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00:00:03 *** michi_cc has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 00:30:58 *** Lakie has quit IRC 01:05:57 *** KenjiE20 has quit IRC 02:26:15 *** supermop has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 05:34:16 <Brot6> Bundles Update: gb865c262 2011-03-15 cargodist (http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/cargodist) 05:46:15 *** supermop has left #openttdcoop.devzone 10:49:31 <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Feature Request #2437 (New): Industry Spawning (V453000) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/2437 11:18:22 <planetmaker> V453000, ok, then I'll keep the issue open and I'll close it when I have graphics which show that a symmetric engine is reversed (in depots) 11:18:40 <V453000> :) awesome 11:18:43 <planetmaker> for now only non-symmetric engines can reverse 11:18:54 <planetmaker> double - headed can't reverse anyway 11:19:21 <V453000> yes... well, since you always have the oldest steamers available, it is fine for now :) 11:49:25 *** KenjiE20 has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 11:50:40 *** Rubidium has quit IRC 11:50:42 *** Rubidium has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 12:52:38 *** andythenorth has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 12:52:47 <andythenorth> Yexo: I just pulled CHIPS ;) 12:52:49 <andythenorth> thanks for doing that 12:53:33 <Yexo> np :) it's awaiting more graphics now 12:53:46 <Yexo> #2432 is really problematic 12:53:46 <Brot6> Yexo: #2432 is http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/show/2432 "CHIPS Station Set - Feature #2432: Plain terrain tile - may be problematic - #openttdcoop Development Zone" 12:53:51 <Yexo> I'm not sure it's doable at all 12:53:58 <andythenorth> yeah 12:54:00 <andythenorth> I wondered 12:54:10 <andythenorth> doing that for industries was....boring 12:54:26 <Yexo> actually, it's perfectly doable as long as you don't care about cargo on those tiles 12:54:28 <andythenorth> and iirc, required checking multiple vars 12:54:50 <andythenorth> I think importance of cargo > importance of having a terrain tile station 12:55:19 <Yexo> I just meant no cargo on the terrain tile station 12:55:59 <andythenorth> I think that wouldn't be desirable 12:56:08 <andythenorth> it would be confusing wrt to the other tiles 12:56:16 <andythenorth> I don't want to have to write explanatory strings :P 12:56:20 <Yexo> agreed 12:56:21 <andythenorth> and there's no place to put them anyway 13:05:00 <andythenorth> Yexo: are the platforms sensitive to the amount of cargo waiting? 13:05:11 <Yexo> yes 13:05:18 <andythenorth> I scanned the code, but couldn't see at first glance ;) 13:05:24 <Yexo> it's the action2 13:05:35 <Yexo> there are 2 sets for lots of cargo 13:05:46 <andythenorth> oh yes 13:06:09 <Yexo> maximum amount (in ttd) was 4096, so the switch point is at 4096/2=2048 13:06:23 <Yexo> so currently you're very unlikely to see the graphics for a lot of cargo 13:06:34 <andythenorth> yes 13:06:46 <andythenorth> wonder if that should be user-configurable? 13:06:55 <andythenorth> I am on a war against parameters, but seem to be losing 13:07:09 <Yexo> I don't think this should be configurable 13:07:34 <Yexo> though shifting the balance away from 2048 to a lower value is a good idea 13:07:43 <andythenorth> yes 13:07:48 <andythenorth> my taste would be ~500t 13:07:57 <Yexo> agreed 13:08:02 <andythenorth> and make it a define :) 13:08:07 <Yexo> I just wasn't sure if you planned to draw more graphics 13:08:17 <andythenorth> not for levels of cargo 13:08:29 <andythenorth> I am more concerned about the uniform appearance 13:08:40 <andythenorth> I need to think on for that 13:08:42 <Yexo> the easiest way would be to just change the action2, but for that you can't use a define 13:09:05 <Yexo> change the number of sets from 2 to 8 and just repeat the second set for sets 3..8 13:09:22 <Yexo> that means the turnover point is at 4096/8 13:09:36 <andythenorth> one piece of templated code used by all platforms? 13:09:42 <Yexo> yes 13:09:54 <Yexo> actually two, one for track tiles and one for empty tiles 13:10:19 * planetmaker senses a certain template-mania ;-) 13:11:23 <Yexo> http://devs.openttd.org/~yexo/500.diff that is all 13:16:23 <andythenorth> nesting templates can be a good pattern 13:16:26 <andythenorth> or a bad one :P 13:16:53 <V453000> andythenorth: http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/2437 13:18:05 <andythenorth> V453000: it's a trunk feature request ;) 13:18:17 <andythenorth> newgrf can't influence most of that 13:18:45 <andythenorth> I tried to track the number of types of an industry and prevent closure if there are too few, but even that was problematic 13:18:46 <V453000> :o :) 13:19:01 <andythenorth> however the changes to industry that alberth did should have helped 13:19:12 <andythenorth> dunno if they're in 1.0 though 13:19:37 <andythenorth> personally....I turn closure off ;) 13:20:31 <V453000> well, that is nice but not for "casual" servers ;) 13:21:58 <andythenorth> alberth's code tries to maintain a certain ratio of different industry types 13:22:07 <andythenorth> so if there is not enough of one kind, they're increased 13:22:11 <andythenorth> I don't know how it works though 13:22:41 <V453000> I see 13:22:46 <V453000> that would be nice :) 13:23:13 <V453000> by the way ... how far do fishing grounds grow on production? 