:06:26  <_glx_> maybe API needs to know about variants
00:06:50  <xarick> there really should be a way to check if a train can pull a wagon
00:07:03  <xarick> without buying to test it
00:07:42  <_glx_> it's impossible, newgrf needs a real vehicle for callbacks
00:09:10  <_glx_> and in iron horse many wagons are just duplicates (variants with same data but different colours)
00:10:57  <Eddi|zuHause> maybe it's time to revive the AI callback?
00:11:01  <xarick> testing attachments since 1935, it's 1943 now
00:11:45  <xarick> it's a one time thing, but gee...
00:11:46  <Eddi|zuHause> given an engine and a cargo, and a usage pattern, the AI callback will return a fitting wagon
00:12:51  <_glx_> but newgrf rarely implement it
00:13:09  <Eddi|zuHause> yes, because OpenTTD never used it
00:18:38  <peter1138> Chicken & egg.
00:19:18  <Eddi|zuHause> back when noai was introduced, i was told off for suggesting to implement it...
00:21:34  <_glx_> if you want some fun, try dbset where some engines require a specific amount of passenger cars
00:21:51  <_glx_> or old UKRS and the mandatory caboose
00:21:59  <peter1138> And that's from 2004 or something :p
00:23:49  <_glx_> it might be simpler to use <https://docs.openttd.org/ai-api/classAINewGRF> and have predetermined consists hardcoded in the AI source
00:24:42  <_glx_> and fallback to your expensive method for unknown newgrf
00:25:05  <_glx_> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1008473233844097104/1219803866275647558/image.png?ex=660ca1e0&is=65fa2ce0&hm=cb3638c6d1b2dd932af2eb3eac1b5a13ba56ff891af3573f7a5034d120217e2d&
00:25:19  <_glx_> that's just a lot of combinations 🙂
00:25:29  <peter1138> Implementing the callback to allow AIs to use it doesn't mean AIs need to use it.
00:25:46  <peter1138> But, uh, difficult to test without much source material 🙂
00:26:15  <_glx_> I think dbset had the AI callback
00:27:16  <peter1138> IIRC the callback is able to return special AI-only vehicles which allow the AI to cheat. So that'll have to be filtered out.
00:28:02  <Eddi|zuHause> well, the command to actually purchase the returned vehicle should take care of that
00:28:29  <_glx_> oh and nml doesn't implement CB18 🙂
00:28:49  <Eddi|zuHause> that's a different problem :p
00:29:31  <_glx_> many newgrf are written with nml, so without nml support it's not very useful
00:30:21  <_glx_> ah and the CB doesn't support railtypes or NRT
00:33:36  <peter1138> Or multiple NewGRFs.
00:34:08  <_glx_> "This makes it possible to leave certain decisions to the previous handler and allows some cooperation between several .grf files. "
00:34:20  <_glx_> it's supposed to support multiple grf
00:34:24  <peter1138> Oh so it does 🙂
00:35:06  <_glx_> but "For trains, the track types (0=regular, 1=electric, 2=monorail, 3=maglev) are automatically mapped as appropriate depending on the electrifiedrailways/unifiedmaglev switches."
00:35:14  <_glx_> that's quite limiting
00:36:46  <peter1138> Almost like it wasn't implemented for a reason 😄
00:38:14  <_glx_> I really think it's simpler to check for newgrf presence and provide working association directly in the AI code
00:40:29  <_glx_> or introduce variants support in the API so it's possible to filter them out
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22:55:13  <rau117> andythenorth: Hmm... on the other hand, being able to place a fence (or some other object) on top of another tile would be nice.
22:55:13  <rau117> This will cause problems, but it will create a lot of new decorating opportunities
22:58:34  <peter1138> Remember when tile-edge signals was the meme...
23:27:05  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] MontyMontana opened issue #12344: [Bug]: Root directory has changed since previous versions and can not be changed. https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/issues/12344

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