13:24:09 <andythenorth> they don't 13:24:12 <andythenorth> currently 13:24:31 <andythenorth> they're like training wheels 13:24:35 <andythenorth> they're a good starter chain 13:24:44 <andythenorth> but you can't grow them to a massive empire :) 13:27:47 <V453000> :( 13:27:48 <Ammler> btw. are the network issues with devzone gone? 13:28:12 <andythenorth> Ammler: no issues for me ; 13:28:14 <Ammler> (openttd stable & bouncer) 13:28:14 <andythenorth> ;) 13:28:33 <Ammler> web is mostly no issue with such things 13:28:50 <Ammler> @topic remove -1 13:28:55 <Ammler> @services op 13:28:55 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o Webster 13:28:57 <Ammler> @topic remove -1 13:28:57 *** Webster changes topic to "Talk about things hosted and developed on http://dev.openttdcoop.org | Downloads log: http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/log.csv | Sandbox passwords are the same as the usernames" 13:37:05 <Terkhen> Ammler: I had no further connection problems since last time either 13:39:40 <Ammler> so we can definitly blame hetzner for the issues :-) 14:12:31 <andythenorth> I'm going to add parameters to HEQS to hide groups of vehicles 14:12:40 <andythenorth> how fine-grained should the groups be? 14:12:43 <andythenorth> trams / trucks 14:12:51 <andythenorth> trams / bulldozers & tractors / trucks 14:13:18 <andythenorth> trams / bulldozers / tractors / dump trucks / logging trucks / foundry trucks / mog / rail mog 14:13:28 <andythenorth> each vehicle has an on/off parameter? 14:13:41 <andythenorth> ultimately I slightly don't really care :o 14:13:50 <andythenorth> as I will always turn all of them on 14:14:20 <Terkhen> I agree that by default all of them should be on 14:15:12 <Terkhen> and besides the trams/truck separation (which would be nice IMO), I don't mind much the smaller groups either 14:15:18 <andythenorth> planetmaker / Ammler you setup MP games - any opinions? ^^ 14:15:25 <andythenorth> my preference is: 14:15:43 <andythenorth> trams / less-weird RVs / more-weird RVs 14:16:38 <andythenorth> maybe two parameters 14:16:41 <andythenorth> trams: on | off 14:16:58 <andythenorth> other vehicles: not weird | some weird | fully weird 14:17:05 <andythenorth> :P 14:20:38 <Terkhen> I have been using the mog in my current FIRS game for delivering supplies, they are quite good at that :) 14:21:14 <andythenorth> that's what they were made for ;) 14:21:24 <andythenorth> irl less so 14:22:40 <Ammler> disabling either trams or rvs would be fine 14:23:05 <andythenorth> I also had a request to hide the bulldozers 14:23:11 <andythenorth> AIs clog towns with them 14:23:31 <Ammler> that is a sp feature :-) 14:23:53 <andythenorth> I am happy to make these changes, but I can only spec things I care personally about :D 14:23:55 <Ammler> (mostly) 14:24:11 <andythenorth> as I don't care about this, I am waiting on 'someone' to devise a workable spec :) 14:24:26 <Ammler> hmm, iirc I made a ticket about 14:25:06 <Ammler> #1967 14:25:06 <Brot6> Ammler: #1967 is http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/show/1967 "HEQS "Heavy Equipment" Set - Feature #1967: disable either trams or rvs - #openttdcoop Development Zone" 14:26:11 <Ammler> heqs has a damn lot open tickets :-P 14:26:19 <andythenorth> only 33 14:26:23 <andythenorth> you should see FIRS :P 14:26:35 <andythenorth> there's only one me :( 14:27:58 <Ammler> well, only 20 non HEQS2 14:28:29 <andythenorth> some of them are just reminders 14:28:38 <andythenorth> it's just a big backlog 14:28:53 <andythenorth> until I pull them into a version, there's no guarantee they'll ever be done :) 14:29:09 <Ammler> so pull 1967 to 1.0.1 ;-) 14:29:40 <andythenorth> I might 14:29:44 <Ammler> :-D 14:29:53 <andythenorth> the problem is it doesn't solve the problem for players who want bulldozers removed 14:30:01 <andythenorth> and do those players also want tractors removed? 14:30:05 <andythenorth> brrrr 14:31:22 <Ammler> well, but isn't bulldozers and tractors the whole point of heqs? 14:31:34 <andythenorth> nah, mining trucks was :) 14:31:42 <andythenorth> the bulldozers have almost no gameplay value 14:31:49 <andythenorth> I just got carried away drawing 14:32:03 <Ammler> for isr 14:32:17 <andythenorth> more or less yes 14:33:08 <Ammler> for scenario development, it would be nice to disable trams or rvs, the other part I don't care 14:34:36 <Ammler> it might make sense for ais, but shouldn't they be able to decide that? 14:35:00 <andythenorth> I dunno 14:35:08 <Ammler> something like get speed and cap and chose 14:35:27 <andythenorth> they get the capacity of the bulldozer and decide that it's awesome :P 14:35:45 <andythenorth> someone else said it's an AI issue and I shouldn't pay attention to it 14:35:56 <Ammler> I would agree tot that 14:36:18 <Ammler> (but not really much experience with ais) 14:36:41 <andythenorth> maybe I do your ticket 14:36:45 <andythenorth> then wait for feedback 14:36:49 <andythenorth> perfect is enemy of good 14:37:03 <andythenorth> next problem: I can't do your ticket :P 14:37:04 <Ammler> but having trams in a rv set is not ideal for scenario development 14:37:22 <andythenorth> I see the issue 14:37:48 <andythenorth> I don't know how to implement parameters to solve it yet :P 14:38:04 <Ammler> there are worse things though 14:38:07 <andythenorth> probably action 6 or 7 setting climate to 00 / 0F appropriately 14:38:49 <Ammler> yes, afaik that is best to keep it compatible 14:38:59 <andythenorth> #1677 14:38:59 <Brot6> andythenorth: #1677 is http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/show/1677 "HEQS "Heavy Equipment" Set - Feature #1677: See if some vehicles can be hidden from AI. - #openttdcoop Development Zone" 14:39:42 <Brot6> HEQS "Heavy Equipment" Set - Feature #1967: disable either trams or rvs (andythenorth) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/1967#change-6208 14:39:53 <andythenorth> Ammler: I disagree with your thesis that one newgrf shouldn't define multiple vehicle types 14:39:59 <andythenorth> but I agree with your solution 14:40:30 <Ammler> yeah, it is just bad behavior, it is solveable in most cases 14:40:51 <Ammler> it isn't a bug, just a glitch :-P 14:41:56 <Ammler> also the problem is gone when roadtypes are introduced 14:43:47 <Ammler> hmm, no. you still have the issue for competition 14:44:38 <andythenorth> yes 14:44:44 <andythenorth> the problem is reduced by rv-wagons 14:44:49 <andythenorth> but not eliminated 14:44:58 <andythenorth> (the AI won't know how to use rv-wagons) :D 14:46:58 <Ammler> the worst set which does mix different types is alpine 14:47:14 <Ammler> the canadian sets offer also switches 14:47:33 <andythenorth> HEQS will deliberately mix all types soon ;) 14:47:42 <andythenorth> trams, RVs, trains, ships, planes 14:47:57 <andythenorth> but no industries, stations or houses, or road or railtypes 14:47:59 <planetmaker> andythenorth, I've no particular preference 14:48:01 <andythenorth> or cargos 14:48:05 <planetmaker> trams / other rv might be nice 14:48:23 <andythenorth> I think that's the better route for now 14:49:02 <planetmaker> and as you said, maybe "real heavy equipment (off road) vs. "large trucks (on road)" 14:49:06 <andythenorth> next...to code it :) 14:49:06 <planetmaker> if that can be appropriate 14:49:34 <Ammler> mising trams and rvs is bad for scenario development, mixing with trains/ships/planes just for competition 14:51:10 <Ammler> best would be 2 seperate newgrfs :-) 14:52:06 * Ammler is dreaming of the region based newgrf patch ;-) 14:54:14 <Ammler> hmm, does openttd use perl already (for building)? 15:18:09 <andythenorth> Yexo: the 4096 / 2 is the default cargo threshhold? 15:18:17 <andythenorth> i.e. it's not explicitly defined anywhere in code yet? 15:18:27 <andythenorth> it's an action 0 prop I need to set? 15:18:48 <Yexo> the amount of cargo is split between all groups in your action2 15:18:56 <Yexo> ehm, maximum amoutn of cargo 15:19:03 <Yexo> the maximum is 4096 for historic reasons 15:19:22 <Yexo> so with 2 groups (like right now) the threshhold for switching is 4096/2 15:19:22 <andythenorth> it seems analogous to loading / loaded states for vehicles 15:19:31 <Yexo> exactly 15:32:31 <andythenorth> yay 15:32:33 * andythenorth may have it 15:38:08 <Brot6> CHIPS Station Set - Revision 62:bf6e70dbbbc7: Change: implement little / lots cargo threshold (us... (andythenorth) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/chips/repository/revisions/bf6e70dbbbc7 15:39:23 <andythenorth> Yexo: I thought maybe more action 1 / 2 / 3 code could be shared between the track / non-track tiles....but it seems not? 15:39:46 <andythenorth> looks like there might be too many minor differences to bother unifying it? 15:39:52 <Yexo> I don't see how 15:39:58 <Yexo> the action1 is completely different 15:40:19 <Yexo> the action2 is approximately the same, but the varaction2 is different again 15:40:25 <andythenorth> yes 15:40:34 <andythenorth> well changing in two places is fine 15:40:43 <andythenorth> (for maintaining) 15:40:56 <andythenorth> I'm not currently planning many more tile types 15:41:11 <andythenorth> I'm not sure how graphical variations are handled 15:41:20 <andythenorth> I thought maybe they are just more layouts in the action 0? 15:42:26 *** Lakie has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 15:45:27 <Brot6> CHIPS Station Set - Revision 63:0d1a3f5c5445: Change: swap WOOD for WDPR in action 3 (lumber grap... (andythenorth) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/chips/repository/revisions/0d1a3f5c5445 15:45:27 <Brot6> CHIPS Station Set - Revision 64:d20e670c4d5c: Change: remove pink guides from Lumber graphics (andythenorth) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/chips/repository/revisions/d20e670c4d5c 15:47:19 <Brot6> CHIPS Station Set - Feature #2432 (Rejected): Plain terrain tile - may be problematic (andythenorth) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/2432#change-6209 15:48:07 <andythenorth> Yexo: do you see any reason to not template the action 3? 15:48:29 <Yexo> nope, that's fine 15:49:04 <Yexo> you'll have to take care to copy the THIS_SET_ID defines above correctly, unless you can also template those 15:49:21 <andythenorth> ok thanks 15:55:09 <Brot6> CHIPS Station Set - Revision 65:1e69d2420639: Change: use crates for BRCK cargo (andythenorth) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/chips/repository/revisions/1e69d2420639 15:55:09 <Brot6> CHIPS Station Set - Feature #2423 (Closed): List of cargos using crates (andythenorth) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/2423#change-6210 16:06:15 <Brot6> CHIPS Station Set - Feature #2438 (New): Cargo graphics for Coal (andythenorth) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/2438 16:06:15 <Brot6> CHIPS Station Set - Feature #2439 (New): Cargo graphics for Iron Ore (andythenorth) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/2439 16:07:04 <Brot6> CHIPS Station Set - Feature #2440 (New): Cargo graphics for Sand (andythenorth) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/2440 16:07:04 <Brot6> CHIPS Station Set - Feature #2441 (New): Cargo graphics for Clay (andythenorth) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/2441 16:07:04 <Brot6> CHIPS Station Set - Feature #2442 (New): Cargo graphics for Bauxite (andythenorth) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/2442 16:17:59 <Brot6> CHIPS Station Set - Feature #2443 (New): Cargo graphics for Stone (andythenorth) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/2443 16:28:33 <andythenorth> Yexo: do you think we can just suppress the spurious renum output? 16:28:39 <andythenorth> it masks genuine errors :O 16:28:48 <Yexo> that seems like the best idea for now 16:29:09 <Yexo> I've looked at the nforenum source, but couldn't figure out how to disable the erroneous warning 209's 16:29:47 <Yexo> both the list of warnings for the action6's and for the action0's are wrong 16:30:49 <Yexo> just checked, all 209 warnings in the current code are wrong 16:33:30 <Brot6> CHIPS Station Set - Revision 66:f871d6936de8: Change: suppress error 209 (not a valid error) (andythenorth) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/chips/repository/revisions/f871d6936de8 16:44:06 <Brot6> CHIPS Station Set - Feature #2440 (Closed): Cargo graphics for Sand (andythenorth) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/2440 16:44:06 <Brot6> CHIPS Station Set - Revision 67:bd7eb69f0f7f: Change: template action 3 for simple tiles (andythenorth) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/chips/repository/revisions/bd7eb69f0f7f 16:44:06 <Brot6> CHIPS Station Set - Revision 68:162756a4dcbc: Feature: cargo graphics for Sand (closes #2440) (andythenorth) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/chips/repository/revisions/162756a4dcbc 16:44:07 <Brot6> CHIPS Station Set - Feature #2440 (Closed): Cargo graphics for Sand (andythenorth) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/2440#change-6211 16:50:35 <Brot6> CHIPS Station Set - Revision 69:a725cb326385: Fix: missing files (don't commit when jet-lagged) (andythenorth) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/chips/repository/revisions/a725cb326385 16:50:42 <andythenorth> oops :( 16:52:17 <andythenorth> hmm 16:52:23 <andythenorth> my FIRS stone isn't very stoney :o 17:08:11 <andythenorth> the FIRS quarrry doesn't have grey stone 17:08:15 <andythenorth> for...legacy reasons 17:08:22 <andythenorth> I guess most people think stone should be grey? 17:08:51 <andythenorth> irl it can be many colours, but probably grey is what people would draw if given crayons... 17:09:44 <Terkhen> I think grey too 17:10:02 <andythenorth> I figured :P 17:10:20 <andythenorth> this quarry station is going to steal away my joy for a few hours :( 17:18:32 <Brot6> chips: update from r55 to r69 done - http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/chips/nightlies/r69 17:19:04 <Brot6> ogfx-trains: update from r220 to r224 done - http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/ogfx-trains/nightlies/r224 17:19:11 <Brot6> Following repos didn't need a nightlies update: 2cctrainset (r743), 32bpp-extra (r39), ai-admiralai (r75), ai-aroai (r11), ailib-common (r21), ailib-direction (r17), ailib-list (r32), ailib-string (r29), ailib-tile (r16), airportsplus (r73), basecosts (r22), belarusiantowns (r8), bros (r52), comic-houses (r71), firs (r1857), fish (r617), frenchtowns (r6), grfcodec (r825), heqs (r580), indonesiantowns (r41), manindu (r7), metrotrackset 17:19:11 <Brot6> (r56), narvs (r29), newgrf_makefile (ERROR r263), nml (r1286), nutracks (r179), ogfx-industries (r12), ogfx-landscape (r58), ogfx-rv (r80), ogfx-trees (r42), opengfx (r618), openmsx (r97), opensfx (r97), smts (r19), snowlinemod (r49), spanishtowns (r10), swedishrails (r198), swisstowns (r22), transrapidtrackset (r15), ttdviewer (r26), ttrs (r36), worldairlinersset (r671) 17:19:45 <Brot6> newgrf_makefile: compile of r263 still failed (#2435) - http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/newgrf_makefile/nightlies/ERROR/r263 17:37:10 <Ammler> planetmaker: linter error ^ :-) 17:37:45 <Ammler> http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/newgrf_makefile/nightlies/ERROR/r263/newgrf_makefile-r263-testing.log <-- Fatal nforenum error! 17:40:22 <Ammler> minium for nfo header are 3 comments afaik 17:41:56 <Lakie> Hmm. 17:41:56 <Ammler> you need to add the Escapes anyway, else you might get rebuild issues, we had that already 17:42:03 * Lakie has a quick look at the sources 17:42:27 <Lakie> Maybe, oly really needed for peeps using old versions of nforenum / grfcodec 17:42:30 <planetmaker> yes... I might as well just revert that commit with the first thing 17:42:39 <planetmaker> s/thing/sprite/ 17:42:43 *** planetmaker has left #openttdcoop.devzone 17:42:50 <Ammler> nah, then the header will be ignored 17:42:51 *** planetmaker has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 17:42:55 <Ammler> nah, then the header will be ignored 17:43:00 <Ammler> as it was now 17:43:12 <Ammler> then you could as good trash that file 17:43:18 <Lakie> Lines 1-5 shouldn't be in the header.pnfo 17:43:33 <Lakie> With the current nfoheader and makefile system 17:44:10 <Lakie> (Partly because nfoheader from memory is always put in front anyway, rendering those useless) 17:44:13 <Ammler> is there a project using that file already? 17:44:33 <Lakie> The default one does? 17:44:42 <Ammler> default one? 17:45:14 <Lakie> example nfo project. 17:45:44 <Ammler> yes, I meant is there another project which does use that header from there? 17:45:56 <Lakie> I noticed it whilst working on the finnish set, due to the include system leaving # tags, it always puts nfo header infront 17:46:10 <Lakie> Otherwise grfcodec and such would choke on the first # line 17:46:55 <Lakie> first line bing a # line* 17:48:12 <Ammler> you might just miss "// Format: spritenum pcxfile xpos ypos compression ysize xsize xrel yrel" as 3rd line 17:48:16 <Lakie> But feel free to revert it, it makes little difference overall, it ignores the // lines in the header.pnfo, and moves the sprite count 17:49:17 <Lakie> The error comes from the second sprite count declarion 17:49:35 <Ammler> ? 17:49:44 <Lakie> since it has it in nfo header, automatically added by make, when it comes to the one in header.pnfo, it treats it as a normal sprite 17:49:54 <Lakie> = error 17:50:24 <Lakie> Have a look at mygrf.nfo if you can 17:51:01 <Lakie> You'll see the header, #'s, then the header from header.pnfo followed by sprite '1' being a sprite count causing the error 17:51:13 <Ammler> ah stupid me 17:51:24 <planetmaker> hm, right 17:51:26 <andythenorth> FIRS quarry stations are quite sucky so far 17:51:31 <andythenorth> I might need to rethink 17:51:39 <planetmaker> CHIPS? 17:51:44 <andythenorth> yes 17:52:05 <andythenorth> particularly when they flick between sand / stone graphics 17:52:15 <andythenorth> maybe I should just use one set of graphics for both cargos 17:53:05 <planetmaker> stones may be coarser 17:53:29 <Brot6> CHIPS Station Set - Feature #2443 (Closed): Cargo graphics for Stone (andythenorth) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/2443 17:53:29 <Brot6> CHIPS Station Set - Revision 70:3ed826c24835: Feature: cargo graphics for Stone (closes #2443) (andythenorth) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/chips/repository/revisions/3ed826c24835 17:53:29 <Brot6> CHIPS Station Set - Revision 71:e5379a4a9565: Feature: improve Quarry ground tile (andythenorth) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/chips/repository/revisions/e5379a4a9565 17:53:30 <Brot6> CHIPS Station Set - Feature #2443 (Closed): Cargo graphics for Stone (andythenorth) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/2443#change-6222 17:53:38 <Lakie> planetmaker's changes were partly based off what I decided to do with the finnish set, moving the sprite count to the nfo header and dropping the header stuff from header.pnfo completely. 17:55:08 <Ammler> so removing the hader and counter from http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/newgrf-makefile/repository/entry/sprites/nfo/header.pnfo should fix it? 17:55:47 <Ammler> the header is included without #include? 17:56:45 <Ammler> (confusing) 17:57:04 <Lakie> Aye 17:57:12 <Lakie> Apparently, the pnfo's become a cnfo 17:57:35 * andythenorth is confused 17:57:41 <Lakie> Then the final nfo is cat nfoheader.pnfo? mygrf.cnfo > mygrf.nfo by the looks of it 17:57:44 <andythenorth> I should change FIRS Supplies behaviour? 17:58:08 <Lakie> Thus rendering any header information in any pnfo useless 18:00:11 <Lakie> Thats what observation of it before planetmaker's changes showed, which is why I exploited it as such. 18:10:28 <Lakie> If that makes sense to you Ammler and planetmaker? 18:11:48 <Ammler> he, the header should be added to the top of the final nfo which got piped to nforenum 18:13:12 <Ammler> hg parent --template "{extras}\n" | perl -ne '/convert_revision=svn:[^@]+@(\d+)/ and print "\n"' 18:13:18 <Ammler> how make that without perl? 18:13:25 <planetmaker> andythenorth, FIRS supply behaviour IMHO is fine 18:13:29 <planetmaker> as default 18:13:43 <planetmaker> And somewhen V's suggested additions might be nice 18:14:20 <Ammler> or is using perl for bulding no issue? 18:14:53 <Ammler> (afaik, grfcodec does use it too and nobody complained :-) 18:15:12 *** frosch123 has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 18:15:26 <Ammler> is it possible to setup a system without perl? 18:15:38 <planetmaker> Lakie, cat nfoheader.nfo > proejctfile.cnfo; gcc project-file.pnfo >> project-file.cnfo; nforenum cnfo > nfo; grfcodec nfo 18:15:49 <Rubidium> Ammler: ofcourse 18:16:40 <Lakie> Ok, 18:17:56 <Ammler> Rubidium: basically it would need something get "branch=defaultconvert_revision=svn:6aa0318a-3be1-0310-93fa-89fd2396df07/trunk@22208" --> 22208 18:18:33 <Ammler> but the part before convert_revision could be different and maybe there is something after the revision 18:19:03 <Rubidium> then how is it split? 18:19:15 <Ammler> it isn't 18:19:37 <Ammler> that is why it needs regex 18:19:52 <Rubidium> I doubt there isn't a separator of some sort after the revision if stuff it trailing it 18:20:28 <Ammler> there isn't one between branch=default and convert_revision... 18:21:14 <Ammler> well, you could use hg parent --debug 18:21:15 <Rubidium> then you can't do it at all, after all you might start an identifier with a number 18:22:17 <Ammler> hg parent --debug | grep convert_revision | sed 's/.*@//' 18:36:22 <Ammler> btw. a wiki engine, which frosch and planetmaker surely would like: http://moinmo.in/ 18:36:23 <Webster> Title: MoinMoinWiki - MoinMoin (at moinmo.in) 18:38:15 <frosch123> fjb as well 18:38:52 <frosch123> but actually "moinmoin" is wrong. trve people only say "moin" 18:41:54 <Ammler> :-) 19:14:14 <Brot6> 2cc train set - Revision 746:42d62091e25d: Add: All railbus,mus and Metros by Voyager1 drawn lately (DJNekkid) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/2cctrainset/repository/revisions/42d62091e25d 19:16:21 <Brot6> feed NewGRFs had 15 updates, showing the latest 10 19:16:21 <Brot6> 2cc train set - Feature #2250 (Closed): TCDD E8000 (DJNekkid) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/2250#change-6233 19:16:21 <Brot6> 2cc train set - Feature #2294 (Closed): FS ETR200 (DJNekkid) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/2294#change-6237 19:16:21 <Brot6> 2cc train set - Feature #2326 (Closed): GWR AEC Railcar (DJNekkid) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/2326#change-6243 19:16:22 <Brot6> 2cc train set - Feature #2315 (Closed): Singapore C151A (DJNekkid) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/2315#change-6241 19:16:25 <Brot6> 2cc train set - Feature #2313 (Closed): Singapore C830 Metropolis (DJNekkid) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/2313#change-6240 19:16:30 <Brot6> 2cc train set - Feature #2300 (Closed): NS Plan U DE-III (DJNekkid) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/2300#change-6239 19:16:33 <Brot6> 2cc train set - Feature #2325 (Closed): Gautrain Electrostar (DJNekkid) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/2325#change-6242 19:16:36 <Brot6> 2cc train set - Feature #2329 (Closed): MPC ACh2 (DJNekkid) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/2329#change-6244 19:16:39 <Brot6> 2cc train set - Feature #2334 (Closed): NS 8200 DD-IRM (DJNekkid) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/2334#change-6245 19:16:42 <Brot6> 2cc train set - Feature #2335 (Closed): NS 20 'Kameel' (DJNekkid) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/2335#change-6246 19:17:51 <Brot6> 2cc train set - Feature #2221 (Closed): Taipei C301 (DJNekkid) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/2221#change-6248 19:17:51 <Brot6> 2cc train set - Feature #2220 (Closed): 81-717.5M (DJNekkid) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/2220#change-6247 19:17:51 <Brot6> 2cc train set - Feature #2223 (Closed): NOLB 1 (DJNekkid) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/2223#change-6249 19:17:51 <Brot6> 2cc train set - Feature #2230 (Closed): FS 86 (DJNekkid) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/2230#change-6250 19:17:53 <Brot6> 2cc train set - Feature #2232 (Closed): DB VT04 (DJNekkid) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/2232#change-6251 19:20:29 <Brot6> 2cc train set - Feature #2207 (Closed): Regio Shuttle (DJNekkid) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/2207#change-6252 19:20:29 <Brot6> 2cc train set - Feature #2213 (Closed): NS DH1 (DJNekkid) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/2213#change-6255 19:20:29 <Brot6> 2cc train set - Feature #2208 (Closed): SNCF CC 40100 (DJNekkid) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/2208#change-6253 19:20:29 <Brot6> 2cc train set - Feature #2212 (Closed): ET171 (DJNekkid) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/2212#change-6254 19:20:32 <Brot6> 2cc train set - Feature #2217 (Closed): C8 (DJNekkid) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/2217#change-6257 19:20:35 <Brot6> 2cc train set - Feature #2214 (Closed): ETR 300 "Settebello" (DJNekkid) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/2214#change-6256 19:21:55 <Brot6> 2cc train set - Feature #2218: When should we release 2.0? (DJNekkid) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/2218#change-6258 19:22:32 <Brot6> CHIPS Station Set - Revision 72:5199f72de0e0: Feature: cargo graphics for Clay (closes #2441) (andythenorth) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/chips/repository/revisions/5199f72de0e0 19:22:32 <Brot6> CHIPS Station Set - Feature #2441 (Closed): Cargo graphics for Clay (andythenorth) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/2441#change-6259 19:28:04 <Brot6> 2cc train set - Bug #2228 (Feedback): r727 (DJNekkid) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/2228#change-6260 19:29:41 <Brot6> 2cc train set - Revision 747:d8110ef7eb00: Fix: QR 400. close #2417 (DJNekkid) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/2cctrainset/repository/revisions/d8110ef7eb00 19:29:41 <Brot6> 2cc train set - Revision 748:5d436b543e99: Fix: ET420 pantos. Close #2400 (DJNekkid) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/2cctrainset/repository/revisions/5d436b543e99 19:29:41 <Brot6> 2cc train set - Bug #2417 (Closed): QR 400 fix (DJNekkid) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/2417#change-6261 19:29:41 <Brot6> 2cc train set - Bug #2400 (Closed): DB 420 (ET420) has no pantographs (DJNekkid) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/2400#change-6262 19:32:20 <Brot6> 2cc train set - Revision 749:b4d60b10d5b2: Fix: close #2215 (flashing lights) (DJNekkid) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/2cctrainset/repository/revisions/b4d60b10d5b2 19:32:20 <Brot6> 2cc train set - Bug #2215 (Closed): CR Class 439: Animated pixels in / view (DJNekkid) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/2215#change-6263 19:40:24 <Brot6> CHIPS Station Set - Bug #2434 (Closed): Multiple instances of warning 209 (andythenorth) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/2434#change-6264 19:47:21 <Ammler> spamers :-P 19:56:26 *** andythenorth has quit IRC 19:57:08 *** andythenorth has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 20:03:46 <Brot6> 2cc train set - Feature #2213 (Closed): NS DH1 (DJNekkid) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/2213#change-6255 20:03:46 <Brot6> CHIPS Station Set - Revision 73:ebed951e4d82: Feature: cargo graphics for Coal (#2438) (andythenorth) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/chips/repository/revisions/ebed951e4d82 20:07:30 <DJNekkid> can someone remind me again, why is it called a 'nightly' when its done on an early eavening? 20:07:54 <DJNekkid> Ammler: Brot6 should be kicked :P 20:07:58 <Ammler> so you can fix the build bugs nightly 20:08:21 <DJNekkid> but, i sleep at night :P 20:08:30 <Lakie> Well, night is relative to location 20:08:32 <Lakie> :p 20:08:39 <DJNekkid> and usually do my work after the 'nightly' is produced 20:08:50 <Ammler> hmm, shall we rename it to eveningly? 20:08:59 <DJNekkid> Lakie: sure, but most of us live in Europe :) 20:09:02 <Rubidium> DJNekkid: so that's right, normally you start working after the night ;) 20:09:15 <DJNekkid> Rubidium: normally i start working after work :) 20:09:32 <DJNekkid> and some surfing, and dinner 20:10:00 <DJNekkid> i.e. aprox 18ish CET 20:10:13 <Lakie> What time are the compiled GMT? 20:10:23 <DJNekkid> 17:17 iirc 20:10:27 <Ammler> when would you like to let your nightly build? 20:10:35 <Lakie> Thats like just about the evening 20:10:59 <Lakie> Dunno, probably 0/1 gmt? 20:11:03 * Lakie flees 20:11:18 <DJNekkid> personally i think something like 9pm / 21:00 20:11:21 <DJNekkid> or something like that 20:11:37 <DJNekkid> now i do not know how the other people here 'work' 20:12:12 <DJNekkid> but as i assume that most of us have 'day jobs', and work something like +-8 hrs between 0700 and 1700 sometime 20:12:40 <Ammler> yes, so the nightly is ready when you start working on it 20:13:05 <DJNekkid> then i also assume that most of us come home, eat dinner, watch some TV, surf some internet, check mails and things, and then do some codeing 20:13:21 <DJNekkid> but it takes nearly 24hrs until its built for the community 20:13:23 <Brot6> CHIPS Station Set - Feature #2438 (Closed): Cargo graphics for Coal (andythenorth) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/2438#change-6265 20:14:22 <Ammler> change it to build on push 20:14:27 <Ammler> I told that around 1000 times 20:14:32 <Rubidium> no, there'd be almost 24 hours for the leet users to find critical bugs 20:15:40 * andythenorth will lay down money that most of the critical bugs are missing files 20:15:42 <andythenorth> :P 20:15:44 <Ammler> yes, the idea is that you have time after the nightly is build 20:15:44 <DJNekkid> Rubidium: i'm not sure if you concider that a 'pro' or a 'con', but in my head is it a 'pro' 20:16:03 * andythenorth is happy with the current setup 20:16:09 <andythenorth> why change it? 20:16:14 <andythenorth> work on something else instead :) 20:17:20 <DJNekkid> but i guess i could change it to 'build on push', unless that is processorheavy on the serverside or something 20:17:38 <Ammler> well, I don't hink so 20:17:57 <DJNekkid> my server-computer builds the 2cc set in about 7 seconds 20:18:01 <DJNekkid> including a 'mr proper' 20:18:03 <Ammler> DevZone2 will do that for every project 20:18:30 <Ammler> well, we setup a whole fresh chroot to build 20:18:41 <Ammler> so it takes around 2mins 20:19:02 <Rubidium> still, doubtful you'll push every two minutes 20:19:32 <DJNekkid> usually no := 20:19:41 <DJNekkid> :) 20:20:11 <Rubidium> with OpenTTD and its 35-ish minute compile cycle it's somewhat different ;) 20:20:24 <DJNekkid> indeed 20:20:49 <DJNekkid> btw, how fast do you compile it yourself? 20:21:38 <Rubidium> depends on the amount of changes, compiler settings and such 20:21:50 <Ammler> 2011-02-10 17:17:10+00:00: start building... 20:22:01 <Ammler> 2011-02-10 17:18:32+00:00: end building... 20:22:12 <Ammler> (including setup of the chroot) 20:22:25 <DJNekkid> that was the 2cc set, or openttd? 20:22:32 <Rubidium> and very much how hot the cache is 20:22:46 <Rubidium> so it can be between a second and a minute or so 20:23:17 <DJNekkid> okidoki :D 20:23:43 <Ammler> that is 2cc 20:23:55 <DJNekkid> however, to enable build on push, i assume i just add a dir called 'push' in .devzone, with a file 'enable' within that dir? 20:24:25 *** ODM has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 20:24:50 <Brot6> CHIPS Station Set - Revision 74:ccc224aee2c8: Feature: cargo graphics for Iron Ore (closes #2439) (andythenorth) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/chips/repository/revisions/ccc224aee2c8 20:24:50 <Brot6> CHIPS Station Set - Feature #2439 (Closed): Cargo graphics for Iron Ore (andythenorth) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/2439#change-6266 20:25:07 <Ammler> openttd needs around 4 mins with 1 core 20:25:38 <Ammler> DJNekkid: yes 20:26:48 <Brot6> 2cc train set - Revision 750:78a6dae42514: Add: Build-on-push (DJNekkid) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/2cctrainset/repository/revisions/78a6dae42514 20:28:14 <DJNekkid> that should do? :) 20:28:25 <Ammler> yes, I guess so 20:28:27 * andythenorth ponders a CHIPS release 20:28:27 <Brot6> 2cctrainset: update from to r750 done (6 errors) - http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/2cctrainset/push/r750 20:28:33 <DJNekkid> lol, apparently 20:28:41 <Ammler> 2 mins 20:28:53 <andythenorth> the CHIPS graphics suck 20:29:02 <andythenorth> but a release might show how much players care :P 20:29:04 <Brot6> 2cc train set - Bug #2444 (New): DevZone compile failed (compiler) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/2444 20:29:55 <Brot6> CHIPS Station Set - Feature #2433 (Closed): Improve appearance of clay / quarry tiles (andythenorth) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/2433#change-6267 20:30:06 <Ammler> oh, I should fix that 20:30:14 <Ammler> well, ignore it for now :-P 20:30:48 * DJNekkid is happy ignoreing that ! 20:31:19 <Ammler> (the release error, push release is fine) 20:31:54 <Ammler> and now, fix those 6 errors ;-) 20:33:27 <DJNekkid> it is merely 3 warnings, not 6 errors :) 20:33:34 <DJNekkid> as one of them goes over 3 lines :P 20:34:17 * Lakie ponders if he should write a system so his lang.py takes in include files (like ids.pnfo) read the defines and try and match them up with tags like veh_<name> vid_<name> etc. 20:35:10 <Lakie> Or just leave tags in the outputed nfo, like VID_<name> for the including pnfo's to define for me. hmm. 20:35:57 <DJNekkid> Btw, have anyone tried CitiesXL2011 ? 20:36:35 <Lakie> 'fraid not 20:37:57 <Brot6> CHIPS Station Set - Revision 75:7274a4ae9971: Change: update changelog preparatory to 0.3 release (andythenorth) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/chips/repository/revisions/7274a4ae9971 20:38:02 <DJNekkid> It seems to suffer from what i think just about every city-builder i've tried suffer from... 20:38:09 <DJNekkid> lack of good transport simulation 20:39:18 <DJNekkid> In a city of 60k with about 10k working in a 'dirty industry' abit away. a '3x3' express way should be able to cope with that imho 20:39:52 <Brot6> CHIPS Station Set - Revision 76:00997b011591: Added tag 0.3 for changeset 7274a4ae9971 (andythenorth) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/chips/repository/revisions/00997b011591 20:40:01 <Ammler> Lakie: maybe you can also contribute to the Makefile Framework, as made quite a bad job there ;-) 20:40:03 <Ammler> me* 20:40:17 <Brot6> chips: update from 0.2 to 0.3 done - http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/chips/releases/0.3 20:40:45 <DJNekkid> anyway, im off to sort out my traffic problems :) 20:40:46 <Lakie> Yeah sorry about that, I obviously wasn't too clear when explaining it to planetmaker a while back. :( 20:42:35 <Lakie> bbiab 21:04:56 *** andythenorth has left #openttdcoop.devzone 21:32:35 <planetmaker> hm? What's the issue, Lakie ? 21:35:23 <Brot6> Example NewGRF Project - Bug #2435: DevZone compile failed (planetmaker) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/2435#change-6268 21:41:51 *** frosch123 has quit IRC 21:51:06 <Lakie> this one planetmaker, http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/newgrf-makefile/repository/revisions/4e5566aaaf3b 21:51:36 <Lakie> About removing the nfo header stuff from the sprites/nfo/header.pnfo also 21:51:58 <planetmaker> yes, I guess that needs doing 21:52:11 <planetmaker> I didn't find time so far and today :-) 21:52:28 <Lakie> Thats alright, I understand lots of people are pretty busy 21:52:45 <Lakie> I m,eant it was bad that I didn't explain it at the time as a needed change. :( 21:53:08 <planetmaker> well. Don't worry. Just as well also my fault. I should have tested it 21:54:13 <Lakie> Yeah, think I might take a break from my finish set for a while, kept getting in knots on how best to handle tags around vehicles. 21:56:44 <planetmaker> but you fixed it locally, did you? 21:57:18 <Lakie> Well, not the makefile system, but since the chances are based off what I did to the finnish set, I guess? 21:58:07 <Lakie> Shouldn't be too hard for me to fix in the makefile repo, might have to rework the text in mygrf.pnfo though as its technically no longer accurate 22:00:25 <Lakie> planetmaker: is it possible to grab the revison of a file in a repo? 22:00:41 <Lakie> Well, last revision altered 22:00:55 <planetmaker> how do you mean? 22:01:32 <Lakie> Well, for my lang script I was going to have it print out the last revision it was modified as a version, since it won't have its own repo and such 22:01:56 <planetmaker> ah, you want the revision a file was last modified? 22:02:02 <Lakie> Yeah 22:02:29 <planetmaker> there's a solution, we already have it in the FIRS language check script. But maybe there's an easier one 22:03:53 <planetmaker> hg log config.lib --template='{rev}\n' | head -n1 22:04:01 <planetmaker> where config.lib is your filename 22:04:14 <Lakie> Ok, thanks. :) 22:05:32 <planetmaker> welcome :-) 22:07:54 <Lakie> Be interesting to see how all this goes, its surprisingly difficault to devise systems which need 'extra' information. 22:08:16 <planetmaker> :-) 22:09:33 <Lakie> I don't think it'll be all that useful to others though, as it'll likely only support bits I need and work to how I think. :( 22:11:21 <Lakie> And the bad code from me, heh, had it in an infinite loop yesterday because of a typo... 22:12:00 <Ammler> planetmaker: hg log -f -l1 <file> 22:12:20 <Lakie> Would make rebuild the grf if I altered a script in the rules section or would it just ignore the changes? 22:12:21 <Ammler> (instead " | head -n1") 22:12:22 <planetmaker> he, even shorter :-) 22:12:43 <Ammler> maybe also faster 22:13:07 <Ammler> hmm, -f might not be needed 22:13:47 <planetmaker> Lakie: I'm not sure. If not it can be taught to do so: let the target file also depend on the script file 22:14:44 <Lakie> Maybe, but I thinking that if I keep trying to extend the script file with bits not affecting the grf, then it wouldn't be needed to rebuild the grf, but I can see why it might be needed sometimes 22:16:46 <Lakie> We'll see, no doubt people would likely rewrite the badly wrote python anyways. >_> 22:17:24 <planetmaker> well, any change to the script potentially changes the grf, so a re-build is in order then. 22:17:49 <planetmaker> The same (no need for a rebuild) also holds true for certain source code changes of the grf (like adding a comment). Still it'll get re-build 22:18:29 <Lakie> Fair enough, seems a little overkill for just adding a comment, heh 22:18:54 <Lakie> But I guess theres no way to tell until its compiled wether it alters the grf or not? 22:19:04 <planetmaker> of course it is. But... file modified -> things which depend on it get rebuild 22:19:10 <planetmaker> indeed, yes 22:20:15 <Ammler> in most cases the grf changes because the revision is part of the grf title :-) 22:20:28 <Lakie> Heh, true 22:21:20 <Ammler> that is why for excample the obs complains if you add date to a binary 22:21:39 <Ammler> like openttd does add building date 22:25:03 <planetmaker> uhm, does openttd? 22:26:15 <Ammler> yes, well. No real issue since openttd is a "End Product" :-) 22:26:33 <Ammler> it doesn't trigger other packages to rebuild, if it changes 22:26:59 <Ammler> it would be bad, if grfcodec would have such a thing 22:27:46 <Ammler> according to 5matZ/Rubi, it is helpful for the error report 22:30:51 <Lakie> Heh, well, 'night 22:31:57 *** Lakie has quit IRC 22:32:06 <Ammler> if you find a way, how to determine the revision, which _really_ changed the grf, you should tell :-) 22:33:11 <Ammler> I guess, you would need to forbid revision/date in the grf and then make md5sum comparing... 22:37:21 <planetmaker> but when you did the latter... you already built the grf ;-) 22:38:02 <planetmaker> I mean... you could even add a nearly pointless ActionC - and that'd change the md5sum even 22:38:03 <Ammler> yes, well it would help to determine, if publishing is needed and triggering rebuild 22:38:42 <Ammler> ActionC is valid 22:39:03 <Ammler> but we do sometimes simple config changes 22:39:08 <Ammler> or docs 22:39:35 <Ammler> or andy is uploading a psd 22:39:41 <planetmaker> :-) 22:40:06 <planetmaker> but that's all IMHO no issue. Changing the revision is fine enough. It's another source 22:40:33 <Ammler> yes, that is a good reason to make it valid :-) 22:42:53 <planetmaker> well. OpenTTD does exactly the same: the revision changes when I edit the readme. And the same happens with many other projects 22:45:02 <Ammler> planetmaker: that is a valid change too 22:45:14 <Ammler> but openttd binary changes also if I build it again 22:45:17 <Ammler> the same version 22:45:22 <planetmaker> code refactoring not? 22:45:32 <Ammler> no change 22:45:37 <planetmaker> hm... 22:45:40 <Ammler> just a rebuild 22:48:17 <Ammler> so openttd does itself what it forbids newgrfs/ais to do ;-) 22:49:10 <Ammler> but just to remember, it isn't a real harm, since openttd is not required by any other software 22:50:34 <Yexo> what does openttd forbid newgrf/ais to do? 22:50:47 <Ammler> changing md5sum on same version 22:51:16 <Yexo> for Ais it's no problem as long as min_compatible-version is set correctly 22:51:27 <Yexo> for newgrfs is for the same reason only a problem for multiplayer games 22:51:54 <Ammler> maybe that changed since Action14 then? 22:52:22 <Yexo> not for multiplayer games, but for singleplayer games a newer version can be loaded just fine as long as min_compatible_version in action14 is set correctly 22:52:33 <Ammler> Yexo: "same" 22:53:20 <Ammler> the only difference is another md5sum because of say build date in the description 22:53:31 <Yexo> grf version A, min_compatible_version B (B <= A), grfsum C. Now recompile the grf, grfsum is now D. OpenTTD will still load savegames saved with version C when you only have D available 22:55:11 <Ammler> then? 22:56:01 <Ammler> I am not sure, did you confirm or disagree :-) 22:56:34 <Yexo> what was there to agree/disagree with? 22:56:39 <Yexo> I was just stating how openttd works 22:56:55 <Ammler> well, forbids might be wrong word 22:57:33 <Ammler> openttd needs same md5sum for same version 22:58:03 <Ammler> (which is fine) 22:59:14 <Ammler> we had such troubles in the beginning of opengfx before we introduced the md5sum checks 22:59:19 <Yexo> that is not true, openttd needs the same md5sum for multiplayer games (same md5sum implies same version), for singleplayer games it only requires a compatible version 23:00:01 *** ODM has quit IRC 23:00:03 <Ammler> Yexo: afaik also bananas requires it to determine if the version you have is the same as the newesest available 23:00:22 <Yexo> true 23:00:38 <Yexo> but then mixing bananas content with self-build content is not a good idea 23:00:44 <Ammler> yep 23:01:07 <Ammler> well, as said, it is fine, we build the grfs that way :-P 23:01:16 <Ammler> openttd does not build that way ;-) 23:02:13 <Ammler> but that is fine too, since it does not trigger other software 23:15:29 *** PeterT has quit IRC 23:16:03 *** PeterT has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 23:20:23 <planetmaker> feels like late enough for 'good night' :-)